Of course this is ignoring the fact KDF consoles were better, kinda hard not to having a unfair trade when KDF consoles were simply better, heck ships too were pretty much the KDF have a strong lineup of free ships, same isnt true Fed side.
KDF whined about losing a ship type they never had.
Show me a KDF smallcraft in the shows ... go on, at the point you can prove the Klingon Defense Force used small attack craft in the show then you have half a point because its only HALF a point since Romulans and the Federation certainly DID, there is WITHOUT QUESTION a Federation small attack craft, THERE ISNT a Klingon one.
I dont recall any posts about the Defiant, I do remember some about the Aquarius that were very fast shoot down by a developer but since I am at it, the fact is the Aquarius is a the worst ship in the entire game, its BoP without a claok, are you going to tell me with a strait face the Aquarius is fine?
People brought it up because of the Aquarius being a "almost" BoP having none of the strengths and all of the weakness.
Since the Nebula?
Plus can I start going over the KDF lineup and show exactly how many pre-Nebula KDF ships had universal seats?
Well when Feds start lying and act like a victim they will be like the KDF.
Because thats what you do, you lie ... you complain about Universal seats when NO KDF SHIP had then outside the BoPs that are ALL UNIVERSAL, when the Nebula come out we started to see ships with SOME universal seats, the ALL UNIVERSAL still remains in the BoP domain because the ship was designed as suck and balanced as such.
Carriers? the moaning and screaming about then from the KDF always been UTTER RIDICULOUS since THEY NEVER HAD THEN in canon, even Klingon small craft are hard to find even and ******** about cloak ... well ..
I remember a very amusing tread in general were someone said that Klingon Cloak should be superior to Romulan ... yes, that happened so before you go accusing others from engaging on "entitlement" (here is another word that people parrot without understanding the meaning) you better start looking at your own backyard, oh I am not excusing the flanking on the Aquarius or something as a "universal - cloaking console" without restrictions but still, there is a proper tone and way to address things, proper discussion that apparently some people are incapable of doing.
This threads always result in the same thing, someone asks about it and almost immediate the same usual suspects from the KDF backyard show up doing the same OLD TIRED VICTIM ROUTINE!
Heck the KDF must be a really interesting place since their players apparently spend more time on the Federation subforums that on their own.
Also since we are talking about entitlement ... how is your Mogh Battle Cruiser doing? you know ... A EXACT COPY OF THE AVENGER WITH A BUILD-IN CLOAK ABILITY? Oh right, better complain about those Op Scimitars ...
Oh and next time I read about KDF wanting a science ship? I be sure to point out Science Ships are the Federation uniqueness ... or when some KDF entitled player complains about KDF not having all 4 cruiser commands.
Oh boy, this is a doozy of a post.
KDF consoles are better. Won't deny it. Who's fault is it? Cryptic's. They gave the better consoles to the KDF, and what did Feds do? Whine and moan until most of em were nerfed or given eventually. Instead of...y'know, maybe asking for less crummy consoles Fed side and/or buffing them more. In the end though, they still CHOSE to do the console trades irregardless.
Fine, there is no small attack craft in any of the shows that was ever seen. BUT that doesn't mean that attack craft =/= carrier. Just because a real life nation has fighter jets doesn't mean it automatically has an aircraft carrier.
However, the devs DID choose to give the KDF carriers in the game. And...Feds whined until they got the Atrox.
The Aquarius does suck, I don't think anyone is gonna argue that. It deserves some kind of fix. And there have been posts and threads made by people asking for the Defiant to be made into a raider, or otherwise asking for a similar thing.
Yes, full uni set-up is still only seen on the BoPs, that is true. But giving universal set ups to various ships, Fed or not ever since has made a long trend of ships that have unis (sometimes powerful Lt. Cmdr or Cmdr unis I might add) and not having to really pay any cost for them.
I think what gets on my nerves anymore isn't that people come and ask for something the KDF has. It's more that they ask for all the positives of it, and none of the negatives. OR the more logical thing of...I dunno, asking for more unique things instead.
Oh yes, the Avenger and the Mogh. I remember when the devs were talking about it. How the KDF were gonna get a ship after so long. Details started to come through a bit, then...suddenly they said, it had to be put on the back burner. Yet only a couple weeks later, from NOWHERE the Avenger says 'Hello!' and then like 3 months later, only THEN do the KDF get the Mogh. So the KDF got put on hold despite being promised a ship, only for the Feds from literally no where, get their own version of pretty much the same ship.
Sure, feel free to. I mean, I don't really care anymore. Between lockbox stuff and the more recent Dyson series, KDF is pretty solid on science ships I feel. And you'll probably be waiting a long time before you see a post on the KDF part of the forums complaining about Attract Fire. if any KDF player cares badly enough about that, they will probably just go buy a Galor or something.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Of course this is ignoring the fact KDF consoles were better, kinda hard not to having a unfair trade when KDF consoles were simply better, heck ships too were pretty much the KDF have a strong lineup of free ships, same isnt true Fed side.
KDF whined about losing a ship type they never had.
