1. A focus on PVE grinding is nothing new for STO (I've been playing since a few weeks after the F2P update and the difference is merely that we have a bit more choice [realistically] than three elite space STF's)
2. A lot of the more recent "grind" content can be easily described as "intentionally replayable and with persistent rewards." Look at the ground battlezone, that's a fun and engaging place to be in which finally gives ground combat a place where it can function well. You can look at it as grinding, or you can look at it as simply playing the game as you would any online cooperative kill mode (this one just happens to be incorporated into an MMO.) You can probably make an exception for some of the event grinds (especially anything involving Q) but between surfing, jetpacks, and blasting dinosaurs with orbital disruptor strikes you merely have a situation that can be interpreted as "grinding", but also looked at as "gameplay" if you're not so keen on villifying MMO's for being MMO's.
personally I enjoy the event grinds, winter race was a blast, summer jet pack was cool, Crystalline Entity and mirror are great fun, the only one that was a bit lame was the q-anniversary.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
How many of you feel that STO is on the way out and won't be around for it's 10th ann. or even its 7th ??
The way thing are going in my eyes and my own POV. STO has 3 years at most.
Before PWE pulls the plug on STO.
Well what do you guys and gals think ??
Is STO on the way out? I would say its in decline, yes. Most MMOs typically start on a decline after 4 years. With STO, the problem is simple that there is no fun and it's all about one grind after another and people are at their limits. (Especially when new content only lasts a day. :rolleyes: )
Will STO be around in another 3 years and reach it's 7th Anniversary? I think there's a good possibility STO will still be around. Though who knows if it will be still in development at that point.
10 years? It's rare modern MMOs live that long. However, there are plenty of first generation MMOs still running. But afraid I personally don't see people staying long after STO stops development. The only thing left to do at that point would be making stories missions in the Foundry.
personally I enjoy the event grinds, winter race was a blast, summer jet pack was cool, Crystalline Entity and mirror are great fun, the only one that was a bit lame was the q-anniversary.
Well I did put jetpacks into the same category as nuking velociraptors from low orbit.
I didn't care much for the winter race but the gingerbread invasion was something else again. I just wish that was incorporated into the "main" grind since that was by far the most outstanding piece of winder holiday content they've shipped yet (I had to show the family the fight against the yeti, it was that "fundamentally appreciable.")
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This is the 1st and only MMO game I play; I started playing in Jan 2014.
To answer the OP's question about whether or not STO will still be around after 7 or 10 years, I have to ask a question. How many MMOs in existence today that has been around for 7 to 10 years? I'm not trying to be a smartass (at least not at this moment), but the only one I can think of is WoW.
So far, I enjoy playing STO, however, I have not been around when STO initially launched so I can't say if it has gotten better or worse. It's likely a little bit of both. The Duty Officer aspect of the game was not part of the initial release so I count that as "better". Season 6 added a fleet advancement system so I would say that is something that has made the game better.
On the other hand many players have stated the game has become more of a grind fest than it has been in the past. I have no opinion about that since that was before I started playing STO. The lack of any significant story missions to me is a step in the wrong direction. It seems recently each season has on released a "featured episode". I rather see a series of episodes that advances the story in STO, they can be used for a nice story arc every season. I would like to see at least 6 story missions every season.
If Cryptic can make more steps that moves the game forward than move the game backwards, then that would have a positive affect on the longevity of STO. Also as long as STO can attract more new player than loose current players, then that is also a step in the right direction.
Some MMOs make it obvious that it is going to die soon. Other MMOs come as a huge surprise when the game dies. City of Heroes had one of their Issues (Seasons) in Open Beta with about a couple of weeks before it hit the live servers when the Server Closing announcement was released. It caught everyone by surprise because it was completely unexpected. With STO, it will be the unexpected closure issued by PWE f the Servers close. MMO companies don't spend a ton of money on developing expansions when they know the servers are going to close soon.
That's NCSoft for you, they're like that. They did the same with Tabula Rasa. Still pissed about that actually.
To answer the OP's question about whether or not STO will still be around after 7 or 10 years, I have to ask a question. How many MMOs in existence today that has been around for 7 to 10 years? I'm not trying to be a smartass (at least not at this moment), but the only one I can think of is WoW.
