2nd Major Expansion on the way at the end of the year.
Major revamp of the games most populated social zone very recently.
Increased size of Dev Team, in a studio that has been hiring.
Increased frequency of updates.
Whether people want to admit it or not, continual fixing of bugs and issues within the game.
Not the signs of a game on it's way out by any means.
All MMOs die eventually, but I see nothing indicating that STO is on it's way out anytime soon.
ok so...
1. its barely an expansion, nevermind a major expansion. (well if the new one is anything like the lor) an expansion in almost every other mmo expands the whole game, every faction usually gets a large amount of new quests, zones, classes, races, gear, etc, etc. lor introduced the romulans. and the only thing I got to do on my fed was nimbus, which took all of about 2 hrs.. that was hardly an expansion.. considering it was one of the laziest releases of a new race I have ever seen in mmo history. it did nothing for people who were not interested in romulans, especially considering the romulans released were not even like the romulans people grew up loving.
2. I cannot complain about the revamp to esd, it was needed and well done. but hardly worth noting when talking about how the game is performing. it was not even something the player base was asking for/ complaining about lol..
3.sure, the sto team has just about doubled since they first started 4 years ago, but this is still not good enough. most healthy games have hundreds of employees just for one game, if not thousands (depending on the success of the game). but, generally, a small team was usually a few hundred.. cryptic started with roughly 20 team members (dedicated to sto, and this is confirmed by older dev posts in the archives telling us of their woes with not having enough peeps). since they started hiring a few years ago, they have roughly doubled (give or take). but, this still is not good enough, as just a few days ago, a dev commented on the fact that they all still wear multiple hats, that they do not focus on fixes and what not because it takes too many man hours they do not have. gecko has commented on this in pod casts as well.. so yes, it has grown, but not the way it should..
ive been saying for years, that cryptic/pwe need to sh*t or get off the pot when it comes to the sto team. either hire what is needed and not just a few here and there, or admit that you cant, and let everyone expect mediocre work.. just to put it into perspective, rift is a game that released at the same time as sto. rift had a small dev team as well a few hundred, but they quickly grew the team to support making it a better game. now they have a few thousand employees, ranging from the front desk phone operatore, to a full blown customer service department (that you can call and talk to a human).
sto started, had a huge franchise to ride the coat tails of, (lesser risk with garunteed returns) and they still ***** foot around with expanding the game to be a major team in the gaming universe.
both are almost the exact same age (rift and sto) and rift shames sto, they just announced their third expansion, and all of their expansions have been larger than sto was at release. they also have monthly content releases and larger quarterly releases.. not to mention, they are awesome at bug squashing and quality assurance (which cryptic has none of).
im not trying to say everyone should play rift, im just compairing them because they both launched withine a month or two of eachother.
3. sure, there has been an increase in frequency of updates, but they are still sub par. their replayability is still hard to swallow after a month. it is some of the grindiest content I have ever played in mmo's. and there is no imagination involved with making the content.. we have science, engineering, and tactical officers.. the most creative thing they have ever done for the three (in space) is to speed up a timer on closing rifts, or jumpstarting a defense platform.. in 4 years, they have never tried to separate the two, infact, all fingers point to them trying to merge them (as evidence by their ship design as of late).. its all a big dps race baby, and there is no ssigns of us having to think at all in the forseable future.
it is all essentially copy and paste style playable content. look at the last few battlegrounds.. they are exactly the same, just different art assets.. its like they are not even trying anymore.. unless its an fe, which we see like once a year.
4. ummm, true, they have fixed a few bugs.. but, keep in mind, the list is still impossibly long now (*since they let it sit for so long), and see my statement above about devs saying they just don't have the hours to fix them. everytime they fix a bug, ten more take its place.. and a lot of their fixes seem to either break something else, or the bug just shows back up again at a later date. (ie, tool trays and what not). not to mention, that a lot of these bugs are bugs we (the players) caught on tribble while testing the content, and reported, and then went live, and stayed live for years..
5.i think sto is in its 2cnd wind now.. it all looks great for the time being (to some people) but some of us have been through this with them before. they make a big push, save face, then let it all unravel again. the problem now is, that there is other option on the horizon. there are a few new star trek games in the works.. other sci fi games are coming out, and other mmo's are starting to push the envelope not only with development, and value. but with technology too. I ask, can cryptic keep up?
id say no. they have not made any real noteworthy changes to keep up with the current market, and it is about to make some large changes in the coming year(s). cryptics engine is a pretty weak when compared with other mmo gaming engines. as most reviews I have read (that were not suck ups for exclusives reviews, ie, massively and most of the podcasts) they all say that this game was not meant to be on this engine. angry joe summed it up best that way.
you are correct. all mmo's die eventually, but some sooner than others.. and sto is a sooner rather than later example.. im not saying the servers are coming down tomorrow, but cryptic has made a track record with this game.. it has never really had anything proper going for it.. it was rushed to release a year or two too early. it released very light (meaning it didn't have a lot of content, and was not polished) and the game has been struggling to keep up, I feel bad as it could have been a great game had it not been hindered from the get go. I want sto to be successful, but from what I see, im not so sure cryptic/pwe wants it to be.. I mean Christ, pwe considers sto to be research and development. and its sad that neverwinter has a much healthier team, which can get stuff done..
