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Say goodbye to the exchange!

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  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I cant see where your coming from with this thread, I cant see all that much has changed that will effect the market to that great a degree.
    much of the EC I have made on the exchange over the last few months is from selling crafting materials.
    sure these materials are no longer of use, all you can do with them is exchange them for the new crafting materials but there is nothing stopping people from selling these new materials, they are not bound in any way so after a few weeks when the values start to equalise it will be worth selling any you don't want or need as you did with the old ones.
    other then this nothing much has changed.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • jarfarujarfaru Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I wish i could sell the weapons we get from rep. system that i have piled up in my bank.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    yeah, as a kneejerk liberal I'm not going to get drawn much further into this.

    for me next gen is trek, especially the socialisty wisty preachy stuff.


    Look back at when Sisko goes to Earth. The way it seemed to me there was plenty for all. Of course there were way way less people than we have. I really think that Sisko's Creole restaurant was completely free. They didn't discuss the situation where more people wanted to get in than there were seats. But they could simply give an allotment of 1 visit per month or something.

    People do stuff as Picard preached because they have a passion for it.

    Aside from that it seems a meritocricy. Picard has nicer junk in his quarters because he worked very hard and became captain. These are very minor things mostly gifts anyway. When someone goes off for extended vacations or to school like Wesley, they take that one tiny cylindrical bag to hold all their worldly possessions.

    Nothing to do with politics. Trust me people call me a commie all the time... the thing is a perfect Utopian Communism like they show in some of the trek episodes. Is simply not possible ever. No matter what people are always going to need a way to barter goods and services. Don't get me wrong the idea of a gov controlled currency used to enforce class systems ect is barbaric. Our own system isn't in anyway perfect. Still there needs to be some form of currency. The ferengi had it right using something that had universal value and was unreplicable. Our govs got off those forms of currency for a reason. I'll leave it there though... I'll let Mr. Alfred Matthew Yankovic sing about Aluminum foil hats. :)

    The whole communism we do it cause we love each other stuff... is nice in theory. I just wish Trek had done something more realistic. Cause there is a system 90% to that, which IS very possible and sustainable. Perhaps simply showing something pie in the sky was more palatable to people then a system that in fact looked doable. I could just imagine Sisko explaining a bit coin style currency freaking people out. lmao
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • walshicuswalshicus Member Posts: 1,314 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Trust me people call me a commie all the time... the thing is a perfect Utopian Communism like they show in some of the trek episodes. Is simply not possible ever.
    Of course it is. The economics of today have absolutely no meaning in a society which is post-scarcity in nearly everything. Currency as we know it has no place when everyone can produce (almost) anything for free.

    There is no unemployment in the Federation because there is no conventional employment. People work because they want to work, and everything they don't want to do is automated anyway.


    Perhaps you have units of account that facilitate transfers of things like property or land between private citizens, but it's use would be so limited as to be - again - meaningless.
    http://mmo-economics.com - analysing the economic interactions in MMOs.
  • innuwarriorinnuwarrior Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I don't know about the exchange being in danger, but the reduction of value of most items certainly will have an influence on exchange pricing. The new way to make EC now will be with crafting material or with the selling of crafted items.

    From what I gathered from fleetmates and different channels nobody likes it. Loot price is ridiculous and they will not make me believe its make equipements more availlable from vendors because frankly, it was cheaper to get low quality items from exchange and that will probably not change.

    So what is the logic behind it, why did they do it? Seems to me that those with money will still be able to get tons of EC selling keys, getting lobi from boxes and sell what they can on exchange from the boxes and lobi store. They can also convert zen to dill and fast track the new crafting system to make high quality items again to get EC fast. Meanwhile, Joe F2P or those with little means to get Zen will have a hard time stacking EC to buy stuff.

    All this wall of text to say Craptic did it to get more $ from our pockets, I don't see any other reasons for the change, there may be other reasons but to me it all about $ and how much they can squeeze out of our pocket. That will only widen the gap between casual players and hardcore gamers. Star Citizen is looking more and more appealing to me everyday with that kind of TRIBBLE.
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  • seathemacseathemac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Seems to me that those with money will still be able to get tons of EC selling keys, getting lobi from boxes and sell what they can on exchange from the boxes and lobi store.

    Good post, but where are the ECs going to come from to buy the keys and lobi store items?
    People buy keys for ECs because they can't afford to do so with Zen, so they grind out the loot missions and sell the rewards.
    Since this patch I don't know anyone who has had a valuable loot drop, not one.
    It's all been trash.