Everquest, Guild Wars, and do note that Champions Online is still running despite being older than STO and thoroughly less well supported.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
On the other hand many players have stated the game has become more of a grind fest than it has been in the past. I have no opinion about that since that was before I started playing STO. The lack of any significant story missions to me is a step in the wrong direction. It seems recently each season has on released a "featured episode". I rather see a series of episodes that advances the story in STO, they can be used for a nice story arc every season. I would like to see at least 6 story missions every season.
Those players are also talking nonsense. As someone who was part of the "older" game (but still not the old game, ie. pre-F2P) grinding is less of a factor now than it was in the past. 2 years ago all you quite frankly had less choice so in order to continue playing you had to play the same things over again and again. Just to get some decent space combat for example you had only two choices, the borg STF's or Starbase 24. Now we have a lot more PVE missions, the battlezone, adventure zone, and FE's that finally live up to a reasonable gameplay standard. If you want to keep playing, and to keep earning, you hardly ever have to play the same thing twice in one day.
And its not like we're getting any less story content. Last season included 5 new missions with the borg "revamps" and at various times before that we had supplementing the normal releases new low-level KDF missions and the early FED series overhaul. There was also the Nimbus episode series to supplement what we got for the romulans in the first expansion and at present its reasonable to expect similar things from the next expansion coming later this year. The only time we lacked any new story telling developments was with Season 6 and the fleet system add-ons, which falls under the heading of "what STO used to be."
I think the issue that some people are having is that cryptic isn't relying on FE series to sell an entire season (as they did with S5 and previous.) There's less emphasis, even though at worst we're getting marginally fewer (but still far more substantial) episodes, and people (being socially minded creatures) mistake that change of presentation for a change of state.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Those players are also talking nonsense. As someone who was part of the "older" game (but still not the old game, ie. pre-F2P) grinding is less of a factor now than it was in the past. 2 years ago all you quite frankly had less choice so in order to continue playing you had to play the same things over again and again. Just to get some decent space combat for example you had only two choices, the borg STF's or Starbase 24. Now we have a lot more PVE missions, the battlezone, adventure zone, and FE's that finally live up to a reasonable gameplay standard. If you want to keep playing, and to keep earning, you hardly ever have to play the same thing twice in one day
But do you honestly consider these things fun? You might have a choice in what you do but that "choice" is simply "Which group of mobs do you want to shoot, and in what style do you want to shoot them?" There are a precious few queues that require more than just "shoot these mobs for X amount of time", and the majority of them, the STFs, have turned into just another shoot-em-up. The battlezones are no different, except that you can waltz in and out whenever you feel like it.
Edit: The game is a huge moneymaker, so yes I agree that STO will be around for a long while more.
But do you honestly consider these things fun? You might have a choice in what you do but that "choice" is simply "Which group of mobs do you want to shoot, and in what style do you want to shoot them?" There are a precious few queues that require more than just "shoot these mobs for X amount of time", and the majority of them, the STFs, have turned into just another shoot-em-up. The battlezones are no different, except that you can waltz in and out whenever you feel like it..
Yes. All the new PVEs are more elaborate than the Borg STFs and those can only be considered "elaborate" in so far as that they emphasized a single strategy that once you had down was considerably worse to play than the free form mob slaying of the old gorn minefield or starbase 24. I could elaborate on how the mission design of the new Voth or Undine PVEs is better or how ground combat works great in the battlezone format, but honestly if you haven't found that out through your own experiences then my ranting isn't going to change your mind. You will believe what you want to believe, regardless of anything else. Even the game.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I know and play MMO's that run on less then 1,000 customers and one was launched in 2001, still have* a podcast stream and are currently in the process of alpha testing a new engine for a Steam release. So this thread is invalid.
What this thread does tell me about the "DOOM" crowd is they are far too used to the one off World of ******** population size, and nothing else.
The "DOOM" crowd also talk about content, as if Cryptic had A) the resources like Blizzards thousands of employees, or Billions of income.
