Don't do it! ... Most agree, it's bad enough already with all the "alien" ships around the three homeworlds/hubs ... Please NO
ANTI-Undine ships though? ... Those I could see ... How about we finally get some more Vulcan ships in game? The Vulcan Science Academy, supposedly the most advanced school of learning in the Galaxy, could surely come up with an Anti-8472 Design?
Anti-Undine/8472 Weapons, or modified Undine Weapons. The AP + Plasma Proc does sound cool, though perhaps a little OP unless it was drastically scaled.
Oh and ...
NO UNDINE SHIPS FOR PLAYERS!!!
It's not that big of a deal.
Like the Tal Shiar, Voth, etc ships, it's just another vanity item.
Okay if I didn't know any better. I say that both the Concept Artist, and the so called Star Trek Archivist claiming they took "reference" for the development of the ground armor and tech as well as weapons not from "Star Trek Voyager" but actually more or less from Starcraft being more specifically the "Protoss" and elements from the "Eldar" and "Tao" in Warhammer 40k. Just add some plasma looking/cybernetic textures to it more specifically "The Borg" because their from the "Delta Quadrant" and BOOM that's the Undine tech. BRILLIANT! What next Cylons in Star Trek? Wonder if I am the only one catching onto this at all?
I love how people say "Boooo, no Undine lockboxes! Their ships are too aliens, that violates Star Trek and eats tribbles!" and on other threads, you see various: "Please, let us have a Borg faction!"
I wouldn't mind a playable Undine bioship. especially if you can feed it with your disappointing/annoying Boffs and Doffs.:D
This modularity allows us to create the range of rank (as seen on the first image) from Ensign, which is bare, to the Captain, which typically has the full set.
Really? You're renaming all of their ranks to human ranks? Lame. Super lame.
The Undine now attack using Wrist Blades, Wrist Guns or Psionic Attacks.
Is it only one attack type per enemy depending on their rank or do the higher ranks get multiple attacks that they can choose from like guns and psionic? Because if it's been reduced to one type per enemy, again, Lame. I don't care if it helps a player to ID their capabilities at a glance from a distance. I also don't like the removal of the claw swipe from enemies that enter melee range.
We removed their self-heals, but gave them all a passive Regeneration Effect, so be sure to focus your attacks for maximum effectiveness!
I hope that regen effect is strong. Their self-heals were one of the only things that actually made them challenging. If the new regen isn't fast enough then it'll just be overpowered by player fire like every other tissue paper enemy in this game. I'm hoping that their lack of shields is an indication of how good the regen is.
We updated many of the ship models so they more accurately reflect the show.
Honestly I'm not sure if they look more or less organic now. Something in the way the light plays off of the hulls in the blog's screenshots just makes the shaders feel off somehow. And the gray parts of the hull and lights aren't helping it look any more organic.
The IP ship is now the Frigate rank
Soo, you're saying it's weaker now? (Especially vs point defense console.) All Undine ships should be a challenge.
this rift slowly pulls you in due to its pressure gradient and leaks fluidic space into normal space.
Stop. Just.. okay it's too late you said it.... Fun fact: People will suspend their disbelief rather willingly but if you try to explain the mechanics of how something works and get it blatantly wrong, they won't be so forgiving. If you want to talk about pressure gradients then this shouldn't be a grav well, it should be an AOE repel.
That's not to say I don't like it. Both rift mechanics are cool. That's just a silly description that contradicts itself.
Their old plasma torpedoes have been replaced with a Bio-plasmic Warhead. Organic in nature, this projectile slows you and can drain your engine power.
There doesn't seem to be a cleanse for this on Tribble, and you can have multiples stacked on you to render you nearly immobile. I generally have to use at least two movement buffs to overcome the effects. Ep2E, APO, or Evasive, pick 2.. or sometimes all 3 if there's a rift nearby.
All of those things aside, overall the art update is cool. The undine I've battled in the space combat on Tribble have been fun to take on so the space mechanics are pretty solid. I haven't fought any of the updated ground mobs and I have some misgivings about some of the potential changes if they end up working out how they sound they'll work.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Really? You're renaming all of their ranks to human ranks? Lame. Super lame.
I don't think they're doing that at all. Those are the 'equivalent' ranks.
