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New Xindi Traits

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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    nulonu wrote: »
    Hmm I don't know. It sounds OP on paper but then, a few tacs on a side with cry and your getting +210% severity from it for the whole team. Meh. Nothing surprises me in this game anymore.

    LOL, oh I can see it now, whole team does running drop kicks to enemy boss, each inflicting some 5k in damage each.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    The tooltip lies. Welcome to typos online.

    It actually goes beyond that with regard to Pattern Recognition, and I really wish somebody could answer something regarding it...cause...it's throwing me for a little loop, meh.

    From the blog:

    "Pattern Recognition: Each stack grants +2% Defense and +2% Hardened Shields"

    From the Item Information right-clicking it on the Exchange:

    "Pattern Recognition - Trait
    While in combat, your ability to defend against enemy starships will gradually improve, represented by an increase in defense and shield hardness. This bonus will be lost when combat ends. Each stack of Pattern Recognition (up to 4 max) grants:
    +2.5% Defense
    +1.25% Shield Resilience"

    So yeah, there might be the focus on the +2% vs. +1.25%...but what actually caught my eye, and thus the reason that I created another thread asking about it was not the +2% vs. +1.25%; but rather the "hardened/hardness" vs. "resilience" - because they're two different things as presented elsewhere.

    Hardened/Hardness is presented as an increase in Shield Damage Reduction while Resilience is presented as a decrease in Shield Penetration/Bleedthrough.

    So is this trait actually providing a boost to Shield Damage Reduction or is the trait providing a boost reducing the amount of Shield Penetration/Bleedthrough?

    To be honest, I didn't even notice the hardened/hardness part - cause I just skimmed the blog and I didn't read the paragraph in the Item Information. I just saw the +1.25% Shield Resilience bit. And a reduction to Shield Penetration (along with Defense) appeared to be the counter to the other trait, Intense Focus...which provides a boost to Accuracy and Shield Penetration. +Acc/+Bleed vs. +Def/-Bleed...seem like a good mirror-like pairing, right?

    But then there's the hardened/hardness part in the blog and in the paragraph for the Item Information...which would be something else - with the term Shield Hardness appearing in the info for the Nanoprobe Field Generator trait which provides increased Shield Damage Reduction.

    So uh...just what does Pattern Recognition actually provide there, eh?

    edit: Then again, to make this more fun (and complicated) - the Penetration...is it actually Penetration or is it Penetration? Cause the [Pen] mod on weapons is not increased bleed, it's an inline reduction to Hull Damage Resistance. So that's something that they're using the same term to mean more than one thing. So perhaps the Pattern Recognition is an increase in Shield Damage Reduction while Intense Focus is a decrease in Shield Damage Reduction, eh? Really wish they'd only use each term to reflect a single thing, meh.
  • zeratkzeratk Member Posts: 409
    edited July 2014
    It actually goes beyond that with regard to Pattern Recognition, and I really wish somebody could answer something regarding it...cause...Cryptic is playing loose with terminology, meh.

    From the blog:

    "Pattern Recognition: Each stack grants +2% Defense and +2% Hardened Shields"

    From the Item Information right-clicking it on the Exchange:

    "Pattern Recognition - Trait
    While in combat, your ability to defend against enemy starships will gradually improve, represented by an increase in defense and shield hardness. This bonus will be lost when combat ends. Each stack of Pattern Recognition (up to 4 max) grants:
    +2.5% Defense
    +1.25% Shield Resilience"

    So yeah, there might be the focus on the +2% vs. +1.25%...but what actually caught my eye, and thus the reason that I created another thread asking about it was not the +2% vs. +1.25%; but rather the "hardened/hardness" vs. "resilience" - because they're two different things as presented elsewhere.

    Hardened/Hardness is presented as an increase in Shield Damage Reduction while Resilience is presented as a decrease in Shield Penetration/Bleedthrough.

    So is this trait actually providing a boost to Shield Damage Reduction or is the trait providing a boost reducing the amount of Shield Penetration/Bleedthrough?

