The problem is that Doff stacking creates anomalies in the game that were NEVER intended to begin with.
It completely upsets the fundamental game balance.
We have escorts tanking like a boss, being able to soak up damage like a light cruiser and deal out epic amounts of damage, rather than being the glass cannons they were intended to be.
Aux2Bat alone creates so many anomalies its not even funny, and should honestly never have happened.
I mean does anyone even at all use the Photonic Officer powers to reduce cooldowns anymore? :rolleyes:
That bein said, they should really carefully consider what kind of doffs/traits they will launch in 9.5 w/ crafting system. Hope we wont get more OP s***t.
We will for sure...
"....and even new abilities for crafted gear that are not found in dropped loot. " - D'Angelos blog
I don't know crafting needs the overhaul I guess.... if I was a betting man, and I guess I am.
Expect to see these mods.
[radius] - They just put the tech in for bio mines... so I would think crafted versions of every type with this mod... Perhaps even on a few of the torpedos.
[arc] - People have been asking for Dual Cannons with wider arcs for a long time... so I would bet good EC there will be DC with an arc mod on them. (perhaps even single cannons) Could see this mod ending up on torps as well.
Those ones I think are almost 100% sure bets....
Ones that are longer bets...
[MES] - Increased MES value for mines.
[Rapid] - We know the tech is in game on the tempast gun... I could see a class of turret that have built in Rapid fire 1. (That was over ridden by player activated higher copies)
Does that require eliminating all stacking traits/doffs/powers? No.
"More is more", seems to be the devs motto (even when "nerfing" rep traits).
So balance, if it ever comes, will be through more boff traits/doff actives/powers.
Anyway, some single doffs are far stronger than others. The A2D doff would be grossly overpowered in this new world. Really, all doff active powers would have to be reworked. As in one conn officer would be all you need to run a single TT at global (again, like the rep "nerf")
Mods may as well delete this thread, since what is suggested will never even remotely come to pass.
The devs deal with stacking on a case by case basis, I think the smart response to that is to list the areas that are problematic and those which are fine, and to some extent quantify the magnitude of the problem. Anyone claiming that there is a problem should be able to say what it is.
Does that require eliminating all stacking traits/doffs/powers? No.
"More is more", seems to be the devs motto (even when "nerfing" rep traits).
So balance, if it ever comes, will be through more boff traits/doff actives/powers.
Anyway, some single doffs are far stronger than others. The A2D doff would be grossly overpowered in this new world. Really, all doff active powers would have to be reworked. As in one conn officer would be all you need to run a single TT at global (again, like the rep "nerf")
Mods may as well delete this thread, since what is suggested will never even remotely come to pass.
Well that's a great idea - nuke the thread because the devs don't care/can't do anything. Yes that would work well. Boy the forums would be an empty place if we did that to all threads which might go no-where.
Player traits should always 100% stack with the traits of your bridge crew but you should only get the effects of 1 bridge crew.
Players play a race for the racial bonuses you get and that should not limit you from getting a stacking bonus from your bridge crew.
If you play a Lib Borg you get the efficiency racial trait, that should 100% stack with a Bridge Officer who also has Efficiency.
If you play a romulan, your Romulan Operative should 100% stack with your Bridge Officer who has Superior Romulan Operative.
You just need to make the limit once. So having 2 Bridge Officers with Superior Romulan or regular or basic Romulan Operative would not stack... just your player trait and the highest version of your Bridge Officer trait.
That way you can get as diversify bridge crew... 1 Human, 1 Reman, 1 Romulan, 1 Nausicaan & 1 with Efficiency.
Also while they are limitng stacking of Bridge Officer Traits and Duty Officers... they need to bar stacking of consoles on ships. You can have 1 dmg type console and 1 cannon or beam console (or both)... then you can do 1 for generic torpedo and 1 dmg specific torpedo consoles.
Fairly simple - all doffs/traits should stack to 3 or none should. And if they all do - perhaps add in a diminishing return to balance things out.
You know the game used to have balance(somewhat) and diminishing returns on most things?
Maybe with some changes most players would "learn to Play" rather than relying on doff and trait crutches so they can smash the spacebar!
PS -I can and have built a 30K dps Scimitar - it's not too hard with enough funds - from there it's all about the dance.
There are some doffing changes coming with S9.5 - I doubt they will include a balance pass - sadly:(
Yeah I can give the benefit that you're actually trying to invoke a movement that could potentially help the game. At the same time I'm resistant to changing things too drastically for fear of unanticipated consequences. It would be one thing if builds posted to Tribble were actually held there and then acted upon after player feedback. However, to me, it seems like the only thing Tribble does now is give the ppl who care a sneak peak at upcoming content.
At the same time, I too have put a lot of real life money into the game to own the things I've collected over the years. The last thing I want to see happen is all that go down the tubes just because somewhere, someone had the bright idea to switch the tracks over when the bridge ahead has already been blown to bits.
