thanks. i was heavily thinkin of a descriptions for my feelings towards the "federation" ship. i think tron hits it.
it has NOTHIN to do anymore with fedships.
its hull is blueish. its all boxy. its more tholian, aquatic, alien than federation.
the romulan ship LOOKS like a romulan ship.
the kdf one looks a bit tooo familiar with all those "vorcha" (all have same triangular front, long broadening neck and the typical vorcha wing and nacelle - gets a bit boring) revamps somehow. but it looks like a klingon ship.
the "fed" ship doesnt look like sth from startrek even. its not good really and the escort looks like a flattened defiant with way to flat nacelles and all.
i must say somehow cryptic just cant design federation ships. they try to play with the basic designs of saucer, hull and necelles and pylons - but the MIXTURE is always wrong somehow.
the only real work i liked was the oddy so far, they made a good thing out of the concept.
but these ships are just NOT FEDERATION or STARFLEET at all.
i dont get where they get those design ideas from ... i mean no starfleetship ever looked this way. id rather prefer those original prelaunch designs (those with the mico engineering section where engineering and neck formed ONE hullpart)
those ships are way to flat to have room in them for decks.
it makes me nightmares.
but why do they get the rom and kdf design? never seen a totally abroad romulan ship so far. okay some of the kdf brel look a bit to fragile, but thats all.
but federation always wents out like " we UTTERLY HAVE TO MAKE STH DIFFERENT even if it looks **** - kind of deign.
the avenger would have looked great with a round saucer, but no, this would have looked to much like a modern conny - so lets just stretch out that saucer until it heavyloads the front area design of the ship ...
it always looks so ... "inventionist on purpose"
___
i have to agree: crytic: tehre are lots of really NICE done fanarts out there, just ask the conceptionist and just TAKE IT OVER.
ship i like most:
us.s. HAMMER - kind of a defiant followup. a small escort with a nice turn in nacelle turn weapon out part - really GREAT idea. i bet those ppl would be glad to see their art come (virtually) true.
but cryptic please stop designing fedship - you cant take the grasp of it somehow.
KDF is a problem because they only design new when they have to. they are if it works don't fix it crowd. and odyessey was a fanmade ship not Cryptic design. thus they last 3 ships cryptic
Regent, Dyson ship, and Avenger. all freaking ugly and two of them without alt skins. While avenger is a good ship in performance she is UGLY. Please put the new orelans skin on that ship and i will switch it. Heck Give Ambassador niagra skin as well.
Sorry to say but I do feel that cryptic try a little to hard to distinguish their own designs from the source material.
I am all for non-cannon ships but I wish that cryptic would place these things next to a sovereign and ask themselves; 'Dose this look like its part of the same fleet' before they go live with them.
Keep it Starfleet cryptic, don't go crazy with hybrids and cross faction technology. An odd ship hear or there is fine, but when you do make something that doesn't fit in, don't give it 'must use stats' so that it becomes a staple.
Oh and while we are about it, Can we please get some more faction styled lockbox and lobi ships. Like the temporal lockbox. Maybe a section 31 box or something. Just please give us faction specific models so that when I look through my ship roster I don't have to feel like Starfleet's most successful privateer.
Ugh, absolutely agreed. To be honest, I've been kind of disgusted with cryptics designs as of late. While the star cruiser, Vesta, and odyssey were decent designs and look like they belong, they don't really have that trek feel. And the avenger absolutely doesn't belong. It looks like it was rushed out, and done by a novice. My 2 big problems with the odyssey have always been the proportiante size of the saucer to the hull, and the design of the nacelles and pylons. I think the saucer is so.ply too large wide compared to the rest of the ship, and the slopng pylons and curved nacelles don't really work for me. Not to mention the impulse engines buried inside the pylons.
I don't see the Tholian. Tholian look different to me. I'm more reminded of the holographic elements on some of the science kits. I kind of grasp the Tron, but then, considering the existence of the Aegis set and the Veteran hull texture... I'm not surprised to see it become more of a trend.
For now, the T6 ship pictured reminds me a lot of a Constellation-class, with a smidgeon of Phoenix-class (Prometheus variant) due to the way the nacelle pylons are disposed. It's kind of hard to figure much else, since we have a lot of angles missing and don't see the side/top of the primary hull.
I do have the impression that the 'nose' may be a rather unsightly large deflector arrack. Can't explain the shape there otherwise. I kind of hope it's not like the Armitage's front; that's not a design language I'm eager to see perpetuated.
that was my point totally. i kind of get used to the avenger, but only because of its aft section thats totally great, but just wont fit with the egg-saucer.
the only reason why the oddy doesnt went down the drain was because it was a fanbased ship. totally agree on this.
thats why id advise cryptic to alter fanbased designs rather than designing themselves.
i dont know why but they dont have the feeling for starfleet ships. (rom and kdf were VERY fitting, rom ship gives me goosebumps)
or they should take design advice.
i dont want to be personal in this or hurting feelings, but the designer MUST have missed some design lessons. design isnt just about drawing, but about having some "logical, engineering, correct, and buildable" feeling. those ships look inconclusive.
nacelles this flat cant bear any tech for warp. - if this ship doesnt use conventional warp anymore (dauntles/coaxial) - why have nacelles then?! (just one of those questions i would ask)
its like when you invented a nev hovercar, and would still build wheel houses - while it doesnt use wheels ...
just try to explain WHY this design is so ... inconclusive to me.
i just dont like cryptics endresults.
the blocky design of the avenger is basically total cool. it looks resilient.
BUT the damn saucer eggshape totally kills it. and that was an "on puropose" thing to differ it from connyt5 only. and thats what i hate.
i looked at that "fed" ship again:
its a constellation reboot. yes: CONSTELLATION. (it resebles one of those t3 variants, just look closer, even if it hurts)
and just to not make it look like the old stargazer, it was made OVERLY redesigned like on drugs. just to avoid similarity.
the reason i spoke about the kdf ship is, that somehow noone tried it there to "redesign so it doesnt look like vorcha".
so why do it with this stargazer reboot.? i dont get it. its buttugly just because this "intentionally redesign" just takes it to far.
i also hate those eggshaped saucers that stress the front section andm ake it imbalanced to the aft section. it looks "inbalanced" when you try to figure out the "center of mass" point. its to "arrow front" like. like agressive spearheads.
its just not starfleet.
id like to see those excalibur concepts rather.
