Torpedoes definitely needed their viability back.
The most efficient killing builds quite frankly should rely on a mix of energy weapons and torpedoes, the fact that "all energy" builds has ever been king of the hill is a major failing.
Torpedoes definitely needed their viability back.
The most efficient killing builds quite frankly should rely on a mix of energy weapons and torpedoes, the fact that "all energy" builds has ever been king of the hill is a major failing.
That is what S8.5/9 has brought us.
Changes that have made it happen.
1) Omega Kinetic Sheering Rep Trait.
2) Hirogen Space Trait. Intimidating Strikes.
3) Hirogen Space Trait. Hot Pursuit.
4) Dyson Photon Bonus gear / grav torp
5) Undine Photon Bonus gear / Bio Torp
6) Rep trait overhaul... removing the extra shield heals (20s cool down, and less people slotting all the +shield regen/recharges) has been a MAJOR boon to torps.
Torps have always I found to be very underrated and the key to a great premade.... now I am finding them to be a very viable weapon in every PvP and PvE types.
So ya for the most part that is why I am big on beams right now... finding ways to make them work and support my torp dmg.
for opening holes, DBB FAW just seems to make and keep open holes the best, giving torps the best chance to land. not near as high a DPS by themseves as DHCs or all single beams, but they are there for thier utility, not to be the killing strike. BO is still just a single hit, it wont keep a hole open well, same with CRF DHC. right now the way to go if you use torps is DBB+torp, or if you want to make BO your main spike DHCs+ DBB. all 3 is like you said very boff expensive, and has little or no flexibility outside a vap. the other 2 types can deal high pressure still
There's several issues with the E-Bio, both with how it is working and with the tooltips/info for it. Course, folks aren't happy that I keep calling what's going on with the E-Bio a bug - but when no other torps compares to it in the least - when it does not work anything like any other torp...one can't delude oneself that there's not something wrong there.
Before S9 I'd have agreed with you completely, but now? The only avenue of character progression that was left (rep tier passives) is gone, so all that's left is ship/gear creep. Games need some sort of character progression, and I think OP rep items is how Cryptic plans to keep character progression going in STO. Why that instead of rep passives? Who can know, maybe they feel they can control it better?
No I want escorts in PVP, using DHC, turrets, and maybe a DBB if they want. Using beams on it is just trolling. You may be able to do more overall dps, much less burst and not effective. one of the ways to fix the game is to stop such silliness as beams on escorts.
HoBO is still running DHC ships regularly in our premades and never runs beam escorts.
Does anyone really care what HOBO does? As someone said its up to people how they fly their ships.
My guess is, some people don't want to fight bug ships/ships with fleet armour consoles with high turn rate advantage so they just spam FAW instead of dying in a pointless dogfight. You simply don't like that people don't fit into your nice target profile and so want the game to change to suit you. Ha ha, unlucky.
Life goes on.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Before S9 I'd have agreed with you completely, but now? The only avenue of character progression that was left (rep tier passives) is gone, so all that's left is ship/gear creep. Games need some sort of character progression, and I think OP rep items is how Cryptic plans to keep character progression going in STO. Why that instead of rep passives? Who can know, maybe they feel they can control it better?
Thing is...new Rep is not higher Rep. It's not a case you have to have done previous Reps to do new Reps. There is no content progression. By having new Reps make previous Reps worthless...that's not progression.
Thing is...new Rep is not higher Rep. It's not a case you have to have done previous Reps to do new Reps. There is no content progression. By having new Reps make previous Reps worthless...that's not progression.
I don't see other reps being worthless though.
The weapon set is good for escorts... but is it good for cruisers ? Same with the ship set... great aegis replacment its the mk xii aegis we been asking for forever... but its not a set for every ship build.
Even Sci... I would still argue the Grav torp from Dyson is better for a sci. (of course both together is fun).
Nukura has always been so so outside of the console that is popular on beam ships.
