Some folks just enjoy different things. For them, it has nothing to do with the Canon debate at all - simply has to do with the story, the directing, the production, the editing, and everything else - to them it's no different than why they might have liked Wrath of Khan and felt that Nemesis did all it could to kill off the franchise. Heck, like with other movies...folks that liked Tim Burton's Batman but cry thinking about Batman & Robin. Folks that enjoyed the Indiana Jones movies but like to pretend Crystal Skull didn't happen. Folks that complained about Return of the Jedi after watching Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back...having no idea that Ewoks were nothing compared to the travesty that was coming.
Well for once I'd to raise a question: if they want to make something "different", why pretending to make a Star Trek movie in the first place and not... You know... Something different?
Also again: I judge the jar jar trek movies on their own merits and there is a lot wrong with them on their own merits.
And, btw, there is a lot wrong with batsman and robin and crystal skull on their own merits.
Some folks just enjoy different things. For them, it has nothing to do with the Canon debate at all - simply has to do with the story, the directing, the production, the editing, and everything else - to them it's no different than why they might have liked Wrath of Khan and felt that Nemesis did all it could to kill off the franchise. Heck, like with other movies...folks that liked Tim Burton's Batman but cry thinking about Batman & Robin. Folks that enjoyed the Indiana Jones movies but like to pretend Crystal Skull didn't happen. Folks that complained about Return of the Jedi after watching Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back...having no idea that Ewoks were nothing compared to the travesty that was coming.
I see what your saying but some people should not be so analytical. Reading some of the comments it would seem many don't actually watch the movies, they look for faults and then complain.
I am picky on many things but there is a time and a place. Yes the Tribble reviving Kirk was strange but so is having sex with your captain in a pond so...
Watch movies for fun and entertainment. Raging about how much you hate some director.....HATE? Really? That's excessive and those that do that need mental assistance.
(None of the above is directed at you personally )
I see what your saying but some people should not be so analytical. Reading some of the comments it would seem many don't actually watch the movies, they look for faults and then complain.
I am picky on many things but there is a time and a place. Yes the Tribble reviving Kirk was strange but so is having sex with your captain in a pond so...
Watch movies for fun and entertainment. Raging about how much you hate some director.....HATE? Really? That's excessive and those that do that need mental assistance.
(None of the above is directed at you personally )
By your logic, if someone just hits me on the head with a baseball bat means "I was searching for a baseball bat"
If the flaws are so obvious they hit you right in the face it's not a question of analyzing or anything. And a movie that has to much of that is something a lot if people just can't enjoy, because they can not purposely reduce their intelligence to pakled level. Unless they drink a lot, but having to get drunk to enjoy the movie can't be right...
There are probably very few movies that do not have flaws, but if the movie can't hide them or can't draw you in enough in to overlook or simply not realize them immediately.., that's the movies fault.
By your logic, if someone just hits me on the head with a baseball bat means "I was searching for a baseball bat"
If the flaws are so obvious they hit you right in the face it's not a question of analyzing or anything. And a movie that has to much of that is something a lot if people just can't enjoy, because they can not purposely reduce their intelligence to pakled level. Unless they drink a lot, but having to get drunk to enjoy the movie can't be right...
There are probably very few movies that do not have flaws, but if the movie can't hide them or can't draw you in enough in to overlook or simply not realize them immediately.., that's the movies fault.
I understand.
Guess I don't let such things bother me that much, everyone is different though :P
Everybody's going to have their particular favorites, whether ranking the movies, series, captains, ships, etc, etc, etc... what you enjoy/like should be based on what you enjoy/like.
1. 5 days at warp 5 is awhile. If they went to war, then Earth would have many light years between them and the Empire... plenty of other colonies, starbases and ships in the way to delay an enemy fleet.
Keeping in mind that the Klingons had Warp technology since the 1940s it seems odd they never attacked and enslaved that blue planet just a few days away full of resources and primitive people.
2. No matter how you change the timeline, you still have an age gap between the characters. Scotty is established to be considerably older than Chevok.
Well, considering that Simon Pegg is 19 years older then Anton Velchin I am uncertain what the issue is here?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Keeping in mind that the Klingons had Warp technology since the 1940s it seems odd they never attacked and enslaved that blue planet just a few days away full of resources and primitive people.
Well, considering that Simon Pegg is 19 years older then Anton Velchin I am uncertain what the issue is here?
Klingons aren't really explorers. Also, it seems the Vulcans kept them at bay...
The character scotty, is 18 years old in the first jj trek movie. Unless my closed captioning is wrong?
Klingons aren't really explorers. Also, it seems the Vulcans kept them at bay...
How can Klingons be a feared warrior race if they never go anywhere to conqueror someone?
The character scotty, is 18 years old in the first jj trek movie. Unless my closed captioning is wrong?
