...
Not sure how or why you're attacking KDF players when referring to turrets and cannon abilities...
I'm not attacking. Where you got this from?
I was just refering that every other ship has more options to create a viable than starfleet cruisers.
This has nothing to do with attacking thos players, if you think that every argument is a attack, then we should stop talking.
I want you to understand that even cruiser pilots should have to actually fly there ships, not just click on a target and immediately get all weapons firing on it.
You mean like everyone else does? lol.
have you ever heard of broadsiding?
All Cruisers can get all weapons pointed at their target, thats the oldest story in the book.
My suggestion would be a variant of that tactic. It would basicly lower the beam weapons damage a bit but enhance the fireing arc and thus give players more options.
It would allow Starfleet Cruisers to maneuver differently and use their torpedoes (just like all other factions cruisers can do by using cannon builds).
Here are the differences:
One: it wouldn't look so silly anymore (like beams + turrets, as you suggest)
Two: Omni BEAMS would actually be buffed by beam weapon abilites. (a little, because FAW will be nerfed, which is ok IMO)
Three: DMG would be even a bit lower, compared to Broadsiding. (here's your drawback )
Four: It would allow to use torpedoes. (yes, exactly like any other ship in the game.)
What stays the same:
Attack patterns buff all weapons, no change compared to a Beams + turrets setup.
Beam Overload fireing in every direction, it only needs only one single Omni beam.
The only thing i want to understand what your real argument against my suggestion is, because i haven't heard any from you.
The only thing you say is basicly that you don't like it.
They have bad turn rates because they are bigger, they are bigger so they have more weapons, they have more weapons because they can't have all of them shooting the same thing at the same time because some of them are on the opposite side of said bigger ship.
Thats nonsense (no offense), but starfleet cruisers in STO can equip exactly the same amount of weapons like other factions cruisers. (all weapons, except the strongest ones of course :rolleyes:) So much for more weapons...
Lol, Klingons and Romulans have some of the biggest ships in the game which are (wonder) actually CAN fire forwards.
Sure Starfleet Crusiers could use single cannons, now tell me why does nobody use them again?
Why can't starfleet Cruisers use DHCs again and why can't they get anything of equal worth?
I'm not suggesting they should get something just as powerful as DHCs or DCs, but some kind of weapons that would make Starfleet Crusiers stand out and make them unique AND make them more like they where in the shows. (yes, STO is still a Star Trek game)
I'm refering to their big forward weapons arc and their decent all round coverage. if you didn't know Starfleet ships DID NOT do exclusively broadsides, that's something cryptic came up with. I simply want a viable alternative nothing more.
Now please give some good reasons why Starfleet ships shouldn't be able do what all other cruisers can, or why they shouldn't at least get something typical on their own.
Seriously i simply don't understand the problem you see in this matter.
(If you are you worried that a combined (4) Beam Array + (4) Onmi Beam (Beam Boat for ex.) would deliver more Damage than 8 Beam Arrays (todays Beam Boat), then i cannot help you.)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I don't like broadsiding much but I simply avoid Cruisers :P
3 beams for anything 7-12 is a little off...I mean there isn't a Fed cruiser above 9 turn? So any Cruiser can have 3 Omni beams and for the 4th slot just put in a KCB.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
More omnis is a rabbit hole, best not to go down it. One is fun, two would open the door to 3 and 3 would be OP, without a doubt.
You know it occurred to me you can get 3 Omni Beams on a ship.
First you need to use Antiproton, next Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam, Followed by the Omni Directional Antiproton beam array from the Solance missions and finally craft or buy a final Omni Array from the new R&D System.
I want Omni Directional Arrays to work like turrets that can use Fire at Will. I don't think they should use Beam Overload, but chances are your going to want one of the Dual Beam Banks in the front to do that.
I think the ability to put Multiple Omni Beam Arrays on Escorts would also allow those of us who want to, the ability to fly a Starfleet Escort and have it look like the shows. The Defiant of course being the exception, because in the show it had the quad cannons.
Also Yreodred, Everytime somebody mentions the Orion FDC in any thread Feds start asking for their version of it. I didn't even know that the the Dreadnought Cruiser had been upgraded with a Hanger bay.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
3 beams for anything 7-12 is a little off...I mean there isn't a Fed cruiser above 9 turn? So any Cruiser can have 3 Omni beams and for the 4th slot just put in a KCB.
Of course that was just an idea, it could be done somehow different too.
Maybe simply allow every Starfleet Cruiser (not Battlecruiser!) to equip 2-3 Omni Beams at max in their rear weapon slots. The lowest turning ones get 3 and faster ones (turnrate 9+) get 2.
My suggestion at the opening post was just a WIP of course.
You know it occurred to me you can get 3 Omni Beams on a ship.
First you need to use Antiproton, next Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam, Followed by the Omni Directional Antiproton beam array from the Solance missions and finally craft or buy a final Omni Array from the new R&D System.
I want Omni Directional Arrays to work like turrets that can use Fire at Will. I don't think they should use Beam Overload, but chances are your going to want one of the Dual Beam Banks in the front to do that.
Yeah, i almost forgot that you can rainbow them anyway.
(But rainbow-ing is one of the best things to do if you want a gimped build, lol.)
Why shouldn't they be able to Beam Overload?
One Omni BA alone can to a 360° Beam Overload you don't need several of them for this.
I think the main problem would be excessive use of FAW, but since this is going to be nerfed...
The only real change would be that Starfleet cruisers wouldn't have to broadside anymore. It would give players to choice to broadside or not. (Every other ship gives you that choice, only Starfleet cruisers don't)
But atm you're stuck at broadsiding and/or spam FAW all the time. Not very thrilling or exciting tbh and not even something uniqe.
My point is that Starfleet Cruisers simply feel too generic, they have nothing every other ship has too. giving them additional omnis WOULD be something unique (and it wouldn't be OP IMO).
I think the ability to put Multiple Omni Beam Arrays on Escorts would also allow those of us who want to, the ability to fly a Starfleet Escort and have it look like the shows. The Defiant of course being the exception, because in the show it had the quad cannons.
I wouldn't like the idea of putting multiple Omnis on a Escort TBH.
I can't remember the defiant using multiple Beam Arrays at all. Afaik it had a single one, but multiple?.. i got to check that.
Anyway, why should a escort player need several omnis in the rear weapons slot in the first place?
It's not like Escorts wouldn't already have every possible advantage the devs came up with, lol.
