You are right about companies doing everything for money, but you make it sound like they delibertly do stuff to TRIBBLE you off and if you leave, ha ha veterans we got your money, now what.
Seems to me, wouldn't you want to listen to your player base. Makeing ppl happy means more $$$. Pissing ppl off means less $$$. If i owned a gaming company and i heard 500 ppl left I wouldnt be thinking , oh we will just get 500 more, i would be thinking lets keep those 500 and add 500 more. They may not listen alot, but theres strong evidence that they do. I've read alot of post and i tell you, I see alot of DEV feedback. So that means there keeping there eyes on the forum to see what ppl think. If they didnt care you wouldn't see any of them post. You have to think more ppl more money. its as simple as that.
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Indeed, and that is the only damocles sword we hold. BUT, in small numbers a gaming company won't care, in LARGE numbers they will. But here's the kicker, good luck getting large numbers of players and it has to be across the entire spectrum from new players to veterans.
Anyways guys on another subject, I am not advocating total silence. What I am advocating is CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM. One player said they'd rather hear shouting than silence. But which is more powerful, total and complete silence or shouting. If the forums just came to a halt because we were so outraged trust me that would get more attention.
But like I said, had many others started up threads stating "We are not happy about ABC that PWE has done. Instead of having done that, why not do DEF or XYZ."
And yes I know for the test server people went on and on about it and offered ideas from here to eternity. If PWE didn't do it, well it was their judgement it wouldn't work.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
FOOD for Thought: Gaming Companies are in the BUSINESS of "Entertainment". So, They get the most $ from repeat customers who (hopefully), ENJOY the game/service being provided enough to come back and shell out a little or a lot of money to keep repeat the experience. Sure-fire way to kill your cash cow? Refuse to Listen to what makes your repeat customers Happy; or lack of innovation in creating/re-creating an enjoyable experience. Funny how greed works isn't it? :eek:
Face it guys, you were offered ZERO gaarantee at things would stay as they were and you were infact warned that it could change at anytime and PWE or any other gaming company can do so as they see fit regardless of what we players say and or think.
I mean Veterans are throwing around how long they have been here and yadda yadda yadda. So what. GAMING COMPANIES DO NOT CARE. All they care about is $$$. So what if 500 people walk off this game. Be 500 more suckers with open wallets that PWE can suck dry.
When you buy something at the store, the back of the product tells you about its contents. United States has a series of consumer protection laws, which prohibit 'bait and switch' and 'false advertising' tactics. Even though Cryptic advertised the new changes, veteran consumers bought into the game based upon the advertising for Season Five, Six, Seven, and Eight. If Season nine was an optional upgrade, consumers would have a choose in which product to purchase.
Adobe Creative Could services is an example. If someone does not like the latest version of InDesign and Photoshop, the person is allowed to use an older version. Adobe didn't use 'bait and switch' tactics, which forces their consumers to upgrade. You can still use Adobe Creative Suite 1-6. You can also use the first version of the Cloud Products.
Look at "Star Wars: The Old Republic" as another example. As each season is introduced, the consumer has the option to opt out. BioWare may slightly tweak core game mechanics; however, the magnitude of the changes will be minimal.
After seeing how drastic things have changed, I have decided to indefinitely uninstall "Star Trek: Online". Within a few days from now, I will be taking an indefinite hiatus away from the forums. "Star Trek: Online - Season Nine" no longer represents the game, which was originally advertised in previous seasons. Unless a previous version of the game is made available, the version in which I purchased, I do not see myself quickly returning to "Star Trek: Online".
I do not recognize "Star Trek: Online - Season Nine" as the product I bought.
Going to quote this post you made in the comments over at PO:
I almost want to say Cryptic should be getting a more mature crowd to the game instead of annoying some players. Making them want to leave especially lifetime subscribers or people who subscribe.
It seems Season 8 to 9 was the seasons of Nerfing. In my obversation, STO seem less populated. Other people might have different views but I am talking about my observation.
As a Lifetime Subscriber, this change isn't going to make me leave, as I don't mind the change. Maybe there will be some LTS and other subscribers who will leave, but to say that as a general thing isn't really a good idea, since you may claim to know that many are going to leave, but there's no proof that many are going to leave.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
And yes I know for the test server people went on and on about it and offered ideas from here to eternity. If PWE didn't do it, well it was their judgement it wouldn't work.
