SWTOR: Horrible "F2P" system (seriously, you need to pay for, like, everything), Run by EA, 'nuff said.
STO: Bit of a grind at endgame, Epic new content, AWESOME F2P system, quite a few bugs, power creep, devs may not reply much, but on TOR forums, devs barely go on.
In summary, STO is a better game than SWTOR, which is a P2W pile of horse manure.
Sto is definitely my favorite mmo and is probably the best mmo out there BUT if swtor will ever get its head out of its but it will probably be stos biggest competition. Wow is going to die. It refuses to change in a world where mmos like sto and swtor and because of this it simply can't survive. No one game will be the wow kill it will just commit suicide but until then from my experience wow is actually a good mmo it just can't compare well against sto.
Thought I would chime in and agree with the OP. I have played a laundry list of MMOs. Some better than others. This one stands above all of those with only CoH/CoV in second.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
This is certainly the best F2P MMO I've tried. I wouldn't call it the best one, since each has different things they are best at. It's certainly fun though, which is the important thing.
I like STO because getting to max level was carefree and the endgame is pretty casual once you get the hang of it. Other games made me team up to finish the storyline and a lot of times that meant relying on really annoying people. PUGs here are better in my experience.
That said season 8 and 8.5 did not interest me in slightest so if season 9 is lame I might take break.
I agree OP, and another thing you forgot to mention is that STO is one of the few games where you can earn good amounts of cash shop currency in game and allow you to buy unlocks and ships without spending a dime. Other MMO's like Lotro allow you to earn cash shop currency but you get basically nothing and it takes several characters and a lot of time to get enough to get anything worthwhile.
Don't get me wrong. STO has a laundry list of problems, many of them completely arbitrary and easily fixable. But in spite of it's myriad issues, after about a half a year of bouncing from MMO to MMO, I can safely say that Star Trek Online stands tall as the best MMO on the market, and here's why:
1. What's in a name? A lot actually.
I can name my captain whatever I want. That might seem like a silly thing to put as No. 1 but after seeing 50 variations of XXXSUPER_HAXORS_360NOSCOPES_1997XXX it makes me really happy to be able to name a character "Steve Buscemi" and call it a day. As an added perk, it's easier to see your captain as an actual character in a story if they have a real name. It's hard to be immersed in a story if you're characters name is ULTIMATE90SGIRL27.
Bonus Round: Want to change your name in STO? It's about $4 USD. In TERA? About $10. Not even kidding.
Thats definitely a big one. Not having a Name I like on a character was actually a reason why I didn't even get STARTED on some MMOs.
Seriously, there are at least 5 mmos I installed making test accounts, going to character creation, creating a character, trying 20 names without success, leaving character creation, uninstalling the game.
And about the change fee, I didn't play WOW myself but an ex girlfriend on mine stated its costs about 20 there.
If I'm bored, I can walk up to any tailor in any social zone and immediately change my captain into a completely different character if I so wish. Sure it costs a little bit of Energy Credits, but you can get them without trying. In other MMO's I've tried? Be prepared to fork over $10 or even $20 USD every time you feel like wearing a different haircut.
3. Fear the Tux. Fear it.
In STO, what armour you have on has no impact on what you actually look like. In fact, other than Champions, APB Reloaded, and the now defunct CoH/CoV I don't know of any other MMO's that do this. In every other MMO, it's always "Too bad that 10th level armour looks so cool with it's gold flame patterns, it's stats are terrible compared to that 30th level potato sack with the all the high res texture quality of mud.
Another one of the things I really like, yes.
Guild wars 2 is at least CLOSER there, when you could use any visual on any armor with a merge item, but the sto was is definitely better.
But here is the downside: Its still another half finished feature.
Weapons can't be customized, the editor is permanently broken in some way ect...
4. Time limits are terrible.
In far, far too many MMO's, items you earn are temporary. Felt like taking a break? Wanted to play something else for a little while? Too bad. It's been 30 day's since you last logged out and all your best items/costumes have disappeared. Don't have enough money to buy them again? Time to grind for them all over again~! At least the time limits in STO GIVE you stuff.
Never played an MMO with that.
I'd probably quit an mmo introducing that.... "probably" because 2 years ago I said I'd never play an MMO with lock boxes either.
(Well I actually didn't play STO for that reason for 2 years and wouldn't buy a Key if my live depended on it but still.... its a HUGE downside)
6. Devs that listen.
Okay, okay, they're not perfect, and a lot of requests go ignored. (William Ware Theiss costumes? Where are they!?!?!) But they do visit the forums, and it's fairly easy to talk to them if you know where to look. Sure, it might take them 3 1/2 years but they do listen.
And I think I'll stop it here. I've given enough ammo for the trolls to blow over for now. :P
1: Free to play. I don't feel obligated to log in to "get my moneys worth" out of some sub.
2: Everything in game can be acquired without real money. And more importantly, not even in the bull TRIBBLE sense like it is with Eve where you spend so much time grinding a resource much of which goes towards your sub or just staying afloat. Or other f2p mmo's where you can, technically acquire something without spending cash, but realistically you'd be grinding for a very VERY long time. The KDF in STO in contrast has made all the goodies available to me at a very accommodating pace.
1) The ships. Like SD Gundam Capsule Fighter and its draw of allowing players to play as their favorite Mobile Suits, STO allows me to play my favorite ships.
Even if most of them are Federation. And Cruisers.
