Console Fluidic Phase Decoupler NEED a nerf please DEVs look at this video

ibuyevryship

Hi, this was a match that happened today with the 2 best PVP fleet in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpbEAhppnYU

[Console - Universal - Fluidic Phase Decoupler] Has no counter to it. It was perfect when it first came out - tractor beam and gravity well were perfect counters . So please if you watch the video you will see that console is bad now!!!

ghyudt

OK, the hour long video was entirely unnecessary. The devs are not going to sit and watch that whole thing. Second, there are other more immediate concerns to address. Besides, the only problem I noticed is that heal abilities are still far too effective on high dps ships.

ibuyevryship

ghyudt wrote: »

OK, the hour long video was entirely unnecessary. The devs are not going to sit and watch that whole thing. Second, there are other more immediate concerns to address. Besides, the only problem I noticed is that heal abilities are still far too effective on high dps ships.

just watch every 2 min , our 2 escort use alpha then our sci use subnuke then other team use that console, ,WHY do you think that video took one HOUR ... and the healing, i did have only hasard emmiter 2 with low aux, dont you think the teamates can heal ??

shadowwraith77

I am kind of missing the point, as to why this console as you said is useless now?

Need more specifics.

ibuyevryship

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

I am kind of missing the point, as to why this console as you said is useless now?

Need more specifics.

i say there is no counter and it need a nerf

shadowwraith77

ibuyevryship wrote: »

i say there is no counter and it need a nerf

The counter, is to wait for them to reappear, not nerf its usefulness.

blahhdrey

It was more balanced when it was hard-countered by tractor beam.

ibuyevryship

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

The counter, is to wait for them to reappear, not nerf its usefulness.

have you seen the video and the description ?

ibuyevryship wrote: »

Hi, this was a match that happened today with the 2 best PVP fleet in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpbEAhppnYU

[Console - Universal - Fluidic Phase Decoupler] Has no counter to it. It was perfect when it first came out - tractor beam and gravity well were perfect counters . So please if you watch the video you will see that console is bad now!!!

shadowwraith77

blahhdrey wrote: »

It was more balanced when it was hard-countered by tractor beam.

Technically, it shouldn't have been effected, by tractor beam in the first place.

ibuyevryship wrote: »

have you seen the video and the description ?

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Fluidic_Phase_Decoupler

Yes, and the description specifically states, untargetable.

Meaning even tractor beams, and such should technically have absolutely no target, during its use.

blahhdrey

Whether or not it was intended in theory to render a player completely untargettable by tractor beams, the console was more balanced in premade play when it was greyed out by tractor beam. This game has far too many jailbreak abilities and when coupled with defensive power creep you're looking at some very stilted gameplay in PvP. Add to this the fact that the console can be swapped as soon as a clean getaway is made, and in my opinion you've got a bit of a problem. (I'm not saying that IC swapped at all, just following the train of thought.)

shadowwraith77

blahhdrey wrote: »

Whether or not it was intended in theory to render a player completely untargettable by tractor beams, the console was more balanced in premade play when it was greyed out by tractor beam. This game has far too many jailbreak abilities and when coupled with defensive power creep you're looking at some very stilted gameplay in PvP. Add to this the fact that the console can be swapped as soon as a clean getaway is made, and in my opinion you've got a bit of a problem. (I'm not saying that IC swapped at all, just following the train of thought.)

I understand the frustration, but when an item is intended with the listed results, and is put into the game by the Dev's, it is what it is, and people will make heavy use of it.

skurf

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

Technically, it shouldn't have been effected, by tractor beam in the first place.



http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Fluidic_Phase_Decoupler

Yes, and the description specifically states, untargetable.

Meaning even tractor beams, and such should technically have absolutely no target, during its use.

Once it's used you are not targetable, but before you use it, obviously you are targetable. If you are tractored you should not be able to activate it. It should react similar to cloak. Once you cloak you are hidden from other players, which is a very powerful defensive ability, but there are certain things that can prevent you from entering cloak in the first place. In addition, there are ways that you can see cloakers and/or pull them out of cloak, unlike when someone uses this console.

