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Why is Mirror Universe not canon?
jezaleigha
Member Posts: 7 Arc User
It seems like a lot of STO is based on canon or extrapolations from the series' runs.
Yet, in "The Mirror Universe" it is clearly established through several DS9 episodes that alt-Spock's pacifism caused the Hew-mans to be conquered and turned into slaves by the Klingon-Cardassian alliance. So no human ships would ever be named "Spock".
I understand that in "The Emperor's New Cloak" Emperor Worf supposedly surrendered, but that wouldn't stop the Duros led council from continuing to fight, nor would their Cardassian allies just give up because of it.
Even if the entire Alliance had surrendered, 30-40 years seems like a really short time to reform a Terran Empire, defeat all of the Klingon-Cardassian holdouts, occupy & pacify their worlds (with 1 ship and no real trained Captains after Sisko returns home), rebuiid a Starfleet and run out of local space requiring them to invade alternate realities.
How come the Devs so blatantly ignored 5 episodes of DS9?
Yet, in "The Mirror Universe" it is clearly established through several DS9 episodes that alt-Spock's pacifism caused the Hew-mans to be conquered and turned into slaves by the Klingon-Cardassian alliance. So no human ships would ever be named "Spock".
I understand that in "The Emperor's New Cloak" Emperor Worf supposedly surrendered, but that wouldn't stop the Duros led council from continuing to fight, nor would their Cardassian allies just give up because of it.
Even if the entire Alliance had surrendered, 30-40 years seems like a really short time to reform a Terran Empire, defeat all of the Klingon-Cardassian holdouts, occupy & pacify their worlds (with 1 ship and no real trained Captains after Sisko returns home), rebuiid a Starfleet and run out of local space requiring them to invade alternate realities.
How come the Devs so blatantly ignored 5 episodes of DS9?
Post edited by jezaleigha on
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Appearently, Smily-O'brian had a son, that decided to "gut him" and make covert incursions into our universe on a regular basis, stealing all the current tech from starfleet and creating a new fleet for the Terran Universe.
Granted, 40 years may seem like a short time, but if you consider a regime-like leadership that uses expendable slave-labor to further it's interest, it may not be impossible to build a gigant fleet in little-to-no-time.
This was all explained in the dialogues throughout the Cardassian story ark in STO.
Yea... I guess I didn buy it either... Think of it as a mirror-mirror-universe.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
remember in the mirror universe things are more chaotic then they are in the prime universe, a number of key players you see in the prime universe are expendable in the mirror universe as counter parts. the terran empire rose from a gunshot to a vulcan greeting party at bozeman in montana as opposed to a handshake. as far as individual players go to each group, consider it, kirk was a psychopath, spock was cruel and clever but neither of them were the most defining, theey were simply a piece in the puzzle as opposed to some of the greatest heroes in the prime universe decades later.
as far as the mirror universe is concerned, the klingon cardassian alliance are the closest thing to friends you will find, but never to be trusted. the terran empire is built on blood and ambitions, you give them a grenade and they will take it apart, build new ones throw it at you and anyone else if they could.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The "bad guys" in the mirror universe wants to take territory in this universe. Why? what is the endgate?
They cannot keep it.
Imagine playing RISK and you had someone playing RISK beside you. Would you split your forces betwen two risk boards?
Diane Duane explains that very concept and answers your question in her old TNG Novel Dark Mirror.
It was "regent Worf" not "Emperor Worf". I don't think he was the leader of the alliance, he was just the regent of that region.
In the STO storyline the current Empire is really supposed to be the result of the rebellion we saw. So yes, Smiley through over the alliance, then Conquered the entire Galaxy, then was backstabed by his own son who took over (if I'm not mistaken)..
Is that b***sh**t? Yes. Total TRIBBLE. For the reasons you mention.
Conquering the known Galaxy within 40 years and building up enough power to conquer another one?