(with some changes of course, flatten the neck section so it doesnt look TOOO neck-y)
There are clear visual interpretations as to what is what in Star Trek. Cryptic are not making their own random space sci-fi MMO here, they need to follow some basic guidelines behind Star Trek. For it's entire life, the franchise has portrayed a certain design style for all involved parties. For some unknown reason, Cryptic has serious issues grasping the Starfleet design concepts even though there is literally an infinite number of fan-made and professional designs for Starfleet ships on the web to take ideas from. Interestingly enough, they don't seem to have this problem with Romulan designs and their Klingon designs are usually spot on.
Starfleet is not forbidden to change the design style, although the people behind Star Trek obviously think that this would be a stupid idea and strip one of the main trademarks of the franchise - as evidenced in all the shows and movies where Starfleet ships vary, but still follow the basic design principle ever since TOS.
If Cryptic is making and marketing this as a Star Trek game, then no, they shoudln't mess with the basic principles of design of the main protagonists. When people go to STO to play a Star Trek game, it should be reckognizable to them and not make them go "WTF?!?".
If Starfleet is to employ a new design style, this will be done in a Star Trek show or a movie - and game studios afterwards can draw inspiration from that "new" design concept. Making something that doesn't resemble anything people have seen on-screen will only result in negative remarks.
Note that I'm not saying that's what's happening here. We still have to little material to work with so we can draw such conclusions. I'm just commenting on Starfleet changing design principles.
If the hull materials seen on the 2 new T6 Federation concepts are not infact shield effects or similar but how they envision Federation hulls would look like a T6, then it's a too large departure from the franchise and what made Trek, Trek.
100% agreed!
I don't really get what's the issue Cryptics designers have with Starfleet ships. I just don't get it.
If they don't like them, why work on a STAR TREK game in the first place?
I mean STO isn't the only game around. Why is it so hard to employ some ppl. who actually like Trek and respect the IP?
What also bugs me is the lack of variation.
They use their own Starfleet style over and over again, as if ther never was anything else.
I mean, if some of their designs where good looking it wouldn't be so bad, but as soon as they try to create a ship from scratch its almost certain, it's going to be a clunky, deformed, "cool" (in the opinion of a five year old) looking ship.
What's even worse, they all follow the same pattern:
Weird proportions, super long nacelles, tongue -shaped saucer, bulky engineering hull and the most improper designed pylons possible, lol. (at least 2 of those "features" every Cryptic designed Starfleet ship of the last years has IMO)
For me it looks like they are not even trying to produce nice looking Starfleet ships, it looks like they where deliberately creating ugly stuff because they don't like Trek anyways.
Originally i thought they where trying to find a unique style, but lately it seems they just try to AVOID to creat nice looking ship for whatever reason. Personally i have given up trying to understand the motivation, i just want those experiments to end.
Cleaning up and detail are what the Jupiter and Typhoon need if they become playable. The general design should stay the same. Not turned into something that looks like it was built in a Tholian shipyard.
I'm sorry man, but i'd rather see perpetuals Excalibur than the Assault cruiser kitbash (Typhoon) or the plain ugly Jupiter.
(Just my personal preference.)
But i don't see a reason not to implement all those ships, at least they look way better than the tron-spade ship.
Cryptic already owns all those designs, i just can't understand why they don't use those already.
I know there are some who don't like them, but at least there are ppl who like them in the first place!
And yes, the new ships look again like fusion of (supposedly) Starfleet tech and tholian design. Why are Cryptics designers unable to create GOOD LOOKING STARFLEET ships for a change?
As shpoks already said, there are hundreds of really awesome ship designs made by fans. Why do Cryptics designers have to come up with abominations like this Tron- ship, the Avenger or the Dyson ships for example, instead of getting inspired by those designs?
Is that really all they can do?
I don't get it, sorry.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
all their starfleet ships look like they come from sth else. tron, starwars ( science crusier t5 nacelles and shape look like the noobian cruiser from sw ep 1) or stargate or just highheels or male genitals. ( no reason to blurr this: the caitian carrier just looks this way o0)
it really seems thei either never got it, or are no real trek or starfleet fans.
their kdf and rom ship look great on the other hand. but its easier, they all resemble birds. pretty easy game then ^^
but what do starfleet ships resemble? i couldnt say. maybe this is it, what makes it so difficult? but otherwise: many many fans can design starfleetships (that dont look like kitbashes).
So, they have a certain design style and they're forever forbidden to change the style? Sorry, but I don't buy that at all.
I suspect you're in the minority in this.
Most on STO are fans of the canon, otherwise there are, simply, better space-based MMO's out there.
Most don't mind changes, as long as it keeps the "feel" of ST. I'm not the biggest fan of the Dyson Science Destroyers, Vesta etc but they still FEEL like future trek ships. They feel like evolutions of what we have.
Nobody's saying that Starfleet would have kept the same designs forever, but at the same time they're unlikely to, in one go, completely change the design philosophy (shape, style), the technology used (warp etc, which effects the design philosophy) and the materials used to make it... that's far too risky to change in one go.
If T6 used some slightly bluey material with more blue lights, for example, but were clearly developments of the style, I'd accept that as a "we found new alloys that work well and want to use them in construction". If they were Starfleet coloured with a slowly morphing style (ie TNG->TOS->VOY->Late DS9/VOY etc) we could see where it was going...
The TRIBBLE they've put out for T6 so far, though, feels like someone's been watching too much Tron Legacy and sitting on Deviant Art posting concept pictures. They don't feel at all related to the T5 stuff... while the Romulan and Klingon ones do feel like developments of the canon, even if they're somewhat different.
Most on STO are fans of the canon, otherwise there are, simply, better space-based MMO's out there.