    With this latest nerf to EC, keys will have to drop to under a million for them to be as affordable as they were last week. If that happens then the guys putting real money in won't see it as worth their while.

    I did it myself last month to get my fleet Dhelan. Bought keys for real money, sold them for three million EC each and bought the fleet ship modules I needed. If it was going to cost 3 times as much cash to get the same EC I'd never have done it.

    I've seen some really stupid things introduced into this game over the years but completely devaluing the main virtual currency is by far the stupidest.
    They really haven't thought this through. They are going to lose a lot of players because the payoff doesn't justify the grind and they are going to lose a ton of money because the gear per buck ratio has been slashed.

    A friend of mine has dropped around $700 into this game up to now, he's done with it because he is sick of being progressively more and more shafted with every patch.
    Personally I've spent around $250 and I am teetering on the edge of giving the whole thing the bird. The rewards simply aren't good enough anymore.
  • innuwarriorinnuwarrior Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    seathemac wrote: »
    A friend of mine has dropped around $700 into this game up to now, he's done with it because he is sick of being progressively more and more shafted with every patch.
    Personally I've spent around $250 and I am teetering on the edge of giving the whole thing the bird. The rewards simply aren't good enough anymore.

    Personally I've spend a lot of money, but mostly to get ships I want, diverse slots (bank, doffs, boffs, etc) or lobi for space stuf and ships. Not anymore, as you say sick of being shafted with every patch. Now I pay for everything with what I can get free from game, nothing else. Now that loot has been nerfed, the price of course, I'll get by with what I have now.
    Jamal : Tactical space specialist. USS Bug Warrior and many others
    E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
    Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
    Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
  • groomofweirdgroomofweird Member Posts: 1,045 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I just wish I had more than one toon when I first started playing, back then it was 1.2 mil for a key, I could easily get enough ec on one toon to get a key in a day. now it takes allot more work amongst several toons (in amongst my usual grinds for fc, dil, rep and so on and so on) to get a key, which as we all know is largely a pointless endeavour unless you like doffpacks lol.
    Back when I first started out spending that ec on a key didn't seem so bad at all now its just brutal in comparison.
    Im under no illusion of the general increases in prices in the game and the reasons why but that doesn't make it any less painful now.
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    "If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    The vast majority of EC in circulation is from the sale of unwanted Engines, Deflectors, Shields and Warp cores.


    I'll have to disagree with this statement.

    Why would you disagree, how else does Vast EC's get into circulation? Well there is the Tour, so yes tons got there this way, new/old player's coming in generating EC's, so more there I suppose, doff missions creating some, so yes here to, so other than these listed, where else would they come from other than loot?
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  • umbergreyumbergrey Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    In addition to selling crafting materials, as others have mentioned, I have also found a good market for the gear I am crafting as I work my way up. Not ridiculous prices, but enough that, even with me buying crafting materials off the exchange to make the item, I am turning a sizable profit.

    In other words, calm down, breath, the change is like a week old. I see no cause to panic.
  • jornadojornado Member Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What it does seem to have meant is that a lot less people seem to be choosing "need" in PUGs, or even bothering to loot.....I have filled my inventory on every single STF I have run since 9.5 - even in Azure, home of the nubbiest of the nubs no one is choosing need. It got to the point that I dropped Zen for an inventory upgrade in the middle of an Azure run, choosing greed the whole time.

    If people won't bother with shopfood at the lower prices, fine by me - I don't mind a vendor trip after each run.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
  • airborne2506airborne2506 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    DEV's put the fraking EC back to where is was on the Engines, Deflectors & Shields please!

    Thank you,
    -AB
  • foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Well... keeping an eye on prices helps. Its currently around 158 or so DL for 1 Zen.
    Back before the last DL explosion, you could get about 100 Zen or so just with a single day's worth of refined DL. As I'm a straight F2P player now... I gotta keep an eye on the DL Exchange if I want the shiny.

    Heck that's still low.


    I remember when the rate was 300-1.

    That was ridiculous.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,463 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Do you personally feel you need more EC?

    The solution is easy. If you can't learn to trade for a profit, you can just grind for it.

    Step 1) Grind dil.

    Step 2) Convert the dil into zen

    Step 3) spend the zen on lockbox keys or something else you can sell for EC.

