Its not ruining pvp as much as other stuff, which is why I have said it doesn't need a total nerf. However PVP would be much more fun without everyone using 20 second rsp and willing to constantly spam it because they can lower it to global cooldown because of a2b. RSP is balanced when its on a long cooldown, but its overpowered when its cooldown is at global and is doffed so that synergy needs a nerf. RSP is up 1/3 of the time with a2b builds and purple rsp doff.
running 2 copies of rsp instead of a2b also brings it to global cooldown
Also please explain why someone couldn't throw 2x bfaw, 2x tt, and 2x rsp on an Avenger and 'be a tank and a dps cruiser'.
2x rsp on an avenger that is also running 2 emergency powers will only have 2 other slots they can use for stuff like a2d, a2s, DEM and ET so is doable but not very effective as a2b avenger, it will be low on hull heals or not have DEM so less damage, also you will have to use FAW2 and 3 without an attack pattern or just 2 copies of weaker FAW 1. A2b cruisers will have a lot more heals they are spamming in between rsp cooldowns like ET and ST and more likely to tank better and damage better then an avenger like that.
The non a2b avenger already is lacking overcap because it can only fit eptw1 and no a2b to help with overcap, on top of that it only has 1 copy of dem not at global so less damage there after DEM3 wears off and less survivability and damage because its running 2 FAW instead of FAW and an attack pattern. Still a decent enough ship to fight, but not the same kind of god mode as the other build which has more dps and surivivability.
2x rsp on an avenger that is also running 2 emergency powers will only have 2 other slots they can use for stuff like a2d, a2s, DEM and ET so is doable but not very effective as a2b avenger, it will be low on hull heals or not have DEM so less damage, also you will have to use FAW2 and 3 without an attack pattern or just 2 copies of weaker FAW 1. A2b cruisers will have a lot more heals they are spamming in between rsp cooldowns like ET and ST and more likely to tank better and damage better then an avenger like that.
Not using a2b means your sci heals are actually useful, and you can use a2s to greater effect as well. I wouldn't use faw3 on an avenger if I had one anyways, nor would I use 2xrsp on a non a2b build for that matter - but someone who uses a2b to max their rsp uptime probably would if a2b were nerfed.
I'm not saying certain builds wouldn't be less effective without a2b, but it's not the gamebreaker people make it out to be. try not using it for a bit, you'll probably be a better player for it.
Not using a2b means your sci heals are actually useful, and you can use a2s to greater effect as well. I wouldn't use faw3 on an avenger if I had one anyways, nor would I use 2xrsp on a non a2b build for that matter - but someone who uses a2b to max their rsp uptime probably would if a2b were nerfed.
I'm not saying certain builds wouldn't be less effective without a2b, but it's not the gamebreaker people make it out to be. try not using it for a bit, you'll probably be a better player for it.
The aux power makes my heals more effective argument is silly.
1) You don't use your hazards (the only skill most cruisers carry that REQUIRES aux at all) while your aux is at 5. You use it between cycles and have no issues popping it off with a good amount of aux... and you get to pop it off more often because with out A2B its a 45s skill.
2) The only other options that require aux... are A2S which not that many cruisers trying to be DPS cruisers would run anyway even if they didn't run A2B on that global. A2D which is effective even with a pretty low aux number but running that is a single copy a2b ship so aux power for damp is no issue. Or transfer shield strength... of course why choose this over a Global copy of sci team.
So tanking wise... and why A2B boats are unbalanced. You have RSP on a 1min cool down you have Engi team at 15s... you have Sci Team at 15s... and you have Tac team at 15s. So right there you are easily saving 4 skill slots... or 1 skill slot (RSP) and 6 team doffs. Of course throwing that hazards in there every 30s isn't such a bad thing either. (working around the aux.. or simply popping hazards before you a2b is pretty easy). Honestly long before a2b like 3 years back I used to tell people that had a hard time staying alive to make sure they where using there skills BEFORE they needed them for the resist. So I guess A2B just pushes some of those people to be resisting themselves more often.