All MMOs die eventually, but I see nothing indicating that STO is on it's way out anytime soon.
You're probably right, but then there is the negative example of (Cryptic/Paragon/NC Soft's) City of Heroes.
It seemed to do ok, not as many players as it had during it's prime, but still 2-3 "issues" (same as STO's "seasons") each year (with another one ready to hit the beta realm), new, recently introduced changes and improvements, when it was suddenly cancelled. They still had news about future updates a few hours before the cancellation was announced.
Since then, I've started to expect a sudden death for any mmo (except perhaps WoW) out there, even if it seems to do ok...
1. its barely an expansion, nevermind a major expansion. (well if the new one is anything like the lor) an expansion in almost every other mmo expands the whole game, every faction usually gets a large amount of new quests, zones, classes, races, gear, etc, etc. lor introduced the romulans. and the only thing I got to do on my fed was nimbus, which took all of about 2 hrs.. that was hardly an expansion.. considering it was one of the laziest releases of a new race I have ever seen in mmo history. it did nothing for people who were not interested in romulans, especially considering the romulans released were not even like the romulans people grew up loving.
2. I cannot complain about the revamp to esd, it was needed and well done. but hardly worth noting when talking about how the game is performing. it was not even something the player base was asking for/ complaining about lol..
3.sure, the sto team has just about doubled since they first started 4 years ago, but this is still not good enough. most healthy games have hundreds of employees just for one game, if not thousands (depending on the success of the game). but, generally, a small team was usually a few hundred.. cryptic started with roughly 20 team members (dedicated to sto, and this is confirmed by older dev posts in the archives telling us of their woes with not having enough peeps). since they started hiring a few years ago, they have roughly doubled (give or take). but, this still is not good enough, as just a few days ago, a dev commented on the fact that they all still wear multiple hats, that they do not focus on fixes and what not because it takes too many man hours they do not have. gecko has commented on this in pod casts as well.. so yes, it has grown, but not the way it should..
ive been saying for years, that cryptic/pwe need to sh*t or get off the pot when it comes to the sto team. either hire what is needed and not just a few here and there, or admit that you cant, and let everyone expect mediocre work.. just to put it into perspective, rift is a game that released at the same time as sto. rift had a small dev team as well a few hundred, but they quickly grew the team to support making it a better game. now they have a few thousand employees, ranging from the front desk phone operatore, to a full blown customer service department (that you can call and talk to a human).
sto started, had a huge franchise to ride the coat tails of, (lesser risk with garunteed returns) and they still ***** foot around with expanding the game to be a major team in the gaming universe.
both are almost the exact same age (rift and sto) and rift shames sto, they just announced their third expansion, and all of their expansions have been larger than sto was at release. they also have monthly content releases and larger quarterly releases.. not to mention, they are awesome at bug squashing and quality assurance (which cryptic has none of).
im not trying to say everyone should play rift, im just compairing them because they both launched withine a month or two of eachother.
3. sure, there has been an increase in frequency of updates, but they are still sub par. their replayability is still hard to swallow after a month. it is some of the grindiest content I have ever played in mmo's. and there is no imagination involved with making the content.. we have science, engineering, and tactical officers.. the most creative thing they have ever done for the three (in space) is to speed up a timer on closing rifts, or jumpstarting a defense platform.. in 4 years, they have never tried to separate the two, infact, all fingers point to them trying to merge them (as evidence by their ship design as of late).. its all a big dps race baby, and there is no ssigns of us having to think at all in the forseable future.
it is all essentially copy and paste style playable content. look at the last few battlegrounds.. they are exactly the same, just different art assets.. its like they are not even trying anymore.. unless its an fe, which we see like once a year.
4. ummm, true, they have fixed a few bugs.. but, keep in mind, the list is still impossibly long now (*since they let it sit for so long), and see my statement above about devs saying they just don't have the hours to fix them. everytime they fix a bug, ten more take its place.. and a lot of their fixes seem to either break something else, or the bug just shows back up again at a later date. (ie, tool trays and what not). not to mention, that a lot of these bugs are bugs we (the players) caught on tribble while testing the content, and reported, and then went live, and stayed live for years..
