Y'know, if they add in Kazon to any faction, they are gonna find some stupid way of justifying it. Like allowing you to make a Klingon character on the Fed side because they wanted to follow the Kuvah'magh.
I'd expect something equally ridiculous for the Kazon being added.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I agree with f2pdrakron (yes, it happens).
We don't need more races.
Are there races I'd personally like to see added? Yes but it's a "nice to have" at best.
I don't have a big problem with the fact I can't make a QuchHa that is called that.
The Alien Gen worked just fine for that.
Throw some more options into the Alien Gen for all sides and there should be enough for everyone to play with.
I agree with the previous few players on the topic of adding more species. We really don't need more species in general, especially not on the KDF side. Adding new species would be justifiable on the Fed side, granted that those are actually Federation species that are currently missing.
Other than that, I don't think we need more species. And I don't understand the constant demands for new speices here on the boards, this is the only game forum I've seen that is so obsessed with addition of species. Usually MMOs have a number of species and that's it, unless they make an expansion that would bring new faction. Compared to that, STO has an awesome choice of species as it is.
You know, probably something to do with honoring the fact that you're a prisoner, like the whole Tosk thing, about how they find it honorable to be hunted. Maybe the Kazon have specific honor codes when captured.
Considering Kazon behaviour overall (fighting over water when they have space ships and killing themselves with replicators for example) its more likely they are just morons. If someone wiped them out it would do the galaxy a favour.
I can't see the KDF buying it though, Klingons respect strength and honor something that they would find lacking in the Kazon, they struggled against one Intrepid class starship against the Fleet of Starfleet or the KDF they wouldn't stand a chance.
That is because technologically, they are inferior to all powers. In fact, the whole premise behind the first two seasons of Voyager was that the Federation was more advanced than any of the species they encountered until Voyager passed through Borg Space.
These people killed themselves with a replicator. They wage space wars over water. They're morons. The Klingons would likely consider exterminating them a mercy, quite frankly.
You would kill yourself too if you didn't know how to properly install or service a replicator. My guess is that they were trying to modify it to make weapons and it ended up exploding in their face. We have become so spoiled with "plug and play" technology that we forget how hard it once was to get two different pieces of technology (such as two different operating systems) to work in tandem. Try giving a native of the African Bush or the Jungles of the Amazon a smartphone or IPad without any guidance or instructions and see how well it works. When a society has ZERO experience with a particular technology, mishaps and accidents are inevitable.
Lol, the saying, "needs a ditch digger too..." is not a favorable saying but speaks to the uselessness of a person or people in society.
Okay, tell me how well society is WITHOUT the unglamorous labor needed to make sure the machinery still runs properly? Even in today's high tech society, there is still a need for ditch diggers to clear out stilted up drainage ditches. Granted, they use backhoes instead of shovels. Still, without them, your neighborhood would be under 3 feet of water during a flashflood without them. TRIBBLE on the unskilled labor and trade skill(i.e. blue collar) people who make society possible, when there is no one to replace them, then society starts to decay.
What does this have to do with the Kazon? They are possible grunts and unskilled laborers that need guidance and REAL leadership, not this power and control TRIBBLE you see in gangs where obedience trumps practicality and getting things done.
Considering Kazon behaviour overall (fighting over water when they have space ships and killing themselves with replicators for example) its more likely they are just morons. If someone wiped them out it would do the galaxy a favour.
Or like I said above, they lack real leadership and experience, having been a slave race to the Trabe. While I agree that it is unlikely that many would submit to being a vassal to the Klingon Empire, some individuals or possibly one smaller faction MIGHT decide that learning disciple from the KDF would make them stronger and better able to overcome their rivals.
You would kill yourself too if you didn't know how to properly install or service a replicator. My guess is that they were trying to modify it to make weapons and it ended up exploding in their face. We have become so spoiled with "plug and play" technology that we forget how hard it once was to get two different pieces of technology (such as two different operating systems) to work in tandem. Try giving a native of the African Bush or the Jungles of the Amazon a smartphone or IPad without any guidance or instructions and see how well it works. When a society has ZERO experience with a particular technology, mishaps and accidents are inevitable.