Possibly.
Or, the long standing culture of stubborness and unwillingness at Cryptic to react to constructive feedback kicked in.
I, as I'm sure you do, remember the valentines day massacre patch.
Very similar situation, huge amounts of constructive feedback were given, which was summarily ignored and a badly broken and ill conceived patch went live.
We were offered an apology after that, and a commitment to not be as pig headed in future.
In my view, Cryptic need to be reminded from time to time that what works in the conference room in California may not work on holodeck.
To cover all the bases you want both spike and pressure DPS.
New customers are spike, and veterans pressure.
Don't think I'd say either is more important than the other. I think we need both equally.
Sort of. I'm not saying that there's a huge difference in importance. Just that, ultimately, as long as they are attracting and keeping new players, keeping people who have been playing for longer the happiest group is not the priority.
The priority is making sure that the game is better for new people, which means in MMOs making sure that there's not a huge difference in power between someone who just started and someone who has been here for years. This may mean taking away some of the things that veterans have worked for, the calculated risk is that what your changing won't make more of them leave than new people you're managing to keep.
In the case of this rep change, they are going to be adding more reps to the game. Just keeping all the passives active would mean that those who have been here for years would eventually, just from reps, be a lot more powerful than new players. New players would face months of rep grinding to even get on par with these people, on top of the normal gear grind that you need to do (which may or may not be a rep grind). With this change, they have decreased the amount of grind that new players have to catch up in power to existing people who have been here for longer. So because this change benefits new players, and doesn't seem to have pissed off enough existing players that they are still not making money, so the change is going ahead.
Sort of. I'm not saying that there's a huge difference in importance. Just that, ultimately, as long as they are attracting and keeping new players, keeping people who have been playing for longer the happiest group is not the priority.
The priority is making sure that the game is better for new people, which means in MMOs making sure that there's not a huge difference in power between someone who just started and someone who has been here for years. This may mean taking away some of the things that veterans have worked for, the calculated risk is that what your changing won't make more of them leave than new people you're managing to keep.
In the case of this rep change, they are going to be adding more reps to the game. Just keeping all the passives active would mean that those who have been here for years would eventually, just from reps, be a lot more powerful than new players. New players would face months of rep grinding to even get on par with these people, on top of the normal gear grind that you need to do (which may or may not be a rep grind). With this change, they have decreased the amount of grind that new players have to catch up in power to existing people who have been here for longer. So because this change benefits new players, and doesn't seem to have pissed off enough existing players that they are still not making money, so the change is going ahead.
Both groups are important, one is just more so.
Well, we can quibble about the relative importance of two groups we both concede are important, but I can't see the point.
To me, this is just a reasonable amount of divergence between two honestly held opinions.
We're on the same page, albeit perhaps not the same paragraph.
However, my analysis of the reputation changes is that, while the intention to narrow the gap between new and vet players is important......this change does not achieve that in a meaningful way.
Actually, there is a caveat to that. I susupect that, on ground missions, it actually works.
However, in space it does not narrow the gap, indeed it may widen it.
It may well work if one is intending to simply add more and more reputation tracks ad infinitum. It may address future power creep in a very specific and narrow sense.
However, what with the ridiculous Undine lockbox and all, power creep now has not been seriously effected.
If controlling power creep is an actual objective held by Cryptic, then they will need to fundamentally rethink some of the paradigms in the game. Thus far, they have signally failed to tackle the issue. And, in my opinion, thats not a strategy that will ultimately enable the attractiion and retention of new players they so clearly crave.
Or, the long standing culture of stubborness and unwillingness at Cryptic to react to constructive feedback kicked in.
I, as I'm sure you do, remember the valentines day massacre patch.
Very similar situation, huge amounts of constructive feedback were given, which was summarily ignored and a badly broken and ill conceived patch went live.
We were offered an apology after that, and a commitment to not be as pig headed in future.
In my view, Cryptic need to be reminded from time to time that what works in the conference room in California may not work on holodeck.
