... you get a Battle Cloak Console that you only need to have in your Bank and all your Feds ships can Cloak under Red Alert from then and the best is Feds can be cloaked and have shileds full at 100% at the same time. ...
why not a big red button that just kills everything in sight.............
Good post. It covers some good points. Maybe it is just me but it seems it's always been...
KDF for PVP
Fed for PVE
Now both factions can switch to Romulan and be on even ground using battle cloaks. Adding a cloak to some Fed ships will make no difference. They just switch toons. Besides the cloak they get doesn't work very well during a battle. You have to wait till red alert goes away before you can cloak again. Currently KDF or Romulan can cloak and heal up then try another alpha. Feds are stuck till they run or die.
As far as exploration.. that is what feds did. It would be nice if they set it up so the new game factions were the ones we found in the exploration areas before they were released. Or at least separate it so you have a group of specific missions and species for each area. The old system was random species you normally see and the same missions no matter what side of the galaxy you are in. It would be a huge undertaking but would also add a more authentic feel to the game.
Yeah, some Fed players feel the they are entitled to get everything in the game simply because they exist. Getting tired of these crybabies.
Reminded me of another thread today about someone wanting a Red Matter Capacitor without having to spend the $90 - $200 for a remaining copy of the Collector's Edition. They wanted to make it a C-Store or craftable item; i.e. a "grindable" item. That's a direct slap in the face to those people who were willing to open their wallets to buy the Collector's Edition in the first place.
and the people who bought the gamestop pre-order to get the original enterprise didn't get slapped in the face YEARS ago?
Yeah, I recall reading that thread. The OP is an idiot. He did not take into consideration the stupid number of writers for the Star Trek series. Star Trek technology suffers from poor, inconsistent writers too numerous to count and said "technology" only serves to set the stage or progress a story.
you mean like the moron who wrote Star Trek 3? you know, when the Klingons got a ship called a "Bird of Prey" which was, prior to that stupid move was the name of the ROMULAN ships?
Why is it someone sees fighters they automatically assume there must also be carriers, it's rubbish since every starship that has a hanger is a carrier, especially larger ships like the Galaxy, Negh'Var and D'deridex which have enormous hangers and convertible cargo spaces and when larger numbers are required they would use tenders or freighters going to staging points. Fighters are an archaic waste of resources in an era where highly accurate missiles and torpedoes can be cheaply produced that aren't limited by the needs and failings of an organic pilot. This game does not properly implement carriers anyway, a proper carrier shouldn't be able to operate solo but only as part of carrier group, while a carrier's fighter compliment could provide it some support it should be individually vulnerable without the defense provided by its assigned support group, a forced multiplayer system that few would likely be interested in.
On the issue of cloaks the Federation doesn't do them, they signed treaties against developing them and don't use them with one exception. What the Federation does do is detection, technologies that render cloaks useless or worse, make them a liability.
In any case this isn't about wanting what the other guy has, it just wanting it for the sake of completeness and a sense of novelty. Members of other factions may get riled up thinking that the Feds are too greedy and this game is too Fed centric but it should be remembered that at the end of it all Star Trek was primarily about adventures aboard Federation starships, it wasn't about the Klingons or the Romulans or anyone else, those were always side stories about side characters, getting upset won't change that, bitter pill though that truth may be.
It's a pointless argument anyway, Cryptic will do or not do whatever it sees fit and CBS allows, no matter how nonsensical it may seem.:(
it's pretty clear you know nothing about fighters or aircraft carriers.
back in the 70s and 80s there was a rule: a carrier did not get underway without a minimum of 8 escorts. there was a reason for that, the Soviet union had the ability to saturate the carrier air wing. the escorts were not there to shoot down missiles, they were there to get in the way and take the missile hit. Today they will get underway with 2 or three. in reality, a CVN can go anywhere and take on any threat solo. very few air forces can overwhelm a carrier air wing. NO navy can attack a carrier and sink it with surface ships if the carrier chooses to deny that force. the ONLY weapons that can take out a carrier are a very lucky submarine getting past the ASW aircraft, or a very large number of missiles fired from ranges beyond the range of the carrier's fighters. the only other weapon that can do it is a ballistic missile.. and they don't work very well against something moving at 40 knots and maneuvering... unless it has a nuclear warhead.
as far as your comment about fighters... you think the missiles of today are not effective? technology helps but the PILOTS are what defeats a SAM system
IMHO, the only federation ships that should be able to cloak are the dreadnoughts. Oly Defiant had the cloak, and it was destroyed. the only federation ship to mount cannons the Defiant.
