QR to thread - I was sick on Friday and over the weekend, so I'm catching up on your feedback now. Hopefully by the end of the day I'll have some more useful responses for you.
The main problem I see is there is no reason to craft when you can go on the exchange and for far less time, money, less mouse clicks just buy what you wanted without any randomness. As for fleets with advanced and Elite stores why would they waste time crafting a random item when they can just get better none random items from the star base?
I keep looking at the crafting and thinking why would I bother leveling this when I get nothing out of it? You have to spend more on crafting then you could ever get back from selling the item. So no profits. The items you can craft are a lot worse then other items from other sources so not even sure why you would craft to use. So what is the end goal for crafting? What is the reason for players to want to craft?
The main problem I see is there is no reason to craft when you can go on the exchange and for far less time, money, less mouse clicks just buy what you wanted without any randomness. As for fleets with advanced and Elite stores why would they waste time crafting a random item when they can just get better none random items from the star base?
I keep looking at the crafting and thinking why would I bother leveling this when I get nothing out of it? You have to spend more on crafting then you could ever get back from selling the item. So no profits. The items you can craft are a lot worse then other items from other sources so not even sure why you would craft to use. So what is the end goal for crafting? What is the reason for players to want to craft?
Just throwing the idea out there, but are crafted goods - especially high end Very Rare and Ultra Rare crafted gear - bind-on-pickup or account/character bound only after you equip them? Because I was thinking that if it's possible to sell crafted gear, including the ultra rare gear, on the Exchange, then people might actually start crafting for more than just their alts, and it provides a viable way for non-Fleet people to obtain Fleet quality items and for crafters to recoup the cost and time they've sunk into building all this stuff.
Just throwing the idea out there, but are crafted goods - especially high end Very Rare and Ultra Rare crafted gear - bind-on-pickup or account/character bound only after you equip them? Because I was thinking that if it's possible to sell crafted gear, including the ultra rare gear, on the Exchange, then people might actually start crafting for more than just their alts, and it provides a viable way for non-Fleet people to obtain Fleet quality items and for crafters to recoup the cost and time they've sunk into building all this stuff.
I just don't think there'll ever be a market for the gear you level with, especially with god knows how many other people doing exactly the same thing, it just isn't going to work in the sense of recouping cost.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Just throwing the idea out there, but are crafted goods - especially high end Very Rare and Ultra Rare crafted gear - bind-on-pickup or account/character bound only after you equip them? Because I was thinking that if it's possible to sell crafted gear, including the ultra rare gear, on the Exchange, then people might actually start crafting for more than just their alts, and it provides a viable way for non-Fleet people to obtain Fleet quality items and for crafters to recoup the cost and time they've sunk into building all this stuff.
The thing is though at least in the current system you spend far more on crafting then you could ever sell for. Crafting goods are no better then the standard stuff that drops in missions. Add in the randomness and you could end up spending over 100x more on crafting the item you want over just buying off the exchange.
Why spend the equivalent of 10+million to craft a random item when you can buy the precise item you want for 1million? That to me is the big flaw in crafting.
The thing is though at least in the current system you spend far more on crafting then you could ever sell for. Crafting goods are no better then the standard stuff that drops in missions. Add in the randomness and you could end up spending over 100x more on crafting the item you want over just buying off the exchange.
Why spend the equivalent of 10+million to craft a random item when you can buy the precise item you want for 1million? That to me is the big flaw in crafting.
I always thought the whole point of crafting was making what you wanted.
Even an in-game (RP) reason to craft makes no sense if the item you end up with has random stats [Acc][CrtH] etc. I get the quality being random (Rare, Very rare, etc) but the stats shouldn't be. I also get that if could choose the stats, most people will make only certain weapons (All CrtH or All Acc etc). The cure for that is to make each iteration of of a stat cost more than the one before. So an [acc][crth][crtd] weapon is less than a [acc]x2[crth] weapon which is less than a [crtd]x3 weapon. Otherwise I know I won't craft anything if I can't make the weapon with no randomness. This is especially true if I have to also drop Dil on crafting. Dil = money or time and so random = gambling with real money. If you're gonna have us spend dil on crafting random items, can I also use dil at the Dabo tables?
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
QR to thread - I was sick on Friday and over the weekend, so I'm catching up on your feedback now. Hopefully by the end of the day I'll have some more useful responses for you.
Welcome back. I'm sorry you were sick, being sick sucks so I honestly hope you do feel better.