It's a pity this has to happen so regulary.
Hey I never said they were never going to be at fault. Like you and me, PWE is run by human beings, and they can TRIBBLE up by the numbers. And also like you said they would admit when they have screwed up. When they are not admitting that, that should be an indication they like what they have done whether we like it or not.
I mean, i have parts of the patch I do not like, and kindly offer remedies like for the new kits, there is literally no way to buy even white module at the EC vendors, kind of like they forgot about players not in fleets who don't have access to all this wonderful stuff or don't have a lot of Dil hanging around.
Nor do I agree with the Dil nerfs I've read about. On the Dil nerf since I have nothing really to offer as a counter idea, I just keep my mouth shut on that one.
But hey this is by points of view. Like anakin screamed (yes I am bringing in a SW reference cause I can't think of a ST reference) "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
I also tend to think they did indeed give us too few rep abilities active at one time 5-8 would of been better IMHO, hopefully that will be rasied sometime in the future. I can say those things without ranting and raving like a madman.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
When they are not admitting that, that should be an indication they like what they have done whether we like it or not.
I think the line I've isolated is where you and I part company.
As you say, Cryptic are as human as the rest of us. Mistakes happen.
However, the corrolary to that is that, certainly in parts, we're as smart as Cryptic are.
What I mean by that is that, sometimes, Cryptic are wrong and we are right.
I'm afraid that cryptics record with putting their hand up to errors made does not encourage me to believe that they are good at it.
I've seen so many examples where their proxies are defending the indefensible, until they're forced into a corner and either reluctently apologise or, more often, fix it somewhat without comment.
If cryptic were to take a leaf out of Shon's book in the ltest FE I'd be extremely happy.
Too often cryptic are the diplomat, trying to say something without actually saying it.
Shon cuts across the BS and tells it simply. We got it wrong.
That kind of honesty helps the KDF to lower their barriers to cooperation.
Too often the fora are like that little piece of narrative from the FE, only without Shons intervention.
Cryptic (the Federation) are confronted with evidence of their errors, the diplomats are dispatched to quiet things down while admitting no responsibility, and the angry Gorns get more and more frustrated at the double speak.
Heh. My main is actually old as dirt. Came back after a lonnnnng hiatus a bit ago.
Still a casual though and with only 3 caps who all have Dyson and Rom rep finished with the main just finishing up Omega. The change rubs me the wrong way but I deal with it by spending more time in other MMO's that have/will have a sub and just F2P'ing this one.
Honestly, I agree with the OP's post on its face but the overall tone of their posts in other threads telling people to "grow up" and "get over it" as well as their need to start their own thread that basically says the same thing like they're doing us some sort of public service by giving community members who are voicing displeasure with a dev decision a pep talk about the realities of life...well, it leads me to the point I originally made, respectful of not: "criers crying about others crying".
Heh. My main is actually old as dirt. Came back after a lonnnnng hiatus a bit ago.
Still a casual though and with only 3 caps who all have Dyson and Rom rep finished with the main just finishing up Omega. The change rubs me the wrong way but I deal with it by spending more time in other MMO's that have/will have a sub and just F2P'ing this one.
Honestly, I agree with the OP's post on its face but the overall tone of their posts in other threads telling people to "grow up" and "get over it" as well as their need to start their own thread that basically says the same thing like they're doing us some sort of public service by giving community members who are voicing displeasure with a dev decision a pep talk about the realities of life...well, it leads me to the point I originally made, respectful of not: "criers crying about others crying".
I DID buy a Scimitar though! :O
Hey lm a blunt object, just ask my wife But honestly it's not me whining about whiners. It's ATTPEMTING to wake people up to the cold hard facts of online gaming.
If others took at as whining.well sorry. I guess i was on the high horse but it's one of my peet peevs unless you declare your simply ranting that if you're going to whine, moan and rail about something, offer up an alternative instead of just screaming "I did all of this, I am entitled."
We are as players entitled to play the game, and come on the forums to discuss stuff with other players and offer feedback. That's about it. We are not entited to jack TRIBBLE.