Don't get me wrong, but i simply can't understand that subliminal "hate" against Starfleet cruisers some ppl show here.
I mean these are the ships most pple love in Trek, why should they be the most boring ships in the game?
It's almost like some ppl think that only noobs and beginners would fly them and every "expert" or "pro" player stands above that...
(If that's right, would find that pretty arogant TBH. But i hope i'm wrong with this.)
Also Yreodred, Everytime somebody mentions the Orion FDC in any thread Feds start asking for their version of it. I didn't even know that the the Dreadnought Cruiser had been upgraded with a Hanger bay.
To be honest, i never understood the "need" for a carrier ship in a Star trek game.
IDK what's supposed to be so great about them and what so awesome about that orion ship anyway.
Personyally i couldn't care less about Carriers, for all I care they can get 5 uni CMDR stations a 15 weapon slots front/rear, i wouldn't fly one.
Sorry for ripping apart your posts, i hope you both don't mind.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
From this post, this post, and finally this post. You aren't even attempting to hide your Feddie-bear bias against the other factions getting something of their own. Albeit roms have too much in their court, but that's not really the purview or this discussion.
You mean like everyone else does? lol.
have you ever heard of broadsiding?
All Cruisers can get all weapons pointed at their target, thats the oldest story in the book.
My suggestion would be a variant of that tactic. It would basicly lower the beam weapons damage a bit but enhance the fireing arc and thus give players more options.
It would allow Starfleet Cruisers to maneuver differently and use their torpedoes (just like all other factions cruisers can do by using cannon builds).
No I've never heard of broadsiding, but I was somehow talking about it here and here. Broadsiding at least makes the cruiser pilot do some sort of flying. Making beams have even bigger firing arcs would reduce this need to actually be able to fly a ship smartly even more, so the added option would be better DPS while zombie-cruiser-ing about? Speaking of not hearing about things, here's the torpedo I mentioned earlier that you can still aimlessly use while broadsiding a target. So there's another option for you.
Here are the differences:
One: it wouldn't look so silly anymore (like beams + turrets, as you suggest)
Two: Omni BEAMS would actually be buffed by beam weapon abilites. (a little, because FAW will be nerfed, which is ok IMO)
Three: DMG would be even a bit lower, compared to Broadsiding. (here's your drawback )
Four: It would allow to use torpedoes. (yes, exactly like any other ship in the game.)
One: You really want to change mechanics because of looks? Great, cryptic probably loves you.
Two: Figured you were upset turrets couldn't be used with the precious FAW, see here.
Three: As it should be.
Four: Wide Angle Quantum Torpedo Launcher
The only thing i want to understand what your real argument against my suggestion is, because i haven't heard any from you.
The only thing you say is basicly that you don't like it.
Thats nonsense (no offense), but starfleet cruisers in STO can equip exactly the same amount of weapons like other factions cruisers. (all weapons, except the strongest ones of course :rolleyes:) So much for more weapons...
Lol, Klingons and Romulans have some of the biggest ships in the game which are (wonder) actually CAN fire forwards.
It's simple, no ship should be able to load that many 360 degree firing weapons. We are already slowly getting to that point with the omni choices and KCB. One of the last marks of skill left in the spacebar-mashing pve world is ship piloting, and what you want to do would detract from that even more. Players who can actually fly their ships to take advantage of ANY weapons they choose to use should do better than those who can't fly them. In other words, figure out how to use the ships with bad turn rate and more weapons, or go fly something else. Cryptic shouldn't change game mechanics because you really like starfleet cruisers and want them to be able to do everything all the other faction ships can. The KDF is in shambles right now due to Cryptic's decisions, and pve heroes kicking them while they're down is partly why the die-hard KDF players hate feddie-bears so much.
Sure Starfleet Crusiers could use single cannons, now tell me why does nobody use them again?
Why can't starfleet Cruisers use DHCs again and why can't they get anything of equal worth?
Barely anyone uses them because we live in an age of STO where max DPS is everything in carebear (pve) land. No one is saying you can't, or shouldn't. By all means go ahead and try. Starfleet cruisers can't use DHCs because in the beginning, you were supposed to select a ship class based on what style of gameplay you wanted. Over the years differences between the classes of ships have become very diluted, and it has lead to cruiser pilots like yourself wondering why they don't just have everything. Also, please look at this ship, and this ship. Once again though, your response will probably be "why can't I do everything on everything because DS9/First Contact/some other canon reference/the evul klinks can."
I'm not suggesting they should get something just as powerful as DHCs or DCs, but some kind of weapons that would make Starfleet Crusiers stand out and make them unique AND make them more like they where in the shows. (yes, STO is still a Star Trek game)
I'm refering to their big forward weapons arc and their decent all round coverage. if you didn't know Starfleet ships DID NOT do exclusively broadsides, that's something cryptic came up with.
I'm not taking any reference to canon as a serious argument when the original weapon in question, (omni-directional beam array), is something that never existed in canon.
Now please give some good reasons why Starfleet ships shouldn't be able do what all other cruisers can, or why they shouldn't at least get something typical on their own.
Seriously i simply don't understand the problem you see in this matter.
By now you should, if not, read everything above again.
(If you are you worried that a combined (4) Beam Array + (4) Onmi Beam (Beam Boat for ex.) would deliver more Damage than 8 Beam Arrays (todays Beam Boat), then i cannot help you.)
Not afraid at all, I know from experience that broadsiding with 8 beam arrays will deliver the most damage. What I am most concerned about, as stated before, is removing the need for cruiser pilots to actually be half-decent pilots. Adding this on top of what A2B has done to the cruiser pilot community, and we'll have an even bigger portion of the player base that can't actually do anything for themselves in this game anymore.
Yeah, i almost forgot that you can rainbow them anyway.
(But rainbow-ing is one of the best things to do if you want a gimped build, lol.)
2 of those Omni Beams are Antiproton and the Borg Kinetic Beam is usually used with Assimilated Module for the 2P bonus. I also thought it got a benefit from Antiproton consoles, I was wrong on that one.
Why shouldn't they be able to Beam Overload?
One Omni BA alone can to a 360° Beam Overload you don't need several of them for this.
I think the main problem would be excessive use of FAW, but since this is going to be nerfed...
I think most would prefer it not to, Personally I'd love to be able to set a specific Weapon as the only one Beam Overload effects.
The only real change would be that Starfleet cruisers wouldn't have to broadside anymore. It would give players to choice to broadside or not. (Every other ship gives you that choice, only Starfleet cruisers don't)
But atm you're stuck at broadsiding and/or spam FAW all the time. Not very thrilling or exciting tbh and not even something uniqe.