Most don't mind changes, as long as it keeps the "feel" of ST. I'm not the biggest fan of the Dyson Science Destroyers, Vesta etc but they still FEEL like future trek ships. They feel like evolutions of what we have.
Nobody's saying that Starfleet would have kept the same designs forever, but at the same time they're unlikely to, in one go, completely change the design philosophy (shape, style), the technology used (warp etc, which effects the design philosophy) and the materials used to make it... that's far too risky to change in one go.
If T6 used some slightly bluey material with more blue lights, for example, but were clearly developments of the style, I'd accept that as a "we found new alloys that work well and want to use them in construction". If they were Starfleet coloured with a slowly morphing style (ie TNG->TOS->VOY->Late DS9/VOY etc) we could see where it was going...
The TRIBBLE they've put out for T6 so far, though, feels like someone's been watching too much Tron Legacy and sitting on Deviant Art posting concept pictures. They don't feel at all related to the T5 stuff... while the Romulan and Klingon ones do feel like developments of the canon, even if they're somewhat different.
So, the tier 6 Federation ships are "TRIBBLE," eh? is that a fact or just opinion?
Both of these ships are equally as ugly as sin ... but for different reasons.
I wouldn't be interested in owning and playing either of those ships unless they were ridiculously overpowered (making it silly NOT to use that ship in the game).
Sorry, but I'll stick to the new Intrepid/Voyager when it comes out or the Constellation(Picard's Stargazer) if it ever shows up. Since this game is STAR TREK Online I come here mainly to play ships that I saw on the shows and not random Sci-Fi ships inspired by Trek.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
For me it looks like they are not even trying to produce nice looking Starfleet ships, it looks like they where deliberately creating ugly stuff because they don't like Trek anyways.
Originally i thought they where trying to find a unique style, but lately it seems they just try to AVOID to creat nice looking ship for whatever reason. Personally i have given up trying to understand the motivation, i just want those experiments to end.
I really don't think that's the case here. I think it's more of somekind of designer's block they're experiencing ocassionaly. If they really hated Trek, then their Klingon and Romulan designs would suck terribly, but they don't. They've got Klingon ships so spot on that I used the same ships in the KDF's 2 years of ship drought and never got bored with the ships I had. They're just that awesome. They've hit this same creative lull on some Romulan ships as well (all the Ha' variants), but pulled back amazingly with a design like the Veteran Daeinos.
I think it's more prominent on Starfleet ships because they make much more of them and they already have much more of them, so I get the feeling the designers get lost with what to do at certain times.
I don't think the ship designers make fugly ships on purpose. That would make no sense. For ex. I'm a fan of some of JamJamz's work - I absolutely love the Kumaris. The Tempest is spot on for a Starfleet ship, just the refreshment in the "new century" lineup that was needed, I'm a huge huge fan of that design. The Regent is also a very solid and Starfleet looking design if you neglect that the saucer looks a bit unfinished from the underside. Still as a design concept, it passes with very good grades. The Avenger while looking too blocky for my taste and having weird proportions (in my opinion), still looks like a Starfleet ship enough - especially if you consider they very going with a Vengeance knock-off, the black hull option is a dead giveaway. I hate that option.
The DSDs on the other hand.....are a different story. It looks like they've tried to follow some basic design elements, but changed them so horribly wrong that resulted in this abomination in an attempt to mesh Dyson with Starfleet tech. And that's a part of what worries me in regard to the T6 ships. Someone mentioned that they look that way because it's yet another mesh between Starfleet and some "alien" technology. I really hope this is just a misinformation. Because if it's true, that it's a beginning of a pattern in STO, a pattern that won't end well. That would mean they're literally turning the Federation into Borg - we go to someplace, encounter alien life and technology and then literally assimilate the technolgoy to a degree when Starfleet ships don't look Starfleet anymore.
If that continues, at the end of this game sometime in the future, when we'd have circumnavigated the galaxy - one would leave ESD with a Regent and return with something looking like the Nebuchadnezzar from Matrix. lol That can't be good.
Nobody's saying that Starfleet would have kept the same designs forever, but at the same time they're unlikely to, in one go, completely change the design philosophy (shape, style), the technology used (warp etc, which effects the design philosophy) and the materials used to make it... that's far too risky to change in one go.
It's not that is risky for the imaginary Starfleet do to so, but it's very risky and bad for a game studio that bases a game on Star Trek and pays a liscence for the franchise to do so. They're making a Star Trek game. Star Trek is a well established franchise with 5 shows and 10+ movies spreading through almost 50 years of existence.
In that regard, if a game studio decides to drop the well established aesthetics of the franchise they represent - making any resemblance from the actual franchise minor, neglectible or hard to detect - they may as well shoot themselves in the head.
Star Trek exists as a TV franchise. So whatever game they make to bear the name has to resemble what people have seen on TV. If they depart too much from the well establiched aesthetics of Trek, then they've just lost all the draw to this game. Look at SW:ToR - it takes place 20.000 years before the movies. But still, they are aware that they can't mess with the basic principles and aesthetics of Star Wars that people have seen and come to love on the movies, Jedi are Jedi; Sith are Sith; they have lightsabers, use the Force, the places look like the ones in the movies, the technolgy, etc, etc...
If people were to command Starfleet ships that don't look even similar to anything people have seen and come to love on the shows - then they might as well go to a better implemented space sci-fi MMO like EVE, or jump ship to some of the newer space sci-fi MMOs that are being released in the near future like ED or SC.
Both of these ships are equally as ugly as sin ... but for different reasons.
I wouldn't be interested in owning and playing either of those ships unless they were ridiculously overpowered (making it silly NOT to use that ship in the game).
Sorry, but I'll stick to the new Intrepid/Voyager when it comes out or the Constellation(Picard's Stargazer) if it ever shows up. Since this game is STAR TREK Online I come here mainly to play ships that I saw on the shows and not random Sci-Fi ships inspired by Trek.
Fair enough, I can certainly understand where you're comming from, being a person that still uses a Galaxy Class despite everything.