2) The story. I haven't seen much of Star Trek in ages and playing here's drawn me back to it in style. Heck, slowly, but surely, I've been watching the series on Netflix (though I started with ST:TMP first. That was my first foray into ST)
3) The model. I agree, STO's F2P model is very accomodating. I rarely buy anything unless I absolutely need it (BOFF space or ship space) or I think it's neat (any random ship)
Only thing I don't like:
This message board, less it's looks and more it's people. The rampant negativity's really draining my enthusiasm here.
OP, thank you for your comments. I'm not a "gamer" and have no experience in other games. I play STO because I am a Star Trek fan. It's a blast and I'm loving it. Too many "hate" threads make me start to believe this game won't be around long. Your comments give me hope...
CM
Maybe the following will help to see the "hate" in a new light. It did me.
On Getting Criticism:
by Raph Koster
Lately I have been working on multiple new games. And whenever you are working on games, of course, you get people to try them, and a lot of them dont like what they see.
Ive gotten a lot of criticism over the years, and I havent always taken it the right way. These days, criticism comes from all directions, and work is often shared before its really done. It can be hard to know what to listen to and when to stick to your guns.
Ultima Online is a Hall of Fame game. It averaged 6/10 in reviews. Star Wars Galaxies got a famously mixed reception, and closed down a while back; I still get fan mail.
So heres my takeaways from all those years of being told that my work sucks:
Everyone who dislikes your work is right.
This is the hardest pill to swallow. Ive never gotten a piece of feedback that was wrong. You see, you cant deny a player their unique experience. Whatever they felt, was true. For them. And something in your work triggered it.
It is useless, and worse, actually self-defeating, to attempt to deny the critique. Sure, there are sometimes reviews that seem spiteful, unfair, and the rest. But the vast majority of the time, people are giving their honest reaction.
And the bottom line is, you put the game out there in order to get reactions. If it were not for reactions, you could have just kept the game in your drawer and gotten everything you needed out of it.
The criticism that is useful is that which helps you do it better.
People make games for different reasons. Some do it just because it is fun. Some do it as a form of personal expression. Some have a message to get across, and some are out to make money to put food on the table.
Whatever your goal is, doing it better is held in common. That sense of craftsmanship is the common ground that unites us all. Do what you do better, serve the work better, and you get to do it again.
That means there are two aspects of your work that you want to hear about the most. What you did right, and what you did wrong.
Nothings perfect.
All our babies seem perfect until that first player touches them. We have to learn they are not. Nothing is. People who point out flaws are just pointing out reality. If you cant see the flaws in your own work, you probably need to get some distance. You cant do your best work if you cannot get that distance, because you will learn to gloss over problems. It is amazing how they will vanish into a blind spot.
In my case, I often have to leave stuff sit for a long time. A year, or more. The fastest way to short-circuit this process is to stand behind someone who tries to play my game, and shut up and say nothing. Its awesome: suddenly everything in it sucks! Then I furiously take notes.
The fact is that to do creative work is to know that most of what you do is ****. And we feel that way because we know we can do better. Honestly, if you arent pushing the boundaries of what you can do, youre probably not working hard enough. And working at the edge means a lot of TRIBBLE-ups.
You often have to choose between your ideals and your message.
One of the commonest pieces of feedback I get is that I am choosing some philosophical ideal over the players experience. It might be getting wedded to an aesthetic or visual I love that is just confusing the issue. It might be sticking with PvP for too long in order to serve an ideal of virtual citizenship, not paying attention to how many players are being chased out of the game.
The irony here, of course, is that if I cant make the players experience positive enough, my ideal is failing to reach them anyway. And what good is it then?
It doesnt mean I have to give up on the philosophical ideal. But it does mean that there are many many ways to compromise, and not all of them leave you compromised. In fact, being uncompromising may be the least successful way to achieve your artistic goal.
You have to dig to get the gold.
Most feedback you get isnt going to be from fellow practitioners. Even when it is, they are not going to know as much about the specific ways in which you did things, the tools you used, the practices you follow, to be able to pinpoint exactly whats wrong without a pretty deep dive.
This means that usually, when someone tells you that something is wrong or broken, its going to be wrong. But wrong in the sense that it will be imprecise. You need to find out what the problem is underlying the problem. In other words, the symptoms described will almost always be right, and the diagnosis will often be wrong.
Dont discard the feedback because of this. Look at it as a door you need to push on. Dig deeper and find out what the real issue is.
Good feedback is detailed.
Sometimes you get a piece of feedback that is highly specific. It offers alternate word choices. It tells you the basics like youre an idiot. It offers suggestions that are likely things you considered and discarded. It rewrites the plot for you. It feels like a rug burn: condescending, a checklist of everything wrong. You walk away feeling like this is the worst feedback ever.
It isnt, though. Its the best.
Look past what may feel like condescension. This sort of detail is impossible for someone who has not engaged fully with your work. The sign of a critic who does not care is brevity, not detail. Its dismissal.
Now, all the other caveats about whether or not this feedback is right still apply. It can be detailed and not right. But never dismiss serious thought.
People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is. Especially watch out for the ones who tell you that nobody understands your genius.
Honestly, this is going to sound horrible, but self-doubt is one of your most powerful tools for craftsmanship. None of the designers you admire feel self-confident about their work in that way. None of them think that they are awesome. They all suffer from impostor complexes the size of the Titanic.
