That's it guys, no point in asking otherwise. Expect another 100+ thread where we get stonewalled.
Now now, I'm sure they'll take all of our fine feedback into consideration, as usual.
...and then ignore any of it that isn't some form of "Wow, this is perfect!!!1!!!" as usual and give us more of whatever they've pre-determined we're "going to get, period"...as usual. :rolleyes:
I like that the event is happening. I don not like the fact that they are calling it the return of the mirror event. It isn't.
It is a nice diversion, and if it does what they it does, it will be a huge improvement in mission design for them.
If they are going to do things like this and create events, I think they should make an event that starts at the beginning of a month and ends at the end of the month. Make the event timed to a specific month andd then people can decide if they want to participate, plan thier play time around for it, and have enough time to actually do it and still have leeway for real life. The Anniversery Event really got my wife upset with me because I tried to be on it for all four of my characters. I did it, and was done only 3 or 4 days before the event ended. But it was hard doing that and balancing my real life responsibilities.
I also think they need to seriously sit down and rethink how each major portion of this game needs to work, and how those portions interact with each other and the end goal. If they can mclear up some of the problems, bugs and put back into the game more fun they could get this game to be strong, profitable and growing. They can even contact me free of charge if they want my help.
I like this game, a lot. I came from CoH, after its sudden demise, and then SWTOR, where I started feeling like if I didn't push A exactly 3.653 seconds after B, my entire guild would be destroyed and my great great grandnephews would feel the sting of a ball peen hammer on their reproductive parts.
So I really, really appreciated the casual feel of the game and this was in May of 2013, when it had already begun the descent into interminable grind.
But I saw the Rep projects as long term 'whenever I get there' goals. And my OCD level is low-to-middlin', so I'm sorta OK there.
And then the Summer event began. I didn't really know how the Birds worked, so I ran the strange events a few times, and got up to around 360 pictures of Q on one character before the event was over. But I couldn't get into the whole fly around thing, or the other mini-games, so I relegated my corvette to the 'maybe next year' category. I avoided the grind burn-out, and leveled my alts meanwhile with STFs and doffing and Mirror events, because those had a lot of pewpewpew and were fun.
So then came the Winter event. THIS one I latched onto. Once I understood how to cash in epohhs for marks, and the relative ease, I ran with that one HARD. The epohhs, I cashed in pretty good on those things. With 7 alts, I cycled them mercilessly, and got tons of marks and Dil on all my characters which relieved me of much of the Rep grind with so many characters. BUT I didn't bother with the Chell Gretts I don't love the look, I like keeping my old ships (and don't want to buy more ship slots, yet ) and I felt their performance would be average compared to the available ships already in game. That grind on top of the others would have grated.
And right after that, came the Obelisk grind (I think or was it before?). I thought it was a cool idea, so I ran that one on most of my characters for the free ship I think I got it on all of them, actually. Getting the ship was easy, iirc, and I grinded a few AP arrays, though I have yet to get it on all my characters.
But I haven't used the Obelisk, really, in-character. It's sitting there in my ship bank, holding warp cores and tac consoles from the Dyson rep grind.
So then came the "Grindaversary" Science ships grind. 4 runs of the mission on each character for the ship and consoles, and then the clicky game (is that right? My mind is jello.) This one I also embraced because though repetitive and mundane, it was FAST. So I could do it on 7 characters once a day and still have enough energy after sitting at a PC for 9 hours a day to actually PLAY (I considered the clicky-chasey game work.) And at the end, I got a shiny new free (sorta) ship. Seven, actually! Well worth the trouble.
(I feel like I may be mixing some of these up in order and which mini-game gets us what, but alas, like those Lee nails on the TV commercials, I Press-On.)
And this ship I DO use. On my Rom Sci AND Tac (I like the looks of the ship, and GW is my fave toy) and even on my Fed Sci (though, ugh, I find that ship fugly), but it seems to be the best Free Fed Sci ship I can figure. I enjoy the Solenae set, especially the Jumpy Sector Travel Warp Core thingy helps with Doffing.
But interesting note: I COULD have continued grinding the Qs for next year's ship, whatever that may be, to be easier to get. But I COULD NOT bring myself to do it again. When I was done, I WAS DONE. I was ground-out. Same with epohh tags when I got to the goal, I STOPPED COLD. I was emotionally unable to continue it. This is a problem, Cryptic. My satisfaction of completion was accompanied by emotional exhaustion. Please be aware of this, I think it is a serious problem.
And now we have Another grind. This one I fear. I do want it lots of Dil, Marks, a neato Doff that I'm not sure will be totally useful for me but I still want it because I may figure out later that he fits into my style but on 7 characters (I know I don't HAVE to do it, and I may brun out on this one, but it's money ) 7x~20 minutes each is almost 2 hours nonstop queuing. With a lot of coordinating (much more than KASE, and that sometimes ends without the Optional, and a lot more than Fleet Defense ), a lot of specialized ship missions within the mission (what if 5 sci ships drop into the mission will it make the Cruiser minis really tough, and will the DPS hold up?), this one is WAY more pressure than the clicky game, as menial as that seemed
Combine this with the removal of the Daily events with arbitrary occasional weekend events
Feels like I'm at work and my boss is manufacturing crises. Not a situation that engenders loyalty or goodwill.