In fact, that's a big part of what I'm discussing here in this thread - that people come here to play a Star Trek game and it would be silly if that game looked nothing like what they expect from Star Trek.
The main reason I made the comparison between those 2 ships I linked was to tell Cryptic that if they're hell-bent on implementing new designs of their own for T6, then they need to think about what something comming from Star Trek is suposed to look like.
If you ask me personally, I'd prefer to upgrade my canon T5 ships to be equal with the T6, regardless of price. I still want to command my Galaxy, B'rel or K'tinga at end-game in the same weightclass as any end-game ship.
I really don't think that's the case here. I think it's more of somekind of designer's block they're experiencing ocassionaly. If they really hated Trek, then their Klingon and Romulan designs would suck terribly, but they don't. They've got Klingon ships so spot on that I used the same ships in the KDF's 2 years of ship drought and never got bored with the ships I had. They're just that awesome. They've hit this same creative lull on some Romulan ships as well (all the Ha' variants), but pulled back amazingly with a design like the Veteran Daeinos.
I think it's more prominent on Starfleet ships because they make much more of them and they already have much more of them, so I get the feeling the designers get lost with what to do at certain times.
I don't think the ship designers make fugly ships on purpose. That would make no sense. For ex. I'm a fan of some of JamJamz's work - I absolutely love the Kumaris. The Tempest is spot on for a Starfleet ship, just the refreshment in the "new century" lineup that was needed, I'm a huge huge fan of that design. The Regent is also a very solid and Starfleet looking design if you neglect that the saucer looks a bit unfinished from the underside. Still as a design concept, it passes with very good grades. The Avenger while looking too blocky for my taste and having weird proportions (in my opinion), still looks like a Starfleet ship enough - especially if you consider they very going with a Vengeance knock-off, the black hull option is a dead giveaway. I hate that option.
The DSDs on the other hand.....are a different story. It looks like they've tried to follow some basic design elements, but changed them so horribly wrong that resulted in this abomination in an attempt to mesh Dyson with Starfleet tech. And that's a part of what worries me in regard to the T6 ships. Someone mentioned that they look that way because it's yet another mesh between Starfleet and some "alien" technology. I really hope this is just a misinformation. Because if it's true, that it's a beginning of a pattern in STO, a pattern that won't end well. That would mean they're literally turning the Federation into Borg - we go to someplace, encounter alien life and technology and then literally assimilate the technolgoy to a degree when Starfleet ships don't look Starfleet anymore.
If that continues, at the end of this game sometime in the future, when we'd have circumnavigated the galaxy - one would leave ESD with a Regent and return with something looking like the Nebuchadnezzar from Matrix. lol That can't be good.
...
I agree, partially.
But their writers block goes for 4 years with some exceptions.
Yeah you're right the Regent and the Tempest are good designs and JamJamz did a awesome job with it.
But on the other hand i really miss more rounded, wide and elegant shapes in Cryptics designs.
I'm also not a Avenger Class hater (unlike some may think) i simply think that it needs a alternative (wide, Envoy like) saucer to complete the bulky and muscular design. So i'd actually say i like the Avenger if it where made more consistent to its own premise.
I'm all with you about the adaption of alien tech in Starfleet designs. It's clearly the wrong direction IMO.
To be honest i don't know what to think about Cryptics previous Starfleet ship designs (prior to the regent).
Maybe i'm just disappointed that they don't create more Galaxy like designs.
Instead they soley keep on creating Intrepid and Sovereign variations. Especially a game that gives us so much options to modify our ships, no released ship (except GCS variant) offers an option to make it wide, majestic organic and elegant looking. Instead we only get the Sovereigns "racing car" style.
Perpetuals Excalibur would have been the only true continuation of the GCS style, and give us maybe a ship that doesn't suck. (sry for that expression)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
What we have seen recently is lack options on ships. Avemnger has no alt skin. just a verson that has the nacelles in traditional position or intrepid postion. Heck even the Ambassador only has a nacelle changed between the two versions. Yet many older designs had at least three skin choices. THAT is what Cryptic needs to go back to. and a start is in these areas. Avenger gets a New orelans skin, Ambassador Niagra skin. Ktinga to be able to mix up the 3 models since right now you can't.
I'm also not a Avenger Class hater (unlike some may think) i simply think that it needs a alternative (wide, Envoy like) saucer to complete the bulky and muscular design. So i'd actually say i like the Avenger if it where made more consistent to its own premise.
I'd like the Avenger if they stopped with the awful forward sweep pylons.
I'd like the Avenger if they stopped with the awful forward sweep pylons.
Funny, that's one of the very few things i like about some ships. In fact, i would love to have the Odyssey to have the option to get forward facing pylons. It wouldn't look so artificially elongated. But that just personal taste IMO.
I wonder, why they just can't add both options to most ships, that can't be much work IMO. (similar like the Star Cruisers pylons options, every facing made availlable.)
@admiralq1732
Agreed, the ship customizer (tailor) was one of my favourite elements in STO until they stopped creating options for ships. You can't experiment with the same limited elements for four years IMO.
In my opinion, it would already be enough, if they would add more different pylon options (just basic ones, no fancy holes or stuf like that) and more Saucer options (like more round or wide saucers) for some ships. (Avenger, Odyssey, for example)
There are two unused (in endgame) galaxy class saucers (envoy and celestial).
With a bit of improvement, those two saucers could be used on other ships, like the avenger (envoy saucer) or ambassador (celestial saucer).
It's a shame ppl didn't buy enough ship packs when STO was released, they'd rather run after the power creep. :mad:
Hopefully these new made ships will get some alternative appearances, unlike the Odyssey.
(I'm still waiting for SOME ship parts, even if it's only forward facing plylons and a alternative wide saucer)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Funny, that's one of the very few things i like about some ships. In fact, i would love to have the Odyssey to have the option to get forward facing pylons. It wouldn't look so artificially elongated. But that just personal taste IMO.
I wonder, why they just can't add both options to most ships, that can't be much work IMO. (similar like the Star Cruisers pylons options, every facing made availlable.)