I stated the actors age difference. If it is only 18 in the movie that still makes Scotty old enough to be Checkov's father. That would seem to be a considerable age difference - especially since James Doohan and Walter Koenig are only 16 years apart and you seem to have no issues with that.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Klingons aren't really explorers. Also, it seems the Vulcans kept them at bay...
The character scotty, is 18 years old in the first jj trek movie. Unless my closed captioning is wrong?
I think Chekhov is the only one who got an established age (17). And since Pegg is a lot older then 18 I really doubt he is supposed to be 18. Even in jar jar logic.
I think Chekhov is the only one who got an established age (17). And since Pegg is a lot older then 18 I really doubt he is supposed to be 18. Even in jar jar logic.
Oops! I misread his post. No one in the world would believe Simon Pegg is 18. Simon is 44 years old.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I watched JJ's Star Trek movies just for entertainment purposes... to see a new interpretation / alternate universe. I did not really have high expectations for the movies and JJ has broken a decent amount of canon, but looking at them strictly as "sci-fi" movies I would say they are entertaining.
When I say JJ has broken cannon, I am basically referring to the crew of the Enterprise. Yes, the movies have all of the "original" members of the bridge crew. However, in the prime universe the "original bridge crew" did not all show up on the Enterprise at the same time. They were added overtime. In the movie all the "original bridge crew" either graduated at the same time or were simply thrown into the mix with concocted circumstances (Dr. McCoy & Scotty).
The death of Kirk's father should no have changed the universe so much that the crew of the Enterprise basically all gathers together at the same time. That event should have really only affected Kirk. While the romance between Spock and Uhura is interesting, in my opinion it should not have happened since in ST: TOS there was no mention of Spock and Uhura having known each other prior to serving on the Enterprise. The death of Kirk's father would not have affected the circumstances in which Spock and Uhura would have met.
There are a whole lot more cannon braking issues like Captain Pike, but I can understand why JJ did what he did. Movies do not have the luxury of time to slowly introduce the bridge crew over a period of time especially since movie sequels are release 3 or 4 after the previous movie compared to a TV show which generally have 20 - 24 episodes per season.
In the end the new Star Trek movies breaks a lot of back story canon. However, given the time constraints of movies it is understandable. Therefore, it is simply best not to apply canon from the prime universe into JJ's alternate universe.
Whether or not JJ's movies are enjoyable to watch should simply be based on how the movies themselves were presented / directed. The end result for myself is that the two JJ Trek movies are enjoyable, but ultimately forgettable since they do not align with the Star Trek prime universe.
I despise JJ so haven't tried watching it until now since its on Netflix, I'm about 7 minutes in so far and spent about half that time alt tabbed out, I was about to close it, just wondering if there is any reason for me not to.
My feelings are mixed. As a sci-fi flick, it's got shiny stuff and lots of explosions and non-stop action. It can entertain in that aspect, and for that alone, I liked it. He spared no expense on the special effects, which are top-notch. But for an interpretation of a Star Trek story, Abrams can't help but let his pretentiousness show. There's too much absurdity and none of the "changes" make any real sense. For that, I don't like it.
Thanks for all the replies, I decided to watch it about halfway through then will finish it later today. The plot is already a little silly like others pointed out, stuff like the crew all meeting the same time, "Caitians" without fur, but its ok for now as a basic sci fi action movie I guess.
"Caitians" without fur, but its ok for now as a basic sci fi action movie I guess.
They aren't Caitians.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Klingons aren't really explorers. Also, it seems the Vulcans kept them at bay...
The character scotty, is 18 years old in the first jj trek movie. Unless my closed captioning is wrong?
The Klingons are an aggressively expansionistic empire. And we're putting out plenty of radio flux here from our planet - you couldn't read the signals more than a lightyear or so away, but the fact that they're patterened would still be plain. If they were that close, we'd have been enslaved sometime around the middle of WWII. (Remember that according to the events of First Contact, the Vulcans weren't even aware there was a civilization on Earth until they detected the warp wake of Zephram Cochrane's experiment. And yes, that contradicts the story told in the ENT episode "Cold Creek". What, you thought Trek chronology was always airtight?)
And your closed captioning is dead wrong. Scotty's age is never mentioned, but it's pretty plain that he's well over 18 - no matter whose dog you beamed away, you don't get put in sole charge of a remote station at 18 years of age.
The Klingons are an aggressively expansionistic empire. And we're putting out plenty of radio flux here from our planet - you couldn't read the signals more than a lightyear or so away, but the fact that they're patterened would still be plain. If they were that close, we'd have been enslaved sometime around the middle of WWII. (Remember that according to the events of First Contact, the Vulcans weren't even aware there was a civilization on Earth until they detected the warp wake of Zephram Cochrane's experiment. And yes, that contradicts the story told in the ENT episode "Cold Creek". What, you thought Trek chronology was always airtight?)