Exactly, some of us worked for weeks to get this stuff.
This is not, nor is it ever, a legitimate reason to not take measures to balance the game.
They shouldn't take your DOffs away from you, nor anything else - you earned them. But they can and should change the implementation of those DOffs if it's in the best interest of game balance.
Not being able to use all your toys at once isn't the same as taking them away.
It really is annoying that some DOffs can and some can't stack.
Why can't I have my TBR Pull DOff stack with the -Engine Power TBR DOff? Is that really so game breaking when you compare it to the Zemok or Tech stacking?
Cryptic claimed they wanted to stop power creep by "changing" the rep system - but they have so far missed one major area - OP doffs and OP traits.
There is ZERO reason that some doffs and some traits should stack and others don't.
Cryptic - please make doffs and traits equal across the board - only 1 of each type allowed at one time. It's only fair to all the other types of traits and doffs that are not stackable.
This would be a big commitment to ending power creep.
Oh and PS - could you put Aux To Battery back on a shared cooldown with Emergency power to X?
Thanks.
One way to start would be an diminishing return on more than 1 of the same type. A 50% reduction on each - so the 2nd gives just 50% bonus of the 1st and the 3rd gives 25% of the first.
Edit - as one poster suggested - one way to make it more fair would be allow ALL doffs to stack to 3 - but I would add the diminishing returns to that as well.
good post OP
i do not agree with the shared CDs Tac light cruisers need Aux to batt cd reduction
Aux to Batt isnt the problem
Too much power is the problem
plasmonic leach / power from Aux to batt/ maco shield warp core's
these things give players way too much power and bring other things out of balence cut the
power granted by these items by 50 to 75% and were on the way to balence
As long s players have so much power balence cannot be achieved
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Not being able to use all your toys at once isn't the same as taking them away.
Yeah, tell that to most of the people that said enough is enough and left after the season nine boondoggle with traits.
Did it help at all with the problem? Nope, sure didn't.
Did it make people feel like they had spent months and months working for something that got taken away? sure did.
Did it drive people away from a game they loved, or make them really think twice about investing time and resources in this game. You bet it did.
Sorry man, but the proof is in every post that came directly after season nine hit, and it did nothing to help with the problem people are still saying will be fixed if PWE bends to their next want or complaint.
I'm sorry but you people can't have it both ways. If you want doff stacking to be removed then its got to apply to everyone. Because the argument can me made that A2B is overpowered. You shout nerf then demand that the aux2bat doffs are ring fenced from this change. Why should you be allowed to keep this when I'm being forced into making my Jem dread torp boat no viable. Or make my ground focused tag officer less viable because I can't equip the extra two doffs that I found work for it. Maybe you should try and get the space and ground conflicts between active doffs resolved first!
Why is Aux2Bat acceptable, but not stacking Gravimetric Doffs to multi-Well/Rift every cast?
Because stacking them would make Grav well so insane it's not Funny. Yes A2B builds are probably the most broken aspect of the Doff stacking atm, but they'd pale in comparison to what 3 purple grav well doffs would allow. A full proc of all 4 aftershocks, though rare can be guaranteed to wipe out almost any non-boss ship and severally damage even bosses in a single use. Getting that reliably would be just utterly broken as all hell in a way even A2B doesn't manage.
Does one of your characters really have a ship named AnusTart?
Is that like a breath mint for your tar hole?
Sorry for the distraction OP, but this one was just too much for me.
The proper way to look at that ship name is A Nu Start.
It's a reference to Arrested Development. One of the characters, Tobias (David Cross), decided he needed a new start and got a vanity plate with this phrase spelled out.
It's a similar bit to Tobias' business card, which gave his profession as Analrapist.
I also have other ships making references to the show.
Well that's a great idea - nuke the thread because the devs don't care/can't do anything. Yes that would work well. Boy the forums would be an empty place if we did that to all threads which might go no-where.
I think we'd agree on several things that shouldn't stack, but what you suggested in your op is going way too far. It's kind of like threads asking for tier 5 Connies. Both requests are simply not possible. One due to licencing and the other because they'd be destroying a massive source of profit.
Cryptic claimed they wanted to stop power creep by "changing" the rep system - but they have so far missed one major area - OP doffs and OP traits.
There is ZERO reason that some doffs and some traits should stack and others don't.
Cryptic - please make doffs and traits equal across the board - only 1 of each type allowed at one time. It's only fair to all the other types of traits and doffs that are not stackable.
This would be a big commitment to ending power creep.
Oh and PS - could you put Aux To Battery back on a shared cooldown with Emergency power to X?
Thanks.
One way to start would be an diminishing return on more than 1 of the same type. A 50% reduction on each - so the 2nd gives just 50% bonus of the 1st and the 3rd gives 25% of the first.