While you spend time going over the weekends feedback of the crafting revamp I beg you, with all due respect, to please consider everything. Yes there are some pretty negative posts out there and no one likes hearing "your X is bad and you should feel bad." But there is also an overwhelming amount of constructive criticism out there as well. The majority of it is centered around the dilitium costs on random results. For most of us that's a deal breaker. Personally I can handle random results or I can handle spending my dil, but I can't take both. As a player I have no problem spending dil for a known result. But if I don't know what I'm getting I won't spend 2 and 1/2 days of refinement, 2 and 1/2 days of game play, on a random result. And why should I when I can spend just a little more on unlocked reputation stores, or just buy Advanced or Elite gear from fleet stores where I know what I'm getting for my money?
If nothing else about the Tribble crafting system changes you either have to let us know exactly what we're getting for our 20,000 dilithium Mark 12 gear, or the only cost is our time spent gathering mats but the result is random. And in the case of the latter I do think an option to spend dilithium to speed up the time spent crafting is acceptable.
What I can tell you though is that if the system goes live as it I will not be spending zen on catalysts nor will I be spending dilithium on crafting. I will level up all the schools on my main character using crafting projects that do not cost dilithium, even if they take longer, just to get the traits at the end. After I have done that on my main character I will not craft again. And while I cannot speak for the majority I do know there are a number of other players who feel the same. We're at a revamp because the dev team knows enough people don't use the crafting system, and I don't think anyone wants the revamped crafting system to end up the same a year down the road.
So please, if nothing else seriously reconsider the dilithium or randomness factor of your crafting revamp.
Also, please bring back the exploration missions. Yes, we can all agree that they're not up to the standard of your current content. Yes, they're a buggy mess. But if you don't have some kind of replacement for them ready to go when Season 9.5 launches, please put them back until something to replace them is ready. Please don't take the "To seek out new life and new civilizations, to bodly go where no one has gone before" out of Star Trek.
Also, please bring back the exploration missions. Yes, we can all agree that they're not up to the standard of your current content. Yes, they're a buggy mess. But if you don't have some kind of replacement for them ready to go when Season 9.5 launches, please put them back until something to replace them is ready. Please don't take the "To seek out new life and new civilizations, to bodly go where no one has gone before" out of Star Trek.
Very much this. Even if there's something in the pipeline to replace them, take them out when that new replacement exploration system is ready, not when it's still a hypothetical that might not come out for another six months or a year or three. Star Trek is supposed to be about exploration and the final frontier, not just shooting aliens.
Why would you take away the exploration clusters?
They were a nice thing to do when you needed a breath of fresh air.
Now all you can do is STFs
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Here's my take on it. We're talking about 25th century engineering here, not semi-medieval magical smithing. The former should be pretty formulaic with known start and end points, where as the latter has room for the kind of randomness that exists in the current system. I want the Captain Picard sitting in his office tuning his phaser rifle to go on the offensive against the borg. I want the Ben Sisko building the Bajoran Sail ship. I want the crew of Voyager building the Delta Flyer. They all knew what the end result of their labors was going to be: A phaser rifle, a replica of an early space ship, and a shuttle that can fulfill a certain mission requirement.
My mission requirements have me wanting [ModA] [ModB] [ModC], in 6-8 slots. If I have to make 400 items to see one [ModA] [ModB] [ModC] item, the crafting system will be useless to me, because:
1.) It is not fun. Period. Fun is not repetitively doing the same thing again and again and again, also known as "Grinding". This has all the hallmarks of another "grind." Having sat and clicked and gotten maybe half a bar of XP for beams on Tribble, I'm not seeing this as a fun way to spend my future.
2.) Random drops should happen in the world, not in crafting. Crafting in the 25th century, as I said before, would be more about trying to refine components. The quality of your refracting lens or EPS conduit should have more impact on the outcome of the final product than what DoFF you task with assembling it (even though I would much prefer to not even have the DoFFs as part of crafting.... or task them with building the components, not the end product.)
3.) Reward vs Risk. Low reward, high risk = not worth it. Spending dilithium on a random item that will probably not be the one you want would be completely and totally uncool.
4.) Time vs Reward. High time, low reward = not worth it. (Note: Not saying I wouldn't invest time, I'm saying if I have to craft 400 items before I get 1/8th of what I want/need once I hit the top tier would be completely bogus. RNG in crafting is BAD) Again, this will already be a big enough time sink with just the need to farm the materials. We don't need a system that will invalidate hours of work by giving us something we don't want.