And your closed captioning is dead wrong. Scotty's age is never mentioned, but it's pretty plain that he's well over 18 - no matter whose dog you beamed away, you don't get put in sole charge of a remote station at 18 years of age.
Actually, Troi said the Vulcans were avoiding Earth because we were "too primitive", until Cochrane changed their minds.
The second JJ trek is worse than the first, by a lot. The first is at least re-watchable. I shouldn't have finished Into Dumbness when I only had about 20 mins left. The movie was a downhill slog from the first scene (the best, as it feels like the first movie), but everything after Kahn shows up is execrable, despite Cumberbund's efforts.
It is always nice to have closure...of sorts...even the type that makes me want to bang my head on a concrete block until I completely forget what I disliked about it.
I just finished watching it and my eyes still haven't recovered from the eye rolls. The lens flares don't help much either.
Yeah one of many reasons I can't stand JJ, After watching half of it yesterday I had a headache and had to lie down for awhile lol. Maybe next movie will be Star Trek: The Search for a Working Camera.
I just found out that JJ wrote Taking Care of Business, one of my favourite sit back and chill out movies, with one of my favourite moments between James Belushi, Gates McFadden and Mako... TRIBBLE do I feel violated On the other hand, it made it pretty clear how he got into the business... Pretty easy when your Dad's a producer for f**king PARAMOUNT PICTURES!!! :mad: ABraAaaaahhhhhhhhmz!!! :mad:
We're taking about a franchise that's been ignoring it's own canon since day one. IE. The Milky way is, speaking factually, about 100,000 to 120,000 light years across. Supposedly, James T. Kirk and company have traveled from Earth to the edge and back, and then on to the core of the galaxy and back. The TNG era gives us the rough idea that traveling 1000 light years at normal cruising speed is about a year's travel. (hence why 70,000 light years meant a 70 year trip for Voyager at first). So a round trip from Earth would be 100,000 light years and take about 100 years to do. Obviously it does not take anywhere near that long.
Just for comparison purposes, try to keep Power Rangers canon straight for five minutes. The city the first few seasons takes place it, Angel Grove, is located somewhere in California. But is established in the three part season 2 story "Return of the Green Ranger" that the city was a British colony in 1776 with green hills near a large lake....
and then, only three episodes later, it's shown in 1880 as a wild west frontier town in the desert.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
We're taking about a franchise that's been ignoring it's own canon since day one. IE. The Milky way is, speaking factually, about 100,000 to 120,000 light years across. Supposedly, James T. Kirk and company have traveled from Earth to the edge and back, and then on to the core of the galaxy and back. The TNG era gives us the rough idea that traveling 1000 light years at normal cruising speed is about a year's travel. (hence why 70,000 light years meant a 70 year trip for Voyager at first). So a round trip from Earth would be 100,000 light years and take about 100 years to do. Obviously it does not take anywhere near that long.
Just for comparison purposes, try to keep Power Rangers canon straight for five minutes. The city the first few seasons takes place it, Angel Grove, is located somewhere in California. But is established in the three part season 2 story "Return of the Green Ranger" that the city was a British colony in 1776 with green hills near a large lake....
and then, only three episodes later, it's shown in 1880 as a wild west frontier town in the desert.
Let's not forget how many times Spock called something the most durable substance known to the Federation.
We're taking about a franchise that's been ignoring it's own canon since day one. IE. The Milky way is, speaking factually, about 100,000 to 120,000 light years across. Supposedly, James T. Kirk and company have traveled from Earth to the edge and back, and then on to the core of the galaxy and back. The TNG era gives us the rough idea that traveling 1000 light years at normal cruising speed is about a year's travel.
I tend to delete ST: V from my memory every time it pops up.
My answer for the OP, is watch it. If not, you will be depriving yourself of the opportunity to watch Benedict Cumberbatch really steal the show. He's not the Khan we know and love, but he took the role and really delivered an exceptional performance.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
Comments
Well for once I'd to raise a question: if they want to make something "different", why pretending to make a Star Trek movie in the first place and not... You know... Something different?
Also again: I judge the jar jar trek movies on their own merits and there is a lot wrong with them on their own merits.
And, btw, there is a lot wrong with batsman and robin and crystal skull on their own merits.
I see what your saying but some people should not be so analytical. Reading some of the comments it would seem many don't actually watch the movies, they look for faults and then complain.
I am picky on many things but there is a time and a place. Yes the Tribble reviving Kirk was strange but so is having sex with your captain in a pond so...
Watch movies for fun and entertainment. Raging about how much you hate some director.....HATE? Really? That's excessive and those that do that need mental assistance.