It is what they use in the foundry as well, if you look at the Undine (and other NPCs including animals) 'contacts' they labelled lieutenant, Ensign, etc. to give you the idea of how strong they are. It might be the STO Team's internal terminology for mob ranks.
Just like all ships are frigates, cruisers and escorts.
Honestly, if there's two faction ships I really don't want to see players flying, it's 8472 and Borg... I don't know why but it just seems wrong. Their ships are so different and so impossible-to-obtain (8472 especially) that seeing one outside ESD would just be... well, wrong. Even the Borg couldn't assimilate 8472's ships, yet suddenly the Ferengi can put them in lockboxes?
Well we did get 29th century timeships and those don't even exist in the STO universe yet (and the implication of owning one of those is a hell of a lot more damning for "canon" than hijacking a bioship.)
It would certainly be a strange thing to see, but no stranger than what we've already covered in the lock boxes (and considering the payoff is the chance to use a bioship I think it's well worth the price. This is a game after all, and though it relies heavily on the ST universe you ultimately have to cave to what would be the most fun to play. See. hunting mortar-equipped dinosaurs in Season 8.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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WHAAATTT?? Cryptic puts 50 Undine Boxes and 50 Keys in our Bank Slots and we MUST open them?
We MUST collect all the items in the boxes and we MUST fly those Undine Ships?
I will resist. I will not open the boxes. I will right click on them and will discard them, or worse, I will sell them on the Exchange.
Noooo, don't force those boxes on me. I.. I am afraid of them. I am afraid of Ship and Ground weapons I could sell, I am afraid of XP and Fleet Mark Boosts.
No, go away, I dont want to open the crate with the Undine Ship I could sell for a couple of Mil. No, NOOOOOOOO
Ok, seriously now. Dont make a fuzz about those boxes. Just dont collect or open them and they will not hurt you. :P
Didn't you know that fluidic space was less dense than vacuum? :rolleyes:
It leaks out as you get pulled in... sigh.
Don't blame me, it happened in Voyager. :P
We wanted to keep the same base effects in-game as we saw in the show when Seven of Nine programmed the deflector dish to tear open a rift to Fluidic Space. We also thought that sort of "constant force towards a wormhole" created a cool gameplay moment. So sure, there's negative pressure in some parts of fluidic space and positive pressure in others. It's weird outer-space-beyond-our-comprehension-of-physics rules! But the important part is, it's consistently weird.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
You know im looking forward to this, I was a bit apprehensive about this before but, I had a huge chat with my fleet an I don't give a damn anymore. This is a game an not hardline trek, just do what you want an make the experience fun, so what a bio ship comes into players hands.... meh! Dont get angry just roll with it and enjoy the ride.
So - 8742/Undine/Vorlon guys wont have AP weapons anymore...but something new....
Will it be a hybrid of existing energy types so we at least have some defense on our shields? If not, will existing Fleet Shields, etc have the resistance added?
I have to agree, the anomaly/rift, really just seems like a grave well with a vent plasma power too it. It doesn't make much sense that it can pull you in at the same time it's pushing out. Some of the other aspects bother me as well. Granted, the skin texturing looks a lot nicer, which is something the Borg and Liberated captains need for the infected skin, but the armor seems too much. It does seem like it's a bit bulky, which is the same issue the Federation armor suffers from at later ranks, especially Tac. I also worry that the psi attacks will be getting boosted in a manner to make them more annoying. Specifically if you're drawing aggro in the colony invasion, they will tend to either hit you with a massive attack, or you're hit by several at once, dropping you like a one shot.
Will there be anything done to make sure they're not just brain blasting the a person to death in one or two attacks?
Given their more melee focused ground combat and the lack of a fleet melee kit, will we be seeing anything for health regen and melee combat for the season 9 grind?
We wanted to keep the same base effects in-game as we saw in the show when Seven of Nine programmed the deflector dish to tear open a rift to Fluidic Space. We also thought that sort of "constant force towards a wormhole" created a cool gameplay moment. So sure, there's negative pressure in some parts of fluidic space and positive pressure in others. It's weird outer-space-beyond-our-comprehension-of-physics rules! But the important part is, it's consistently weird.
I see it this way: the quantum singularity pulls stuff to it. It's a weird quantum effect. So the fludic matter gets pulled into the rift from one side, and ships get pulled into the rift from the other side.