I am not saying that you need to lack confidence in yourself. (Heck, youll never put anything out if thats the case! You need to have the arrogance to assume anyone will care in the first place). I am saying that nobody is ever done learning, and people who tell you you have arrived will give you a sense of complacency. You should never be complacent about your art.
Someone asked for feedback will always find something wrong.
This is super simple. When someone is asked to critique something, they will feel like they have failed if they dont find something wrong. So everyone will always find something, even if theres nothing major to fix.
That doesnt mean that the thing they mention is wrong. If the only feedback you get from multiple people is the same minor thing, you should feel pretty good!
Good work may not have an audience.
This is a sad truth. There is no correlation between quality and popularity. You may make something that is sophisticated, subtle, expressive, brilliant, and lose out to what is shallow and facile and brash. Oh well. And that really is the right attitude to have about it, too: oh well. Getting bitter about it is pointless.
That said, dont underestimate the skill required in being simple, polished, and accessible. Dense and rich is easy. Simple is hard. You denigrate pop at your peril.
Any feedback that comes with suggestions for improvement is awesome.
Thats because it means the person offering the criticism actually thought about your goals. So either you get avenues to explore that assist you in your artistic goal, or you get told that your goal is invisible to an audience! Both are highly valuable information.
If you agree with the criticism, say thank you. If you disagree, say fair enough, and thank you.
Complaining about a critique, or about a bad review, is utterly pointless. You cant deny the subjective experience of the reviewer. You also have to be thankful that they paid enough attention to actually say anything at all. The fact is that indifference is the enemy, not engagement, even if that engagement doesnt get the results you want.
Youre going to face way more indifference in your career than anything else. There are a lot of people out there working really hard, and they all want the audience attention that you do. Always be grateful for the attention. Someone takes the time to let you know what they thought? Thats already one in a thousand. They cared.
You are not your work.
Above all, dont forget this. Oh, be personally invested, of course. Your art will be poorer if you are not. But every little ship we launch is just our imperfect crafting of the moment. And we move on. We create again, and again. Each can only ever express a fragment, a tiny fraction of ourselves. And if you are trying to always improve in your craft and your art, then every old fragment, everything out there in the world already, thats old news. You are on the next thing. Your next work, thats who you are. Not the work that exists, but the work that does not yet.
So if someone savages it, who cares? That was yesterday. Its not who you are now.
Hold on to that, because a lot of people cant separate the work from the artist. Including a lot of artists.
Thats all Ive got.
And really, this post is as much for myself as it is for anyone else. Because we all need reminding.
I haven't played enough MMOs to say how it stands up, but it's definitely the best free-to-play game I've played. It's a pricing model I usually hate and even examples of "good" pricing often feel exploitative to me, but STO is actually pretty fair with the dilithium exchange. I can play a few hours a day, maybe even less, and earn enough from that to get anything I want from the C-store in a few weeks. It's awesome.
I do feel the pricing overvalues some items and undervalues others, but it's hardly the disconnect that most other F2P games have, where I don't have to option to buy premium items without cash, or if an exchange exists it's not fair at all. STO is incredibly good in this regard, and it deserves a lot more praise than it gets for it.
I agree that STO's F2P model is better than most - I think that's partly due to the fact that games which were designed from the start as F2P are "better optimized" for it, which from a player perspective tends to make them worse to play. The intersection of the various currencies (Zen, dil, Lobi and EC) makes for a much more dynamic economy, with multiple ways to get the things we want, and all of them are useful. I don't think this would have been possible if it had been designed as F2P from the start.
Also, not having to pay "rent" to maintain the group or personal base is one thing I really appreciate after my previous main MMO, City of Heroes. I can take a break and not have to run around powering everything back on after coming back - it's all right where I left it.
Sure this game can use some polish. and more polish. Ok we need a lot of polish. That is the big thing this game lacks.
One thing I appreciate in this game is the freebies they do give away. The breen ships and risian corvette are the best example of this. They are the equivalent of lock box ship given away for free. They could have put them in a lock box. They could have put them in the c-store of lobi store. The grind for them is minimal compared to grinding the ec to buy one on the exchange.
There is customer appreciation at cryptic. I mention the free ships because ships is sto's main money maker and when they give one of that caliber to anyone for free you gotta really thank them for it.
Try World of tanks. Every year they give away a tank. A freebie tier 2 tank. Out of 10 tiers. I'm sorry STO is the only game I've seen where they make you do what a 2 week grind and they hand you out of the box an end game worthy ship? Sorry no other game compares to that.
And hell when I was here when they went F2P live and did the 2 year anniversary and gave me the Ody. It was my main ship for a LONG time till I could invest some coin of the realm.
I've played a few games myself. Battlestar Galactica, World of tanks/planes, War thunder, Guild wars, Pirates of the Burning sea, War frames, star wars the old republic[such a let down], neverwinter.
Only 3 I keep playing are Tanks, this and warfarmes. It's one of the best, and the most forgiving and most giving games around.
Do they need more polsih? Sure, what online game doesn't? But it's a damn sight better than most hanging around. And even if Star citizen kicks off and promises everything, they say, I'll still probably log into STO because, only place I get to run around in a star fleet uniform or kdf or romulan and go play.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Aye, that was the one I was refering to, did not had the link anymore. Should be required reading for everybody even just considering starting in the MMO bussiness.