    Its as easy as that!

    Actually it is not.

    Although there will be a lagging period due to the large amounts of EC already in the system, these changes have severely hampered the ability of the largest group of players (the casual players) to gather EC.

    As a result fewer people will start buying keys from the exchange and bye bye to your "easy" EC.

    Cutting the prices of gear with no less than 70% is a deathblow. A 30-40% cut would have hurt as well, but i get the feeling the devs made a (not so) little boo boo with this reduction.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • l30p4rdl30p4rd Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    questerius wrote: »
    Actually it is not.

    Although there will be a lagging period due to the large amounts of EC already in the system, these changes have severely hampered the ability of the largest group of players (the casual players) to gather EC.

    As a result fewer people will start buying keys from the exchange and bye bye to your "easy" EC.

    Cutting the prices of gear with no less than 70% is a deathblow. A 30-40% cut would have hurt as well, but i get the feeling the devs made a (not so) little boo boo with this reduction.

    Or people like me with an account full of EC, Lobi and Dilith just dont play any more because we are sick of playing a Star Trek THEMED game.

    They really need to change the advertising for this game because it is not as they advertise !
    We as consumers need to get consumer rights toward these companies like on the high street. They want to treat us like we just walked in off the street then we need our rights protected, the way it stands now is we have no rights not one nada and the company is holding all the cards, this would get your business shut down on the high street !

    I predict (did this in another MMO the patterns are identical) a steady rise in goldsellers in this game and a steady rise of players using them ! And guess who has the biggest stake in the gold selling market ......... !

    loose, loose for the player.
  • l30p4rdl30p4rd Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Think of the noobs who only spend $10 and leave.


    This is the desired effect though, the company HAS said this is the model they want, vets go f*** yourselves !
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    questerius wrote: »
    Although there will be a lagging period due to the large amounts of EC already in the system, these changes have severely hampered the ability of the largest group of players (the casual players) to gather EC.
    Don't be silly. The ability of players to "gather" EC hasn't really changed much at all, and debasing the currency with reams of vendortrash actually continually erodes the worth of EC and fuels the inflation. If you gather your money by vendortrashing, this inflation hurts, as it requires more and more vendortrash to afford the nice things.

    Clearly, no one who's ever going to make any serious amounts of money is going to get anywhere in life with vendortrash. The best source of money for the random player is, as it always was, the sale of things like lockbox keys, good purples, and Catfood on the Exchange. They will farm these items the way they always have: By beating up on the various loot pinatas of the game until something good drops.

    This changes nothing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • valenn1valenn1 Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Making good EC is still easy enough, making absurd sums of money with vendortrash farming: not anymore.
    Which is good.
    Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
    unfortunately:

    NOT LOYAL ENOUGH!!!
  • seathemacseathemac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    questerius wrote: »
    Actually it is not.

    Although there will be a lagging period due to the large amounts of EC already in the system, these changes have severely hampered the ability of the largest group of players (the casual players) to gather EC.

    As a result fewer people will start buying keys from the exchange and bye bye to your "easy" EC.

    Cutting the prices of gear with no less than 70% is a deathblow. A 30-40% cut would have hurt as well, but i get the feeling the devs made a (not so) little boo boo with this reduction.

    I agree, I'm already seeing a BIG slow down in activity on the exchange, especially with higher value items. They simply aren't shifting.
    To put it in context, in the five days before 9.5 went live I made around 10m EC through grinding, in the 5 days since release I've made less than 2.
    I grind a lot and if I can't afford to buy stuff then nobody can afford to buy my stuff.
    The exchange is in serious trouble and it's either by catastrophically bad judgement or design.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    This thread is priceless.

    For months/years these people have been whining about the economy's runaway inflation and demanding Cryptic do something to curb it, so when Cryptic responds and implements a way of reducing the flow of EC into the economy the same whiners are now pissed off because Cryptic listened and acted on their complaints.

    Too damn funny. :P
    I know, it's hilarious. :D
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  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    seathemac wrote: »
    I agree, I'm already seeing a BIG slow down in activity on the exchange, especially with higher value items.
    Well, I've seen a big slowdown in the Exchange, period. The thing LAGS REALLY BAD. This certainly dampens the enthusiasm of people on the Exchange, when it simply does not work very well.
    seathemac wrote: »
    They simply aren't shifting.

