When STO was 'Escorts online', people died. Now everyone flies 'zombie' cruisers and escorts can tank.
This is what an a2b cruiser is to me:
"Hey there. I can't kill you and you can't kill me. Let's waste time." *tank tank tank tank tank*
*spam spam spam spam boff powers* (16 minutes later). "It's a draw." No it's just A2B keeping you alive... :P
I'm sorry, but that is just not true. Back when A2B still shared a global cooldown with EPtX, we still had a 4 piece borg set. Lots of cruisers and escorts (neigh everyone...) where running with 3 piece borg+ MACO/KHG shields, spamming A2S on top. The zombie isn't new to STO, tanking isn't new to STO. PvP is just as broken now as it was then, it's just a different flavour of terrible.
Going by your join date you probably missed the "glorious" golden days of Escorts Online. The biggest difference is that back then your average cruiser *may* have had a chance of tanking escorts, but no chance of killing the escort attacking them. Nowadays an average player with an average build has a chance of tanking, *and* a chance of actually killing someone. That is not such a bad thing in my opinion, it has made PvP more accessible to newcomers/ PvE'ers. I also would like to point out that thanks to changes to the meta, cruisers in general have become a more viable option, so you see more of them. Tacs who felt obliged to run a cannon escort because anything else wasn't competitive now have a choice, which is a good thing. Mind you, FAW back then was not used by anyone, not even PvE'ers, because it was just a joke of a skill. Nowadays FAW is actually underperforming, purely from a mechanics point of view, and its still considered (too) good. Of course, A2B isn't as good as some people like to paint it anyway. Take an Avenger for example, it will perform better DPS wise without A2B. An A2B'ed Avenger will do less DPS, but will be somewhat tankier. A pure zombie, running without A2B will be tankier still. Some people might call that a form of balance.
Aside from all that, you can't blame A2B and A2B alone for the increased tankiness across the board, don't forget to mention rep systems, fleet elite shields, fleet neutroniums, changes to EPtE, etc. Then throw in some lockbox space traits into the mix. Of course, next season will add even more creep into the mix. Hah, remember how they told us they "nerfed" reputation systems to curb in powercreep? They increased effectiveness across the board, making good traits better and not so good traits viable, lol. Not to mention the various new crafted items, they might as well just give them all a [creep] mod, because that's what it is. Powercreep, left unchecked and spreading like a cancer throughout the game.
I understand that people are frustrated with the absolutely terrible mechanics in this game, which becomes more glaringly obvious in PvP, but A2B isn't the problem, its just a symptom of this game's disease. Perhaps instead of continuously making various "Remove/Nerf/Fix/Buff X" threads, people should strive for a thorough look and reworking of some of the core mechanics. You know, fight the disease, and not the symptoms. Then again, a lot of people actually have been doing that, for years in some cases, and haven't seen much of a response if any. Still, this game's main problem is that they keep adding and changing stuff, which is good, because we all want new shinies. Plus it is perfectly reasonable that Cryptic needs to make some money of us, so the new items will have to be appealing to us, which generally means that they add something that is somewhat better then a comparable previous item, and that in itself isn't so bad even. The problem seems to be that they keep adding stuff without actually thinking through the consequences all the way. It's like they make a 10 step plan, but just stop checking at step 5 or 6. TIF is a nice example of that, one person using it is annoying, but ah well. Two is bearable to some extent. Then you encounter 5 people using it and coordinating their cycles. Terrible. If you add stuff like that into the game, you can expect people to use it, and use it so effectively (or trolly:P) as they can. It's just hard to fathom that no one at Cryptic said, "Hey guys, 5 people using this, that wouldn't be a lot of fun for other people would it?"
I wrote a lot more then I intended, and managed to get somewhat sidetracked as well. Hopefully people will bear with me.
Wrapping it up; Don't fight the symptoms, fight the disease!
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
I'm sorry, but that is just not true. Back when A2B still shared a global cooldown with EPtX, we still had a 4 piece borg set. Lots of cruisers and escorts (neigh everyone...) where running with 3 piece borg+ MACO/KHG shields, spamming A2S on top. The zombie isn't new to STO, tanking isn't new to STO. PvP is just as broken now as it was then, it's just a different flavour of terrible.
Going by your join date you probably missed the "glorious" golden days of Escorts Online. The biggest difference is that back then your average cruiser *may* have had a chance of tanking escorts, but no chance of killing the escort attacking them. Nowadays an average player with an average build has a chance of tanking, *and* a chance of actually killing someone. That is not such a bad thing in my opinion, it has made PvP more accessible to newcomers/ PvE'ers. I also would like to point out that thanks to changes to the meta, cruisers in general have become a more viable option, so you see more of them. Tacs who felt obliged to run a cannon escort because anything else wasn't competitive now have a choice, which is a good thing. Mind you, FAW back then was not used by anyone, not even PvE'ers, because it was just a joke of a skill. Nowadays FAW is actually underperforming, purely from a mechanics point of view, and its still considered (too) good. Of course, A2B isn't as good as some people like to paint it anyway. Take an Avenger for example, it will perform better DPS wise without A2B. An A2B'ed Avenger will do less DPS, but will be somewhat tankier. A pure zombie, running without A2B will be tankier still. Some people might call that a form of balance.