5.i think sto is in its 2cnd wind now.. it all looks great for the time being (to some people) but some of us have been through this with them before. they make a big push, save face, then let it all unravel again. the problem now is, that there is other option on the horizon. there are a few new star trek games in the works.. other sci fi games are coming out, and other mmo's are starting to push the envelope not only with development, and value. but with technology too. I ask, can cryptic keep up?
id say no. they have not made any real noteworthy changes to keep up with the current market, and it is about to make some large changes in the coming year(s). cryptics engine is a pretty weak when compared with other mmo gaming engines. as most reviews I have read (that were not suck ups for exclusives reviews, ie, massively and most of the podcasts) they all say that this game was not meant to be on this engine. angry joe summed it up best that way.
you are correct. all mmo's die eventually, but some sooner than others.. and sto is a sooner rather than later example.. im not saying the servers are coming down tomorrow, but cryptic has made a track record with this game.. it has never really had anything proper going for it.. it was rushed to release a year or two too early. it released very light (meaning it didn't have a lot of content, and was not polished) and the game has been struggling to keep up, I feel bad as it could have been a great game had it not been hindered from the get go. I want sto to be successful, but from what I see, im not so sure cryptic/pwe wants it to be.. I mean Christ, pwe considers sto to be research and development. and its sad that neverwinter has a much healthier team, which can get stuff done..
^ This! This man speaks the Truth. He speaks for the trees.
"Star Trek Online is powered by the most abundant resource in the galaxy . . . Gullibility"
The problem is that everyone's concept of Star Trek is different. If you say Star Trek to a group of people some flash on TNG, others TOS, some DS9, and so on. With over 700 episodes in syndication everyone's concept of Star Trek is different.
There are people who only want to pew-pew. There are people who want a simulator that allows them to walk around their ship and talk to crew. There are people who want to play Dabo and Poker - though I do not understand that one: a game in a game...
Take the 10 smartest Trek fans on the forum and you will have 10 different ideas of what STO should be. The internet has taken away a humans ability to compromise on anything. It is MY WAY or not at all.
for me cosmic, its not just about weather it is trek enough.. had this game (with the same develpers) been more of a d and d game, it would have keeled over long ago (if it had fallowed all the same problems this game has faced.. the fact that it is star trek is the only reason it is still alive (imho).
when I compare sto to say rift, or wow, or any other game, im not compareing how the story, or the ip is being represented. I compare how the game is developed, the innovation, and if it stays on par with the mmo genre. the playability, and replayability of it. star trek online has a lot going for it, unfortunately it has a lot dragging it down as well.
its like cars.. several car companies make say a mid sized sedan.. but what makes say a toyato better than another car.. (this is all hypothetical, its not my opinion on cars, nor do I want this to turn into a cars discussion lol) well its the fact that it is built better. looks aside, you want a reliable car that has all the technology and safety of the current "times". you want a care that gets good gas mileage, and has a good list of features, and yes, you want it to look nice.
now if another car company, decides to make a mid sized sedan as well, they have to make it up to par with the leading cars in the industry, or your not gonna sell them. and you have to make it a value. if you make an inferior car, it is not going to sell.
sto is like a car that looks really really good, but is not quite keeping up with the industry standards.. it sells because of its looks, but slowly, it is loosing traction in the market.
star trek onlines greatest misgiving is its poor attention to customer service and quality assurance. you cant have a product that is 100% customer satisfaction based, and not have these two things. its like selling a car without a warranty these days.. lol..
also, you cannot have a product that is not performing to the undustry standards.. nor can you make it come up to industry standards by skimping on the man power..
is sto the worst game on the market, not by a long shot.. but its just barely in the middle of the road category.. and it is no where near the top of the list.. and with competition coming just around the corner, they need to stiffen their upper lip and get back in the fight so to say lol..
I want sto to do better. and it is not too late, but, there is a track record this game/company has made that speaks for itself.. I frequent some other game forums.. sure, there are a few people who cry wolf, and a bunch of whiners.. but generally not a lot of doooom.. as the game (s) are not doing so poorly that they are on the cusp..
sto's forums are horrible compaired to other games forums, and I think that speaks a lot about the game. sure some of the doom is based on peoples wants and needs within the star trek universe.. but lately, a lot of people have been complaining about the quality of the game itself.. im interested to see what this so called expansion looks like, the past has told me not to expect much. but they keep hyping it, and I am going to be very critical of it.. this upcoming expansion is a make or break for them. one of two things is going to happen (no middle ground lol) people are going to love it, and the game will pick back up, or people are going to be disenchanted and the game will be barron as a brick.
I really want to know. If anyone see a bright future for STO or is STO going to go the way of Star Trek Galaxy ??
So far, if there was ever any time STO would have gone under, was in the first year of its release. I was there. This game was a mess and woefully incomplete.
The only reason it survived was two words:
Star Trek
If it didn't have that, this game would not have lived past its first year. It really was a mess. These days? Nothing at all like that.
who can see the future, will the world even be here next week or 3 years from now, it is impossible to predict what will happen in the future.
all we can go by is STO`s previous release history and the future releases that are known.
here is the past release history -
from first release in February 2010
Season One: Common Ground: March 24, 2010
Season Two: Ancient Enemies: July 27, 2010
Season Three: Genesis: December 9, 2010
Season Four: Crossfire: July 7, 2011
Season Five: Call to Arms: December 1, 2011
Season Six: Under Siege: July 12, 2012
Season Seven: New Romulus: November 13, 2012
Expansion: Legacy of Romulus: May 21, 2013
Season Eight: The Sphere: November 12, 2013
season 8.5: January 30, 2014
Season Nine: A New Accord: April 22, 2014
imminent releases
Season 9.5 (late July 2014)
Expansion II (late 2014)
not counting the first release but just updates
from this history we see 3 updates in the first year.
