I know we are so far off-topic that it's not even funny. :eek:
I understand your distaste for how Cryptic handled it. As the connection was never specified in an episode or film. However, Ron Moore - who co-wrote, The Chase - did suggest the possibility. He just chose to not formalize it in the script. This is knowledge that I'm sure the game's writer's are aware of and chose to run with it. So blame Ron for permitting himself to be quoted on the subject.
Oh I will. :mad:
That said, I don't equate Felinoid species with a Humanoid species. And since mammalian descriptions are applied to Humanoid species, I don't think applying it a Felinoid makes a great deal of sense. It may be accurate, from a Humanoid point of view, that the Felinoid displays mammalian characteristics. But isn't in and of itself a mammal. And while I'm sure there is some slash fiction out there with Caitian/Human offspring, I wouldn't have chosen to write it. Just sayin'.
They have TRIBBLE. Homeothermic. Fur. They even resemble other established mammals.
Unless you're saying that only earth produces mammals which is another can of worms.
If I were ever to a Star Trek show, I'd have a symposium of zoologists come tour the set just so I could rope them into hammering out how extraterrestrial species classification would work out if we discover Earth-similar fauna. And Flora for that matter.
Back on topic, I don't have any issue with Alien Gen offering a version of tails to design into other species. Be they Humanoid or Felinoid. Permitting the tails are original art and not copy/paste from the Caitian/Ferasan.
I totally agree, I'm rather shocked that they don't have tails and unduligrade options already. Feathers too, even if it's just for head hair.
Well honestly it doesn't actually matter that much, and is completely irrelevant to the thread anyway, but since I love explaining my POV on arbitrary character race changes, I'm going to take this opportunity to do exactly that.
So, race changes. Why not, right? There's no reason Peter Parker couldn't have been black, for instance. Why can't a black kid be awkward, have dead parents, live with his aunt, have his uncle get shot, be a shy genius turned wise-cracking troll superhero, etc? There's almost no reason.
But there is one reason - Peter Parker can't be black because he's white.
The character of Peter Parker was written and established as a young white male. Making him black all of the sudden would be ridiculous. Imagine if between seasons 6 and 7 of TNG, Riker turned into an Asian dude. Or if Data's cat was suddenly female, or an iguana (wait...). Or if the Enterprise turned into a Battlestar.
You don't just change something that already exists because there's not really a reason it couldn't be something else. It's dumb and jarring and doesn't add anything to anything.
The larger issue is that as much as JJ wanted to create his own Star Trek universe he already made a concession by physically connecting his universe to the Prime Universe. It's a temporal incursion that occurred in 2233. Period. He can't go back and retcon things that occurred before that (at least and not have people accept it and say, that makes sense). He radically altered the physiology of an entire species. I can deal with Nero, not all Romulans have forehead ridges, but JJ Caitians don't even have Feline facial features. They are pretty elves (very pretty) with some body mod scarring and a tail. The most feline feature in their faces is the fact that the lovely Cockrell twins have natural almond shaped eyes.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
They have TRIBBLE. Homeothermic. Fur. They even resemble other established mammals.
Unless you're saying that only earth produces mammals which is another can of worms.
I would say that yes, only Earth produces mammals. Mammals are a particular lineage that is characterized by mammary glands, fur and homeothermy. Mammals are identified by those characteristics, but having fur does not cause a creature to be a mammal--just the opposite, being a mammal causes a creature to have fur.
On other planets where life evolved, creatures may evolve which have fur, produce milk, and practice homeothermy. Because these things work. Some of them might even resemble Earth species, again because that form works. But unless that world had been seeded with mammals from Earth, those creatures would not be mammals. You might, however, reasonably call them mammaliforms or some such.
Meh. Why did I write all that out? Obviously all appearances of caitians, catlike or catgirl-like, are because the writers are lazy and lack imagination. Sigh.
Let's be perfectly clear here. Cryptic got it dead wrong. The First Humanoids and the Preservers are two different species. We're talking about species whose actions are KNOWN to be apart on the scale of billions of years. The First Humanoids seeded their species something like two to four billion years ago and went extinct. The Preservers were active just a little over a thousand years ago. If the First Humanoids were to have survived long enough to be the Preservers then there would be no need for the puzzle, they could just reveal themselves.
I'm not opposed to the Caitians and Ferasans being humanoid in arrangement by convergent evolution though, but I would also like to point out that like most of the other species we call Humanoid and the First Humanoids themselves, Caitians are mammals.
Well, yes and no. Yes, the writers of the TV show apparently intended them to be different. But... If they spent most of their time in stasis(like in STO) they could be the same race. The TNG ep had no real proof they were extinct.
Well, yes and no. Yes, the writers of the TV show apparently intended them to be different. But... If they spent most of their time in stasis(like in STO) they could be the same race. The TNG ep had no real proof they were extinct.
I would say that yes, only Earth produces mammals. Mammals are a particular lineage that is characterized by mammary glands, fur and homeothermy. Mammals are identified by those characteristics, but having fur does not cause a creature to be a mammal--just the opposite, being a mammal causes a creature to have fur.