I'd feel better if there was no time limit, or at least a more forgiving one, and it was more open-ended.
I, and others, have said this before if your players are doing an activity out of fear of loss, rather than enjoyment, you may have a short term gain at the expense of a long-term loss. Resentment is a strong emotion.
Requiring people to do 15 days of tasks in a 21-day period might sound reasonable, for a college student, or a 12 year old. Or hell, a 67 year old retiree! But for the majority of us, we have jobs and lives and obligations
I hope your metrics remember this.
TLDR: Find a way to reward players without fomenting resentment among other players. Grind After Grind is not the Way. More flexibility will help the game survive.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
This is their new money making model clear and simple.
A new grind comes out every month or so and grants a bunch of Dil. When everyone has lots, people try to convert it to Zen especially when a new zen store ship bundle is added each month. That drives the Zen price up, so people buy Zen with dollars because of the high Dil price. People looking for a flood of Dil for fleet projects or gear will also buy Zen and sell it on exchange for the high return on investment. Either way it's meant to drive people to the Zen store.
That is why they are doing this. That is how they are trying to manipulate you.
Fun cannot be calculated through the use of statistics. While money can be calculated through mathematics, the emotions behind fun and excitement cannot be measured.
Too many decisions recently appear to be based on the kind of thinking outlined above.
The GREAT GOD METRICS WHO MUST BE OBEYED seems to have taken over totally.
In between the dreadful decisions, we have what appear to be hastily organised giveaways designed to take our atention away from GGMWMBO.
The Galaxy thing for instance.
Do we really think that, after spending time getting the saucer seperation tech right, Cryptic wanted to release it as part of a bundle where they utterly failed to do simple things like fix the models?
I doubt it.
I think the Galaxy stuff was a side of the desk project that had no release date.
However, the fallout from the grindaversary was starting to filter into the metrics, so ENGAGE PANIC MODE!
And thus we end up with a touted reboot which is really a half finished side project.
I'll just make this crystal clear.
The metrics apparently decree that, the longer we sit at the game doing the same thing over and over, the more money we'll spend.
However, unless and until Cryptic introduce some kind of balance and rhythm to the grind, I'll spend no cash.
Sure I'll grind, but no money spent.
Oh, and expect the cooldown tokens that were noted around the beginning of the grindaversary to see the light of day soon.
How else to monetarise the frustration caused by another short, time gated grind that a portion of the playerbase (weekend players) have no chance at all of completing?
Too many decisions recently appear to be based on the kind of thinking outlined above.
The GREAT GOD METRICS WHO MUST BE OBEYED seems to have taken over totally.
In between the dreadful decisions, we have what appear to be hastily organised giveaways designed to take our atention away from GGMWMBO.
The Galaxy thing for instance.
Do we really think that, after spending time getting the saucer seperation tech right, Cryptic wanted to release it as part of a bundle where they utterly failed to do simple things like fix the models?
I doubt it.
I think the Galaxy stuff was a side of the desk project that had no release date.
However, the fallout from the grindaversary was starting to filter into the metrics, so ENGAGE PANIC MODE!
And thus we end up with a touted reboot which is really a half finished side project.
I'll just make this crystal clear.
The metrics apparently decree that, the longer we sit at the game doing the same thing over and over, the more money we'll spend.
However, unless and until Cryptic introduce some kind of balance and rhythm to the grind, I'll spend no cash.
Sure I'll grind, but no money spent.
Oh, and expect the cooldown tokens that were noted around the beginning of the grindaversary to see the light of day soon.
How else to monetarise the frustration caused by another short, time gated grind that a portion of the playerbase (weekend players) have no chance at all of completing?
I almost believe the "Galaxy overhaul" was something some Dev did in his free time to give that thing at least some of its deserved attention and Cryptic just milked the cow^^
Wouldn't be the first time that happens here...
Seriously though..... I can't understand how people can run out of expertise.... I have MILLIONS on all of my chars, including the Romulans. You can get 10k from mission replay of almost any mission. More with boosts.
Anyways, I thought the last iteration of the CE WAS fun, so yeah, at least some people think that limited time events ARE fun. :P
I almost believe the "Galaxy overhaul" was something some Dev did in his free time to give that thing at least some of its deserved attention and Cryptic just milked the cow^^
Wouldn't be the first time that happens here...
Wouldn't be the first time in a lot of situations.
i just can't see how devs who'd take the time and pride in their work to make the saucer sep work, would be so sloppy as to not fix the lance model.
This was done in a rush, which in one tiny sense may be a good sign.
Perhaps the metrics are not where they were predicted, and maybe, just maybe, someone at Cryptic will figure out that continuous grind, like continuous revolution, is a lot better on paper than practise.