2 updates in the second third and forth year.
and a total of 4 updates past and scheduled for this year.
given this history it looks to me as though this is going to be the strongest year ever.
does that sound like a game that is winding down?
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
What if STO was a huge beta for PWE to see what they were doing right and worng with STO as an MMO and what if the rumor of STO 2.0. Was to take all they have learn here and made major improvement to a new and improved version of STO.
What would you say if PWE when it took over STO and decided that STO could be so much better that what they got and decided to turn STO into a beta testbed.
To test out new ideas for new and greatly improved version of STO.
That could be launched in a few years.
Say maybe around 2016. The 50 ANN of Star Trek TOS.
P.S. In an early post I Though the Legacy Of Romulus was season 8. I was worng. It was after season 7 as an expansion set. THXS Bobbydazlers for the STO season listing
Thing is, as a f2p model, STO is generally regarded as one of the few that do it right. So I don't think it's on the way out.
however other companies are adopting cryptics take on the free to play model, and are quickly making better quality games with the same style free to play.
not to mention a lot of the comments on sto doing it right were years ago. they have since turned it into a grind or buy game... almost all of their content (including the anniversary event) are deisigned to pray on peoples lack of time, or lack of patience. thus, making it longer and harder to get the recources you need to get what you want.
I agree, a year or two ago, this was one of the best f2p models out there, it is now slipping form that spot. as other games are coming up with better f2p models..
So far, if there was ever any time STO would have gone under, was in the first year of its release. I was there. This game was a mess and woefully incomplete.
The only reason it survived was two words:
Star Trek
If it didn't have that, this game would not have lived past its first year. It really was a mess. These days? Nothing at all like that.
it technically almost did.. don't forget, the f2p change was implemented far sooner than stahl had said it was going to, and that in the second year, the game was pretty empty as far as players.. f2p saved this game. they rushed the f2p model to save face..
"IF" STO stays on the same track its on now. It would surprise me to see it getting a 6th ann. The constent habit of taking away content and not adding content. Taking away a players hard erned traits. Removing exploration from a exploration game. If they keep taking away stuff they are gonna have to make content just to be able to take it away.
To me, I don't understand why cryptic is delibrately hurting their game. If they wanna kill it. They should just announce a closing of the servers and give ppl a date on when its over. Right now, this strategy of cutting off a limb till they get to the head is just plain stuppied.
The Only thing that could save Sto right now is a huge addition to exploration and expansion 2.
Thats putting alot of trust into cryptic btw. If exp. 2 isn't the cream of the crop. I'll see you guys in some other game.
Obviously they do not think that they are hurting the game. So what they are doing is following their own action plan on how to improve the game.
But even if Expansion 2 is a huge let down... You know how long Matrix Online, which basically was born a failure, lasted?
You know how long M:WO is now around, despite having failed pretty much every development deadline they set for themselves, and having failed to deliver its core module that everyone was so eager for?
Have you looked at how Champions Online has developed? They have little hope of ever getting the Foundry, content updates are much, much rarer than in STO. And it's still there.
Even a game on its way out lasts longer than a year.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
however other companies are adopting cryptics take on the free to play model, and are quickly making better quality games with the same style free to play.
not to mention a lot of the comments on sto doing it right were years ago. they have since turned it into a grind or buy game... almost all of their content (including the anniversary event) are deisigned to pray on peoples lack of time, or lack of patience. thus, making it longer and harder to get the recources you need to get what you want.
I agree, a year or two ago, this was one of the best f2p models out there, it is now slipping form that spot. as other games are coming up with better f2p models..
the big problem with your grind theory is, there is nothing you need from any of the grind content, there might be new shinies you want but nothing you really need.
it is completely your choice if you want to grind for it or not and to be quite honest I often find myself using ships and weapons that I picked up for fee while levelling up rather then any of the few items I have done the grind for.
and as for all these other games that are better quality, who really wants to play yet another in a long line of sword and sorcery rubbish, not me thank you very glad.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
the big problem with your grind theory is, there is nothing you need from any of the grind content, there might be new shinies you want but nothing you really need.
it is completely your choice if you want to grind for it or not and to be quite honest I often find myself using ships and weapons that I picked up for fee while levelling up rather then any of the few items I have done the grind for.
no doubt man, I actually do not have any of the event ships or anything.. I will not support content I don't believe in..
however, it doesn't change the fact that they design the game and the shinies to make you want them. and since they make all of their "free" content to support the grind for the shinies you want (ie, every form of currency) it effects the game hands down..
no doubt man, I actually do not have any of the event ships or anything.. I will not support content I don't believe in..
however, it doesn't change the fact that they design the game and the shinies to make you want them. and since they make all of their "free" content to support the grind for the shinies you want (ie, every form of currency) it effects the game hands down..
only if you are fool enough to let it.