5.) Unless the crafting system gets access to some unique items, I'm afraid the name "R&D" doesn't even apply (and at this point, I don't really consider the Aegis set to be unique). Why? Because it's not really research and development if another part of your faction already has what you are researching and or developing.
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Well, in the meantime is there any way you could get somebody to set up the new star-cluster contact points as Foundry Doorways?
...We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that...
So you all want to rectify it, but you're not actively working on a replacement at this time, is that correct? Or is exploration revamp on the calendar, and if so, what's the ETA? Or what do you have planned to replace the Clusters?
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Guys I must say THIS IS REALLY STUPID:mad:
I've payed a lot of money in this game and then You delete content? I liked this Missions. It was sometimes really funny. sure, it was not that greate content, but it was good enough when I've 10 minutes time. I liked it to farm this little accolades with my Chars.
It is very stupid to delet content only because of the new players. I played this 4 years, how is more important? The stupid new guy, or me who have payed more then 5000 in this Time?
.....
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
.
So they are gone and you have no plans to improve the exploration system. The content was TRIBBLE, so it is easier to jettison it whole rather than actually do some work to improve it.
Am I reading that right?
"Star Trek Online is powered by the most abundant resource in the galaxy . . . Gullibility"
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
what about the 1440 daily dilithium we're losing?
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Then how about a space map for each cluster instead of an interact object in sector space similar to what you did with those around Tau Dewa. You can still enter and still obtain dept head duty officer missions from the clusters, if you have the tuffli you can invite others to do the same, as well as throw in a few anomalies to scan without entering any system maps. If it's too easy to farm then place a cooldown via a mission like strange new worlds on the anomalies and limit the drops. You could do that for all the various clusters with each having its own timer and get people using the maps again.
Just a suggestion that could still take the old genesis/crappy maps out while allowing some anomaly scans and keeping the Tuffli and Suliban ships still valid. This will also allow people to still get their 1440 dilithium but attach it to doing three different clusters rather than three planet missions in the clusters. I will say some of the most beautiful planet maps in the game are some of the random ones. I definitely like putting the clusters in sector space rather than their own sectors.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
I totally get and understand this. I saw it first hand with a friend.
Now give us more than one featured mission a (half) season!
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
There was never any "exploration" in these clusters to me, so it's a non-issue. The real exploration in Trek was never about charting gaseous anomalies or whatever loose justification they gave for the Enterprise being where it was anyway.
There was never any "exploration" in these clusters to me, so it's a non-issue. The real exploration in Trek was never about charting gaseous anomalies or whatever loose justification they gave for the Enterprise being where it was anyway.
i think Q said it best:
"That is the exploration that awaits you; not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence."
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Then how about a space map for each cluster instead of an interact object in sector space similar to what you did with those around Tau Dewa. You can still enter and still obtain dept head duty officer missions from the clusters, if you have the tuffli you can invite others to do the same, as well as throw in a few anomalies to scan without entering any system maps. If it's too easy to farm then place a cooldown via a mission like strange new worlds on the anomalies and limit the drops. You could do that for all the various clusters with each having its own timer and get people using the maps again.
Just a suggestion that could still take the old genesis/crappy maps out while allowing some anomaly scans and keeping the Tuffli and Suliban ships still valid. This will also allow people to still get their 1440 dilithium but attach it to doing three different clusters rather than three planet missions in the clusters. I will say some of the most beautiful planet maps in the game are some of the random ones. I definitely like putting the clusters in sector space rather than their own sectors.
That'd be much better than getting completely rid of the Clusters. Yes, people will still lose exploration, but at least other people won't loose doffing.
(For the record, though, I think axing old stuff should wait till you have a replacement for it - best a replacement accepted at least by a good part of players. So I'd still consider keeping all of the exploration better.)
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
No, don't keep the clusters as separate maps. I love the way they're working on Tribble. Just make sure we have access to the same number of cluster-specific assignments as its possible to get on Holodeck right now.
I don't know if the thing with the bridge invites was intentional or just an exploit. If it wasn't intentional, then too bad, exploits are bound to be fixed sooner or later. If it was, then work something out that doesn't require the clusters to be behind load screens. Sector space is annoying enough as it is, this is one of the few improvements its gotten since I started playing.
This is the biggest problem with cutting out exploration, I think. Removing variety and limiting choice in how we play the game....
There are so many less tedious ways of getting that dilithium that I really have a hard time caring. Example: Run investigate officer reports and get a single, good mission for your trouble instead.
So you all want to rectify it, but you're not actively working on a replacement at this time, is that correct? Or is exploration revamp on the calendar, and if so, what's the ETA? Or what do you have planned to replace the Clusters?