I notice you conveniently ignore the part where they fight wars over water, one of the more common molecules in the universe.
Okay, tell me how well society is WITHOUT the unglamorous labor needed to make sure the machinery still runs properly? Even in today's high tech society, there is still a need for ditch diggers to clear out stilted up drainage ditches. Granted, they use backhoes instead of shovels. Still, without them, your neighborhood would be under 3 feet of water during a flashflood without them. TRIBBLE on the unskilled labor and trade skill(i.e. blue collar) people who make society possible, when there is no one to replace them, then society starts to decay.
What does this have to do with the Kazon? They are possible grunts and unskilled laborers that need guidance and REAL leadership, not this power and control TRIBBLE you see in gangs where obedience trumps practicality and getting things done.
The Klingons already have people for unglamorous labor, and more than they actually need if the extensive slums in First City are any judge. They do it themselves, for Pete's sake: Most of the House of Martok, for example, are farmers, not warriors.
Or like I said above, they lack real leadership and experience, having been a slave race to the Trabe. While I agree that it is unlikely that many would submit to being a vassal to the Klingon Empire, some individuals or possibly one smaller faction MIGHT decide that learning disciple from the KDF would make them stronger and better able to overcome their rivals.
Or, they're stupid dumbass f*cks who can't think their way out of a paper bag.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yeah the whole replicator thing is their own fault, we have seen examples of different races tech working together when the engineers are not morons. Even when it is unfamiliar to them.
DS9 for example, Cardassian station working with a lot of Fedreation tech. Or the Defiant having a Romulan cloaking device., sure the Romulans might of helped somewhat but I would imagine it wasn't easy to do since Romulan and Starfleet ships are so different. I didn't see Chief O'Brian get killed because he was incompetent.
Where was is said any faction is getting any new races?
for the KDF my primary race desire is that they finally get female versions of nausicaans and letheans how hard is it really all the 3d models are humanoid not something special like the gorn they just need to take the time to develop a head model.
Where was is said any faction is getting any new races?
for the KDF my primary race desire is that they finally get female versions of nausicaans and letheans how hard is it really all the 3d models are humanoid not something special like the gorn they just need to take the time to develop a head model.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I notice you conveniently ignore the part where they fight wars over water, one of the more common molecules in the universe.
The Klingons already have people for unglamorous labor, and more than they actually need if the extensive slums in First City are any judge. They do it themselves, for Pete's sake: Most of the House of Martok, for example, are farmers, not warriors.
Or, they're stupid dumbass f*cks who can't think their way out of a paper bag.
And the issue of water was to further highlight the "miracle" of replicator technology. While it was a flimsy plot point, the water issue was a SECTOR wide scarcity that EVERYONE was fighting over. It is the classic . Likely the Caretaker technology is partially to blame as it caused the desertification of the Ocampa's home planet.
You sir, ignore the classic diamondwater paradox. When push comes to shove and potable water becomes scares, then people WILL get violent over it. It is happened through history (particularly in the African Sahel), and has been parroted in the Dune series.
As for the Kazon, those you ignore and underestimate are the ones who defeat you. They HAVE shown a cleverness even though they do not encourage nor reward inventiveness. A culture can value one over the other. And cleverness is NOT ingenuity.
The comment was not about playable female Gorn but playable Nausicaan / Letheanfemales as we have playable Reman females that were also never seen on-screen but generally a species has a male/female counterpart.
And the issue of water was to further highlight the "miracle" of replicator technology. While it was a flimsy plot point, the water issue was a SECTOR wide scarcity that EVERYONE was fighting over. It is the classic . Likely the Caretaker technology is partially to blame as it caused the desertification of the Ocampa's home planet.
You sir, ignore the classic diamondwater paradox. When push comes to shove and potable water becomes scares, then people WILL get violent over it. It is happened through history (particularly in the African Sahel), and has been parroted in the Dune series.
But this isn't Africa we're talking about. The Kazon are a warp-capable species, and believe it or not water is extremely plentiful in space, in the form of ice in comets and asteroids. All you need is mining equipment and basic water purifiers. Or just go over to an Earthlike planet (extremely common in Star Trek) and get water there.