I can only say it hasn't effected the game for me.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
When a game makes me want something against my will, that is the day I uninstall the game. I prefer to have control over my own impulses and desires, and give into them at my own discretion.
When a game makes me want something against my will, that is the day I uninstall the game. I prefer to have control over my own impulses and desires, and give into them at my own discretion.
indeed that player, I play the game the way I want to, if there is something I find fun I play it, if there is something I`m not so keen on I don't, if there is an event I want to do cos I find it fun and a good break from my normal game I do it.
even if theres something I find fun I wont necessarily bother grinding the weaponry that goes with it as I have found I don't need it.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Some MMOs make it obvious that it is going to die soon. Other MMOs come as a huge surprise when the game dies. City of Heroes had one of their Issues (Seasons) in Open Beta with about a couple of weeks before it hit the live servers when the Server Closing announcement was released. It caught everyone by surprise because it was completely unexpected. With STO, it will be the unexpected closure issued by PWE f the Servers close. MMO companies don't spend a ton of money on developing expansions when they know the servers are going to close soon.
If STO is on it's "way out" ... what's with Champions Online ... beyond Expiration Date ?
-> after CO shutting down, it might be reasonable to assume STO might have just another 1-2 years, till then ... it's basically all Tin-foil-hat-doom-talk ....
and won't be around for it's 10th ann. or even its 7th ??
Almost none MMO is , and that's still 6 years away ... so what's your point ... oh boy I'm almost 30, so I was wondering, do you guys think I'm "on my way out" ? :P
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Some MMOs make it obvious that it is going to die soon. Other MMOs come as a huge surprise when the game dies. City of Heroes had one of their Issues (Seasons) in Open Beta with about a couple of weeks before it hit the live servers when the Server Closing announcement was released. It caught everyone by surprise because it was completely unexpected. With STO, it will be the unexpected closure issued by PWE f the Servers close. MMO companies don't spend a ton of money on developing expansions when they know the servers are going to close soon.
PWE is either an evil conglomerate that will do anything for money, or they're maliciously incompetent who don't know how to make smart decisions.
It's difficult to inform people that it can't possibly be both. It's either one or the other.
It's my understanding that PWE has a history of keeping games running so long as they make enough money to pay for their server time - if nothing else, as a form of advertising for the more profitable games. That seems to be a good part of why they have no plans to shut down CO, either.
So yeah, more of the same doomcrying that has been going on since Open Beta.
How many of you feel that STO is on the way out and won't be around for it's 10th ann. or even its 7th ??
If it makes it to its 9th anniversary, 5 years from now and then closes i'll be pretty ok with that. 9 years would be a good run.
will it last 2 or 3 more years? who knows. Game development is a fickle thing. at any moment things can spiral out of control and the game can close for a dozen reasons.
baring major catastrophes i expect the game will see its 10th anni and beyond but you might as well ask people to roll a dice as an answer. its not going anywhere soon though.
"IF" STO stays on the same track its on now. It would surprise me to see it getting a 6th ann. The constent habit of taking away content and not adding content. Taking away a players hard erned traits. Removing exploration from a exploration game. If they keep taking away stuff they are gonna have to make content just to be able to take it away.
To me, I don't understand why cryptic is delibrately hurting their game. If they wanna kill it. They should just announce a closing of the servers and give ppl a date on when its over. Right now, this strategy of cutting off a limb till they get to the head is just plain stuppied.
The Only thing that could save Sto right now is a huge addition to exploration and expansion 2.
Thats putting alot of trust into cryptic btw. If exp. 2 isn't the cream of the crop. I'll see you guys in some other game.
You slammed it spot on! If this game does end in 12 months it is because of the people or manage the game.
Is STO on its way out?? More like STO has left it's long term players. The question is are they gaining enough new players to off set what STO is leaving behind.
Some MMOs make it obvious that it is going to die soon. Other MMOs come as a huge surprise when the game dies. City of Heroes had one of their Issues (Seasons) in Open Beta with about a couple of weeks before it hit the live servers when the Server Closing announcement was released. It caught everyone by surprise because it was completely unexpected. With STO, it will be the unexpected closure issued by PWE f the Servers close. MMO companies don't spend a ton of money on developing expansions when they know the servers are going to close soon.
and who`s to say if they did choose to drop the game some other company who might have a vision for it would not come and buy it off perfect world, as I said before nobody knows the future.
although there are many other sci-fi MMO`s the thing with STO is its unique, and all the others pale in comparison, I am sure there are many companys out there that would give their right arm to have it in their stable.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
the big problem with your grind theory is, there is nothing you need from any of the grind content, there might be new shinies you want but nothing you really need..
There's two other things to consider as well.