And hell we want to push PWE too far, they could always pull a City of Heros.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
To the OP: (I haven't read any of the thread except the 1st post)
<one sec, pulling on my Crankypants. Ok.>
I'm not sure I love, hate, or am indifferent to any of the new changes, but I know this:
Regardless of any EULA I agreed to, I maintain my right to complain about anything I don't like. I did not sign away any rights to say whatever I want about anything in the game. And if the devs/etc. don't like it, they can ban me, aok, and I'll go somewhere else and spout.
Everyone has the right (and some might say the responsibility) to voice their opinions and concerns about the game for whatever reason, and sometimes, their statements end up improving the game.
In any case, quit telling people to shut up and go away. You're not the boss of me, or anyone here. Don't like the 'kvetching'? DON'T READ IT.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
I remember the rage when Blizzard released the expansion for Diablo 2.... they changed the basic functionality of lightning mastery so greatly that peeps whined about how it "ruined" their builds.... then they got over it and life continued, or they became one of the crazy wishes-they-were-elite who tried to pretend that the base game was better than the expansion... Which is was NOT... but explaining that would require listing all the feature changes. :P
I remember the rage when Blizzard released the expansion for Diablo 2.... they changed the basic functionality of lightning mastery so greatly that peeps whined about how it "ruined" their builds.... then they got over it and life continued, or they became one of the crazy wishes-they-were-elite who tried to pretend that the base game was better than the expansion... Which is was NOT... but explaining that would require listing all the feature changes. :P
This is pretty much every experience I have had with any change any MMO has ever added.
Ok seen about what 10 threads on this and on a few threads some have gigantic egos and a chip on their sholder. Seeming to think they have a right to have the game their way and it should go back and they are losing all of this.
Wake up and realize something. Every single one of us signed that EULA/TOS to play this game. Ya know that box that popped up when you first started playing and most I am SURE just clicked X than hit ok without even bothering to read it.
Basically first line in ANY EULA/TOS in ANY gaming company on ANY game is that the owning company owns this game lock stock and barrel and can make any change at ANY time and are not responsible for handing out restitution.
Face it guys, you were offered ZERO gaarantee at things would stay as they were and you were infact warned that it could change at anytime and PWE or any other gaming company can do so as they see fit regardless of what we players say and or think.
I mean Veterans are throwing around how long they have been here and yadda yadda yadda. So what. GAMING COMPANIES DO NOT CARE. All they care about is $$$. So what if 500 people walk off this game. Be 500 more suckers with open wallets that PWE can suck dry.
Something many of you just need to get through your skulls and past that GIGANTIC ego. GAMING COMPANIES DO NOT CARE NOR WILL THEY. It's not just PWE. EA, Big Point, Wargamming, pick a gaming company. I've had to make this argument on gaming forums time and again.
You can either keep throwing temper tantrums and think the gaming company is going to take you seriously(which they won't), quit the game(which they won't care about), or suck it up and keep playing(which again the gaming company won'lt give two craps about, but it only benefits you).
Them are your options. Also, be advised none of us own a damn thing. Do we own liscencing? Tittles or any other mumbo jumbo. We OWN NOTHING.
You can all deal with this immoable fact, or you can all stop playing online games and stick to consoles. But hell, even consoles are moving this way.
Welcome to the new world, either deal with it, or stop playing online games.
as far as what they can and cant do, your 100% right..
however, your also wrong.. shure some people take it to a level that is ridiculous. but a lot of people are voicing their concerns and frustration to let cryptic know there is a possible problem..
cryptic can keep making the game their way, but in the end, when there is only the 15 or so fanboys left to play the game, they lose..
don't be so quick to jump all over someone, like you said, they have a point of view that might not be yours, but chances are, a lot more people than you want to admit feel the same way as them.
what we have to remember, is that the business that cryptic is in, is 100% customer based.. they are not making some nut or bolt that if it doesn't sell in 1 place, will in another.. they are creating a game that needs the customers to play it to make money. the sheer lack of a customer service department is a big problem in my eyes.
also, the eula is not a bible.. it is a last ditch effort incase of legal problems.. it does not mean that they do not have to listen to, or try to make the game better for portions of the player base.
People have some say to voice their opinions, and what they feel is bad, or good in the game
My problem are the people who take things to an extreme.
they either hate on everything no matter what and there is no reasoning.