Show me a KDF smallcraft in the shows ... go on, at the point you can prove the Klingon Defense Force used small attack craft in the show then you have half a point because its only HALF a point since Romulans and the Federation certainly DID, there is WITHOUT QUESTION a Federation small attack craft, THERE ISNT a Klingon one.
I dont recall any posts about the Defiant, I do remember some about the Aquarius that were very fast shoot down by a developer but since I am at it, the fact is the Aquarius is a the worst ship in the entire game, its BoP without a claok, are you going to tell me with a strait face the Aquarius is fine?
People brought it up because of the Aquarius being a "almost" BoP having none of the strengths and all of the weakness.
Since the Nebula?
Plus can I start going over the KDF lineup and show exactly how many pre-Nebula KDF ships had universal seats?
Well when Feds start lying and act like a victim they will be like the KDF.
Because thats what you do, you lie ... you complain about Universal seats when NO KDF SHIP had then outside the BoPs that are ALL UNIVERSAL, when the Nebula come out we started to see ships with SOME universal seats, the ALL UNIVERSAL still remains in the BoP domain because the ship was designed as suck and balanced as such.
Carriers? the moaning and screaming about then from the KDF always been UTTER RIDICULOUS since THEY NEVER HAD THEN in canon, even Klingon small craft are hard to find even and ******** about cloak ... well ..
I remember a very amusing tread in general were someone said that Klingon Cloak should be superior to Romulan ... yes, that happened so before you go accusing others from engaging on "entitlement" (here is another word that people parrot without understanding the meaning) you better start looking at your own backyard, oh I am not excusing the flanking on the Aquarius or something as a "universal - cloaking console" without restrictions but still, there is a proper tone and way to address things, proper discussion that apparently some people are incapable of doing.
This threads always result in the same thing, someone asks about it and almost immediate the same usual suspects from the KDF backyard show up doing the same OLD TIRED VICTIM ROUTINE!
Heck the KDF must be a really interesting place since their players apparently spend more time on the Federation subforums that on their own.
Also since we are talking about entitlement ... how is your Mogh Battle Cruiser doing? you know ... A EXACT COPY OF THE AVENGER WITH A BUILD-IN CLOAK ABILITY? Oh right, better complain about those Op Scimitars ...
Oh and next time I read about KDF wanting a science ship? I be sure to point out Science Ships are the Federation uniqueness ... or when some KDF entitled player complains about KDF not having all 4 cruiser commands.
I'd like to point out, i play Fed more than KDF, I have level 50's in all 3 factions, My main for like 3 years was Fed, so dont act like that. I call 'em as i see 'em. I see WAY MORE Requests for FED's to have KDF/Rommy stuff than i see KDF/Roms wanting Fed stuff. Sci ships are like the ONLY thing regularly requested is a 5 Tac console ship KDF side, since it is the only faction to not have one. Rommy's want full carriers. Have i missed anything?
Last i checked, FED's are still asking for Aceton assimilators, the only good KDF console they never got.
Fun Fact: The Avenger was a Mogh clone, and supposed to have been released AFTER the mogh, but Fed Battlecruiser Whining got it pushed out first.
not to mention that fed's have been asking for a version of the scimitar since it came out. i even remember someone asking for a lockbox tal shiar adapted scimitar.
Also, I feel the Whole "Console exchange" thing should never have happened.... and guess who casued it to happen? yes, Fed people complaining about how they didnt have access to all the neat consoles that the KDF had.
See the pattern? Fed's want everything nice. People should stop treating "Star Trek online" as "Starfleet online" and let factions be unique in some way.
*facepalm* This community......so f****d up, seriously. lol
OP makes a thread full of metaphores that basically boils down to him being dissapointed by Cryptic's latest boneheaded move to pull the exploration clusters from the game. He's making a statement about his feelings on exploration missing from a Star Trek game.
Fed. player sees the word cloak: *goes green with envy* Yees!! We needz MOAR cloak!! RSE is dead, the treaty is dead, f**k canon, f**k Star Trek! All Starfleet ships need cloak!!! 1111one111
KDF player sees the word cloak: *goes red from anger* Those greedy Fed carebears are at it again! Scram you greedy TRIBBLE, you are not worthy of a cloak! L2P noobs!!!
Rom. player sees the word cloak: *raises eyebrow* Ok, so how do I get rid of Tovan? :P
They really ought to close these boards completely for half a year or so. Just so everyone could get back to reality and get a bit of perspective on thier lives.
The best MMO community my posterior. lol
Because thats what you do, you lie ... you complain about Universal seats when NO KDF SHIP had then outside the BoPs that are ALL UNIVERSAL, when the Nebula come out we started to see ships with SOME universal seats, the ALL UNIVERSAL still remains in the BoP domain because the ship was designed as suck and balanced as such.
Doing well enough in my T5 Hegh'ta Heavy BoP. My KDF toon exclusively flies BoPs. Only complaint is they have low hull strength. Then again that is due to their relative small size.
Carriers? the moaning and screaming about then from the KDF always been UTTER RIDICULOUS since THEY NEVER HAD THEN in canon, even Klingon small craft are hard to find even and ******** about cloak ... well ..