^This^
Some rather important questions for some of us right there.
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Must say, removing them without already having a system to replace them is a really terrible idea. I enjoyed star cluster missions for trying out new gear, or just to pass the time whilst STFs were on cooldown, or better yet as a break from STFs. End game is so limited in what we have available to do, it's all about the grind for marks and star clusters were a nice break from that.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I'm going to have to agree. I liked the old DOFF UI better. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
I really hate it when companies come out with new products that they think are awesome, but aren't. They change things that shouldn't have been changed in the first place, because they think it will generate more money, but it doesn't, it just pisses off the consumers. Perfect example is Microsoft with Windows 8.
I want a simple Doff UI. I don't want to have to spend 3 hours sending my doffs out on missions when it should take less than 10 minutes. Just because it looks pretty, doesn't mean its better.
^^ Amen.
Compared to the current Doff UI, the new Doff UI with Crafting is TRIBBLE. I'm sure someone put a lot of work into it and I mean no offense, but it is less functional period. It's a back to the drawing board situation.
QR to thread - I was sick on Friday and over the weekend, so I'm catching up on your feedback now. Hopefully by the end of the day I'll have some more useful responses for you.
I certainly hope you feel better, it's horrible that you lost your weekend as I'm sure you need your rest at this job.
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
I'm not sure if the accolades are as important as the Dilithium of Explore Strange New Worlds.
The exploration cluster missions were fun every once in a while, but I got burned out on them a while ago.
I also get that new player retention has made this a pressing issue that couldn't wait. But replacement content is needed rapidly. There are plenty of suggestions in these forums if you need inspiration.
So when 9.5 comes out is the patch going to automatically delete the content from our drives?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Thank you. This is the singular most important part of this post. I understand the quality and space issues, and can't fault anyone for that, but those accolades represent a lot of time to have them threatened with deletion. Look forward to seeing what they become!
QR to thread - I was sick on Friday and over the weekend, so I'm catching up on your feedback now. Hopefully by the end of the day I'll have some more useful responses for you.
Sorry to hear you were sick. Hope you're feeling better now.
I've posted in a few of the other threads, but for a sum up, here are my main points.
DOFFing changes.
These are the UI changes, not the crafting stuff that is new. The new DOFFing screen takes up more screen space to present information that before cost me one click of the mouse and took up less space. I'd rather click that have to take up the entire screen for that information.
Also, please do not have DOFFs prechosen for us. You know that episode in TOS where the M5 is making the decision about the away team, and Kirk gets mad it doesn't make the same choice as he does. Kinda the same thing, I want to choose my DOFFs, for better or worse. You can recommend, but don't slot them.
And finally, when choosing DOFFs, we need to see their traits, not their crafting experience. I'm hoping the last is a bug due to the alpha of this build because it makes no sense to me. Also, in the choosing DOFFs section, I liked the old way where it was a list in the DOFF screen, and not a separate pop up.
Crafting.
For crafting itself, first a lot has been said about the prices, but I know the prices are probably going to stay, so I'll say this. I am not willing to risk spending 20K dilithium on something that might end up not being a purple item. So, I would recommend either lowering the dilithium price and keeping the chance, or keeping the price but making it so that purple is guaranteed. Personally, I would support any price of dilithium that added to the time spent getting the materials and crafting them up, equals the price of an equivalent piece of gear. So say it takes 4 hours to get the materials and craft everything up (not counting leveling of crafting). In four hours you could get 8,000 dilithium. So then a fair price would be the price of the equivalent item minus 8,000 dilithium. And then we get a purple item, no chance involved.
Also, I would want a choice of mods, which I'm not seeing right now.
Finally, okay this offers another way to hopefully get end game gear, but we have plenty of sources for this. It has been said that there will be unique mods available, but I am hoping for something special, like being able to use the arc mod on any weapon, and not have it be the only one allowed on the ship. Or something else. But I guess I'll be waiting for that.
Exploration Clusters.
Sorry to see these go, they might not have been fancy, but they could be fun. I am really hoping that they will be replaced by something, and would very much like a yes or no and timeframe of their replacement.
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Well i think u going the wrong way with that. If that content is to difficult for some players, u should do a proper toutorial for it not remove it, just think what we stay left of the game if u remove all that is to difficutl for some people. Some also say that change with the doff UI was done for the same reason. Maybe now its more esay to click something, but i highly doubt that peolple now understand it besser --> toutorial is that better way to make the unterstand what to do.