On other planets where life evolved, creatures may evolve which have fur, produce milk, and practice homeothermy. Because these things work. Some of them might even resemble Earth species, again because that form works. But unless that world had been seeded with mammals from Earth, those creatures would not be mammals. You might, however, reasonably call them mammaliforms or some such.
Meh. Why did I write all that out? Obviously all appearances of caitians, catlike or catgirl-like, are because the writers are lazy and lack imagination. Sigh.
Hmm, looking it up you're probably on to something. Many definitions rely on tracing it back to the earliest ancestor, in our case Dimetrodon's peoples (I always did like that pelycosaur). But would it be reasonable to trace it all the way back to First Humanoids then? I suppose mammaliform would be de facto under the heading humanoid...on the other hand nowhere but here would we expect Gorn and Saurians to have TRIBBLE. I'd like to think that Gorn females are either Velociraptor like lithe intelligent and very vicious, or like the Berserker in Gears of War, though also intelligent.
I'm quite fine with convergent evolution, the only issue being the preponderance and ease of successful cross mating between humanoid species. There is a GREAT irony that the species that should've reasonably had the most hybrids, the Xindi never showed one.
I'd consider sticking a tail on a human with some nice pointed ears and holes in a beautiful pattern to be a bit less creative than fleshing out an actual humanoid cat. They could've at least altered their facial features.
Well, yes and no. Yes, the writers of the TV show apparently intended them to be different. But... If they spent most of their time in stasis(like in STO) they could be the same race. The TNG ep had no real proof they were extinct.
It's possible, but makes little sense. If they were in stasis then the clues would've led to a place to awaken them like in the Deferi arc, not a message that indicated that they existed. The recording was quite clear, the modern humanoids were their plan, their legacy, and they had no expectation that they would ever meet their children. Which I admit does say something. How do you drive a singular galaxy spanning civilization into extinction without an outside force. A force that should've been nigh impossible since they were the only game in town.
I liked that they actually tried to tackle it. That took gumption. Also it offers a solution for the extreme genetic compatibility in the Star Trek universe. Though I admit that a mass colonization and adaptation to the environment origin would likely have been more plausible.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
They have TRIBBLE. Homeothermic. Fur. They even resemble other established mammals.
Unless you're saying that only earth produces mammals which is another can of worms.
If I were ever to a Star Trek show, I'd have a symposium of zoologists come tour the set just so I could rope them into hammering out how extraterrestrial species classification would work out if we discover Earth-similar fauna. And Flora for that matter.
I totally agree, I'm rather shocked that they don't have tails and unduligrade options already. Feathers too, even if it's just for head hair.
The larger issue is that as much as JJ wanted to create his own Star Trek universe he already made a concession by physically connecting his universe to the Prime Universe. It's a temporal incursion that occurred in 2233. Period. He can't go back and retcon things that occurred before that (at least and not have people accept it and say, that makes sense). He radically altered the physiology of an entire species. I can deal with Nero, not all Romulans have forehead ridges, but JJ Caitians don't even have Feline facial features. They are pretty elves (very pretty) with some body mod scarring and a tail. The most feline feature in their faces is the fact that the lovely Cockrell twins have natural almond shaped eyes.
Why? Because this is why:
On other planets where life evolved, creatures may evolve which have fur, produce milk, and practice homeothermy. Because these things work. Some of them might even resemble Earth species, again because that form works. But unless that world had been seeded with mammals from Earth, those creatures would not be mammals. You might, however, reasonably call them mammaliforms or some such.
Meh. Why did I write all that out? Obviously all appearances of caitians, catlike or catgirl-like, are because the writers are lazy and lack imagination. Sigh.
My character Tsin'xing
It was a silly episode anyway.
Hmm, looking it up you're probably on to something. Many definitions rely on tracing it back to the earliest ancestor, in our case Dimetrodon's peoples (I always did like that pelycosaur). But would it be reasonable to trace it all the way back to First Humanoids then? I suppose mammaliform would be de facto under the heading humanoid...on the other hand nowhere but here would we expect Gorn and Saurians to have TRIBBLE. I'd like to think that Gorn females are either Velociraptor like lithe intelligent and very vicious, or like the Berserker in Gears of War, though also intelligent.
I'm quite fine with convergent evolution, the only issue being the preponderance and ease of successful cross mating between humanoid species. There is a GREAT irony that the species that should've reasonably had the most hybrids, the Xindi never showed one.
I'd consider sticking a tail on a human with some nice pointed ears and holes in a beautiful pattern to be a bit less creative than fleshing out an actual humanoid cat. They could've at least altered their facial features.
It's possible, but makes little sense. If they were in stasis then the clues would've led to a place to awaken them like in the Deferi arc, not a message that indicated that they existed. The recording was quite clear, the modern humanoids were their plan, their legacy, and they had no expectation that they would ever meet their children. Which I admit does say something. How do you drive a singular galaxy spanning civilization into extinction without an outside force. A force that should've been nigh impossible since they were the only game in town.
I liked that they actually tried to tackle it. That took gumption. Also it offers a solution for the extreme genetic compatibility in the Star Trek universe. Though I admit that a mass colonization and adaptation to the environment origin would likely have been more plausible.