Star, you've missed one key point with the Undine; they're not from our dimension. Okay, you've tried to use this as evidence of your point; here's my point. The Undine are one of only two life forms in Fluidic Space, and the difference between those two life forms is staggering. The Undine are attacked by the borg and, as we've seen, they rule the ENTIRE galaxy as being hostile, because they can't tell the difference between the humanoid races and because they DON'T CARE!!! They considered the Borg attack on their dimension to be an attack by all humanoids in our dimension. You cannot negotiate with that!
And before you pull out the whole Terradome thing, that was just ONE faction, and even they admit that most Undine probably wouldn't listen to them.
The mere fact that they have factions makes them more human than the Borg.
The Undine species consists mostly of militaristic racist idiots. They are NOT a monolithic, uncompromising force of pure evil.
Compare them to the Ha'ni in the collaboration that Marcus and I are doing. A profoundly racist single-species society, overwhelming military might, and individual physical superiority.
In fact, I am modelling jir'aata Warat and the basic Ha'ni foreign policy very heavily on Undine soldiers and the attitude of those soldiers towards galactic species.
Basically, the Undine are NOT a monolithic evil entity like the Borg Collective. They're just OP racist idiots. And you can handle OP racist idiots with sufficiently savvy diplomats and a bit of luck.
Prove it. Because I don't see how you CAN. ANY person can fight. thus the fact that Borg Drones can is meaningless.
The fact is that ALL Borg drones share the same mind. If one fights, all fight. They never surrender, they "kill" those who surrender to them by assimilating them, and they uniiformly sentence prisoners to a fate worse than death.
The Borg are MONSTERS, or more accurately a single monster with multiple bodies.
The mere fact that they have factions makes them more human than the Borg.
The Undine species consists mostly of militaristic racist idiots. They are NOT a monolithic, uncompromising force of pure evil.
Compare them to the Ha'ni in the collaboration that Marcus and I are doing. A profoundly racist single-species society, overwhelming military might, and individual physical superiority.
In fact, I am modelling jir'aata Warat and the basic Ha'ni foreign policy very heavily on Undine soldiers and the attitude of those soldiers towards galactic species.
Basically, the Undine are NOT a monolithic evil entity like the Borg Collective. They're just OP racist idiots. And you can handle OP racist idiots with sufficiently savvy diplomats and a bit of luck.
Not when they're actively hunting you and want to wipe all of you out. The only reason the Ha'ni don't is because their leader isn't as closed-minded as the Undine portrayed in Scorpion are.
The Borg are willing to ally for the greater good (read as; for their own survival), but the Undine were on a rampage to wipe out all life in our galaxy in what amounts to a holy war for them. It wouldn't surprise me if the Undine in the Terradome were treated as heretics when they got back.
Just because they're more human doesn't make them less of a threat. To suggest that the Borg are more of a threat than a race who's actively stating how the 'weak will perish' and how they'll wipe everyone out, simply because the Borg have a hive mind is specist, at best.
Objectively, let's look at the facts here; Borg are being annihilated (doubtless a good thing) by a hyper-advanced force hellbent on wiping out all humanoid life (because they don't know the difference until the Terradome incident). Said advanced force then attacks one of your crewmen. As Captain, it's your job to not only protect your crew, but the whole Federation against this extreme threat - and you need the Borg to do it.
While Picard would have tried diplomacy more than Janeway did, in the end I can see him coming to the same conclusion.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Too bad Janeway and crew didn't have it in Scorpion.
Is Scorpion poorly written? Maybe. Voyager as a whole didn't have the best writing. However, that doesn't mean Janeway's actions were unjustified. It just means they could have done a better job explaining why they were justified.
Not when they're actively hunting you and want to wipe all of you out. The only reason the Ha'ni don't is because their leader isn't as closed-minded as the Undine portrayed in Scorpion are.