Same thing with romulan... its not that great from a PvP perspective... PvE folks still like the weapons and the beam that draws zero energy.
I think they have been going for flavors... and like anything new Undine is the new rep of the month so its popular... and its new so if there is some advantage to any of the gear it will take people some time to adjust. (I honestly don't see any major advantage... perhaps the torp with spread needs to be looked at... really though is it more powerful then a Spread 3 Dyson Grav torp, on a sci with partical and graviton maxed ?)
2pc Harness provides +7.6% strength damage to Plasma Energy Weapons.
2pc 8472 provides +7.5% bonus damage to Phaser and Disruptor.
It would be one thing if they went back through and made the various bonuses equal...that the 2pc Harness also provided a bonus damage boost rather than a strength boost...
Many 2pc sets that include a Projectile Weapon as one of the combinations to get the 2pc, provide no boost for the Projectile Weapon at all.
Nukara with Web Mines...
Romulan with Hyper-Plasma Torps...
Borg with the Omega Plasma Torp...
We look at the Voth and Undine Reps...things are changing. But they haven't gone back and done a balance pass on previous sets (whether Rep, Lobi, etc)...
A person could run 8472 content before ever toughing the other Reps...then they'll see things that - well, they're not only not even an upgrade, they're not even on the same level.
Flavor would be one thing if it were balanced flavor...but it's not. And that's before even getting into 4pc vs. 3pc shenanigans.
Your still going to see more people in STFs spamming romulan hyper torps then HY undine. Because its higher dps honestly. (sure one is usable in PvP and the other isn't... but rom hyper is not useless... it racks up the burns in PvE like nothing else)
I am not convinced that undine is one set to rule them all... because its clearly not. At least that is how I see it. On the wording differnce of plasma strength and phaser dmg... is there really any difference I havn't slotted both sets to really look. I suspect its just a typography difference and not an actual difference.
I won't address ground stuff cause I could care less you could be right perhaps ground is out of wack beats me to be honest.
Torpedo wise though... no undine is fine. The torp is powerful but not OP. (many people testing it are basing things on shooting undine as well which the torp gets a +20% on.) To be honest in STFs and such I still find the Graviton torp to be far superior. (and yes the dyson set REALLY boosts photon much more then the undine set does) In fact the undine set also has part of its set bonus require you to slot a tac console.... and a uni console that is only so so in comparison to some of the lobi consoles that give +crit and crtd.
Not every newish set has been Uber... look at the hirogen Lobi set for example. It is terrible. Which is why I believe they are going for flavor and not one up all the time. (Again you may be right on the torp being bugged on spread... I would like to hear from one of the devs on that)
On the wording differnce of plasma strength and phaser dmg... is there really any difference I havn't slotted both sets to really look. I suspect its just a typography difference and not an actual difference.
The previous sets provided only +X% base damage. They went out of their way (which I'm happy about as far as the tooltip goes) to make it clear that the Phaser/Disruptor 2pc is +X% bonus rather than base damage.
The 2pc Harness is like a +7.6% Tac Console.
The 2pc 8472 is like a +7.5% EPtW/APO/APA/etc.
Unless they've already changed the previous sets and I missed the rejoicing on the forums, then it's still working that way.
But we had the 2pc T'varo providing +10% bonus. The 2pc Obelisk providing a +10% bonus.
Meh, it gets into the inconsistency thing.
Would be nifty if S9.5 could straighten that out instead of having to wait for X2 or later.
With neither equipped, the listed DPV for one of his D-Tet Arrays is 835.6 damage.
Slot the 2pc Nukara, and it's 852.8 damage.
Slot the 2pc Apex instead, and it's likewise 852.8 damage.
Slot both 2pc, and it's 869.9 damage.
Base DPV on an Array is 100. 7.6% would be 7.6 damage. Modified by 104 Weapon Power, would take it to ~851.4...telling me that the 104 is not likely 104 or the 7.6 is actually more than 7.6 and just rounded. But it's basically working out to the numbers we'd expect for a strength boost.