There are plenty of indications that the game is in good shape, but you would only know that if you stuck around and played the game, rather then complaining about how a smaller company has a slower development process then Blizzard. If you think its too slow, leave, stop crying, wipe your nose, collect your ball and leave. There are plenty of games out there you can go play, leave us alone with our "bad" game, cause at this point you seem like an unsatisfied person in a relationship trying to change the other person into what you want them to be, not accepting them for what they are.
It is, because the developers only listen the the whin- pvpers who don't actually play the game and instead spend all their time patting themselves on the back in the pvp forums when they aren't giving the third degree to poor EQAH in chat.
I would say the game is rebuilding from the ground up. We have the major revamp of the Crafting system, something that would be a core component for future development. Removing the exploration system is opening it up for what will replace it, allowing a transitional period between.
I think the game has some legs on it. Especially with so much lore still to draw from.
Well to be honest, the sign that STO is likely going down to me...the biggest sign is when we see a Borg lock box.
No the sign that STO will be closing within 6 months (and thus PWE/Cryptic will do their final cash grab):
1) T5 TOS Constitution Class announced and put in STO.
2) T5 Galaxy Class (not Galaxy-X) redo/refit announced and put into STO.
:eek::D;)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
No the sign that STO will be closing within 6 months (and thus PWE/Cryptic will do their final cash grab):
1) T5 TOS Constitution Class announced and put in STO.
2) T5 Galaxy Class (not Galaxy-X) redo/refit announced and put into STO.
:eek::D;)
actually, it would be those and the borg lockbox
and last but not least.....creating ICONIC professions instead of what we currently have (although this might somehow work in this game as opposed to the other game we dare not mention)
That's NCSoft for you, they're like that. They did the same with Tabula Rasa. Still pissed about that actually.
I am using the 3 Strikes and you are out rule with NCSoft. They burned me with Tabula Rasa and City of Heroes. If they burn me with Wildstar, then I will never touch one of their products again. Although, Tabula Rasa had its problems from the start that City of Heroes didn't have. Tabula Rasa had a higher development cost than other MMOs due to them deleting the original version because according to feedback, it was WoW in Space. There was also problems with the fake letter that Richard Garriot apparently released that stated that due to his profound experience in space, he will quit being the EP for Tabula Rasa. Although the last few months were interesting with them releasing interesting content that would have never been released if they game wasn't dying and the final event on the last day that the servers closed. Too bad that City of Heroes never did that or gave the players any of the bonuses that Tabula Rasa gave for the game being cancelled.
1) No one (no, not even PWE executives) knows the future. The world could be invaded by sentient flip-flops tomorrow, for all we know. So, where this game will be in 10 years is anyone's guess.
2) Video Games are like living beings. We are all dying from the moment we are born. Any video game is going to have it's best sales, and do it's best business right out of the gate. From there, if they're lucky, it's a long, slow trudge toward eventual death. If they are not lucky, it is a short, quick leap into the abyss. MMOs are no different. The most subscribers and interest you will have is when you first launch.
For the moment, STO is doing well. Our team size is still pretty much the same as a year ago. We're working on new stuff all the time. And our playerbase seems pretty stable. So, barring the Flip-Flopocolypse, I think we'll be around for a while yet.
So. . . yes. STO is dying. Albeit very, very slowly. Just as I am. (I hope)
... The world could be invaded by sentient flip-flops tomorrow, for all we know... So, barring the Flip-Flopocolypse, I think we'll be around for a while yet.
when you see borg cube in a lockbox then you need to worry
Haha...I use that as my doom and desperation indicator as well. The second Cryptic announces flyable Borg Cubes is the second I know I need to find a new MMO because STO is on its last legs. :P
I still have some faith that STO wil be around for the 50TH ANN of STAR TREK TOS.
I just hope that we have hit bottom and things are going to be getting better for STO as time goes on and that we will see that Legacy Of Romulas wasn't a fluke and that they can still create better content for STO than we ever dreamed possible.
I think that sto forums are on the way out. With the propaganda ministry and its rentamods running around rampant. If the playerbases opinions do not meet parameters, close the thread.