Edit - as one poster suggested - one way to make it more fair would be allow ALL doffs to stack to 3 - but I would add the diminishing returns to that as well.
There are just 2 doffs that need adjusting(debuff cleansing and technicians) Leave the rest alone.
I think we'd agree on several things that shouldn't stack, but what you suggested in your op is going way too far. It's kind of like threads asking for tier 5 Connies. Both requests are simply not possible. One due to licencing and the other because they'd be destroying a massive source of profit.
I am afraid that you might be right - they are much more interested in selling power creep then game balance.
I had hoped they would not keep dumbing down this game so that a 8 year old with a Ipad could "spacebar" their way to win - but at this rate I don't know:(
Cryptic claimed they wanted to stop power creep by "changing" the rep system - but they have so far missed one major area - OP doffs and OP traits.
Two topics that are unrelated. Also the rep system changes were done to deal with a system issue that the development team saw would occur in terms of continued addition of reputation powers/traits. Sure they said it was meant as a move to stop power creep. But it's been mangled by the players who jumped all over that, as the power creep the changes were meant to stop, were defiinitely stopped ... the theoretical creep of infinite scaling addition of trait bonuses with the addition of future reputations.
In short, the goal wasn't to deal with anything related to the current state of the game.
So it's pretty obvious the development team's plans for the reputation system wasn't related at all to other issues, like DOFF abilities.
They may indeed have a whole initiative planned on dealing with that issue. But it's separate. I'd wait and see. There's been comments made by various devs that they are testing ideas on stuff like this.
Just you know, understand the rep traits changes and what is being discussed here, are very separate.
There is ZERO reason that some doffs and some traits should stack and others don't.
There's a rather sensible reason why this has happened. The folks who created/tested/implemented the DOFF system haven't stuck with it. There's been no follow through and no caretaking for the system. So it lacks that organizational flow.
Be great if there was someone who could be set up as a caretaker for that system. And ALL older systems. They don't seem to have really done much to keep consistency with their systems as they age in ALL of their games (Champions has some of the same general issues).
There's just not been a big picture or forest-through-the-trees type of person to keep a handle on things like this.
If you're sux at pvping, stop blaming others for your failures and whining it on the forum. The majority of STO don't pvp. We always got nerfed because of sucky pvper like yourself coming to the forum and whining just because you lost in pvp. If you don't have the means or skills to win in pvp, don't pvp.
Sucky pvpers always come to forum and whine like pussies after get their butt wiped by a good pvper. That's why there is no real pvp left in STO. Who would pvp since losers went to forum and complained. I've been playing from season 1 and always seen the same SSDD - same **** different day.
I do admit that I am both a F2P player, and A2B user. I didn't have the extra money to invest into my builds, due to the fact that poor health keeps me from making real world money. Therefore, I had to earn everything I needed for my builds to work. And, I also admit that the A2B build is overpowered.
I know that this discussion is about DOFFs in general. However, A2B keeps coming up, so I will address (or refer to) that, while talking about the DOFFs.
First, what is it that makes the A2B build so powerful? Is it the DOFFs, or the FAW skill? Same with any other DOFFs that are said to be overpowered, or give an "unfair" advantage. Is it the DOFF themselves, or the skills they are used with?
The problem is a little of both. For example, every time I use my A2B skill, my FAW reduces in cool down. The FAW skill is what is really doing the damage. The DOFFs are only allowing me to use the skill once every 15 seconds without having the same skill on another tactical BOFF.
If it is reduced to only one, then it will only hurt the cruisers that can only have 2 tac skills. An Ensign, and Lt. The Scimitar, Mogh, Avenger, etch players that have Universal stations will still be almost just as powerful using FAW, because they can now have 2 FAW 3 skills. They are now using the skill just as much as the did before, when they had three DOFFS that let them do the same thing.
Granted, there might be a slight difference, however it will not make a huge one. I took my Scimitar, changed the universal station so that I could double my tac skills. Then, I used only one doff for A2B, and only one skill of A2B1. Guess what, I killed things almost as fast as before. I just didn't have as many heals.
So, now what? Will it be nerfed so that I can only add one of each skill to my ships? That would be just sad.
Now, lets look at the skill FAW itself. What is it? Basically it is cannon rapid fire, and cannon scatter volley rolled into one skill for beams. That is where A2B gets its power from. Now, let's pretend that they separate those features.
Let's pretend that we now have two beam skills. Beam Fire at Will (which will hit multiple targets at the same speed the beams normally fire at), and there is Beam Rapid Fire (which will hit a single target with rapid firing beams).
Now we have just put beams on a slightly more even playing field as cannons. With the Beam Rapid Fire, we will get the same results as you would if there was one target with the FAW we now have. For some ships and builds, that is still better than cannons. However, it makes the ability to hit more than one target just like the cannon scatter fire.
