It is lazy and OP - and that is why half the builds in PvE are using it. It's one of the reasons that a team was able to complete Infected space "Elite" in only 63 seconds.
One of the dumpest mechanics in the game.
Set all weapons to fire - hit Fire at will and Spacebar to win!!
And I've done that, its called steam rolling STF's, and yeah its lazy, but it works.
Yet even though I have used it I would be one of the first to say it needs to be looked at, but the crazy TRIBBLE that is being spewed about this isn't even close to balancing whats not balanced, its a whine fest that isn't ever going to be agreed on.
The solution is so simple, yet its got this dramatic over complicated following that must have their way.
That being said, and going back to saying I would be the first to ask for a change, at this point seeing all this crying and whine and cheese fest I hope they don't fix it. You can't beat your drum about traits being the problem then scream your solution only made it worse and again scream this will fix it when its a larger problem, that has a simple easy fix.
And I've done that, its called steam rolling STF's, and yeah its lazy, but it works.
Yet even though I have used it I would be one of the first to say it needs to be looked at, but the crazy TRIBBLE that is being spewed about this isn't even close to balancing whats not balanced, its a whine fest that isn't ever going to be agreed on.
The solution is so simple, yet its got this dramatic over complicated following that must have their way.
That being said, and going back to saying I would be the first to ask for a change, at this point seeing all this crying and whine and cheese fest I hope they don't fix it. You can't beat your drum about traits being the problem then scream your solution only made it worse and again scream this will fix it when its a larger problem, that has a simple easy fix.
I updated my post a bit - to include one of the real problems - too much systems power.
So this means that firing 8 beams - which used to take a players power down to say 50-60 will stay above 90 almost all the time while fire 8 beams!! Add in a Marion doff and DEM3 and you get a tactical captain putting out 8 beams with max dmg almost all the time.
It's stupidly broken.
7 beams, one cutting, power doesn't drop below 110 in weapons, ever, that's not just a2b though, that's build, consoles, core.
7 beams, one cutting, power doesn't drop below 110 in weapons, ever, that's not just a2b though, that's build, consoles, core.
Right - mine was the lowest number - but does that include the Marion doff - over powered - The Warp Core doff - Over powered - 3 Over powered Damage control engineers stacked? Add in an Attack patter doff?
Perhaps stack up some Inspirational leader traits? Over power at stacked to 3.
Of course in this case we are not talking about an Aux to Battery build - that is another matter all together.
I updated my post a bit - to include one of the real problems - too much systems power.
That's at the route of quite a few problems, imho. It used to be a balancing effect - heck, even a reason that Cryptic nerfed the Eng consoles; cause they saw the problem with too much Subsystem Power. Then what did they turn around and do? Lol...folks oozing power...meh.
Right - mine was the lowest number - but does that include the Marion doff - over powered - The Warp Core doff - Over powered - 3 Over powered Damage control engineers stacked? Add in an Attack patter doff?
Perhaps stack up some Inspirational leader traits? Over power at stacked to 3.
Of course in this case we are not talking about an Aux to Battery build - that is another matter all together.
That is with a2b, that's how my a2b runs, its not just a2b, its consoles, core, build.
How do people generate insane numbers with a2b, ^
with the correct consoles, the elite cores, and the correct build, it is a monster, and that's the problem, anyone wanting to fix it has to look at it as a whole, not just one thing. They tried that with traits, and it made the problem worse than it was before.
I can do more damage and survive longer now with this build than before the traits were nerfed, that's why I'm saying most of this dramatic TRIBBLE people are spewing isn't going to change anything.
Its a simple change, cooldowns, change the way A2b affects cooldowns, don't take it away, just change it, cause the problem is a2b, faw, rapid fire, hell anything that runs off of a2b. Let a2b keep the cooldown reduction, just give that very reduction a cooldown of its own. can only proc every 20 seconds.
Simple fix, still works, still gives power, still gives power every time you use it, cool down reduction is on a timer.