The Borg are willing to ally for the greater good (read as; for their own survival), but the Undine were on a rampage to wipe out all life in our galaxy in what amounts to a holy war for them. It wouldn't surprise me if the Undine in the Terradome were treated as heretics when they got back.
Just because they're more human doesn't make them less of a threat. To suggest that the Borg are more of a threat than a race who's actively stating how the 'weak will perish' and how they'll wipe everyone out, simply because the Borg have a hive mind is specist, at best.
Objectively, let's look at the facts here; Borg are being annihilated (doubtless a good thing) by a hyper-advanced force hellbent on wiping out all humanoid life (because they don't know the difference until the Terradome incident). Said advanced force then attacks one of your crewmen. As Captain, it's your job to not only protect your crew, but the whole Federation against this extreme threat - and you need the Borg to do it.
While Picard would have tried diplomacy more than Janeway did, in the end I can see him coming to the same conclusion.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Too bad Janeway and crew didn't have it in Scorpion.
Is Scorpion poorly written? Maybe. Voyager as a whole didn't have the best writing. However, that doesn't mean Janeway's actions were unjustified. It just means they could have done a better job explaining why they were justified.
I still think that what Janeway did was not only evil, but also high treason, aiding the enemy, and attempted genocide.
She aided and abetted the Borg Collective in the attempted assimilation of a sentient species. That's like a Balkans resistance fighter helping the TRIBBLE who are occupying and abusing his country against the Russians out of fear of communism.
The fact remains that the Borg have made it very clear that it will not stop until literally everything is Borg. The Undine may be OP racist idiots, but they are clearly NOT actively trying to condemn the galaxy to a fate worse than death.
What Mad Kathy should've done was get some recordings and sensor readings of the Undine while they were busy with the Borg, then she should've headed back into the Delta Quadrant, made nice with some random species, built a really big subspace coms array, warned Starfleet Command and sent ahead the data, and then settled down and started the Delta Quadrant Federation or something.
I still think that what Janeway did was not only evil, but also high treason, aiding the enemy, and attempted genocide.
She aided and abetted the Borg Collective in the attempted assimilation of a sentient species. That's like a Balkans resistance fighter helping the TRIBBLE who are occupying and abusing his country against the Russians out of fear of communism.
The fact remains that the Borg have made it very clear that it will not stop until literally everything is Borg. The Undine may be OP racist idiots, but they are clearly NOT actively trying to condemn the galaxy to a fate worse than death.
What Mad Kathy should've done was get some recordings and sensor readings of the Undine while they were busy with the Borg, then she should've headed back into the Delta Quadrant, made nice with some random species, built a really big subspace coms array, warned Starfleet Command and sent ahead the data, and then settled down and started the Delta Quadrant Federation or something.
Here's the problem; the Undine would have destroyed the Borg and started systematically wiping out every humanoid race in the surrounding area, with no one to oppose them. This would later end with a catastrophically high loss of life when the Undine eventually did reach the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, because Starfleet would still not be ready for them.
In fact, what that subspace message would do is reveal Earth's location to the Undine, who would then open singularities right on top of the Federation's core worlds.
There is no right option. That's the problem. The only way to stop the Undine from wiping out billions of innocent (non-Borg) people was to make a deal with the devil.
In the same way that if it turned out the only way to fight the Iconians was with the Borg's help, I suspect you would push that option.
Here's the problem; the Undine would have destroyed the Borg and started systematically wiping out every humanoid race in the surrounding area, with no one to oppose them. This would later end with a catastrophically high loss of life when the Undine eventually did reach the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, because Starfleet would still not be ready for them.
In fact, what that subspace message would do is reveal Earth's location to the Undine, who would then open singularities right on top of the Federation's core worlds.
There is no right option. That's the problem. The only way to stop the Undine from wiping out billions of innocent (non-Borg) people was to make a deal with the devil.
In the same way that if it turned out the only way to fight the Iconians was with the Borg's help, I suspect you would push that option.
I would NOT suggest allying with the Borg to fight the Iconians under any circumstances.