What does do? It will help. The next step is to either slightly reduce the effect of the DOFFs, or make it where they have a chance to activate on the use of A2B, instead of all the time.
Now, the Beam Rapid Fire is more even with cannons.
This can be done with other BOFF skills. Let them all stack up to three. Just tweak the skills, and the DOFFs. If you just focus on one thing that you see as the problem, you still leave part of it there.
A DOFF that will cause more GWs to activate. Sure, let it stack up to three, but reduce the strength of the 1st GW, and each one after is weakened more and more.
DOFFs that reduce the cool down of torps. Let us stack three of them. Why not, there is only a chance of them activating. However, give them an accuracy debuff if the DOFFs activate.
There are things that can be done besides just focusing on one. This will also allow players to keep the things they worked, or paid for. For A2B, you will still need three DOFFs to get the full effect, because there can be a 20% chance on all of them. This means there is a chance all three can activate each time.
I know that this might not be something that everyone will like. However, in all fairness, there are some things that are just OP in the game. I like A2B, and still use it. However, I admit that it is over powered like it is. Every time I hit A2B, my DOFFs activate. Even in my cruisers that can only have two tac skills, I do far more damage than I should.
Though it is everything added together that gives the damage output, I still see the need for a measure of balance.
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If you're sux at pvping, stop blaming others for your failures and whining it on the forum. The majority of STO don't pvp. We always got nerfed because of sucky pvper like yourself coming to the forum and whining just because you lost in pvp. If you don't have the means or skills to win in pvp, don't pvp.
Sucky pvpers always come to forum and whine like pussies after get their butt wiped by a good pvper. That's why there is no real pvp left in STO. Who would pvp since losers went to forum and complained. I've been playing from season 1 and always seen the same SSDD - same **** different day.
Man-up and face your suckness!!
Thanks for letting me know how to fix myself. I rarely PvP anymore and was always just "average" - not good but not bad either. But you have not addressed to core problem of some OP doffs and OP traits that are only made more unbalanced due to being allowed to stack. Doff and trait stacking leads to a bad game imbalance.
How would you address the games power creep? Harder content? Sure that would be good - but the devs don't want to do it because people rarely play it.
Most people who have a problem with addressing power creep are mad because they paid to be more powerful and blow through content faster. But allowing players to faceroll through content faster and faster = a games decline.
I do admit that I am both a F2P player, and A2B user. I didn't have the extra money to invest into my builds, due to the fact that poor health keeps me from making real world money. Therefore, I had to earn everything I needed for my builds to work. And, I also admit that the A2B build is overpowered.
I know that this discussion is about DOFFs in general. However, A2B keeps coming up, so I will address (or refer to) that, while talking about the DOFFs.
First, what is it that makes the A2B build so powerful? Is it the DOFFs, or the FAW skill? Same with any other DOFFs that are said to be overpowered, or give an "unfair" advantage. Is it the DOFF themselves, or the skills they are used with?
The problem is a little of both. For example, every time I use my A2B skill, my FAW reduces in cool down. The FAW skill is what is really doing the damage. The DOFFs are only allowing me to use the skill once every 15 seconds without having the same skill on another tactical BOFF.
If it is reduced to only one, then it will only hurt the cruisers that can only have 2 tac skills. An Ensign, and Lt. The Scimitar, Mogh, Avenger, etch players that have Universal stations will still be almost just as powerful using FAW, because they can now have 2 FAW 3 skills. They are now using the skill just as much as the did before, when they had three DOFFS that let them do the same thing.
Granted, there might be a slight difference, however it will not make a huge one. I took my Scimitar, changed the universal station so that I could double my tac skills. Then, I used only one doff for A2B, and only one skill of A2B1. Guess what, I killed things almost as fast as before. I just didn't have as many heals.
So, now what? Will it be nerfed so that I can only add one of each skill to my ships? That would be just sad.
Now, lets look at the skill FAW itself. What is it? Basically it is cannon rapid fire, and cannon scatter volley rolled into one skill for beams. That is where A2B gets its power from. Now, let's pretend that they separate those features.
Let's pretend that we now have two beam skills. Beam Fire at Will (which will hit multiple targets at the same speed the beams normally fire at), and there is Beam Rapid Fire (which will hit a single target with rapid firing beams).
Now we have just put beams on a slightly more even playing field as cannons. With the Beam Rapid Fire, we will get the same results as you would if there was one target with the FAW we now have. For some ships and builds, that is still better than cannons. However, it makes the ability to hit more than one target just like the cannon scatter fire.
What does do? It will help. The next step is to either slightly reduce the effect of the DOFFs, or make it where they have a chance to activate on the use of A2B, instead of all the time.
Now, the Beam Rapid Fire is more even with cannons.