The non a2b avenger already is lacking overcap because it can only fit eptw1 and no a2b to help with overcap, on top of that it only has 1 copy of dem not at global so less damage there after DEM3 wears off and less survivability and damage because its running 2 FAW instead of FAW and an attack pattern. Still a decent enough ship to fight, but not the same kind of god mode as the other build which has more dps and surivivability.
that's a horrible build by the way, not sure if that was your intention.
I wouldn't even know where to begin fixing that....
His point is with out the magik of Tech doffs... that is how you keep Faw up all the time... that is how you get 2 copies of RSP.
I am currious now though... with out A2B how would you fix that build ?
How this about for that Avenger?
EPtS1-AtD1-EPtW3-AtS3
HE1-ST2
TT1
FAW1-FAW2
TT1-APD1-APO1
3 Damage Control Engineers, 2 Developmental Lab-ST cooldown, 1 AtD
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
that's a horrible build by the way, not sure if that was your intention.
I wouldn't even know where to begin fixing that....
thats sort of the point, 2x rsp messes the build up. rsp is much more appealing when you can run 1 copy that stays up for 20 sec and can spam it at global, just go to kerrat and see how many people constantly abuse this or in the queues, its becoming ridiculous.
I don't use that exact build but I have a more overpowered one on a tac captain Command Bortasqu that is pretty hard to take down without multiple subnukes and coordinated alpha due to doffed RSP at global, 3 teams at global, and emergency powers with cleanse doff at global, while still putting out high damage. All you have to do to survive with a build like this is RSP when being focused and spam all the other heals to survive during windows when RSP isn't up which this ship as a lot of thanks to teams not sharing cooldown anymore which is also OP.
Command Bortasqu, 3 tech doffs, cleanse doff, rsp doff, and tac team doff
His point is with out the magik of Tech doffs... that is how you keep Faw up all the time... that is how you get 2 copies of RSP.
I am currious now though... with out A2B how would you fix that build ?
I wouldn't fix that build for pvp. I'd go in a such a completely different direction as to make what I would do with it irrelevant to this discussion. It would probably have a2s though, because why wouldn't you hit a2s every 15s with full aux if you didn't have a2b?
for PvE though, I'd probably use 2xfaw1 or one copy of faw1 and one copy of faw2, but I'd have to give it more thought to put a whole build together and real life calls.
TT1, FAW1, FAW2, APB2, EPtW1, ET1, A2S1, EPtS2, RSP2, RSP3, HE1, ST2. 3x DCE+Fab Eng+2xZemok (will require close attention to TT uptime and cooldown, probably a lot of preemptive RSP use needed)
Just a couple of examples of the top of my head. Personally I wouldn't bother with dual RSP anyway, with EPtS3 probably not even with a single copy... Nor with the Avenger for that matter, I much prefer the Galor Although I suppose I am spoiled by my Galor's shield mod, so that is something to take into account. To be honest, I wouldn't run any of those builds because I don't like them, and for PvE I would set it up differently altogether. I don't PvP with A2B cruisers anyway, I use a Norgh instead, which happens to be A2B'ed (TT1, BO2, CRF2, APO3, ET1, EPtE1, A2B1, A2B1, EPtS3, DEM2/RSP2 depending on the way the scales tip in kerrat, TB1, ST2. Much more enjoyable to fly then a cruiser albeit less effective then a non A2B build. It was cheap to setup though, and I'm having fun with it. If I where to run a PvP oriented FAW A2B Avenger, I'd probably go for TT1, TS1, FAW2, APO1, ET1, EPtW1, A2B1, A2B1, EPtS3, DEM3/RSP3 (DEM when teamed with friends, RSP for solo or puggin) HE1, ST2. Swap TS1 for FAW1 and FAW2 for APD1 if you want additional tankyness. Regardless, I still wonder if it is fair to call A2B the problem with regard to cruisers. While A2B contributes to beam DPS by means of overcap, that still seems more of a beam issue then an actual A2B issue. Kinda ironic when you consider that FAW is still underperforming, purely from a mechanics point of view. Personally I consider A2B to be a means to an end, it is relatively cheap (B'Tran), it performs relatively well, and it is easy to understand for newcomers. Yet it is not an end all-fix all solution. You can make ships that do more DPS without A2B, you can make ships that are tankier without A2B. I agree that it is hard to replicate the exact properties of an A2B build without running it, but doesn't that make it a valuable addition to the game? It fills the gap between low DPS high survivability cruisers and high DPS low survivability ones. Just something to contemplate upon for the people writing it off, hopefully.