About the qualitiy of the mission, if i compare it with other content i cant see that piont. The mission may a bit more simple in there structure but therefore there are many different of them. I always enjoyed them and still do.
So they are gone and you have no plans to improve the exploration system. The content was TRIBBLE, so it is easier to jettison it whole rather than actually do some work to improve it.
Am I reading that right?
You are, but if you understood how they were made... you would get it. They were built with Genisis... notice how all of them are the same... Press F five times, destroy 5 things, ect... The missions were randomly generated... hundred's of them. To rebuild genesis to produce better quality stuff would probably take way way too many resources. There is a point when you can fix something or dump it. I think they made a good case to dump it.
I've payed a lot of money in this game and then You delete content? I liked this Missions. It was sometimes really funny. sure, it was not that greate content, but it was good enough when I've 10 minutes time. I liked it to farm this little accolades with my Chars.
It is very stupid to delet content only because of the new players. I played this 4 years, how is more important? The stupid new guy, or me who have payed more then 5000 in this Time?
BRING BACK THE STAR CLUSTER MISSIONS:mad:
I love when people who think they spend a lot of money are more important than new players.... New players keep the game alive... not old players who "spent a lot of money"
I bet Cryptic has a number somewhere that is the average amount of money spent by accounts less than a year old... Based on what Adjuticatorhawk said, they also have a number of the amount of people with the likely attributes:
They have not returned
Their last location was Delta Volanis
Their total time played was relatively short, like under an hour or two.
Those two numbers multiplied by each other is the potential loss of income that Cryptic risks by maintaining the Star cluster missions. It is probably way higher than the amount of money you have spent on this game. In addition, if Cryptic can't fix these missions or Genesis without devoting resources lower than the value of the potential income lost, then the logical choice is to dump it.
In an F2P MMO... the "stupid new guy" is way more important than you, that is why it is an F2P. Sorry that you had to learn this way.
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Just spotted a major flaw in the new system at higher level. At 20k Dilithium a high end crafter can only craft 1 item per 3 days. Not only that but how would someone level up crafting when you can only produce one item every 3 days after heavy grinding? How many years would it take to get to level 20 crafting with the limit of 1 item per 3 days?
Do we really want a crafting system that limits us to 1 random item every 3 days?
EDItT The higher the level you get the less items you can craft and the longer it takes to craft. the 8k Dilithium limit per day has a massive impact on crafting speed.
Just spotted a major flaw in the new system assuming its true about the Dilithium requirements at higher level. At 20k Dilithium a high end crafter can only craft 1 item per 3 days. Not only that but how would someone level up crafting when you can only produce one item every 3 days after heavy grinding.
Do we really want a crafting system that limits us to 1 item every 3 days?
I have a million dilithium sitting around. I don't have that limitation, you don't save your dilithium? You can also buy it on the exchange.
Also as Captain Geko said in the Priority one podcast, this is a very very alpha version. The first functional version. Final numbers and costs are literally just thrown out there and are no where near correct or finalized.
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Comments
The main problem I see is there is no reason to craft when you can go on the exchange and for far less time, money, less mouse clicks just buy what you wanted without any randomness. As for fleets with advanced and Elite stores why would they waste time crafting a random item when they can just get better none random items from the star base?
I keep looking at the crafting and thinking why would I bother leveling this when I get nothing out of it? You have to spend more on crafting then you could ever get back from selling the item. So no profits. The items you can craft are a lot worse then other items from other sources so not even sure why you would craft to use. So what is the end goal for crafting? What is the reason for players to want to craft?
Just throwing the idea out there, but are crafted goods - especially high end Very Rare and Ultra Rare crafted gear - bind-on-pickup or account/character bound only after you equip them? Because I was thinking that if it's possible to sell crafted gear, including the ultra rare gear, on the Exchange, then people might actually start crafting for more than just their alts, and it provides a viable way for non-Fleet people to obtain Fleet quality items and for crafters to recoup the cost and time they've sunk into building all this stuff.
I just don't think there'll ever be a market for the gear you level with, especially with god knows how many other people doing exactly the same thing, it just isn't going to work in the sense of recouping cost.
Why spend the equivalent of 10+million to craft a random item when you can buy the precise item you want for 1million? That to me is the big flaw in crafting.
I always thought the whole point of crafting was making what you wanted.