This can be done with other BOFF skills. Let them all stack up to three. Just tweak the skills, and the DOFFs. If you just focus on one thing that you see as the problem, you still leave part of it there.
A DOFF that will cause more GWs to activate. Sure, let it stack up to three, but reduce the strength of the 1st GW, and each one after is weakened more and more.
DOFFs that reduce the cool down of torps. Let us stack three of them. Why not, there is only a chance of them activating. However, give them an accuracy debuff if the DOFFs activate.
There are things that can be done besides just focusing on one. This will also allow players to keep the things they worked, or paid for. For A2B, you will still need three DOFFs to get the full effect, because there can be a 20% chance on all of them. This means there is a chance all three can activate each time.
I know that this might not be something that everyone will like. However, in all fairness, there are some things that are just OP in the game. I like A2B, and still use it. However, I admit that it is over powered like it is. Every time I hit A2B, my DOFFs activate. Even in my cruisers that can only have two tac skills, I do far more damage than I should.
Though it is everything added together that gives the damage output, I still see the need for a measure of balance.
You are 100% right - Beam fire at will is a very very broken skill and needs a complete rework. 8 beams firing on 8 arcs constantly - hitting almost all targets withing it's full 10km range - with almost zero drop off in damage power - that is majorly stupid.
There is almost no MMO's out there that allows this kind of constant AoE attack - it is very very unbalance- it should be more like canon and the ship should "cycle" slowly through each beam array or just a few "swings" at most.
There is only one time on screen that I know of where you see something close to STO's bfaw - that is the opening of the battle between Enterprise and the Scimitar. There Captain Picard orders a "Full phaser spread" - for the rest of the battle almost all beam shots are cycled through the various arrays.
All other instances on screen that I know of are mostly just one array firing at a time - while they use the same array - or "cycle" through the arrays.
The last few changes to Bfaw did very very little to reduce it's OP effectiveness. A slightly longer CD and slightly less uptime than other attacks.
You are 100% right - Beam fire at will is a very very broken skill and needs a complete rework. 8 beams firing on 8 arcs constantly - hitting almost all targets withing it's full 10km range - with almost zero drop off in damage power - that is majorly stupid.
There is almost no MMO's out there that allows this kind of constant AoE attack - it is very very unbalance- it should be more like canon and the ship should "cycle" slowly through each beam array or just a few "swings" at most.
There is only one time on screen that I know of where you see something close to STO's bfaw - that is the opening of the battle between Enterprise and the Scimitar. There Captain Picard orders a "Full phaser spread" - for the rest of the battle almost all beam shots are cycled through the various arrays.
All other instances on screen that I know of are mostly just one array firing at a time - while they use the same array - or "cycle" through the arrays.
The last few changes to Bfaw did very very little to reduce it's OP effectiveness. A slightly longer CD and slightly less uptime than other attacks.
Something even easier to do in this instance, either a complete power drain after the bfaw from weapons, or a longer cool down.
Its simple, its easy, and if you watch that scene between the ent-e and scimmie that took a lot of power from the ent-e when Picard called for it, they had almost NO power when he called for ramming speed.
So just tweak the power, or make it a longer cool down IF that's what PWE wants to do, however I don't see that happening at present.
Something even easier to do in this instance, either a complete power drain after the bfaw from weapons, or a longer cool down.
Its simple, its easy, and if you watch that scene between the ent-e and scimmie that took a lot of power from the ent-e when Picard called for it, they had almost NO power when he called for ramming speed.
So just tweak the power, or make it a longer cool down IF that's what PWE wants to do, however I don't see that happening at present.
I would say more damage WITH a longer cool down, just to make it into a strategic asset rather then an I win button. I think FAW definitely gives a2b a bad name. Its why I don't use it. I think it is a super lazy design.
I would say more damage WITH a longer cool down, just to make it into a strategic asset rather then an I win button. I think FAW definitely gives a2b a bad name. Its why I don't use it. I think it is a super lazy design.
It is lazy and OP - and that is why half the builds in PvE are using it. It's one of the reasons that a team was able to complete Infected space "Elite" in only 63 seconds.
One of the dumpest mechanics in the game.
Set all weapons to fire - hit Fire at will and Spacebar to win!!
The biggest problem that make Faw OP - is the ability to boost your weapons power to stupid levels. With OP warp core engineers + 3 Damage control engineers - a person can get their effective weapons power to about 180 -and have high power in shields and engines at the same time -
So this means that firing 8 beams - which used to take a players power down to say 50-60 will stay above 90 almost all the time while fire 8 beams!! Add in a Marion doff and DEM3 and you get a tactical captain putting out 8 beams with max dmg almost all the time.
Comments
It completely upsets the fundamental game balance.
We have escorts tanking like a boss, being able to soak up damage like a light cruiser and deal out epic amounts of damage, rather than being the glass cannons they were intended to be.