The Kazon are exactly what they appear to be: ugly idiots with bad hair.
The comment was not about playable female Gorn but playable Nausicaan / Letheanfemales as we have playable Reman females that were also never seen on-screen but generally a species has a male/female counterpart.
My bad.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And the issue of water was to further highlight the "miracle" of replicator technology. While it was a flimsy plot point, the water issue was a SECTOR wide scarcity that EVERYONE was fighting over. It is the classic . Likely the Caretaker technology is partially to blame as it caused the desertification of the Ocampa's home planet.
You sir, ignore the classic diamondwater paradox. When push comes to shove and potable water becomes scares, then people WILL get violent over it. It is happened through history (particularly in the African Sahel), and has been parroted in the Dune series.
As for the Kazon, those you ignore and underestimate are the ones who defeat you. They HAVE shown a cleverness even though they do not encourage nor reward inventiveness. A culture can value one over the other. And cleverness is NOT ingenuity.
If water was scarce in the sector which is unlikely in itself given the abundance of hydrogen and oxygen everywhere they could just fly to another sector to get water. They have warp able starships.
Heck go watch sfdebris's caretaker review, he says the same thing.
If water was scarce in the sector which is unlikely in itself given the abundance of hydrogen and oxygen everywhere they could just fly to another sector to get water. They have warp able starships.
Heck go watch sfdebris's caretaker review, he says the same thing.
Again, a flimsy plot point. However, one still needs to keep in mind that while Federation starships can warp all over the place WITHOUT any fuel cost, that is NOT the case for the initial Delta Quadrant races(replicator technology McGuffin, again). Even if they could haul in water from a different sector, there is a COST of moving it around, one that the economy of that particular sector apparently can NOT afford.
So again we get back to the screwy plot point, that being the only quick solution to a resource poor sector would be replicator technology which would change the balance of power in that region. It is the only long term plot hook that can explain why everyone and their sibling wants to get their hands on Voyager.
"They are just stupid" is not a logical argument. It is a lazy justification based on emotion and NOT facts. It fails to adequately explain Voyager seasons 1-3 as well as Voyager being more advanced than EVERY species in the region(to include the Vidiians, whom only had a medical advantage due to the Phage, but was inferior in every other aspect).
Again, a flimsy plot point. However, one still needs to keep in mind that while Federation starships can warp all over the place WITHOUT any fuel cost, that is NOT the case for the initial Delta Quadrant races(replicator technology McGuffin, again). Even if they could haul in water from a different sector, there is a COST of moving it around, one that the economy of that particular sector apparently can NOT afford.
First of all, Federation starships most certainly do require fuel (chiefly deuterium and antihydrogen), as just for starters this is a problem faced by Voyager herself (briefly, because the writers got lazy really fast, but supply problems were fairly constant for at least the first season). They are just as limited in this regard as DQ races. Moreso, in fact, because unlike the local spacefaring races Voyager doesn't have any guaranteed-friendly refueling stops within easy reach.
So again we get back to the screwy plot point, that being the only quick solution to a resource poor sector would be replicator technology which would change the balance of power in that region. It is the only long term plot hook that can explain why everyone and their sibling wants to get their hands on Voyager.
Hardly. It's not just the replicators: Voyager and a 37-plus-year-old modified courier vessel held their own against a full squadron of Kazon warships, including a heavy capital class, in the first episode. Their war tech and their scientific knowledge are both better than the Kazon, another attractant. Others want to get hold of them for their cultural gifts (the "Prime Factors" guys), or even their organs and biochemistry (the Vidiians).
"They are just stupid" is not a logical argument. It is a lazy justification based on emotion and NOT facts.
FACT: They fight wars over water. Water is one of the most common molecules in the universe, ergo the idea of a sector-wide water shortage is patently ridiculous, ergo any group that tries to justify their actions with one is either cheap, lazy, and/or stupid.
FACT: The Borg consider the Kazon so worthless that assimilating them would weaken the Collective rather than improve it. And since the Borg are quite frankly a bunch of morons themselves, that's saying something.