Don't recall Federation having carriers in their fleet either unless I missed it in an episode of TNG or DS9. I didn't bother with Voyager or Enterprise. Perhaps the Star Trek novels mentioned them, dunno... never read any Star Trek novels...
I remember a very amusing tread in general were someone said that Klingon Cloak should be superior to Romulan ... yes, that happened so before you go accusing others from engaging on "entitlement" (here is another word that people parrot without understanding the meaning) you better start looking at your own backyard, oh I am not excusing the flanking on the Aquarius or something as a "universal - cloaking console" without restrictions but still, there is a proper tone and way to address things, proper discussion that apparently some people are incapable of doing.
Yeah, I recall reading that thread. The OP is an idiot. He did not take into consideration the stupid number of writers for the Star Trek series. Star Trek technology suffers from poor, inconsistent writers too numerous to count and said "technology" only serves to set the stage or progress a story.
Heck the KDF must be a really interesting place since their players apparently spend more time on the Federation subforums that on their own.
I play all three factions. My Fed engineering toon is the 1st toon I created and it is my primary game. My tactical KDF toon was created about 6 weeks later. My Fed Aligned science Rom toon was created about 6 weeks ago.
I like the fact that they are all distinct from each other with different strengths and weaknesses. Makes for interesting game play since each faction is rather unique instead of homogeneous.
Also since we are talking about entitlement ... how is your Mogh Battle Cruiser doing? you know ... A EXACT COPY OF THE AVENGER WITH A BUILD-IN CLOAK ABILITY? Oh right, better complain about those Op Scimitars ...
Yeah, it looked interesting until I compared the two ships side by side. For now I have decided not to purchase the KDF Avenger.... I mean the Fed Mogh.... or whatever....
Oh and next time I read about KDF wanting a science ship? I be sure to point out Science Ships are the Federation uniqueness ... or when some KDF entitled player complains about KDF not having all 4 cruiser commands.
Why analyze something when you can just beat it to death? I put my science Boff in a Lt Cmdr. universal console so that I can drop Gravity Well 1. Comes in handy when doing elite Borg STF and there are no Fed or Romulan science ships to do crowd control. Thinking about movng the science Boff to the Cmdr console so that I can do GW1 and GW3 strictly for crowd control. But perhaps I will also give TR1 and GW3 a spin as well.
Why is it someone sees fighters they automatically assume there must also be carriers, it's rubbish since every starship that has a hanger is a carrier, especially larger ships like the Galaxy, Negh'Var and D'deridex which have enormous hangers and convertible cargo spaces and when larger numbers are required they would use tenders or freighters going to staging points. Fighters are an archaic waste of resources in an era where highly accurate missiles and torpedoes can be cheaply produced that aren't limited by the needs and failings of an organic pilot.
This game does not properly implement carriers anyway, a proper carrier shouldn't be able to operate solo but only as part of carrier group, while a carrier's fighter compliment could provide it some support it should be individually vulnerable without the defense provided by its assigned support group, a forced multiplayer system that few would likely be interested in.
On the issue of cloaks the Federation doesn't do them, they signed treaties against developing them and don't use them with one exception. What the Federation does do is detection, technologies that render cloaks useless or worse, make them a liability.
In any case this isn't about wanting what the other guy has, it just wanting it for the sake of completeness and a sense of novelty. Members of other factions may get riled up thinking that the Feds are too greedy and this game is too Fed centric but it should be remembered that at the end of it all Star Trek was primarily about adventures aboard Federation starships, it wasn't about the Klingons or the Romulans or anyone else, those were always side stories about side characters, getting upset won't change that, bitter pill though that truth may be.
It's a pointless argument anyway, Cryptic will do or not do whatever it sees fit and CBS allows, no matter how nonsensical it may seem.:(
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Fighters are an archaic waste of resources in an era where highly accurate missiles and torpedoes can be cheaply produced that aren't limited by the needs and failings of an organic pilot.
Never belittle the importance of an organic being. I recall one of the few episodes of Voyager that I have seen which I think was called "Dreadnought" about a Cardassian weapon with an intelligent AI that size of a ship designed to destroy a Marque base. The weapon failed to detonate and the Marque re-purposed it to destroy a Cardassian base, but it got pulled into the Delta Quadrant.
Thinking that automated weapons are a panacea solution is what got the US Air Force into trouble during the Vietnam War. They wanted a fighter interceptor capable of just firing missile because the military thought that missile were the future of air combat and guns no longer served any purpose. McDonnell Douglas came up with the F-4 Phantom II who's only armaments were missiles. The ground attack version carried bombs in addition to missiles. The military thought the days of dog fighting were over in the age of jet fighters and missiles.
Well... that turned out to be false especially when missiles were not very reliable. Enemy MIGs would always attempt to engage F-4s in dog fights. With no cannons F-4 pilots would always need to attempt to disengage and put enough distance between them and the MIGs to use their unreliable missiles. I think at that point in time the Phantom's kill ratio was like 3:1. For every 3 MIGs shot down, 1 Phantom was lost; not very good to say the least. It was not until the release of the F-4E model that the Phantom had an internal cannon and the kill ratio when up to around 8:1 or 10:1.