1. A focus on PVE grinding is nothing new for STO (I've been playing since a few weeks after the F2P update and the difference is merely that we have a bit more choice [realistically] than three elite space STF's)
2. A lot of the more recent "grind" content can be easily described as "intentionally replayable and with persistent rewards." Look at the ground battlezone, that's a fun and engaging place to be in which finally gives ground combat a place where it can function well. You can look at it as grinding, or you can look at it as simply playing the game as you would any online cooperative kill mode (this one just happens to be incorporated into an MMO.) You can probably make an exception for some of the event grinds (especially anything involving Q) but between surfing, jetpacks, and blasting dinosaurs with orbital disruptor strikes you merely have a situation that can be interpreted as "grinding", but also looked at as "gameplay" if you're not so keen on villifying MMO's for being MMO's.
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Comments
ok so...
1. its barely an expansion, nevermind a major expansion. (well if the new one is anything like the lor) an expansion in almost every other mmo expands the whole game, every faction usually gets a large amount of new quests, zones, classes, races, gear, etc, etc. lor introduced the romulans. and the only thing I got to do on my fed was nimbus, which took all of about 2 hrs.. that was hardly an expansion.. considering it was one of the laziest releases of a new race I have ever seen in mmo history. it did nothing for people who were not interested in romulans, especially considering the romulans released were not even like the romulans people grew up loving.
2. I cannot complain about the revamp to esd, it was needed and well done. but hardly worth noting when talking about how the game is performing. it was not even something the player base was asking for/ complaining about lol..
3.sure, the sto team has just about doubled since they first started 4 years ago, but this is still not good enough. most healthy games have hundreds of employees just for one game, if not thousands (depending on the success of the game). but, generally, a small team was usually a few hundred.. cryptic started with roughly 20 team members (dedicated to sto, and this is confirmed by older dev posts in the archives telling us of their woes with not having enough peeps). since they started hiring a few years ago, they have roughly doubled (give or take). but, this still is not good enough, as just a few days ago, a dev commented on the fact that they all still wear multiple hats, that they do not focus on fixes and what not because it takes too many man hours they do not have. gecko has commented on this in pod casts as well.. so yes, it has grown, but not the way it should..
ive been saying for years, that cryptic/pwe need to sh*t or get off the pot when it comes to the sto team. either hire what is needed and not just a few here and there, or admit that you cant, and let everyone expect mediocre work.. just to put it into perspective, rift is a game that released at the same time as sto. rift had a small dev team as well a few hundred, but they quickly grew the team to support making it a better game. now they have a few thousand employees, ranging from the front desk phone operatore, to a full blown customer service department (that you can call and talk to a human).
sto started, had a huge franchise to ride the coat tails of, (lesser risk with garunteed returns) and they still ***** foot around with expanding the game to be a major team in the gaming universe.
both are almost the exact same age (rift and sto) and rift shames sto, they just announced their third expansion, and all of their expansions have been larger than sto was at release. they also have monthly content releases and larger quarterly releases.. not to mention, they are awesome at bug squashing and quality assurance (which cryptic has none of).
im not trying to say everyone should play rift, im just compairing them because they both launched withine a month or two of eachother.
3. sure, there has been an increase in frequency of updates, but they are still sub par. their replayability is still hard to swallow after a month. it is some of the grindiest content I have ever played in mmo's. and there is no imagination involved with making the content.. we have science, engineering, and tactical officers.. the most creative thing they have ever done for the three (in space) is to speed up a timer on closing rifts, or jumpstarting a defense platform.. in 4 years, they have never tried to separate the two, infact, all fingers point to them trying to merge them (as evidence by their ship design as of late).. its all a big dps race baby, and there is no ssigns of us having to think at all in the forseable future.
it is all essentially copy and paste style playable content. look at the last few battlegrounds.. they are exactly the same, just different art assets.. its like they are not even trying anymore.. unless its an fe, which we see like once a year.
4. ummm, true, they have fixed a few bugs.. but, keep in mind, the list is still impossibly long now (*since they let it sit for so long), and see my statement above about devs saying they just don't have the hours to fix them. everytime they fix a bug, ten more take its place.. and a lot of their fixes seem to either break something else, or the bug just shows back up again at a later date. (ie, tool trays and what not). not to mention, that a lot of these bugs are bugs we (the players) caught on tribble while testing the content, and reported, and then went live, and stayed live for years..
5.i think sto is in its 2cnd wind now.. it all looks great for the time being (to some people) but some of us have been through this with them before. they make a big push, save face, then let it all unravel again. the problem now is, that there is other option on the horizon. there are a few new star trek games in the works.. other sci fi games are coming out, and other mmo's are starting to push the envelope not only with development, and value. but with technology too. I ask, can cryptic keep up?
id say no. they have not made any real noteworthy changes to keep up with the current market, and it is about to make some large changes in the coming year(s). cryptics engine is a pretty weak when compared with other mmo gaming engines. as most reviews I have read (that were not suck ups for exclusives reviews, ie, massively and most of the podcasts) they all say that this game was not meant to be on this engine. angry joe summed it up best that way.
you are correct. all mmo's die eventually, but some sooner than others.. and sto is a sooner rather than later example.. im not saying the servers are coming down tomorrow, but cryptic has made a track record with this game.. it has never really had anything proper going for it.. it was rushed to release a year or two too early. it released very light (meaning it didn't have a lot of content, and was not polished) and the game has been struggling to keep up, I feel bad as it could have been a great game had it not been hindered from the get go. I want sto to be successful, but from what I see, im not so sure cryptic/pwe wants it to be.. I mean Christ, pwe considers sto to be research and development. and its sad that neverwinter has a much healthier team, which can get stuff done..