Even an in-game (RP) reason to craft makes no sense if the item you end up with has random stats [Acc][CrtH] etc. I get the quality being random (Rare, Very rare, etc) but the stats shouldn't be. I also get that if could choose the stats, most people will make only certain weapons (All CrtH or All Acc etc). The cure for that is to make each iteration of of a stat cost more than the one before. So an [acc][crth][crtd] weapon is less than a [acc]x2[crth] weapon which is less than a [crtd]x3 weapon. Otherwise I know I won't craft anything if I can't make the weapon with no randomness. This is especially true if I have to also drop Dil on crafting. Dil = money or time and so random = gambling with real money. If you're gonna have us spend dil on crafting random items, can I also use dil at the Dabo tables?
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Welcome back. I'm sorry you were sick, being sick sucks so I honestly hope you do feel better.
While you spend time going over the weekends feedback of the crafting revamp I beg you, with all due respect, to please consider everything. Yes there are some pretty negative posts out there and no one likes hearing "your X is bad and you should feel bad." But there is also an overwhelming amount of constructive criticism out there as well. The majority of it is centered around the dilitium costs on random results. For most of us that's a deal breaker. Personally I can handle random results or I can handle spending my dil, but I can't take both. As a player I have no problem spending dil for a known result. But if I don't know what I'm getting I won't spend 2 and 1/2 days of refinement, 2 and 1/2 days of game play, on a random result. And why should I when I can spend just a little more on unlocked reputation stores, or just buy Advanced or Elite gear from fleet stores where I know what I'm getting for my money?
If nothing else about the Tribble crafting system changes you either have to let us know exactly what we're getting for our 20,000 dilithium Mark 12 gear, or the only cost is our time spent gathering mats but the result is random. And in the case of the latter I do think an option to spend dilithium to speed up the time spent crafting is acceptable.
What I can tell you though is that if the system goes live as it I will not be spending zen on catalysts nor will I be spending dilithium on crafting. I will level up all the schools on my main character using crafting projects that do not cost dilithium, even if they take longer, just to get the traits at the end. After I have done that on my main character I will not craft again. And while I cannot speak for the majority I do know there are a number of other players who feel the same. We're at a revamp because the dev team knows enough people don't use the crafting system, and I don't think anyone wants the revamped crafting system to end up the same a year down the road.
So please, if nothing else seriously reconsider the dilithium or randomness factor of your crafting revamp.
Also, please bring back the exploration missions. Yes, we can all agree that they're not up to the standard of your current content. Yes, they're a buggy mess. But if you don't have some kind of replacement for them ready to go when Season 9.5 launches, please put them back until something to replace them is ready. Please don't take the "To seek out new life and new civilizations, to bodly go where no one has gone before" out of Star Trek.
Very much this. Even if there's something in the pipeline to replace them, take them out when that new replacement exploration system is ready, not when it's still a hypothetical that might not come out for another six months or a year or three. Star Trek is supposed to be about exploration and the final frontier, not just shooting aliens.
I can answer this succinctly without touching on the rest of the thread yet - The Star Cluster missions were really out of date and a generally awful game experience for any new players who stumbled upon them. While those of us who are veterans of the game were able to accept them as their own thing and do them only when we wanted to, new players would (with moderate frequency) enter a star cluster mission, get lost or get blocked on an unclear objective, and then quit and never return.
Additionally, the Star Cluster missions took up a sizable portion of the game's install size. This also negatively impacts new players, as the longer it takes to download and install the game, the less likely they are to actually complete the process and give it a shot. So the very existence of Star Cluster missions was essentially dinging our player retention at least twice for each new player.
We recognize that removing them has removed a feeling of exploration from the game, and we know that the feeling of exploration is important to the Star Trek vision and feel - we'll want to rectify that. However, the presence of the Star Cluster missions in the game just provided so many negatives that they outweighed the positive of holding on to that feel of exploration.
We're looking in to modifying the Exploration Accolades so that they're still obtainable.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
My mission requirements have me wanting [ModA] [ModB] [ModC], in 6-8 slots. If I have to make 400 items to see one [ModA] [ModB] [ModC] item, the crafting system will be useless to me, because:
1.) It is not fun. Period. Fun is not repetitively doing the same thing again and again and again, also known as "Grinding". This has all the hallmarks of another "grind." Having sat and clicked and gotten maybe half a bar of XP for beams on Tribble, I'm not seeing this as a fun way to spend my future.
2.) Random drops should happen in the world, not in crafting. Crafting in the 25th century, as I said before, would be more about trying to refine components. The quality of your refracting lens or EPS conduit should have more impact on the outcome of the final product than what DoFF you task with assembling it (even though I would much prefer to not even have the DoFFs as part of crafting.... or task them with building the components, not the end product.)