Or people are blind to see there is a problem, and think everything is just fine the way it is, and Cryptic can't do wrong.
Fairly said.
I don't think, with the possible exception of the grindaversary, Cryptic have ever released a season or event that is wholly awesome or wholly horrible.
There are usually a lot of ambitions being realised in each one and some hit and some don't.
so long as Cryptic can tell the one from the other and, sadly thats not a given, things work out ok.
People have some say to voice their opinions, and what they feel is bad, or good in the game
My problem are the people who take things to an extreme.
they either hate on everything no matter what and there is no reasoning.
Or people are blind to see there is a problem, and think everything is just fine the way it is, and Cryptic can't do wrong.
Hey I never said PWE was faultless and could do no wrong. Hell I think they messed up givin gus only 4/4/4 for usable traits ground space and other traits. I've said that it should of been 6/6/4.
But one does not need to come in ranting and raving like a maniac and just expect an entire business model to change simply because they disagree with how business is done and threating "I'll take my money and go elsewhere!" Guess what 1 person, game company won't care.
when you get thousands talking that way, then you've got somebody's attention. And concerns which are valid can be told CALMLY, not like they are having a 5 year old temper tantrum.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Hey I never said PWE was faultless and could do no wrong. Hell I think they messed up givin gus only 4/4/4 for usable traits ground space and other traits. I've said that it should of been 6/6/4.
But one does not need to come in ranting and raving like a maniac and just expect an entire business model to change simply because they disagree with how business is done and threating "I'll take my money and go elsewhere!" Guess what 1 person, game company won't care.
when you get thousands talking that way, then you've got somebody's attention. And concerns which are valid can be told CALMLY, not like they are having a 5 year old temper tantrum.
I usually try to be reasonable in my criticisms.
I doubt I'm always succesful, but i do try.
However, every now and then Cryptic do something that is, in my eyes, so heinous that the language used to describe it must, needs, to be stronger.
The grindaversary was one such thing. I considered it, and still do consider it, a fantastically incompetent and disrespectful move on cryptics part.
Much more recently, I have used words like 'abomination' and 'disgusted' in reference to Cryptics decision to offer player controlled bioships in the Undine lockbox.
Setting aside the merit or not of my actual objections, the point is that my language needs to describe not just the frequency of my discontent but also the magnitude.
Thus, i must respectfully reserve the right to use language that may, to your ears, sound like a tantrum or ranting and raving like a maniac.
To do other is to is fail to communicate what i actually think or feel.
And that, in and of itself, is in my view a bad thing.
However, every now and then Cryptic do something that is, in my eyes, so heinous that the language used to describe it must, needs, to be stronger.
The grindaversary was one such thing. I considered it, and still do consider it, a fantastically incompetent and disrespectful move on cryptics part.
Much more recently, I have used words like 'abomination' and 'disgusted' in reference to Cryptics decision to offer player controlled bioships in the Undine lockbox.
Setting aside the merit or not of my actual objections, the point is that my language needs to describe not just the frequency of my discontent but also the magnitude.
Thus, i must respectfully reserve the right to use language that may, to your ears, sound like a tantrum or ranting and raving like a maniac.
To do other is to is fail to communicate what i actually think or feel.
And that, in and of itself, is in my view a bad thing.
And that can be easily done calmly and effiecntly without giving the appearance of shouting into the wind.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
And that can be easily done calmly and effiecntly without giving the appearance of shouting into the wind.
OK, give me an example of what you mean.
Because for years I've used language to convey meaning, i know we all have but I also worked as a communicator, writer and speaker for a lot of my 50 odd years.
Put yourself in my shoes.
You think the inclusion of bioships in the lockboxes are an insult to anyone who cares about the IP and seem to be evidence of people making decisions at Cryptic who don't give a damn about it.
Thats how I feel about it.
What one word would you use to describe the decision that wasn't abomination or disgusting?
Comments
"Criers crying about others crying".
*stage bow*
Thank you Mr Spike.