Seriously though..... I can't understand how people can run out of expertise.... I have MILLIONS on all of my chars, including the Romulans. You can get 10k from mission replay of almost any mission. More with boosts.
Anyways, I thought the last iteration of the CE WAS fun, so yeah, at least some people think that limited time events ARE fun. :P
Not when they remove a daily event and replace it with a whenever-we-want-at-our-discretion occasional event. Not when a specific reward is contingent upon completing said event in a tight timeframe.
Many options to achieve a few types of rewards is ok; one repetitive grind to achieve one goal with a time limit is restrictive and creates a grudge.
Enough of those, and fanatics become merely loyal players, loyal players become disillusioned, and disillusioned players either stop coming to the keyboard or find other things to take up their time.
And sometimes, fanatics snap all the way to former players... which, I think, is the worst possible case, both for the game and for Cryptic's pockets.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Seriously though..... I can't understand how people can run out of expertise.... I have MILLIONS on all of my chars, including the Romulans.
I haven't managed to even get close to run out of expertise, too.
Even my Romulan that became VA last Friday (seriously, leveling is to fast btw, even with double XP I shouldn't be able to level a char on 2 evening causal playing story missions...) has almost a million now.
Anyways, I thought the last iteration of the CE WAS fun, so yeah, at least some people think that limited time events ARE fun. :P
Well.... for me its a mixed back.
I'm not opposed to events in general, I just believe Cryptic does handle that extremely poorly (like many thing TBH^^)
Its not fun the way it had been done here recently.
Constant limited time events like the last two, that take us completely out of the game are awful.
The upcoming one, including actual STO gameplay instead of Ice races and Child harassing (mini Q) seems better for me.
Still I have issues:
Time gated to some degree: yes. Why not?
But for causal players its kind of a little to strict.
If they'd do it like... well... 1 month running and 7 times to complete it would even appeal to those who only can play on weekends.
The other thing is:
We have essentially 2 kind of players even among those who play daily:
Some stick with one character, others have multiple.
The later ones feel like they get shafted since for them the daly events does not mean "yet, lets have some fun in the mirror event" it means ":rolleyes: another 30 times that f**** mirror event today". Thats why so many complain about "grind".
It wouldn't be half as bad if it were done once a day.
So if those events would reward account wide they wouldn't face that amount of criticism.
Not when they remove a daily event and replace it with a whenever-we-want-at-our-discretion occasional event. Not when a specific reward is contingent upon completing said event in a tight timeframe.
*angry rambling*
The old mirror event was so boring I rarely did it even on low level characters.
And really.... the time frame for the new one isn't that narrow. You get 3 weeks, and if you hurry you can do it in less than 2. (it's a 20hr cycle)
And really.... you don't have to do the event if you choose not to. I fail to see how a new event is bad.
Seriously though..... I can't understand how people can run out of expertise.... I have MILLIONS on all of my chars, including the Romulans. You can get 10k from mission replay of almost any mission. More with boosts.
Anyways, I thought the last iteration of the CE WAS fun, so yeah, at least some people think that limited time events ARE fun. :P
The difference being that between the first CE event and last one, you could still play CE.
Here's an idea. Post-event, keep it in game but as a daily.
Or even, put it in with an hour's cooldown. Kinda like an hourly PvE queue.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
The old mirror event was so boring I rarely did it even on low level characters.
Good for you (Lois voice)
However, some enjoyed it and some based their standard character progression on it.
You may not have enjoyed it but others did.
And really.... the time frame for the new one isn't that narrow. You get 3 weeks, and if you hurry you can do it in less than 2. (it's a 20hr cycle)
A time period which, if you can only play saturdays and sundays, is impossibly short.
Again, you may have the time but not everyone does.
They pulled this with the miniQ grind as well.
If they'd really been listening to feeback, why have they posted two events in a row that weekend players can't possibly finish?
And really.... you don't have to do the event if you choose not to. I fail to see how a new event is bad.
A new event, given ostensibly to replace an old one that was pulled, that does not cover anything like the same ground as the old one, is worthy of criticism.
It's not the event per se, I have high hopes for it as a playing experience.
It's the lack of care in the meta design.
it's the apparently studied ignorance of what players have actually typed.
Well.... for me its a mixed back.
I'm not opposed to events in general, I just believe Cryptic does handle that extremely poorly (like many thing TBH^^)
Its not fun the way it had been done here recently.
Constant limited time events like the last two, that take us completely out of the game are awful.
The upcoming one, including actual STO gameplay instead of Ice races and Child harassing (mini Q) seems better for me.
Still I have issues:
Time gated to some degree: yes. Why not?
But for causal players its kind of a little to strict.
If they'd do it like... well... 1 month running and 7 times to complete it would even appeal to those who only can play on weekends.
The other thing is:
We have essentially 2 kind of players even among those who play daily:
Some stick with one character, others have multiple.