Aux2Bat alone creates so many anomalies its not even funny, and should honestly never have happened.
I mean does anyone even at all use the Photonic Officer powers to reduce cooldowns anymore? :rolleyes:
We will for sure...
"....and even new abilities for crafted gear that are not found in dropped loot. " - D'Angelos blog
I don't know crafting needs the overhaul I guess.... if I was a betting man, and I guess I am.
Expect to see these mods.
[radius] - They just put the tech in for bio mines... so I would think crafted versions of every type with this mod... Perhaps even on a few of the torpedos.
[arc] - People have been asking for Dual Cannons with wider arcs for a long time... so I would bet good EC there will be DC with an arc mod on them. (perhaps even single cannons) Could see this mod ending up on torps as well.
Those ones I think are almost 100% sure bets....
Ones that are longer bets...
[MES] - Increased MES value for mines.
[Rapid] - We know the tech is in game on the tempast gun... I could see a class of turret that have built in Rapid fire 1. (That was over ridden by player activated higher copies)
Does that require eliminating all stacking traits/doffs/powers? No.
"More is more", seems to be the devs motto (even when "nerfing" rep traits).
So balance, if it ever comes, will be through more boff traits/doff actives/powers.
Anyway, some single doffs are far stronger than others. The A2D doff would be grossly overpowered in this new world. Really, all doff active powers would have to be reworked. As in one conn officer would be all you need to run a single TT at global (again, like the rep "nerf")
Mods may as well delete this thread, since what is suggested will never even remotely come to pass.
Well that's a great idea - nuke the thread because the devs don't care/can't do anything. Yes that would work well. Boy the forums would be an empty place if we did that to all threads which might go no-where.
Players play a race for the racial bonuses you get and that should not limit you from getting a stacking bonus from your bridge crew.
If you play a Lib Borg you get the efficiency racial trait, that should 100% stack with a Bridge Officer who also has Efficiency.
If you play a romulan, your Romulan Operative should 100% stack with your Bridge Officer who has Superior Romulan Operative.
You just need to make the limit once. So having 2 Bridge Officers with Superior Romulan or regular or basic Romulan Operative would not stack... just your player trait and the highest version of your Bridge Officer trait.
That way you can get as diversify bridge crew... 1 Human, 1 Reman, 1 Romulan, 1 Nausicaan & 1 with Efficiency.
Also while they are limitng stacking of Bridge Officer Traits and Duty Officers... they need to bar stacking of consoles on ships. You can have 1 dmg type console and 1 cannon or beam console (or both)... then you can do 1 for generic torpedo and 1 dmg specific torpedo consoles.
Yeah I can give the benefit that you're actually trying to invoke a movement that could potentially help the game. At the same time I'm resistant to changing things too drastically for fear of unanticipated consequences. It would be one thing if builds posted to Tribble were actually held there and then acted upon after player feedback. However, to me, it seems like the only thing Tribble does now is give the ppl who care a sneak peak at upcoming content.
At the same time, I too have put a lot of real life money into the game to own the things I've collected over the years. The last thing I want to see happen is all that go down the tubes just because somewhere, someone had the bright idea to switch the tracks over when the bridge ahead has already been blown to bits.
This is not, nor is it ever, a legitimate reason to not take measures to balance the game.
They shouldn't take your DOffs away from you, nor anything else - you earned them. But they can and should change the implementation of those DOffs if it's in the best interest of game balance.
Not being able to use all your toys at once isn't the same as taking them away.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Does one of your characters really have a ship named AnusTart?
Is that like a breath mint for your tar hole?
Sorry for the distraction OP, but this one was just too much for me.
Why can't I have my TBR Pull DOff stack with the -Engine Power TBR DOff? Is that really so game breaking when you compare it to the Zemok or Tech stacking?
good post OP
i do not agree with the shared CDs Tac light cruisers need Aux to batt cd reduction
Aux to Batt isnt the problem
Too much power is the problem
plasmonic leach / power from Aux to batt/ maco shield warp core's
these things give players way too much power and bring other things out of balence cut the
power granted by these items by 50 to 75% and were on the way to balence
As long s players have so much power balence cannot be achieved
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Agreed. Power is no longer scarce for most players.
Yeah, tell that to most of the people that said enough is enough and left after the season nine boondoggle with traits.
Did it help at all with the problem? Nope, sure didn't.
Did it make people feel like they had spent months and months working for something that got taken away? sure did.
Did it drive people away from a game they loved, or make them really think twice about investing time and resources in this game. You bet it did.
Sorry man, but the proof is in every post that came directly after season nine hit, and it did nothing to help with the problem people are still saying will be fixed if PWE bends to their next want or complaint.