Please don't forget to buy your Oberth
Seems to me, wouldn't you want to listen to your player base. Makeing ppl happy means more $$$. Pissing ppl off means less $$$. If i owned a gaming company and i heard 500 ppl left I wouldnt be thinking , oh we will just get 500 more, i would be thinking lets keep those 500 and add 500 more. They may not listen alot, but theres strong evidence that they do. I've read alot of post and i tell you, I see alot of DEV feedback. So that means there keeping there eyes on the forum to see what ppl think. If they didnt care you wouldn't see any of them post. You have to think more ppl more money. its as simple as that.
Good thing there is a lawyer in the white house or we all would be well, this a family values entrainment copyrighted commodity, so do do what.
ohe "really it was never profitable", let me go grab the econ text books and see if we ...
owe wow the server is back up, later:rolleyes:
waybe one day they will let me have my avatar also, hot stuff.
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
to put it politely...
Indeed, and that is the only damocles sword we hold. BUT, in small numbers a gaming company won't care, in LARGE numbers they will. But here's the kicker, good luck getting large numbers of players and it has to be across the entire spectrum from new players to veterans.
Anyways guys on another subject, I am not advocating total silence. What I am advocating is CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM. One player said they'd rather hear shouting than silence. But which is more powerful, total and complete silence or shouting. If the forums just came to a halt because we were so outraged trust me that would get more attention.
But like I said, had many others started up threads stating "We are not happy about ABC that PWE has done. Instead of having done that, why not do DEF or XYZ."
And yes I know for the test server people went on and on about it and offered ideas from here to eternity. If PWE didn't do it, well it was their judgement it wouldn't work.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
FOOD for Thought: Gaming Companies are in the BUSINESS of "Entertainment". So, They get the most $ from repeat customers who (hopefully), ENJOY the game/service being provided enough to come back and shell out a little or a lot of money to keep repeat the experience. Sure-fire way to kill your cash cow? Refuse to Listen to what makes your repeat customers Happy; or lack of innovation in creating/re-creating an enjoyable experience. Funny how greed works isn't it? :eek:
Adobe Creative Could services is an example. If someone does not like the latest version of InDesign and Photoshop, the person is allowed to use an older version. Adobe didn't use 'bait and switch' tactics, which forces their consumers to upgrade. You can still use Adobe Creative Suite 1-6. You can also use the first version of the Cloud Products.
Look at "Star Wars: The Old Republic" as another example. As each season is introduced, the consumer has the option to opt out. BioWare may slightly tweak core game mechanics; however, the magnitude of the changes will be minimal.
After seeing how drastic things have changed, I have decided to indefinitely uninstall "Star Trek: Online". Within a few days from now, I will be taking an indefinite hiatus away from the forums. "Star Trek: Online - Season Nine" no longer represents the game, which was originally advertised in previous seasons. Unless a previous version of the game is made available, the version in which I purchased, I do not see myself quickly returning to "Star Trek: Online".
I do not recognize "Star Trek: Online - Season Nine" as the product I bought.
...and, I do not care what other people think.
Wrong is wrong.
Period.
Ego is OP. Plz nerf.:D
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
NOOO! BAN EGO!!!:cool:
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Possibly.
Or, the long standing culture of stubborness and unwillingness at Cryptic to react to constructive feedback kicked in.
I, as I'm sure you do, remember the valentines day massacre patch.
Very similar situation, huge amounts of constructive feedback were given, which was summarily ignored and a badly broken and ill conceived patch went live.
We were offered an apology after that, and a commitment to not be as pig headed in future.
In my view, Cryptic need to be reminded from time to time that what works in the conference room in California may not work on holodeck.
It's a pity this has to happen so regulary.
The priority is making sure that the game is better for new people, which means in MMOs making sure that there's not a huge difference in power between someone who just started and someone who has been here for years. This may mean taking away some of the things that veterans have worked for, the calculated risk is that what your changing won't make more of them leave than new people you're managing to keep.
In the case of this rep change, they are going to be adding more reps to the game. Just keeping all the passives active would mean that those who have been here for years would eventually, just from reps, be a lot more powerful than new players. New players would face months of rep grinding to even get on par with these people, on top of the normal gear grind that you need to do (which may or may not be a rep grind). With this change, they have decreased the amount of grind that new players have to catch up in power to existing people who have been here for longer. So because this change benefits new players, and doesn't seem to have pissed off enough existing players that they are still not making money, so the change is going ahead.