My point is that Starfleet Cruisers simply feel too generic, they have nothing every other ship has too. giving them additional omnis WOULD be something unique (and it wouldn't be OP IMO).
Your sort of falling into your own argument here, Your implying Single Cannon and Turrets are not an option for Cruisers, that's not a Broadside build. You also can't use a Dual Beam Bank and Turrets build. while the turrets don''t benefit from your Beam enhancements if your using Beam Overload rather than Fire at Will you can only power up one beam, and your not using Fire at Will because your not making a Broadsider. It seems your saying without multiple Omni's your limited to a Broadsider.
I wouldn't like the idea of putting multiple Omnis on a Escort TBH.
I can't remember the defiant using multiple Beam Arrays at all. Afaik it had a single one, but multiple?.. i got to check that.
Your right but you misunderstood me, I meant the Defiant with Cannons looks Canon, but the Promethius or Akira with Cannons doesn't look right they where beam boats in the show.
Anyway, why should a escort player need several omnis in the rear weapons slot in the first place?
It's not like Escorts wouldn't already have every possible advantage the devs came up with, lol.
Because it would look like the Escorts in the TV Show, while it would be a DPS hit I'm sure you could still do more than enough DPS for Elite Space.
To be honest, i never understood the "need" for a carrier ship in a Star trek game.
IDK what's supposed to be so great about them and what so awesome about that orion ship anyway.
Agreed, they just aren't very Trek. But they are here to stay so we have to deal with it.
Sorry for ripping apart your posts, i hope you both don't mind.
I don't mind you attacking my arguments, it's part of a healthy exchange of ideas. I also don't think your counter argument is as Iron Clad as this final shot would imply.
I don't think 8 Beam Arrays are OP, and by that Logic I don't think 8 Omni Beam Arrays are OP, don't they lose DPS for the [Arc] Modifier?
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
2 of those Omni Beams are Antiproton and the Borg Kinetic Beam is usually used with Assimilated Module for the 2P bonus. I also thought it got a benefit from Antiproton consoles, I was wrong on that one.
You can I can't follow you. What 2 antiproton omnis are you refering to?
Do you mean the one from the "Ancient Obelisk Technology Set" and a crafted one?
I thought you can only equip one at a time.
Your sort of falling into your own argument here, Your implying Single Cannon and Turrets are not an option for Cruisers, that's not a Broadside build. You also can't use a Dual Beam Bank and Turrets build. while the turrets don''t benefit from your Beam enhancements if your using Beam Overload rather than Fire at Will you can only power up one beam, and your not using Fire at Will because your not making a Broadsider. It seems your saying without multiple Omni's your limited to a Broadsider.
Hmm, my point was to give Starfleet Cruisers finally something in exchange for Dual Heavy Cannons.
I mean other factions "cruisers" and (most) lobi ship "cruisers" can equip DHCs. The only exception is the Risian Luxury Cruiser...
Maybe the devs wanted to imply that starfleet cruisers are not much more than Luxury Cruisers in their eyes? :mad:
I can understand that Starfleet Cruisers never where shown using DHCs (although the Prometheus and Akira wheren't show unsing them too, btw.), and i'm ok with this. But they should get something in exchange and i am not talking about some boring comm array power that lets NPCs shoot at you.
(What a stupid concept in the first place IMO. Escorts&Sci Ships can take care for themselves, as it should be.)
So instead of giving Starfleet Cruisers some weapon kind of system that resembles their "real" counterpart, the devs basicly made the exact opposite, lol.
Your right but you misunderstood me, I meant the Defiant with Cannons looks Canon, but the Promethius or Akira with Cannons doesn't look right they where beam boats in the show.
...
Because it would look like the Escorts in the TV Show, while it would be a DPS hit I'm sure you could still do more than enough DPS for Elite Space.
In "real" Trek the Prometheus never was such a nimble ship as in STO and i heavily doubt that it was even considered giving her cannons.
I think Cryptic should have made the Prometheus much more like they made Avenger much later. The same for the Akira, i think it should have been made a Excelsior-like Cruiser, instead of a Escort-Carrier (lol, what a combination).
Both ships where shown completely different in every appearance outside STO, i have no idea why cryptics devs made them like spacefighters. (i know about original idea of the Akira being a torpedo-carrier super awesomness ship. That designer had no idea about Star trek, lol)
I don't think 8 Beam Arrays are OP, and by that Logic I don't think 8 Omni Beam Arrays are OP, don't they lose DPS for the [Arc] Modifier?
I think so [arc] is a modifier like any other, in that case.
I wish they had given omni beams the same damage like turrets in the first place. Giving them higher damage and limiting them to only one just created more problems for players using beam arrays (but it's ok for DHC Escorts/Cruisers, well it's no surprise...)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You can I can't follow you. What 2 antiproton omnis are you refering to?
Do you mean the one from the "Ancient Obelisk Technology Set" and a crafted one?
I thought you can only equip one at a time.
I'm pretty sure you can, but I don't know 100%, you can use the Kinetic Cutting Beam and the Ancient Obelisk Beam together and they are limited to 1 per ship.
In "real" Trek the Prometheus never was such a nimble ship as in STO and i heavily doubt that it was even considered giving her cannons.
I think Cryptic should have made the Prometheus much more like they made Avenger much later. The same for the Akira, i think it should have been made a Excelsior-like Cruiser, instead of a Escort-Carrier (lol, what a combination).
Both ships where shown completely different in every appearance outside STO, i have no idea why cryptics devs made them like spacefighters. (i know about original idea of the Akira being a torpedo-carrier super awesomness ship. That designer had no idea about Star trek, lol)
Yeah I always thought the Akira and Prometheus should have been Combat orientated Cruisers rather than Escorts. I really don't feel they should have tried for a trinity of tank/heals/dps in this game.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I'm pretty sure you can, but I don't know 100%, you can use the Kinetic Cutting Beam and the Ancient Obelisk Beam together and they are limited to 1 per ship.
Yeah I always thought the Akira and Prometheus should have been Combat orientated Cruisers rather than Escorts. I really don't feel they should have tried for a trinity of tank/heals/dps in this game.
Would it be too late to change that now? Who am I kidding of course it is, cryptic isn't going to want to change it, that would mean giving a full refund, and I don't think that's allowed by the rules of acquisition
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Being a Fed in an Escort myself,... the Fed's have enough perks and advantages just from being Feds,...