Aside from all that, you can't blame A2B and A2B alone for the increased tankiness across the board, don't forget to mention rep systems, fleet elite shields, fleet neutroniums, changes to EPtE, etc. Then throw in some lockbox space traits into the mix. Of course, next season will add even more creep into the mix. Hah, remember how they told us they "nerfed" reputation systems to curb in powercreep? They increased effectiveness across the board, making good traits better and not so good traits viable, lol. Not to mention the various new crafted items, they might as well just give them all a [creep] mod, because that's what it is. Powercreep, left unchecked and spreading like a cancer throughout the game.
I understand that people are frustrated with the absolutely terrible mechanics in this game, which becomes more glaringly obvious in PvP, but A2B isn't the problem, its just a symptom of this game's disease. Perhaps instead of continuously making various "Remove/Nerf/Fix/Buff X" threads, people should strive for a thorough look and reworking of some of the core mechanics. You know, fight the disease, and not the symptoms. Then again, a lot of people actually have been doing that, for years in some cases, and haven't seen much of a response if any. Still, this game's main problem is that they keep adding and changing stuff, which is good, because we all want new shinies. Plus it is perfectly reasonable that Cryptic needs to make some money of us, so the new items will have to be appealing to us, which generally means that they add something that is somewhat better then a comparable previous item, and that in itself isn't so bad even. The problem seems to be that they keep adding stuff without actually thinking through the consequences all the way. It's like they make a 10 step plan, but just stop checking at step 5 or 6. TIF is a nice example of that, one person using it is annoying, but ah well. Two is bearable to some extent. Then you encounter 5 people using it and coordinating their cycles. Terrible. If you add stuff like that into the game, you can expect people to use it, and use it so effectively (or trolly:P) as they can. It's just hard to fathom that no one at Cryptic said, "Hey guys, 5 people using this, that wouldn't be a lot of fun for other people would it?"
I wrote a lot more then I intended, and managed to get somewhat sidetracked as well. Hopefully people will bear with me.
Wrapping it up; Don't fight the symptoms, fight the disease!
I agree with you, but the "power creep" doesn't have to be a negative thing. It's not like they are holding back anything.. Everyone has access to the same items. The problem lies towards what seems to be the general attitude of many players. I look at this game, and I see the only game i know of, that provides the players with such diversity and possibilities on how to setup your build/character. Because of this, there will be changes in the meta all the time. And because some people apparently does not have the "will" to see the endless possibilities you have on how to setup your ship, there will be complaining about this... the problem i have with this, is that this attitude has a tendency to spread to other players...... and this is what imo is what is killing PVP the most.
Instead there should of been a thriving community of sharing ideas and information about builds, what synergies works well with this and that...
So yeah, fight the disease! Stop complaining and instead explore the endless possibilities this game offers you.
ps. allthough PVP in general could use abit of love from the devs... nothing much.. leaderboards, more battlezones purely for pvp... and a zone with no reset would be nice.. *:)
"Better were the days when mastery o' space came not from bargains struck with eldritch creatures... but from the sweat of a man's brow and the strength of his back alone. Ye all know thi's to be true!"
oh my gosh the outrage. You should go on holiday lol
that's for sure, AtB makes a real difference for Cruiser which want to tank more and do more than supporting.
To duplicate a setup like this on Avenger ... TT1/CRF1/APO1 - TT1 - ET1/ATB1/EPTS3/DEM3 - EPTE/ATD1 - TSS1/HE2. How bankrupt do you need to go to make an equally effective one without technicians doffs? Too much probably.
IMO, this AtB problem doesn't have to do with cruisers, but escorts.
Someone said bug would be the only choice of ship if it wasn't for AtB. As far as I know, we have three kind of COM tac ships that can double AtB: Hunter, Tempest, Nicor.
That's awesome! Now I can compete with a bug without owning a bug! Great, I only had to destroy ships like Defiant and Prometheus to do so. What are these ships anymore?
I still think AtB should be restricted on any kind of escorts.
Tech doffs include all of this in one set of doffs...
3 Tech doffs =
> then 3 Dmg Control (EPTx... only with no RNG involved)
+
> then 3 Deflector doffs (no RNG invovled... granted sci ships don't a2b as often)
+ 2 Dev lab (sci team)
+ 2 Conn officers (attack pattern)
+ 2 Conn officer (tac team)
+ 2 Maint doffs (engi team)
+ 2 Photonic doffs
+ > then 3 Energy Weapon (cannon)
+ > then 3 Energy Weapon (beam skill)
+ > then 3 Energy Weapon (target subs)
Things they do that have no equivalent doff.