What Janeway should've done is go back, build that giant array, send out a constant stream of messages to the Undine telling them that there are non-Borg inhabitants of this dimension and they'd be more than happy to offer the Undine food, fuel, rest, et cetera in exchange for the Undine wiping the Borg off the map. As the Undine are individuals, there would logically be at least one Undine, probably more, who would listen.
In addition to that, send the warning to Starfleet in all directions. And add a note to the end saying "just in case, don't call us back."
The Borg is a force of pure evil. It is one mind with trillions of bodies, and it cannot be reasoned with. It has a goal, and it does whatever it feels is necessary to achieve that goal. It is NOT something that will EVER respect the terms of a treaty or alliance.
Here's the problem; the Undine would have destroyed the Borg and started systematically wiping out every humanoid race in the surrounding area, with no one to oppose them. This would later end with a catastrophically high loss of life when the Undine eventually did reach the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, because Starfleet would still not be ready for them.
You have yet to prove that the Undine were even interested in anything other than the Borg until they met Captain Traitor. Also note that the other spacefaring species in the area were preparing and planning to deal with the Undine if they had to, but viewed the Borg as the greater threat and were quite willing to sit by and let them beat each other to death. Hypothesis rejected.
In the same way that if it turned out the only way to fight the Iconians was with the Borg's help, I suspect you would push that option.
Only because Cryptic's railroading means I wouldn't have any other option if it came to that. And frankly I doubt even Cryptic is that crazy.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I would then proceed to kill her. She was SO unlikable.
Then again, I think that was the point.
I would also kill Elisa Flores, for reasons I've already mentioned.
If I were to revive anyone, it would be Martok, because Martok.
--Agreed. Kai Winn was a great love-to-hate baddie. Kill, resurrect, kill again...
--I actually like Elisa Flores. She's a heck of a lot less annoying than Tovan Khev.
(in fact, a D'trel story I keep forgetting to post involves that Romulan mission where Charva sends you to those freighters. Khev keeps whining about his girl problems, so D'trel finally snaps and tells him that if he doesn't shut up and quit whining about his ex she'll send him out the airlock sans EV suit, and anyway it's HIS sister they're raiding the convoy for, so he'd better stop complaining about his ex (Charva) and shoot the f*cking Cardassians)
And since it got missed in the off-topic debate, I will restate my voice on behalf of Alyosha, which would be Franklin Drake. Drake was a little TRIBBLE even with what we have established in game canon--deliberately giving you a holoemitter with a ship from a hated house, knowing you'll have to fight an entirely unnecessary fight that will cost lives for no reason (I am for fighting when needed--but it REALLY comes off as Drake just wanting to grab popcorn and watch people die).
When you add the even worse things Drake did by putting Alyosha of all people into that situation, yeah, Alyosha wants to put a sniper bolt into Drake's head BAD.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
And since it got missed in the off-topic debate, I will restate my voice on behalf of Alyosha, which would be Franklin Drake. Drake was a little TRIBBLE even with what we have established in game canon--deliberately giving you a holoemitter with a ship from a hated house, knowing you'll have to fight an entirely unnecessary fight that will cost lives for no reason (I am for fighting when needed--but it REALLY comes off as Drake just wanting to grab popcorn and watch people die).
Hanlon's Razor: Do not automatically attribute to malice what can be adequately explained as a mistake. Section 31 operatives are as human as the rest of us (or as nonhuman, as the case may be).
The alternate explanation is that he didn't do sufficient research into records of Klingon troop movements in ... whatever year that was, and therefore didn't know he was making you look like an enemy of Mr. Random Klingon Captain who blundered into your covert op because he happened to be making a run at Drozana Station when you turned up.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Hanlon's Razor: Do not automatically attribute to malice what can be adequately explained as a mistake. Section 31 operatives are as human as the rest of us (or as nonhuman, as the case may be).