Either allow multiple Omni beams on ALL ships from ALL factions, or leave it at one per ship. I know one per ship has changed the layout and loadout of all of my ships to almost exactly what I wanted them to be but had to work around for lack of a 360 beam before.
Besides, if you really watch the ships on the various shows in action, especially the Enterprise D, most of their beams while not technically, are effectively 360 degrees anyway.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Personally seeing as starfleet cruisers are all suppose to use beams and they are suppose to be good about covering every firing angle, its easier to simply give all starfleet cruisers and possible the bigger science vessels a arc bonus for their ships. 270 for beam arrays so add say a bonus arc of 60 to the vessels and you have near full coverage from the beam arrays. You wouldn't have to broadside but would have to keep your ship at a certain angle to get your rear beams and front beams to all line up and fire. You'd be able to do something very unique on Starfleet cruisers at the very least.
Being a Fed in an Escort myself,... the Fed's have enough perks and advantages just from being Feds,...
Either allow multiple Omni beams on ALL ships from ALL factions, or leave it at one per ship. I know one per ship has changed the layout and loadout of all of my ships to almost exactly what I wanted them to be but had to work around for lack of a 360 beam before.
Besides, if you really watch the ships on the various shows in action, especially the Enterprise D, most of their beams while not technically, are effectively 360 degrees anyway.
The only real perk the Federation ships have over other factions is more different skins to choose from. More isn't always better sometimes its just more.
Either allow multiple Omni beams on ALL ships from ALL factions, or leave it at one per ship. I know one per ship has changed the layout and loadout of all of my ships to almost exactly what I wanted them to be but had to work around for lack of a 360 beam before.
All other ships have one or several advantages over Starfleet Cruisers, while they rtaimain the most boring ships in the game.
They should finally get something apropriate and something that is actually useful at the same time.
To be honest, Escorts really don't need several omni beams. They can already turn like champions. Let Starfleet cruisers have something that make them stand out and make them interesting to play.
I can't get around the feeling that the more you are fan of "classy" star trek things (like Starfleet cruisers), the more you get punished in STO.
What if STO wheren't a Star Trek game at all? Let's think about it for a minute .
Who would seriously want to fly a cruiser?
I bet not even half the people flying Starfleet cruisers now would do it, because they give you the least options and almost force a player to broadside. Not only that, they are by design the most boring ships in the game (thanks Cryptic :rolleyes:).
Someone at Cryptics really must hate Star Trek series (except DS9 of course = no hero "crusier" but an escort...)
Compared to other factions "crusers", Starfleet Cruisers have no access to cloak (not that i would want one) and they are not allowed to equip the most heavy weapons (DHCs) and the second most heavy weapons (DCs) in the game. (and most of the time, Cryptics ship designs ships look awful IMO)
What they get is a tiny bit more hull in "exchange". But since hull is healed like nothing in STO, that "advantage" is almost not noticeable IMO.
Any now ppl. tell me they where powerful enough?
Compared to what? And please spare me with those 30k DPS ships.
They only work in a good team, but alone they would die in a minute if they get in the focus of a enemy ship. What those builds do is raise the statistics without being effective, they just blindfire at everything in range, every factions "cruiser" can do that and reach such high DPS numbers with the right equipment. It's nothing that's reserved for Starfleet Cruisers alone.
Seriously i don't understand this games "meta game" at all.
I don't understand some ppls positon either. It's not that 3 or 4 omni beams would make Starfleet Cruisers OP.
It would simply allow them to do something else besides broadsiding, it would make them more interesting/versatile AND it would make them a bit more like they where in the shows. But the most important thing is, it would make them at least a bit more fun to fly.
[sarcasm/on]
Maybe that's too much for some ppl to handle, popular ships that are actually fun to fly, impossible. lol.[sarcasm/off]
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I agree with the concept, but I would actually lower the OB allowance by 1 to the initial suggestion. Yes, that would mean ships with a turnrate of 13+ would only get one Omni, which would more than likely be the KCB. Don't Omni Beams do more damage than turrets?
I presume this would only apply to there base turnrate, correct? Because there are ways to make a cruiser turn quick
I agree with the concept, but I would actually lower the OB allowance by 1 to the initial suggestion. Yes, that would mean ships with a turnrate of 13+ would only get one Omni, which would more than likely be the KCB. Don't Omni Beams do more damage than turrets?
I presume this would only apply to there base turnrate, correct? Because there are ways to make a cruiser turn quick
Yes, it's base turnrate.
Of course the details are open for discussion, the original idea isn't set in stone.
Lowering the allowed Omis is perfectly alright, as long as it is within reason.
They do in fact do a littl emore dmg as turrets, that's why i think there should be some limit depending on the ships turnrate.
So big and heavier ships would finally get a little, tiny bit more firepower compared to light/faster ones. Those ships better use DBBs IMO.
(which is still a joke compared to DHCs + Turrets.)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You could already get 3 Omni-Directional Beam Arrays (if you're willing to use AP).
So it's for sure that you can equip Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array (from Ancient Obelisk Technology Set) AND a "regular" Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array ?
They are pretty expensive so i would like to know for sure that you can equip both weapons at the same time.
In game description is a bit vague about that.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
For some reason this thread won't die. As I said before, until the aux2bat problem is dealt with, it's a very very definite no to this. You see cruisers finishing STF in record times spamming FAW without the need for any more toys.
For some reason this thread won't die. As I said before, until the aux2bat problem is dealt with, it's a very very definite no to this. You see cruisers finishing STF in record times spamming FAW without the need for any more toys.
Not all cruiser spam FAW all the time, ruining STFs for everyone else.
And btw. Even if they could equip 4 omnis in their rear weapons slots it wouldn't make any difference dmg wise compared to a 8 beam FAW beamboat. Quite the contrary, Omnis do a little less dmg than ordinary Beam arrays.
Aux2Bat has nothing to do with that. If you can't stand cruisers in general then a Star Trek game is clearly the wrong game for you.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Personally I'd like to see more omni directional for all cruisers, and well battlecruisers as well. I mean it's silly that escorts and others can get 360 deg turrets but you can only have 1 360 array?
Tad silly however, I'd still keep it inline with the stepped damage as 360 weapons do less damage than arrays and arrays do less damage than DBB.
I don't see an issue with being able to mount more than one 360 array. No more difference than mounting a turret to me.
Now far as FAW and all that jazz that need to be reworked, that's another story.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Not all cruiser spam FAW all the time, ruining STFs for everyone else.