- RSP cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1 RSP)
- DEM cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1 DEM)
- Tractor Beam cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1)
- TBR cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1 TBR)
- Aceton cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1 Aceton)
- CPB cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1 CPB)
- Scramble cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1)
- Viral Matrix cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1)
- Hazard Emit cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1)
- Transfer Shield S cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1)
- Extend Shields cooled down 30% per activation (there is no other doff that can give you 2 for 1)
So everyone that defends these things needs to get real. People that say "they just need to buff the other doffs" need to learn to count. By my estimation (Assuming the skills with no cool down doffs had doffs added to the game)...... 3 Tech doffs replace a Max of 44 doffs. For most peoples builds they will be replacing anywhere from 10-20 doffs. (again assuming that half the things they are cooling down had another doff option in existence... also assuming for balance reasons they wouldn't be givin RNG roles WHICH they would.)
Tech doffs also reduce the CD on the set bonus provided with the breen 3 piece set power. The Breen Energy Syphon.
The build is OP and any one how says other wise is using A2B. Just make the cool down 1 min and shared copy has same cool down. So you can only use a2b once every min. Or u can only have one tech doff or let it only affect Eptx skills
The main reason why people want this OP build is because casual players want to rush through all the content they can in the hour or so they play each night. A2B allows that 5 min Pve ques and move on to the next. Other issue is ego. It used to be "I did 10k dps". Then 15 then 20 etc. a2b is ego ego ego, I can do more then you attuide. These fanboys don't want nerf because they will do less dps and feel small again.
Stop the A2B fanboys
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
The build is OP and any one how says other wise is using A2B. Just make the cool down 1 min and shared copy has same cool down. So you can only use a2b once every min. Or u can only have one tech doff or let it only affect Eptx skills
The main reason why people want this OP build is because casual players want to rush through all the content they can in the hour or so they play each night. A2B allows that 5 min Pve ques and move on to the next. Other issue is ego. It used to be "I did 10k dps". Then 15 then 20 etc. a2b is ego ego ego, I can do more then you attuide. These fanboys don't want nerf because they will do less dps and feel small again.
Stop the A2B fanboys
So many questions...
Why are you hitting A2B with the PvE DPS stick on the PvP forums? Do you really think 5 minutes for elite PvE content is fast? Are you aware that A2B does less DPS then non-A2B builds? What is wrong with an "I can do more then you" attitude? What is wrong with people improving their builds and gameplay? Why do you seem so butthurt? Do you even have a clue what you are talking about? Are you a troll?
So many questions...
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Tech doffs also reduce the CD on the set bonus provided with the breen 3 piece set power. The Breen Energy Syphon.
That breen set's 3 piece bonus is the worst junk in this game, and I'm surprised a MK XII VR version with ES3 hasn't been made available as a lobi upgrade.
oh my gosh the outrage. You should go on holiday lol
that's for sure, AtB makes a real difference for Cruiser which want to tank more and do more than supporting.
To duplicate a setup like this on Avenger ... TT1/CRF1/APO1 - TT1 - ET1/ATB1/EPTS3/DEM3 - EPTE/ATD1 - TSS1/HE2. How bankrupt do you need to go to make an equally effective one without technicians doffs? Too much probably.
IMO, this AtB problem doesn't have to do with cruisers, but escorts.
Someone said bug would be the only choice of ship if it wasn't for AtB. As far as I know, we have three kind of COM tac ships that can double AtB: Hunter, Tempest, Nicor.
That's awesome! Now I can compete with a bug without owning a bug! Great, I only had to destroy ships like Defiant and Prometheus to do so. What are these ships anymore?
I still think AtB should be restricted on any kind of escorts.
its really not even a problem on escorts ether. all it really does for escorts compared to non AtB escorts is make them more tanky, and you don't have a need for attack pattern doffs. play any match with a good healer, and that pug friendly AtB self sustainability stops becoming an advantage.
- the bug still has more HP and spike soak
- 20 turn rate, 4 eng consoles
- highest impulse mod
- a combination of these things makes them the best dueling platform, and the hardest escort to engage with another escort
When you type things like that you lose all credibility. The rest of your post was wasted on all except other children that talk the same. The adults are just reminded why we keep our children in-line and off forums. Since you sound 13ish I am guessing you have not figured this out yet.
Most people's complaints about a2b seem to have less to do with a2b than they do with running 2 copies of various skills anyways
Fact is most ships don't need a2b anyways since they can run 2xTT and 2xbfaw while cycling apb with attack pattern doffs - the scimitar certainly doesn't need it, as proved by the 83k ISE record having being set by a non-a2b scim, yet this is the ship most people complain about when crying over a2b
so let cryptic nerf a2b, all it means is people will fly other ships that don't require it.