I'm sorry but you people can't have it both ways. If you want doff stacking to be removed then its got to apply to everyone. Because the argument can me made that A2B is overpowered. You shout nerf then demand that the aux2bat doffs are ring fenced from this change. Why should you be allowed to keep this when I'm being forced into making my Jem dread torp boat no viable. Or make my ground focused tag officer less viable because I can't equip the extra two doffs that I found work for it. Maybe you should try and get the space and ground conflicts between active doffs resolved first!
Because stacking them would make Grav well so insane it's not Funny. Yes A2B builds are probably the most broken aspect of the Doff stacking atm, but they'd pale in comparison to what 3 purple grav well doffs would allow. A full proc of all 4 aftershocks, though rare can be guaranteed to wipe out almost any non-boss ship and severally damage even bosses in a single use. Getting that reliably would be just utterly broken as all hell in a way even A2B doesn't manage.
The proper way to look at that ship name is A Nu Start.
It's a reference to Arrested Development. One of the characters, Tobias (David Cross), decided he needed a new start and got a vanity plate with this phrase spelled out.
It's a similar bit to Tobias' business card, which gave his profession as Analrapist.
I also have other ships making references to the show.
I think we'd agree on several things that shouldn't stack, but what you suggested in your op is going way too far. It's kind of like threads asking for tier 5 Connies. Both requests are simply not possible. One due to licencing and the other because they'd be destroying a massive source of profit.
There are just 2 doffs that need adjusting(debuff cleansing and technicians) Leave the rest alone.
I am afraid that you might be right - they are much more interested in selling power creep then game balance.
I had hoped they would not keep dumbing down this game so that a 8 year old with a Ipad could "spacebar" their way to win - but at this rate I don't know:(
Two topics that are unrelated. Also the rep system changes were done to deal with a system issue that the development team saw would occur in terms of continued addition of reputation powers/traits. Sure they said it was meant as a move to stop power creep. But it's been mangled by the players who jumped all over that, as the power creep the changes were meant to stop, were defiinitely stopped ... the theoretical creep of infinite scaling addition of trait bonuses with the addition of future reputations.
In short, the goal wasn't to deal with anything related to the current state of the game.
So it's pretty obvious the development team's plans for the reputation system wasn't related at all to other issues, like DOFF abilities.
They may indeed have a whole initiative planned on dealing with that issue. But it's separate. I'd wait and see. There's been comments made by various devs that they are testing ideas on stuff like this.
Just you know, understand the rep traits changes and what is being discussed here, are very separate.
There's a rather sensible reason why this has happened. The folks who created/tested/implemented the DOFF system haven't stuck with it. There's been no follow through and no caretaking for the system. So it lacks that organizational flow.
Be great if there was someone who could be set up as a caretaker for that system. And ALL older systems. They don't seem to have really done much to keep consistency with their systems as they age in ALL of their games (Champions has some of the same general issues).
There's just not been a big picture or forest-through-the-trees type of person to keep a handle on things like this.
There should be. Definitely. But there isn't.
That said, I completely agree, especially with some of the stacking you can do.
If you're sux at pvping, stop blaming others for your failures and whining it on the forum. The majority of STO don't pvp. We always got nerfed because of sucky pvper like yourself coming to the forum and whining just because you lost in pvp. If you don't have the means or skills to win in pvp, don't pvp.
Sucky pvpers always come to forum and whine like pussies after get their butt wiped by a good pvper. That's why there is no real pvp left in STO. Who would pvp since losers went to forum and complained. I've been playing from season 1 and always seen the same SSDD - same **** different day.
Man-up and face your suckness!!
I know that this discussion is about DOFFs in general. However, A2B keeps coming up, so I will address (or refer to) that, while talking about the DOFFs.
First, what is it that makes the A2B build so powerful? Is it the DOFFs, or the FAW skill? Same with any other DOFFs that are said to be overpowered, or give an "unfair" advantage. Is it the DOFF themselves, or the skills they are used with?
The problem is a little of both. For example, every time I use my A2B skill, my FAW reduces in cool down. The FAW skill is what is really doing the damage. The DOFFs are only allowing me to use the skill once every 15 seconds without having the same skill on another tactical BOFF.
If it is reduced to only one, then it will only hurt the cruisers that can only have 2 tac skills. An Ensign, and Lt. The Scimitar, Mogh, Avenger, etch players that have Universal stations will still be almost just as powerful using FAW, because they can now have 2 FAW 3 skills. They are now using the skill just as much as the did before, when they had three DOFFS that let them do the same thing.
Granted, there might be a slight difference, however it will not make a huge one. I took my Scimitar, changed the universal station so that I could double my tac skills. Then, I used only one doff for A2B, and only one skill of A2B1. Guess what, I killed things almost as fast as before. I just didn't have as many heals.
So, now what? Will it be nerfed so that I can only add one of each skill to my ships? That would be just sad.