3.) Reward vs Risk. Low reward, high risk = not worth it. Spending dilithium on a random item that will probably not be the one you want would be completely and totally uncool.
4.) Time vs Reward. High time, low reward = not worth it. (Note: Not saying I wouldn't invest time, I'm saying if I have to craft 400 items before I get 1/8th of what I want/need once I hit the top tier would be completely bogus. RNG in crafting is BAD) Again, this will already be a big enough time sink with just the need to farm the materials. We don't need a system that will invalidate hours of work by giving us something we don't want.
5.) Unless the crafting system gets access to some unique items, I'm afraid the name "R&D" doesn't even apply (and at this point, I don't really consider the Aegis set to be unique). Why? Because it's not really research and development if another part of your faction already has what you are researching and or developing.
Why do I feel like a broken record player?
Well, in the meantime is there any way you could get somebody to set up the new star-cluster contact points as Foundry Doorways?
Well, that's nice.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Guys I must say THIS IS REALLY STUPID:mad:
I've payed a lot of money in this game and then You delete content? I liked this Missions. It was sometimes really funny. sure, it was not that greate content, but it was good enough when I've 10 minutes time. I liked it to farm this little accolades with my Chars.
It is very stupid to delet content only because of the new players. I played this 4 years, how is more important? The stupid new guy, or me who have payed more then 5000 in this Time?
BRING BACK THE STAR CLUSTER MISSIONS:mad:
So they are gone and you have no plans to improve the exploration system. The content was TRIBBLE, so it is easier to jettison it whole rather than actually do some work to improve it.
Am I reading that right?
what about the 1440 daily dilithium we're losing?
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
Then how about a space map for each cluster instead of an interact object in sector space similar to what you did with those around Tau Dewa. You can still enter and still obtain dept head duty officer missions from the clusters, if you have the tuffli you can invite others to do the same, as well as throw in a few anomalies to scan without entering any system maps. If it's too easy to farm then place a cooldown via a mission like strange new worlds on the anomalies and limit the drops. You could do that for all the various clusters with each having its own timer and get people using the maps again.
Just a suggestion that could still take the old genesis/crappy maps out while allowing some anomaly scans and keeping the Tuffli and Suliban ships still valid. This will also allow people to still get their 1440 dilithium but attach it to doing three different clusters rather than three planet missions in the clusters. I will say some of the most beautiful planet maps in the game are some of the random ones. I definitely like putting the clusters in sector space rather than their own sectors.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Now give us more than one featured mission a (half) season!
There was never any "exploration" in these clusters to me, so it's a non-issue. The real exploration in Trek was never about charting gaseous anomalies or whatever loose justification they gave for the Enterprise being where it was anyway.
"That is the exploration that awaits you; not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence."
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That'd be much better than getting completely rid of the Clusters. Yes, people will still lose exploration, but at least other people won't loose doffing.
(For the record, though, I think axing old stuff should wait till you have a replacement for it - best a replacement accepted at least by a good part of players. So I'd still consider keeping all of the exploration better.)
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
This is the biggest problem with cutting out exploration, I think. Removing variety and limiting choice in how we play the game....
I don't know if the thing with the bridge invites was intentional or just an exploit. If it wasn't intentional, then too bad, exploits are bound to be fixed sooner or later. If it was, then work something out that doesn't require the clusters to be behind load screens. Sector space is annoying enough as it is, this is one of the few improvements its gotten since I started playing.
There are so many less tedious ways of getting that dilithium that I really have a hard time caring. Example: Run investigate officer reports and get a single, good mission for your trouble instead.
^This^
Some rather important questions for some of us right there.
Must say, removing them without already having a system to replace them is a really terrible idea. I enjoyed star cluster missions for trying out new gear, or just to pass the time whilst STFs were on cooldown, or better yet as a break from STFs. End game is so limited in what we have available to do, it's all about the grind for marks and star clusters were a nice break from that.
Compared to the current Doff UI, the new Doff UI with Crafting is TRIBBLE. I'm sure someone put a lot of work into it and I mean no offense, but it is less functional period. It's a back to the drawing board situation. I certainly hope you feel better, it's horrible that you lost your weekend as I'm sure you need your rest at this job.
I'm not sure if the accolades are as important as the Dilithium of Explore Strange New Worlds.
The exploration cluster missions were fun every once in a while, but I got burned out on them a while ago.
I also get that new player retention has made this a pressing issue that couldn't wait. But replacement content is needed rapidly. There are plenty of suggestions in these forums if you need inspiration.