The later ones feel like they get shafted since for them the daly events does not mean "yet, lets have some fun in the mirror event" it means ":rolleyes: another 30 times that f**** mirror event today". Thats why so many complain about "grind".
It wouldn't be half as bad if it were done once a day.
So if those events would reward account wide they wouldn't face that amount of criticism.
Um... yeah, just to put my previous comment in the proper perspective, I did the most recent CE on 12 chars. :P Some of which I had to finish leveling to get to a high enough level to participate.... DURING the event.
I don't see how they could (or would want to)make this equally accessible to people who only play once or twice a week.... Yes, it sucks that you can't get some rewards, but... so? You don't really NEED any of it, so why care?
My only complaint is that the mission seems to be going away after the event.
I would ask the team at cryptic to step back from the business models for a sec and put the common sense hat on for a sec. Now....see if anyone can dispute the following.
Game companies provide a service for a recreational activity that people do in thier spare time. The ftp model offers enhancements to that experience for voluntary cash payments. Due to the voluntary, recreational nature of this business, the following must be true...
In the long term, fun and enjoyment of the game will drive player participatiin and expenditures more than any other factor. When players face meaningless and exactly repetative busywork more than they are trying new fits, pushing greater achievement or playing new or varied content, they get frustrated, bored and eventually leave.
Metrics have their place in business but over-reliance on them leaves any organization looking too much at where they have been rather than where they are going. Short term gains are to be had from a pure metrics approach but such smothers innovation and leaves the organization rooted in the past rather than bulding the future.
I don't see how they could (or would want to)make this equally accessible to people who only play once or twice a week.... Yes, it sucks that you can't get some rewards, but... so? You don't really NEED any of it, so why care?
You know, a lot of your work arguing against those who'd criticise Cryptic on these fora, depends on a variation of the above argument.
Basically, why do players care? It's optional. You don't have to do it. Blah blah blah.
Here's a thought......
....just how healthy is it for the game long term, if a sizable proportion of the player base are encouraged to just say 'meh' everytime Cryptic do something?
The old mirror event was so boring I rarely did it even on low level characters.
And really.... the time frame for the new one isn't that narrow. You get 3 weeks, and if you hurry you can do it in less than 2. (it's a 20hr cycle)
And really.... you don't have to do the event if you choose not to. I fail to see how a new event is bad.
And what you need is the Total Perspective Vortex.
Because 1) I loved the old Mirror event. It was actually one of the most popular of the daily events, if I understand correctly. The queues usually popped right away.
and 2) You don't really understand the whole 'life' vs a 20 hr cooldown, do you? The 20 hr cooldown is so that people who run one at 11pm one day don't have to wait until 11pm the next day to run it - they can run it at 8pm ok. If you are running it every 20:01, you are the EXCEPTION and not the MAINSTREAM. You either don't have a job, or are in high school or college, or are retired, or are independently wealthy. Any of those - good for you!!
And I repeat - it's NOT a New Event. It is the replacement for a well-liked event, but on other people's terms, and forcing a particular playstyle. [well, of course, it's not 'technically' 'forcing'... but a new event that is inaccessible for completion and/or unenjoyable to the majority of players to 'replace' a well-liked common former event is a little insulting.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
My only complaint is that the mission seems to be going away after the event.
Welcome to the Club! Prepare for imminent disappointment as Cryptic proceed to say nothing because, frankly, they can't say anything. Unless they've changed their tune.
As I said; Executive meddling.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Welcome to the Club! Prepare for imminent disappointment as Cryptic proceed to say nothing because, frankly, they can't say anything. Unless they've changed their tune.
As I said; Executive meddling.
To be honest, I expects that to happen when d'angelos return was announced.
Stahl was good in making empty promises and obviously not a genius, but back then when d'angelo was arround for the first time he managed to suck every fun out of the game with his f2p transition, making the game worst with every change.
With stahl it didn't really get better, but at least it didn't permanently get downgraded.
I was willing to give him the benefit of a doubt since it was a very difficult situation back then, coming into the game and having to do the f2p transition.
But no, still the same. Seeing those events. Seeing season 9, it's all the same handwriting, and it's a bad one.
This will not get better without an new executive up there. With D'Angelo it will only get worse.
Um, what makes you think they care? Seriously.... Cryptic has no reason to cater to players that only login once or twice a week.
Just maybe the reason some people are logging in once or twice a week is because of what Cryptic is doing between stripping things away making it grind fest, not fixing the buggie engine, and taking away the Star Trek aspect of the game.
I use to login for a few hours per day doing the week but it dropped considerably after Season 8.
Just maybe the reason some people are logging in once or twice a week is because of what Cryptic is doing between stripping things away making it grind fest, not fixing the buggie engine, and taking away the Star Trek aspect of the game.
I use to login for a few hours per day doing the week but it dropped considerably after Season 8.
Not to mention the new weekend events.
I imagine a number of players have reduced how much they play during the week, preferring instead to focus on the weekends.
However, the hopefully unintended consequence of this, is that those players find other things to do instead of STO on a weekday.