There is only one time on screen that I know of where you see something close to STO's bfaw - that is the opening of the battle between Enterprise and the Scimitar. There Captain Picard orders a "Full phaser spread" - for the rest of the battle almost all beam shots are cycled through the various arrays.
All other instances on screen that I know of are mostly just one array firing at a time - while they use the same array - or "cycle" through the arrays.
The last few changes to Bfaw did very very little to reduce it's OP effectiveness. A slightly longer CD and slightly less uptime than other attacks.
Ok so now your quoting cannon, so ok lets look at this from the scene to which you are referring. The Enterprise has a minimum of 12 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo tubes (information taken from Memory alpha site) So thats at least 17 weapon slots we're looking at not just the 8 we currently have, And the point at which each beam leaves the ship is actually the emitter array so it is possible that multiple emitter arrays can be fed from a single source or a single emitter could draw power from multiple sources as referenced when Picard suggests targeting all their phasers into a concentrated pattern.
And forgive me for saying but when he gives the fire all phasers orders I'm counting a lot more than twelve beams firing, from bow to stern. And the most logical reason for only firing one array at a time would be to conserve weapons power until they have a positive target lock. If you watch the scene from "Yesterdays Enterprise". The ship fires multiple shots in a short space of time eventually culminating in what could be considered a beam overload when the first K'vort class cruiser is destroyed.
And in all fairness I dont understand what your beef is with FAW anyway, there are buff's such as transfer shield strength, and emergency power to shields that provide a damage resistance and when combined with tactical team should pretty much counter the effects of FAW or if your a science hit them with the Subnucleonic beam that will pretty much TRIBBLE up any powers your opponent is running and provide you with some breathing room. Then there's powers such as reverse shield polarity and the metaphasic shield set bonus which convert incoming energy weapons fire into shield power. Most things in game can be beaten its just a case of thinking outside the box and turning away from the cookie cutter builds that everyone seems to believe that must be used.
I've tanked a 28k scimitar to a stalemate. But the same ships were then reduced to wreckage because some bright spark in our fleet watched what was happening went away and came back with a build that neutralized the key features of both ships.
It does need to be looked at, but A2B should be left alone. You nerf A2B, you nerf 75% of the cruisers out there in DPS. They simply don't have the Tac BoFF slots to make up for it. Unless you want Escorts Online 2.
That is with a2b, that's how my a2b runs, its not just a2b, its consoles, core, build.
How do people generate insane numbers with a2b, ^
with the correct consoles, the elite cores, and the correct build, it is a monster, and that's the problem, anyone wanting to fix it has to look at it as a whole, not just one thing. They tried that with traits, and it made the problem worse than it was before.
I can do more damage and survive longer now with this build than before the traits were nerfed, that's why I'm saying most of this dramatic TRIBBLE people are spewing isn't going to change anything.
Its a simple change, cooldowns, change the way A2b affects cooldowns, don't take it away, just change it, cause the problem is a2b, faw, rapid fire, hell anything that runs off of a2b. Let a2b keep the cooldown reduction, just give that very reduction a cooldown of its own. can only proc every 20 seconds.
Simple fix, still works, still gives power, still gives power every time you use it, cool down reduction is on a timer.
The "simple" fix that many many players that know the games systems almost as well as the Devs - have said to put BACK - Aux To Battery on a shared cooldown with Emergency Power to X
Putting Aux To Battery back on the shared cooldown would nerf a significant amount of the power creep- literally the massive sub-systems power creep.
Doing this would remove the need to "nerf" a lot of the doff and trait stacking problem - but the problem of too much systems power needs to be addressed - FAW was not as OP in the past when most players weapons power was properly drained down to the 50-60 range while firing 7+ beam arrarys.
Doing this would remove the need to "nerf" a lot of the doff and trait stacking problem - but the problem of too much systems power needs to be addressed - FAW was not as OP in the past when most players weapons power was properly drained down to the 50-60 range while firing 7+ beam arrarys.