And btw. Even if they could equip 4 omnis in their rear weapons slots it wouldn't make any difference dmg wise compared to a 8 beam FAW beamboat. Quite the contrary, Omnis do a little less dmg than ordinary Beam arrays.
Aux2Bat has nothing to do with that. If you can't stand cruisers in general then a Star Trek game is clearly the wrong game for you.
The little less doesn't compensate for the fact that the cruiser can just fire away without worrying about turning. Basically, you throw all the game's turn rate debuffs into the garbage, not to mention the turn rate penalty cruisers have. Again, not a change you can put into the game without messing something else up.
The little less doesn't compensate for the fact that the cruiser can just fire away without worrying about turning. Basically, you throw all the game's turn rate debuffs into the garbage, not to mention the turn rate penalty cruisers have. Again, not a change you can put into the game without messing something else up.
FAW will be nerfed sooner or later, that's for sure.
The increased fireing arc would be a compensation for not being able to use DHCs.
Turn rate debuffs should first and foremost hurt nimble escorts, Crusiers are so slow compared to them, it doesn't really matter.
You may see it different, but every other ships got "toys" (like you say) in the first place. Starfleet Crusiers got nothing. They have to rely on weapons and tactics that are accessible to anyone.
What's the point of flying Starfleet cruisers in the first place?
(aside from sentimental reasons)
@shookyang
I just tested, you can only equip one omni-directional beam array, no matter if its the same energy weapon type or not.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
From what I understand, the omnidirectional AP array is the same type of AP array that can be crafted - just with a different mod set, that's all...
Therefore, you can go KCB + one other omni beam of any sorts already on every ship in the game...
And I can see the OP's point. If you define "cruiser" as 4x fore, 4x Aft weapon slots, with primarily engineering oriented BOff & Console seating - then let me point this out to you:
From the "Fed Standard", KDF gives up hull for maneuver, and a cruiser command for DHCs. Rommie gives up cruiser command for DHCs, and power for battlecloak...
You're gonna tell me, with a straight face, that whatever cruiser command it is (as I don't fly enough cruisers to know by heart) compensates for the extra damage available from DHCs?
So that tells me that we kinda-should come up with a better "trick" for Feddie cruisers. Now, I'll toss that the "official canon" loadout of a cruiser should be along the lines of 3x array 1x torp both fore and aft. With KCB and one omni array already slottable, and the canon torp in the tail, that would mean giving Feds +1 extra omni ([Arc]) array as their "trick" might not be as OP as the naysayers worry...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I give up, the OP is hell bent on wanting this change and seems to find every excuse to refute any opinion others have so here's my final post on this. There have been plenty of shared CD removals that have benefited engineers, and, if you wan't, you can all run aux2bat so you can just smash the spacebar and destroy everything around you in seconds. Also, the UR omni beams have to be limited to 1 because there are extra procs tied to them. Like I said, it also breaks the fact that cruisers get a turning penalty on purpose to balance them. No, you can not have a full set of omni beams, it won't happen, it's not fair.
I give up, the OP is hell bent on wanting this change and seems to find every excuse to refute any opinion others have so here's my final post on this. There have been plenty of shared CD removals that have benefited engineers, and, if you wan't, you can all run aux2bat so you can just smash the spacebar and destroy everything around you in seconds. Also, the UR omni beams have to be limited to 1 because there are extra procs tied to them. Like I said, it also breaks the fact that cruisers get a turning penalty on purpose to balance them. No, you can not have a full set of omni beams, it won't happen, it's not fair.
Yet it's fair to have cannon builds that can throw X number of cannons in the tail and cover full 360 AND have full firepower to the front?
Yeah somehow I do not find that fair.
Sorry just because a few Boff powers are out of whack does not mean cruisers should be hampered by it. Fix the BOFF issues then watch as cruisers suddenly lose 80% off their punch, where do you go from there?
Oh wait, allow them to equip omni's like cannon turrets. Who'd of thunk it?!
Divorce equipment from boffs before going off half cocked friend.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Yet it's fair to have cannon builds that can throw X number of cannons in the tail and cover full 360 AND have full firepower to the front?
Yeah somehow I do not find that fair.
Sorry just because a few Boff powers are out of whack does not mean cruisers should be hampered by it. Fix the BOFF issues then watch as cruisers suddenly lose 80% off their punch, where do you go from there?
Oh wait, allow them to equip omni's like cannon turrets. Who'd of thunk it?!
Divorce equipment from boffs before going off half cocked friend.
Turrets are really low damage weapons. It takes more skill to fly an escort with cannons than to fly a cruiser spewing FAW all over the place. Want to lolz even more on the cruiser? Bring up your part gens and spam FBP1.
I'll tell you why I want 4 Omni beams on my cruiser. Because I've never seen turrets on the back of any Hero ship in this franchise. STO should ben encouraging more canon, not less. I'd also like to see beams with the damage and limited firing arc of a DHC, too. I play this game go play Star Trek Online, not a random space adventure.
Turrets are really low damage weapons. It takes more skill to fly an escort with cannons than to fly a cruiser spewing FAW all over the place. Want to lolz even more on the cruiser? Bring up your part gens and spam FBP1.
Yes they do low damage, but combined with DHCs they are devestating.
4DHC+4turrets = more Damage than 4BA+4Omni.
Heck what if they would limit DBB or DHCs to only one per ship, idk how many escort players would react to this.
/sarcasm on
Yeah, of course only skilled players fly escorts, while all noobs fly cruisers. :rolleyes:
/sarcasm off
The problem is most ppl flying cruisers don't care about that. They simply want their ships to be on par. Blame Cryptic for introducing broken, OP and boring abilities, but not the players wanting a Star Trek experience instead of flying a Escort and play Star Wars.
Beam overload has been changed, just as FAW will be changed in forseeable time.
What is the thing everyone has suddenly against FBP?
It's a legitimate counter to OP escorts.
It sounds like everything that can be dangerous for a escort is automaticly OP.
No offense but i don't hear any word about Escorts being OP because they can tank like a Cruiser + getting a "get me out of here" ability (APO) being OP.
But as soon as someone makes a suggestion to make Starfleet Cruisers a bit fun to fly everybody jumps out of their escorts (and battlecruisers) and cry OP!! lol.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
We already have that.
->Turrets + DHCs = standard Escort/Battlecruiser
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
I was just refering that every other ship has more options to create a viable than starfleet cruisers.
