I'll just see you in Kerrat from an abnormally long range
Hank's demonstrating the issue quite well though...and you're supporting it. That video...it's a Fed T'varo...it's FvF. You, being a Fed could see him. KDF on the other hand...? See the problem now?
edit: By the way, mind you - that video was pretty funny...
Every console for every faction, battlecloaks all around, this "new accord" had better not castrate the FEDs at all, the romulans are already in violation of every treaty due to the use of weapons of mass destruction: Thaeleron pulses WTF, kill whole worlds is a single shot, thats not provocation to both the Feds and KDF no nt at all we just your friendly duplicitous world killing buddies, we'd never kill all other life since were not the people that brought you the tal shiar, and made deals with the Iconians..
It is funny but also shows how OP Nukara T5 is and the fact he can do that means it should be nerfed.
The R-Tet Cascade was just one of three things used there. It's not so much a case that the Cascade itself should be nerfed, but perhaps the manner in which one can drop out a combination of things/clickies should be, eh?
Perhaps in the manner they addressed 2x/3x stacking with Tac BOFF abilities - they should look at some of the clickies.
Just like its ridiculous that a cloaker can get to within 2km of a non snooper and Vape before their blip comes up on the mini map?
You're counter is simply decloak and put your shields up
If a vaper wants an actual challenge (and not just kill the average ker'rat farmer who doesn't really care), he can't get within 10km of his target or they will hear him getting ready and know what to do the second he hears the decloak. Also, a vape can fail in so many different ways it is by no means a guaranteed kill at all. When attacking some of the ships out there these days literally everything has to go perfectly.
As for simply decloaking and putting up shields, yeah that would be great, but since the person using TDF is in a T'Varo and never has to show themself, (or fear of being detected in the same manner), all they have to do is vape your hull. Not having even the slightest of shields for RSP or TT to work. Also decloaking and raising shields doesn't respond anywhere near as fast as just activating TT or RSP. Anyway the point is, there is no way to counter this level of detection right now, and that's what I believe most people are saying is "OP".
On a side (fun) note, where's the challenge in vaping a cloaked ship that only runs about 35k hull, now that finding them within the 'close proximity' of 28km is so easy? When I play as a regular escort with no cloak the hunt is always the most fun part of catching a cloaker, and isn't that why we all play the game, for jollies? Bah, going to stop typing now before I end up like VD.
The worst is TDF on a Fedulan T'Varo. At least with other ships they have to decloak to use it or simply don't have a cloak and therefore can be seen giving cloakers a small chance to get the 30+ kilometers away required... Having the ability to be detected from 28k away and promptly destroyed while still cloaked, and with no counter available at all, is kind of ridiculous.
uh...T'Varo cannot see you at 28Km away. You are confusing it with a dedicated Fleet Nebula snopper.
Besides, VD was telling us how TDF is a waste of console space with a wall of math just a while ago. Not sure what has changed except Mini crying a river again.
Yep, it's been available to Feds to run on any boat for over two years. Things have changed though over the years. Running TDF today is not the same as it was running TDF going back two years...
Nah, no need to go back that far. Just a month or two ago, you were telling us here in the PvP forum that TDF is unnecessary and it's waste of precious console space with the same old wall of math. I guess Mini is crying for nothing.
Nah, no need to go back that far. Just a month or two ago, you were telling us here in the PvP forum that TDF is unnecessary and it's waste of precious console space with the same old wall of math. I guess Mini is crying for nothing.
Link please? I know I forget stuff all the time...but that doesn't sound like something I would say.
the tachyon detection field gives too much boost and butthurt to me when used
please nerf this asap i beg of ye
(or give it to the kdf too)
dammmn feds
My apologies Mini, I must have "accidentally" left K'Vork's ship blueprint somewhere openly in these forums recently even though he has retired already. Actually, I knew the smart Feds would immediately pick it up and adapt it to torment and terrorize you in Kerrat. You have no idea how happy I am as a result... Thanks for QQ in this thread, it confirms it has been a big success so far.