It fails to adequately explain Voyager seasons 1-3 as well as Voyager being more advanced than EVERY species in the region(to include the Vidiians, whom only had a medical advantage due to the Phage, but was inferior in every other aspect).
Ah, yes, the Vidiians, who essentially had Voyager at their mercy with an energy drain device in their very first appearance, right up to the part where the morons apparently forgot to turn their shields on when the ship they were attacking shot back. Making those two just as stupid as the Kazon. (Evidence for the latter: Shields block transporters and Janeway was able to beam them off their own ship.)
Flashier and more complex to build =/= better, no matter how many times you say it does.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I don't want to get into this argument right now but I'd like to throw the obvious problem out:
It's certainly easier to create water (H2O) than antimatter (antihydrogen).
So if the Kazon have the ability to produce the latter they can also produce the former. Antimatter is not like diamonds in that it can be found somewhere, it can't exist naturally.
It's more akin to bronze in that it must be manufactured. So Kazon without the tech to produce water, something that does not require replicators, (we can produce water from Hydorgen and Oxygen today) is like people who can produce bronze but don't have access to copper.
I agree with the previous few players on the topic of adding more species. We really don't need more species in general, especially not on the KDF side.
Exactly. You don't see anyone playing some of the races we already do have. When's the last time you saw a Nausicaan or a Lethean running around that wasn't an NPC? Does anyone truly have the desire to roll a Kazon?
Ah, yes, the Vidiians, who essentially had Voyager at their mercy with an energy drain device in their very first appearance, right up to the part where the morons apparently forgot to turn their shields on when the ship they were attacking shot back. Making those two just as stupid as the Kazon. (Evidence for the latter: Shields block transporters and Janeway was able to beam them off their own ship.)
If "not turning your shields on for story purpose" is sign of stupidity, then entire Fed, KDF and Romulan fleet invading Chintoka system falls into this category. Double it for Romualns who also forgot how to do decloak alphas
Watch the first couple of minutes. I cannot believe I thought how cool this fight was...until I started thinking. Let's face it, Star Trek is full of plot holes like this, and I can bet you can find more of these in almost every other episode of Star Trek.
We can only argue that only moron here really is myself, trying to defend Voyager races for some reason.
Exactly. You don't see anyone playing some of the races we already do have. When's the last time you saw a Nausicaan or a Lethean running around that wasn't an NPC? Does anyone truly have the desire to roll a Kazon?
Well, truth be told - I do see a lot of Nausicaan player characters, especially lately after the 'pirate' trait was fixed. I have a Nausicaan pirate myself, it was my first KDF character because I liked playing as a pirate and I love the Nausicaan designs.
Letheans seem to be more scarce, but I do see them ocassinally and I know few people on this forum that have Lethean mains.
Other than that, there a lot of Ferasan, Gorn and Orion characters besides the main Klingons, specaking on the KDF side.
On the Fed side is more prominent and I rarely see a Pakled, Tellarite or a Benzite for ex.
Anyway, my point was - there are sufficient number of species already. If anything should be added, it should be for the Federation and species that are members of the UFP, but are missing in game. No need to shoehorn any species we enconter in a faction, like Kazon or Krenim or whatever.
Exactly. You don't see anyone playing some of the races we already do have. When's the last time you saw a Nausicaan or a Lethean running around that wasn't an NPC? Does anyone truly have the desire to roll a Kazon?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Exactly. You don't see anyone playing some of the races we already do have. When's the last time you saw a Nausicaan or a Lethean running around that wasn't an NPC? Does anyone truly have the desire to roll a Kazon?
My KDF is a Lethean. It's fun vaporizing people with my mind.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Anyway, my point was - there are sufficient number of species already. If anything should be added, it should be for the Federation and species that are members of the UFP, but are missing in game. No need to shoehorn any species we enconter in a faction, like Kazon or Krenim or whatever.
I disagree; Federation already has a ton of race choices compared to the KDF. We need more options to balance things out.
I disagree; Federation already has a ton of race choices compared to the KDF. We need more options to balance things out.