This has nothing to do with attacking thos players, if you think that every argument is a attack, then we should stop talking.
You mean like everyone else does? lol.
have you ever heard of broadsiding?
All Cruisers can get all weapons pointed at their target, thats the oldest story in the book.
My suggestion would be a variant of that tactic. It would basicly lower the beam weapons damage a bit but enhance the fireing arc and thus give players more options.
It would allow Starfleet Cruisers to maneuver differently and use their torpedoes (just like all other factions cruisers can do by using cannon builds).
Here are the differences:
One: it wouldn't look so silly anymore (like beams + turrets, as you suggest)
Two: Omni BEAMS would actually be buffed by beam weapon abilites. (a little, because FAW will be nerfed, which is ok IMO)
Three: DMG would be even a bit lower, compared to Broadsiding. (here's your drawback
Four: It would allow to use torpedoes. (yes, exactly like any other ship in the game.)
What stays the same:
Attack patterns buff all weapons, no change compared to a Beams + turrets setup.
Beam Overload fireing in every direction, it only needs only one single Omni beam.
The only thing i want to understand what your real argument against my suggestion is, because i haven't heard any from you.
The only thing you say is basicly that you don't like it.
Thats nonsense (no offense), but starfleet cruisers in STO can equip exactly the same amount of weapons like other factions cruisers. (all weapons, except the strongest ones of course :rolleyes:) So much for more weapons...
Lol, Klingons and Romulans have some of the biggest ships in the game which are (wonder) actually CAN fire forwards.
Sure Starfleet Crusiers could use single cannons, now tell me why does nobody use them again?
Why can't starfleet Cruisers use DHCs again and why can't they get anything of equal worth?
I'm not suggesting they should get something just as powerful as DHCs or DCs, but some kind of weapons that would make Starfleet Crusiers stand out and make them unique AND make them more like they where in the shows. (yes, STO is still a Star Trek game)
I'm refering to their big forward weapons arc and their decent all round coverage. if you didn't know Starfleet ships DID NOT do exclusively broadsides, that's something cryptic came up with.
I simply want a viable alternative nothing more.
Now please give some good reasons why Starfleet ships shouldn't be able do what all other cruisers can, or why they shouldn't at least get something typical on their own.
Seriously i simply don't understand the problem you see in this matter.
(If you are you worried that a combined (4) Beam Array + (4) Onmi Beam (Beam Boat for ex.) would deliver more Damage than 8 Beam Arrays (todays Beam Boat), then i cannot help you.)
3 beams for anything 7-12 is a little off...I mean there isn't a Fed cruiser above 9 turn? So any Cruiser can have 3 Omni beams and for the 4th slot just put in a KCB.
You know it occurred to me you can get 3 Omni Beams on a ship.
First you need to use Antiproton, next Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam, Followed by the Omni Directional Antiproton beam array from the Solance missions and finally craft or buy a final Omni Array from the new R&D System.
I want Omni Directional Arrays to work like turrets that can use Fire at Will. I don't think they should use Beam Overload, but chances are your going to want one of the Dual Beam Banks in the front to do that.
I think the ability to put Multiple Omni Beam Arrays on Escorts would also allow those of us who want to, the ability to fly a Starfleet Escort and have it look like the shows. The Defiant of course being the exception, because in the show it had the quad cannons.
Also Yreodred, Everytime somebody mentions the Orion FDC in any thread Feds start asking for their version of it. I didn't even know that the the Dreadnought Cruiser had been upgraded with a Hanger bay.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
But yeah i'm a bit stubborn about this, my fault i admit that.
Of course that was just an idea, it could be done somehow different too.
Maybe simply allow every Starfleet Cruiser (not Battlecruiser!) to equip 2-3 Omni Beams at max in their rear weapon slots. The lowest turning ones get 3 and faster ones (turnrate 9+) get 2.
My suggestion at the opening post was just a WIP of course.
Yeah, i almost forgot that you can rainbow them anyway.
(But rainbow-ing is one of the best things to do if you want a gimped build, lol.)
Why shouldn't they be able to Beam Overload?
One Omni BA alone can to a 360° Beam Overload you don't need several of them for this.
I think the main problem would be excessive use of FAW, but since this is going to be nerfed...
The only real change would be that Starfleet cruisers wouldn't have to broadside anymore. It would give players to choice to broadside or not. (Every other ship gives you that choice, only Starfleet cruisers don't)
But atm you're stuck at broadsiding and/or spam FAW all the time. Not very thrilling or exciting tbh and not even something uniqe.
My point is that Starfleet Cruisers simply feel too generic, they have nothing every other ship has too. giving them additional omnis WOULD be something unique (and it wouldn't be OP IMO).
I wouldn't like the idea of putting multiple Omnis on a Escort TBH.
I can't remember the defiant using multiple Beam Arrays at all. Afaik it had a single one, but multiple?.. i got to check that.
Anyway, why should a escort player need several omnis in the rear weapons slot in the first place?
It's not like Escorts wouldn't already have every possible advantage the devs came up with, lol.
Don't get me wrong, but i simply can't understand that subliminal "hate" against Starfleet cruisers some ppl show here.
I mean these are the ships most pple love in Trek, why should they be the most boring ships in the game?
It's almost like some ppl think that only noobs and beginners would fly them and every "expert" or "pro" player stands above that...
(If that's right, would find that pretty arogant TBH. But i hope i'm wrong with this.)
To be honest, i never understood the "need" for a carrier ship in a Star trek game.
IDK what's supposed to be so great about them and what so awesome about that orion ship anyway.
Personyally i couldn't care less about Carriers, for all I care they can get 5 uni CMDR stations a 15 weapon slots front/rear, i wouldn't fly one.
Sorry for ripping apart your posts, i hope you both don't mind.
From this post, this post, and finally this post. You aren't even attempting to hide your Feddie-bear bias against the other factions getting something of their own. Albeit roms have too much in their court, but that's not really the purview or this discussion.
No I've never heard of broadsiding, but I was somehow talking about it here and here. Broadsiding at least makes the cruiser pilot do some sort of flying. Making beams have even bigger firing arcs would reduce this need to actually be able to fly a ship smartly even more, so the added option would be better DPS while zombie-cruiser-ing about? Speaking of not hearing about things, here's the torpedo I mentioned earlier that you can still aimlessly use while broadsiding a target. So there's another option for you.
One: You really want to change mechanics because of looks? Great, cryptic probably loves you.
Two: Figured you were upset turrets couldn't be used with the precious FAW, see here.