How is using rsp with the doff and having it up for 20 seconds then lowering it to global cooldown with technicians fair? RSP is up 33% of the time, that was not what was intended when an invincibility skill like this was designed. The time its not up you can still easily survive because you can now spam TT, ET, and ST at near global cd also because shared cooldowns for teams were removed.
I don't think an across the board nerf for a2b is needed, but something needs to be done about using RSP with it, and yes it will nerf me to because I do use a a2b Sci Bortas that spams all 3 teams and doffed RSP sometimes so I know its not fair.
Either technicians shouldn't affect RSP, or a2b should start a cooldown on RSP, or link RSP effectiveness to aux power.
Either technicians shouldn't affect RSP, or a2b should start a cooldown on RSP, or link RSP effectiveness to aux power.
So lets hypothetically say a2b gets nerfed. That's 2 eng stations that are now freed. what do you think people who use a2b to extend rsp uptime will put in those slots?
Most people's complaints about a2b seem to have less to do with a2b than they do with running 2 copies of various skills anyways
Fact is most ships don't need a2b anyways since they can run 2xTT and 2xbfaw while cycling apb with attack pattern doffs - the scimitar certainly doesn't need it, as proved by the 83k ISE record having being set by a non-a2b scim, yet this is the ship most people complain about when crying over a2b
so let cryptic nerf a2b, all it means is people will fly other ships that don't require it.
You are mistaken on a couple of issues.
1. Assuming 2 copies of a boff ability = a2b w/1 copy (which it doesn't alway do) then there are now N# of open Boff slots to use for other things such as Sci Counters, Sci Debuffs, Extra Damage Sources, and/or Repairs.
2. There are builds that effectively Double the effectiveness of the Commander Boff that NO other build can do. For example, GW has 1 minute cooldown, if using GW3 w/GW1 there will be a 45 second (shared cooldown) delay between GW activiations, but 90 seconds between GW3 uptime. This is similar w/APO3, DEM3, etc.
Further, combine a GW doff w/the 2nd GW example using a single a2batt build and you can actually be able have a large uptime on GW procs AND toss in a Tykens while GW is up despite the GW/Tykens shared cooldown.
It's long been a myth that Sci ships and BC ships can't take advantage of Aux2batt. Lt Eng is all that is needed though Lt Eng w/Ens Eng layout is better b/c have 2x EPtX has so many advantages. Regarding Escorts and Hybrids, aux2batt w/tech doffs & cleanse doff & aux2damp doffs negates a great deal of Sci which had been designed long ago as the counter to escorts. Even Attack Pattern Doffs caused an issue w/Escorts and was why they really started taking off in their hey day.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
1. Assuming 2 copies of a boff ability = a2b w/1 copy (which it doesn't alway do) then there are now N# of open Boff slots to use for other things such as Sci Counters, Sci Debuffs, Extra Damage Sources, and/or Repairs.
2. There are builds that effectively Double the effectiveness of the Commander Boff that NO other build can do. For example, GW has 1 minute cooldown, if using GW3 w/GW1 there will be a 45 second (shared cooldown) delay between GW activiations, but 90 seconds between GW3 uptime. This is similar w/APO3, DEM3, etc.
Further, combine a GW doff w/the 2nd GW example using a single a2batt build and you can actually be able have a large uptime on GW procs AND toss in a Tykens while GW is up despite the GW/Tykens shared cooldown.
It's long been a myth that Sci ships and BC ships can't take advantage of Aux2batt. Lt Eng is all that is needed though Lt Eng w/Ens Eng layout is better b/c have 2x EPtX has so many advantages. Regarding Escorts and Hybrids, aux2batt w/tech doffs & cleanse doff & aux2damp doffs negates a great deal of Sci which had been designed long ago as the counter to escorts. Even Attack Pattern Doffs caused an issue w/Escorts and was why they really started taking off in their hey day.
So lets hypothetically say a2b gets nerfed. That's 2 eng stations that are now freed. what do you think people who use a2b to extend rsp uptime will put in those slots?
Iif it is just nerfed in regards to RSP like I sugested then they could replace it with DEM, Warp plasma, Extend shields, or even less useful skills like aceton beam or boarding party.
Or if not running a2b anymore then the a2b can be replaced with a2d or a2s.
Iif it is just nerfed in regards to RSP like I sugested then they could replace it with DEM, Warp plasma, Extend shields, or even less useful skills like aceton beam or boarding party.
suggest all you want, but most likely they'd replace it with another copy of rsp and continue cycling it merrily while you qq about it.
personally I hope they nerf a2b. it won't affect any of my builds except for an NWS dhelan I don't fly anymore anyway, and it would make ppl qq about something else
Iif it is just nerfed in regards to RSP like I sugested then they could replace it with DEM, Warp plasma, Extend shields, or even less useful skills like aceton beam or boarding party.