Which means, in turn, that a reducing number of players come back for the weekends.
You don't really understand the whole 'life' vs a 20 hr cooldown, do you? The 20 hr cooldown is so that people who run one at 11pm one day don't have to wait until 11pm the next day to run it - they can run it at 8pm ok. If you are running it every 20:01, you are the EXCEPTION and not the MAINSTREAM. You either don't have a job, or are in high school or college, or are retired, or are independently wealthy. Any of those - good for you!!
That's a pile full of assumptions. I'm sure that at least one person doesn't fit into any of those categories and still makes the 20hr cooldown (perhaps by quickly logging in, running the mission, and logging out).
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
i really want to get that Mirror Odyssey if they let us have one then i'd have two odyssey prototype in a way one prime on mirror just like my mirror sovereign class. (which is the same as the one you get a t5 fleet starbase)
There's a whole hell of a lot of 'self projection' here.
Lots of 'I don't like this so it must be wrong'. lots of 'But *I* can't do this the way I want' and 'I liked it better the old way.' Oh and don't forget the "But I have 17 characters, this will be hell"
There's 200-odd comments here, and a lot of people have posted more than once. That's (let's be generous) 150 people, and not all are against it. That's not even a typical population of ESD let alone a representative sample.
There is a core of people here, who see themselves as the 'keeper of the flame'. You're not, get over yourself. You have 17 characters and you don't like the 'grind' - woohoo, so what. No-one forced you to make all those alts, nor were you required to. 3 characters is all you need to experience all the missions (a kdf, a fed and a rom). A dozen+ alts isn't even that common. but everything should be made simple and easy because you decided you wanted to do it with 15 personas?
Like with the Galaxy whiners, it boils down to this.
You want what you want, because you have 'a plan' that's to your benefit and you want it implemented. You don't care about anyone else, because everyone else clearly wants what you want, else they're idiots, n00bs, or cryptic apologists.
And while they're at it, Cryptic needs to keep producing new content all the time, and add lots of rewards, so you can level your characters faster, to get your overpowered stuff that you want, and easily breeze through a mission, and compete everything that isn't a 'grind', and then they need to make more stuff because the existing stuff is too easy.
You can't have it both ways, you want easy rewards, overpowered ships, and fast leveling, then you want Grind. Don't want Grind? Then you want a lot of nerfs and things made harder, and longer.
You whine about STO becoming TRIBBLE, well it's gotten that way accommodating YOUR requests.
If you don't like that some of it's being fixed, or that they're not capitulating to your constant whining, then can I suggest you go and find a game more suited to your abilities.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Comments
Now now, I'm sure they'll take all of our fine feedback into consideration, as usual.
...and then ignore any of it that isn't some form of "Wow, this is perfect!!!1!!!" as usual and give us more of whatever they've pre-determined we're "going to get, period"...as usual. :rolleyes:
My 13th is only level 42, but I'm not gonna rush level him.
Nice rewards, a new mission and an elite version too. I'm liking it already.
It is a nice diversion, and if it does what they it does, it will be a huge improvement in mission design for them.
If they are going to do things like this and create events, I think they should make an event that starts at the beginning of a month and ends at the end of the month. Make the event timed to a specific month andd then people can decide if they want to participate, plan thier play time around for it, and have enough time to actually do it and still have leeway for real life. The Anniversery Event really got my wife upset with me because I tried to be on it for all four of my characters. I did it, and was done only 3 or 4 days before the event ended. But it was hard doing that and balancing my real life responsibilities.
I also think they need to seriously sit down and rethink how each major portion of this game needs to work, and how those portions interact with each other and the end goal. If they can mclear up some of the problems, bugs and put back into the game more fun they could get this game to be strong, profitable and growing. They can even contact me free of charge if they want my help.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
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Maybe I have no choice. I can't do any major endgame stuff because lols, no expertise.
I like this game, a lot. I came from CoH, after its sudden demise, and then SWTOR, where I started feeling like if I didn't push A exactly 3.653 seconds after B, my entire guild would be destroyed and my great great grandnephews would feel the sting of a ball peen hammer on their reproductive parts.
So I really, really appreciated the casual feel of the game and this was in May of 2013, when it had already begun the descent into interminable grind.
But I saw the Rep projects as long term 'whenever I get there' goals. And my OCD level is low-to-middlin', so I'm sorta OK there.
And then the Summer event began. I didn't really know how the Birds worked, so I ran the strange events a few times, and got up to around 360 pictures of Q on one character before the event was over. But I couldn't get into the whole fly around thing, or the other mini-games, so I relegated my corvette to the 'maybe next year' category. I avoided the grind burn-out, and leveled my alts meanwhile with STFs and doffing and Mirror events, because those had a lot of pewpewpew and were fun.