Perhaps that is where the aversion to A2B for so many PvP'ers and high end DPS'ers lies in, A2B is a bit of a go inbetween, whereas most serious PvP'ers and DPS'ers are focussed on min/max by nature. Water and oil.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
3 Damage Control Engineers, 2 Developmental Lab-ST cooldown, 1 AtD
Solid enough... of course compared to a A2B boat... you have omega half as often and half the time you are doing no dmg with faw 1 up. You have no dem bleed dmg either... and you also don't have an rsp at all never mind one ever 1 min.
Not saying the build is bad... just saying comapred to a A2B boat it has less dps and less tank. Don't get me wrong Sif 3 is a great heal... but it won't match having RSP 1/3 of the time.
Regardless, I still wonder if it is fair to call A2B the problem with regard to cruisers. While A2B contributes to beam DPS by means of overcap, that still seems more of a beam issue then an actual A2B issue. Kinda ironic when you consider that FAW is still underperforming, purely from a mechanics point of view. Personally I consider A2B to be a means to an end, it is relatively cheap (B'Tran), it performs relatively well, and it is easy to understand for newcomers. Yet it is not an end all-fix all solution. You can make ships that do more DPS without A2B, you can make ships that are tankier without A2B. I agree that it is hard to replicate the exact properties of an A2B build without running it, but doesn't that make it a valuable addition to the game? It fills the gap between low DPS high survivability cruisers and high DPS low survivability ones. Just something to contemplate upon for the people writing it off, hopefully.
You can only do more dps without using a2b if it is a superfast run with everyone doing high dps and spamming beta and meshweavers so the STF doesn't take much longer then a minute. Its not so much DPS as its a 1 minute burst of damage. Anything taking longer the a2b ship will start to do more as its taking advantage of having DEM and attack patterns up more. Also the non-a2b scims that can do that crazy 50k-80k dps aren't built to be survivable enough outside of those controlled situations that allow 1 min runs. It would die a lot more then a2b ships on STFs that take a normal amount of time.
I've been doing it for years w/Sc Brel and later Hanom/Mirror Hanom. Way to avoid how you were flat out wrong empirically btw.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Solid enough... of course compared to a A2B boat... you have omega half as often and half the time you are doing no dmg with faw 1 up. You have no dem bleed dmg either... and you also don't have an rsp at all never mind one ever 1 min.
Not saying the build is bad... just saying comapred to a A2B boat it has less dps and less tank. Don't get me wrong Sif 3 is a great heal... but it won't match having RSP 1/3 of the time.
Eh, was just off the top of my head. Whenever I see Tac slots, I automatically think Romulan Tac with Superior Operative. And also the Aux Config-Off thrown in.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Eh, was just off the top of my head. Whenever I see Tac slots, I automatically think Romulan Tac with Superior Operative. And also the Aux Config-Off thrown in.
Ya good point... so many things are a bit sideways with the game. Put a full boat of rom boffs to work and everything always gets better.
After looking at some of the new traits coming with crafting - again - just like the 3 tech doffs there is no consistency in this game:
look at this as an example:
how the R&D Traits work:
Beams ◦On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Cannons ◦On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Projectiles ◦Your Torpedoes and Mines penetrate an extra 10% of your targets shields
So Beam and cannonscots are not powerful enough that they need a 3x stacked trait?
Like escorts really need an extra +3 turn and +3 inertia so they are virtually untouchable??