The alternate explanation is that he didn't do sufficient research into records of Klingon troop movements in ... whatever year that was, and therefore didn't know he was making you look like an enemy of Mr. Random Klingon Captain who blundered into your covert op because he happened to be making a run at Drozana Station when you turned up.
This. I always attributed it to Drake TRIBBLE up big time.
This. I always attributed it to Drake TRIBBLE up big time.
He tends to do that quite a lot, doesn't he?
I mean, sending *checks Cryptic graphic* millions and millions of Captains to the same spot in space and time with the same orders and the same holoemitter that causes them to experience the same angry Klingons?
(more seriously, yeah, that was more Drake f*cking up than Drake being evil).
Despite captains wringing their hands in disgust at Section 31 (or spacing found operatives in some instances ) here's something to consider: I'm reminded of Colonel Nathan Jessop's statement/rant at the end of A Few Good Men... The Federation had been so de-clawed by the time of the Dominion War, it needed Section 31 and the likes of Sloane to do the jobs its other officers were incapable or unwilling to do. I know, Plot Necessity makes them The Bad Guys, but the more logical truth would be the needs of the many, and that S31 does perform an essential role in terms of providing security for the Federation...
Despite captains wringing their hands in disgust at Section 31 (or spacing found operatives in some instances ) here's something to consider: I'm reminded of Colonel Nathan Jessop's statement/rant at the end of A Few Good Men... The Federation had been so de-clawed by the time of the Dominion War, it needed Section 31 and the likes of Sloane to do the jobs its other officers were incapable or unwilling to do. I know, Plot Necessity makes them The Bad Guys, but the more logical truth would be the needs of the many, and that S31 does perform an essential role in terms of providing security for the Federation...
It's not a mistake I'd expect from Slone or Harris, knowing 'everything' is Section 31s hat, I would have thought Drake was trying to tie up a lose end (i.e. you) in that mission.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Interestingly enough, Three (herself a pretty openly evil person) hates Section 31 intensely. Frankie Drake sabotaged her ship about 20 times, and almost got one of her imprints killed. So she dumped him on Nukara Prime sans EV suit.
At the end of the day, they exist and serve to protect the Federation and its citizenry.
My RL comparison would be the kind of rhetoric-spouting left-wingers who call veterans 'baby burning fascists' etc, all the time forgetting that if it wasn't for those 'monsters', they would likely be speaking *insert language of choice here* and with a considerably different idea of a free life...
At the end of the day, they exist and serve to protect the Federation and its citizenry.
My RL comparison would be the kind of rhetoric-spouting left-wingers who call veterans 'baby burning fascists' etc, all the time forgetting that if it wasn't for those 'monsters', they would likely be speaking *insert language of choice here* and with a considerably different idea of a free life...
Section 31s problem wasn't their attempted genocide against the founders...
It was that they didn't genocide hard enough.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Interestingly enough, Three (herself a pretty openly evil person) hates Section 31 intensely. Frankie Drake sabotaged her ship about 20 times, and almost got one of her imprints killed. So she dumped him on Nukara Prime sans EV suit.
Things snowballed from there. :rolleyes:
I'd be curious to know why... If anything, she should agree with their policy of "This is for your own good down, sit down, shut up, and say thankyou when I'm done..."
I'd be curious to know why... If anything, she should agree with their policy of "This is for your own good down, sit down, shut up, and say thankyou when I'm done..."
I never particularly got the impression that Three particularly likes being ordered around by anyone except her contract-holder, especially when said person doesn't particularly respect the law or consider civilian casualties.
Section 31s problem wasn't their attempted genocide against the founders...
It was that they didn't genocide hard enough.
Yup... Had they succeeded, it would have solved the issue, as leaderless Jem'Hadar and Vorta would have been considerably easier to negotiate and deal with...
I'd be curious to know why... If anything, she should agree with their policy of "This is for your own good down, sit down, shut up, and say thankyou when I'm done..."