So then came the Winter event. THIS one I latched onto. Once I understood how to cash in epohhs for marks, and the relative ease, I ran with that one HARD. The epohhs, I cashed in pretty good on those things. With 7 alts, I cycled them mercilessly, and got tons of marks and Dil on all my characters which relieved me of much of the Rep grind with so many characters. BUT I didn't bother with the Chell Gretts I don't love the look, I like keeping my old ships (and don't want to buy more ship slots, yet ) and I felt their performance would be average compared to the available ships already in game. That grind on top of the others would have grated.
And right after that, came the Obelisk grind (I think or was it before?). I thought it was a cool idea, so I ran that one on most of my characters for the free ship I think I got it on all of them, actually. Getting the ship was easy, iirc, and I grinded a few AP arrays, though I have yet to get it on all my characters.
But I haven't used the Obelisk, really, in-character. It's sitting there in my ship bank, holding warp cores and tac consoles from the Dyson rep grind.
So then came the "Grindaversary" Science ships grind. 4 runs of the mission on each character for the ship and consoles, and then the clicky game (is that right? My mind is jello.) This one I also embraced because though repetitive and mundane, it was FAST. So I could do it on 7 characters once a day and still have enough energy after sitting at a PC for 9 hours a day to actually PLAY (I considered the clicky-chasey game work.) And at the end, I got a shiny new free (sorta) ship. Seven, actually! Well worth the trouble.
(I feel like I may be mixing some of these up in order and which mini-game gets us what, but alas, like those Lee nails on the TV commercials, I Press-On.)
And this ship I DO use. On my Rom Sci AND Tac (I like the looks of the ship, and GW is my fave toy) and even on my Fed Sci (though, ugh, I find that ship fugly), but it seems to be the best Free Fed Sci ship I can figure. I enjoy the Solenae set, especially the Jumpy Sector Travel Warp Core thingy helps with Doffing.
But interesting note: I COULD have continued grinding the Qs for next year's ship, whatever that may be, to be easier to get. But I COULD NOT bring myself to do it again. When I was done, I WAS DONE. I was ground-out. Same with epohh tags when I got to the goal, I STOPPED COLD. I was emotionally unable to continue it. This is a problem, Cryptic. My satisfaction of completion was accompanied by emotional exhaustion. Please be aware of this, I think it is a serious problem.
And now we have Another grind. This one I fear. I do want it lots of Dil, Marks, a neato Doff that I'm not sure will be totally useful for me but I still want it because I may figure out later that he fits into my style but on 7 characters (I know I don't HAVE to do it, and I may brun out on this one, but it's money ) 7x~20 minutes each is almost 2 hours nonstop queuing. With a lot of coordinating (much more than KASE, and that sometimes ends without the Optional, and a lot more than Fleet Defense ), a lot of specialized ship missions within the mission (what if 5 sci ships drop into the mission will it make the Cruiser minis really tough, and will the DPS hold up?), this one is WAY more pressure than the clicky game, as menial as that seemed
Combine this with the removal of the Daily events with arbitrary occasional weekend events
(playfunplayfunplayfunRUNREALHARDDONTSTOPUNTILYOUREDONEplayfunplayfunplayfunDOITAGAINSHINYGOGOGOGOplayfunplayfunplayfun )
Feels like I'm at work and my boss is manufacturing crises. Not a situation that engenders loyalty or goodwill.
I'd feel better if there was no time limit, or at least a more forgiving one, and it was more open-ended.
I, and others, have said this before if your players are doing an activity out of fear of loss, rather than enjoyment, you may have a short term gain at the expense of a long-term loss. Resentment is a strong emotion.
Requiring people to do 15 days of tasks in a 21-day period might sound reasonable, for a college student, or a 12 year old. Or hell, a 67 year old retiree! But for the majority of us, we have jobs and lives and obligations
I hope your metrics remember this.
TLDR: Find a way to reward players without fomenting resentment among other players. Grind After Grind is not the Way. More flexibility will help the game survive.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
A new grind comes out every month or so and grants a bunch of Dil. When everyone has lots, people try to convert it to Zen especially when a new zen store ship bundle is added each month. That drives the Zen price up, so people buy Zen with dollars because of the high Dil price. People looking for a flood of Dil for fleet projects or gear will also buy Zen and sell it on exchange for the high return on investment. Either way it's meant to drive people to the Zen store.
That is why they are doing this. That is how they are trying to manipulate you.
Too many decisions recently appear to be based on the kind of thinking outlined above.
The GREAT GOD METRICS WHO MUST BE OBEYED seems to have taken over totally.
In between the dreadful decisions, we have what appear to be hastily organised giveaways designed to take our atention away from GGMWMBO.
The Galaxy thing for instance.
Do we really think that, after spending time getting the saucer seperation tech right, Cryptic wanted to release it as part of a bundle where they utterly failed to do simple things like fix the models?
I doubt it.
I think the Galaxy stuff was a side of the desk project that had no release date.
However, the fallout from the grindaversary was starting to filter into the metrics, so ENGAGE PANIC MODE!
And thus we end up with a touted reboot which is really a half finished side project.
I'll just make this crystal clear.