But in the Torp area - they give a 10% penetration boost but it would be OP if it stacked to 3 as well? I mean people have so much kinetic resist these days - and heck with +3 turn and +3 inertia will torps even ever hit some escorts with EPtE??
There is just no logic in what they are doing.
They need to seriously add some major diminishing returns to all doffs and traits that stack.
After looking at some of the new traits coming with crafting - again - just like the 3 tech doffs there is no consistency in this game:
look at this as an example:
how the R&D Traits work:
Beams ◦On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Cannons ◦On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Projectiles ◦Your Torpedoes and Mines penetrate an extra 10% of your targets shields
So Beam and cannonscots are not powerful enough that they need a 3x stacked trait?
Like escorts really need an extra +3 turn and +3 inertia so they are virtually untouchable??
But in the Torp area - they give a 10% penetration boost but it would be OP if it stacked to 3 as well? I mean people have so much kinetic resist these days - and heck with +3 turn and +3 inertia will torps even ever hit some escorts with EPtE??
There is just no logic in what they are doing.
They need to seriously add some major diminishing returns to all doffs and traits that stack.
Well never mind sideways. The devs have no idea how there own game works is the real issue. I mean even the mostnew player can look at that and ask the obvious. How the heck do you activate 3 cannon or beam skills in 20s. lol
They won't be stacking either.
To be honest though... even +10% torp pen is going to be pretty much OP. As it is my torp boats are very much viable right now with shearing alone. Give me 10% more shield pen which will really be 14% more with shearing... yes its going to get pretty darn good pretty fast. I think 30% bonus pen would be pretty crazy. 20% (cause cryptic doesn't know how things work it seems) bonus would be pretty nuts... it would basicly be 28% bonus dmg with shearing.
Just wait I'll call it now a couple weeks after this crafting trait hits you will see a rash of torp boats.
I'll ignore some hilarious downplaying and even funnier math and logic that is going on here.
Let me just say this.
A2B can be and it is used to completely break game mechanics and disrupt gameplay.
that is done only by people that know what a2b really can do though and are willing to exploit it.
And no, i'm not talking about beamFAW dual a2b cruisers.
And yes it is only because you can stack technicians.
And yes it is only because it's a luitenant BOFF skill.
Simplest solution ever for A2B is to make it Ltcmdr skill.
Or to be able to use just one technician.
BTW
Bonus penetration and shearing on torpedos means nothing.
If you use torpedos correctly, you don't need extra shearing or penetration to kill the target, and it won't help you to kill easier if you do use it.
Bonus penetration and shearing on torpedos means nothing.
If you use torpedos correctly, you don't need extra shearing or penetration to kill the target, and it won't help you to kill easier if you do use it.
Not the way I see it at all. No of course slapping a torp on an escort and just firing it off when ever on auto... having 80% sheering and 50% pen wouldn't make any difference it would suck.
However extra pen when you have a proper torp boat hitting multiple targets as a harasment tactic works extremely well already. Keeping an entire team cross healing like mad leads to kills... and team rolls in premade matches. Its why many premades run torpedo sci ships. The new trait will for sure make those builds more effective. Which is why I countered marks thoughts about stacking on the trait. IMO it would lead to a new heavy torp meta. It would be like faw... no it won't focus one person down... but have 2-3 people on a team spamming torps it starts to get really hard to play against. More pen in combo with shearing will only make that a very good option.
Of course as a torp lover and booster... sure let it stack to 30%... not sure there are enough good teams left in the game to realize its potential anymore.
I don't know... But yes, there are other ways to play beside vaping, I think?
But of course there are other ways.
In fact in new special vid that is coming out in few days
i made a segment Old vs New School. Where I put my Dyson vs my Ar'kif.
So yeah, both kill, both kill fast, and the only difference is in numbers and criticals. Dyson can kill up to 5 guys in 10 secs, or kill a tank through RSP, Ar'kif can kill 2-3max but in 3 secs(with tetryon setup i think it would be able to also wipeout a team but it would probably suck for a style i go for) and that is not a style where you run and come back on alpha.