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Do they need more polsih? Sure, what online game doesn't? But it's a damn sight better than most hanging around. And even if Star citizen kicks off and promises everything, they say, I'll still probably log into STO because, only place I get to run around in a star fleet uniform or kdf or romulan and go play.
Also in STO you're not restricted to fly only shuttles/fighterpets/freighters with ships like Tuffli / Cell ship being top-of-the-line playerships :P
For those of us with full-time jobs & a home life, life is simply too short to play multiple MMO's! I came to STO because some of my long-time gaming friends on another game server were so enthusiastic about it, and because I've apparently been a trekker my whole life. So this is the only MMO I will likely ever play, and only the second online multiplayer game for me, ever.
That said, I have become smitten (hard!) with the whole immersive experience, though I look forward to finishing some of the bigger grinds (reputation systems & fleet projects), and just enjoying the multiplayer experience in a game at least somewhat based on rational science, instead of magic & sorcery. The richness of detail & ship/equipment/skill/personalization options is excellent, there is content enough for all but the most jaded veterans, and most surprisingly (to me), I can still run the game smoothly most of the time on my 10-year-old computer! (Yes, it's been updated many times.)
Sure, the value-for-money equation leaves somthing to be desired in the C-store and Lobi shop, event grinds are somewhat annoying, and the many holes in game functions and item parity are disappointing, but I expect to be here for quite some time. STO even gives me a stronger motivation to finally upgrade my comp... :P
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Try World of tanks. Every year they give away a tank. A freebie tier 2 tank. Out of 10 tiers. I'm sorry STO is the only game I've seen where they make you do what a 2 week grind and they hand you out of the box an end game worthy ship? Sorry no other game compares to that.
Let me tell you a story of OG Planet's 2012 Summer Contest. It was some vacation bingo type thing: You played one of their games (for me, it was SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online), did something that would qualify you for a mark and you'd get a certain prize and if you played it for 25 days straight, you'd get the grand prize for that game. For SDGO it was the not-yet-released-at-the-time Heavyarms Gundam (Endless Waltz). The thing you had to do with play 5 death matches a day, which was, about 30 minutes a day. Simple, right?
Now, there were two things that went wrong here. First was the fact that many didn't read the rules. They thought it was just 25 days flat, not 25 days in a row. Thus, many people had lost the grand prize because they stopped partway through. Even worse, in the middle of the event was the June 2012 Derecho that hit the East Coast. Thus, not only was there people who missed out because they didn't read the instructions, there were people who missed out because of Mother Nature. The complaints were so bad, OG Planet was forced to give out Consolation Prizes.
Say what you will about the Grinderversary, there's always something worse.
I agree with the OP 110%. I've tried several other MMOs in the past few months and none of them have encouraged me to stay with them for the exact reasons the OP gives (plus more, of course). The end result of the control given is you can craft your character to a far greater extent than the others (bar, perhaps, Second Life. But I'd sooner give it the label 'deeply concerning' than MMO). I'm really glad that the MMO of my favourite series is also my favourite MMO. We all have things we complain about, it's natural to, but at the end of the day it will always keep me coming back. Thanks devs!
p.s. my spell check keeps changing devs to debs! Is there a dev called Debs?
Try World of tanks. Every year they give away a tank. A freebie tier 2 tank. Out of 10 tiers. I'm sorry STO is the only game I've seen where they make you do what a 2 week grind and they hand you out of the box an end game worthy ship? Sorry no other game compares to that.
I would not say "best", but I would agree to one of the better MMOs out there, despite PWE being involved (Try leveling in Forsaken World, it has awful dead zones for level XP).
My main MMOs are;
Star Trek Online / Neverwinter Online (Champions Online occasionally)
World of Tanks / Planes
Mechwarrior Online
Planetside 2
Warframe
I tend to cycle around these, though STO gets more attention than the others and CO is currently uninstalled (disk space reasons).
Those with a discerning eye will notice, all the above listed games have something in common. They are all games that you can pick up, play for a bit and move on. Then come back to them at anytime - without any problems or the feeling you have been left behind or needing to relearn the game again.
Simple to learn, simple to play, easy to enjoy - the motto of the casual gamer
My non MMO games follow the same pattern (ME3 multiplayer, Tribes Ascend, DoW2 Last Stand mode, Warhammer: Space Marine multiplayer)
(Side note, STO, PS2, WoT/P are the games I have spent money in)
It definitely has one of the best F2P models I've ever seen.
Sometimes I try to look around for some other F2P games to play every now and then, and I always compare their models to STO only to find that they fall short. By a lot. Makes it hard to look at anything else. :P
Incredible that there are still people out there that felt under the "F2P" excuse lol. Precisely, when a game become f2p , their winnings grow exponentially. They gain a lot more money now thatn before the f2p thing. By far lol. So, no the game is not really "f2p" because a lot of people waste a lot of zen month by month, and its far more than when the game wasnt f2p. The only difference is, they have more freedom, since they almost dont need to worry about fixing bugs, for example.
I will say STO is one of the best, but its far from being the BEST. Not until cryptic fixes all the bugs that are making the game really frustrating so many times. Because keeping a game free of bugs (there will be always bugs here and there, but the quantity of bugs that STO atesorates is just incredible) is one of the most important things on any mmorpg, and it doesnt materr if it is fp2.
Seriously, i have moments i think "this game is incredible", and there are other moments that i just say , "what the hell" and i log out and close the game to keep my anger out until the next time i login.