If it's just nerfed in regard to RSP, and that persons goal was to have max RSP uptime, why would they slot anything other then RSP on the slots that where initially used for A2B. If you have a problem with the uptime potential of RSP, you should address the doff that is actually causing that which you perceive as a problem, the purple fabrication engineer.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
suggest all you want, but most likely they'd replace it with another copy of rsp and continue cycling it merrily while you qq about it.
personally I hope they nerf a2b. it won't affect any of my builds except for an NWS dhelan I don't fly anymore anyway, and it would make ppl qq about something else
here you are saying you hope a2B gets nerfed but forgot in the previous sentence you just criticized me for "QQ" about a2b.
You also didn't read the part where I said I use it to and still want some type of balance.
Please learn to make sense or stop wasting my time.
If it's just nerfed in regard to RSP, and that persons goal was to have max RSP uptime, why would they slot anything other then RSP on the slots that where initially used for A2B. If you have a problem with the uptime potential of RSP, you should address the doff that is actually causing that which you perceive as a problem, the purple fabrication engineer.
If they are running 2 copies of rsp on a non a2b build it is a tank, not both a tank and dps cruiser anymore so I can ignore it. It also isn't the best set up for a healer either, just something people can forget about.
here you are saying you hope a2B gets nerfed but forgot in the previous sentence you just criticized me for "QQ" about a2b.
You also didn't read the part where I said I use it to and still want some type of balance.
Please learn to make sense or stop wasting my time.
If they are running 2 copies of rsp on a non a2b build it is a tank, not both a tank and dps cruiser anymore so I can ignore it. It also isn't the best set up for a healer either, just something people can forget about.
Yes, I hope it gets nerfed so that you can see that a2b is not the problem and stop qq'ing about it. Try to keep up.
Also please explain why someone couldn't throw 2x bfaw, 2x tt, and 2x rsp on an Avenger and 'be a tank and a dps cruiser'.
Yes, I hope it gets nerfed so that you can see that a2b is not the problem and stop qq'ing about it. Try to keep up.
Also please explain why someone couldn't throw 2x bfaw, 2x tt, and 2x rsp on an Avenger and 'be a tank and a dps cruiser'.
Nice try, you want it nerfed only because it won't affect your builds as you said earlier. I abuse the heck out of a2b on several ships so I could hardly be "QQing", I am simply trying to have some balance with the worse most overpowered aspects of it that I know from my own experience abusing it. Anyway you continue to be obnoxious and rude so I have nothing further to say to you, if you want to see if that works try it in kerrat where I am at everyday. Or if it isn't so overpowerd you can take on 1 of my a2b ships 1v1. Find me there or 1v1 or stop wasting my time.
Nice try, you want it nerfed only because it won't affect your builds as you said earlier. I abuse the heck out of a2b on several ships so I could hardly be "QQing", I am simply trying to have some balance with the worse most overpowered aspects of it that I know from my own experience abusing it. Anyway you continue to be obnoxious and rude so I have nothing further to say to you, if you want to see if that works try it in kerrat where I am at everyday. Or if it isn't so overpowerd you can take on 1 of my a2b ships 1v1. Find me there or 1v1 or stop wasting my time.
You are not reading what he says, he wants it nerfed because then people will find out A2B actually was not the thing ruining PvP, which will cause them to look for the next dead horse to kick. I use A2B on my Norgh for exactly 1 reason. It is cheap. 3x Purple techs via B'Tran, blue shield distro doff, blue tractor beam doff, blue conn officer for evasive. While it is less effective then a proper non A2B build DPS wise, it works well enough in kerrat. I don't mind people calling it a crutch, I don't mind them hating on it. In fact, the moment someone gives me a couple 100 mil EC to doff my ship out properly, I will doff it properly. In a heartbeat.
I dare you to take away my crutch, sponsor me with proper doffs!
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Nice try, you want it nerfed only because it won't affect your builds as you said earlier. I abuse the heck out of a2b on several ships so I could hardly be "QQing", I am simply trying to have some balance with the worse most overpowered aspects of it that I know from my own experience abusing it. Anyway you continue to be obnoxious and rude so I have nothing further to say to you, if you want to see if that works try it in kerrat where I am at everyday, and stop wasting my time.
Well, I used to use a2b on a few ships before I really knew how to put together a proper build that doesn't need it. It's a great crutch for new players to be able to compete with more experienced players though, or for outdated ships to be somewhat more useful. Personally I couldn't care less if it was nerfed, other than to make people like yourself realize that it won't make that much of a difference to those people who can adapt to not using it - but really the players who will suffer most from an a2b nerf are new and casual players. Specifically the demographic that cryptic caters to most.