    To be honest, I didn't even notice the hardened/hardness part - cause I just skimmed the blog and I didn't read the paragraph in the Item Information. I just saw the +1.25% Shield Resilience bit. And a reduction to Shield Penetration (along with Defense) appeared to be the counter to the other trait, Intense Focus...which provides a boost to Accuracy and Shield Penetration. +Acc/+Bleed vs. +Def/-Bleed...seem like a good mirror-like pairing, right?

    But then there's the hardened/hardness part in the blog and in the paragraph for the Item Information...which would be something else - with the term Shield Hardness appearing in the info for the Nanoprobe Field Generator trait which provides increased Shield Damage Reduction.

    So uh...just what does Pattern Recognition actually provide there, eh?

    edit: Then again, to make this more fun (and complicated) - the Penetration...is it actually Penetration or is it Penetration? Cause the [Pen] mod on weapons is not increased bleed, it's an inline reduction to Hull Damage Resistance. So that's something that they're using the same term to mean more than one thing. So perhaps the Pattern Recognition is an increase in Shield Damage Reduction while Intense Focus is a decrease in Shield Damage Reduction, eh? Really wish they'd only use each term to reflect a single thing, meh.

    clipped, it is a mess. :P
    This is Crypticverse... :mad:
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    zeratk wrote: »
    clipped, it is a mess. :P

    It's tough too, since it's dealing with shields - and - we can't view either of those stats; and with the damage variance that exists, you can't easily just plink-plink to tell.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    marc8219 wrote: »
    All of you people supporting this powercreep and rushing to buy this new lockbox stuff just are helping to destroy whats left of pvp. This new lockbox just goes to far, pvp and this game is now more of a joke then it is already.

    Only thing that will keep me in the game now is trolling everyone rushing to get the new stuff with a sci brel out of spite.

    I found your outcries hilarious, absolutely hilarious, especially coming from the same guy who uses all kinds of cheese imaginable in Kerrat, sporting a Romulan timeship + TIF and oh, in a full squadron of coordinated HOBO who spam AA all over the place and last but not least, had the audacity to name your ship as one my toon's name and call him TRIBBLE.

    QQ about power creep? Then don't use them yourself.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I don't find these traits to be OP at all, for that matter, I don't think they are very useful. The improvement offered is marginal and you need to stay in combat for a while, which is impractical for a lot of players. The biggest problem is which traits are you going to give up to slot these ones? Inspirational Leader? Helmsman? Biotech Patch? So no, my recommendation on those traits : SELL
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    iskandus wrote: »
    The biggest problem is which traits are you going to give up to slot these ones?

    Once the information is clearly available for the new traits, it would obviously depend on the build. They, like everything else in the game, are not going to be universally better or worse than anything else. It will all come down to the build.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    hajmyis wrote: »
    xindi BO trait

    Space: Impatient (Reduced Cooldowns on Tactical Bridge Officer Abilities)


    >< op BS

    Just paid 40 million ec for it on Exchange, unfortunately, it's bugged, not doing a thing in terms of Tactical BO abilities CD reduction. Checked the trait box, the said trait is checked off and said to be inactive.
  • lordcuttersladelordcutterslade Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    nulonu wrote: »
    It doesn't matter. That new kit power "motivation" is allowing critical CHANCE yes CHANCE to be at 100% with 100% uptime for the duration of tac ini and if more then one tac forget it. Motivation plus rally cry equals game just became total and complete bs on the ground. I could very possible be done at this point.

    Edit: oh yea motivation also heals you for the damage you deal while it's up, because 100% crit chance wasn't OP enough.


    Awesome trait!!

    This makes a lot of sense....having a Critical Hit chance of over 100%....
    I checkd mine earlier and it was at 106%....
    You can even get a crit chance of over 150% (Lunge + crit doffs, rally cry)
    so let's say that i'm shooting 10 times at a target and i will crit 15 times...awwwwesome^^
    [SIGPIC]Everything is awesome![/SIGPIC]
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    marc8219 wrote: »
    All of you people supporting this powercreep and rushing to buy this new lockbox stuff just are helping to destroy whats left of pvp. This new lockbox just goes to far, pvp and this game is now more of a joke then it is already.

    Only thing that will keep me in the game now is trolling everyone rushing to get the new stuff with a sci brel out of spite.