Incredible that there are still people out there that felt under the "F2P" excuse lol. Precisely, when a game become f2p , their winnings grow exponentially. They gain a lot more money now thatn before the f2p thing. By far lol. So, no the game is not really "f2p" because a lot of people waste a lot of zen month by month, and its far more than when the game wasnt f2p. The only difference is, they have more freedom, since they almost dont need to worry about fixing bugs, for example.
I would like to believe that money talks, along with player support. I spend a fair amount on Zen (it varies a bit; this month so far, for example, I spent much less than I usually do, because the hourly events were removed and the results have been detrimental to my gameplay experience, but I'll nevertheless almost certainly buy more Zen before the month is over) and I have made a few suggestions for improvement (including bug fixes) which have gotten decent support from other players. Now, of course, the mere spending of money doesn't mean that my ideas are superlative, but with support from other players as well, I would like to hope that they are at least given serious consideration by the Devs.
If I'm bored, I can walk up to any tailor in any social zone and immediately change my captain into a completely different character if I so wish. Sure it costs a little bit of Energy Credits, but you can get them without trying. In other MMO's I've tried? Be prepared to fork over $10 or even $20 USD every time you feel like wearing a different haircut.
3. Fear the Tux. Fear it.
In STO, what armour you have on has no impact on what you actually look like. In fact, other than Champions, APB Reloaded, and the now defunct CoH/CoV I don't know of any other MMO's that do this. In every other MMO, it's always "Too bad that 10th level armour looks so cool with it's gold flame patterns, it's stats are terrible compared to that 30th level potato sack with the all the high res texture quality of mud.
Gotta agree with what you said, especially those two are features i've been missing in a lot of other games. Can't make a character look truly unique in most games and then the high end armors often force some look onto em for a long time. After playing sto its difficult to play any other mmorpg and not notice the absence of those awesome customization features that we are having here
1: Free to play. I don't feel obligated to log in to "get my moneys worth" out of some sub.
2: Everything in game can be acquired without real money. And more importantly, not even in the bull TRIBBLE sense like it is with Eve where you spend so much time grinding a resource much of which goes towards your sub or just staying afloat. Or other f2p mmo's where you can, technically acquire something without spending cash, but realistically you'd be grinding for a very VERY long time. The KDF in STO in contrast has made all the goodies available to me at a very accommodating pace.
This. I wish Neverwinter was more like STO in that regard. 50k Astral Diamonds (that game's dilithium) just to transmogg one friggin' item? Come on!
Having to pay AD for reputation projects and perk unlocks? In STO we are rewarded Dil for that stuff!
You guys know, deep in your hearts, that without the fabled "Star Trek" IP, you wouldn't be here. A bunch out there would have left long, long ago after certain things were done by the devs (or what they've failed to do).
Longtime players know of STO's history.
And if it weren't for the "Star Trek" name, this game would have been dead LONG AGO, or at least in a near dead state.
Seriously, i have moments i think "this game is incredible", and there are other moments that i just say , "what the hell" and i log out and close the game to keep my anger out until the next time i login.
We all do at some point. That's why other games exist.
You guys know, deep in your hearts, that without the fabled "Star Trek" IP, you wouldn't be here. A bunch out there would have left long, long ago after certain things were done by the devs (or what they've failed to do).
Longtime players know of STO's history.
And if it weren't for the "Star Trek" name, this game would have been dead LONG AGO, or at least in a near dead state.
I have played quite a few MMOs. I sometimes play DCUO (Which is a great game) and SWTOR (A great game ruined by stupid restrictions.$30 to change your guild name? Really?)
I keep coming back to STO. Nuff said.
I enjoyed DCUO and found a way to score a two year membership to it will full access for less than $50.00 :eek:
But I got bored of DUCO after a few months and dropped it.
I played SWTOR and never even finished the story missions before I went and cancelled my membership.
I've had my issues with the way STO is run at times but I still really enjoy playing here and I agree that STO is one of the better MMO's on the market.
It IS a bad thing, Solace. Though there's nothing wrong with having a popular IP as the main draw of the game, sometimes I feel the STO is relying on it to get away with things that other MMOs would lose players for.
It IS a bad thing, Solace. Though there's nothing wrong with having a popular IP as the main draw of the game, sometimes I feel the STO is relying on it to get away with things that other MMOs would lose players for.
I would disagree. Sure they rely on it a lot when things go wrong, but I don't think that's to the games detriment. I think it lets the Devs experiment and try new things. Granted, new things don't always work, but I feel it's good for the game nothingless.
Comments
SWTOR: Horrible "F2P" system (seriously, you need to pay for, like, everything), Run by EA, 'nuff said.
STO: Bit of a grind at endgame, Epic new content, AWESOME F2P system, quite a few bugs, power creep, devs may not reply much, but on TOR forums, devs barely go on.
In summary, STO is a better game than SWTOR, which is a P2W pile of horse manure.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
That said season 8 and 8.5 did not interest me in slightest so if season 9 is lame I might take break.
Thats definitely a big one. Not having a Name I like on a character was actually a reason why I didn't even get STARTED on some MMOs.
Seriously, there are at least 5 mmos I installed making test accounts, going to character creation, creating a character, trying 20 names without success, leaving character creation, uninstalling the game.
And about the change fee, I didn't play WOW myself but an ex girlfriend on mine stated its costs about 20 there.