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Seems to me that what will finally do for the game will be the limitations of the engine as compared to the ever growing player expectation.
That's years off.
You're probably right, but then there is the negative example of (Cryptic/Paragon/NC Soft's) City of Heroes.
It seemed to do ok, not as many players as it had during it's prime, but still 2-3 "issues" (same as STO's "seasons") each year (with another one ready to hit the beta realm), new, recently introduced changes and improvements, when it was suddenly cancelled. They still had news about future updates a few hours before the cancellation was announced.
Since then, I've started to expect a sudden death for any mmo (except perhaps WoW) out there, even if it seems to do ok...
^ This! This man speaks the Truth. He speaks for the trees.
for me cosmic, its not just about weather it is trek enough.. had this game (with the same develpers) been more of a d and d game, it would have keeled over long ago (if it had fallowed all the same problems this game has faced.. the fact that it is star trek is the only reason it is still alive (imho).
when I compare sto to say rift, or wow, or any other game, im not compareing how the story, or the ip is being represented. I compare how the game is developed, the innovation, and if it stays on par with the mmo genre. the playability, and replayability of it. star trek online has a lot going for it, unfortunately it has a lot dragging it down as well.
its like cars.. several car companies make say a mid sized sedan.. but what makes say a toyato better than another car.. (this is all hypothetical, its not my opinion on cars, nor do I want this to turn into a cars discussion lol) well its the fact that it is built better. looks aside, you want a reliable car that has all the technology and safety of the current "times". you want a care that gets good gas mileage, and has a good list of features, and yes, you want it to look nice.
now if another car company, decides to make a mid sized sedan as well, they have to make it up to par with the leading cars in the industry, or your not gonna sell them. and you have to make it a value. if you make an inferior car, it is not going to sell.
sto is like a car that looks really really good, but is not quite keeping up with the industry standards.. it sells because of its looks, but slowly, it is loosing traction in the market.
star trek onlines greatest misgiving is its poor attention to customer service and quality assurance. you cant have a product that is 100% customer satisfaction based, and not have these two things. its like selling a car without a warranty these days.. lol..
also, you cannot have a product that is not performing to the undustry standards.. nor can you make it come up to industry standards by skimping on the man power..
is sto the worst game on the market, not by a long shot.. but its just barely in the middle of the road category.. and it is no where near the top of the list.. and with competition coming just around the corner, they need to stiffen their upper lip and get back in the fight so to say lol..
I want sto to do better. and it is not too late, but, there is a track record this game/company has made that speaks for itself.. I frequent some other game forums.. sure, there are a few people who cry wolf, and a bunch of whiners.. but generally not a lot of doooom.. as the game (s) are not doing so poorly that they are on the cusp..
sto's forums are horrible compaired to other games forums, and I think that speaks a lot about the game. sure some of the doom is based on peoples wants and needs within the star trek universe.. but lately, a lot of people have been complaining about the quality of the game itself.. im interested to see what this so called expansion looks like, the past has told me not to expect much. but they keep hyping it, and I am going to be very critical of it.. this upcoming expansion is a make or break for them. one of two things is going to happen (no middle ground lol) people are going to love it, and the game will pick back up, or people are going to be disenchanted and the game will be barron as a brick.
So far, if there was ever any time STO would have gone under, was in the first year of its release. I was there. This game was a mess and woefully incomplete.
The only reason it survived was two words:
Star Trek
If it didn't have that, this game would not have lived past its first year. It really was a mess. These days? Nothing at all like that.
all we can go by is STO`s previous release history and the future releases that are known.
here is the past release history -
from first release in February 2010
Season One: Common Ground: March 24, 2010
Season Two: Ancient Enemies: July 27, 2010
Season Three: Genesis: December 9, 2010
Season Four: Crossfire: July 7, 2011
Season Five: Call to Arms: December 1, 2011
Season Six: Under Siege: July 12, 2012
Season Seven: New Romulus: November 13, 2012
Expansion: Legacy of Romulus: May 21, 2013
Season Eight: The Sphere: November 12, 2013
season 8.5: January 30, 2014
Season Nine: A New Accord: April 22, 2014
imminent releases
Season 9.5 (late July 2014)
Expansion II (late 2014)
not counting the first release but just updates
from this history we see 3 updates in the first year.
2 updates in the second third and forth year.
and a total of 4 updates past and scheduled for this year.
given this history it looks to me as though this is going to be the strongest year ever.
does that sound like a game that is winding down?
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
What would you say if PWE when it took over STO and decided that STO could be so much better that what they got and decided to turn STO into a beta testbed.