The metrics apparently decree that, the longer we sit at the game doing the same thing over and over, the more money we'll spend.
However, unless and until Cryptic introduce some kind of balance and rhythm to the grind, I'll spend no cash.
Sure I'll grind, but no money spent.
Oh, and expect the cooldown tokens that were noted around the beginning of the grindaversary to see the light of day soon.
How else to monetarise the frustration caused by another short, time gated grind that a portion of the playerbase (weekend players) have no chance at all of completing?
I almost believe the "Galaxy overhaul" was something some Dev did in his free time to give that thing at least some of its deserved attention and Cryptic just milked the cow^^
Wouldn't be the first time that happens here...
Seriously though..... I can't understand how people can run out of expertise.... I have MILLIONS on all of my chars, including the Romulans. You can get 10k from mission replay of almost any mission. More with boosts.
Anyways, I thought the last iteration of the CE WAS fun, so yeah, at least some people think that limited time events ARE fun. :P
My character Tsin'xing
Wouldn't be the first time in a lot of situations.
i just can't see how devs who'd take the time and pride in their work to make the saucer sep work, would be so sloppy as to not fix the lance model.
This was done in a rush, which in one tiny sense may be a good sign.
Perhaps the metrics are not where they were predicted, and maybe, just maybe, someone at Cryptic will figure out that continuous grind, like continuous revolution, is a lot better on paper than practise.
Not when they remove a daily event and replace it with a whenever-we-want-at-our-discretion occasional event. Not when a specific reward is contingent upon completing said event in a tight timeframe.
Many options to achieve a few types of rewards is ok; one repetitive grind to achieve one goal with a time limit is restrictive and creates a grudge.
Enough of those, and fanatics become merely loyal players, loyal players become disillusioned, and disillusioned players either stop coming to the keyboard or find other things to take up their time.
And sometimes, fanatics snap all the way to former players... which, I think, is the worst possible case, both for the game and for Cryptic's pockets.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
I haven't managed to even get close to run out of expertise, too.
Even my Romulan that became VA last Friday (seriously, leveling is to fast btw, even with double XP I shouldn't be able to level a char on 2 evening causal playing story missions...) has almost a million now.
Well.... for me its a mixed back.
I'm not opposed to events in general, I just believe Cryptic does handle that extremely poorly (like many thing TBH^^)
Its not fun the way it had been done here recently.
Constant limited time events like the last two, that take us completely out of the game are awful.
The upcoming one, including actual STO gameplay instead of Ice races and Child harassing (mini Q) seems better for me.
Still I have issues:
Time gated to some degree: yes. Why not?
But for causal players its kind of a little to strict.
If they'd do it like... well... 1 month running and 7 times to complete it would even appeal to those who only can play on weekends.
The other thing is:
We have essentially 2 kind of players even among those who play daily:
Some stick with one character, others have multiple.
The later ones feel like they get shafted since for them the daly events does not mean "yet, lets have some fun in the mirror event" it means ":rolleyes: another 30 times that f**** mirror event today". Thats why so many complain about "grind".
It wouldn't be half as bad if it were done once a day.
So if those events would reward account wide they wouldn't face that amount of criticism.
And really.... the time frame for the new one isn't that narrow. You get 3 weeks, and if you hurry you can do it in less than 2. (it's a 20hr cycle)
And really.... you don't have to do the event if you choose not to. I fail to see how a new event is bad.
My character Tsin'xing
The difference being that between the first CE event and last one, you could still play CE.
Here's an idea. Post-event, keep it in game but as a daily.
Or even, put it in with an hour's cooldown. Kinda like an hourly PvE queue.
Good for you (Lois voice)
However, some enjoyed it and some based their standard character progression on it.
You may not have enjoyed it but others did.
A time period which, if you can only play saturdays and sundays, is impossibly short.
Again, you may have the time but not everyone does.
They pulled this with the miniQ grind as well.
If they'd really been listening to feeback, why have they posted two events in a row that weekend players can't possibly finish?
A new event, given ostensibly to replace an old one that was pulled, that does not cover anything like the same ground as the old one, is worthy of criticism.
It's not the event per se, I have high hopes for it as a playing experience.
It's the lack of care in the meta design.
it's the apparently studied ignorance of what players have actually typed.
I don't see how they could (or would want to)make this equally accessible to people who only play once or twice a week.... Yes, it sucks that you can't get some rewards, but... so? You don't really NEED any of it, so why care?
My only complaint is that the mission seems to be going away after the event.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Game companies provide a service for a recreational activity that people do in thier spare time. The ftp model offers enhancements to that experience for voluntary cash payments. Due to the voluntary, recreational nature of this business, the following must be true...
In the long term, fun and enjoyment of the game will drive player participatiin and expenditures more than any other factor. When players face meaningless and exactly repetative busywork more than they are trying new fits, pushing greater achievement or playing new or varied content, they get frustrated, bored and eventually leave.
