But why even put on attire of any sort to begin with? Part of the reason is STO has developed a visual language for enemy groups to help players discern different ranks quickly and easily.
In other words, it's difficult to break yourself out of the CoH/CO mentality of big = more powerful. This is Star Trek, not a comic book video game. Rank and lethality are rarely (if ever) determined by size in Star Trek. Look at the Defiant.
Attire and armor is a good step into thinking outside of your artistic box. But 10 foot tall Breen, Undine, and Borg is comical, not threatening. Captain Kirk was not built like Lou Ferrigno (as much as he pretends he was), and Picard was not built like Kareem Abdul-Jabar.
The boss even has a wrist mounted mini-planet killer weapon.
Again, Cryptic's influence of creating comic book video games is seen in STO. A "mini-planet killer" wrist weapon is something I'd expect to see on Lord Recluse's gauntlet or the Prussian Prince of Automatons arsenal of lethality. Not in Star Trek.
I understand the fanboy charm of making a hand-held version of the planet killer weapon, but when you have a rarely-seen species such as the Undine, with such a unique and original concept from fluidic space, you had any number of avenues to go in for a 'boss weapon'. But the fact you resorted to this really tells me you need to broaden your horizons and think outside the box more. This is a unique alien species unlike any we've seen before. They have so much potential for more than just 'another alien with a doomsday weapon'.
They also have no shields, providing a unique feel in combat as their health is more resilient than that of most creatures to compensate, encouraging the use of weapons that are good against hitpoints instead of shields.
This is a good idea, and does bring the uniqueness of the undine back into some perspective. It also will make the Romulan Plasma weapons much more desirable.
We also wanted to focus the Undines niche as masters of Fluidic Space, which weve tried to characterize as being ocean-like. The Cruiser can now Subspace Dive it can open a rift into subspace, and a few seconds later it will randomly come out of another rift. The Battleship can open a Fluidic Space rift; this rift slowly pulls you in due to its pressure gradient and leaks fluidic space into normal space.
Wrong. Very wrong. Fluidic space is not like the ocean. You're trying to superimpose Earth's ocean into fluidic space.
If fluidic space can not crush our ships, then there is no pressure gradient. Fluidic space would behave much like our own universe -- it is expanding outwards. If it is expanding outwards, there is no pressure to 'suck' you in.
I understand you are artists, and game designers, not scientists. So let me put it this way.
The only reason our oceans have pressure is because the gravity of earth pulls those oceans downwards towards the center of it. This effect is multiplied the deeper you go. Thus pressure.
There is no gravity in fluidic space. There is no 'up' or 'down' in which pressure from fluidic space could originate. Call it something else, but don't call it a pressure gradient.
Also, if there was fluidic space that would leak into our space, more than likely it would freeze instantly, or it would boil off into vapor instantly as its molecular structure would be pulled apart in the vacuum of our own space.
It's a shame their melee attacks have been removed instead of being improved; more lunges and grapples would fit what we saw in Voyager. Also, being infected with Undine cells too.
It's a shame their melee attacks have been removed instead of being improved; more lunges and grapples would fit what we saw in Voyager. Also, being infected with Undine cells too.
Agreed. I was hoping for a bit more of the dichotomy presented by 'Voyager' - that these incredibly advanced and intelligent beings can move and fight like "the Alien" of Sigourney Weaver fame. Obviously the game engine may limit that potential a mite, but something in that direction would have been cool.
Agreed. I was hoping for a bit more of the dichotomy presented by 'Voyager' - that these incredibly advanced and intelligent beings can move and fight like "the Alien" of Sigourney Weaver fame. Obviously the game engine may limit that potential a mite, but something in that direction would have been cool.
The thing is, a lot of the Voth dinosaur attacks would be appropriate; the raptors in particular have lunges and grapples which at least shows it could be done with the Undine.
Soo, you're saying it's weaker now? (Especially vs point defense console.) All Undine ships should be a challenge.
I think you're missing the point of the rank change. The change implies that the ranks don't reflect ship strength in comparison with the ships of other species, they reflect ship strength in comparison with other ships within the same species. The IP ship is staying the same strength, or even getting stronger by the sound of what they're doing with the Undine weapons... but it's just the weakest compared to the other Undine ships.
Will they have (best "Dr. Evil") "Frickin' lazer beams on their frickin' heads?" Or...will they rely on ill-tempered Fluidic Space Dinos for their dirty work?
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
So they felt that the old armor was too bulky and heavy and in turn decided to put them in giant limb-cages that obscure most of their bodies, doubling their size, and leg thingies so massive that they look like they can't walk to boot.
Props to the artists and programmers for their work. Most of it seems pretty frakkin' great. The armor however, is like fixing a cat in the wall by putting more cats in to lure it out.
Wrong. Very wrong. Fluidic space is not like the ocean. You're trying to superimpose Earth's ocean into fluidic space.
If fluidic space can not crush our ships, then there is no pressure gradient. Fluidic space would behave much like our own universe -- it is expanding outwards. If it is expanding outwards, there is no pressure to 'suck' you in.
I understand you are artists, and game designers, not scientists. So let me put it this way.
The only reason our oceans have pressure is because the gravity of earth pulls those oceans downwards towards the center of it. This effect is multiplied the deeper you go. Thus pressure.
There is no gravity in fluidic space. There is no 'up' or 'down' in which pressure from fluidic space could originate. Call it something else, but don't call it a pressure gradient.
Also, if there was fluidic space that would leak into our space, more than likely it would freeze instantly, or it would boil off into vapor instantly as its molecular structure would be pulled apart in the vacuum of our own space.
If the fluid in fluidic space has a density anywhere near that of water, then a space filled with it with a diameter of just a few million kilometers will have the mass of a star, and its self-gravitation will give it pressure comparable to the interior of a star. Extend that diameter to a few billion kilometers, and it will have enough gravity to collapse into a black hole. The fact that there is apparently a galactic-sized region of fluid implies that said fluid is much, much less massive than water or air, more like the Luminiferous Aether that was once believed to carry light waves through otherwise-empty space.
What makes me wonder pretty much in end game they rarely show up in any fleet missions except once in a blue moon colony invasion or fleet alerts and its very rare they do. So we know from tribble theres a territory control a lot like voth one except space and undine and then 2 space ques. So are we going to see any new ground that actually has these revamped undine lol. Or is it just for show for a dev blog lol.
What makes me wonder pretty much in end game they rarely show up in any fleet missions except once in a blue moon colony invasion or fleet alerts and its very rare they do. So we know from tribble theres a territory control a lot like voth one except space and undine and then 2 space ques. So are we going to see any new ground that actually has these revamped undine lol. Or is it just for show for a dev blog lol.
Good question.
I guess they will appear in the new FE, too.
I actually hope for an Undine ground battle zone for 9.5 (if we will have a Season 9.5).
I would very much like Cryptic to dump us on a tyranoform... ehhh... zergifi... ehhh fluid...o...formed planet or part of the Dyson Sphere.
With much organic architecture and maybe even geneticall engineered creatures.
What's wrong? You don't think that thing really kills a planet, do you? Or even a mountain?
It's just a big gun with the visuals of Undine planet killer beams... like the Clone Wars era LAATs had mini Death Star lasers.
No, I don't think that.. but like iconians already said (page 10).. "A "mini-planet killer" wrist weapon is something I'd expect to see on Lord Recluse's gauntlet or the Prussian Prince of Automatons arsenal of lethality. Not in Star Trek." - And especially not on an Undine.
Also there is always a problem with super-weapons in games - they are either too powerful to be fun (One-Hit-Kill) or they don't deserve their powerful name because they aren't as powerful as their name suggests ... not to mention, that I don't understand this obsession with BIG guns (in general) anyway. As if the Undine wouldn't already have enough potential to be a most dangerous enemy through their own features (psi/regen).
"We might get pretty singed at that range, but not as singed as they're going to get. Engage."
- Captain Six of Nine aka Ashley "Don't Call Me Ash" Campbell
Wrong. Very wrong. Fluidic space is not like the ocean. You're trying to superimpose Earth's ocean into fluidic space.
If fluidic space can not crush our ships, then there is no pressure gradient. Fluidic space would behave much like our own universe -- it is expanding outwards. If it is expanding outwards, there is no pressure to 'suck' you in.
I understand you are artists, and game designers, not scientists. So let me put it this way.
The only reason our oceans have pressure is because the gravity of earth pulls those oceans downwards towards the center of it. This effect is multiplied the deeper you go. Thus pressure.
There is no gravity in fluidic space. There is no 'up' or 'down' in which pressure from fluidic space could originate. Call it something else, but don't call it a pressure gradient.
Also, if there was fluidic space that would leak into our space, more than likely it would freeze instantly, or it would boil off into vapor instantly as its molecular structure would be pulled apart in the vacuum of our own space.
human thinking and human mentality, thats the issue with trying to create an alien, you end up human thinking the issue instead of the way an alien would. trouble is there are no aliens. fludic space could have strings of gravity which creates funnels within fludic space, this is a wierd alien realm, so anything is possible. as for the leaking fludic space, if this was the case fludic space wouldnt of existed, so clearly the molecules are bnded in such a way that this fludic stuff can "survive" in space. again alien thinking.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Character Artist Joe Jing and Systems Designer Jeff "AdjudicatorHawk" Hamilton share a sneak peak of the Undine's updated look! Check out their new armor, ship designs, and more in this entry of the Season 9 News Dev Blog series.
Comments
Can't argue with Rainbow Dash.
Vorlon ship
4 way symmetry, butterfly wings
Undine ship
3 way symmetry, fins.
also, well.... all the small details are radically different.
My character Tsin'xing
In other words, it's difficult to break yourself out of the CoH/CO mentality of big = more powerful. This is Star Trek, not a comic book video game. Rank and lethality are rarely (if ever) determined by size in Star Trek. Look at the Defiant.
Attire and armor is a good step into thinking outside of your artistic box. But 10 foot tall Breen, Undine, and Borg is comical, not threatening. Captain Kirk was not built like Lou Ferrigno (as much as he pretends he was), and Picard was not built like Kareem Abdul-Jabar.
Again, Cryptic's influence of creating comic book video games is seen in STO. A "mini-planet killer" wrist weapon is something I'd expect to see on Lord Recluse's gauntlet or the Prussian Prince of Automatons arsenal of lethality. Not in Star Trek.
I understand the fanboy charm of making a hand-held version of the planet killer weapon, but when you have a rarely-seen species such as the Undine, with such a unique and original concept from fluidic space, you had any number of avenues to go in for a 'boss weapon'. But the fact you resorted to this really tells me you need to broaden your horizons and think outside the box more. This is a unique alien species unlike any we've seen before. They have so much potential for more than just 'another alien with a doomsday weapon'.
This is a good idea, and does bring the uniqueness of the undine back into some perspective. It also will make the Romulan Plasma weapons much more desirable.
Wrong. Very wrong. Fluidic space is not like the ocean. You're trying to superimpose Earth's ocean into fluidic space.
If fluidic space can not crush our ships, then there is no pressure gradient. Fluidic space would behave much like our own universe -- it is expanding outwards. If it is expanding outwards, there is no pressure to 'suck' you in.
I understand you are artists, and game designers, not scientists. So let me put it this way.
The only reason our oceans have pressure is because the gravity of earth pulls those oceans downwards towards the center of it. This effect is multiplied the deeper you go. Thus pressure.
There is no gravity in fluidic space. There is no 'up' or 'down' in which pressure from fluidic space could originate. Call it something else, but don't call it a pressure gradient.
Also, if there was fluidic space that would leak into our space, more than likely it would freeze instantly, or it would boil off into vapor instantly as its molecular structure would be pulled apart in the vacuum of our own space.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
These were my thoughts exactly
Pylon Fleet Holding project?
You Must Construct Additional Pylons!
Agreed. I was hoping for a bit more of the dichotomy presented by 'Voyager' - that these incredibly advanced and intelligent beings can move and fight like "the Alien" of Sigourney Weaver fame. Obviously the game engine may limit that potential a mite, but something in that direction would have been cool.
The thing is, a lot of the Voth dinosaur attacks would be appropriate; the raptors in particular have lunges and grapples which at least shows it could be done with the Undine.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
So they'll be devastatingly powerful in cutscenes against NPCs and then absolutely useless against our characters?
I wish there was a Like button for posts like this.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Edit: You mean you tell me I double-posted? Bah, I thought there'd be more posts by the time I reach the last page...
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
Props to the artists and programmers for their work. Most of it seems pretty frakkin' great. The armor however, is like fixing a cat in the wall by putting more cats in to lure it out.
If the fluid in fluidic space has a density anywhere near that of water, then a space filled with it with a diameter of just a few million kilometers will have the mass of a star, and its self-gravitation will give it pressure comparable to the interior of a star. Extend that diameter to a few billion kilometers, and it will have enough gravity to collapse into a black hole. The fact that there is apparently a galactic-sized region of fluid implies that said fluid is much, much less massive than water or air, more like the Luminiferous Aether that was once believed to carry light waves through otherwise-empty space.
En Taro Tassadar!
Ahmm. Thank you
Just google it already. It'a a race from Starcraft.
Good question.
I guess they will appear in the new FE, too.
I actually hope for an Undine ground battle zone for 9.5 (if we will have a Season 9.5).
I would very much like Cryptic to dump us on a tyranoform... ehhh... zergifi... ehhh fluid...o...formed planet or part of the Dyson Sphere.
With much organic architecture and maybe even geneticall engineered creatures.
No, I don't think that.. but like iconians already said (page 10).. "A "mini-planet killer" wrist weapon is something I'd expect to see on Lord Recluse's gauntlet or the Prussian Prince of Automatons arsenal of lethality. Not in Star Trek." - And especially not on an Undine.
Also there is always a problem with super-weapons in games - they are either too powerful to be fun (One-Hit-Kill) or they don't deserve their powerful name because they aren't as powerful as their name suggests
human thinking and human mentality, thats the issue with trying to create an alien, you end up human thinking the issue instead of the way an alien would. trouble is there are no aliens. fludic space could have strings of gravity which creates funnels within fludic space, this is a wierd alien realm, so anything is possible. as for the leaking fludic space, if this was the case fludic space wouldnt of existed, so clearly the molecules are bnded in such a way that this fludic stuff can "survive" in space. again alien thinking.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
They look cool.
I just hope like heck that we will NOT be getting an Undine lockbox and/or rep faction, because that would be just plain stupid.
What? Who are you, what did you do to Alistair? Do you possess his body?