Another one of the things I really like, yes.
Guild wars 2 is at least CLOSER there, when you could use any visual on any armor with a merge item, but the sto was is definitely better.
But here is the downside: Its still another half finished feature.
Weapons can't be customized, the editor is permanently broken in some way ect...
Never played an MMO with that.
I'd probably quit an mmo introducing that.... "probably" because 2 years ago I said I'd never play an MMO with lock boxes either.
(Well I actually didn't play STO for that reason for 2 years and wouldn't buy a Key if my live depended on it but still.... its a HUGE downside)
They have a very.... "selective listening"....
1: Free to play. I don't feel obligated to log in to "get my moneys worth" out of some sub.
2: Everything in game can be acquired without real money. And more importantly, not even in the bull TRIBBLE sense like it is with Eve where you spend so much time grinding a resource much of which goes towards your sub or just staying afloat. Or other f2p mmo's where you can, technically acquire something without spending cash, but realistically you'd be grinding for a very VERY long time. The KDF in STO in contrast has made all the goodies available to me at a very accommodating pace.
1) The ships. Like SD Gundam Capsule Fighter and its draw of allowing players to play as their favorite Mobile Suits, STO allows me to play my favorite ships.
Even if most of them are Federation. And Cruisers.
2) The story. I haven't seen much of Star Trek in ages and playing here's drawn me back to it in style. Heck, slowly, but surely, I've been watching the series on Netflix (though I started with ST:TMP first. That was my first foray into ST)
3) The model. I agree, STO's F2P model is very accomodating. I rarely buy anything unless I absolutely need it (BOFF space or ship space) or I think it's neat (any random ship)
Only thing I don't like:
This message board, less it's looks and more it's people. The rampant negativity's really draining my enthusiasm here.
Maybe the following will help to see the "hate" in a new light. It did me.
On Getting Criticism:
by Raph Koster
Lately I have been working on multiple new games. And whenever you are working on games, of course, you get people to try them, and a lot of them dont like what they see.
Ive gotten a lot of criticism over the years, and I havent always taken it the right way. These days, criticism comes from all directions, and work is often shared before its really done. It can be hard to know what to listen to and when to stick to your guns.
Ultima Online is a Hall of Fame game. It averaged 6/10 in reviews. Star Wars Galaxies got a famously mixed reception, and closed down a while back; I still get fan mail.
So heres my takeaways from all those years of being told that my work sucks:
Everyone who dislikes your work is right.
This is the hardest pill to swallow. Ive never gotten a piece of feedback that was wrong. You see, you cant deny a player their unique experience. Whatever they felt, was true. For them. And something in your work triggered it.
It is useless, and worse, actually self-defeating, to attempt to deny the critique. Sure, there are sometimes reviews that seem spiteful, unfair, and the rest. But the vast majority of the time, people are giving their honest reaction.
And the bottom line is, you put the game out there in order to get reactions. If it were not for reactions, you could have just kept the game in your drawer and gotten everything you needed out of it.
The criticism that is useful is that which helps you do it better.
People make games for different reasons. Some do it just because it is fun. Some do it as a form of personal expression. Some have a message to get across, and some are out to make money to put food on the table.
Whatever your goal is, doing it better is held in common. That sense of craftsmanship is the common ground that unites us all. Do what you do better, serve the work better, and you get to do it again.
That means there are two aspects of your work that you want to hear about the most. What you did right, and what you did wrong.
Nothings perfect.
All our babies seem perfect until that first player touches them. We have to learn they are not. Nothing is. People who point out flaws are just pointing out reality. If you cant see the flaws in your own work, you probably need to get some distance. You cant do your best work if you cannot get that distance, because you will learn to gloss over problems. It is amazing how they will vanish into a blind spot.
In my case, I often have to leave stuff sit for a long time. A year, or more. The fastest way to short-circuit this process is to stand behind someone who tries to play my game, and shut up and say nothing. Its awesome: suddenly everything in it sucks! Then I furiously take notes.
The fact is that to do creative work is to know that most of what you do is ****. And we feel that way because we know we can do better. Honestly, if you arent pushing the boundaries of what you can do, youre probably not working hard enough. And working at the edge means a lot of TRIBBLE-ups.
You often have to choose between your ideals and your message.
One of the commonest pieces of feedback I get is that I am choosing some philosophical ideal over the players experience. It might be getting wedded to an aesthetic or visual I love that is just confusing the issue. It might be sticking with PvP for too long in order to serve an ideal of virtual citizenship, not paying attention to how many players are being chased out of the game.
The irony here, of course, is that if I cant make the players experience positive enough, my ideal is failing to reach them anyway. And what good is it then?
It doesnt mean I have to give up on the philosophical ideal. But it does mean that there are many many ways to compromise, and not all of them leave you compromised. In fact, being uncompromising may be the least successful way to achieve your artistic goal.
You have to dig to get the gold.
Most feedback you get isnt going to be from fellow practitioners. Even when it is, they are not going to know as much about the specific ways in which you did things, the tools you used, the practices you follow, to be able to pinpoint exactly whats wrong without a pretty deep dive.
This means that usually, when someone tells you that something is wrong or broken, its going to be wrong. But wrong in the sense that it will be imprecise. You need to find out what the problem is underlying the problem. In other words, the symptoms described will almost always be right, and the diagnosis will often be wrong.