The devs are starting a trend of introducing consoles that have absolutely no hard counter to them at all (or even soft counters), which is a very dangerous direction to take the game. First, it was the Subspace Integration Circuit and now the Fluidic Phase Decoupler. Even Temporal Inversion Field has a hard counter, and that takes up two weapon slots, a console, and costs 600 zen. The only counters to Fluidic Phase and Subspace rupture are just to wait for the consoles' powers to expire, which is not a counter at all. By the time the console wears off, the target could be 50k away in any direction because of the speed and turn boost that it gives the user, so just waiting for the console to expire does absolutely nothing.

If you are completely hidden and untargetable after you activate the console, then there should be some way to prevent them from activating the console in the first place. Otherwise, it's just too powerful and it is the main reason that the game that the OP posted lasted an entire hour.

shadowwraith77

skurf wrote: »

Once it's used you are not targetable, but before you use it, obviously you are targetable. If you are tractored you should not be able to activate it. It should react similar to cloak. Once you cloak you are hidden from other players, which is a very powerful defensive ability, but there are certain things that can prevent you from entering cloak in the first place. In addition, there are ways that you can see cloakers and/or pull them out of cloak, unlike when someone uses this console.

The devs are starting a trend of introducing consoles that have absolutely no hard counter to them at all (or even soft counters), which is a very dangerous direction to take the game. First, it was the Subspace Integration Circuit and now the Fluidic Phase Decoupler. Even Temporal Inversion Field has a hard counter, and that takes up two weapon slots, a console, and costs 600 zen. The only counters to Fluidic Phase and Subspace rupture are just to wait for the consoles' powers to expire, which is not a counter at all. By the time the console wears off, the target could be 50k away in any direction because of the speed and turn boost that it gives the user, so just waiting for the console to expire does absolutely nothing.

If you are completely hidden and untargetable after you activate the console, then there should be some way to prevent them from activating the console in the first place. Otherwise, it's just too powerful and it is the main reason that the game that the OP posted lasted an entire hour.

Not really regarding the cloaking bit, the console doesn't act like a cloak, but more like using the jump console, or even more like a singularity jump, in which you not only can escape, but also cause your enemy to lose targeting of you.

I didn't make the thing, I am only stating that this is how they designed it, and even than it could be changed at some point.

ibuyevryship

skurf wrote: »

Once it's used you are not targetable, but before you use it, obviously you are targetable. If you are tractored you should not be able to activate it. It should react similar to cloak. Once you cloak you are hidden from other players, which is a very powerful defensive ability, but there are certain things that can prevent you from entering cloak in the first place. In addition, there are ways that you can see cloakers and/or pull them out of cloak, unlike when someone uses this console.

The devs are starting a trend of introducing consoles that have absolutely no hard counter to them at all (or even soft counters), which is a very dangerous direction to take the game. First, it was the Subspace Integration Circuit and now the Fluidic Phase Decoupler. Even Temporal Inversion Field has a hard counter, and that takes up two weapon slots, a console, and costs 600 zen. The only counters to Fluidic Phase and Subspace rupture are just to wait for the consoles' powers to expire, which is not a counter at all. By the time the console wears off, the target could be 50k away in any direction because of the speed and turn boost that it gives the user, so just waiting for the console to expire does absolutely nothing.

If you are completely hidden and untargetable after you activate the console, then there should be some way to prevent them from activating the console in the first place. Otherwise, it's just too powerful and it is the main reason that the game that the OP posted lasted an entire hour.

edalgo wrote: »

It's becoming a"Must have" console in PvP because it's so OP in terms of escape. Untargetable+Evasive Manuevers+unbreakable cloak all wrapped up into a box.


Console swapping still isn't fixed. It only has a bandaid on a broken leg.

i wonder why the devs changed it a week or 2 after it been released , i mean it was perfect

borticuscryptic

ibuyevryship wrote: »

i wonder why the devs changed it a week or 2 after it been released , i mean it was perfect

Pretty simple. It couldn't be activated while using Sensor Analysis, which also prevents cloaking for the user.

baelogventure

Don't listen to 'em Borticus. Most PvPers whine about the slightest thing that upsets their "balance" (lel)

ibuyevryship

nevermind .

puttenham

the part I found funny was his self recognition of hobo being one of the best pvp fleets in the game.. I was apart of them for a while, got tired of the little kid games going on between them and dental..

ill say, even if you are the best, it is in good taste to not be that guy... but then again, the 12 year old attitude over there in hobo would want to be that guy..

as far as the console.. ummm, I know how you counter it.. when they disappear and become untargatable, you get out of dodge.. regroup, and spank em when they reappear..