Metrics have their place in business but over-reliance on them leaves any organization looking too much at where they have been rather than where they are going. Short term gains are to be had from a pure metrics approach but such smothers innovation and leaves the organization rooted in the past rather than bulding the future.
Typing from phone so apologies for any typos
Thanks
A concerned fan
You know, a lot of your work arguing against those who'd criticise Cryptic on these fora, depends on a variation of the above argument.
Basically, why do players care? It's optional. You don't have to do it. Blah blah blah.
Here's a thought......
....just how healthy is it for the game long term, if a sizable proportion of the player base are encouraged to just say 'meh' everytime Cryptic do something?
And what you need is the Total Perspective Vortex.
Because 1) I loved the old Mirror event. It was actually one of the most popular of the daily events, if I understand correctly. The queues usually popped right away.
and 2) You don't really understand the whole 'life' vs a 20 hr cooldown, do you? The 20 hr cooldown is so that people who run one at 11pm one day don't have to wait until 11pm the next day to run it - they can run it at 8pm ok. If you are running it every 20:01, you are the EXCEPTION and not the MAINSTREAM. You either don't have a job, or are in high school or college, or are retired, or are independently wealthy. Any of those - good for you!!
And I repeat - it's NOT a New Event. It is the replacement for a well-liked event, but on other people's terms, and forcing a particular playstyle. [well, of course, it's not 'technically' 'forcing'... but a new event that is inaccessible for completion and/or unenjoyable to the majority of players to 'replace' a well-liked common former event is a little insulting.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
On recent events? Nothing at all.
Cryptic have gone out of their way to demonstrate they really don't care.
But thats not the right question.
The right question is should they care.
And the answer to that is yes.
Businesses of all stripes succeed, not by reducing the size of their client base, but by increasing it.
A policy of overt discrimination against a portion of the player base is crazy.
Welcome to the Club! Prepare for imminent disappointment as Cryptic proceed to say nothing because, frankly, they can't say anything. Unless they've changed their tune.
As I said; Executive meddling.
To be honest, I expects that to happen when d'angelos return was announced.
Stahl was good in making empty promises and obviously not a genius, but back then when d'angelo was arround for the first time he managed to suck every fun out of the game with his f2p transition, making the game worst with every change.
With stahl it didn't really get better, but at least it didn't permanently get downgraded.
I was willing to give him the benefit of a doubt since it was a very difficult situation back then, coming into the game and having to do the f2p transition.
But no, still the same. Seeing those events. Seeing season 9, it's all the same handwriting, and it's a bad one.
This will not get better without an new executive up there. With D'Angelo it will only get worse.
Just maybe the reason some people are logging in once or twice a week is because of what Cryptic is doing between stripping things away making it grind fest, not fixing the buggie engine, and taking away the Star Trek aspect of the game.
I use to login for a few hours per day doing the week but it dropped considerably after Season 8.
Not to mention the new weekend events.
I imagine a number of players have reduced how much they play during the week, preferring instead to focus on the weekends.
However, the hopefully unintended consequence of this, is that those players find other things to do instead of STO on a weekday.
Which means, in turn, that a reducing number of players come back for the weekends.
Every other week.
That's a pile full of assumptions. I'm sure that at least one person doesn't fit into any of those categories and still makes the 20hr cooldown (perhaps by quickly logging in, running the mission, and logging out).
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Lots of 'I don't like this so it must be wrong'. lots of 'But *I* can't do this the way I want' and 'I liked it better the old way.' Oh and don't forget the "But I have 17 characters, this will be hell"
There's 200-odd comments here, and a lot of people have posted more than once. That's (let's be generous) 150 people, and not all are against it. That's not even a typical population of ESD let alone a representative sample.
There is a core of people here, who see themselves as the 'keeper of the flame'. You're not, get over yourself. You have 17 characters and you don't like the 'grind' - woohoo, so what. No-one forced you to make all those alts, nor were you required to. 3 characters is all you need to experience all the missions (a kdf, a fed and a rom). A dozen+ alts isn't even that common. but everything should be made simple and easy because you decided you wanted to do it with 15 personas?
Like with the Galaxy whiners, it boils down to this.
You want what you want, because you have 'a plan' that's to your benefit and you want it implemented. You don't care about anyone else, because everyone else clearly wants what you want, else they're idiots, n00bs, or cryptic apologists.
And while they're at it, Cryptic needs to keep producing new content all the time, and add lots of rewards, so you can level your characters faster, to get your overpowered stuff that you want, and easily breeze through a mission, and compete everything that isn't a 'grind', and then they need to make more stuff because the existing stuff is too easy.
You can't have it both ways, you want easy rewards, overpowered ships, and fast leveling, then you want Grind. Don't want Grind? Then you want a lot of nerfs and things made harder, and longer.
You whine about STO becoming TRIBBLE, well it's gotten that way accommodating YOUR requests.
If you don't like that some of it's being fixed, or that they're not capitulating to your constant whining, then can I suggest you go and find a game more suited to your abilities.
Methinks the pot calleth the kettle black...
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.