Oh, she RESPECTS the attitude. She just hates them because they try to manipulate her (something units really hate; Contract obedience states clearly that the Contract-holder is obligated to give the unit clear direction, and manipulation of any form from any source is...well, it's just not kosher, to the units. Which is funny because they're perfectly fine with torturing people to order...:rolleyes:), and because Frankie Drake had a couple of EV suits sabotaged, which almost killed Ensign Wallace, and cost Three a pair of eyes which she had to regrow (a supremely uncomfortable experience).
I never particularly got the impression that Three particularly likes being ordered around by anyone except her contract-holder, especially when said person doesn't particularly respect the law or consider civilian casualties.
First part, yes, second part, she couldn't really care less about civilian casualties as long as her imprints are fine...
I never particularly got the impression that Three particularly likes being ordered around by anyone except her contract-holder, especially when said person doesn't particularly respect the law or consider civilian casualties.
Oh sure, that makes sense, but the spacings of operatives etc, that's where the logic falls apart, as those are people with the aim of protecting the Federation, not in causing it harm
At the end of the day, they exist and serve to protect the Federation and its citizenry.
My RL comparison would be the kind of rhetoric-spouting left-wingers who call veterans 'baby burning fascists' etc, all the time forgetting that if it wasn't for those 'monsters', they would likely be speaking *insert language of choice here* and with a considerably different idea of a free life...
I'd compare it more to the US's CIA. Yes, they've done some stuff that was pretty questionable, probably due to inadequate research (the Bay of Pigs, for instance), and some stuff that was downright evil (aerosolized LSD research on the public, shipping suspected terrorists off to places they could be tortured into "confessing"), but they've also protected the US, and the Western world in general, from various nefarious plots by their opposite numbers (notably the KGB during the Cold War, and certain branches of the loose "organization" known as al-Qaeda today).
Drake is a bit too pragmatic for my tastes sometimes, and I dislike being drawn into his intrigues with inadequate information - but as demonstrated by "Divide et Impera", he may be justified in keeping certain matters in-house...
Oh, she RESPECTS the attitude. She just hates them because they try to manipulate her (something units really hate; Contract obedience states clearly that the Contract-holder is obligated to give the unit clear direction, and manipulation of any form from any source is...well, it's just not kosher, to the units. Which is funny because they're perfectly fine with torturing people to order...:rolleyes:), and because Frankie Drake had a couple of EV suits sabotaged, which almost killed Ensign Wallace, and cost Three a pair of eyes which she had to regrow (a supremely uncomfortable experience).
I'd compare it more to the US's CIA. Yes, they've done some stuff that was pretty questionable, probably due to inadequate research (the Bay of Pigs, for instance), and some stuff that was downright evil (aerosolized LSD research on the public, shipping suspected terrorists off to places they could be tortured into "confessing"), but they've also protected the US, and the Western world in general, from various nefarious plots by their opposite numbers (notably the KGB during the Cold War, and certain branches of the loose "organization" known as al-Qaeda today).
Drake is a bit too pragmatic for my tastes sometimes, and I dislike being drawn into his intrigues with inadequate information - but as demonstrated by "Divide et Impera", he may be justified in keeping certain matters in-house...
Exactly, that's why it made me think so strongly of Jessop's "You can't handle the truth!" declaration :cool:
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
The mere fact that they have factions makes them more human than the Borg.
The Undine species consists mostly of militaristic racist idiots. They are NOT a monolithic, uncompromising force of pure evil.
Compare them to the Ha'ni in the collaboration that Marcus and I are doing. A profoundly racist single-species society, overwhelming military might, and individual physical superiority.
In fact, I am modelling jir'aata Warat and the basic Ha'ni foreign policy very heavily on Undine soldiers and the attitude of those soldiers towards galactic species.
Basically, the Undine are NOT a monolithic evil entity like the Borg Collective. They're just OP racist idiots. And you can handle OP racist idiots with sufficiently savvy diplomats and a bit of luck.