    Well, its quite a miracle that pvp lived so long, though multiple powercreeping addition and will outlive many more. I guess it will be the last section of sto which closes down.
    Not because its particularly good or so, but because (in my opinion) the average, real ("real")
    pvper is more stubborn than any elderly can get.
    And sometimes that might not be a bad trait^^



    But you know why they have to release such a bundle of powercreep? because A2B-Nerf threads popping out like nothing good, so when the nerf hits, everyone not able to adapt (e.g. normal pugs and...part of stubborn ppl^^) will land softly. So when the nerf hits, be sure to savior those seconds before you realize it never was a problem ;)
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited July 2014
    Short version:

    1) All of the Xindi Traits are under review. Yes, some of the tooltips are wonky. We'll fix them once we decide whether or not to change their functionality. Sorry about that.

    2) The Xindi Kit Modules have already undergone some tweaking, and more may soon follow.

    3) The Tactical Kit Module "Motivation," in particular, has already received the following adjustments internally, which will appear in a future patch:
    - Reduced max duration from 15sec to 10sec
    - Increased cooldown from 30sec to 45sec
    - Reduced healing threshhold (the max amount of healing it can do before expiring) by 33%.
    - No longer stacks when used by multiple teammates

    4) Deadly Intent has also received some tuning:
    - Max duration decreased from 15sec to 8sec, but may now be increased with the Special Forces skill.

    In other words:

    We're listening. We're tuning. What you see isn't always set-in-stone, or even working-as-intended/designed. We'd appreciate it if your feedback could keep that in mind, instead of so frequently jumping to the asinine conclusion that we're "purposefully trying to kill PvP" or otherwise out to somehow harm the playerbase upon which we rely.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • edited July 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Short version:

    1) All of the Xindi Traits are under review. Yes, some of the tooltips are wonky. We'll fix them once we decide whether or not to change their functionality. Sorry about that.

    Thanks, bort - my wee peabrain was in overload trying to make heads or tails of some of them there.
  • nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Short version:

    1) All of the Xindi Traits are under review. Yes, some of the tooltips are wonky. We'll fix them once we decide whether or not to change their functionality. Sorry about that.

    2) The Xindi Kit Modules have already undergone some tweaking, and more may soon follow.

    3) The Tactical Kit Module "Motivation," in particular, has already received the following adjustments internally, which will appear in a future patch:
    - Reduced max duration from 15sec to 10sec
    - Increased cooldown from 30sec to 45sec
    - Reduced healing threshhold (the max amount of healing it can do before expiring) by 33%.
    - No longer stacks when used by multiple teammates

    Who cares about the healing? What's lol ridiculous is a 100% critical chance when you can stack severity over 300%. Rally cry stacks. 5 tacs x 70% per equals 350% severity before any base a player may have. Was that not considered?
    4) Deadly Intent has also received some tuning:
    - Max duration decreased from 15sec to 8sec, but may now be increased with the Special Forces skill.

    In other words:

    We're listening. We're tuning. What you see isn't always set-in-stone, or even working-as-intended/designed. We'd appreciate it if your feedback could keep that in mind, instead of so frequently jumping to the asinine conclusion that we're "purposefully trying to kill PvP" or otherwise out to somehow harm the playerbase upon which we rely.

    It just seems more to me like the game is so saturated with power creep that when someone comes up with an idea for something new there's no control for how it will interact with things already in place. There aren't very many tactical kit abilities for example, so I'm a bit surprised that since rally cry does stack crit chance and severity that no one seems to have considered how a kit module pushing critical chance to over 100% would affect gameplay. Ground pvp is an unplayable mess with this power added. Simply a "who gets the shot off first game".
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Short version:

    1) All of the Xindi Traits are under review. Yes, some of the tooltips are wonky. We'll fix them once we decide whether or not to change their functionality. Sorry about that.

    2) The Xindi Kit Modules have already undergone some tweaking, and more may soon follow.

    3) The Tactical Kit Module "Motivation," in particular, has already received the following adjustments internally, which will appear in a future patch:
    - Reduced max duration from 15sec to 10sec
    - Increased cooldown from 30sec to 45sec
    - Reduced healing threshhold (the max amount of healing it can do before expiring) by 33%.
    - No longer stacks when used by multiple teammates

    4) Deadly Intent has also received some tuning:
    - Max duration decreased from 15sec to 8sec, but may now be increased with the Special Forces skill.