I agree with the poster that said this game has far too many get out of jail free cards.. most games have a trinket or two that break holds, or get you out of sticky situations.. part of being a good pvp'er is not getting into those sticky situations..

the pvp community as a whole has had so many cool abilies nerfed for everyone else, simply because they are too lazy to deal with them, or unwilling to change their own tactics..

suck it up buttercups..

snoge00f

Making it not work when tractor is on would be perfect.

We had so many kills lined up that were lost because of that. On the other side too I'm sure.

I don't know why PvEers would even need that kind of a console buff to begin with. Tractors aren't that common in PvE anyway.

I'm never in a situation in PvE where I'm thinking, "Oh no! I'm tractored and dead soon."

illcadia

ibuyevryship wrote: »

im uploading a video on youtube , SENSOR ANAYSIS do NOt prevent ppl from cloaking or did not counter that console

As someone who flies a scibird, you are most undeniably wrong. Sensor analysis DOES prevent you from cloaking when YOU are using it- that's why the console was changed. You're misreading the comment.

Before:

IF YOU ARE THE ONE USING SENSOR ANALYSIS, *YOU* COULD NOT ACTIVATE THAT CONSOLE OR CLOAK

After:

IF YOU ARE THE ONE USING SENSOR ANALYSIS, *YOU* CAN ACTIVATE THE CONSOLE, BUT YOU CANNOT CLOAK WHILE SA IS ACTIVE.


Sensor analysis never in any case prevented cloaking or console activation on the enemy it TARGETS.

ibuyevryship

nevermind .

ibuyevryship

nevermind .

blahhdrey

baelogventure wrote: »

Don't listen to 'em Borticus. Most PvPers whine about the slightest thing that upsets their "balance" (lel)

Please refrain from terrible attempts at derailing threads into flame wars.

bobosmrade1

Balance in PVP is perfectly good until you start losing

lucho80

ibuyevryship wrote: »

Hi, this was a match that happened today with the 2 best PVP fleet in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpbEAhppnYU

[Console - Universal - Fluidic Phase Decoupler] Has no counter to it. It was perfect when it first came out - tractor beam and gravity well were perfect counters . So please if you watch the video you will see that console is bad now!!!

Lol, complains about universal console of the month yet uses a bug ship. Heck, the Palisade in your team could have helped you bring that bug under control.

That video is a failed attempt at getting sympathy from us.

ibuyevryship

lucho80 wrote: »

Lol, complains about universal console of the month yet uses a bug ship. Heck, the Palisade in your team could have helped you bring that bug under control.

That video is a failed attempt at getting sympathy from us.

dude we won that match... and i made the video and im the bug ship ... BTW lucretia what in this thread hurt your feeling to get that kind of attitude ...

virusdancer

skurf wrote: »

...Subspace Integration Circuits....

Um, that's got all kinds of escapes to it...lol, including the Fluidic. :P

But seriously, the only way you're getting stuck in one of those is from multiple SNBs while being buried in EWP, Theta, Grav Wells, Tractor Mines, Tractor Beams, Reverse Tractors, etc, etc, etc, etc...

The devs adjusted it because of NPCs...they don't do all the stuff players do.

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Pretty simple. It couldn't be activated while using Sensor Analysis, which also prevents cloaking for the user.

ibuyevryship wrote: »

im uploading a video on youtube , SENSOR ANAYSIS do NOt prevent ppl from cloaking or did not counter that console

Might be a case that you're misunderstanding what Bort was saying. SA doesn't prevent cloak on the target, it prevents the person using it from cloaking. Back during the initial discussions about the change to SA, one of the things brought up was folks being able to build SA stacks while cloaked. Course, folks were just expecting it not to be usable while cloaked - but Cryptic when the prevents cloak route. SA's up...the cloak button's grayed out.

edalgo wrote: »

It's becoming a"Must have" console in PvP because it's so OP in terms of escape. Untargetable+Evasive Manuevers+unbreakable cloak all wrapped up into a box.