(None of the above is directed at you personally
By your logic, if someone just hits me on the head with a baseball bat means "I was searching for a baseball bat"
If the flaws are so obvious they hit you right in the face it's not a question of analyzing or anything. And a movie that has to much of that is something a lot if people just can't enjoy, because they can not purposely reduce their intelligence to pakled level. Unless they drink a lot, but having to get drunk to enjoy the movie can't be right...
There are probably very few movies that do not have flaws, but if the movie can't hide them or can't draw you in enough in to overlook or simply not realize them immediately.., that's the movies fault.
I understand.
Guess I don't let such things bother me that much, everyone is different though :P
Well, considering that Simon Pegg is 19 years older then Anton Velchin I am uncertain what the issue is here?
Klingons aren't really explorers. Also, it seems the Vulcans kept them at bay...
The character scotty, is 18 years old in the first jj trek movie. Unless my closed captioning is wrong?
I stated the actors age difference. If it is only 18 in the movie that still makes Scotty old enough to be Checkov's father. That would seem to be a considerable age difference - especially since James Doohan and Walter Koenig are only 16 years apart and you seem to have no issues with that.
I think Chekhov is the only one who got an established age (17). And since Pegg is a lot older then 18 I really doubt he is supposed to be 18. Even in jar jar logic.
When I say JJ has broken cannon, I am basically referring to the crew of the Enterprise. Yes, the movies have all of the "original" members of the bridge crew. However, in the prime universe the "original bridge crew" did not all show up on the Enterprise at the same time. They were added overtime. In the movie all the "original bridge crew" either graduated at the same time or were simply thrown into the mix with concocted circumstances (Dr. McCoy & Scotty).
The death of Kirk's father should no have changed the universe so much that the crew of the Enterprise basically all gathers together at the same time. That event should have really only affected Kirk. While the romance between Spock and Uhura is interesting, in my opinion it should not have happened since in ST: TOS there was no mention of Spock and Uhura having known each other prior to serving on the Enterprise. The death of Kirk's father would not have affected the circumstances in which Spock and Uhura would have met.
There are a whole lot more cannon braking issues like Captain Pike, but I can understand why JJ did what he did. Movies do not have the luxury of time to slowly introduce the bridge crew over a period of time especially since movie sequels are release 3 or 4 after the previous movie compared to a TV show which generally have 20 - 24 episodes per season.
In the end the new Star Trek movies breaks a lot of back story canon. However, given the time constraints of movies it is understandable. Therefore, it is simply best not to apply canon from the prime universe into JJ's alternate universe.
Whether or not JJ's movies are enjoyable to watch should simply be based on how the movies themselves were presented / directed. The end result for myself is that the two JJ Trek movies are enjoyable, but ultimately forgettable since they do not align with the Star Trek prime universe.
My feelings are mixed. As a sci-fi flick, it's got shiny stuff and lots of explosions and non-stop action. It can entertain in that aspect, and for that alone, I liked it. He spared no expense on the special effects, which are top-notch. But for an interpretation of a Star Trek story, Abrams can't help but let his pretentiousness show. There's too much absurdity and none of the "changes" make any real sense. For that, I don't like it.
They aren't Caitians.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
^^ What he said...:P
And your closed captioning is dead wrong. Scotty's age is never mentioned, but it's pretty plain that he's well over 18 - no matter whose dog you beamed away, you don't get put in sole charge of a remote station at 18 years of age.
My character Tsin'xing
It is always nice to have closure...of sorts...even the type that makes me want to bang my head on a concrete block until I completely forget what I disliked about it.
Yeah one of many reasons I can't stand JJ, After watching half of it yesterday I had a headache and had to lie down for awhile lol. Maybe next movie will be Star Trek: The Search for a Working Camera.
Normal scheduling may now resume...
We're taking about a franchise that's been ignoring it's own canon since day one. IE. The Milky way is, speaking factually, about 100,000 to 120,000 light years across. Supposedly, James T. Kirk and company have traveled from Earth to the edge and back, and then on to the core of the galaxy and back. The TNG era gives us the rough idea that traveling 1000 light years at normal cruising speed is about a year's travel. (hence why 70,000 light years meant a 70 year trip for Voyager at first). So a round trip from Earth would be 100,000 light years and take about 100 years to do. Obviously it does not take anywhere near that long.
Just for comparison purposes, try to keep Power Rangers canon straight for five minutes. The city the first few seasons takes place it, Angel Grove, is located somewhere in California. But is established in the three part season 2 story "Return of the Green Ranger" that the city was a British colony in 1776 with green hills near a large lake....
and then, only three episodes later, it's shown in 1880 as a wild west frontier town in the desert.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
My character Tsin'xing
I watched Fringe until the last season, when it just got stupid.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
I tend to delete ST: V from my memory every time it pops up.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.