To test out new ideas for new and greatly improved version of STO.
That could be launched in a few years.
Say maybe around 2016. The 50 ANN of Star Trek TOS.
P.S. In an early post I Though the Legacy Of Romulus was season 8. I was worng. It was after season 7 as an expansion set. THXS Bobbydazlers for the STO season listing
however other companies are adopting cryptics take on the free to play model, and are quickly making better quality games with the same style free to play.
not to mention a lot of the comments on sto doing it right were years ago. they have since turned it into a grind or buy game... almost all of their content (including the anniversary event) are deisigned to pray on peoples lack of time, or lack of patience. thus, making it longer and harder to get the recources you need to get what you want.
I agree, a year or two ago, this was one of the best f2p models out there, it is now slipping form that spot. as other games are coming up with better f2p models..
it technically almost did.. don't forget, the f2p change was implemented far sooner than stahl had said it was going to, and that in the second year, the game was pretty empty as far as players.. f2p saved this game. they rushed the f2p model to save face..
Obviously they do not think that they are hurting the game. So what they are doing is following their own action plan on how to improve the game.
But even if Expansion 2 is a huge let down... You know how long Matrix Online, which basically was born a failure, lasted?
You know how long M:WO is now around, despite having failed pretty much every development deadline they set for themselves, and having failed to deliver its core module that everyone was so eager for?
Have you looked at how Champions Online has developed? They have little hope of ever getting the Foundry, content updates are much, much rarer than in STO. And it's still there.
Even a game on its way out lasts longer than a year.
lol.. yeah, once we are out of beta, hahahah
the big problem with your grind theory is, there is nothing you need from any of the grind content, there might be new shinies you want but nothing you really need.
it is completely your choice if you want to grind for it or not and to be quite honest I often find myself using ships and weapons that I picked up for fee while levelling up rather then any of the few items I have done the grind for.
and as for all these other games that are better quality, who really wants to play yet another in a long line of sword and sorcery rubbish, not me thank you very glad.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
no doubt man, I actually do not have any of the event ships or anything.. I will not support content I don't believe in..
however, it doesn't change the fact that they design the game and the shinies to make you want them. and since they make all of their "free" content to support the grind for the shinies you want (ie, every form of currency) it effects the game hands down..
only if you are fool enough to let it.
I can only say it hasn't effected the game for me.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
indeed that player, I play the game the way I want to, if there is something I find fun I play it, if there is something I`m not so keen on I don't, if there is an event I want to do cos I find it fun and a good break from my normal game I do it.
even if theres something I find fun I wont necessarily bother grinding the weaponry that goes with it as I have found I don't need it.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
stopped after seeing bold.
-> after CO shutting down, it might be reasonable to assume STO might have just another 1-2 years, till then ... it's basically all Tin-foil-hat-doom-talk ....
Almost none MMO is , and that's still 6 years away ... so what's your point ... oh boy I'm almost 30, so I was wondering, do you guys think I'm "on my way out" ? :P
PWE is either an evil conglomerate that will do anything for money, or they're maliciously incompetent who don't know how to make smart decisions.
It's difficult to inform people that it can't possibly be both. It's either one or the other.
So yeah, more of the same doomcrying that has been going on since Open Beta.
If it makes it to its 9th anniversary, 5 years from now and then closes i'll be pretty ok with that. 9 years would be a good run.
will it last 2 or 3 more years? who knows. Game development is a fickle thing. at any moment things can spiral out of control and the game can close for a dozen reasons.
baring major catastrophes i expect the game will see its 10th anni and beyond but you might as well ask people to roll a dice as an answer. its not going anywhere soon though.
If the IP were well cared for, would anyone be asking the question?
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STO player since November 2013
You slammed it spot on! If this game does end in 12 months it is because of the people or manage the game.
Is STO on its way out?? More like STO has left it's long term players. The question is are they gaining enough new players to off set what STO is leaving behind.
and who`s to say if they did choose to drop the game some other company who might have a vision for it would not come and buy it off perfect world, as I said before nobody knows the future.
although there are many other sci-fi MMO`s the thing with STO is its unique, and all the others pale in comparison, I am sure there are many companys out there that would give their right arm to have it in their stable.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
There's two other things to consider as well.
1. A focus on PVE grinding is nothing new for STO (I've been playing since a few weeks after the F2P update and the difference is merely that we have a bit more choice [realistically] than three elite space STF's)
2. A lot of the more recent "grind" content can be easily described as "intentionally replayable and with persistent rewards." Look at the ground battlezone, that's a fun and engaging place to be in which finally gives ground combat a place where it can function well. You can look at it as grinding, or you can look at it as simply playing the game as you would any online cooperative kill mode (this one just happens to be incorporated into an MMO.) You can probably make an exception for some of the event grinds (especially anything involving Q) but between surfing, jetpacks, and blasting dinosaurs with orbital disruptor strikes you merely have a situation that can be interpreted as "grinding", but also looked at as "gameplay" if you're not so keen on villifying MMO's for being MMO's.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!