I'm saying we don't need to balance things out in that direction. The United Federation of Planets consists of a huge number of different species. This simply is not the case with the Klingon Empire. I'm not dissing the existing species of the KDF - I play all of them (besides Lethean), but even having them in the Empire is a stretch.
There's no point in shoving more and more species that have nothing to do with the Klingon Empire just so we can have the same number of species with the Federation - which would never happen because the point of the Federation is having many different species.
Balancing out is needed, but in the ship department, not in terms of playable species.
I don't want to get into this argument right now but I'd like to throw the obvious problem out:
It's certainly easier to create water (H2O) than antimatter (antihydrogen).
So if the Kazon have the ability to produce the latter they can also produce the former. Antimatter is not like diamonds in that it can be found somewhere, it can't exist naturally.
It's more akin to bronze in that it must be manufactured. So Kazon without the tech to produce water, something that does not require replicators, (we can produce water from Hydorgen and Oxygen today) is like people who can produce bronze but don't have access to copper.
And that gets to my point earlier about the local economy not making it feasible to transport water into the area. It costs more in anti-matter fuel to move it than the water is worth.
It's not official canon, but the Prime Directive RPG did establish five races as conquered subjects of the Empire who serve in the KDF. So I think we could make the argument for other conquered races to be in, even if PD's Dunkar, Slirdarian, Hildarian, Cromarg, and Zoolie aren't included.
KDF races don't have to be treated like equals as in the Federation. They can totally have their own faction-appropriate flavor.
And that gets to my point earlier about the local economy not making it feasible to transport water into the area. It costs more in anti-matter fuel to move it than the water is worth.
Well if that were that case why dont they just produce their water in each system?
I mean all you need is oxygen (M-class planet) and hydrogen (the star it orbits) problem solved.
And if you put the stuff into a hydrogen fuelcell you get water AND electricity at the same time.:)
But here's the thing: if we can believe what Neelix told us about the Kazon in the pilot
"Some have food, some have ore, some have water. They all trade and they all kill each other for it."
it's the exact reversal of what you describe. They do ship it around as tradegoods just like they ship ore and other stuff.
Comments
I'd expect something equally ridiculous for the Kazon being added.
We don't need more races.
Are there races I'd personally like to see added? Yes but it's a "nice to have" at best.
I don't have a big problem with the fact I can't make a QuchHa that is called that.
The Alien Gen worked just fine for that.
Throw some more options into the Alien Gen for all sides and there should be enough for everyone to play with.
Other than that, I don't think we need more species. And I don't understand the constant demands for new speices here on the boards, this is the only game forum I've seen that is so obsessed with addition of species. Usually MMOs have a number of species and that's it, unless they make an expansion that would bring new faction. Compared to that, STO has an awesome choice of species as it is.
Considering Kazon behaviour overall (fighting over water when they have space ships and killing themselves with replicators for example) its more likely they are just morons. If someone wiped them out it would do the galaxy a favour.
That is because technologically, they are inferior to all powers. In fact, the whole premise behind the first two seasons of Voyager was that the Federation was more advanced than any of the species they encountered until Voyager passed through Borg Space.
You would kill yourself too if you didn't know how to properly install or service a replicator. My guess is that they were trying to modify it to make weapons and it ended up exploding in their face. We have become so spoiled with "plug and play" technology that we forget how hard it once was to get two different pieces of technology (such as two different operating systems) to work in tandem. Try giving a native of the African Bush or the Jungles of the Amazon a smartphone or IPad without any guidance or instructions and see how well it works. When a society has ZERO experience with a particular technology, mishaps and accidents are inevitable.
Okay, tell me how well society is WITHOUT the unglamorous labor needed to make sure the machinery still runs properly? Even in today's high tech society, there is still a need for ditch diggers to clear out stilted up drainage ditches. Granted, they use backhoes instead of shovels. Still, without them, your neighborhood would be under 3 feet of water during a flashflood without them. TRIBBLE on the unskilled labor and trade skill(i.e. blue collar) people who make society possible, when there is no one to replace them, then society starts to decay.