The 2pc Phaser/Disruptor boost isn't a strength boost.
Things like that...bug me - that lack of consistency.
Changes that have made it happen.
1) Omega Kinetic Sheering Rep Trait.
2) Hirogen Space Trait. Intimidating Strikes.
3) Hirogen Space Trait. Hot Pursuit.
4) Dyson Photon Bonus gear / grav torp
5) Undine Photon Bonus gear / Bio Torp
6) Rep trait overhaul... removing the extra shield heals (20s cool down, and less people slotting all the +shield regen/recharges) has been a MAJOR boon to torps.
Torps have always I found to be very underrated and the key to a great premade.... now I am finding them to be a very viable weapon in every PvP and PvE types.
All this! So true. I use all that minus the hot pursuit on my FPE, it works really well, and is more fun than a pure energy build by far.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
I am seeing a very disturbing trend lately, mostly in PVP but sometimes in PVE and its very lame. People using beams on ships that can equip DHC and have the turn to use it like escorts and destroyers.
That was pretty much all I needed to read before I new what sort of thread this is...
Comments
The most efficient killing builds quite frankly should rely on a mix of energy weapons and torpedoes, the fact that "all energy" builds has ever been king of the hill is a major failing.
That is what S8.5/9 has brought us.
Changes that have made it happen.
1) Omega Kinetic Sheering Rep Trait.
2) Hirogen Space Trait. Intimidating Strikes.
3) Hirogen Space Trait. Hot Pursuit.
4) Dyson Photon Bonus gear / grav torp
5) Undine Photon Bonus gear / Bio Torp
6) Rep trait overhaul... removing the extra shield heals (20s cool down, and less people slotting all the +shield regen/recharges) has been a MAJOR boon to torps.
Torps have always I found to be very underrated and the key to a great premade.... now I am finding them to be a very viable weapon in every PvP and PvE types.
for opening holes, DBB FAW just seems to make and keep open holes the best, giving torps the best chance to land. not near as high a DPS by themseves as DHCs or all single beams, but they are there for thier utility, not to be the killing strike. BO is still just a single hit, it wont keep a hole open well, same with CRF DHC. right now the way to go if you use torps is DBB+torp, or if you want to make BO your main spike DHCs+ DBB. all 3 is like you said very boff expensive, and has little or no flexibility outside a vap. the other 2 types can deal high pressure still
Before S9 I'd have agreed with you completely, but now? The only avenue of character progression that was left (rep tier passives) is gone, so all that's left is ship/gear creep. Games need some sort of character progression, and I think OP rep items is how Cryptic plans to keep character progression going in STO. Why that instead of rep passives? Who can know, maybe they feel they can control it better?
Does anyone really care what HOBO does? As someone said its up to people how they fly their ships.
My guess is, some people don't want to fight bug ships/ships with fleet armour consoles with high turn rate advantage so they just spam FAW instead of dying in a pointless dogfight. You simply don't like that people don't fit into your nice target profile and so want the game to change to suit you. Ha ha, unlucky.
Life goes on.
Thing is...new Rep is not higher Rep. It's not a case you have to have done previous Reps to do new Reps. There is no content progression. By having new Reps make previous Reps worthless...that's not progression.
I don't see other reps being worthless though.
The weapon set is good for escorts... but is it good for cruisers ? Same with the ship set... great aegis replacment its the mk xii aegis we been asking for forever... but its not a set for every ship build.
Even Sci... I would still argue the Grav torp from Dyson is better for a sci. (of course both together is fun).
Nukura has always been so so outside of the console that is popular on beam ships.
Same thing with romulan... its not that great from a PvP perspective... PvE folks still like the weapons and the beam that draws zero energy.