Now, lets look at the skill FAW itself. What is it? Basically it is cannon rapid fire, and cannon scatter volley rolled into one skill for beams. That is where A2B gets its power from. Now, let's pretend that they separate those features.
Let's pretend that we now have two beam skills. Beam Fire at Will (which will hit multiple targets at the same speed the beams normally fire at), and there is Beam Rapid Fire (which will hit a single target with rapid firing beams).
Now we have just put beams on a slightly more even playing field as cannons. With the Beam Rapid Fire, we will get the same results as you would if there was one target with the FAW we now have. For some ships and builds, that is still better than cannons. However, it makes the ability to hit more than one target just like the cannon scatter fire.
What does do? It will help. The next step is to either slightly reduce the effect of the DOFFs, or make it where they have a chance to activate on the use of A2B, instead of all the time.
Now, the Beam Rapid Fire is more even with cannons.
This can be done with other BOFF skills. Let them all stack up to three. Just tweak the skills, and the DOFFs. If you just focus on one thing that you see as the problem, you still leave part of it there.
A DOFF that will cause more GWs to activate. Sure, let it stack up to three, but reduce the strength of the 1st GW, and each one after is weakened more and more.
DOFFs that reduce the cool down of torps. Let us stack three of them. Why not, there is only a chance of them activating. However, give them an accuracy debuff if the DOFFs activate.
There are things that can be done besides just focusing on one. This will also allow players to keep the things they worked, or paid for. For A2B, you will still need three DOFFs to get the full effect, because there can be a 20% chance on all of them. This means there is a chance all three can activate each time.
I know that this might not be something that everyone will like. However, in all fairness, there are some things that are just OP in the game. I like A2B, and still use it. However, I admit that it is over powered like it is. Every time I hit A2B, my DOFFs activate. Even in my cruisers that can only have two tac skills, I do far more damage than I should.
Though it is everything added together that gives the damage output, I still see the need for a measure of balance.
Thanks for letting me know how to fix myself. I rarely PvP anymore and was always just "average" - not good but not bad either. But you have not addressed to core problem of some OP doffs and OP traits that are only made more unbalanced due to being allowed to stack. Doff and trait stacking leads to a bad game imbalance.
How would you address the games power creep? Harder content? Sure that would be good - but the devs don't want to do it because people rarely play it.
Most people who have a problem with addressing power creep are mad because they paid to be more powerful and blow through content faster. But allowing players to faceroll through content faster and faster = a games decline.
I just want to point out that FAW is already nerfed. It's the only attack power that has a 20s global cooldown. it has a maximum uptime of 50%.
All the other attack powers have a 15s global CD and, apart from BO and Target Subsystems, have an uptime of 66%.
You are 100% right - Beam fire at will is a very very broken skill and needs a complete rework. 8 beams firing on 8 arcs constantly - hitting almost all targets withing it's full 10km range - with almost zero drop off in damage power - that is majorly stupid.
There is almost no MMO's out there that allows this kind of constant AoE attack - it is very very unbalance- it should be more like canon and the ship should "cycle" slowly through each beam array or just a few "swings" at most.
There is only one time on screen that I know of where you see something close to STO's bfaw - that is the opening of the battle between Enterprise and the Scimitar. There Captain Picard orders a "Full phaser spread" - for the rest of the battle almost all beam shots are cycled through the various arrays.
All other instances on screen that I know of are mostly just one array firing at a time - while they use the same array - or "cycle" through the arrays.
The last few changes to Bfaw did very very little to reduce it's OP effectiveness. A slightly longer CD and slightly less uptime than other attacks.
Something even easier to do in this instance, either a complete power drain after the bfaw from weapons, or a longer cool down.
Its simple, its easy, and if you watch that scene between the ent-e and scimmie that took a lot of power from the ent-e when Picard called for it, they had almost NO power when he called for ramming speed.
So just tweak the power, or make it a longer cool down IF that's what PWE wants to do, however I don't see that happening at present.
I would say more damage WITH a longer cool down, just to make it into a strategic asset rather then an I win button. I think FAW definitely gives a2b a bad name. Its why I don't use it. I think it is a super lazy design.
It is lazy and OP - and that is why half the builds in PvE are using it. It's one of the reasons that a team was able to complete Infected space "Elite" in only 63 seconds.
One of the dumpest mechanics in the game.
Set all weapons to fire - hit Fire at will and Spacebar to win!!
The biggest problem that make Faw OP - is the ability to boost your weapons power to stupid levels. With OP warp core engineers + 3 Damage control engineers - a person can get their effective weapons power to about 180 -and have high power in shields and engines at the same time -
So this means that firing 8 beams - which used to take a players power down to say 50-60 will stay above 90 almost all the time while fire 8 beams!! Add in a Marion doff and DEM3 and you get a tactical captain putting out 8 beams with max dmg almost all the time.
It's stupidly broken.