BOPs should not have the option to mount beams.
KDF should have standard cloaks they should have variants with 5 tac slots.
no fed ship should have 5 tac slots.
feds should have the best shield mods to counter the loss of the tac slot.
Roms should be the only ones with battlecloaks above the BOP class
Scimitar turn rate should be the same as Odyssey.
Roms should have to give up SRO to get 5 tac slots.
all factions should have a carrier with frigate pets.
it's pretty clear you know nothing about fighters or aircraft carriers.
back in the 70s and 80s there was a rule: a carrier did not get underway without a minimum of 8 escorts. there was a reason for that, the Soviet union had the ability to saturate the carrier air wing. the escorts were not there to shoot down missiles, they were there to get in the way and take the missile hit. Today they will get underway with 2 or three. in reality, a CVN can go anywhere and take on any threat solo. very few air forces can overwhelm a carrier air wing. NO navy can attack a carrier and sink it with surface ships if the carrier chooses to deny that force. the ONLY weapons that can take out a carrier are a very lucky submarine getting past the ASW aircraft, or a very large number of missiles fired from ranges beyond the range of the carrier's fighters. the only other weapon that can do it is a ballistic missile.. and they don't work very well against something moving at 40 knots and maneuvering... unless it has a nuclear warhead.
as far as your comment about fighters... you think the missiles of today are not effective? technology helps but the PILOTS are what defeats a SAM system
I think you're taking the point of the guy you were replying to wrong. I do believe it's a referral to how effective, how accurate weapons are... for Star Trek. Weapons are being fired at small objects over vast distances in space. Even in the Dominion War scenes when fighters have been shown, they didn't do anything, except maybe used as a distraction to hopefully draw away undisciplined ship captains away from a formation. The only things fighters did was to present themselves as pesky little targets to shoot at. And to die in large numbers.
I cannot remember any scene where fighters even downed any ship by themselves. I cannot even remember any scene where any fighters destroyed even a single Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, and those things were being destroyed left and right, blowing up in groups of 2's and 3's.
The only thing I can think of fighters even making an appearance in DS9 only, is for giving that "World War 2" ship combat flavor with fighters buzzing around. Because no other Star Trek show or movie has gone that direction. Even JJ-Trek hasn't.
The funny thing with Starfleet deploying disposable fighters in the Dominion War, despite their ineffectiveness, is that the organization places a high premium on lives. And yet, here they were, throwing cheap Peregrines away that did nothing but die quickly and give the Dominion alliance something else to shoot at. And even that didn't work that well.
I think you're taking the point of the guy you were replying to wrong. I do believe it's a referral to how effective, how accurate weapons are... for Star Trek. Weapons are being fired at small objects over vast distances in space. Even in the Dominion War scenes when fighters have been shown, they didn't do anything, except maybe used as a distraction to hopefully draw away undisciplined ship captains away from a formation. The only things fighters did was to present themselves as pesky little targets to shoot at. And to die in large numbers.
I cannot remember any scene where fighters even downed any ship by themselves. I cannot even remember any scene where any fighters destroyed even a single Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, and those things were being destroyed left and right, blowing up in groups of 2's and 3's.
The only thing I can think of fighters even making an appearance in DS9 only, is for giving that "World War 2" ship combat flavor with fighters buzzing around. Because no other Star Trek show or movie has gone that direction. Even JJ-Trek hasn't.
The funny thing with Starfleet deploying disposable fighters in the Dominion War, despite their ineffectiveness, is that the organization places a high premium on lives. And yet, here they were, throwing cheap Peregrines away that did nothing but die quickly and give the Dominion alliance something else to shoot at. And even that didn't work that well.
maybe because the writers don't have a clue how it works either?
it's called force multipliers.