The drain aspect really didn't change - sure, it's another inconsistent thing that doesn't work the same for everybody...but that part didn't really change. You could still overcap Weapon Power out the wahzoo - but that power had to come from somewhere. You gave up something for that overcap - thus...it was balanced. With no longer really having to give anything up because of oozing power - tada...it is no longer balanced.
That's where a bunch of the issues, imho, have come about. There were all these various balancing side-effects which brought about the balance, but with so much stuff added - those balancing bits aren't there anymore - and - balance is long gone...
The drain aspect really didn't change - sure, it's another inconsistent thing that doesn't work the same for everybody...but that part didn't really change. You could still overcap Weapon Power out the wahzoo - but that power had to come from somewhere. You gave up something for that overcap - thus...it was balanced. With no longer really having to give anything up because of oozing power - tada...it is no longer balanced.
That's where a bunch of the issues, imho, have come about. There were all these various balancing side-effects which brought about the balance, but with so much stuff added - those balancing bits aren't there anymore - and - balance is long gone...
Yes I agree - it is an across the board sub-system power creep. As I said before many people can get insane weapons power AND also have full (or almost full) power in Shields and engines - that is stupid. You should be a glass cannon or a tank - when they made players become both - it ruined the balance and made the game faceroll easy.
The problem then comes back to the class issue and Escorts online - the game changed so that tanks and healers are useless unless they are damage dealers as well
But I expect little changes as Al Rivera has said he prefers not to nerf things. But without much harder content or some nerfs - I can't see their long-term player retention numbers staying too high.
Well a few changes are inbound next week with S9.5 and the new lock box that make this thread relevant again,
Like more trait stacking and more OP doffs?
Again there is this weird setup: some stuff stacks and some does not.
For example :
•Beams ◦On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
•Cannons ◦On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
•Projectiles ◦Your Torpedoes and Mines penetrate an extra 10% of your target’s shields
Beams - which are totally OP due to 3 x Tech doff stacking/FAW/AtB boats get a trait that boost beam damage some more and can stack,
same for cannons - because heck we all know escorts need another 3+ turn and 3+ Inertia so they are completely immune to most attacks - right?
But - the trait which gives a tiny buff to Torpedo effectiveness - Can't stack? What's the logic - torps have not beam buffed in years outside of 1 or 2 special rep torps - but beams/energy weapons need to be made more powerful?
Granted the beam trait seems kind of weak by itself - but running the numbers with a 5 tac console BFAW scimitar might make it OP or not?
The 3 stacking cannon trait is not OP? Kind of looks OP at 3 stacks.
But the torp trait at 10% bleedthrough is OP I guess so it can't stack - right?
I don't get the inconsistency:(
This whole doff stacking/ OP doffs/ OP traits/ stacking traits - is totally not consistent at all
When will the devs do a balance pass for some consistency across the game?
P.S. - Hawk - you talked in another thread about wanting to nerf/fix/adjust - etc etc - Aux to battery - why don't you just start by making all doffs/traits that stack have diminishing returns?
Yah, from what I've seen a lot of the power builds (either ATB or Drake/Dragon builds) comes from stacking DOFF's in order to reduce cooldowns down to the global.
Limiting the stacking somehow would probably be for the best.
Yah, from what I've seen a lot of the power builds (either ATB or Drake/Dragon builds) comes from stacking DOFF's in order to reduce cooldowns down to the global.
Limiting the stacking somehow would probably be for the best.
The thing that made Aux to battery OP was the removal of the shared cooldown with Emergency power to X - so you can now have 2x the amount of boff abilities AND get all the benefits of stacking Damage control doffs and a warp core doffs allowing players to have MAX power in 3 subsystems ALL the time - I mean max power to all subsystems- all the time?? a few years ago if you suggested allowing this to the devs they would say that would be game breaking!!
I get that they did this to make the 1 tactical boff station and 2/3 tac console slot crusiers more effective - but I don't think it was ever intended for a 5 tac console type ship with a Cmdr and Ltc level Tactical boff set-up.