Then having developed the SAME ships with that period, including ships like the Excelsior or the Galaxy, that in the original universe were build in a time where... well... they could not have been developed in the MU?
The story is just dump.
TBH I... to say I didn't like the DS9 MU episodes would be wrong.... lets say I didn't like it as a follow up to the TOS episode. In DS9 it didn't really MIRROR the Star Trek universe like the tos (and the enterprise) episode did.
It would have been much more fun if Benjamin Sisko was an Imperial captain expiating Bajor. And Gul Dukat would have been in Siskos place as the emissary who took over after a successful rebellion and intended to rebuild bajor. You know; the exact reverse.
But... STOs way to "fix" that makes it even worst.
when they haz our stuff, they could just as easily invade and with the iconians around, i would not discount the possibility they opened a rift themselves like they did with 8472 and deliberately provoke an incident.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
The Mirror Universe isn't actually a true reflection (if it was, then everyone who was born here wouldn't be born there) :P From a consistancy point of view, you could argue that the Mirror Universe in STO is a different one from the one we're aware of.
There was a TNG episode (Parallels?) that focused on the multiverse theory, thus there's no reason that this mirror universe couldn't just be another universe that, for some reason, wishes to invade ours.
The thing is in the MU Missions they clearly state it is the same parallel universe.
They literally state the conquered the Alliance and rebuilded the Terran Empire, including building enough Military Power to feel strong enough to just go in in conquer our universe.
Thats game canon.
Myriad Unverses: Places of Exile deals with a very different Fluidic Space to how it functions in STO
DTI covers another part of timeline functions
and has opposite personalities for Dulmer + Luscy to their appearances in STO: Needs of the many
so while the Book MU and STO MU are one and the same as far as was seen on screen is concerned, the events that occurred around the canon material is very different
Regent in this context means someone who executes executive power for someone who cannot exercise it for them selves
Mirror Worf was Regent for Emperor Kahless (he who shall return)
for spoiler text use #1b1c1f
Another question is why do we not have the ability to travel over to the Mirror Universe when it seems that the Terrans are born being able to do so.
Has aggressive has our Factions are in STO one would think that we would want to put the Terran Empire in its place by going over there and handing them their collective backsides so they would know better than to come and mess with us.
I hope that we get a full blown Mirror Universe Expansion some day that will let us freely travel between the Prime and Mirror Universe.
The Mirror Universe in STO could be so much more than it currently is.
It makes no sense what so ever for the Terrans to want to openly invade our Universe.
It would make more sense if the Terrans were covertly crossing over and trying stealing our technology.
On a side note:
One angle that I'd love to see happen in STO is for a group of Mirror Universe raiders to cross over and steal Lore's disassembled remains from the Soong foundation and reassemble him in the Mirror Universe where he would become their new Leader.
Yeah. I think these questions are on the right track.
As for the idea that it could be a different Mirror Universe, the game already addresses that. It's not. 40 years ago, there was no Terran Empire. The events of DS9's Mirror episodes are part of the STO Mirror universe's past.
Smiley's son somehow managed to recreate the Empire in less than 40 years. This is a fact in STO's story. It's not some universe where the Terrans never fell. It is a Terran Empire created in the last few deacdes, explicitly in the game.
I think the idea that Smiley's son simply stole designs is absurd.
The Terrans needed facilities and backing.
The question is how and who.
My candidates would be the Iconians, making the Terran Empire a servitor race, or the Mirror Romulans, who perhaps had something to gain by strengthening the Terrans as a buffer against the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. The only reference to Mirror Romulans hint that they might be a power that would arm or back the Terrans.
What we have right now is not necessarily a bad story but we can't pretend this empire didn't collapse (when the MU characters in game acknowledge that it did) so the question becomes how Cryptic can make the massive Terran fleets more credible while addressing where the resources came from to construct them.
We are not talking about a country, we are talking about 2 quadrants of a galaxy. No, that much can not happen in 40 years.
Isn't that essentially what I said?