1 carrier launches 12 fighters. 12 fighters shoot 12 torpedos. target now has gone from one target to 25 targets, 12 of which are very high priority (the torpedos) 12 of high priority (the fighters, who are prparing to fire again)
if the devs wanted to do it correctly, each fighter would carry 2-4 heavy weapons (torpedos) that can be launched simultaneously. sure they retain a popgun phaser disruptor whatever, but to fire the heavy stuff they have to recover and rearm. and the need to do it from a distance.
the old starfleet command games did it correctly, and their AI is way better than Cryptics.
it's pretty clear you know nothing about fighters or aircraft carriers.
back in the 70s and 80s there was a rule: a carrier did not get underway without a minimum of 8 escorts. there was a reason for that, the Soviet union had the ability to saturate the carrier air wing. the escorts were not there to shoot down missiles, they were there to get in the way and take the missile hit. Today they will get underway with 2 or three. in reality, a CVN can go anywhere and take on any threat solo. very few air forces can overwhelm a carrier air wing. NO navy can attack a carrier and sink it with surface ships if the carrier chooses to deny that force. the ONLY weapons that can take out a carrier are a very lucky submarine getting past the ASW aircraft, or a very large number of missiles fired from ranges beyond the range of the carrier's fighters. the only other weapon that can do it is a ballistic missile.. and they don't work very well against something moving at 40 knots and maneuvering... unless it has a nuclear warhead.
as far as your comment about fighters... you think the missiles of today are not effective? technology helps but the PILOTS are what defeats a SAM system
And you make it fairly obvious how little you actually know. Carriers never operating solo is a rule that started long before the Cold War and has existed long since because a carrier's defensive weaponry is appallingly weak, it's flight group is victim to a very narrow window of favorable environment in which to operate and expends fuel and ordinance that a carrier can not provide in infinite supply. The carrier's support group provides an armed shield above and below the surface as well as supporting the carrier's flight operations directly. The argument that they are there to act as interference may have been true during the second world war with old fashioned torpedoes but for more contemporary times the notion is idiotic when missiles can be fired at targets selectively.
I never said that missiles were not effective, my point is that smart weapons 4/500 years from now are going to be a whole lot smarter. The Photon Torpedoes we fire in this game don't do justice to what these weapons are supposed to be capable of and those capabilities should be making something like a small piloted fighter redundant.
In any case this argument is way off topic for the original argument regarding cloaks and in spite of what you might suspect from some of my remarks, Im a firm believer that the different factions in this game should have unique technologies and abilities, so long as their counterparts have some ability that balances or negates those technological benefits. The main complaint here could be about Cryptics failure to provide that.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Even as a KDF, When ever I read a Fed thread that say they want cloak or carrier, I think it means just that: they want cloak and carrier.
Apparently the Dev believe that they actually want to be KDF, and decide it's better to remove exploration missions and cluster. It's on Tribble now, so you know it's happening.
And even as a KDF, I think that's horrible. No enemy should suffer a fate like that.
So apparently the answer to "Do anyone remember when we used the be explorers?", the answer is: "Since when?" Fed is now basically a blue colored KDF.
I don't really care i'm fed and i thought in star trek that starfleet ships can't have clocking devices i heard that in ST: TNG or ST: VOY.... because it in the federation laws.
Comments
why not a big red button that just kills everything in sight.............
system Lord Baal is dead
KDF for PVP
Fed for PVE
Now both factions can switch to Romulan and be on even ground using battle cloaks. Adding a cloak to some Fed ships will make no difference. They just switch toons. Besides the cloak they get doesn't work very well during a battle. You have to wait till red alert goes away before you can cloak again. Currently KDF or Romulan can cloak and heal up then try another alpha. Feds are stuck till they run or die.
As far as exploration.. that is what feds did. It would be nice if they set it up so the new game factions were the ones we found in the exploration areas before they were released. Or at least separate it so you have a group of specific missions and species for each area. The old system was random species you normally see and the same missions no matter what side of the galaxy you are in. It would be a huge undertaking but would also add a more authentic feel to the game.
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I have no problem getting contraband. inspect freighter and search the crew missions appear all the time
more than a few of us say no to fed cloaks. but I do want a true federation carrier with a frigate class pet
and the people who bought the gamestop pre-order to get the original enterprise didn't get slapped in the face YEARS ago?