What does this have to do with the Kazon? They are possible grunts and unskilled laborers that need guidance and REAL leadership, not this power and control TRIBBLE you see in gangs where obedience trumps practicality and getting things done.
Or like I said above, they lack real leadership and experience, having been a slave race to the Trabe. While I agree that it is unlikely that many would submit to being a vassal to the Klingon Empire, some individuals or possibly one smaller faction MIGHT decide that learning disciple from the KDF would make them stronger and better able to overcome their rivals.
The Klingons already have people for unglamorous labor, and more than they actually need if the extensive slums in First City are any judge. They do it themselves, for Pete's sake: Most of the House of Martok, for example, are farmers, not warriors.
Or, they're stupid dumbass f*cks who can't think their way out of a paper bag.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
DS9 for example, Cardassian station working with a lot of Fedreation tech. Or the Defiant having a Romulan cloaking device., sure the Romulans might of helped somewhat but I would imagine it wasn't easy to do since Romulan and Starfleet ships are so different. I didn't see Chief O'Brian get killed because he was incompetent.
for the KDF my primary race desire is that they finally get female versions of nausicaans and letheans how hard is it really all the 3d models are humanoid not something special like the gorn they just need to take the time to develop a head model.
Actually, it's quite possible to just RP your Gorn as female. According to soft canon data gathered together here, female Gorn are just bigger than male Gorn.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And the issue of water was to further highlight the "miracle" of replicator technology. While it was a flimsy plot point, the water issue was a SECTOR wide scarcity that EVERYONE was fighting over. It is the classic . Likely the Caretaker technology is partially to blame as it caused the desertification of the Ocampa's home planet.
You sir, ignore the classic diamondwater paradox. When push comes to shove and potable water becomes scares, then people WILL get violent over it. It is happened through history (particularly in the African Sahel), and has been parroted in the Dune series.
As for the Kazon, those you ignore and underestimate are the ones who defeat you. They HAVE shown a cleverness even though they do not encourage nor reward inventiveness. A culture can value one over the other. And cleverness is NOT ingenuity.
The comment was not about playable female Gorn but playable Nausicaan / Lethean females as we have playable Reman females that were also never seen on-screen but generally a species has a male/female counterpart.
But this isn't Africa we're talking about. The Kazon are a warp-capable species, and believe it or not water is extremely plentiful in space, in the form of ice in comets and asteroids. All you need is mining equipment and basic water purifiers. Or just go over to an Earthlike planet (extremely common in Star Trek) and get water there.
The Kazon are exactly what they appear to be: ugly idiots with bad hair.
My bad.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
If water was scarce in the sector which is unlikely in itself given the abundance of hydrogen and oxygen everywhere they could just fly to another sector to get water. They have warp able starships.
Heck go watch sfdebris's caretaker review, he says the same thing.
Again, a flimsy plot point. However, one still needs to keep in mind that while Federation starships can warp all over the place WITHOUT any fuel cost, that is NOT the case for the initial Delta Quadrant races(replicator technology McGuffin, again). Even if they could haul in water from a different sector, there is a COST of moving it around, one that the economy of that particular sector apparently can NOT afford.
So again we get back to the screwy plot point, that being the only quick solution to a resource poor sector would be replicator technology which would change the balance of power in that region. It is the only long term plot hook that can explain why everyone and their sibling wants to get their hands on Voyager.
"They are just stupid" is not a logical argument. It is a lazy justification based on emotion and NOT facts. It fails to adequately explain Voyager seasons 1-3 as well as Voyager being more advanced than EVERY species in the region(to include the Vidiians, whom only had a medical advantage due to the Phage, but was inferior in every other aspect).
Hardly. It's not just the replicators: Voyager and a 37-plus-year-old modified courier vessel held their own against a full squadron of Kazon warships, including a heavy capital class, in the first episode. Their war tech and their scientific knowledge are both better than the Kazon, another attractant. Others want to get hold of them for their cultural gifts (the "Prime Factors" guys), or even their organs and biochemistry (the Vidiians).