You are not reading what he says, he wants it nerfed because then people will find out A2B actually was not the thing ruining PvP, which will cause them to look for the next dead horse to kick. I use A2B on my Norgh for exactly 1 reason. It is cheap. 3x Purple techs via B'Tran, blue shield distro doff, blue tractor beam doff, blue conn officer for evasive. While it is less effective then a proper non A2B build DPS wise, it works well enough in kerrat. I don't mind people calling it a crutch, I don't mind them hating on it. In fact, the moment someone gives me a couple 100 mil EC to doff my ship out properly, I will doff it properly.
I dare you to take away my crutch, sponsor me with proper doffs!
You are not reading what he says, he wants it nerfed because then people will find out A2B actually was not the thing ruining PvP, which will cause them to look for the next dead horse to kick. I use A2B on my Norgh for exactly 1 reason. It is cheap. 3x Purple techs via B'Tran, blue shield distro doff, blue tractor beam doff, blue conn officer for evasive. While it is less effective then a proper non A2B build DPS wise, it works well enough in kerrat. I don't mind people calling it a crutch, I don't mind them hating on it. In fact, the moment someone gives me a couple 100 mil EC to doff my ship out properly, I will doff it properly. In a heartbeat.
I dare you to take away my crutch, sponsor me with proper doffs!
Its not ruining pvp as much as other stuff, which is why I have said it doesn't need a total nerf. However PVP would be much more fun without everyone using 20 second rsp and willing to constantly spam it because they can lower it to global cooldown because of a2b. RSP is balanced when its on a long cooldown, but its overpowered when its cooldown is at global and is doffed so that synergy needs a nerf. RSP is up 1/3 of the time with a2b builds and purple rsp doff.
Comments
I'm sorry, but that is just not true. Back when A2B still shared a global cooldown with EPtX, we still had a 4 piece borg set. Lots of cruisers and escorts (neigh everyone...) where running with 3 piece borg+ MACO/KHG shields, spamming A2S on top. The zombie isn't new to STO, tanking isn't new to STO. PvP is just as broken now as it was then, it's just a different flavour of terrible.
Going by your join date you probably missed the "glorious" golden days of Escorts Online. The biggest difference is that back then your average cruiser *may* have had a chance of tanking escorts, but no chance of killing the escort attacking them. Nowadays an average player with an average build has a chance of tanking, *and* a chance of actually killing someone. That is not such a bad thing in my opinion, it has made PvP more accessible to newcomers/ PvE'ers. I also would like to point out that thanks to changes to the meta, cruisers in general have become a more viable option, so you see more of them. Tacs who felt obliged to run a cannon escort because anything else wasn't competitive now have a choice, which is a good thing. Mind you, FAW back then was not used by anyone, not even PvE'ers, because it was just a joke of a skill. Nowadays FAW is actually underperforming, purely from a mechanics point of view, and its still considered (too) good. Of course, A2B isn't as good as some people like to paint it anyway. Take an Avenger for example, it will perform better DPS wise without A2B. An A2B'ed Avenger will do less DPS, but will be somewhat tankier. A pure zombie, running without A2B will be tankier still. Some people might call that a form of balance.
Aside from all that, you can't blame A2B and A2B alone for the increased tankiness across the board, don't forget to mention rep systems, fleet elite shields, fleet neutroniums, changes to EPtE, etc. Then throw in some lockbox space traits into the mix. Of course, next season will add even more creep into the mix. Hah, remember how they told us they "nerfed" reputation systems to curb in powercreep? They increased effectiveness across the board, making good traits better and not so good traits viable, lol. Not to mention the various new crafted items, they might as well just give them all a [creep] mod, because that's what it is. Powercreep, left unchecked and spreading like a cancer throughout the game.
I understand that people are frustrated with the absolutely terrible mechanics in this game, which becomes more glaringly obvious in PvP, but A2B isn't the problem, its just a symptom of this game's disease. Perhaps instead of continuously making various "Remove/Nerf/Fix/Buff X" threads, people should strive for a thorough look and reworking of some of the core mechanics. You know, fight the disease, and not the symptoms. Then again, a lot of people actually have been doing that, for years in some cases, and haven't seen much of a response if any. Still, this game's main problem is that they keep adding and changing stuff, which is good, because we all want new shinies. Plus it is perfectly reasonable that Cryptic needs to make some money of us, so the new items will have to be appealing to us, which generally means that they add something that is somewhat better then a comparable previous item, and that in itself isn't so bad even. The problem seems to be that they keep adding stuff without actually thinking through the consequences all the way. It's like they make a 10 step plan, but just stop checking at step 5 or 6. TIF is a nice example of that, one person using it is annoying, but ah well. Two is bearable to some extent. Then you encounter 5 people using it and coordinating their cycles. Terrible. If you add stuff like that into the game, you can expect people to use it, and use it so effectively (or trolly:P) as they can. It's just hard to fathom that no one at Cryptic said, "Hey guys, 5 people using this, that wouldn't be a lot of fun for other people would it?"