What's the point to all this?
Hindsight is always 20/20 whether it was in the past, current or take place in the future. Technological hardware is great as long as it works and is implemented properly. However, it is generally the person that is controlling the hardware (F-4 pilot in this case) that makes the hardware function exceptionally.
In any case this isn't about wanting what the other guy has, it just wanting it for the sake of completeness and a sense of novelty. Members of other factions may get riled up thinking that the Feds are too greedy and this game is too Fed centric but it should be remembered that at the end of it all Star Trek was primarily about adventures aboard Federation starships, it wasn't about the Klingons or the Romulans or anyone else, those were always side stories about side characters, getting upset won't change that, bitter pill though that truth may be.
It's a pointless argument anyway, Cryptic will do or not do whatever it sees fit and CBS allows, no matter how nonsensical it may seem.:(
You are right in that Cryptic will do whatever they want.
You are also right in that the shows and movies were about people on Federation ships pretty much. 5 shows and a dozen movies would agree. That said, I doubt anyone here is in denial about it.
BUT...
Just because the shows and movies were Fed-centric, doesn't automatically mean that this game MUST be totally Fed-centric and the Feds should get everything purely because they are Feds. This game is a multiple faction game. It'd be one thing if this game started out ONLY with Starfleet, with there were NO options at all to play a Klingon or Romulan (even as an alien). Then in that case it really would be a game entirely about the Federation, and the devs could focus all their efforts as such.
The game isn't that way. It has multiple factions (and yes yes, Romulans aren't separate, etc etc I know), period. Factions that AREN'T the Federation. Factions that have players who enjoy playing those factions and the unique features (to whatever degree that might still exist), and/or enjoy those factions for what they are from the shows and movies, there are many reasons why someone wouldn't want to play a Fed.
I believe Michael Eddington put it best:
"I know you. I was like you once, but then I opened my eyes. Open your eyes, Captain. Why is the Federation so obsessed with the Maquis? We've never harmed you. And yet we're constantly arrested and charged with terrorism. Starships chase us through the Badlands and our supporters are harassed and ridiculed. Why? Because we've left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation. Hell, you even want the Cardassians to join. You're only sending them replicators because one day they can take their "rightful place" on the Federation Council. You know, in some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious. You assimilate people and they don't even know it."
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I would agree, but nobody's suggesting that anything be taken away from the KDF. That's what many people seem to have trouble understanding: giving cloaks to the Federation does not constitute taking them away from the Klingons. I assume it's just special snowflake syndrome talking -- "I want to be the only person with a cloak, so don't give it to anyone else"...
I assume it's just special snowflake syndrome talking -- "I want to be the only person with a cloak, so don't give it to anyone else"...
I would argue that's a faulty assumption. Realistically, it's probably because Cryptic wants gameplay between factions to be different. If we started getting everything for every faction, their gameplay wouldn't be different. Wouldn't be diverse.
I would argue that's a faulty assumption. Realistically, it's probably because Cryptic wants gameplay between factions to be different. If we started getting everything for every faction, their gameplay wouldn't be different. Wouldn't be diverse.
and no one would play other factions. if the fed's had a scimitar style ship, ability to get a fed equivilant of SRO as a player trait, and put a cloaking device on it.... no one would play roms.
as a player with a fed and kdf chars i can say have more fun time in kdf side and want all kdf stuf stay in kdf and fed stuff in fed maybe the only one in this game who whant that :P
but i read to many times many forum from fed asking (whinne or what ever can be called) for :
consoles - Cloak - Battlecloack - BOP - cruciers with DHC - carriers - and playables orion in iron bikinis xD
time has gone on and they get many of this thing only a few remains kdf
the only reason any alpha quadrant race ever explored anywhere was to find something to fight with.
"we are the federation, lower your shields and surrender your weapons. your technological and biological distinctiveness will be added to our own, if its sexy. your culture will adapt to service us, resistance is futile"
Yep federation an organization of peace and exploration in this game has its 5 tactical console ships that can basically turn on a dime where as KDF has no ships comparable to these. Yet the KDF is basically an Empire that thrives on expanding its borders and conquering its enemies.
Not to mention all the gimmick ships we get thrown at us that are usually nerfed or never really what they are being advertised for lol. They have acknowledged in the past that the traffic they get from players is heavily STO because of the Brand (Star Trek) most likely the vast majority of players if they never had the label of this they wouldn't have ever given cryptic the time of day they just got lucky but I think their luck is about burnt out even with the brand its so sad.
Exploration used to be done mainly for the dilithium as I recall. So if Exploration ever comes back... dilithium needs to be a factor. I'd love for some sort of Exploration system to come out with races based on the shows. I think that would make a difference. A lot of writing, situations and variables would have to be added to make the exploration system a really unique one. I remember it used to be far too boring.