Yep, in my playing around with Willard the Rat...the Gnat...the annoying bouncing around guy that's not a threat, but he sure likes to bounce around...played around with all sorts of escapes. There are downsides to most of them - Feign, QSM, MEF, Warp Shadows, Singularity Jump, AMS, Barrier, Imp Cell, etc, etc, etc (heh, there are so many escapes)...but the only one that was a guaranteed neener-neener was the Fluidic one. It wasn't fun, there wasn't any challenge - so I unslotted it. Heh, I go in to battle with Willard knowing that he's already dead...I just like to prolong it and play out the cat 'n mouse game as the mouse. The Fluidic...oh well.

Still though, I'm not sure it's a case of needing to adjust how it can be activated. Perhaps it should be a case of looking at what happens after the activation. Some sort of vulnerability/debuff after the escape - you just jumped through fluidic space and all that.

blahhdrey wrote: »

Add to this the fact that the console can be swapped as soon as a clean getaway is made, and in my opinion you've got a bit of a problem. (I'm not saying that IC swapped at all, just following the train of thought.)

Meh, you know...I just don't know how to reply to that. I don't care about all the fleet rivalry/politics nonsense; but that just kind of irks me on a different level...cause well, the video is there for anybody to see - and - well, I didn't even think about it until this was said...but then I had to look.

And well, its' got that whole while one finger is pointing at another (even passively - maybe it was just wording) there are three pointing back.

I know I'm nobody special, and perhaps the aggro here is coming from biting my tongue and trying not to reply to the PvE troll...but I took the original post and the thread as a general commentary on the console, since both sides were using it. It came off as an honest post/thread about the console being an issue...

...this comment though, maybe it was just the wording. Meh, it brought that petty fleet drama stuff into it. You know how the devs are with that stuff, they tend to ignore it - the more they ignore it - the more PvP gets ignored...

...and yeah, I guess that's why it kind of caught me off guard and ticked me off a bit.

Cause while I can't really tell from the vid how often IC was using it, you can see the buff appear on the HoBO team...and...the times aren't always kosher.

Meh, I know my blood sugar's high - I checked, so maybe that's it...maybe it's some male PMS going on, lol? I don't know. I'm nobody special, but it still irks me when comments like that (even if I'm reading it wrong, would I be the only one?) get made in threads like this...cause it can distract...the devs can ignore...and meh, the same ol' same ol' goes on and on.

lucho80 wrote: »

That video is a failed attempt at getting sympathy from us.

They uh...won that match (yeah, I got bored and scrolled to the end when I first tried watching the video). They also used the console themselves. It's just a "hey, this console...hey, devs? this console...uh, really?" thread.

baelogventure wrote: »

Don't listen to 'em Borticus. Most PvPers whine about the slightest thing that upsets their "balance" (lel)

/yourfacemypalm

illcadia

ibuyevryship wrote: »

well again SENSOR analysis do not work as intended, ppl can cloak and they can use that console i just made a video should able to see it soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WJ_KeDWR4U&feature=youtu.be

You need to stop being mad and learn to read.


Sensor analysis NEVER prevented its target from cloaking or activating the console. It prevents its USER from cloaking- and originally it prevented its user from activating the console, but this was a bug and has since been fixed.

IT DOES NOT PREVENT ITS TARGET FROM CLOAKING, NOR IS IT INTENDED TO.

ashkrik23

Really....you want a nerf on a console that last like 6-7 seconds?

It's a small cloak, that's it.

ibuyevryship

illcadia wrote: »

You need to stop being mad and learn to read.


Sensor analysis NEVER prevented its target from cloaking or activating the console. It prevents its USER from cloaking- and originally it prevented its user from activating the console, but this was a bug and has since been fixed.

IT DOES NOT PREVENT ITS TARGET FROM CLOAKING, NOR IS IT INTENDED TO.

but ya ok, then it need a nerf ( return like how it was) if you saw that video you will understand why the game took one hour ...

ashkrik23

So one-shots are okay, but a mini-cloak isn't?


*Rollseyes*