@admiralq1732
Agreed, the ship customizer (tailor) was one of my favourite elements in STO until they stopped creating options for ships. You can't experiment with the same limited elements for four years IMO.
In my opinion, it would already be enough, if they would add more different pylon options (just basic ones, no fancy holes or stuf like that) and more Saucer options (like more round or wide saucers) for some ships. (Avenger, Odyssey, for example)
There are two unused (in endgame) galaxy class saucers (envoy and celestial).
With a bit of improvement, those two saucers could be used on other ships, like the avenger (envoy saucer) or ambassador (celestial saucer).
It's a shame ppl didn't buy enough ship packs when STO was released, they'd rather run after the power creep. :mad:
Hopefully these new made ships will get some alternative appearances, unlike the Odyssey.
(I'm still waiting for SOME ship parts, even if it's only forward facing plylons and a alternative wide saucer)
Dude i wouldn't mind if the Gal R could use the other galaxy skins. there's no reasons it shouldn't.
Again instead of messing with the crafting system which no one uses anymore how about FIXING the GAL R and other requests FIRST. THEN you can mess with the crafting system. THis is the key issues with Craptic. Yes they fully deserve that name till they can prove otherwise. You have customers and fans screaming about certain issues and you ignore them for stuff that they would consider low priority at best.
In regards the the Gal R. just making at least the commander's slot (though i prefer all) would fix the main issues with this ship. I have been a modder and have worked with modders. This could be done at most a day. boom you;re done and fix the graphical glitches and even more done but these are simple solutions that for some reason are ignored. heck you redid the patrol escort . giving it a universal slot and a rear firing dual turret. the Gal R fix i suggest would be easier then that.
opps thouight this was the galaxy thread but still applies here. Craptic. WE WANT CUSTOMIZATION. Especially on the ships look.
Like most of you, I don't like the new Cryptic designs. They're not what a trek ship is about, but I also really hated that Enterprise J ship shown in ST:ENT.
I think they need to go back a step and loose this Dyson sphere ethos they've imbedded into their designs. The hull colour and deflector dishes are my main bug bear with the designs. If we could change them, then I'd be happier with the looks.
Thing is, fed ships don't have much scope for design. They all have a similar design for cruisers, which let's face it, is the ships we most link with Star Trek. They need to look at the evolution past the Enterprise E and Akira's... The big F wasn't a great design in my opinion, but it has a more Star Trek feel.
These new T6 ships, so far, are not very fed. They do look like they came out of tron... The Romulan ships, Klingon ships, fine imo.
Makes me wonder a little if they're moving a little bit to fast towards the 29th century designs with no nacelles to be honest...
But it's really kinda hard to tell...the two fed ship images weren't nearly as well done as the KDF and RR ones.
I hope not. That would be really stupid and make no sense. There are still 4 centuries before the 29-th and it's pointless to expect that such radical design changes would occur 400 years earlier.
Besides, how many ships from the 29-th century have we seen? The Wells? How is that a tangible prrof that Starfleet changed the basic design principles? It's like looking only at the Defiant and saying that all Starfleet ships follow that design principle, without nacelles on pylons, etc...
Plus the Wells is not a regular ship, it was a timeship - so that could also result in it's design.
Now this looks all kinds of wrong to me. :eek: I'm sure there are people that'll like it as tastes vary, but personally I don't see anything reckognizably Starfleet in it.
But, it's not my intention to bash this still basic model here, I used it more in terms of comparison to what could a new T6 Starfleet ship look like and still be very Starfleet looking.
And then it hit me - how many people would like to have this one at T6 availible?
I know this concept was discussed quite a few times before, but I think it could be relevant to bring it up now since a new tier of ships is going to be released soon - the best part being, as far as I'm aware, Cryptic has the rights for the concept because it was part of the contest - similar to the way the Chimera made her way into STO.
Personally, I'd like them to make this ship at T6. It looks like a modern variation of TOS and I'm a big fan of the TOS hull materials and ship design. And I love that it manages to follow the classic flowing design pattern with a round saucer (oh, just how I prefer round saucers to chevrons!), neck, engineering hull and 2 nacelles. It just has that "special" Starfleet thing that I think the LV concept is lacking.
So what do people think? Would you like to have this, or something sufficiently similar at T6?
I would honestly be happy with both, one escort one cruiser :P We need to start looking at the future, and leaving some of the old designs behind, but fusing new with old. *cough Enterprise-J*
I would honestly be happy with both, one escort one cruiser :P We need to start looking at the future, and leaving some of the old designs behind, but fusing new with old. *cough Enterprise-J*
then you7 have no design concept. that ship is NOT a starfleet ship
I would honestly be happy with both, one escort one cruiser :P We need to start looking at the future, and leaving some of the old designs behind, but fusing new with old. *cough Enterprise-J*
The first ship looks too... flat and pointy. Given that it's a concept, I would hope that it would get better in the final version. Also, perhaps not the best perspective shot to get a sense of what it would really look like.
The original view we had of the Odyssey wasn't flattering either, but it turned out to look better in-game than it did in the pics.
The second is a thing of beauty... but not sure it's distinctive enough to be its own ship.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The first ship looks too... flat and pointy. Given that it's a concept, I would hope that it would get better in the final version. Also, perhaps not the best perspective shot to get a sense of what it would really look like.
The original view we had of the Odyssey wasn't flattering either, but it turned out to look better in-game than it did in the pics.
The second is a thing of beauty... but not sure it's distinctive enough to be its own ship.
Bluegeek the issue is the second ship actually looks like a fed ship. Cryptics latest designs DO NOT and that cocept is not even close. Heck i showed it to a friend of mine who workled on the Ultimate universe mod for Star trek Legacy and he couldn't beleive how ugly it was.
THAT IS THE ISSUE. Cryptics ship designers for some reason can't make a good looking fed ship. Heck my friend said change the buzzard color to proper red and it would work and i agree. THAT IS A STARFLEET SHIP
You're yelling at the wrong person. Bluegeek isn't a Cryptic or PWE employee. He's just a player like us who happens to moderate the forums.