My apologies Mini, I must have "accidentally" left K'Vork's ship blueprint somewhere openly in these forums recently even though he has retired already. Actually, I knew the smart Feds would immediately pick it up and adapt it to torment and terrorize you in Kerrat. You have no idea how happy I am as a result... Thanks for QQ in this thread, it confirms it has been a big success so far.
Dont apoligise. The feds developed and where given good cloak detection to offset thier lack of cloaking.
Dont apoligise. The feds developed and where given good cloak detection to offset thier lack of cloaking.
Which is true and good.
I have seen this used in kerrat. (not that I play a ton anymore but I played my klink for a few hours a week ago or so lol).
When people used it properly it was powerful... and not op. Yes I got killed once and had to run a couple more.
However there are some that use it in combo with the console swap exploit.
I think most people QQing about this one... are experiencing that horse c.
I think its good for the game for there to be a science bent console that can detect all cloakers on the map for a short time. What isn't cool is when people are swapping combos to keep that up 100% of the time. That is BS.... and cryptic needs to start fixing bugs if they ever epxect people to honest come back to there game. Which is looking less and less likely. I seriously considered just uninstalling today... not because of anything in game. I just need the hard drive space and the 1-2 hours I spend in STO in a week are almost all grind it to keep semi up time anyway... hardly fun times.
PS I agree completely that this should be cross faction... frankly with uni ques coming... its time to cross faction ALL of the remaining consoles. You know what would be really really cool... is if the next lockbox (or the one after I guess) had a universal console gold box. (A box that when you opened it gave you a choice of 3-4 cross faction consoles.) that way they could release the rest of the Klink / Fed locked consoles at one time. Boom everyone can have anything... which isn't such a bad thing if the war is over and PvP is now one big happy holo deck experience.
My apologies Mini, I must have "accidentally" left K'Vork's ship blueprint somewhere openly in these forums recently even though he has retired already. Actually, I knew the smart Feds would immediately pick it up and adapt it to torment and terrorize you in Kerrat. You have no idea how happy I am as a result... Thanks for QQ in this thread, it confirms it has been a big success so far.
Nah, plenty of people before you ran that build and perfected it .
Lol. I remember when the complaint was that the TDF as useless garbage of a console. Heck, its useless nature as once used to argue why the feds needed some KDF consoles to make up for it.
I'm fine with the feds having the best cloak detection.
In fact since the feds have the best cloak detection it adds wieght as to why they are fine in their current level of cloaking ability factionwise.
If that changes then we can talk about the acquisition,imo. Otherwise I vote no.
This was also before the roms were introduced.. KDF have no viable cloaking detection for roms.
Also, with the nerf of stacking subterfuge, the TDF console was never adjusted to scale down with those nerfs.
When a fed has the TDF equipped, no amount of stealth points, consoles etc.. can add up to even combat this console. I know because I tested it. It effectively renders the KDF cloak useless.
I don't care if KDF ever get the TDF console, but it needs to be adjusted to be in line with the subterfuge nerfs. With all the nerfs b'rels received for having a battle cloak, those nerfs plus the battlecloak render the b'rel even more vulnerable than it already was.
Additionally, instead of giving TDF to KDF so that we don't have to give up a console, perhaps cryptic should just make a new console to combat the rom's more efficient cloak.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
When a fed has the TDF equipped, no amount of stealth points, consoles etc.. can add up to even combat this console. I know because I tested it. It effectively renders the KDF cloak useless.
This is exactly the problem at hand, no counter at all is available. Basically having an area denial that can be so large (and perfect), and on ships that can go just as fast as raiders (Wells, Palisade etc), is out of control. The icing on the cake here is these snoopers almost always work in tandem with, wait for it...a fedulan cloaker...that of course can't be detected in the same manner by the other side. Then you can even add ice cream when considering the Palisade pilot can be a romulan as well, further showing this is no longer a Fed/KDF give and take. Since Romulans came crashing into STO, (literally and figuratively), any argument of having any sort of KDF/Fed balance went right out the window.