Both groups are important, one is just more so.
Well, we can quibble about the relative importance of two groups we both concede are important, but I can't see the point.
To me, this is just a reasonable amount of divergence between two honestly held opinions.
We're on the same page, albeit perhaps not the same paragraph.
However, my analysis of the reputation changes is that, while the intention to narrow the gap between new and vet players is important......this change does not achieve that in a meaningful way.
Actually, there is a caveat to that. I susupect that, on ground missions, it actually works.
However, in space it does not narrow the gap, indeed it may widen it.
It may well work if one is intending to simply add more and more reputation tracks ad infinitum. It may address future power creep in a very specific and narrow sense.
However, what with the ridiculous Undine lockbox and all, power creep now has not been seriously effected.
If controlling power creep is an actual objective held by Cryptic, then they will need to fundamentally rethink some of the paradigms in the game. Thus far, they have signally failed to tackle the issue. And, in my opinion, thats not a strategy that will ultimately enable the attractiion and retention of new players they so clearly crave.
Hey I never said they were never going to be at fault. Like you and me, PWE is run by human beings, and they can TRIBBLE up by the numbers. And also like you said they would admit when they have screwed up. When they are not admitting that, that should be an indication they like what they have done whether we like it or not.
I mean, i have parts of the patch I do not like, and kindly offer remedies like for the new kits, there is literally no way to buy even white module at the EC vendors, kind of like they forgot about players not in fleets who don't have access to all this wonderful stuff or don't have a lot of Dil hanging around.
Nor do I agree with the Dil nerfs I've read about. On the Dil nerf since I have nothing really to offer as a counter idea, I just keep my mouth shut on that one.
But hey this is by points of view. Like anakin screamed (yes I am bringing in a SW reference cause I can't think of a ST reference) "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
I also tend to think they did indeed give us too few rep abilities active at one time 5-8 would of been better IMHO, hopefully that will be rasied sometime in the future. I can say those things without ranting and raving like a madman.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I think the line I've isolated is where you and I part company.
As you say, Cryptic are as human as the rest of us. Mistakes happen.
However, the corrolary to that is that, certainly in parts, we're as smart as Cryptic are.
What I mean by that is that, sometimes, Cryptic are wrong and we are right.
I'm afraid that cryptics record with putting their hand up to errors made does not encourage me to believe that they are good at it.
I've seen so many examples where their proxies are defending the indefensible, until they're forced into a corner and either reluctently apologise or, more often, fix it somewhat without comment.
If cryptic were to take a leaf out of Shon's book in the ltest FE I'd be extremely happy.
Too often cryptic are the diplomat, trying to say something without actually saying it.
Shon cuts across the BS and tells it simply. We got it wrong.
That kind of honesty helps the KDF to lower their barriers to cooperation.
Too often the fora are like that little piece of narrative from the FE, only without Shons intervention.
Cryptic (the Federation) are confronted with evidence of their errors, the diplomats are dispatched to quiet things down while admitting no responsibility, and the angry Gorns get more and more frustrated at the double speak.
More Shon, less ineffective diplomacy.
Heh. My main is actually old as dirt. Came back after a lonnnnng hiatus a bit ago.
Still a casual though and with only 3 caps who all have Dyson and Rom rep finished with the main just finishing up Omega. The change rubs me the wrong way but I deal with it by spending more time in other MMO's that have/will have a sub and just F2P'ing this one.
Honestly, I agree with the OP's post on its face but the overall tone of their posts in other threads telling people to "grow up" and "get over it" as well as their need to start their own thread that basically says the same thing like they're doing us some sort of public service by giving community members who are voicing displeasure with a dev decision a pep talk about the realities of life...well, it leads me to the point I originally made, respectful of not: "criers crying about others crying".
I DID buy a Scimitar though! :O
Hey lm a blunt object, just ask my wife
If others took at as whining.well sorry. I guess i was on the high horse but it's one of my peet peevs unless you declare your simply ranting that if you're going to whine, moan and rail about something, offer up an alternative instead of just screaming "I did all of this, I am entitled."