Sorry but alot of us are tired of being ignored. The issue with Crytpic or more appropieatly craptic is they keep ignoring issues we bring up and either mess with a low priority issue like crafting or mess with something no one had an issue with. Doff area.
Sorry but alot of us are tired of being ignored. The issue with Crytpic or more appropieatly craptic is they keep ignoring issues we bring up and either mess with a low priority issue like crafting or mess with something no one had an issue with. Doff area.
And what does any of that have to do with yelling at someone who doesn't even work for the company?
Comments
KDF is a problem because they only design new when they have to. they are if it works don't fix it crowd. and odyessey was a fanmade ship not Cryptic design. thus they last 3 ships cryptic
Regent, Dyson ship, and Avenger. all freaking ugly and two of them without alt skins. While avenger is a good ship in performance she is UGLY. Please put the new orelans skin on that ship and i will switch it. Heck Give Ambassador niagra skin as well.
Ugh, absolutely agreed. To be honest, I've been kind of disgusted with cryptics designs as of late. While the star cruiser, Vesta, and odyssey were decent designs and look like they belong, they don't really have that trek feel. And the avenger absolutely doesn't belong. It looks like it was rushed out, and done by a novice. My 2 big problems with the odyssey have always been the proportiante size of the saucer to the hull, and the design of the nacelles and pylons. I think the saucer is so.ply too large wide compared to the rest of the ship, and the slopng pylons and curved nacelles don't really work for me. Not to mention the impulse engines buried inside the pylons.
For now, the T6 ship pictured reminds me a lot of a Constellation-class, with a smidgeon of Phoenix-class (Prometheus variant) due to the way the nacelle pylons are disposed. It's kind of hard to figure much else, since we have a lot of angles missing and don't see the side/top of the primary hull.
I do have the impression that the 'nose' may be a rather unsightly large deflector arrack. Can't explain the shape there otherwise. I kind of hope it's not like the Armitage's front; that's not a design language I'm eager to see perpetuated.
the only reason why the oddy doesnt went down the drain was because it was a fanbased ship. totally agree on this.
thats why id advise cryptic to alter fanbased designs rather than designing themselves.
i dont know why but they dont have the feeling for starfleet ships. (rom and kdf were VERY fitting, rom ship gives me goosebumps)
or they should take design advice.
i dont want to be personal in this or hurting feelings, but the designer MUST have missed some design lessons. design isnt just about drawing, but about having some "logical, engineering, correct, and buildable" feeling. those ships look inconclusive.
nacelles this flat cant bear any tech for warp. - if this ship doesnt use conventional warp anymore (dauntles/coaxial) - why have nacelles then?! (just one of those questions i would ask)
its like when you invented a nev hovercar, and would still build wheel houses - while it doesnt use wheels ...
just try to explain WHY this design is so ... inconclusive to me.
i just dont like cryptics endresults.
the blocky design of the avenger is basically total cool. it looks resilient.
BUT the damn saucer eggshape totally kills it. and that was an "on puropose" thing to differ it from connyt5 only. and thats what i hate.
i looked at that "fed" ship again:
its a constellation reboot. yes: CONSTELLATION. (it resebles one of those t3 variants, just look closer, even if it hurts)
and just to not make it look like the old stargazer, it was made OVERLY redesigned like on drugs. just to avoid similarity.
the reason i spoke about the kdf ship is, that somehow noone tried it there to "redesign so it doesnt look like vorcha".
so why do it with this stargazer reboot.? i dont get it. its buttugly just because this "intentionally redesign" just takes it to far.
i also hate those eggshaped saucers that stress the front section andm ake it imbalanced to the aft section. it looks "inbalanced" when you try to figure out the "center of mass" point. its to "arrow front" like. like agressive spearheads.
its just not starfleet.
id like to see those excalibur concepts rather.
(with some changes of course, flatten the neck section so it doesnt look TOOO neck-y)
I don't really get what's the issue Cryptics designers have with Starfleet ships. I just don't get it.
If they don't like them, why work on a STAR TREK game in the first place?
I mean STO isn't the only game around. Why is it so hard to employ some ppl. who actually like Trek and respect the IP?
What also bugs me is the lack of variation.
They use their own Starfleet style over and over again, as if ther never was anything else.
I mean, if some of their designs where good looking it wouldn't be so bad, but as soon as they try to create a ship from scratch its almost certain, it's going to be a clunky, deformed, "cool" (in the opinion of a five year old) looking ship.
What's even worse, they all follow the same pattern:
Weird proportions, super long nacelles, tongue -shaped saucer, bulky engineering hull and the most improper designed pylons possible, lol. (at least 2 of those "features" every Cryptic designed Starfleet ship of the last years has IMO)
For me it looks like they are not even trying to produce nice looking Starfleet ships, it looks like they where deliberately creating ugly stuff because they don't like Trek anyways.
Originally i thought they where trying to find a unique style, but lately it seems they just try to AVOID to creat nice looking ship for whatever reason. Personally i have given up trying to understand the motivation, i just want those experiments to end.
I'm sorry man, but i'd rather see perpetuals Excalibur than the Assault cruiser kitbash (Typhoon) or the plain ugly Jupiter.
(Just my personal preference.)
But i don't see a reason not to implement all those ships, at least they look way better than the tron-spade ship.
Cryptic already owns all those designs, i just can't understand why they don't use those already.
I know there are some who don't like them, but at least there are ppl who like them in the first place!
And yes, the new ships look again like fusion of (supposedly) Starfleet tech and tholian design. Why are Cryptics designers unable to create GOOD LOOKING STARFLEET ships for a change?
As shpoks already said, there are hundreds of really awesome ship designs made by fans. Why do Cryptics designers have to come up with abominations like this Tron- ship, the Avenger or the Dyson ships for example, instead of getting inspired by those designs?
Is that really all they can do?