Cryptic even went further by giving away the neb during the free week of gifts, so now, every fed has that console that had a fed account during that time. When you give away the TDF to every fed, why have a KDF cloak when no amount of stealth consoles, stealth points, and deflectors that give +stealth can combat it?
The b'rel should have been given back all of its nerfs in that case. Instead, they gave us token 10% hull buff thinking that is good enough.
I am not saying that the TDF shouldn't have increased detection capabilities, but when cryptic made the console widely available to every fed and didn't scale it down to deal with the subterfuge nerfs, they really hurt a major advantage to the KDF.
Something needs to be done.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
I am still fine with the TDF. They can keep it and we can keep our AA.
AA has been nerfed, TDF have not... I am also fine with fed keeping the console, but it needs to be nerfed in line with the subterfuge nerfs. Also, we need some type of viable console to detect roms if we don't get the TDF.
P.S. no one has even talked about the non-KDF and non-rom cloaks the feds have been getting these days... voth? Feds are being able to cloak more and more these days in some type of fashion and KDF are still left without viable detection functionality.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Cryptic even went further by giving away the neb during the free week of gifts, so now, every fed has that console that had a fed account during that time.
Cryptic gave away the T5 neb, with the non-portable TDG console, which is also a bit less functional due to lower sensor boosting (probably bugged)
TDF is from the T3 neb, and is the one that is being used on everything. Cryptic did not give it away.
Here is what I would like to see:
1) fix TDG so that it works at least as well as TDF
2) allow TDG to work on Federation Science Vessels *only* (no carriers, no warbirds, no temporal)
3) nerf to T3 TDF so that detection is reduced dramatically (half the stealth sight bonus or something), but still allow it to be used on any ship
AA has been nerfed, TDF have not... I am also fine with fed keeping the console, but it needs to be nerfed in line with the subterfuge nerfs. Also, we need some type of viable console to detect roms if we don't get the TDF.
P.S. no one has even talked about the non-KDF and non-rom cloaks the feds have been getting these days... voth? Feds are being able to cloak more and more these days in some type of fashion and KDF are still left without viable detection functionality.
With respect I can find no info on a AA nerf. A fix after LOREs release in 2013 that corrected its 180 second self time out and the ability to kill it with energy weapons.
Still if AA has been nerfed then the TDF needs a similiar treatment.
For this mission, you are able to conduct the Tachyon scan while cloaked. This gives a distinct advantage to ships that can cloak vs. ships that cannot cloak, since the former do not have to engage the Voth ships that appear. They can slow down, scan, and move on to the next area to scan.
It does not appear, imho, to be something that is working as intended - if the intention of the mission is to scan and engage the ships. If you do not have to engage the ships...if you do not even have to flee the ships if you do not want to fight them...etc, etc, etc.
Just something that appears out of place when with the majority of scans one attempts to do in the PvE arena of things - will cause you to decloak, but this one does not.
On a similar note, it is also possible to use the Tachyon Detection Field console while cloaked from certain ships.
While the precedent for players not being affected by certain abilities (friend/foe thing) has obviously been set (GW comes to mind right off the back)...one is still left with the question of whether conducting the Tachyon scan while cloaked in the Dyson Zone is working as intended or is a bug - and thus - what that would mean for the TDF console.
I try not to exploit the bug myself on my cloak capable ships, but sometimes I'm just in a rush - so I don't mind feeling a little dirty to zip through the mission when it comes up. As is, I have not seen it stated to be a bug, working as intended, etc - so perhaps saying I'm exploiting a bug by doing it is a bit much...and I guess I do feel a little dirty doing it - but until Cryptic says one way or another if this is working as intended (both the zone and the console) - I believe play will continue as it does.