You owe me a new keyboard, now that I just spit a mouthful of sweet tea on it
you mean like the moron who wrote Star Trek 3? you know, when the Klingons got a ship called a "Bird of Prey" which was, prior to that stupid move was the name of the ROMULAN ships?
it's pretty clear you know nothing about fighters or aircraft carriers.
back in the 70s and 80s there was a rule: a carrier did not get underway without a minimum of 8 escorts. there was a reason for that, the Soviet union had the ability to saturate the carrier air wing. the escorts were not there to shoot down missiles, they were there to get in the way and take the missile hit. Today they will get underway with 2 or three. in reality, a CVN can go anywhere and take on any threat solo. very few air forces can overwhelm a carrier air wing. NO navy can attack a carrier and sink it with surface ships if the carrier chooses to deny that force. the ONLY weapons that can take out a carrier are a very lucky submarine getting past the ASW aircraft, or a very large number of missiles fired from ranges beyond the range of the carrier's fighters. the only other weapon that can do it is a ballistic missile.. and they don't work very well against something moving at 40 knots and maneuvering... unless it has a nuclear warhead.
as far as your comment about fighters... you think the missiles of today are not effective? technology helps but the PILOTS are what defeats a SAM system
BOPs should not have the option to mount beams.
KDF should have standard cloaks they should have variants with 5 tac slots.
no fed ship should have 5 tac slots.
feds should have the best shield mods to counter the loss of the tac slot.
Roms should be the only ones with battlecloaks above the BOP class
Scimitar turn rate should be the same as Odyssey.
Roms should have to give up SRO to get 5 tac slots.
all factions should have a carrier with frigate pets.
I think you're taking the point of the guy you were replying to wrong. I do believe it's a referral to how effective, how accurate weapons are... for Star Trek. Weapons are being fired at small objects over vast distances in space. Even in the Dominion War scenes when fighters have been shown, they didn't do anything, except maybe used as a distraction to hopefully draw away undisciplined ship captains away from a formation. The only things fighters did was to present themselves as pesky little targets to shoot at. And to die in large numbers.
I cannot remember any scene where fighters even downed any ship by themselves. I cannot even remember any scene where any fighters destroyed even a single Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, and those things were being destroyed left and right, blowing up in groups of 2's and 3's.
The only thing I can think of fighters even making an appearance in DS9 only, is for giving that "World War 2" ship combat flavor with fighters buzzing around. Because no other Star Trek show or movie has gone that direction. Even JJ-Trek hasn't.
The funny thing with Starfleet deploying disposable fighters in the Dominion War, despite their ineffectiveness, is that the organization places a high premium on lives. And yet, here they were, throwing cheap Peregrines away that did nothing but die quickly and give the Dominion alliance something else to shoot at. And even that didn't work that well.
maybe because the writers don't have a clue how it works either?
it's called force multipliers.
1 carrier launches 12 fighters. 12 fighters shoot 12 torpedos. target now has gone from one target to 25 targets, 12 of which are very high priority (the torpedos) 12 of high priority (the fighters, who are prparing to fire again)
if the devs wanted to do it correctly, each fighter would carry 2-4 heavy weapons (torpedos) that can be launched simultaneously. sure they retain a popgun phaser disruptor whatever, but to fire the heavy stuff they have to recover and rearm. and the need to do it from a distance.
the old starfleet command games did it correctly, and their AI is way better than Cryptics.
I never said that missiles were not effective, my point is that smart weapons 4/500 years from now are going to be a whole lot smarter. The Photon Torpedoes we fire in this game don't do justice to what these weapons are supposed to be capable of and those capabilities should be making something like a small piloted fighter redundant.
In any case this argument is way off topic for the original argument regarding cloaks and in spite of what you might suspect from some of my remarks, Im a firm believer that the different factions in this game should have unique technologies and abilities, so long as their counterparts have some ability that balances or negates those technological benefits. The main complaint here could be about Cryptics failure to provide that.
I don't really care i'm fed and i thought in star trek that starfleet ships can't have clocking devices i heard that in ST: TNG or ST: VOY.... because it in the federation laws.