I think they have been going for flavors... and like anything new Undine is the new rep of the month so its popular... and its new so if there is some advantage to any of the gear it will take people some time to adjust. (I honestly don't see any major advantage... perhaps the torp with spread needs to be looked at... really though is it more powerful then a Spread 3 Dyson Grav torp, on a sci with partical and graviton maxed ?)
2pc Harness provides +7.6% strength damage to Plasma Energy Weapons.
2pc 8472 provides +7.5% bonus damage to Phaser and Disruptor.
It would be one thing if they went back through and made the various bonuses equal...that the 2pc Harness also provided a bonus damage boost rather than a strength boost...
Many 2pc sets that include a Projectile Weapon as one of the combinations to get the 2pc, provide no boost for the Projectile Weapon at all.
Nukara with Web Mines...
Romulan with Hyper-Plasma Torps...
Borg with the Omega Plasma Torp...
We look at the Voth and Undine Reps...things are changing. But they haven't gone back and done a balance pass on previous sets (whether Rep, Lobi, etc)...
A person could run 8472 content before ever toughing the other Reps...then they'll see things that - well, they're not only not even an upgrade, they're not even on the same level.
Flavor would be one thing if it were balanced flavor...but it's not. And that's before even getting into 4pc vs. 3pc shenanigans.
I am not convinced that undine is one set to rule them all... because its clearly not. At least that is how I see it. On the wording differnce of plasma strength and phaser dmg... is there really any difference I havn't slotted both sets to really look. I suspect its just a typography difference and not an actual difference.
I won't address ground stuff cause I could care less you could be right perhaps ground is out of wack beats me to be honest.
Torpedo wise though... no undine is fine. The torp is powerful but not OP. (many people testing it are basing things on shooting undine as well which the torp gets a +20% on.) To be honest in STFs and such I still find the Graviton torp to be far superior. (and yes the dyson set REALLY boosts photon much more then the undine set does) In fact the undine set also has part of its set bonus require you to slot a tac console.... and a uni console that is only so so in comparison to some of the lobi consoles that give +crit and crtd.
Not every newish set has been Uber... look at the hirogen Lobi set for example. It is terrible. Which is why I believe they are going for flavor and not one up all the time. (Again you may be right on the torp being bugged on spread... I would like to hear from one of the devs on that)
The previous sets provided only +X% base damage. They went out of their way (which I'm happy about as far as the tooltip goes) to make it clear that the Phaser/Disruptor 2pc is +X% bonus rather than base damage.
The 2pc Harness is like a +7.6% Tac Console.
The 2pc 8472 is like a +7.5% EPtW/APO/APA/etc.
Unless they've already changed the previous sets and I missed the rejoicing on the forums, then it's still working that way.
But we had the 2pc T'varo providing +10% bonus. The 2pc Obelisk providing a +10% bonus.
Meh, it gets into the inconsistency thing.
Would be nifty if S9.5 could straighten that out instead of having to wait for X2 or later.
edit: It's like the two Tet sets.
2pc Nukara Appropriated Munitions: +7.6% Tetryon Damage
2pc Apex Predator: +7.6% Tetryon Damage
With neither equipped, the listed DPV for one of his D-Tet Arrays is 835.6 damage.
Slot the 2pc Nukara, and it's 852.8 damage.
Slot the 2pc Apex instead, and it's likewise 852.8 damage.
Slot both 2pc, and it's 869.9 damage.
Base DPV on an Array is 100. 7.6% would be 7.6 damage. Modified by 104 Weapon Power, would take it to ~851.4...telling me that the 104 is not likely 104 or the 7.6 is actually more than 7.6 and just rounded. But it's basically working out to the numbers we'd expect for a strength boost.
The 2pc Phaser/Disruptor boost isn't a strength boost.
Things like that...bug me - that lack of consistency.
All this! So true. I use all that minus the hot pursuit on my FPE, it works really well, and is more fun than a pure energy build by far.
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That was pretty much all I needed to read before I new what sort of thread this is...
Jog-on PLZ
D,
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