Comments
Hank's demonstrating the issue quite well though...and you're supporting it. That video...it's a Fed T'varo...it's FvF. You, being a Fed could see him. KDF on the other hand...? See the problem now?
edit: By the way, mind you - that video was pretty funny...
Mini's not flying a BoP. Mini's in a Warbird. He's flying KDF Rom.
Besides, in his OP he stated the following...
Nerf it or share it. It wasn't just a nerf it request.
The R-Tet Cascade was just one of three things used there. It's not so much a case that the Cascade itself should be nerfed, but perhaps the manner in which one can drop out a combination of things/clickies should be, eh?
Perhaps in the manner they addressed 2x/3x stacking with Tac BOFF abilities - they should look at some of the clickies.
Iso, Cascade, +Proton Barrage
Iso, Cascade, +Tet Lattice
Iso, Cascade, +Etc, etc, etc.
Hey, how about a Rom ADSD...where you can also add in some Shield Inversion and Proton Destabilizer action.
All sorts of fun things (sarcasm) can be chained that make the 2x/3x stacking changes that took place look silly...
If a vaper wants an actual challenge (and not just kill the average ker'rat farmer who doesn't really care), he can't get within 10km of his target or they will hear him getting ready and know what to do the second he hears the decloak. Also, a vape can fail in so many different ways it is by no means a guaranteed kill at all. When attacking some of the ships out there these days literally everything has to go perfectly.
As for simply decloaking and putting up shields, yeah that would be great, but since the person using TDF is in a T'Varo and never has to show themself, (or fear of being detected in the same manner), all they have to do is vape your hull. Not having even the slightest of shields for RSP or TT to work. Also decloaking and raising shields doesn't respond anywhere near as fast as just activating TT or RSP. Anyway the point is, there is no way to counter this level of detection right now, and that's what I believe most people are saying is "OP".
On a side (fun) note, where's the challenge in vaping a cloaked ship that only runs about 35k hull, now that finding them within the 'close proximity' of 28km is so easy? When I play as a regular escort with no cloak the hunt is always the most fun part of catching a cloaker, and isn't that why we all play the game, for jollies? Bah, going to stop typing now before I end up like VD.
I called Passages Malibu about my forum addiction here...they hung up on me.
R.I.P
"Guydol, from the company that brought you Midol. It's okay, guys - we understand."
uh...T'Varo cannot see you at 28Km away. You are confusing it with a dedicated Fleet Nebula snopper.
Besides, VD was telling us how TDF is a waste of console space with a wall of math just a while ago. Not sure what has changed except Mini crying a river again.
Nah, no need to go back that far. Just a month or two ago, you were telling us here in the PvP forum that TDF is unnecessary and it's waste of precious console space with the same old wall of math. I guess Mini is crying for nothing.
Link please? I know I forget stuff all the time...but that doesn't sound like something I would say.
My apologies Mini, I must have "accidentally" left K'Vork's ship blueprint somewhere openly in these forums recently even though he has retired already. Actually, I knew the smart Feds would immediately pick it up and adapt it to torment and terrorize you in Kerrat.
What I need is some fukitol to let all this same horsecrap cloak whine go.
R.I.P
Dont apoligise. The feds developed and where given good cloak detection to offset thier lack of cloaking.
R.I.P
Which is true and good.
I have seen this used in kerrat. (not that I play a ton anymore but I played my klink for a few hours a week ago or so lol).
When people used it properly it was powerful... and not op. Yes I got killed once and had to run a couple more.
However there are some that use it in combo with the console swap exploit.
I think most people QQing about this one... are experiencing that horse c.
I think its good for the game for there to be a science bent console that can detect all cloakers on the map for a short time. What isn't cool is when people are swapping combos to keep that up 100% of the time. That is BS.... and cryptic needs to start fixing bugs if they ever epxect people to honest come back to there game. Which is looking less and less likely. I seriously considered just uninstalling today... not because of anything in game. I just need the hard drive space and the 1-2 hours I spend in STO in a week are almost all grind it to keep semi up time anyway... hardly fun times.