The fact is that ALL Borg drones share the same mind. If one fights, all fight. They never surrender, they "kill" those who surrender to them by assimilating them, and they uniiformly sentence prisoners to a fate worse than death.
The Borg are MONSTERS, or more accurately a single monster with multiple bodies.
Not when they're actively hunting you and want to wipe all of you out. The only reason the Ha'ni don't is because their leader isn't as closed-minded as the Undine portrayed in Scorpion are.
The Borg are willing to ally for the greater good (read as; for their own survival), but the Undine were on a rampage to wipe out all life in our galaxy in what amounts to a holy war for them. It wouldn't surprise me if the Undine in the Terradome were treated as heretics when they got back.
Just because they're more human doesn't make them less of a threat. To suggest that the Borg are more of a threat than a race who's actively stating how the 'weak will perish' and how they'll wipe everyone out, simply because the Borg have a hive mind is specist, at best.
Objectively, let's look at the facts here; Borg are being annihilated (doubtless a good thing) by a hyper-advanced force hellbent on wiping out all humanoid life (because they don't know the difference until the Terradome incident). Said advanced force then attacks one of your crewmen. As Captain, it's your job to not only protect your crew, but the whole Federation against this extreme threat - and you need the Borg to do it.
While Picard would have tried diplomacy more than Janeway did, in the end I can see him coming to the same conclusion.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Too bad Janeway and crew didn't have it in Scorpion.
Is Scorpion poorly written? Maybe. Voyager as a whole didn't have the best writing. However, that doesn't mean Janeway's actions were unjustified. It just means they could have done a better job explaining why they were justified.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
I still think that what Janeway did was not only evil, but also high treason, aiding the enemy, and attempted genocide.
She aided and abetted the Borg Collective in the attempted assimilation of a sentient species. That's like a Balkans resistance fighter helping the TRIBBLE who are occupying and abusing his country against the Russians out of fear of communism.
The fact remains that the Borg have made it very clear that it will not stop until literally everything is Borg. The Undine may be OP racist idiots, but they are clearly NOT actively trying to condemn the galaxy to a fate worse than death.
What Mad Kathy should've done was get some recordings and sensor readings of the Undine while they were busy with the Borg, then she should've headed back into the Delta Quadrant, made nice with some random species, built a really big subspace coms array, warned Starfleet Command and sent ahead the data, and then settled down and started the Delta Quadrant Federation or something.
Here's the problem; the Undine would have destroyed the Borg and started systematically wiping out every humanoid race in the surrounding area, with no one to oppose them. This would later end with a catastrophically high loss of life when the Undine eventually did reach the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, because Starfleet would still not be ready for them.
In fact, what that subspace message would do is reveal Earth's location to the Undine, who would then open singularities right on top of the Federation's core worlds.
There is no right option. That's the problem. The only way to stop the Undine from wiping out billions of innocent (non-Borg) people was to make a deal with the devil.
In the same way that if it turned out the only way to fight the Iconians was with the Borg's help, I suspect you would push that option.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
I would NOT suggest allying with the Borg to fight the Iconians under any circumstances.
What Janeway should've done is go back, build that giant array, send out a constant stream of messages to the Undine telling them that there are non-Borg inhabitants of this dimension and they'd be more than happy to offer the Undine food, fuel, rest, et cetera in exchange for the Undine wiping the Borg off the map. As the Undine are individuals, there would logically be at least one Undine, probably more, who would listen.
In addition to that, send the warning to Starfleet in all directions. And add a note to the end saying "just in case, don't call us back."
The Borg is a force of pure evil. It is one mind with trillions of bodies, and it cannot be reasoned with. It has a goal, and it does whatever it feels is necessary to achieve that goal. It is NOT something that will EVER respect the terms of a treaty or alliance.
Only because Cryptic's railroading means I wouldn't have any other option if it came to that. And frankly I doubt even Cryptic is that crazy.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I would resurrect Kai Winn...
Wait for it...
I would then proceed to kill her. She was SO unlikable.
Then again, I think that was the point.