The two realms may not interact with one another in a direct way, only via the quantum singularity.
If two realities this different would collide directly, stuff would pretty much just implode as the universe isn't able to figure out the appropiate laws of nature or something...
Consider this: Fluidic Space can't work like our cosmos in the slightest. It would collapse under it's own mass.
Okay if I didn't know any better. I say that both the Concept Artist, and the so called Star Trek Archivist claiming they took "reference" for the development of the ground armor and tech as well as weapons not from "Star Trek Voyager" but actually more or less from Starcraft being more specifically the "Protoss" and elements from the "Eldar" and "Tao" in Warhammer 40k. Just add some plasma looking/cybernetic textures to it more specifically "The Borg" because their from the "Delta Quadrant" and BOOM that's the Undine tech. BRILLIANT! What next Cylons in Star Trek? Wonder if I am the only one catching onto this at all?
Well unlike the evolution of the eldar into the protoss this is probably a case of convergent evolution. You have the starting point of a big monstrous looking alien and need to craft an intelligent species (that's a level above where we are) out of it while still maintaining some ferocity in the design. So, strap on some extruded body plating and load up on wrist-weapons. There's a good psychological reason why WH4k went in that direction in the first place, and its likely that Cryptic has found it too. (and hey, it could be worse. They could have gone Ork.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
We wanted to keep the same base effects in-game as we saw in the show when Seven of Nine programmed the deflector dish to tear open a rift to Fluidic Space. We also thought that sort of "constant force towards a wormhole" created a cool gameplay moment. So sure, there's negative pressure in some parts of fluidic space and positive pressure in others. It's weird outer-space-beyond-our-comprehension-of-physics rules! But the important part is, it's consistently weird.
Actually, you could possibly explain the effect with physics (maybe) because you're all forgetting one thing -- fluid has mass, and mass has gravity. The vacuum of space would create an enormous pressure differential, allowing fluid from fluidic space to temporarily achieve escape velocity, enter the vacuum, then get pulled back in. Think solar flare/ejections. Meanwhile, nearby ships are suddenly contending to what amounts to a supermassive object -- there's an entire universe of fluidic mass behind that rip in space.
In Fluidic space, the mass is everywhere so gravity would essentially behave as it does in our universe, with denser bodies within the fluid exerting gravitic forces while the fluid acts like vacuum. When introduced to our universe though, there would be a huge mass differential between the vacuum of space and the fluid of Fluidic space, creating an effect that would suck in smaller objects with mass, like a starship.
And there's your lesson in made-up Sci-fi physics for the day :P
Actually, you could possibly explain the effect with physics (maybe) because you're all forgetting one thing -- fluid has mass, and mass has gravity. The vacuum of space would create an enormous pressure differential, allowing fluid from fluidic space to temporarily achieve escape velocity, enter the vacuum, then get pulled back in. Think solar flare/ejections. Meanwhile, nearby ships are suddenly contending to what amounts to a supermassive object -- there's an entire universe of fluidic mass behind that rip in space.
In Fluidic space, the mass is everywhere so gravity would essentially behave as it does in our universe, with denser bodies within the fluid exerting gravitic forces while the fluid acts like vacuum. When introduced to our universe though, there would be a huge mass differential between the vacuum of space and the fluid of Fluidic space, creating an effect that would suck in smaller objects with mass, like a starship.
And there's your lesson in made-up Sci-fi physics for the day :P
Or...
"Something something entanglement. Something something one dimensional super strings. Something something quantum vacuum. Something something subspace pressure. Something something wizardry."
In Fluidic space, the mass is everywhere so gravity would essentially behave as it does in our universe, with denser bodies within the fluid exerting gravitic forces while the fluid acts like vacuum.
That's a woefully inadequate explanation. You're completely ignoring the effect of plot. Plot can act both as a repulsive force and as an attractive force depending on the quantum state of the situation. When Voyager was sucked in, the sign of the plot (with respect to voyager) was negative. When fluidic space didn't rocket out into infinity and force voyager back with it, the sign of the plot (with respect to fluidic space) was positive.
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Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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They're the pinnacle of biological evolution... why would they wear armour?
They are flying starships, too.
It's all biological technology, crafted from Undine base genetic material. They just have to sequence their genes a bit to grow that stuff.