If you have to protect diplomats, rescue them, blast your way through some terrorist compounds to rescue your mission.... that sort of thing [think they had one type of this already but still.... a more varied 'situation' bombs with timers etc].... as well as a sort of conference room, relaxed ball room etc situations or moving starship.... really needs to be revamped to be extremely diverse.
Of course the text/writing would all be 'different' for the Klingons and Romulans with the Romulans... being more 'rebuild our empire by adding an incentive behind our allies backs because we eventually want to become independant' type deal and the Klingons could have Elimination Of Enemy (Federation in diplomatic missions) or Conquer a planet type system in place of exploration.
I just want to be able to activate my MES while under red alert. :P
Seriously, who needs a cloak console when you have MES.
Exactly. I can understand why they don't want FEDs to cloak, and that is because FEDs classically don't use cloaking tech, however MES should be an alternative and a FED-specific ability, and be able to be used in red alert, because the FEDs deserve a stealth treat like that.
Ok this thing that the Federation were just explorers needs to stop. Anyone saying that the Federation fleet was only a exploration fleet is just plain wrong.
Star Fleet is peace keeping fleet that also explores unknown space. A peace keeping fleet doesn't not mean its not a combat fleet. It means that its not used of offense taking of territory has nothing to do with its combat readiness. In most cases a peace keeping force is more advanced and able to bring more fire power to bare when needing to maintain peace. peace through strength as it were.
The exploration fleet is a part of not all of Starfleet. In STO players are part of the combat ready defense force of Starfleet they are not part of the exploration fleet of Starfleet. The part of the world of Startrek that the players are experiencing is the political and military side of Startrek. It doesn't mean the exploration side isn't there in the back ground. The primary role of the Federation player is to be on the front lines defending the Federation and this means combat oriented ships and equipment for that job.
Cloak, combat built ships such as the Defient / Avenger shows a evolving Starfleet that after decades of wars is becoming even more specialized in its ship design no longer building ships that that be customized for exploration or war like the Galaxy class was. They are being built with one role in mind.
People who argue about cloaks being a offensive system are also wrong. Cloaking even on the offense is a defensive system. Camouflage is for defense even when attacking.
As far as carriers... there are nothing even lore wise supporting KDF carriers. Not even KDF attack shuttles. The only time we EVER see fighters/attack shuttles is when they were being used by the Federation. Given that Starfleet was based off the US military and the core of its fleets are super carriers it makes more sense that the Federation would be the ones using them. Carriers are not KDF.. the KDF may have been the first to get one in the game but that does not make them a faction item.
Cloaks are not KDF as well.. multiple races in Star Trek use cloaks and again just do to KDF faction getting something 1st in game does not mean they have proprietary rights to it.
I understand the argument of saying if everyone has everything then no one will play the KDF but this is out right wrong. People will play the KDF because they like the KDF not do to cloaks or carriers. People will play a faction do to it appealing to them not for some gimmick to buy/entice them.
Ok this thing that the Federation were just explorers needs to stop. Anyone saying that the Federation fleet was only a exploration fleet is just plain wrong.
.
You so completely have missed the point of the Federation, of Starfleet, and Star Trek it is laughable.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
or TNG with the USS Pegasus which was Will Riker's first post, or the ToS when Kirk STOLE a cloaking device and had it installed on the Enterprise to escape.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Can someone please kill this zombie thread with fire? Bluegeek? Askray?
I would love to nuke the whole Fed Cloak debate from orbit every time it shows up. It's always tiresome, and we often end up having to moderate them.
But until the Devs come out with a clear statement that says,
"No more cloaks for Federation; Never Battle Cloak for Feds"
It probably won't make the list of banned topics and we'll just have to suffer through them as they show up.
I still believe that cloak for Fed will be the exception and not the rule, and I believe that's how the Devs feel about it. I'm pretty sure that they will remain firm to the design principles they've demonstrated with the Intel ships and never give Feds a Battle Cloak.
But I also know that they aren't likely to make a statement like the one above and start a whole new round of rage fest.
Let's strike a healthy balance between "Never Say Never" and "Please Take No For An Answer".
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
... you get a Battle Cloak Console that you only need to have in your Bank and all your Feds ships can Cloak under Red Alert from then and the best is Feds can be cloaked and have shileds full at 100% at the same time. ...
18 Cpt on the way to 60: 14 of them are already 50 or over 50, one is 60 and 3 almost 43
Subscribed For: 4 years 5 months 20 days at 26.10.2014
Comments
Oh boy, this is a doozy of a post.
KDF consoles are better. Won't deny it. Who's fault is it? Cryptic's. They gave the better consoles to the KDF, and what did Feds do? Whine and moan until most of em were nerfed or given eventually. Instead of...y'know, maybe asking for less crummy consoles Fed side and/or buffing them more. In the end though, they still CHOSE to do the console trades irregardless.
Fine, there is no small attack craft in any of the shows that was ever seen. BUT that doesn't mean that attack craft =/= carrier. Just because a real life nation has fighter jets doesn't mean it automatically has an aircraft carrier.
However, the devs DID choose to give the KDF carriers in the game. And...Feds whined until they got the Atrox.