So when 9.5 comes out is the patch going to automatically delete the content from our drives?
Thank you. This is the singular most important part of this post. I understand the quality and space issues, and can't fault anyone for that, but those accolades represent a lot of time to have them threatened with deletion. Look forward to seeing what they become!
Sorry to hear you were sick. Hope you're feeling better now.
I've posted in a few of the other threads, but for a sum up, here are my main points.
DOFFing changes.
These are the UI changes, not the crafting stuff that is new. The new DOFFing screen takes up more screen space to present information that before cost me one click of the mouse and took up less space. I'd rather click that have to take up the entire screen for that information.
Also, please do not have DOFFs prechosen for us. You know that episode in TOS where the M5 is making the decision about the away team, and Kirk gets mad it doesn't make the same choice as he does. Kinda the same thing, I want to choose my DOFFs, for better or worse. You can recommend, but don't slot them.
And finally, when choosing DOFFs, we need to see their traits, not their crafting experience. I'm hoping the last is a bug due to the alpha of this build because it makes no sense to me. Also, in the choosing DOFFs section, I liked the old way where it was a list in the DOFF screen, and not a separate pop up.
Crafting.
For crafting itself, first a lot has been said about the prices, but I know the prices are probably going to stay, so I'll say this. I am not willing to risk spending 20K dilithium on something that might end up not being a purple item. So, I would recommend either lowering the dilithium price and keeping the chance, or keeping the price but making it so that purple is guaranteed. Personally, I would support any price of dilithium that added to the time spent getting the materials and crafting them up, equals the price of an equivalent piece of gear. So say it takes 4 hours to get the materials and craft everything up (not counting leveling of crafting). In four hours you could get 8,000 dilithium. So then a fair price would be the price of the equivalent item minus 8,000 dilithium. And then we get a purple item, no chance involved.
Also, I would want a choice of mods, which I'm not seeing right now.
Finally, okay this offers another way to hopefully get end game gear, but we have plenty of sources for this. It has been said that there will be unique mods available, but I am hoping for something special, like being able to use the arc mod on any weapon, and not have it be the only one allowed on the ship. Or something else. But I guess I'll be waiting for that.
Exploration Clusters.
Sorry to see these go, they might not have been fancy, but they could be fun. I am really hoping that they will be replaced by something, and would very much like a yes or no and timeframe of their replacement.
Nouveau riche LTS member
Bring back exploration clusters or remake them as such as no functionality through the doffing system was lost.
Well i think u going the wrong way with that. If that content is to difficult for some players, u should do a proper toutorial for it not remove it, just think what we stay left of the game if u remove all that is to difficutl for some people. Some also say that change with the doff UI was done for the same reason. Maybe now its more esay to click something, but i highly doubt that peolple now understand it besser --> toutorial is that better way to make the unterstand what to do.
About the qualitiy of the mission, if i compare it with other content i cant see that piont. The mission may a bit more simple in there structure but therefore there are many different of them. I always enjoyed them and still do.
You are, but if you understood how they were made... you would get it. They were built with Genisis... notice how all of them are the same... Press F five times, destroy 5 things, ect... The missions were randomly generated... hundred's of them. To rebuild genesis to produce better quality stuff would probably take way way too many resources. There is a point when you can fix something or dump it. I think they made a good case to dump it.
I love when people who think they spend a lot of money are more important than new players.... New players keep the game alive... not old players who "spent a lot of money"
I bet Cryptic has a number somewhere that is the average amount of money spent by accounts less than a year old... Based on what Adjuticatorhawk said, they also have a number of the amount of people with the likely attributes:
Those two numbers multiplied by each other is the potential loss of income that Cryptic risks by maintaining the Star cluster missions. It is probably way higher than the amount of money you have spent on this game. In addition, if Cryptic can't fix these missions or Genesis without devoting resources lower than the value of the potential income lost, then the logical choice is to dump it.
In an F2P MMO... the "stupid new guy" is way more important than you, that is why it is an F2P. Sorry that you had to learn this way.
Do we really want a crafting system that limits us to 1 random item every 3 days?
EDItT The higher the level you get the less items you can craft and the longer it takes to craft. the 8k Dilithium limit per day has a massive impact on crafting speed.
I have a million dilithium sitting around. I don't have that limitation, you don't save your dilithium? You can also buy it on the exchange.
Also as Captain Geko said in the Priority one podcast, this is a very very alpha version. The first functional version. Final numbers and costs are literally just thrown out there and are no where near correct or finalized.