    In other words:

    We're listening. We're tuning. What you see isn't always set-in-stone, or even working-as-intended/designed. We'd appreciate it if your feedback could keep that in mind, instead of so frequently jumping to the asinine conclusion that we're "purposefully trying to kill PvP" or otherwise out to somehow harm the playerbase upon which we rely.

    So much for me being able to do ground optionals now. Was hoping with these new kit modules, I would be actually able to do ground. Oh well, PVP once again gets the nerfhammer going.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The problem with motivation is not the stack (is not stacking more than 100% useles?), the problem is the magnitud of the crit chance!! 100 is far too much, 80 is far too much, even 50, or 30 is far too much! Is a crit, it should be rare!
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The problem with motivation is not the stack (is not stacking more than 100% useles?), the problem is the magnitud of the crit chance!! 100 is far too much!! 80 is far too much!! Even 50, or 30 is far too much!! Is a crit, it should be rare!

    Why not just reduce effect vs players by 90% for it? Can't I have anything useful against the damn borg?
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Short version:

    1) All of the Xindi Traits are under review. Yes, some of the tooltips are wonky. We'll fix them once we decide whether or not to change their functionality. Sorry about that.

    2) The Xindi Kit Modules have already undergone some tweaking, and more may soon follow.

    3) The Tactical Kit Module "Motivation," in particular, has already received the following adjustments internally, which will appear in a future patch:
    - Reduced max duration from 15sec to 10sec
    - Increased cooldown from 30sec to 45sec
    - Reduced healing threshhold (the max amount of healing it can do before expiring) by 33%.
    - No longer stacks when used by multiple teammates

    4) Deadly Intent has also received some tuning:
    - Max duration decreased from 15sec to 8sec, but may now be increased with the Special Forces skill.

    In other words:

    We're listening. We're tuning. What you see isn't always set-in-stone, or even working-as-intended/designed. We'd appreciate it if your feedback could keep that in mind, instead of so frequently jumping to the asinine conclusion that we're "purposefully trying to kill PvP" or otherwise out to somehow harm the playerbase upon which we rely.


    glad to hear it. the tool tips in game for the space traits seem fine compared to what was in the blog, i would suggest making those the actual values if they aren't actually already. 4 stacks of 2% shield penetration or shield resistance is a down right giant increase stacked on top of everything else already pushing those things sky high. the 1.25 doesn't stack out of control to near the same degree, and are still plenty tempting to pick up.

    i think a big problem with this launch is that we only got the info dump the day of, and not a few days to a week before hand so we could point out problems. by the time we knew anything, it was too late so to speak. im glad things are going to get a pass, live or not.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    Why not just reduce effect vs players by 90% for it? Can't I have anything useful against the damn borg?


    Useful againts the damn borg? Yes, reed some guide and practice! There are teams ending infected optionals with just 3 players! Stfs are easy as hell already.
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Useful againts the damn borg? Yes, reed some guide and practice! There are teams ending infected optionals with just 3 players! Stfs are easy as hell already.

    Yeah, right. I do not believe you. Even with the Elite STFs channel, it took me weeks to get the damned optionals, and even than it was something by the seconds.

    But oh well, the 1% hyper-elite pay to win PVP crowd can synergise stuff to kill everything, so nobody else can get nice things.

    And now I need the material pack from elite grounds from crafting, or I'll have to pay millions for them on the auction house. Just great! :mad:

    I should have known it was foolish to hope that ground elites could become popular now. Oh well, hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment, and I naively forgot the PVP crowd and their whined Nerfhammer.

    At least i only bought the kits on one character. A waste of 1,5 million EC, but oh well.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    But oh well, the 1% hyper-elite pay to win PVP crowd can synergise stuff to kill everything, so nobody else can get nice things.

    How in hell are we a pay to win elite if we are asking for balance on the pay to win things? lol

    Anyway, what ever..
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    oh, and could we have some clarification on how the Momentum trait works? does the bonus work off your base like a turn console, or is it based on your 'final' turn rate?
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    How in hell are we a pay to win elite if we are asking for balance on the pay to win things? lol

    Anyway, what ever..