Again - if you said a few years ago that a ship would have 5 tac consoles - a tactical cmdr boff station and be able to spame 2x Aux to battery - they would say "get outta here"
So where did things go so off the rails? And now that 1/2 the game is using these set-ups they are too afraid to pull the plug?
I believe that if cryptic wanted to cut down a Mayor influence in power creep, that most people don't know about, or have heard of... is them Accolades...
Those accolades are not just to brag... or to earn titles, if you look closely.. most of them grant passive abilities.. like +res to Dis to Pha, AP, Pla, etc etc... Bonus ACC, CRT+H...
look at a fresh level 50 toon, with not many accolades... now look at a level 50 4 yer vet.. with almost 10K accolade points... there is a BIG gap from all that bonus passive abilities...
It is not only DOff system affecting the power creep... I do not need to see DOffs be more limited to having 5 active at once... plus you can only have 3 max active of 1 type of stacking... yes you can also buy the 6th Active slot from Tier 3 Spire... but look at it at the end... it is still limited to having 5 or 6 active...
You want to cut down power creep... Do a revamp on the accolades... Do something with it...
Cryptic claimed they wanted to stop power creep by "changing" the rep system - but they have so far missed one major area - OP doffs and OP traits.
There is ZERO reason that some doffs and some traits should stack and others don't.
Cryptic - please make doffs and traits equal across the board - only 1 of each type allowed at one time. It's only fair to all the other types of traits and doffs that are not stackable.
This would be a big commitment to ending power creep.
Oh and PS - could you put Aux To Battery back on a shared cooldown with Emergency power to X?
Thanks.
Edit:
One way to start would be an diminishing return on more than 1 of the same type. A 50% reduction on each - so the 2nd gives just 50% bonus of the 1st and the 3rd gives 25% of the first.
As one poster suggested - one way to make it more fair would be allow ALL doffs to stack to 3 - but that would make some already super OP doffs - like super dupper OP stacked.
Need a tissue?
Get over it. If people use their heads to get an advantage, so what?
Oh and PS - could you put Aux To Battery back on a shared cooldown with Emergency power to X?
why you want to change this again. I use aux2bat on my fleet dhelan, and i'm not an uber killer; aux2bat has also disadvantages. I use it also on my cruisers; and it is important for a cruiser, because a cruiser is not a dps monster.
Hmm.... I say cap at two stacks full, or three with diminishing returns. And have each Doff type looked at and adjust them so that they are all roughly in line with eachother at the max cap.
Comments
And I've done that, its called steam rolling STF's, and yeah its lazy, but it works.
Yet even though I have used it I would be one of the first to say it needs to be looked at, but the crazy TRIBBLE that is being spewed about this isn't even close to balancing whats not balanced, its a whine fest that isn't ever going to be agreed on.
The solution is so simple, yet its got this dramatic over complicated following that must have their way.
That being said, and going back to saying I would be the first to ask for a change, at this point seeing all this crying and whine and cheese fest I hope they don't fix it. You can't beat your drum about traits being the problem then scream your solution only made it worse and again scream this will fix it when its a larger problem, that has a simple easy fix.
I updated my post a bit - to include one of the real problems - too much systems power.
7 beams, one cutting, power doesn't drop below 110 in weapons, ever, that's not just a2b though, that's build, consoles, core.
Right - mine was the lowest number - but does that include the Marion doff - over powered - The Warp Core doff - Over powered - 3 Over powered Damage control engineers stacked? Add in an Attack patter doff?
Perhaps stack up some Inspirational leader traits? Over power at stacked to 3.
Of course in this case we are not talking about an Aux to Battery build - that is another matter all together.
That's at the route of quite a few problems, imho. It used to be a balancing effect - heck, even a reason that Cryptic nerfed the Eng consoles; cause they saw the problem with too much Subsystem Power. Then what did they turn around and do? Lol...folks oozing power...meh.
That is with a2b, that's how my a2b runs, its not just a2b, its consoles, core, build.
How do people generate insane numbers with a2b, ^
with the correct consoles, the elite cores, and the correct build, it is a monster, and that's the problem, anyone wanting to fix it has to look at it as a whole, not just one thing. They tried that with traits, and it made the problem worse than it was before.