PS I agree completely that this should be cross faction... frankly with uni ques coming... its time to cross faction ALL of the remaining consoles. You know what would be really really cool... is if the next lockbox (or the one after I guess) had a universal console gold box. (A box that when you opened it gave you a choice of 3-4 cross faction consoles.) that way they could release the rest of the Klink / Fed locked consoles at one time. Boom everyone can have anything... which isn't such a bad thing if the war is over and PvP is now one big happy holo deck experience.
Nah, plenty of people before you ran that build and perfected it .
This was also before the roms were introduced.. KDF have no viable cloaking detection for roms.
Also, with the nerf of stacking subterfuge, the TDF console was never adjusted to scale down with those nerfs.
When a fed has the TDF equipped, no amount of stealth points, consoles etc.. can add up to even combat this console. I know because I tested it. It effectively renders the KDF cloak useless.
I don't care if KDF ever get the TDF console, but it needs to be adjusted to be in line with the subterfuge nerfs. With all the nerfs b'rels received for having a battle cloak, those nerfs plus the battlecloak render the b'rel even more vulnerable than it already was.
Additionally, instead of giving TDF to KDF so that we don't have to give up a console, perhaps cryptic should just make a new console to combat the rom's more efficient cloak.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
This is exactly the problem at hand, no counter at all is available. Basically having an area denial that can be so large (and perfect), and on ships that can go just as fast as raiders (Wells, Palisade etc), is out of control. The icing on the cake here is these snoopers almost always work in tandem with, wait for it...a fedulan cloaker...that of course can't be detected in the same manner by the other side. Then you can even add ice cream when considering the Palisade pilot can be a romulan as well, further showing this is no longer a Fed/KDF give and take. Since Romulans came crashing into STO, (literally and figuratively), any argument of having any sort of KDF/Fed balance went right out the window.
Cryptic even went further by giving away the neb during the free week of gifts, so now, every fed has that console that had a fed account during that time. When you give away the TDF to every fed, why have a KDF cloak when no amount of stealth consoles, stealth points, and deflectors that give +stealth can combat it?
The b'rel should have been given back all of its nerfs in that case. Instead, they gave us token 10% hull buff thinking that is good enough.
I am not saying that the TDF shouldn't have increased detection capabilities, but when cryptic made the console widely available to every fed and didn't scale it down to deal with the subterfuge nerfs, they really hurt a major advantage to the KDF.
Something needs to be done.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
R.I.P
AA has been nerfed, TDF have not... I am also fine with fed keeping the console, but it needs to be nerfed in line with the subterfuge nerfs. Also, we need some type of viable console to detect roms if we don't get the TDF.
P.S. no one has even talked about the non-KDF and non-rom cloaks the feds have been getting these days... voth? Feds are being able to cloak more and more these days in some type of fashion and KDF are still left without viable detection functionality.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
ya dont give TDF to KDF or nerf it for fad and give vaper a buff again !
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Like you've said the in AA post though, there are bountiful counters to AA all over the place. No such list of counters for TDF.
TDF is from the T3 neb, and is the one that is being used on everything. Cryptic did not give it away.
Here is what I would like to see:
1) fix TDG so that it works at least as well as TDF
2) allow TDG to work on Federation Science Vessels *only* (no carriers, no warbirds, no temporal)
3) nerf to T3 TDF so that detection is reduced dramatically (half the stealth sight bonus or something), but still allow it to be used on any ship
4) put TDF in a lockbox for klinks
With respect I can find no info on a AA nerf. A fix after LOREs release in 2013 that corrected its 180 second self time out and the ability to kill it with energy weapons.
Still if AA has been nerfed then the TDF needs a similiar treatment.
R.I.P
Keep it coming!
totally legit and canon.I mean you see in all episodes how one romulan pops all starfleet ships then moves away .
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1085671