Three: As it should be.
Four: Wide Angle Quantum Torpedo Launcher
It's simple, no ship should be able to load that many 360 degree firing weapons. We are already slowly getting to that point with the omni choices and KCB. One of the last marks of skill left in the spacebar-mashing pve world is ship piloting, and what you want to do would detract from that even more. Players who can actually fly their ships to take advantage of ANY weapons they choose to use should do better than those who can't fly them. In other words, figure out how to use the ships with bad turn rate and more weapons, or go fly something else. Cryptic shouldn't change game mechanics because you really like starfleet cruisers and want them to be able to do everything all the other faction ships can. The KDF is in shambles right now due to Cryptic's decisions, and pve heroes kicking them while they're down is partly why the die-hard KDF players hate feddie-bears so much.
Barely anyone uses them because we live in an age of STO where max DPS is everything in carebear (pve) land. No one is saying you can't, or shouldn't. By all means go ahead and try. Starfleet cruisers can't use DHCs because in the beginning, you were supposed to select a ship class based on what style of gameplay you wanted. Over the years differences between the classes of ships have become very diluted, and it has lead to cruiser pilots like yourself wondering why they don't just have everything. Also, please look at this ship, and this ship. Once again though, your response will probably be "why can't I do everything on everything because DS9/First Contact/some other canon reference/the evul klinks can."
I'm not taking any reference to canon as a serious argument when the original weapon in question, (omni-directional beam array), is something that never existed in canon.
By now you should, if not, read everything above again.
Not afraid at all, I know from experience that broadsiding with 8 beam arrays will deliver the most damage. What I am most concerned about, as stated before, is removing the need for cruiser pilots to actually be half-decent pilots. Adding this on top of what A2B has done to the cruiser pilot community, and we'll have an even bigger portion of the player base that can't actually do anything for themselves in this game anymore.
2 of those Omni Beams are Antiproton and the Borg Kinetic Beam is usually used with Assimilated Module for the 2P bonus. I also thought it got a benefit from Antiproton consoles, I was wrong on that one.
I think most would prefer it not to, Personally I'd love to be able to set a specific Weapon as the only one Beam Overload effects.
Your sort of falling into your own argument here, Your implying Single Cannon and Turrets are not an option for Cruisers, that's not a Broadside build. You also can't use a Dual Beam Bank and Turrets build. while the turrets don''t benefit from your Beam enhancements if your using Beam Overload rather than Fire at Will you can only power up one beam, and your not using Fire at Will because your not making a Broadsider. It seems your saying without multiple Omni's your limited to a Broadsider.
Your right but you misunderstood me, I meant the Defiant with Cannons looks Canon, but the Promethius or Akira with Cannons doesn't look right they where beam boats in the show.
Because it would look like the Escorts in the TV Show, while it would be a DPS hit I'm sure you could still do more than enough DPS for Elite Space.
Agreed, they just aren't very Trek. But they are here to stay so we have to deal with it.
I don't mind you attacking my arguments, it's part of a healthy exchange of ideas. I also don't think your counter argument is as Iron Clad as this final shot would imply.
I don't think 8 Beam Arrays are OP, and by that Logic I don't think 8 Omni Beam Arrays are OP, don't they lose DPS for the [Arc] Modifier?
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Do you mean the one from the "Ancient Obelisk Technology Set" and a crafted one?
I thought you can only equip one at a time.
Hmm, my point was to give Starfleet Cruisers finally something in exchange for Dual Heavy Cannons.
I mean other factions "cruisers" and (most) lobi ship "cruisers" can equip DHCs. The only exception is the Risian Luxury Cruiser...
Maybe the devs wanted to imply that starfleet cruisers are not much more than Luxury Cruisers in their eyes? :mad:
I can understand that Starfleet Cruisers never where shown using DHCs (although the Prometheus and Akira wheren't show unsing them too, btw.), and i'm ok with this. But they should get something in exchange and i am not talking about some boring comm array power that lets NPCs shoot at you.
(What a stupid concept in the first place IMO. Escorts&Sci Ships can take care for themselves, as it should be.)
So instead of giving Starfleet Cruisers some weapon kind of system that resembles their "real" counterpart, the devs basicly made the exact opposite, lol.
In "real" Trek the Prometheus never was such a nimble ship as in STO and i heavily doubt that it was even considered giving her cannons.
I think Cryptic should have made the Prometheus much more like they made Avenger much later. The same for the Akira, i think it should have been made a Excelsior-like Cruiser, instead of a Escort-Carrier (lol, what a combination).
Both ships where shown completely different in every appearance outside STO, i have no idea why cryptics devs made them like spacefighters. (i know about original idea of the Akira being a torpedo-carrier super awesomness ship. That designer had no idea about Star trek, lol)
I think so [arc] is a modifier like any other, in that case.
I wish they had given omni beams the same damage like turrets in the first place. Giving them higher damage and limiting them to only one just created more problems for players using beam arrays (but it's ok for DHC Escorts/Cruisers, well it's no surprise...)
I'm pretty sure you can, but I don't know 100%, you can use the Kinetic Cutting Beam and the Ancient Obelisk Beam together and they are limited to 1 per ship.
Yeah I always thought the Akira and Prometheus should have been Combat orientated Cruisers rather than Escorts. I really don't feel they should have tried for a trinity of tank/heals/dps in this game.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Would it be too late to change that now? Who am I kidding of course it is, cryptic isn't going to want to change it, that would mean giving a full refund, and I don't think that's allowed by the rules of acquisition
Either allow multiple Omni beams on ALL ships from ALL factions, or leave it at one per ship. I know one per ship has changed the layout and loadout of all of my ships to almost exactly what I wanted them to be but had to work around for lack of a 360 beam before.
Besides, if you really watch the ships on the various shows in action, especially the Enterprise D, most of their beams while not technically, are effectively 360 degrees anyway.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
The only real perk the Federation ships have over other factions is more different skins to choose from. More isn't always better sometimes its just more.
All other ships have one or several advantages over Starfleet Cruisers, while they rtaimain the most boring ships in the game.
They should finally get something apropriate and something that is actually useful at the same time.
To be honest, Escorts really don't need several omni beams. They can already turn like champions. Let Starfleet cruisers have something that make them stand out and make them interesting to play.
I can't get around the feeling that the more you are fan of "classy" star trek things (like Starfleet cruisers), the more you get punished in STO.
What if STO wheren't a Star Trek game at all? Let's think about it for a minute .
Who would seriously want to fly a cruiser?