Comments
personally I enjoy the event grinds, winter race was a blast, summer jet pack was cool, Crystalline Entity and mirror are great fun, the only one that was a bit lame was the q-anniversary.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Is STO on the way out? I would say its in decline, yes. Most MMOs typically start on a decline after 4 years. With STO, the problem is simple that there is no fun and it's all about one grind after another and people are at their limits. (Especially when new content only lasts a day. :rolleyes: )
Will STO be around in another 3 years and reach it's 7th Anniversary? I think there's a good possibility STO will still be around. Though who knows if it will be still in development at that point.
10 years? It's rare modern MMOs live that long. However, there are plenty of first generation MMOs still running. But afraid I personally don't see people staying long after STO stops development. The only thing left to do at that point would be making stories missions in the Foundry.
Well I did put jetpacks into the same category as nuking velociraptors from low orbit.
I didn't care much for the winter race but the gingerbread invasion was something else again. I just wish that was incorporated into the "main" grind since that was by far the most outstanding piece of winder holiday content they've shipped yet (I had to show the family the fight against the yeti, it was that "fundamentally appreciable.")
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
To answer the OP's question about whether or not STO will still be around after 7 or 10 years, I have to ask a question. How many MMOs in existence today that has been around for 7 to 10 years? I'm not trying to be a smartass (at least not at this moment), but the only one I can think of is WoW.
So far, I enjoy playing STO, however, I have not been around when STO initially launched so I can't say if it has gotten better or worse. It's likely a little bit of both. The Duty Officer aspect of the game was not part of the initial release so I count that as "better". Season 6 added a fleet advancement system so I would say that is something that has made the game better.
On the other hand many players have stated the game has become more of a grind fest than it has been in the past. I have no opinion about that since that was before I started playing STO. The lack of any significant story missions to me is a step in the wrong direction. It seems recently each season has on released a "featured episode". I rather see a series of episodes that advances the story in STO, they can be used for a nice story arc every season. I would like to see at least 6 story missions every season.
If Cryptic can make more steps that moves the game forward than move the game backwards, then that would have a positive affect on the longevity of STO. Also as long as STO can attract more new player than loose current players, then that is also a step in the right direction.
That's NCSoft for you, they're like that. They did the same with Tabula Rasa. Still pissed about that actually.
Everquest, Guild Wars, and do note that Champions Online is still running despite being older than STO and thoroughly less well supported.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Those players are also talking nonsense. As someone who was part of the "older" game (but still not the old game, ie. pre-F2P) grinding is less of a factor now than it was in the past. 2 years ago all you quite frankly had less choice so in order to continue playing you had to play the same things over again and again. Just to get some decent space combat for example you had only two choices, the borg STF's or Starbase 24. Now we have a lot more PVE missions, the battlezone, adventure zone, and FE's that finally live up to a reasonable gameplay standard. If you want to keep playing, and to keep earning, you hardly ever have to play the same thing twice in one day.
And its not like we're getting any less story content. Last season included 5 new missions with the borg "revamps" and at various times before that we had supplementing the normal releases new low-level KDF missions and the early FED series overhaul. There was also the Nimbus episode series to supplement what we got for the romulans in the first expansion and at present its reasonable to expect similar things from the next expansion coming later this year. The only time we lacked any new story telling developments was with Season 6 and the fleet system add-ons, which falls under the heading of "what STO used to be."
I think the issue that some people are having is that cryptic isn't relying on FE series to sell an entire season (as they did with S5 and previous.) There's less emphasis, even though at worst we're getting marginally fewer (but still far more substantial) episodes, and people (being socially minded creatures) mistake that change of presentation for a change of state.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
But do you honestly consider these things fun? You might have a choice in what you do but that "choice" is simply "Which group of mobs do you want to shoot, and in what style do you want to shoot them?" There are a precious few queues that require more than just "shoot these mobs for X amount of time", and the majority of them, the STFs, have turned into just another shoot-em-up. The battlezones are no different, except that you can waltz in and out whenever you feel like it.
Edit: The game is a huge moneymaker, so yes I agree that STO will be around for a long while more.
Yes. All the new PVEs are more elaborate than the Borg STFs and those can only be considered "elaborate" in so far as that they emphasized a single strategy that once you had down was considerably worse to play than the free form mob slaying of the old gorn minefield or starbase 24. I could elaborate on how the mission design of the new Voth or Undine PVEs is better or how ground combat works great in the battlezone format, but honestly if you haven't found that out through your own experiences then my ranting isn't going to change your mind. You will believe what you want to believe, regardless of anything else. Even the game.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
What this thread does tell me about the "DOOM" crowd is they are far too used to the one off World of ******** population size, and nothing else.