Dont discard the feedback because of this. Look at it as a door you need to push on. Dig deeper and find out what the real issue is.
Good feedback is detailed.
Sometimes you get a piece of feedback that is highly specific. It offers alternate word choices. It tells you the basics like youre an idiot. It offers suggestions that are likely things you considered and discarded. It rewrites the plot for you. It feels like a rug burn: condescending, a checklist of everything wrong. You walk away feeling like this is the worst feedback ever.
It isnt, though. Its the best.
Look past what may feel like condescension. This sort of detail is impossible for someone who has not engaged fully with your work. The sign of a critic who does not care is brevity, not detail. Its dismissal.
Now, all the other caveats about whether or not this feedback is right still apply. It can be detailed and not right. But never dismiss serious thought.
People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is. Especially watch out for the ones who tell you that nobody understands your genius.
Honestly, this is going to sound horrible, but self-doubt is one of your most powerful tools for craftsmanship. None of the designers you admire feel self-confident about their work in that way. None of them think that they are awesome. They all suffer from impostor complexes the size of the Titanic.
I am not saying that you need to lack confidence in yourself. (Heck, youll never put anything out if thats the case! You need to have the arrogance to assume anyone will care in the first place). I am saying that nobody is ever done learning, and people who tell you you have arrived will give you a sense of complacency. You should never be complacent about your art.
Someone asked for feedback will always find something wrong.
This is super simple. When someone is asked to critique something, they will feel like they have failed if they dont find something wrong. So everyone will always find something, even if theres nothing major to fix.
That doesnt mean that the thing they mention is wrong. If the only feedback you get from multiple people is the same minor thing, you should feel pretty good!
Good work may not have an audience.
This is a sad truth. There is no correlation between quality and popularity. You may make something that is sophisticated, subtle, expressive, brilliant, and lose out to what is shallow and facile and brash. Oh well. And that really is the right attitude to have about it, too: oh well. Getting bitter about it is pointless.
That said, dont underestimate the skill required in being simple, polished, and accessible. Dense and rich is easy. Simple is hard. You denigrate pop at your peril.
Any feedback that comes with suggestions for improvement is awesome.
Thats because it means the person offering the criticism actually thought about your goals. So either you get avenues to explore that assist you in your artistic goal, or you get told that your goal is invisible to an audience! Both are highly valuable information.
If you agree with the criticism, say thank you. If you disagree, say fair enough, and thank you.
Complaining about a critique, or about a bad review, is utterly pointless. You cant deny the subjective experience of the reviewer. You also have to be thankful that they paid enough attention to actually say anything at all. The fact is that indifference is the enemy, not engagement, even if that engagement doesnt get the results you want.
Youre going to face way more indifference in your career than anything else. There are a lot of people out there working really hard, and they all want the audience attention that you do. Always be grateful for the attention. Someone takes the time to let you know what they thought? Thats already one in a thousand. They cared.
You are not your work.
Above all, dont forget this. Oh, be personally invested, of course. Your art will be poorer if you are not. But every little ship we launch is just our imperfect crafting of the moment. And we move on. We create again, and again. Each can only ever express a fragment, a tiny fraction of ourselves. And if you are trying to always improve in your craft and your art, then every old fragment, everything out there in the world already, thats old news. You are on the next thing. Your next work, thats who you are. Not the work that exists, but the work that does not yet.
So if someone savages it, who cares? That was yesterday. Its not who you are now.
Hold on to that, because a lot of people cant separate the work from the artist. Including a lot of artists.
Thats all Ive got.
And really, this post is as much for myself as it is for anyone else. Because we all need reminding.
- Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I agree that STO's F2P model is better than most - I think that's partly due to the fact that games which were designed from the start as F2P are "better optimized" for it, which from a player perspective tends to make them worse to play. The intersection of the various currencies (Zen, dil, Lobi and EC) makes for a much more dynamic economy, with multiple ways to get the things we want, and all of them are useful. I don't think this would have been possible if it had been designed as F2P from the start.
Also, not having to pay "rent" to maintain the group or personal base is one thing I really appreciate after my previous main MMO, City of Heroes. I can take a break and not have to run around powering everything back on after coming back - it's all right where I left it.
Try World of tanks. Every year they give away a tank. A freebie tier 2 tank. Out of 10 tiers. I'm sorry STO is the only game I've seen where they make you do what a 2 week grind and they hand you out of the box an end game worthy ship? Sorry no other game compares to that.
And hell when I was here when they went F2P live and did the 2 year anniversary and gave me the Ody. It was my main ship for a LONG time till I could invest some coin of the realm.
I've played a few games myself. Battlestar Galactica, World of tanks/planes, War thunder, Guild wars, Pirates of the Burning sea, War frames, star wars the old republic[such a let down], neverwinter.
Only 3 I keep playing are Tanks, this and warfarmes. It's one of the best, and the most forgiving and most giving games around.
Do they need more polsih? Sure, what online game doesn't? But it's a damn sight better than most hanging around. And even if Star citizen kicks off and promises everything, they say, I'll still probably log into STO because, only place I get to run around in a star fleet uniform or kdf or romulan and go play.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Aye, that was the one I was refering to, did not had the link anymore. Should be required reading for everybody even just considering starting in the MMO bussiness.