I don't get it, sorry.
me neither. i dont get it. well said.
all their starfleet ships look like they come from sth else. tron, starwars ( science crusier t5 nacelles and shape look like the noobian cruiser from sw ep 1) or stargate or just highheels or male genitals. ( no reason to blurr this: the caitian carrier just looks this way o0)
it really seems thei either never got it, or are no real trek or starfleet fans.
their kdf and rom ship look great on the other hand. but its easier, they all resemble birds. pretty easy game then ^^
but what do starfleet ships resemble? i couldnt say. maybe this is it, what makes it so difficult? but otherwise: many many fans can design starfleetships (that dont look like kitbashes).
I suspect you're in the minority in this.
Most on STO are fans of the canon, otherwise there are, simply, better space-based MMO's out there.
Most don't mind changes, as long as it keeps the "feel" of ST. I'm not the biggest fan of the Dyson Science Destroyers, Vesta etc but they still FEEL like future trek ships. They feel like evolutions of what we have.
Nobody's saying that Starfleet would have kept the same designs forever, but at the same time they're unlikely to, in one go, completely change the design philosophy (shape, style), the technology used (warp etc, which effects the design philosophy) and the materials used to make it... that's far too risky to change in one go.
If T6 used some slightly bluey material with more blue lights, for example, but were clearly developments of the style, I'd accept that as a "we found new alloys that work well and want to use them in construction". If they were Starfleet coloured with a slowly morphing style (ie TNG->TOS->VOY->Late DS9/VOY etc) we could see where it was going...
The TRIBBLE they've put out for T6 so far, though, feels like someone's been watching too much Tron Legacy and sitting on Deviant Art posting concept pictures. They don't feel at all related to the T5 stuff... while the Romulan and Klingon ones do feel like developments of the canon, even if they're somewhat different.
Both of these ships are equally as ugly as sin ... but for different reasons.
I wouldn't be interested in owning and playing either of those ships unless they were ridiculously overpowered (making it silly NOT to use that ship in the game).
Sorry, but I'll stick to the new Intrepid/Voyager when it comes out or the Constellation(Picard's Stargazer) if it ever shows up. Since this game is STAR TREK Online I come here mainly to play ships that I saw on the shows and not random Sci-Fi ships inspired by Trek.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
I really don't think that's the case here. I think it's more of somekind of designer's block they're experiencing ocassionaly. If they really hated Trek, then their Klingon and Romulan designs would suck terribly, but they don't. They've got Klingon ships so spot on that I used the same ships in the KDF's 2 years of ship drought and never got bored with the ships I had. They're just that awesome.
I think it's more prominent on Starfleet ships because they make much more of them and they already have much more of them, so I get the feeling the designers get lost with what to do at certain times.
I don't think the ship designers make fugly ships on purpose. That would make no sense. For ex. I'm a fan of some of JamJamz's work - I absolutely love the Kumaris. The Tempest is spot on for a Starfleet ship, just the refreshment in the "new century" lineup that was needed, I'm a huge huge fan of that design. The Regent is also a very solid and Starfleet looking design if you neglect that the saucer looks a bit unfinished from the underside. Still as a design concept, it passes with very good grades. The Avenger while looking too blocky for my taste and having weird proportions (in my opinion), still looks like a Starfleet ship enough - especially if you consider they very going with a Vengeance knock-off, the black hull option is a dead giveaway. I hate that option.
The DSDs on the other hand.....are a different story. It looks like they've tried to follow some basic design elements, but changed them so horribly wrong that resulted in this abomination in an attempt to mesh Dyson with Starfleet tech. And that's a part of what worries me in regard to the T6 ships. Someone mentioned that they look that way because it's yet another mesh between Starfleet and some "alien" technology. I really hope this is just a misinformation. Because if it's true, that it's a beginning of a pattern in STO, a pattern that won't end well. That would mean they're literally turning the Federation into Borg - we go to someplace, encounter alien life and technology and then literally assimilate the technolgoy to a degree when Starfleet ships don't look Starfleet anymore.
If that continues, at the end of this game sometime in the future, when we'd have circumnavigated the galaxy - one would leave ESD with a Regent and return with something looking like the Nebuchadnezzar from Matrix. lol
It's not that is risky for the imaginary Starfleet do to so, but it's very risky and bad for a game studio that bases a game on Star Trek and pays a liscence for the franchise to do so. They're making a Star Trek game. Star Trek is a well established franchise with 5 shows and 10+ movies spreading through almost 50 years of existence.
In that regard, if a game studio decides to drop the well established aesthetics of the franchise they represent - making any resemblance from the actual franchise minor, neglectible or hard to detect - they may as well shoot themselves in the head.
Star Trek exists as a TV franchise. So whatever game they make to bear the name has to resemble what people have seen on TV. If they depart too much from the well establiched aesthetics of Trek, then they've just lost all the draw to this game. Look at SW:ToR - it takes place 20.000 years before the movies. But still, they are aware that they can't mess with the basic principles and aesthetics of Star Wars that people have seen and come to love on the movies, Jedi are Jedi; Sith are Sith; they have lightsabers, use the Force, the places look like the ones in the movies, the technolgy, etc, etc...
If people were to command Starfleet ships that don't look even similar to anything people have seen and come to love on the shows - then they might as well go to a better implemented space sci-fi MMO like EVE, or jump ship to some of the newer space sci-fi MMOs that are being released in the near future like ED or SC.
It's called "visual brand identity".
Not that I'm going to condemn the new design until I've seen it from a few more angles.
Fair enough, I can certainly understand where you're comming from, being a person that still uses a Galaxy Class despite everything.
In fact, that's a big part of what I'm discussing here in this thread - that people come here to play a Star Trek game and it would be silly if that game looked nothing like what they expect from Star Trek.
The main reason I made the comparison between those 2 ships I linked was to tell Cryptic that if they're hell-bent on implementing new designs of their own for T6, then they need to think about what something comming from Star Trek is suposed to look like.
If you ask me personally, I'd prefer to upgrade my canon T5 ships to be equal with the T6, regardless of price. I still want to command my Galaxy, B'rel or K'tinga at end-game in the same weightclass as any end-game ship.
But their writers block goes for 4 years with some exceptions.