The "DOOM" crowd also talk about content, as if Cryptic had A) the resources like Blizzards thousands of employees, or
There are plenty of indications that the game is in good shape, but you would only know that if you stuck around and played the game, rather then complaining about how a smaller company has a slower development process then Blizzard. If you think its too slow, leave, stop crying, wipe your nose, collect your ball and leave. There are plenty of games out there you can go play, leave us alone with our "bad" game, cause at this point you seem like an unsatisfied person in a relationship trying to change the other person into what you want them to be, not accepting them for what they are.
Okay so I know most peeps are, probably less than what I made it out to be, but you get the point...
As long as the game keeps making money, they have no reason to close it
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
I think the game has some legs on it. Especially with so much lore still to draw from.
No the sign that STO will be closing within 6 months (and thus PWE/Cryptic will do their final cash grab):
1) T5 TOS Constitution Class announced and put in STO.
2) T5 Galaxy Class (not Galaxy-X) redo/refit announced and put into STO.
:eek::D;)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
actually, it would be those and the borg lockbox
and last but not least.....creating ICONIC professions instead of what we currently have (although this might somehow work in this game as opposed to the other game we dare not mention)
system Lord Baal is dead
If the STO forums are any indication, STO runs at a loss of minus several trillion dollars a month.
I am using the 3 Strikes and you are out rule with NCSoft. They burned me with Tabula Rasa and City of Heroes. If they burn me with Wildstar, then I will never touch one of their products again. Although, Tabula Rasa had its problems from the start that City of Heroes didn't have. Tabula Rasa had a higher development cost than other MMOs due to them deleting the original version because according to feedback, it was WoW in Space. There was also problems with the fake letter that Richard Garriot apparently released that stated that due to his profound experience in space, he will quit being the EP for Tabula Rasa. Although the last few months were interesting with them releasing interesting content that would have never been released if they game wasn't dying and the final event on the last day that the servers closed. Too bad that City of Heroes never did that or gave the players any of the bonuses that Tabula Rasa gave for the game being cancelled.
Borg Cubs would make for very fun non-combat ground pets.
1) No one (no, not even PWE executives) knows the future. The world could be invaded by sentient flip-flops tomorrow, for all we know. So, where this game will be in 10 years is anyone's guess.
2) Video Games are like living beings. We are all dying from the moment we are born. Any video game is going to have it's best sales, and do it's best business right out of the gate. From there, if they're lucky, it's a long, slow trudge toward eventual death. If they are not lucky, it is a short, quick leap into the abyss. MMOs are no different. The most subscribers and interest you will have is when you first launch.
For the moment, STO is doing well. Our team size is still pretty much the same as a year ago. We're working on new stuff all the time. And our playerbase seems pretty stable. So, barring the Flip-Flopocolypse, I think we'll be around for a while yet.
So. . . yes. STO is dying. Albeit very, very slowly. Just as I am. (I hope)
There you go!!! I knew it. Even the Devs know it!
(I love the way the internet works!)
I want a Borg Cub. It will be fluffy death and assimilation.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I, for one, welcome our new Flip-Flop overlords!
Haha...I use that as my doom and desperation indicator as well. The second Cryptic announces flyable Borg Cubes is the second I know I need to find a new MMO because STO is on its last legs. :P
I still have some faith that STO wil be around for the 50TH ANN of STAR TREK TOS.
I just hope that we have hit bottom and things are going to be getting better for STO as time goes on and that we will see that Legacy Of Romulas wasn't a fluke and that they can still create better content for STO than we ever dreamed possible.
WHO TOLD YOU THAT WAS COMING? Now their plans have to be stepped up.
I for one welcome our new flip flop overlords.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
Typical political response. Take everything out of context. Only read what you want.
He stated the game is doing WELL, NO reduction in staff and NEW content is in the works.
Being said that whether it is games or television series (STTNG 8 seasons) nothing lasts forever.
I am hopful for a long run.