I would also kill Elisa Flores, for reasons I've already mentioned.
If I were to revive anyone, it would be Martok, because Martok.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
--Agreed. Kai Winn was a great love-to-hate baddie. Kill, resurrect, kill again...
--I actually like Elisa Flores. She's a heck of a lot less annoying than Tovan Khev.
(in fact, a D'trel story I keep forgetting to post involves that Romulan mission where Charva sends you to those freighters. Khev keeps whining about his girl problems, so D'trel finally snaps and tells him that if he doesn't shut up and quit whining about his ex she'll send him out the airlock sans EV suit, and anyway it's HIS sister they're raiding the convoy for, so he'd better stop complaining about his ex (Charva) and shoot the f*cking Cardassians)
--Yay, Martok!
When you add the even worse things Drake did by putting Alyosha of all people into that situation, yeah, Alyosha wants to put a sniper bolt into Drake's head BAD.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
The alternate explanation is that he didn't do sufficient research into records of Klingon troop movements in ... whatever year that was, and therefore didn't know he was making you look like an enemy of Mr. Random Klingon Captain who blundered into your covert op because he happened to be making a run at Drozana Station when you turned up.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
This. I always attributed it to Drake TRIBBLE up big time.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
He tends to do that quite a lot, doesn't he?
I mean, sending *checks Cryptic graphic* millions and millions of Captains to the same spot in space and time with the same orders and the same holoemitter that causes them to experience the same angry Klingons?
(more seriously, yeah, that was more Drake f*cking up than Drake being evil).
Despite captains wringing their hands in disgust at Section 31 (or spacing found operatives in some instances
Agreed. In many ways, they're a necessary evil.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Interestingly enough, Three (herself a pretty openly evil person) hates Section 31 intensely. Frankie Drake sabotaged her ship about 20 times, and almost got one of her imprints killed. So she dumped him on Nukara Prime sans EV suit.
Things snowballed from there. :rolleyes:
At the end of the day, they exist and serve to protect the Federation and its citizenry.
My RL comparison would be the kind of rhetoric-spouting left-wingers who call veterans 'baby burning fascists' etc, all the time forgetting that if it wasn't for those 'monsters', they would likely be speaking *insert language of choice here* and with a considerably different idea of a free life...
Section 31s problem wasn't their attempted genocide against the founders...
It was that they didn't genocide hard enough.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
^^Can't tell if kidding or serious...
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
I'd be curious to know why... If anything, she should agree with their policy of "This is for your own good down, sit down, shut up, and say thankyou when I'm done..."
I never particularly got the impression that Three particularly likes being ordered around by anyone except her contract-holder, especially when said person doesn't particularly respect the law or consider civilian casualties.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Yup... Had they succeeded, it would have solved the issue, as leaderless Jem'Hadar and Vorta would have been considerably easier to negotiate and deal with...
Oh, she RESPECTS the attitude. She just hates them because they try to manipulate her (something units really hate; Contract obedience states clearly that the Contract-holder is obligated to give the unit clear direction, and manipulation of any form from any source is...well, it's just not kosher, to the units. Which is funny because they're perfectly fine with torturing people to order...:rolleyes:), and because Frankie Drake had a couple of EV suits sabotaged, which almost killed Ensign Wallace, and cost Three a pair of eyes which she had to regrow (a supremely uncomfortable experience).
First part, yes, second part, she couldn't really care less about civilian casualties as long as her imprints are fine...
Oh sure, that makes sense, but the spacings of operatives etc, that's where the logic falls apart, as those are people with the aim of protecting the Federation, not in causing it harm
Drake is a bit too pragmatic for my tastes sometimes, and I dislike being drawn into his intrigues with inadequate information - but as demonstrated by "Divide et Impera", he may be justified in keeping certain matters in-house...
Ahhh... :cool:
Exactly, that's why it made me think so strongly of Jessop's "You can't handle the truth!" declaration :cool:
:d
........
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!