I wrote a lot more then I intended, and managed to get somewhat sidetracked as well. Hopefully people will bear with me.
Wrapping it up; Don't fight the symptoms, fight the disease!
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree with you, but the "power creep" doesn't have to be a negative thing. It's not like they are holding back anything.. Everyone has access to the same items. The problem lies towards what seems to be the general attitude of many players. I look at this game, and I see the only game i know of, that provides the players with such diversity and possibilities on how to setup your build/character. Because of this, there will be changes in the meta all the time. And because some people apparently does not have the "will" to see the endless possibilities you have on how to setup your ship, there will be complaining about this... the problem i have with this, is that this attitude has a tendency to spread to other players...... and this is what imo is what is killing PVP the most.
Instead there should of been a thriving community of sharing ideas and information about builds, what synergies works well with this and that...
So yeah, fight the disease! Stop complaining and instead explore the endless possibilities this game offers you.
ps. allthough PVP in general could use abit of love from the devs... nothing much.. leaderboards, more battlezones purely for pvp... and a zone with no reset would be nice.. *:)
that's for sure, AtB makes a real difference for Cruiser which want to tank more and do more than supporting.
To duplicate a setup like this on Avenger ... TT1/CRF1/APO1 - TT1 - ET1/ATB1/EPTS3/DEM3 - EPTE/ATD1 - TSS1/HE2. How bankrupt do you need to go to make an equally effective one without technicians doffs? Too much probably.
IMO, this AtB problem doesn't have to do with cruisers, but escorts.
Someone said bug would be the only choice of ship if it wasn't for AtB. As far as I know, we have three kind of COM tac ships that can double AtB: Hunter, Tempest, Nicor.
That's awesome! Now I can compete with a bug without owning a bug! Great, I only had to destroy ships like Defiant and Prometheus to do so. What are these ships anymore?
I still think AtB should be restricted on any kind of escorts.
Tech doffs also reduce the CD on the set bonus provided with the breen 3 piece set power. The Breen Energy Syphon.
The main reason why people want this OP build is because casual players want to rush through all the content they can in the hour or so they play each night. A2B allows that 5 min Pve ques and move on to the next. Other issue is ego. It used to be "I did 10k dps". Then 15 then 20 etc. a2b is ego ego ego, I can do more then you attuide. These fanboys don't want nerf because they will do less dps and feel small again.
Stop the A2B fanboys
So many questions...
Why are you hitting A2B with the PvE DPS stick on the PvP forums? Do you really think 5 minutes for elite PvE content is fast? Are you aware that A2B does less DPS then non-A2B builds? What is wrong with an "I can do more then you" attitude? What is wrong with people improving their builds and gameplay? Why do you seem so butthurt? Do you even have a clue what you are talking about? Are you a troll?
So many questions...
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That breen set's 3 piece bonus is the worst junk in this game, and I'm surprised a MK XII VR version with ES3 hasn't been made available as a lobi upgrade.
its really not even a problem on escorts ether. all it really does for escorts compared to non AtB escorts is make them more tanky, and you don't have a need for attack pattern doffs. play any match with a good healer, and that pug friendly AtB self sustainability stops becoming an advantage.
- the bug still has more HP and spike soak
- 20 turn rate, 4 eng consoles
- highest impulse mod
- a combination of these things makes them the best dueling platform, and the hardest escort to engage with another escort
When you type things like that you lose all credibility. The rest of your post was wasted on all except other children that talk the same. The adults are just reminded why we keep our children in-line and off forums. Since you sound 13ish I am guessing you have not figured this out yet.
Fact is most ships don't need a2b anyways since they can run 2xTT and 2xbfaw while cycling apb with attack pattern doffs - the scimitar certainly doesn't need it, as proved by the 83k ISE record having being set by a non-a2b scim, yet this is the ship most people complain about when crying over a2b
so let cryptic nerf a2b, all it means is people will fly other ships that don't require it.
I don't think an across the board nerf for a2b is needed, but something needs to be done about using RSP with it, and yes it will nerf me to because I do use a a2b Sci Bortas that spams all 3 teams and doffed RSP sometimes so I know its not fair.
Either technicians shouldn't affect RSP, or a2b should start a cooldown on RSP, or link RSP effectiveness to aux power.
So lets hypothetically say a2b gets nerfed. That's 2 eng stations that are now freed. what do you think people who use a2b to extend rsp uptime will put in those slots?
You are mistaken on a couple of issues.