I can do more damage and survive longer now with this build than before the traits were nerfed, that's why I'm saying most of this dramatic TRIBBLE people are spewing isn't going to change anything.
Its a simple change, cooldowns, change the way A2b affects cooldowns, don't take it away, just change it, cause the problem is a2b, faw, rapid fire, hell anything that runs off of a2b. Let a2b keep the cooldown reduction, just give that very reduction a cooldown of its own. can only proc every 20 seconds.
Simple fix, still works, still gives power, still gives power every time you use it, cool down reduction is on a timer.
Ok so now your quoting cannon, so ok lets look at this from the scene to which you are referring. The Enterprise has a minimum of 12 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo tubes (information taken from Memory alpha site) So thats at least 17 weapon slots we're looking at not just the 8 we currently have, And the point at which each beam leaves the ship is actually the emitter array so it is possible that multiple emitter arrays can be fed from a single source or a single emitter could draw power from multiple sources as referenced when Picard suggests targeting all their phasers into a concentrated pattern.
And forgive me for saying but when he gives the fire all phasers orders I'm counting a lot more than twelve beams firing, from bow to stern. And the most logical reason for only firing one array at a time would be to conserve weapons power until they have a positive target lock. If you watch the scene from "Yesterdays Enterprise". The ship fires multiple shots in a short space of time eventually culminating in what could be considered a beam overload when the first K'vort class cruiser is destroyed.
And in all fairness I dont understand what your beef is with FAW anyway, there are buff's such as transfer shield strength, and emergency power to shields that provide a damage resistance and when combined with tactical team should pretty much counter the effects of FAW or if your a science hit them with the Subnucleonic beam that will pretty much TRIBBLE up any powers your opponent is running and provide you with some breathing room. Then there's powers such as reverse shield polarity and the metaphasic shield set bonus which convert incoming energy weapons fire into shield power. Most things in game can be beaten its just a case of thinking outside the box and turning away from the cookie cutter builds that everyone seems to believe that must be used.
I've tanked a 28k scimitar to a stalemate. But the same ships were then reduced to wreckage because some bright spark in our fleet watched what was happening went away and came back with a build that neutralized the key features of both ships.
Its not far off that anyway is it?
There's a big difference between how it works for many, doesn't work for some, and it being zero.
At zero, you cannot activate any aux based abilities. At one, you can still activate the ability.
Some folks end up with 4-5 Aux, some with 14-15 Aux, some don't even notice a drop in Aux because it's not consistent...
Some folks get 0 Aux if they boost Aux during a cycle, some folks don't get it...again, it's not consistent.
Dropping Aux to zero would be consistent...and...it would prevent the use of any Aux based abilities/consoles/etc.
The "simple" fix that many many players that know the games systems almost as well as the Devs - have said to put BACK - Aux To Battery on a shared cooldown with Emergency Power to X
Putting Aux To Battery back on the shared cooldown would nerf a significant amount of the power creep- literally the massive sub-systems power creep.
Doing this would remove the need to "nerf" a lot of the doff and trait stacking problem - but the problem of too much systems power needs to be addressed - FAW was not as OP in the past when most players weapons power was properly drained down to the 50-60 range while firing 7+ beam arrarys.
The drain aspect really didn't change - sure, it's another inconsistent thing that doesn't work the same for everybody...but that part didn't really change. You could still overcap Weapon Power out the wahzoo - but that power had to come from somewhere. You gave up something for that overcap - thus...it was balanced. With no longer really having to give anything up because of oozing power - tada...it is no longer balanced.
That's where a bunch of the issues, imho, have come about. There were all these various balancing side-effects which brought about the balance, but with so much stuff added - those balancing bits aren't there anymore - and - balance is long gone...
Yes I agree - it is an across the board sub-system power creep. As I said before many people can get insane weapons power AND also have full (or almost full) power in Shields and engines - that is stupid. You should be a glass cannon or a tank - when they made players become both - it ruined the balance and made the game faceroll easy.