Yeah you're right the Regent and the Tempest are good designs and JamJamz did a awesome job with it.
But on the other hand i really miss more rounded, wide and elegant shapes in Cryptics designs.
I'm also not a Avenger Class hater (unlike some may think) i simply think that it needs a alternative (wide, Envoy like) saucer to complete the bulky and muscular design. So i'd actually say i like the Avenger if it where made more consistent to its own premise.
I'm all with you about the adaption of alien tech in Starfleet designs. It's clearly the wrong direction IMO.
To be honest i don't know what to think about Cryptics previous Starfleet ship designs (prior to the regent).
Maybe i'm just disappointed that they don't create more Galaxy like designs.
Instead they soley keep on creating Intrepid and Sovereign variations. Especially a game that gives us so much options to modify our ships, no released ship (except GCS variant) offers an option to make it wide, majestic organic and elegant looking. Instead we only get the Sovereigns "racing car" style.
Perpetuals Excalibur would have been the only true continuation of the GCS style, and give us maybe a ship that doesn't suck. (sry for that expression)
I'd like the Avenger if they stopped with the awful forward sweep pylons.
But it's really kinda hard to tell...the two fed ship images weren't nearly as well done as the KDF and RR ones.
Funny, that's one of the very few things i like about some ships. In fact, i would love to have the Odyssey to have the option to get forward facing pylons. It wouldn't look so artificially elongated. But that just personal taste IMO.
I wonder, why they just can't add both options to most ships, that can't be much work IMO.
(similar like the Star Cruisers pylons options, every facing made availlable.)
@admiralq1732
Agreed, the ship customizer (tailor) was one of my favourite elements in STO until they stopped creating options for ships. You can't experiment with the same limited elements for four years IMO.
In my opinion, it would already be enough, if they would add more different pylon options (just basic ones, no fancy holes or stuf like that) and more Saucer options (like more round or wide saucers) for some ships. (Avenger, Odyssey, for example)
There are two unused (in endgame) galaxy class saucers (envoy and celestial).
With a bit of improvement, those two saucers could be used on other ships, like the avenger (envoy saucer) or ambassador (celestial saucer).
It's a shame ppl didn't buy enough ship packs when STO was released, they'd rather run after the power creep. :mad:
Hopefully these new made ships will get some alternative appearances, unlike the Odyssey.
(I'm still waiting for SOME ship parts, even if it's only forward facing plylons and a alternative wide saucer)
Dude i wouldn't mind if the Gal R could use the other galaxy skins. there's no reasons it shouldn't.
Again instead of messing with the crafting system which no one uses anymore how about FIXING the GAL R and other requests FIRST. THEN you can mess with the crafting system. THis is the key issues with Craptic. Yes they fully deserve that name till they can prove otherwise. You have customers and fans screaming about certain issues and you ignore them for stuff that they would consider low priority at best.
In regards the the Gal R. just making at least the commander's slot (though i prefer all) would fix the main issues with this ship. I have been a modder and have worked with modders. This could be done at most a day. boom you;re done and fix the graphical glitches and even more done but these are simple solutions that for some reason are ignored. heck you redid the patrol escort . giving it a universal slot and a rear firing dual turret. the Gal R fix i suggest would be easier then that.
opps thouight this was the galaxy thread but still applies here. Craptic. WE WANT CUSTOMIZATION. Especially on the ships look.
I think they need to go back a step and loose this Dyson sphere ethos they've imbedded into their designs. The hull colour and deflector dishes are my main bug bear with the designs. If we could change them, then I'd be happier with the looks.
Thing is, fed ships don't have much scope for design. They all have a similar design for cruisers, which let's face it, is the ships we most link with Star Trek. They need to look at the evolution past the Enterprise E and Akira's... The big F wasn't a great design in my opinion, but it has a more Star Trek feel.
These new T6 ships, so far, are not very fed. They do look like they came out of tron... The Romulan ships, Klingon ships, fine imo.
Just my two cents.
Eeew! That neon thingy looks lile something out of the Dyckers VR (Saints Row 3). Again, eew!
Now that's a Star Trek ship!
I hope not. That would be really stupid and make no sense. There are still 4 centuries before the 29-th and it's pointless to expect that such radical design changes would occur 400 years earlier.
Besides, how many ships from the 29-th century have we seen? The Wells? How is that a tangible prrof that Starfleet changed the basic design principles? It's like looking only at the Defiant and saying that all Starfleet ships follow that design principle, without nacelles on pylons, etc...
Plus the Wells is not a regular ship, it was a timeship - so that could also result in it's design.
Bless you, sir. I also happen to think that it's the ugliest thing to ever brace Star Trek.
then you7 have no design concept. that ship is NOT a starfleet ship
......
You did this on purpose, didn't you?!? :P
The first ship looks too... flat and pointy. Given that it's a concept, I would hope that it would get better in the final version. Also, perhaps not the best perspective shot to get a sense of what it would really look like.
The original view we had of the Odyssey wasn't flattering either, but it turned out to look better in-game than it did in the pics.
The second is a thing of beauty... but not sure it's distinctive enough to be its own ship.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Bluegeek the issue is the second ship actually looks like a fed ship. Cryptics latest designs DO NOT and that cocept is not even close. Heck i showed it to a friend of mine who workled on the Ultimate universe mod for Star trek Legacy and he couldn't beleive how ugly it was.
THAT IS THE ISSUE. Cryptics ship designers for some reason can't make a good looking fed ship. Heck my friend said change the buzzard color to proper red and it would work and i agree. THAT IS A STARFLEET SHIP
You're yelling at the wrong person. Bluegeek isn't a Cryptic or PWE employee. He's just a player like us who happens to moderate the forums.
Mine Trap Supporter
Sorry but alot of us are tired of being ignored. The issue with Crytpic or more appropieatly craptic is they keep ignoring issues we bring up and either mess with a low priority issue like crafting or mess with something no one had an issue with. Doff area.
And what does any of that have to do with yelling at someone who doesn't even work for the company?
Mine Trap Supporter
Being a moderator they become a representative of Cryptic.