The Aquarius does suck, I don't think anyone is gonna argue that. It deserves some kind of fix. And there have been posts and threads made by people asking for the Defiant to be made into a raider, or otherwise asking for a similar thing.
Yes, full uni set-up is still only seen on the BoPs, that is true. But giving universal set ups to various ships, Fed or not ever since has made a long trend of ships that have unis (sometimes powerful Lt. Cmdr or Cmdr unis I might add) and not having to really pay any cost for them.
I think what gets on my nerves anymore isn't that people come and ask for something the KDF has. It's more that they ask for all the positives of it, and none of the negatives. OR the more logical thing of...I dunno, asking for more unique things instead.
Oh yes, the Avenger and the Mogh. I remember when the devs were talking about it. How the KDF were gonna get a ship after so long. Details started to come through a bit, then...suddenly they said, it had to be put on the back burner. Yet only a couple weeks later, from NOWHERE the Avenger says 'Hello!' and then like 3 months later, only THEN do the KDF get the Mogh. So the KDF got put on hold despite being promised a ship, only for the Feds from literally no where, get their own version of pretty much the same ship.
Sure, feel free to. I mean, I don't really care anymore. Between lockbox stuff and the more recent Dyson series, KDF is pretty solid on science ships I feel. And you'll probably be waiting a long time before you see a post on the KDF part of the forums complaining about Attract Fire. if any KDF player cares badly enough about that, they will probably just go buy a Galor or something.
I'd like to point out, i play Fed more than KDF, I have level 50's in all 3 factions, My main for like 3 years was Fed, so dont act like that. I call 'em as i see 'em. I see WAY MORE Requests for FED's to have KDF/Rommy stuff than i see KDF/Roms wanting Fed stuff. Sci ships are like the ONLY thing regularly requested is a 5 Tac console ship KDF side, since it is the only faction to not have one. Rommy's want full carriers. Have i missed anything?
Last i checked, FED's are still asking for Aceton assimilators, the only good KDF console they never got.
Fun Fact: The Avenger was a Mogh clone, and supposed to have been released AFTER the mogh, but Fed Battlecruiser Whining got it pushed out first.
Edit: also, at least one person requsted the Defiant have raider flanking capabilities, and if there was one, you know there'd be more: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14572991&postcount=4
here's a whole thread devoted to updating the Defiant after the flanking bonus was announced http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1082931
A federation RAIDER with battlecloak thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1107701
oh, and a thread wanting defiant with battle cloak and fed ships with all universals: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1141931
not to mention that fed's have been asking for a version of the scimitar since it came out. i even remember someone asking for a lockbox tal shiar adapted scimitar.
Also, I feel the Whole "Console exchange" thing should never have happened.... and guess who casued it to happen? yes, Fed people complaining about how they didnt have access to all the neat consoles that the KDF had.
See the pattern? Fed's want everything nice. People should stop treating "Star Trek online" as "Starfleet online" and let factions be unique in some way.
OP makes a thread full of metaphores that basically boils down to him being dissapointed by Cryptic's latest boneheaded move to pull the exploration clusters from the game. He's making a statement about his feelings on exploration missing from a Star Trek game.
Fed. player sees the word cloak: *goes green with envy* Yees!! We needz MOAR cloak!! RSE is dead, the treaty is dead, f**k canon, f**k Star Trek! All Starfleet ships need cloak!!! 1111one111
KDF player sees the word cloak: *goes red from anger* Those greedy Fed carebears are at it again! Scram you greedy TRIBBLE, you are not worthy of a cloak! L2P noobs!!!
Rom. player sees the word cloak: *raises eyebrow* Ok, so how do I get rid of Tovan?
They really ought to close these boards completely for half a year or so. Just so everyone could get back to reality and get a bit of perspective on thier lives.
The best MMO community my posterior. lol
Doing well enough in my T5 Hegh'ta Heavy BoP. My KDF toon exclusively flies BoPs. Only complaint is they have low hull strength. Then again that is due to their relative small size.
Don't recall Federation having carriers in their fleet either unless I missed it in an episode of TNG or DS9. I didn't bother with Voyager or Enterprise. Perhaps the Star Trek novels mentioned them, dunno... never read any Star Trek novels...
Yeah, I recall reading that thread. The OP is an idiot. He did not take into consideration the stupid number of writers for the Star Trek series. Star Trek technology suffers from poor, inconsistent writers too numerous to count and said "technology" only serves to set the stage or progress a story.
I play all three factions. My Fed engineering toon is the 1st toon I created and it is my primary game. My tactical KDF toon was created about 6 weeks later. My Fed Aligned science Rom toon was created about 6 weeks ago.
I like the fact that they are all distinct from each other with different strengths and weaknesses. Makes for interesting game play since each faction is rather unique instead of homogeneous.
Yeah, it looked interesting until I compared the two ships side by side. For now I have decided not to purchase the KDF Avenger.... I mean the Fed Mogh.... or whatever....