The problem then comes back to the class issue and Escorts online - the game changed so that tanks and healers are useless unless they are damage dealers as well
But I expect little changes as Al Rivera has said he prefers not to nerf things. But without much harder content or some nerfs - I can't see their long-term player retention numbers staying too high.
Like more trait stacking and more OP doffs?
Again there is this weird setup: some stuff stacks and some does not.
For example :
•Beams ◦On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
•Cannons ◦On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
•Projectiles ◦Your Torpedoes and Mines penetrate an extra 10% of your target’s shields
Beams - which are totally OP due to 3 x Tech doff stacking/FAW/AtB boats get a trait that boost beam damage some more and can stack,
same for cannons - because heck we all know escorts need another 3+ turn and 3+ Inertia so they are completely immune to most attacks - right?
But - the trait which gives a tiny buff to Torpedo effectiveness - Can't stack? What's the logic - torps have not beam buffed in years outside of 1 or 2 special rep torps - but beams/energy weapons need to be made more powerful?
Granted the beam trait seems kind of weak by itself - but running the numbers with a 5 tac console BFAW scimitar might make it OP or not?
The 3 stacking cannon trait is not OP? Kind of looks OP at 3 stacks.
But the torp trait at 10% bleedthrough is OP I guess so it can't stack - right?
I don't get the inconsistency:(
This whole doff stacking/ OP doffs/ OP traits/ stacking traits - is totally not consistent at all
When will the devs do a balance pass for some consistency across the game?
P.S. - Hawk - you talked in another thread about wanting to nerf/fix/adjust - etc etc - Aux to battery - why don't you just start by making all doffs/traits that stack have diminishing returns?
This is more about game balance and consistency then "nerfing" - there just seems to be no consistency across the games new traits/doffs/mechanics.
Like the new Beam and Cannon traits stacking? Why?
Why do escorts using cannons need an extra +3 turn and +3 Inertia?
What's the logic to letting those stack?
Limiting the stacking somehow would probably be for the best.
The thing that made Aux to battery OP was the removal of the shared cooldown with Emergency power to X - so you can now have 2x the amount of boff abilities AND get all the benefits of stacking Damage control doffs and a warp core doffs allowing players to have MAX power in 3 subsystems ALL the time - I mean max power to all subsystems- all the time?? a few years ago if you suggested allowing this to the devs they would say that would be game breaking!!
I get that they did this to make the 1 tactical boff station and 2/3 tac console slot crusiers more effective - but I don't think it was ever intended for a 5 tac console type ship with a Cmdr and Ltc level Tactical boff set-up.
Again - if you said a few years ago that a ship would have 5 tac consoles - a tactical cmdr boff station and be able to spame 2x Aux to battery - they would say "get outta here"
So where did things go so off the rails? And now that 1/2 the game is using these set-ups they are too afraid to pull the plug?
Those accolades are not just to brag... or to earn titles, if you look closely.. most of them grant passive abilities.. like +res to Dis to Pha, AP, Pla, etc etc... Bonus ACC, CRT+H...
look at a fresh level 50 toon, with not many accolades... now look at a level 50 4 yer vet.. with almost 10K accolade points... there is a BIG gap from all that bonus passive abilities...
It is not only DOff system affecting the power creep... I do not need to see DOffs be more limited to having 5 active at once... plus you can only have 3 max active of 1 type of stacking... yes you can also buy the 6th Active slot from Tier 3 Spire... but look at it at the end... it is still limited to having 5 or 6 active...
You want to cut down power creep... Do a revamp on the accolades... Do something with it...
EDIT: I read your post the wrong way... continue on..
Need a tissue?
Get over it. If people use their heads to get an advantage, so what?
why you want to change this again. I use aux2bat on my fleet dhelan, and i'm not an uber killer; aux2bat has also disadvantages. I use it also on my cruisers; and it is important for a cruiser, because a cruiser is not a dps monster.
OP ships in my opnion are a real problem.