But I don't consider any of them a vaper. only my thalaron scimi you could call half-vaper.
i meant using HY, not spamming TS for procs.
Even when i use TS( which is often) I set up to kill with it, not to go for proc spam.
My all ships are "torpedo boats" since always. But they all have maximum 2 torpedos and no mines(stopped using mines because of torp/beam/tbr/pets and GW spam)
But yeah, if you exaggerate it like that, having shield pen of 80%, even to 40% on some torps it would completely break the game.
Comments
running 2 copies of rsp instead of a2b also brings it to global cooldown
2x rsp on an avenger that is also running 2 emergency powers will only have 2 other slots they can use for stuff like a2d, a2s, DEM and ET so is doable but not very effective as a2b avenger, it will be low on hull heals or not have DEM so less damage, also you will have to use FAW2 and 3 without an attack pattern or just 2 copies of weaker FAW 1. A2b cruisers will have a lot more heals they are spamming in between rsp cooldowns like ET and ST and more likely to tank better and damage better then an avenger like that.
A2b Avenger, 3 tech doffs, 1 rsp doff, 2 others
TT1, FAW2, APO1
TT1
EPTW1, A2b1, RSP2, DEM3
EPTS1, A2b1
HE1, ST2
vs
non a2b avenger
TT1, FAW2, FAW3
TT1
EPTS1, RSP1, A2D2, DEM3
EPTW1, RSP1
HE1, ST2
The non a2b avenger already is lacking overcap because it can only fit eptw1 and no a2b to help with overcap, on top of that it only has 1 copy of dem not at global so less damage there after DEM3 wears off and less survivability and damage because its running 2 FAW instead of FAW and an attack pattern. Still a decent enough ship to fight, but not the same kind of god mode as the other build which has more dps and surivivability.
Not using a2b means your sci heals are actually useful, and you can use a2s to greater effect as well. I wouldn't use faw3 on an avenger if I had one anyways, nor would I use 2xrsp on a non a2b build for that matter - but someone who uses a2b to max their rsp uptime probably would if a2b were nerfed.
I'm not saying certain builds wouldn't be less effective without a2b, but it's not the gamebreaker people make it out to be. try not using it for a bit, you'll probably be a better player for it.
The aux power makes my heals more effective argument is silly.
1) You don't use your hazards (the only skill most cruisers carry that REQUIRES aux at all) while your aux is at 5. You use it between cycles and have no issues popping it off with a good amount of aux... and you get to pop it off more often because with out A2B its a 45s skill.
2) The only other options that require aux... are A2S which not that many cruisers trying to be DPS cruisers would run anyway even if they didn't run A2B on that global. A2D which is effective even with a pretty low aux number but running that is a single copy a2b ship so aux power for damp is no issue. Or transfer shield strength... of course why choose this over a Global copy of sci team.
So tanking wise... and why A2B boats are unbalanced. You have RSP on a 1min cool down you have Engi team at 15s... you have Sci Team at 15s... and you have Tac team at 15s. So right there you are easily saving 4 skill slots... or 1 skill slot (RSP) and 6 team doffs. Of course throwing that hazards in there every 30s isn't such a bad thing either. (working around the aux.. or simply popping hazards before you a2b is pretty easy). Honestly long before a2b like 3 years back I used to tell people that had a hard time staying alive to make sure they where using there skills BEFORE they needed them for the resist. So I guess A2B just pushes some of those people to be resisting themselves more often.
that's a horrible build by the way, not sure if that was your intention.
I wouldn't even know where to begin fixing that....
His point is with out the magik of Tech doffs... that is how you keep Faw up all the time... that is how you get 2 copies of RSP.
I am currious now though... with out A2B how would you fix that build ?
How this about for that Avenger?
EPtS1-AtD1-EPtW3-AtS3
HE1-ST2
TT1
FAW1-FAW2
TT1-APD1-APO1
3 Damage Control Engineers, 2 Developmental Lab-ST cooldown, 1 AtD
thats sort of the point, 2x rsp messes the build up. rsp is much more appealing when you can run 1 copy that stays up for 20 sec and can spam it at global, just go to kerrat and see how many people constantly abuse this or in the queues, its becoming ridiculous.