We are as players entitled to play the game, and come on the forums to discuss stuff with other players and offer feedback. That's about it. We are not entited to jack TRIBBLE.
And hell we want to push PWE too far, they could always pull a City of Heros.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
<one sec, pulling on my Crankypants. Ok.>
I'm not sure I love, hate, or am indifferent to any of the new changes, but I know this:
Regardless of any EULA I agreed to, I maintain my right to complain about anything I don't like. I did not sign away any rights to say whatever I want about anything in the game. And if the devs/etc. don't like it, they can ban me, aok, and I'll go somewhere else and spout.
Everyone has the right (and some might say the responsibility) to voice their opinions and concerns about the game for whatever reason, and sometimes, their statements end up improving the game.
In any case, quit telling people to shut up and go away. You're not the boss of me, or anyone here. Don't like the 'kvetching'? DON'T READ IT.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
My character Tsin'xing
as far as what they can and cant do, your 100% right..
however, your also wrong.. shure some people take it to a level that is ridiculous. but a lot of people are voicing their concerns and frustration to let cryptic know there is a possible problem..
cryptic can keep making the game their way, but in the end, when there is only the 15 or so fanboys left to play the game, they lose..
don't be so quick to jump all over someone, like you said, they have a point of view that might not be yours, but chances are, a lot more people than you want to admit feel the same way as them.
what we have to remember, is that the business that cryptic is in, is 100% customer based.. they are not making some nut or bolt that if it doesn't sell in 1 place, will in another.. they are creating a game that needs the customers to play it to make money. the sheer lack of a customer service department is a big problem in my eyes.
also, the eula is not a bible.. it is a last ditch effort incase of legal problems.. it does not mean that they do not have to listen to, or try to make the game better for portions of the player base.
My problem are the people who take things to an extreme.
they either hate on everything no matter what and there is no reasoning.
Or people are blind to see there is a problem, and think everything is just fine the way it is, and Cryptic can't do wrong.
Fairly said.
I don't think, with the possible exception of the grindaversary, Cryptic have ever released a season or event that is wholly awesome or wholly horrible.
There are usually a lot of ambitions being realised in each one and some hit and some don't.
so long as Cryptic can tell the one from the other and, sadly thats not a given, things work out ok.
Hey I never said PWE was faultless and could do no wrong. Hell I think they messed up givin gus only 4/4/4 for usable traits ground space and other traits. I've said that it should of been 6/6/4.
But one does not need to come in ranting and raving like a maniac and just expect an entire business model to change simply because they disagree with how business is done and threating "I'll take my money and go elsewhere!" Guess what 1 person, game company won't care.
when you get thousands talking that way, then you've got somebody's attention. And concerns which are valid can be told CALMLY, not like they are having a 5 year old temper tantrum.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I have your metrics right here Cryptic/PWE.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
I usually try to be reasonable in my criticisms.
I doubt I'm always succesful, but i do try.
However, every now and then Cryptic do something that is, in my eyes, so heinous that the language used to describe it must, needs, to be stronger.
The grindaversary was one such thing. I considered it, and still do consider it, a fantastically incompetent and disrespectful move on cryptics part.
Much more recently, I have used words like 'abomination' and 'disgusted' in reference to Cryptics decision to offer player controlled bioships in the Undine lockbox.
Setting aside the merit or not of my actual objections, the point is that my language needs to describe not just the frequency of my discontent but also the magnitude.
Thus, i must respectfully reserve the right to use language that may, to your ears, sound like a tantrum or ranting and raving like a maniac.
To do other is to is fail to communicate what i actually think or feel.
And that, in and of itself, is in my view a bad thing.
And that can be easily done calmly and effiecntly without giving the appearance of shouting into the wind.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
OK, give me an example of what you mean.
Because for years I've used language to convey meaning, i know we all have but I also worked as a communicator, writer and speaker for a lot of my 50 odd years.
Put yourself in my shoes.
You think the inclusion of bioships in the lockboxes are an insult to anyone who cares about the IP and seem to be evidence of people making decisions at Cryptic who don't give a damn about it.
Thats how I feel about it.
What one word would you use to describe the decision that wasn't abomination or disgusting?