Also in STO you're not restricted to fly only shuttles/fighterpets/freighters with ships like Tuffli / Cell ship being top-of-the-line playerships :P
That said, I have become smitten (hard!) with the whole immersive experience, though I look forward to finishing some of the bigger grinds (reputation systems & fleet projects), and just enjoying the multiplayer experience in a game at least somewhat based on rational science, instead of magic & sorcery. The richness of detail & ship/equipment/skill/personalization options is excellent, there is content enough for all but the most jaded veterans, and most surprisingly (to me), I can still run the game smoothly most of the time on my 10-year-old computer! (Yes, it's been updated many times.)
Sure, the value-for-money equation leaves somthing to be desired in the C-store and Lobi shop, event grinds are somewhat annoying, and the many holes in game functions and item parity are disappointing, but I expect to be here for quite some time. STO even gives me a stronger motivation to finally upgrade my comp... :P
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Let me tell you a story of OG Planet's 2012 Summer Contest. It was some vacation bingo type thing: You played one of their games (for me, it was SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online), did something that would qualify you for a mark and you'd get a certain prize and if you played it for 25 days straight, you'd get the grand prize for that game. For SDGO it was the not-yet-released-at-the-time Heavyarms Gundam (Endless Waltz). The thing you had to do with play 5 death matches a day, which was, about 30 minutes a day. Simple, right?
Now, there were two things that went wrong here. First was the fact that many didn't read the rules. They thought it was just 25 days flat, not 25 days in a row. Thus, many people had lost the grand prize because they stopped partway through. Even worse, in the middle of the event was the June 2012 Derecho that hit the East Coast. Thus, not only was there people who missed out because they didn't read the instructions, there were people who missed out because of Mother Nature. The complaints were so bad, OG Planet was forced to give out Consolation Prizes.
Say what you will about the Grinderversary, there's always something worse.
p.s. my spell check keeps changing devs to debs! Is there a dev called Debs?
Yup. This was just one of the many examples. -w-
Ouch! I never played that one, but man that sounds awful!
I have no idea, but their should be.
My main MMOs are;
Star Trek Online / Neverwinter Online (Champions Online occasionally)
World of Tanks / Planes
Mechwarrior Online
Planetside 2
Warframe
I tend to cycle around these, though STO gets more attention than the others and CO is currently uninstalled (disk space reasons).
Those with a discerning eye will notice, all the above listed games have something in common. They are all games that you can pick up, play for a bit and move on. Then come back to them at anytime - without any problems or the feeling you have been left behind or needing to relearn the game again.
Simple to learn, simple to play, easy to enjoy - the motto of the casual gamer
My non MMO games follow the same pattern (ME3 multiplayer, Tribes Ascend, DoW2 Last Stand mode, Warhammer: Space Marine multiplayer)
(Side note, STO, PS2, WoT/P are the games I have spent money in)
Incredible that there are still people out there that felt under the "F2P" excuse lol. Precisely, when a game become f2p , their winnings grow exponentially. They gain a lot more money now thatn before the f2p thing. By far lol. So, no the game is not really "f2p" because a lot of people waste a lot of zen month by month, and its far more than when the game wasnt f2p. The only difference is, they have more freedom, since they almost dont need to worry about fixing bugs, for example.
I will say STO is one of the best, but its far from being the BEST. Not until cryptic fixes all the bugs that are making the game really frustrating so many times. Because keeping a game free of bugs (there will be always bugs here and there, but the quantity of bugs that STO atesorates is just incredible) is one of the most important things on any mmorpg, and it doesnt materr if it is fp2.
Seriously, i have moments i think "this game is incredible", and there are other moments that i just say , "what the hell" and i log out and close the game to keep my anger out until the next time i login.
Hate the bugs
I would like to believe that money talks, along with player support. I spend a fair amount on Zen (it varies a bit; this month so far, for example, I spent much less than I usually do, because the hourly events were removed and the results have been detrimental to my gameplay experience, but I'll nevertheless almost certainly buy more Zen before the month is over) and I have made a few suggestions for improvement (including bug fixes) which have gotten decent support from other players. Now, of course, the mere spending of money doesn't mean that my ideas are superlative, but with support from other players as well, I would like to hope that they are at least given serious consideration by the Devs.
Gotta agree with what you said, especially those two are features i've been missing in a lot of other games. Can't make a character look truly unique in most games and then the high end armors often force some look onto em for a long time. After playing sto its difficult to play any other mmorpg and not notice the absence of those awesome customization features that we are having here
Having to pay AD for reputation projects and perk unlocks? In STO we are rewarded Dil for that stuff!
Longtime players know of STO's history.
And if it weren't for the "Star Trek" name, this game would have been dead LONG AGO, or at least in a near dead state.
We all do at some point. That's why other games exist.
You say that as if it's a bad thing. :rolleyes:
I enjoyed DCUO and found a way to score a two year membership to it will full access for less than $50.00 :eek:
But I got bored of DUCO after a few months and dropped it.
I played SWTOR and never even finished the story missions before I went
I've had my issues with the way STO is run at times but I still really enjoy playing here and I agree that STO is one of the better MMO's on the market.
It IS a bad thing, Solace. Though there's nothing wrong with having a popular IP as the main draw of the game, sometimes I feel the STO is relying on it to get away with things that other MMOs would lose players for.
I would disagree. Sure they rely on it a lot when things go wrong, but I don't think that's to the games detriment. I think it lets the Devs experiment and try new things. Granted, new things don't always work, but I feel it's good for the game nothingless.