Why analyze something when you can just beat it to death? I put my science Boff in a Lt Cmdr. universal console so that I can drop Gravity Well 1. Comes in handy when doing elite Borg STF and there are no Fed or Romulan science ships to do crowd control. Thinking about movng the science Boff to the Cmdr console so that I can do GW1 and GW3 strictly for crowd control. But perhaps I will also give TR1 and GW3 a spin as well.
This game does not properly implement carriers anyway, a proper carrier shouldn't be able to operate solo but only as part of carrier group, while a carrier's fighter compliment could provide it some support it should be individually vulnerable without the defense provided by its assigned support group, a forced multiplayer system that few would likely be interested in.
On the issue of cloaks the Federation doesn't do them, they signed treaties against developing them and don't use them with one exception. What the Federation does do is detection, technologies that render cloaks useless or worse, make them a liability.
In any case this isn't about wanting what the other guy has, it just wanting it for the sake of completeness and a sense of novelty. Members of other factions may get riled up thinking that the Feds are too greedy and this game is too Fed centric but it should be remembered that at the end of it all Star Trek was primarily about adventures aboard Federation starships, it wasn't about the Klingons or the Romulans or anyone else, those were always side stories about side characters, getting upset won't change that, bitter pill though that truth may be.
It's a pointless argument anyway, Cryptic will do or not do whatever it sees fit and CBS allows, no matter how nonsensical it may seem.:(
Never belittle the importance of an organic being. I recall one of the few episodes of Voyager that I have seen which I think was called "Dreadnought" about a Cardassian weapon with an intelligent AI that size of a ship designed to destroy a Marque base. The weapon failed to detonate and the Marque re-purposed it to destroy a Cardassian base, but it got pulled into the Delta Quadrant.
Thinking that automated weapons are a panacea solution is what got the US Air Force into trouble during the Vietnam War. They wanted a fighter interceptor capable of just firing missile because the military thought that missile were the future of air combat and guns no longer served any purpose. McDonnell Douglas came up with the F-4 Phantom II who's only armaments were missiles. The ground attack version carried bombs in addition to missiles. The military thought the days of dog fighting were over in the age of jet fighters and missiles.
Well... that turned out to be false especially when missiles were not very reliable. Enemy MIGs would always attempt to engage F-4s in dog fights. With no cannons F-4 pilots would always need to attempt to disengage and put enough distance between them and the MIGs to use their unreliable missiles. I think at that point in time the Phantom's kill ratio was like 3:1. For every 3 MIGs shot down, 1 Phantom was lost; not very good to say the least. It was not until the release of the F-4E model that the Phantom had an internal cannon and the kill ratio when up to around 8:1 or 10:1.
What's the point to all this?
Hindsight is always 20/20 whether it was in the past, current or take place in the future. Technological hardware is great as long as it works and is implemented properly. However, it is generally the person that is controlling the hardware (F-4 pilot in this case) that makes the hardware function exceptionally.
You are right in that Cryptic will do whatever they want.
You are also right in that the shows and movies were about people on Federation ships pretty much. 5 shows and a dozen movies would agree. That said, I doubt anyone here is in denial about it.
BUT...
Just because the shows and movies were Fed-centric, doesn't automatically mean that this game MUST be totally Fed-centric and the Feds should get everything purely because they are Feds. This game is a multiple faction game. It'd be one thing if this game started out ONLY with Starfleet, with there were NO options at all to play a Klingon or Romulan (even as an alien). Then in that case it really would be a game entirely about the Federation, and the devs could focus all their efforts as such.
The game isn't that way. It has multiple factions (and yes yes, Romulans aren't separate, etc etc I know), period. Factions that AREN'T the Federation. Factions that have players who enjoy playing those factions and the unique features (to whatever degree that might still exist), and/or enjoy those factions for what they are from the shows and movies, there are many reasons why someone wouldn't want to play a Fed.
I believe Michael Eddington put it best:
"I know you. I was like you once, but then I opened my eyes. Open your eyes, Captain. Why is the Federation so obsessed with the Maquis? We've never harmed you. And yet we're constantly arrested and charged with terrorism. Starships chase us through the Badlands and our supporters are harassed and ridiculed. Why? Because we've left the Federation, and that's the one thing you can't accept. Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation. Hell, you even want the Cardassians to join. You're only sending them replicators because one day they can take their "rightful place" on the Federation Council. You know, in some ways you're even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious. You assimilate people and they don't even know it."
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and no one would play other factions. if the fed's had a scimitar style ship, ability to get a fed equivilant of SRO as a player trait, and put a cloaking device on it.... no one would play roms.
as a player with a fed and kdf chars i can say have more fun time in kdf side and want all kdf stuf stay in kdf and fed stuff in fed maybe the only one in this game who whant that :P
but i read to many times many forum from fed asking (whinne or what ever can be called) for :
consoles - Cloak - Battlecloack - BOP - cruciers with DHC - carriers - and playables orion in iron bikinis xD
time has gone on and they get many of this thing only a few remains kdf
Yep federation an organization of peace and exploration in this game has its 5 tactical console ships that can basically turn on a dime where as KDF has no ships comparable to these. Yet the KDF is basically an Empire that thrives on expanding its borders and conquering its enemies.