I don't use that exact build but I have a more overpowered one on a tac captain Command Bortasqu that is pretty hard to take down without multiple subnukes and coordinated alpha due to doffed RSP at global, 3 teams at global, and emergency powers with cleanse doff at global, while still putting out high damage. All you have to do to survive with a build like this is RSP when being focused and spam all the other heals to survive during windows when RSP isn't up which this ship as a lot of thanks to teams not sharing cooldown anymore which is also OP.
Command Bortasqu, 3 tech doffs, cleanse doff, rsp doff, and tac team doff
TT1, FAW2
EPTW1, A2B1, EPTS3, DEM3
ET1, A2B1, RSP2
HE1, TSS2
ST1
I wouldn't fix that build for pvp. I'd go in a such a completely different direction as to make what I would do with it irrelevant to this discussion. It would probably have a2s though, because why wouldn't you hit a2s every 15s with full aux if you didn't have a2b?
for PvE though, I'd probably use 2xfaw1 or one copy of faw1 and one copy of faw2, but I'd have to give it more thought to put a whole build together and real life calls.
Without A2B max faw uptime with dual RSP?
TT1, TT1, FAW2, FAW3, EPtW1, ET1, A2S1, EPtS2, RSP2, RSP3, HE1, ST2. 3x DCE+Fab Eng+whatever
TT1, TT1, FAW2, FAW3, EPtW1, ET1, A2S1, RSP1, EPtS3, RSP3, HE1, ST2. 3x DCE+Fab Eng+whatever
TT1, TT1, FAW2, FAW3, EPtW1,EPtS1, A2S1, DEM1, RSP2, RSP3, HE1, ST2. 3x DCE+Fab Eng+whatever
TT1, FAW1, FAW2, APB2, EPtW1, ET1, A2S1, EPtS2, RSP2, RSP3, HE1, ST2. 3x DCE+Fab Eng+2xZemok (will require close attention to TT uptime and cooldown, probably a lot of preemptive RSP use needed)
TT1, FAW1, FAW2, APB2, EPtW1, EPtW1, EPtS2, EPtS2, RSP2, RSP3, HE1, ST2. 2xZemok+Fab Eng+TT conn officers
Just a couple of examples of the top of my head. Personally I wouldn't bother with dual RSP anyway, with EPtS3 probably not even with a single copy... Nor with the Avenger for that matter, I much prefer the Galor
Perhaps that is where the aversion to A2B for so many PvP'ers and high end DPS'ers lies in, A2B is a bit of a go inbetween, whereas most serious PvP'ers and DPS'ers are focussed on min/max by nature. Water and oil.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Solid enough... of course compared to a A2B boat... you have omega half as often and half the time you are doing no dmg with faw 1 up. You have no dem bleed dmg either... and you also don't have an rsp at all never mind one ever 1 min.
Not saying the build is bad... just saying comapred to a A2B boat it has less dps and less tank. Don't get me wrong Sif 3 is a great heal... but it won't match having RSP 1/3 of the time.
You can only do more dps without using a2b if it is a superfast run with everyone doing high dps and spamming beta and meshweavers so the STF doesn't take much longer then a minute. Its not so much DPS as its a 1 minute burst of damage. Anything taking longer the a2b ship will start to do more as its taking advantage of having DEM and attack patterns up more. Also the non-a2b scims that can do that crazy 50k-80k dps aren't built to be survivable enough outside of those controlled situations that allow 1 min runs. It would die a lot more then a2b ships on STFs that take a normal amount of time.
I've been doing it for years w/Sc Brel and later Hanom/Mirror Hanom. Way to avoid how you were flat out wrong empirically btw.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Eh, was just off the top of my head. Whenever I see Tac slots, I automatically think Romulan Tac with Superior Operative. And also the Aux Config-Off thrown in.
Ya good point... so many things are a bit sideways with the game. Put a full boat of rom boffs to work and everything always gets better.