    Because you got all of the pay to win items, thus maintaining a superiority.

    But if one item gets better than the others, people with less money and time can get better at the game too, which is no doubt not what the elite wants.

    Mind, this suits Cryptic. If you want to be good, you have to buy all the exlcussive items, Lobi store and lockbox ones. Key sales are key sales, it is only logical.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited July 2014
    oh, and could we have some clarification on how the Momentum trait works? is the bonus that works off your base like that of a turn console, or is it based on your 'final' turn rate?

    Base. It's like a console with scaling effectiveness.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    Yeah, right. I do not believe you. Even with the Elite STFs channel, it took me weeks to get the damned optionals, and even than it was something by the seconds.

    But oh well, the 1% hyper-elite pay to win PVP crowd can synergise stuff to kill everything, so nobody else can get nice things.

    And now I need the material pack from elite grounds from crafting, or I'll have to pay millions for them on the auction house. Just great! :mad:

    I should have known it was foolish to hope that ground elites could become popular now. Oh well, hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment, and I naively forgot the PVP crowd and their whined Nerfhammer.

    At least i only bought the kits on one character. A waste of 1,5 million EC, but oh well.

    People have been getting all optionals on ground for years, way before any of this new stuff came out like kit modules and lockbox traits. Its not PVP's fault. Instead of complain about PVPers and blame them for everything you could actually try to ask for help instead, lots of people that can do ground easily here in this thread and elsewhere on the forums.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    marc8219 wrote: »
    People have been getting all optionals on ground for years, way before any of this new stuff came out like kit modules and lockbox traits. Its not PVP's fault. Instead of complain about PVPers and blame them for everything you could actually try to ask for help instead, lots of people that can do ground easily here in this thread and elsewhere on the forums.

    As nice as that is, I got a load of work, which pretty much limits my game time. And honestly, I think I'll rather spend it in TOR for ground combat, where your character is actually powerful, and has useful abilities (And the ui doesnt lag either) .

    Guess for crafting, farming space and selling the space purple mats by the bucketload for every single ground one will by my only option.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Base. It's like a console with scaling effectiveness.

    thanks for the clarification. so if it is 4 stacks of 10%, its about like another fleet turn console. not bad, not over the top for taking up a trait spot.
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Short version:

    1) All of the Xindi Traits are under review. Yes, some of the tooltips are wonky. We'll fix them once we decide whether or not to change their functionality. Sorry about that.

    2) The Xindi Kit Modules have already undergone some tweaking, and more may soon follow.

    3) The Tactical Kit Module "Motivation," in particular, has already received the following adjustments internally, which will appear in a future patch:
    - Reduced max duration from 15sec to 10sec
    - Increased cooldown from 30sec to 45sec
    - Reduced healing threshhold (the max amount of healing it can do before expiring) by 33%.
    - No longer stacks when used by multiple teammates

    4) Deadly Intent has also received some tuning:
    - Max duration decreased from 15sec to 8sec, but may now be increased with the Special Forces skill.

    In other words:

    We're listening. We're tuning. What you see isn't always set-in-stone, or even working-as-intended/designed. We'd appreciate it if your feedback could keep that in mind, instead of so frequently jumping to the asinine conclusion that we're "purposefully trying to kill PvP" or otherwise out to somehow harm the playerbase upon which we rely.

    Is it too much to ask to beta test stuff? That way I won't spend money on stuff that is getting the nerfbat? PLEASE? :mad:
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Bort why not just undo season 4's nerf to player Hit points and shield health? The damage dealt by ground captains is just way outpacing health available at this point and it would make the players having trouble Borg ground stfs more durable. Still need to seriously dial back motivation. I get that it's supposed to a be a similar alternative to rally cry but the two together are just lol! :P
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    Is it too much to ask to beta test stuff? That way I won't spend money on stuff that is getting the nerfbat? PLEASE? :mad:

    whoever scheduled info dump blogs should be let know that only releasing info as the season goes live leads to comments like this, and threads like 'omg they are trying to kill pvp', or whatever.
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