Although I don't know where mirror Khaless was mentioned...
I just had a funny Idea: Let us play the "mirror" versions of our characters in PVP against "normal versions" of other players.
If we desperately need 2 sides going onto their throats, why not that?
On that note:
Now that O'Brien is dead who's leading the Terran Empire? (He died way to easy)
What are the Mirror Changelings doing, we know they must exist due to the fact that Mirror Odo existed.
I also see the Iconians has the possible backers of the Terran Empire and with the current trend of the Iconians being behind every major event in STO it would not surprise me that they would also be funding the Terrans.
I'm surprised that our Tal Shiar and the rest of the remnants of the Romulan Star Empire have not tried to cross over to the Mirror Universe and infiltrait the Mirror Romulus and Remus planets.
What better way to rebuild an Empire than to just take someone else's
Well for the Changelings: At least in the series the Wormhole wasn't discovered, so no contact with the gamma quadrant (Odo was send "here" long before the discovery on that wormhole in the prime verse too).
Also do we know if Romulus was destroyed there too? There WERE an independent faction, that much we know (since Sisko pretending to be mirror Sisko pretender to want to contact them to help the rebels)
Also: What about the Borg?
And yes, their Iconians might be active too.
In a universe where you can cover hundreds of light years in a short time conqueroring a couple of quadrants of a galaxy isn't that big of a deal. We're talking about weapons that vaporize cities with a single shot; even planets with a single shot assuming someone in the terran empire figured out the genesis device. Fly up to romulus and drop a genesis torpedo: goodbye romulus. All you need is one ultimate weapon to gain a lot of control.
Yeah. (Although there is a separate debate we could have about how the STO Novel itself was published by Pocket and written by one of their top current authors, but that's a different thread).
Thing is I offered up Diane Duane's book as an explanation to understand the motives and tactics from the MU in reference to a specific question asked.
Duane's book addresses that question specifically. And offers a really fascinating reason for how and why the MU would invade the non-mirror universe. It even expands on the entire history of that universe, and considering it came out well before the Enterprise episode, I found it really kind of cool how the history "mirrored" what Ent eventually did.
In any event, you're right. It's not the same. I was just saying that in regards to the question asked, that particular pocket book offers a very viable answer. And it's a pretty good mirror universe story. So a fun read.
This is the amount of planning behind the mirror universe in STO. Evil feds... go kill them.
If anyone can point me to a plot point or episode that does more than this, please do.
And here we have the killjoy.
Anywho, moving back onto topic, I'm honestly not sure, but I'm certainly subscribing the idea that they got their act together after the last appearance in DS9.
Why did the dominion decide to invade the alpha and beta quadrants through the wormhole when they hadn't even conquerored all of the gamma quadrant? Because that's what the story was about. They didn't need complex reasons. They like to conqueror things. Period.
Why does the terran empire want to conqueror this dimension? Who knows, maybe they want more pure humans because they're running low in their universe and think this is the best place to get them. Star trek stories were seldom about complex reasons. There's no reason the game needs to be either.
They have published a few others that are unrelated to their cohesive EU, Starfleet: Year One and Engines of Destiny spring to mind
the mirror equivalents to the places where everyone else gets their cannon fodder
for spoiler text use #1b1c1f
Everything's possible with an evil beard ... sorry but the MU was always kind of the BS-part of Star Trek, just for the fun of it ...
.. you could as well discuss the credibility of Ancient Greek Space Gods ...
To be fair the Dominions motives for the war are pretty reasonable. All of a sudden a bunch of people from across the galaxy find a wormhole into the middle of their territory and start poking around and even setting up colonies and the like.
The Dominion tell them to stop as is their right. The next thing these aliens do is ignore this and go to a planet in their space so the Dominion takes them prisoner and tries to learn about them.
Now suddenly they have what looks like a battleship in their space (we know the Galaxy class is an explorer because of TNG) so they defend themselves.