Talk about sideways -
I revived my thread on doff and trait stacking:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1145291
After looking at some of the new traits coming with crafting - again - just like the 3 tech doffs there is no consistency in this game:
look at this as an example:
how the R&D Traits work:
Beams ◦On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Cannons ◦On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Projectiles ◦Your Torpedoes and Mines penetrate an extra 10% of your targets shields
So Beam and cannonscots are not powerful enough that they need a 3x stacked trait?
Like escorts really need an extra +3 turn and +3 inertia so they are virtually untouchable??
But in the Torp area - they give a 10% penetration boost but it would be OP if it stacked to 3 as well? I mean people have so much kinetic resist these days - and heck with +3 turn and +3 inertia will torps even ever hit some escorts with EPtE??
There is just no logic in what they are doing.
They need to seriously add some major diminishing returns to all doffs and traits that stack.
Well never mind sideways. The devs have no idea how there own game works is the real issue. I mean even the mostnew player can look at that and ask the obvious. How the heck do you activate 3 cannon or beam skills in 20s. lol
They won't be stacking either.
To be honest though... even +10% torp pen is going to be pretty much OP. As it is my torp boats are very much viable right now with shearing alone. Give me 10% more shield pen which will really be 14% more with shearing... yes its going to get pretty darn good pretty fast. I think 30% bonus pen would be pretty crazy. 20% (cause cryptic doesn't know how things work it seems) bonus would be pretty nuts... it would basicly be 28% bonus dmg with shearing.
Just wait I'll call it now a couple weeks after this crafting trait hits you will see a rash of torp boats.
Let me just say this.
A2B can be and it is used to completely break game mechanics and disrupt gameplay.
that is done only by people that know what a2b really can do though and are willing to exploit it.
And no, i'm not talking about beamFAW dual a2b cruisers.
And yes it is only because you can stack technicians.
And yes it is only because it's a luitenant BOFF skill.
Simplest solution ever for A2B is to make it Ltcmdr skill.
Or to be able to use just one technician.
BTW
Bonus penetration and shearing on torpedos means nothing.
If you use torpedos correctly, you don't need extra shearing or penetration to kill the target, and it won't help you to kill easier if you do use it.
Guaranteed.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Not the way I see it at all. No of course slapping a torp on an escort and just firing it off when ever on auto... having 80% sheering and 50% pen wouldn't make any difference it would suck.
However extra pen when you have a proper torp boat hitting multiple targets as a harasment tactic works extremely well already. Keeping an entire team cross healing like mad leads to kills... and team rolls in premade matches. Its why many premades run torpedo sci ships. The new trait will for sure make those builds more effective. Which is why I countered marks thoughts about stacking on the trait. IMO it would lead to a new heavy torp meta. It would be like faw... no it won't focus one person down... but have 2-3 people on a team spamming torps it starts to get really hard to play against. More pen in combo with shearing will only make that a very good option.
Of course as a torp lover and booster... sure let it stack to 30%... not sure there are enough good teams left in the game to realize its potential anymore.
But of course there are other ways.
In fact in new special vid that is coming out in few days
i made a segment Old vs New School. Where I put my Dyson vs my Ar'kif.
So yeah, both kill, both kill fast, and the only difference is in numbers and criticals. Dyson can kill up to 5 guys in 10 secs, or kill a tank through RSP, Ar'kif can kill 2-3max but in 3 secs(with tetryon setup i think it would be able to also wipeout a team but it would probably suck for a style i go for) and that is not a style where you run and come back on alpha.
But I don't consider any of them a vaper. only my thalaron scimi you could call half-vaper.
i meant using HY, not spamming TS for procs.
Even when i use TS( which is often) I set up to kill with it, not to go for proc spam.
My all ships are "torpedo boats" since always. But they all have maximum 2 torpedos and no mines(stopped using mines because of torp/beam/tbr/pets and GW spam)
But yeah, if you exaggerate it like that, having shield pen of 80%, even to 40% on some torps it would completely break the game.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers