On a similar note, it is also possible to use the Tachyon Detection Field console while cloaked from certain ships.
While the precedent for players not being affected by certain abilities (friend/foe thing) has obviously been set (GW comes to mind right off the back)...one is still left with the question of whether conducting the Tachyon scan while cloaked in the Dyson Zone is working as intended or is a bug - and thus - what that would mean for the TDF console.
It only seems to work on T'varo with the EBC that lets you use science abilities from cloak
Best fix for it would be for the console ability to be disabled while you are cloaked, and to stop working if you enter cloak. That is how it works with regular cloaking console on (eg) Defiant. An alternative for EBC in particular would be to allow the console to be used, but to make the ship visiable during the scan, which is how most science abilities work with the EBC.
It only seems to work on T'varo with the EBC that lets you use science abilities from cloak
Best fix for it would be for the console ability to be disabled while you are cloaked, and to stop working if you enter cloak. That is how it works with regular cloaking console on (eg) Defiant. An alternative for EBC in particular would be to allow the console to be used, but to make the ship visiable during the scan, which is how most science abilities work with the EBC.
Yeah, I know it's just the T'varo - it's been brought up since shortly after LoR. Bit of a play on words, so to speak...certain ships: T'varo Retrofit, Fleet T'varo Retrofit...two versions of the "same" ship creating the image of it being more than one ship...yadda, yadda, yadda.
But yeah, it gets into the "no counter" argument. There's no counter if you can't see the ship that can see you...but if you can see the ship that can see you, you can avoid said ship - thus a counter. After that, it just gets into the console switcheroo issue otherwise.
BTW, the TDF buff can be SNB'd - just like Sensor Scan can...but again, that gets into the issue of being able to see them to do that...which you can't with a Fed'Varo.
I think that's more in line with what I have said in the past (it's along the lines of what I say in general) - address the bugs and questionable working as intended items first...then take a look at what/if any adjustments need to be made from there.
Its just really bothersome bc the Vapers and most other cloakers on the klink side aren't looking to snoop but do damage to unsuspecting Feds. So all the QQ is bc they're vulnerable to it.
Well some Feds aren't so helpless now and the TDF console doesn't do much.. Its the stacking with EPTA, SS, deflector, Aux battery doffs and Sensor consoles that really matters. So Klinks cant detect as far... But they can do it... But how many are willing to strip down their builds to go cloak hunting? Probably not many so its QQ for a nerf.
It's not Feds vs. KDF...hasn't been for almost a year. Romulans...they play both sides. The "QQ" as you call it, for some is simply about it was one thing when the Fed side had almost no cloak outside of the Defiant/Gal-X. Now they've got Romulans as well. The situation has changed. Even if one went from a story/narrative perspective...the Feds developed improved cloak detection to deal with the KDF...so uh, the KDF wouldn't do that to deal with the Romulans? Tada...fix the bugs/exploits with it and share it. Problem solved...
edit: Should note - they have stated that [SciCdr] and 2pc MACO reducing the CD on the TDF is WAI.
the tachyon detection field gives too much boost and butthurt to me when used
please nerf this asap i beg of ye
(or give it to the kdf too)
dammmn feds
LMAO Complete Butthurt at it's Finest Deal with it cause i doubt there gonna Nerf it
just because your Whinning about it cause you got beaten down by somebody who
was using it,learn to find a way to counter it or don't play PvP then.:rolleyes:
Majority of Feds only did FvF so after LoR it became more of a priority for Feds to finally deal with cloakers. I still did FvK but mainly with a team.
I mainly did FvK when I had Feds to avoid the *mades pugstomping in FvF.
heh, actually got vaped a few times earlier - was fun for a change
...but I can see the point some folks that play KDF or K-Rom are making about the TDF inequality.
"Feds w/o much cloak in the least. Feds have TDF. KDF w/ a bunch of cloak. KDF have no TDF."
That's one thing.
"Feds still w/o much cloak in the least. 6 boats that can console cloak. F-Roms w/ more Battle Cloak than the KDF. (30 Rom vs. 6 KDF Battle Cloak). Feds and F-Roms have TDF. KDF and K-Roms w/ more cloak still than Feds and F-Roms (36 Feds/F-Rom vs. 69 KDF/K-Rom). Works out to 30 BC vs. 36 BC. KDF still do not have TDF?"
That's another thing.
KvK queues definitely got worse after LoR. Even FvK queues got worse. I fell asleep more than once waiting on FvK to pop...meh.
It's kind of funny, imho, that there are basically two "threads" going on at the moment.
Feds feel AA is OP.
KDF feel TDF is OP.
Some Feds just want AA nerfed. They don't want it shared. Sharing it would just make it worse for them...for the reasons that they're complaining about it.
Some KDF are fine with TDF being shared...no nerf needed. Course, then you get into the discussion about whether AA should be included in the trade for TDF. Some of that's a scab they don't want picked based on other consoles that have been shared. Some if it is probably the same reason that some Feds don't want it shared. Which gets into why some Feds don't want TDF shared...more or less.
The AA <---> TDF swap's been suggested since LoR...heck, even before then.
If anyone needed an example about why there are so many balance issues, look no further. Instead of looking for a way to adapt himself and his playstyle to better deal with his opponent, the op is going to cry to the devs and ask for them to make the game easier for him. Players lime this are the exact reason that games that have different factions with different abilities and technology lose all their potential to be great, because the playerbase needs it all to be equal rather than having to work around some distinct disadvantages. Gods forbid that you actually have to think to win in a game. And to the op, if you want better cloak detection, quit your Klingon character and get a fed. You were perfectly happy with how it all worked when you were the only one who could cloak. But now that romulan ships have it better you, now its a problem right? Now that you're getting a taste of it, you can't handle it. Players like you disgust me, and kill games that try to be creative with how things work.
If anyone needed an example about why there are so many balance issues, look no further. Instead of looking for a way to adapt himself and his playstyle to better deal with his opponent, the op is going to cry to the devs and ask for them to make the game easier for him. Players lime this are the exact reason that games that have different factions with different abilities and technology lose all their potential to be great, because the playerbase needs it all to be equal rather than having to work around some distinct disadvantages. Gods forbid that you actually have to think to win in a game. And to the op, if you want better cloak detection, quit your Klingon character and get a fed. You were perfectly happy with how it all worked when you were the only one who could cloak. But now that romulan ships have it better you, now its a problem right? Now that you're getting a taste of it, you can't handle it. Players like you disgust me, and kill games that try to be creative with how things work.
once we have joined cues (coming real soon) I image we may have some more klink players pvping due to the klinks free cloaks, better elite weapons, AA, and drain pets
Would have nothing to do horrible FvK queues because of Feds hiding in FvF though...right?
take a sec and compare a Mogh vs Avenger- klinks do have their advantages that's for sure
Yep, the KDF Battle Cruiser is better than the Fed Battle Cruiser. It's got a Standard Cloak. Definite benefit there for that opening strike if it manages to get in range to do that decloak strike. Not a Battle Cloak, so no escape or anything - but a definite potential advantage for an opening strike.
Again though, kind of like comparing the Varanus to Fed Sci Vessels. Battle Cruisers are a KDF thing. Sci Vessels a Fed thing. Course, while the Mogh has that potential opening advantage over the Avenger...the Varanus is always worse.
-klink ships still hold ship advantage across the board compared to fed ships (just take a sec and pull up to similar ships from either faction, you will see as you go through them all in many cases the klink ship is better,
Um...did you even take that sec to look? Course not...cause you wouldn't have posted that if you did.
AA still is horrible to face, 10 AAs on the 5v5 match field in under 3 minutes is tough to deal with and changes the battle drastically for feds- while cloak detection is nice, the window of time is small and only gives a specific advantage against targets that happen to be cloaked that are near by and can be acted upon- honestly I would take the AA any day of the week cause you don't even need the silly cloak detection console to get cloakers with the right skills, consoles, boff powers
and if anyone says otherwise, they are talking out their a$$ cause they never have built a snooper build and don't know a thing about hunting cloakers, both me and edalgo learned how to build snooper builds from the KING of snoopers in kerrat
sorry fellas, they could nerf, destroy, break that silly detection console TOMORROW and you would still be dealing with fed tvaro snoopers cause you just don't need that console to do the job
Which would be the same as KDF T'varo snoopers...curious...balanced, eh?
there is folks out there that want both sides to have equal opportunity for all gear and the only difference between the 2 factions to be the way the ships look and their home base, thats is it
It's no longer just two factions, though. It's...meh, I can't say it. Cryptic may want us to believe it, but it's not three factions - there's two factions and a fraction. But still, it's no longer just two factions.
there is folks out there that want to cherry pick what is traded but still keep some things faction specific
If Cryptic could do a better job balancing things - they could do a better job of maintaining diversity. IMHO, balance is more important than diversity. Balanced diversity would be awesome - but we all know who we're dealing with here.
then theres the other folks (like myself) that feel BOTH factions got robbed when all this horse trading began and its all just melting together into minor, subtle differences -its a shame really
Again though...balance trumps diversity in my book. Again, if Cryptic could do balanced diversity - that would be awesome...but uh...yeah.
seems to me virus really wants the klinks to have TDF, and his "things" are based off 'cause the klinks have a lot of cloaks, they should have TDF
It's the Roms, man...it's the Roms! It's not that the KDF have lots of cloaks...it's that they have to face 36 Fed/F-Rom cloaks (that's not even counting the non-faction cloaking boats). The Feds got TDF when they had to face nowhere near that many cloaks...and even with that, extremely few Battle Cloaks - while the KDF are facing the 30 Battle Cloaking boats of the Fed Roms.
I mean, c'mon...that right there is why the console trade should have been made with the release of LoR.
I guess that's one way to justify it, I would rather myself try and keep what uniqueness is left to the two factions, but it all wont matter here in the end because cryptic has commented on a rework of the cloaking system entirely,
Again, if it were only two factions...there would be no need for TDF on the KDF side. But it's not just two factions.
that was in a older post bout 5 months back when the op poster of the post was trying to get details on mask energy systems that renders the ship undetectable, the op was stacking consoles to increase its effectiveness and a dev (I cant remember) answered his numbers question but then added, "I wouldn't go to crazy with this because we are evaluating a new mechanic for cloaking and the entire system will be changed here in the near future- (something like that)"
It was probably adjudicatorhawk...he took over talking about stealth from borticuscryptic. Pretty much the only two I've seen discussing stealth mechanics.
but again, we all know cryptic, they say they are working on it, and we are lucky if anything gets done at all in a year LOL
Heh, even the skill revamp got pushed back from Expansion 2 to S10...possibly. Maybe later, eh? So I wouldn't expect any changes to stealth/perception until the time of the skill revamp - cause otherwise they'd just be creating more work for themselves...
If anyone needed an example about why there are so many balance issues, look no further. Instead of looking for a way to adapt himself and his playstyle to better deal with his opponent, the op is going to cry to the devs and ask for them to make the game easier for him. Players lime this are the exact reason that games that have different factions with different abilities and technology lose all their potential to be great, because the playerbase needs it all to be equal rather than having to work around some distinct disadvantages. Gods forbid that you actually have to think to win in a game. And to the op, if you want better cloak detection, quit your Klingon character and get a fed. You were perfectly happy with how it all worked when you were the only one who could cloak. But now that romulan ships have it better you, now its a problem right? Now that you're getting a taste of it, you can't handle it. Players like you disgust me, and kill games that try to be creative with how things work.
Advantages.
Disadvantages.
When brought to the table...should balance out.
If they don't...then balance trumps diversity, imho.
After the whole PL fiasco, AA is one of the few things we have left that offers a unique-ish advantage for the KDF.
I would rather adapt and retain what little we have left.
Because I like to think myself impartial, sure I no longer have any Fed toons - deleted at the end of last year...I did roll with both for over two years trying to maintain balanced numbers...
Because I like to think myself impartial, sure I no longer have any Fed toons - deleted at the end of last year...I did roll with both for over two years trying to maintain balanced numbers...
What do folks think of the new Flankbush on Tribble?
It does a lot more base damage in lieu of raw crits. Essentially, flanking is the stronger, more consistent method, but youll get the big numbers to post on OPvP with nothing other than a romulan.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If it isnt fun for the masses..........They wont play
And the que's will remain empty
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
So I've seen a few more people mention the typical "adapt and get over it" knee jerk response, but therein lies the problem. There is NO counter to this level of stealth detection. Being forced out of normal visibility range isn't a counter either. So if anyone who has said "QQ get over it", or "adapt or quit" wants to do as several players in the AA thread have done, please enlighten us all as to what the counters are...
It's truly amazing how different a lot of these arguments look after playing for team blue and red simultaneously. Bottom line for me:
Give Feds AA, it's incredibly easy to counter anyway, Aux2Faw needs the disadvantage, and distinction between factions is sadly a lost cause anyway (thanks to LoR and console swapping already happening).
Don't nerf TDF or stealth detection in the slightest, but make starship stealth actually worth something to invest in so one can combat the snoopers somehow. After all why shouldn't hunting and vaping be a chess match between skills, and not a track meet around the map at full impulse?
Because it is so easy to counter there is no need to give the feds AA. Let the feds keep TDF but fix the stealth mechanic so stealth can be used effectively if specced into properly.
If one has to build a.specific way to create super snoopers then it should be just as possible to make a super stealther.
Because it is so easy to counter there is no need to give the feds AA. Let the feds keep TDF but fix the stealth mechanic so stealth can be used effectively if specced into properly.
I see your point, and honestly if feds never get it, oh well and no love lost per se. It is rather sad when we have to settle on a game mechanic (captain skill) actually doing something though...looking at you starship stealth...and devs of course.
The only thing really bad about TDF is that it can be used under EBC on T'varo, and even that's questionable since it doesnt get the science ship bonus to stealthsight
The other thing thats bad about snooping for KDF and Roms is that they dont have good science ship platform for it. Sci Bortasqu can run EPtA3, Fleet Varanus has room to run EPtA2, after that its either give up 50% of the engi stations for EPtA2 or use a lockbox ship (including temporal sci and the Tal Shiar vessels). The fact that nobody even talks about this half of the problem space tells me that most of the complainers think TDF console is some kind of magic win button. Snooping requires specific builds with multiple tools, the console is just a part of it. Snoopers that go to the trouble of building a snooper ship give up a lot for it, in the same way that vapers give up a lot to be able to vape reliably.
Comments
/10chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar
It only seems to work on T'varo with the EBC that lets you use science abilities from cloak
Best fix for it would be for the console ability to be disabled while you are cloaked, and to stop working if you enter cloak. That is how it works with regular cloaking console on (eg) Defiant. An alternative for EBC in particular would be to allow the console to be used, but to make the ship visiable during the scan, which is how most science abilities work with the EBC.
Yeah, I know it's just the T'varo - it's been brought up since shortly after LoR. Bit of a play on words, so to speak...certain ships: T'varo Retrofit, Fleet T'varo Retrofit...two versions of the "same" ship creating the image of it being more than one ship...yadda, yadda, yadda.
But yeah, it gets into the "no counter" argument. There's no counter if you can't see the ship that can see you...but if you can see the ship that can see you, you can avoid said ship - thus a counter. After that, it just gets into the console switcheroo issue otherwise.
BTW, the TDF buff can be SNB'd - just like Sensor Scan can...but again, that gets into the issue of being able to see them to do that...which you can't with a Fed'Varo.
I think that's more in line with what I have said in the past (it's along the lines of what I say in general) - address the bugs and questionable working as intended items first...then take a look at what/if any adjustments need to be made from there.
It's not Feds vs. KDF...hasn't been for almost a year. Romulans...they play both sides. The "QQ" as you call it, for some is simply about it was one thing when the Fed side had almost no cloak outside of the Defiant/Gal-X. Now they've got Romulans as well. The situation has changed. Even if one went from a story/narrative perspective...the Feds developed improved cloak detection to deal with the KDF...so uh, the KDF wouldn't do that to deal with the Romulans? Tada...fix the bugs/exploits with it and share it. Problem solved...
edit: Should note - they have stated that [SciCdr] and 2pc MACO reducing the CD on the TDF is WAI.
No TDF though, eh?
Without TDF though, eh?
Pretty much without the TDF, eh?
Console switching with it is an exploit.
Wouldn't say that...hrmm, doesn't look like I said that, eh? Fix the bugs/exploits and share it...nothing about nerfing it.
Yep, game bugs should be fixed.
Pretty much.
Took way too long, imho.
Reads more like Fed butthurt than KDF QQ...
XDXDXDXD
That was the best thing I've ever heard in the forums. I kinda love you now!
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
LMAO Complete Butthurt at it's Finest Deal with it cause i doubt there gonna Nerf it
just because your Whinning about it cause you got beaten down by somebody who
was using it,learn to find a way to counter it or don't play PvP then.:rolleyes:
In some of the threads discussing it, there were quite a few Feds that claimed really needing to see that far...for the advantage it gave them.
I mainly did FvK when I had Feds to avoid the *mades pugstomping in FvF.
Do you believe that TDF should be able to be used on a cloaked T'varo?
Neither am I. Heck, I just posted this earlier in another thread...
...but I can see the point some folks that play KDF or K-Rom are making about the TDF inequality.
"Feds w/o much cloak in the least. Feds have TDF. KDF w/ a bunch of cloak. KDF have no TDF."
That's one thing.
"Feds still w/o much cloak in the least. 6 boats that can console cloak. F-Roms w/ more Battle Cloak than the KDF. (30 Rom vs. 6 KDF Battle Cloak). Feds and F-Roms have TDF. KDF and K-Roms w/ more cloak still than Feds and F-Roms (36 Feds/F-Rom vs. 69 KDF/K-Rom). Works out to 30 BC vs. 36 BC. KDF still do not have TDF?"
That's another thing.
KvK queues definitely got worse after LoR. Even FvK queues got worse. I fell asleep more than once waiting on FvK to pop...meh.
It's kind of funny, imho, that there are basically two "threads" going on at the moment.
Feds feel AA is OP.
KDF feel TDF is OP.
Some Feds just want AA nerfed. They don't want it shared. Sharing it would just make it worse for them...for the reasons that they're complaining about it.
Some KDF are fine with TDF being shared...no nerf needed. Course, then you get into the discussion about whether AA should be included in the trade for TDF. Some of that's a scab they don't want picked based on other consoles that have been shared. Some if it is probably the same reason that some Feds don't want it shared. Which gets into why some Feds don't want TDF shared...more or less.
The AA <---> TDF swap's been suggested since LoR...heck, even before then.
andddddd NOOO TDF and TDG together make klink and klink rom life miserable ....so it works fine ty .....or you could just roll a fed .problem solved
(SINGS) aaaamen amen amen amen amen
So where would Fed Roms fit into that? /cough
Er...but don't you make the point later that...er...
Yeah, as if having to pay Zen for Sci Vessels wasn't bad enough - toss them the Lock Box boats. /facepalm
Would have nothing to do horrible FvK queues because of Feds hiding in FvF though...right?
Yep, the KDF Battle Cruiser is better than the Fed Battle Cruiser. It's got a Standard Cloak. Definite benefit there for that opening strike if it manages to get in range to do that decloak strike. Not a Battle Cloak, so no escape or anything - but a definite potential advantage for an opening strike.
Again though, kind of like comparing the Varanus to Fed Sci Vessels. Battle Cruisers are a KDF thing. Sci Vessels a Fed thing. Course, while the Mogh has that potential opening advantage over the Avenger...the Varanus is always worse.
Fed: 25 Sci Vessels
KDF: 10 Sci Vessels
Rom: 10 Sci Vessels
Um...did you even take that sec to look? Course not...cause you wouldn't have posted that if you did.
Lol, I don't think anybody could seriously argue that one. Elite Phasers? WTF was Cryptic smoking there, eh?
I still think they need to change SWDs...and change the Elite Weapons to be:
Elite Phasers: Disruptive Phasers
Elite Disruptors: Phased Disruptors
Or something...anything...Elite Phasers make the Ferengi Missile look well thought out.
One could argue that KDF have the advantage with BOFF Traits. Pirate vs. Leadership.
Positioning? Spreads?
/cough O rly?
Which would be the same as KDF T'varo snoopers...curious...balanced, eh?
It's no longer just two factions, though. It's...meh, I can't say it. Cryptic may want us to believe it, but it's not three factions - there's two factions and a fraction. But still, it's no longer just two factions.
If Cryptic could do a better job balancing things - they could do a better job of maintaining diversity. IMHO, balance is more important than diversity. Balanced diversity would be awesome - but we all know who we're dealing with here.
Again though...balance trumps diversity in my book. Again, if Cryptic could do balanced diversity - that would be awesome...but uh...yeah.
It's the Roms, man...it's the Roms! It's not that the KDF have lots of cloaks...it's that they have to face 36 Fed/F-Rom cloaks (that's not even counting the non-faction cloaking boats). The Feds got TDF when they had to face nowhere near that many cloaks...and even with that, extremely few Battle Cloaks - while the KDF are facing the 30 Battle Cloaking boats of the Fed Roms.
I mean, c'mon...that right there is why the console trade should have been made with the release of LoR.
Again, if it were only two factions...there would be no need for TDF on the KDF side. But it's not just two factions.
It was probably adjudicatorhawk...he took over talking about stealth from borticuscryptic. Pretty much the only two I've seen discussing stealth mechanics.
Heh, even the skill revamp got pushed back from Expansion 2 to S10...possibly. Maybe later, eh? So I wouldn't expect any changes to stealth/perception until the time of the skill revamp - cause otherwise they'd just be creating more work for themselves...
Advantages.
Disadvantages.
When brought to the table...should balance out.
If they don't...then balance trumps diversity, imho.
edit: Oh btw, in case you missed it...Romulans.
I would add that the TDG console is self trolling as it can lag and desync your own team.
After the whole PL fiasco, AA is one of the few things we have left that offers a unique-ish advantage for the KDF.
I would rather adapt and retain what little we have left.
R.I.P
I offer this...
Rombush: +25% Damage, +11.5% CrtH, +28.8% CrtD (Rom Captain w/ 5x Sub/SupOp)
Flankbush: +46.8% Damage, +4% CrtH, +10% CrtD (Naus Captain w/ 2x SupOp, 1x Sub, & 1x Pirate)
What do folks think of the new Flankbush on Tribble?
It does a lot more base damage in lieu of raw crits. Essentially, flanking is the stronger, more consistent method, but youll get the big numbers to post on OPvP with nothing other than a romulan.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
When the last card is played
If it isnt fun for the masses..........They wont play
And the que's will remain empty
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
R.I.P
It's truly amazing how different a lot of these arguments look after playing for team blue and red simultaneously. Bottom line for me:
Give Feds AA, it's incredibly easy to counter anyway, Aux2Faw needs the disadvantage, and distinction between factions is sadly a lost cause anyway (thanks to LoR and console swapping already happening).
Don't nerf TDF or stealth detection in the slightest, but make starship stealth actually worth something to invest in so one can combat the snoopers somehow. After all why shouldn't hunting and vaping be a chess match between skills, and not a track meet around the map at full impulse?
If one has to build a.specific way to create super snoopers then it should be just as possible to make a super stealther.
R.I.P
But isn't the counter to TDF, AMS spam? :cool:
*AMS's then Cloaks*
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I see your point, and honestly if feds never get it, oh well and no love lost per se. It is rather sad when we have to settle on a game mechanic (captain skill) actually doing something though...looking at you starship stealth...and devs of course.
What a novel idea, I can't wait to see the team blue response.
*braces for impact*
The other thing thats bad about snooping for KDF and Roms is that they dont have good science ship platform for it. Sci Bortasqu can run EPtA3, Fleet Varanus has room to run EPtA2, after that its either give up 50% of the engi stations for EPtA2 or use a lockbox ship (including temporal sci and the Tal Shiar vessels). The fact that nobody even talks about this half of the problem space tells me that most of the complainers think TDF console is some kind of magic win button. Snooping requires specific builds with multiple tools, the console is just a part of it. Snoopers that go to the trouble of building a snooper ship give up a lot for it, in the same way that vapers give up a lot to be able to vape reliably.