FACT: They fight wars over water. Water is one of the most common molecules in the universe, ergo the idea of a sector-wide water shortage is patently ridiculous, ergo any group that tries to justify their actions with one is either cheap, lazy, and/or stupid.
FACT: The Borg consider the Kazon so worthless that assimilating them would weaken the Collective rather than improve it. And since the Borg are quite frankly a bunch of morons themselves, that's saying something.
Ah, yes, the Vidiians, who essentially had Voyager at their mercy with an energy drain device in their very first appearance, right up to the part where the morons apparently forgot to turn their shields on when the ship they were attacking shot back. Making those two just as stupid as the Kazon. (Evidence for the latter: Shields block transporters and Janeway was able to beam them off their own ship.)
Flashier and more complex to build =/= better, no matter how many times you say it does.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It's certainly easier to create water (H2O) than antimatter (antihydrogen).
So if the Kazon have the ability to produce the latter they can also produce the former. Antimatter is not like diamonds in that it can be found somewhere, it can't exist naturally.
It's more akin to bronze in that it must be manufactured. So Kazon without the tech to produce water, something that does not require replicators, (we can produce water from Hydorgen and Oxygen today) is like people who can produce bronze but don't have access to copper.
Exactly. You don't see anyone playing some of the races we already do have. When's the last time you saw a Nausicaan or a Lethean running around that wasn't an NPC? Does anyone truly have the desire to roll a Kazon?
If "not turning your shields on for story purpose" is sign of stupidity, then entire Fed, KDF and Romulan fleet invading Chintoka system falls into this category. Double it for Romualns who also forgot how to do decloak alphas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg_6eeJ5eVc
Watch the first couple of minutes. I cannot believe I thought how cool this fight was...until I started thinking. Let's face it, Star Trek is full of plot holes like this, and I can bet you can find more of these in almost every other episode of Star Trek.
We can only argue that only moron here really is myself, trying to defend Voyager races for some reason.
Well, truth be told - I do see a lot of Nausicaan player characters, especially lately after the 'pirate' trait was fixed. I have a Nausicaan pirate myself, it was my first KDF character because I liked playing as a pirate and I love the Nausicaan designs.
Letheans seem to be more scarce, but I do see them ocassinally and I know few people on this forum that have Lethean mains.
Other than that, there a lot of Ferasan, Gorn and Orion characters besides the main Klingons, specaking on the KDF side.
On the Fed side is more prominent and I rarely see a Pakled, Tellarite or a Benzite for ex.
Anyway, my point was - there are sufficient number of species already. If anything should be added, it should be for the Federation and species that are members of the UFP, but are missing in game. No need to shoehorn any species we enconter in a faction, like Kazon or Krenim or whatever.
*raises hand* I play a Lethean.
My KDF is a Lethean. It's fun vaporizing people with my mind.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And back in the day I took great joy in killing people in ground PvP with my mind.
I disagree; Federation already has a ton of race choices compared to the KDF. We need more options to balance things out.
I'm saying we don't need to balance things out in that direction. The United Federation of Planets consists of a huge number of different species. This simply is not the case with the Klingon Empire. I'm not dissing the existing species of the KDF - I play all of them (besides Lethean), but even having them in the Empire is a stretch.
There's no point in shoving more and more species that have nothing to do with the Klingon Empire just so we can have the same number of species with the Federation - which would never happen because the point of the Federation is having many different species.
Balancing out is needed, but in the ship department, not in terms of playable species.
And that gets to my point earlier about the local economy not making it feasible to transport water into the area. It costs more in anti-matter fuel to move it than the water is worth.
KDF races don't have to be treated like equals as in the Federation. They can totally have their own faction-appropriate flavor.
Well if that were that case why dont they just produce their water in each system?
I mean all you need is oxygen (M-class planet) and hydrogen (the star it orbits) problem solved.
And if you put the stuff into a hydrogen fuelcell you get water AND electricity at the same time.:)
But here's the thing: if we can believe what Neelix told us about the Kazon in the pilot
"Some have food, some have ore, some have water. They all trade and they all kill each other for it."
it's the exact reversal of what you describe. They do ship it around as tradegoods just like they ship ore and other stuff.