1. Assuming 2 copies of a boff ability = a2b w/1 copy (which it doesn't alway do) then there are now N# of open Boff slots to use for other things such as Sci Counters, Sci Debuffs, Extra Damage Sources, and/or Repairs.
2. There are builds that effectively Double the effectiveness of the Commander Boff that NO other build can do. For example, GW has 1 minute cooldown, if using GW3 w/GW1 there will be a 45 second (shared cooldown) delay between GW activiations, but 90 seconds between GW3 uptime. This is similar w/APO3, DEM3, etc.
Further, combine a GW doff w/the 2nd GW example using a single a2batt build and you can actually be able have a large uptime on GW procs AND toss in a Tykens while GW is up despite the GW/Tykens shared cooldown.
It's long been a myth that Sci ships and BC ships can't take advantage of Aux2batt. Lt Eng is all that is needed though Lt Eng w/Ens Eng layout is better b/c have 2x EPtX has so many advantages. Regarding Escorts and Hybrids, aux2batt w/tech doffs & cleanse doff & aux2damp doffs negates a great deal of Sci which had been designed long ago as the counter to escorts. Even Attack Pattern Doffs caused an issue w/Escorts and was why they really started taking off in their hey day.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
a2b sci build?
ok homie, you do that
Iif it is just nerfed in regards to RSP like I sugested then they could replace it with DEM, Warp plasma, Extend shields, or even less useful skills like aceton beam or boarding party.
Or if not running a2b anymore then the a2b can be replaced with a2d or a2s.
suggest all you want, but most likely they'd replace it with another copy of rsp and continue cycling it merrily while you qq about it.
personally I hope they nerf a2b. it won't affect any of my builds except for an NWS dhelan I don't fly anymore anyway, and it would make ppl qq about something else
If it's just nerfed in regard to RSP, and that persons goal was to have max RSP uptime, why would they slot anything other then RSP on the slots that where initially used for A2B. If you have a problem with the uptime potential of RSP, you should address the doff that is actually causing that which you perceive as a problem, the purple fabrication engineer.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
here you are saying you hope a2B gets nerfed but forgot in the previous sentence you just criticized me for "QQ" about a2b.
You also didn't read the part where I said I use it to and still want some type of balance.
Please learn to make sense or stop wasting my time.
If they are running 2 copies of rsp on a non a2b build it is a tank, not both a tank and dps cruiser anymore so I can ignore it. It also isn't the best set up for a healer either, just something people can forget about.
I have 3 purples on 4 or 5 characters but I wouldn't mind this at all. I doubt the devs would go that far though.
Yes, I hope it gets nerfed so that you can see that a2b is not the problem and stop qq'ing about it. Try to keep up.
Also please explain why someone couldn't throw 2x bfaw, 2x tt, and 2x rsp on an Avenger and 'be a tank and a dps cruiser'.
Nice try, you want it nerfed only because it won't affect your builds as you said earlier. I abuse the heck out of a2b on several ships so I could hardly be "QQing", I am simply trying to have some balance with the worse most overpowered aspects of it that I know from my own experience abusing it. Anyway you continue to be obnoxious and rude so I have nothing further to say to you, if you want to see if that works try it in kerrat where I am at everyday. Or if it isn't so overpowerd you can take on 1 of my a2b ships 1v1. Find me there or 1v1 or stop wasting my time.
You are not reading what he says, he wants it nerfed because then people will find out A2B actually was not the thing ruining PvP, which will cause them to look for the next dead horse to kick. I use A2B on my Norgh for exactly 1 reason. It is cheap. 3x Purple techs via B'Tran, blue shield distro doff, blue tractor beam doff, blue conn officer for evasive. While it is less effective then a proper non A2B build DPS wise, it works well enough in kerrat. I don't mind people calling it a crutch, I don't mind them hating on it. In fact, the moment someone gives me a couple 100 mil EC to doff my ship out properly, I will doff it properly. In a heartbeat.
I dare you to take away my crutch, sponsor me with proper doffs!
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well, I used to use a2b on a few ships before I really knew how to put together a proper build that doesn't need it. It's a great crutch for new players to be able to compete with more experienced players though, or for outdated ships to be somewhat more useful. Personally I couldn't care less if it was nerfed, other than to make people like yourself realize that it won't make that much of a difference to those people who can adapt to not using it - but really the players who will suffer most from an a2b nerf are new and casual players. Specifically the demographic that cryptic caters to most.
HAHAHAHAHA
crutch!
Its not ruining pvp as much as other stuff, which is why I have said it doesn't need a total nerf. However PVP would be much more fun without everyone using 20 second rsp and willing to constantly spam it because they can lower it to global cooldown because of a2b. RSP is balanced when its on a long cooldown, but its overpowered when its cooldown is at global and is doffed so that synergy needs a nerf. RSP is up 1/3 of the time with a2b builds and purple rsp doff.