Not to mention all the gimmick ships we get thrown at us that are usually nerfed or never really what they are being advertised for lol. They have acknowledged in the past that the traffic they get from players is heavily STO because of the Brand (Star Trek) most likely the vast majority of players if they never had the label of this they wouldn't have ever given cryptic the time of day they just got lucky but I think their luck is about burnt out even with the brand its so sad.
If you have to protect diplomats, rescue them, blast your way through some terrorist compounds to rescue your mission.... that sort of thing [think they had one type of this already but still.... a more varied 'situation' bombs with timers etc].... as well as a sort of conference room, relaxed ball room etc situations or moving starship.... really needs to be revamped to be extremely diverse.
Of course the text/writing would all be 'different' for the Klingons and Romulans with the Romulans... being more 'rebuild our empire by adding an incentive behind our allies backs because we eventually want to become independant' type deal and the Klingons could have Elimination Of Enemy (Federation in diplomatic missions) or Conquer a planet type system in place of exploration.
Just a few thoughts.
Exactly. I can understand why they don't want FEDs to cloak, and that is because FEDs classically don't use cloaking tech, however MES should be an alternative and a FED-specific ability, and be able to be used in red alert, because the FEDs deserve a stealth treat like that.
Star Fleet is peace keeping fleet that also explores unknown space. A peace keeping fleet doesn't not mean its not a combat fleet. It means that its not used of offense taking of territory has nothing to do with its combat readiness. In most cases a peace keeping force is more advanced and able to bring more fire power to bare when needing to maintain peace. peace through strength as it were.
The exploration fleet is a part of not all of Starfleet. In STO players are part of the combat ready defense force of Starfleet they are not part of the exploration fleet of Starfleet. The part of the world of Startrek that the players are experiencing is the political and military side of Startrek. It doesn't mean the exploration side isn't there in the back ground. The primary role of the Federation player is to be on the front lines defending the Federation and this means combat oriented ships and equipment for that job.
Cloak, combat built ships such as the Defient / Avenger shows a evolving Starfleet that after decades of wars is becoming even more specialized in its ship design no longer building ships that that be customized for exploration or war like the Galaxy class was. They are being built with one role in mind.
People who argue about cloaks being a offensive system are also wrong. Cloaking even on the offense is a defensive system. Camouflage is for defense even when attacking.
As far as carriers... there are nothing even lore wise supporting KDF carriers. Not even KDF attack shuttles. The only time we EVER see fighters/attack shuttles is when they were being used by the Federation. Given that Starfleet was based off the US military and the core of its fleets are super carriers it makes more sense that the Federation would be the ones using them. Carriers are not KDF.. the KDF may have been the first to get one in the game but that does not make them a faction item.
Cloaks are not KDF as well.. multiple races in Star Trek use cloaks and again just do to KDF faction getting something 1st in game does not mean they have proprietary rights to it.
I understand the argument of saying if everyone has everything then no one will play the KDF but this is out right wrong. People will play the KDF because they like the KDF not do to cloaks or carriers. People will play a faction do to it appealing to them not for some gimmick to buy/entice them.
As far as im concerned feds should not have a cloak because they dont in TV or in the films
You so completely have missed the point of the Federation, of Starfleet, and Star Trek it is laughable.
"These are the voyages..." - Complete the line.
Uhm...did you watch DS9?
or TNG with the USS Pegasus which was Will Riker's first post, or the ToS when Kirk STOLE a cloaking device and had it installed on the Enterprise to escape.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Are you really that dense?
TOS and TNG were about ONE aspect of Star Trek and to a lesser extent TNG near the end there was less exploring...
DS9 was not about exploring at all.. its was about the geo politics of a sector of space.
There is no "these are the voyages" in DS9... hell even Voyager started with the hunting of a terrorist not trying to explore...
you have a really simplistic view of the Star Trek universe.
Nope, you still completely miss the point.
--Red Annorax
You do not have a point... :rolleyes:
"These are the voyages" is about one ship.. not all of the Federation or Star Fleet...
The game is not about TOS or TNG format of the shows..
It has more in common with DS9 and is not about exploring. The fact you can not comprehend that is kind of sad.
No, you still don't get it. Bye.
I would love to nuke the whole Fed Cloak debate from orbit every time it shows up. It's always tiresome, and we often end up having to moderate them.
But until the Devs come out with a clear statement that says,
"No more cloaks for Federation; Never Battle Cloak for Feds"
It probably won't make the list of banned topics and we'll just have to suffer through them as they show up.
I still believe that cloak for Fed will be the exception and not the rule, and I believe that's how the Devs feel about it. I'm pretty sure that they will remain firm to the design principles they've demonstrated with the Intel ships and never give Feds a Battle Cloak.
But I also know that they aren't likely to make a statement like the one above and start a whole new round of rage fest.
Let's strike a healthy balance between "Never Say Never" and "Please Take No For An Answer".
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
... you get a Battle Cloak Console that you only need to have in your Bank and all your Feds ships can Cloak under Red Alert from then and the best is Feds can be cloaked and have shileds full at 100% at the same time. ...
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