I bet not even half the people flying Starfleet cruisers now would do it, because they give you the least options and almost force a player to broadside. Not only that, they are by design the most boring ships in the game (thanks Cryptic :rolleyes:).
Someone at Cryptics really must hate Star Trek series (except DS9 of course = no hero "crusier" but an escort...)
Compared to other factions "crusers", Starfleet Cruisers have no access to cloak (not that i would want one) and they are not allowed to equip the most heavy weapons (DHCs) and the second most heavy weapons (DCs) in the game. (and most of the time, Cryptics ship designs ships look awful IMO)
What they get is a tiny bit more hull in "exchange". But since hull is healed like nothing in STO, that "advantage" is almost not noticeable IMO.
Any now ppl. tell me they where powerful enough?
Compared to what? And please spare me with those 30k DPS ships.
They only work in a good team, but alone they would die in a minute if they get in the focus of a enemy ship. What those builds do is raise the statistics without being effective, they just blindfire at everything in range, every factions "cruiser" can do that and reach such high DPS numbers with the right equipment. It's nothing that's reserved for Starfleet Cruisers alone.
Seriously i don't understand this games "meta game" at all.
I don't understand some ppls positon either. It's not that 3 or 4 omni beams would make Starfleet Cruisers OP.
It would simply allow them to do something else besides broadsiding, it would make them more interesting/versatile AND it would make them a bit more like they where in the shows. But the most important thing is, it would make them at least a bit more fun to fly.
[sarcasm/on]
Maybe that's too much for some ppl to handle, popular ships that are actually fun to fly, impossible. lol.[sarcasm/off]
I presume this would only apply to there base turnrate, correct? Because there are ways to make a cruiser turn quick
Of course the details are open for discussion, the original idea isn't set in stone.
Lowering the allowed Omis is perfectly alright, as long as it is within reason.
They do in fact do a littl emore dmg as turrets, that's why i think there should be some limit depending on the ships turnrate.
So big and heavier ships would finally get a little, tiny bit more firepower compared to light/faster ones. Those ships better use DBBs IMO.
(which is still a joke compared to DHCs + Turrets.)
So it's for sure that you can equip Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array (from Ancient Obelisk Technology Set) AND a "regular" Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array ?
They are pretty expensive so i would like to know for sure that you can equip both weapons at the same time.
In game description is a bit vague about that.
And btw. Even if they could equip 4 omnis in their rear weapons slots it wouldn't make any difference dmg wise compared to a 8 beam FAW beamboat. Quite the contrary, Omnis do a little less dmg than ordinary Beam arrays.
Aux2Bat has nothing to do with that. If you can't stand cruisers in general then a Star Trek game is clearly the wrong game for you.
Tad silly however, I'd still keep it inline with the stepped damage as 360 weapons do less damage than arrays and arrays do less damage than DBB.
I don't see an issue with being able to mount more than one 360 array. No more difference than mounting a turret to me.
Now far as FAW and all that jazz that need to be reworked, that's another story.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The little less doesn't compensate for the fact that the cruiser can just fire away without worrying about turning. Basically, you throw all the game's turn rate debuffs into the garbage, not to mention the turn rate penalty cruisers have. Again, not a change you can put into the game without messing something else up.
The increased fireing arc would be a compensation for not being able to use DHCs.
Turn rate debuffs should first and foremost hurt nimble escorts, Crusiers are so slow compared to them, it doesn't really matter.
You may see it different, but every other ships got "toys" (like you say) in the first place. Starfleet Crusiers got nothing. They have to rely on weapons and tactics that are accessible to anyone.
What's the point of flying Starfleet cruisers in the first place?
(aside from sentimental reasons)
@shookyang
I just tested, you can only equip one omni-directional beam array, no matter if its the same energy weapon type or not.
Therefore, you can go KCB + one other omni beam of any sorts already on every ship in the game...
And I can see the OP's point. If you define "cruiser" as 4x fore, 4x Aft weapon slots, with primarily engineering oriented BOff & Console seating - then let me point this out to you:
From the "Fed Standard", KDF gives up hull for maneuver, and a cruiser command for DHCs. Rommie gives up cruiser command for DHCs, and power for battlecloak...
You're gonna tell me, with a straight face, that whatever cruiser command it is (as I don't fly enough cruisers to know by heart) compensates for the extra damage available from DHCs?
So that tells me that we kinda-should come up with a better "trick" for Feddie cruisers. Now, I'll toss that the "official canon" loadout of a cruiser should be along the lines of 3x array 1x torp both fore and aft. With KCB and one omni array already slottable, and the canon torp in the tail, that would mean giving Feds +1 extra omni ([Arc]) array as their "trick" might not be as OP as the naysayers worry...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Yet it's fair to have cannon builds that can throw X number of cannons in the tail and cover full 360 AND have full firepower to the front?
Yeah somehow I do not find that fair.
Sorry just because a few Boff powers are out of whack does not mean cruisers should be hampered by it. Fix the BOFF issues then watch as cruisers suddenly lose 80% off their punch, where do you go from there?
Oh wait, allow them to equip omni's like cannon turrets. Who'd of thunk it?!
Divorce equipment from boffs before going off half cocked friend.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Turrets are really low damage weapons. It takes more skill to fly an escort with cannons than to fly a cruiser spewing FAW all over the place. Want to lolz even more on the cruiser? Bring up your part gens and spam FBP1.
4DHC+4turrets = more Damage than 4BA+4Omni.
Heck what if they would limit DBB or DHCs to only one per ship, idk how many escort players would react to this.
/sarcasm on
Yeah, of course only skilled players fly escorts, while all noobs fly cruisers. :rolleyes:
/sarcasm off
The problem is most ppl flying cruisers don't care about that. They simply want their ships to be on par. Blame Cryptic for introducing broken, OP and boring abilities, but not the players wanting a Star Trek experience instead of flying a Escort and play Star Wars.
Beam overload has been changed, just as FAW will be changed in forseeable time.
What is the thing everyone has suddenly against FBP?
It's a legitimate counter to OP escorts.
It sounds like everything that can be dangerous for a escort is automaticly OP.
No offense but i don't hear any word about Escorts being OP because they can tank like a Cruiser + getting a "get me out of here" ability (APO) being OP.
But as soon as someone makes a suggestion to make Starfleet Cruisers a bit fun to fly everybody jumps out of their escorts (and battlecruisers) and cry OP!! lol.
->Turrets + DHCs = standard Escort/Battlecruiser