Actually, we don't really know if the "pilot" Undine are the true species, or if they, too, are just something created from the genetic material of the "true Undine".
Ever wondered how they could evolve in fluidic space?
Plot twist: the Gekli are the Ur-Undine. They were betrayed by their own creations.
PS: that last thing makes more sense then I initially anticipated...
To taunt the players and show them the cool stuff they'll never be able to wear.:P
Oh you can be sure that between the lobi store, a new reputation system, and another fleet holding (maybe?) that there'll be some Undine based threads to pimp yourself out with.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Comments
It's not that big of a deal.
Like the Tal Shiar, Voth, etc ships, it's just another vanity item.
I wouldn't mind a playable Undine bioship. especially if you can feed it with your disappointing/annoying Boffs and Doffs.:D
Is it only one attack type per enemy depending on their rank or do the higher ranks get multiple attacks that they can choose from like guns and psionic? Because if it's been reduced to one type per enemy, again, Lame. I don't care if it helps a player to ID their capabilities at a glance from a distance. I also don't like the removal of the claw swipe from enemies that enter melee range.
I hope that regen effect is strong. Their self-heals were one of the only things that actually made them challenging. If the new regen isn't fast enough then it'll just be overpowered by player fire like every other tissue paper enemy in this game. I'm hoping that their lack of shields is an indication of how good the regen is.
Honestly I'm not sure if they look more or less organic now. Something in the way the light plays off of the hulls in the blog's screenshots just makes the shaders feel off somehow. And the gray parts of the hull and lights aren't helping it look any more organic.
Soo, you're saying it's weaker now? (Especially vs point defense console.) All Undine ships should be a challenge.
Stop. Just.. okay it's too late you said it.... Fun fact: People will suspend their disbelief rather willingly but if you try to explain the mechanics of how something works and get it blatantly wrong, they won't be so forgiving. If you want to talk about pressure gradients then this shouldn't be a grav well, it should be an AOE repel.
That's not to say I don't like it. Both rift mechanics are cool. That's just a silly description that contradicts itself.
There doesn't seem to be a cleanse for this on Tribble, and you can have multiples stacked on you to render you nearly immobile. I generally have to use at least two movement buffs to overcome the effects. Ep2E, APO, or Evasive, pick 2.. or sometimes all 3 if there's a rift nearby.
All of those things aside, overall the art update is cool. The undine I've battled in the space combat on Tribble have been fun to take on so the space mechanics are pretty solid. I haven't fought any of the updated ground mobs and I have some misgivings about some of the potential changes if they end up working out how they sound they'll work.
p.s. No playable Undine ships...
Joined January 2009
Too late.
I don't think they're doing that at all. Those are the 'equivalent' ranks.
It is what they use in the foundry as well, if you look at the Undine (and other NPCs including animals) 'contacts' they labelled lieutenant, Ensign, etc. to give you the idea of how strong they are. It might be the STO Team's internal terminology for mob ranks.
Just like all ships are frigates, cruisers and escorts.
Well we did get 29th century timeships and those don't even exist in the STO universe yet (and the implication of owning one of those is a hell of a lot more damning for "canon" than hijacking a bioship.)
It would certainly be a strange thing to see, but no stranger than what we've already covered in the lock boxes (and considering the payoff is the chance to use a bioship I think it's well worth the price. This is a game after all, and though it relies heavily on the ST universe you ultimately have to cave to what would be the most fun to play. See. hunting mortar-equipped dinosaurs in Season 8.)
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No BORGS, NO UNDINE SHIPS.
the game missed a lot of ships for the 3 factions (the romulans need really new ships)
We MUST collect all the items in the boxes and we MUST fly those Undine Ships?
I will resist. I will not open the boxes. I will right click on them and will discard them, or worse, I will sell them on the Exchange.
Noooo, don't force those boxes on me. I.. I am afraid of them. I am afraid of Ship and Ground weapons I could sell, I am afraid of XP and Fleet Mark Boosts.
No, go away, I dont want to open the crate with the Undine Ship I could sell for a couple of Mil. No, NOOOOOOOO
Ok, seriously now. Dont make a fuzz about those boxes. Just dont collect or open them and they will not hurt you.
Don't blame me, it happened in Voyager. :P
We wanted to keep the same base effects in-game as we saw in the show when Seven of Nine programmed the deflector dish to tear open a rift to Fluidic Space. We also thought that sort of "constant force towards a wormhole" created a cool gameplay moment. So sure, there's negative pressure in some parts of fluidic space and positive pressure in others. It's weird outer-space-beyond-our-comprehension-of-physics rules! But the important part is, it's consistently weird.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Will it be a hybrid of existing energy types so we at least have some defense on our shields? If not, will existing Fleet Shields, etc have the resistance added?
Will there be anything done to make sure they're not just brain blasting the a person to death in one or two attacks?
Given their more melee focused ground combat and the lack of a fleet melee kit, will we be seeing anything for health regen and melee combat for the season 9 grind?
I see it this way: the quantum singularity pulls stuff to it. It's a weird quantum effect. So the fludic matter gets pulled into the rift from one side, and ships get pulled into the rift from the other side.
The two realms may not interact with one another in a direct way, only via the quantum singularity.
If two realities this different would collide directly, stuff would pretty much just implode as the universe isn't able to figure out the appropiate laws of nature or something...
Consider this: Fluidic Space can't work like our cosmos in the slightest. It would collapse under it's own mass.
Well unlike the evolution of the eldar into the protoss this is probably a case of convergent evolution. You have the starting point of a big monstrous looking alien and need to craft an intelligent species (that's a level above where we are) out of it while still maintaining some ferocity in the design. So, strap on some extruded body plating and load up on wrist-weapons. There's a good psychological reason why WH4k went in that direction in the first place, and its likely that Cryptic has found it too. (and hey, it could be worse. They could have gone Ork.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Actually, you could possibly explain the effect with physics (maybe) because you're all forgetting one thing -- fluid has mass, and mass has gravity. The vacuum of space would create an enormous pressure differential, allowing fluid from fluidic space to temporarily achieve escape velocity, enter the vacuum, then get pulled back in. Think solar flare/ejections. Meanwhile, nearby ships are suddenly contending to what amounts to a supermassive object -- there's an entire universe of fluidic mass behind that rip in space.
In Fluidic space, the mass is everywhere so gravity would essentially behave as it does in our universe, with denser bodies within the fluid exerting gravitic forces while the fluid acts like vacuum. When introduced to our universe though, there would be a huge mass differential between the vacuum of space and the fluid of Fluidic space, creating an effect that would suck in smaller objects with mass, like a starship.
And there's your lesson in made-up Sci-fi physics for the day :P
My character Tsin'xing
Or...
"Something something entanglement. Something something one dimensional super strings. Something something quantum vacuum. Something something subspace pressure. Something something wizardry."
That's a woefully inadequate explanation. You're completely ignoring the effect of plot. Plot can act both as a repulsive force and as an attractive force depending on the quantum state of the situation. When Voyager was sucked in, the sign of the plot (with respect to voyager) was negative. When fluidic space didn't rocket out into infinity and force voyager back with it, the sign of the plot (with respect to fluidic space) was positive.
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fixed that for you :P
http://roleplaying.diraven.net/babylon5/starships/images/Vorlon_Cruiser.jpg
DELTA PRICE RISING
Apart from that, good stuff, the space stuff sounds neat.
Have you ever seen a turtle (the pinnacle of defense-based biological evolution) blasted with a Klingon disruptor?
That's why.
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They are flying starships, too.
It's all biological technology, crafted from Undine base genetic material. They just have to sequence their genes a bit to grow that stuff.
Actually, we don't really know if the "pilot" Undine are the true species, or if they, too, are just something created from the genetic material of the "true Undine".
Ever wondered how they could evolve in fluidic space?
Plot twist: the Gekli are the Ur-Undine. They were betrayed by their own creations.
PS: that last thing makes more sense then I initially anticipated...
To taunt the players and show them the cool stuff they'll never be able to wear.:P
Haha so true. But as I've said in another thread, 8472 ships literally were made from the wireframes of Vorlon cruisers.
Oh you can be sure that between the lobi store, a new reputation system, and another fleet holding (maybe?) that there'll be some Undine based threads to pimp yourself out with.
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You mean if they don't buy the Lobi Store Bio-Armor?
So it'll still look 20% cooler on the Undine.:P