    To put it in context, in the five days before 9.5 went live I made around 10m EC through grinding, in the 5 days since release I've made less than 2.
    I grind a lot and if I can't afford to buy stuff then nobody can afford to buy my stuff.
    Have you considered that perhaps your prices are too high or that you are out of tune with what the market is presently looking for? I have had no trouble selling things on the Exchange, but I'm peddling Research Lab Scis. Perhaps you should lower your prices if you want things to sell.
    seathemac wrote: »
    The exchange is in serious trouble and it's either by catastrophically bad judgement or design.
    I wouldn't say that. Aside from the horrendous lag, the Exchange is fine. Supply and demand. The demand is in crafting goods right now.
    For months/years these people have been whining about the economy's runaway inflation and demanding Cryptic do something to curb it, so when Cryptic responds and implements a way of reducing the flow of EC into the economy the same whiners are now pissed off because Cryptic listened and acted on their complaints.
    I like the one where people complain about the high prices on the Exchange, then complain when those prices fall and they cannot sell things for the outlandish prices they used to.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    This thread is priceless.

    For months/years these people have been whining about the economy's runaway inflation and demanding Cryptic do something to curb it, so when Cryptic responds and implements a way of reducing the flow of EC into the economy the same whiners are now pissed off because Cryptic listened and acted on their complaints.

    Too damn funny. :P
    How do you know?
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    seathemac wrote: »
    It's about to go belly up and here's why.

    Every single energy credit in every single account originated from selling/discarding unwanted trash or a duty officer assignment reward.
    There is no other source of EC in the game.
    The vast majority of EC in circulation is from the sale of unwanted Engines, Deflectors, Shields and Warp cores.
    Now that these have been devalued so drastically there's going to be far less EC being injected into the system and the paltry increase in the value of weapons with this patch won't take up the slack.
    Conversely, the rate of valuable loot drops (stuff that people actually want) has dried up to a trickle.
    Anyone that gets that 1 in a million Mk XI purple phaser relay from a Gorn Minefield run wants a lot of EC for it naturally because it's so rare (6 Million EC last time I looked).

    So we have rampant inflation due to scarcity and stringent cuts in rates of income.
    With every patch and update players are having their EC income throttled and seeing the gear they need to play the game properly become more and more unattainable.

    Cryptic are either very short sighted or deliberately trying to kill off EC as an in-game currency.
    Either way the exchange is doomed if it continues as it is.

    I was thinking the exact same thing. Damn, I should have grinded for those Lolnuts and sold them all before the event ended...
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  • seathemacseathemac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Because I've been reading threads for 4 1/2 years and I recognize names and it isn't hard to remember if they liked or disliked something after the 100th time they've repeated themselves.

    And I bet you have trolled every single one.
    The original post wasn't about inflation or deflation, whether the reduction in EC is reflected in dropped prices or not is yet to be seen, I doubt it personally.
    If the drops of these desirable shinies were more frequent then the supply would be greater, that would force the price down.
    This change just means less people will be able to afford them.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    This is an interesting way to combat EC inflation I suppose. Cutting all item values by around 66% will indeed slow down the influx of ECS into the economy. However, it really does not do anything about the EC that is already in the economy. There are no sinks that removes EC from the game itself... at least none of any significance that I am aware of.

    EC is still flowing into the economy the only difference is that inflation has slowed down. I have not been keeping an eye on the Exchange, but I would say that overall, there is probably not much of an impact yet. People who have lots of ECs can still buy whatever they want, but I think things will slow down later on a people continues to buy things off of the Exchange at relatively high prices so a long as they believe they are "rich" in the game.

    Once people's EC account starts to fall though it can cause transactions to slow down since people need to wait longer to replenish their EC funds. To counter sellers may start to lower their prices so that they can maintain a decent turn around rate to list newer items on the Exchange. People can only list 40 items for sale on the Exchange so if nothing sells they cannot list any other loot they have gotten on the Exchange, unless they reduce prices to entice people to buy or they remove one of the 40 items to that a new item can be listed.

    It would be nice if prices can come down a bit on the Exchange to make things more affordable. I would certain welcome the opportunity to purchase a Plasmonic Leech for say 20 million EC instead of 30 million EC.

    For now I will keep an eye out on the Exchange from time to time. Maybe I should start selling the 33 master keys that I have been collecting for 1.9 million to 2.1 million EC before prices start to fall on the Exchange...

    In the end EC is not being removed from the game, it is only being moved around between players.
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