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ghyudt
Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
Ships and equipment are simply getting too strong. It's a fact, with more than enough proof to back it up. For testing purposes, I went and grabbed a constitution refit from the store, loaded it up with some of my primary equipment, and entered a few stfs. No matter which one I was in, The following occurred: all objectives completed, all bonus objectives completed. Gravity Well in every single one followed by just a barrage of cannon and dual beam fire. So, regardless of what 1 teammate is doing, the rest other 4 or more can easily complete any stf. The only exceptions are hive onslaught and no win scenario, both of which will soon become doable by 3 or less if things continue the way they are.
So to stop the players who refuse to stop using obviously OP'd setups from crying about the game having no challenge, what do we do? Well, I'd say go back to the drawing board and start from square 1 and give everything a much needed nerf and change how certain game mechanics work, since this is where the problme lies. But, since players would scream bloody murder if you take away their ability to vaporize anything in seconds, my net thought would be to reduce team sizes in certain stfs from 5 to 3 players, or base it on the current damage/success/failure rates of each player and convert these stats into a point system that will determine the number of points needed to achieve success in a particular stf and select a number of specific players who's point total matches that of the stf in question (i.e. an stf requires 1000 points to be completed successfully, the computer would take a player with a total score of 250, another with a score of 550, and 1 more with a score of 200, and that would be the team for the selectd mission). Or as stated before, reduce the team sizes from 5 to 3 for certain stf missions, such as starbase red alert, khitomer vortex, starbase 24, gorn minefield, etc.
And there are some that could go from 5 to 4, such as crystalline catastrophe and infected, the conduit. Really it depends o the stf, but I think most can see for themselves that 5 is now overkill for these missions.
So to stop the players who refuse to stop using obviously OP'd setups from crying about the game having no challenge, what do we do? Well, I'd say go back to the drawing board and start from square 1 and give everything a much needed nerf and change how certain game mechanics work, since this is where the problme lies. But, since players would scream bloody murder if you take away their ability to vaporize anything in seconds, my net thought would be to reduce team sizes in certain stfs from 5 to 3 players, or base it on the current damage/success/failure rates of each player and convert these stats into a point system that will determine the number of points needed to achieve success in a particular stf and select a number of specific players who's point total matches that of the stf in question (i.e. an stf requires 1000 points to be completed successfully, the computer would take a player with a total score of 250, another with a score of 550, and 1 more with a score of 200, and that would be the team for the selectd mission). Or as stated before, reduce the team sizes from 5 to 3 for certain stf missions, such as starbase red alert, khitomer vortex, starbase 24, gorn minefield, etc.
And there are some that could go from 5 to 4, such as crystalline catastrophe and infected, the conduit. Really it depends o the stf, but I think most can see for themselves that 5 is now overkill for these missions.
Post edited by ghyudt on
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Still, some power are completely broken. A2b+dem+marion+technicians comes to mind. And they deserve some work (IE nerf).
Unfortunately, so far the idea of "challenge" for Cryptic is OP abilities that can OS the player, and mobs that keep running around the map. Nothing involving skills.
Pretty much sums up the way it is, New Reputations add a lot of powerful traits to the player
( tactical advantage trait from the dyson rep being prime example of one that reduces the difficulty of combat)
And the older NPCs just don't cut it anymore because they were never designed to face these powers and traits at the time
But as you have pointed out above, simply making the exisiting content harder by default would probably be a bad choice as the players who lack the traits then stand at a disadvantage
Personally I think a nightmare mode would be useful, But I would like to see an increased difficulty option beyond Elite for the entire game not just more difficult STFs , Or maybe just make elite more hard and leave normal as it is
This is why the idea of limiting team sizes and fixing game mechanics was more appealing to me. I know first hand just how broken aux2batt builds are. And I like the idea of this nightmare mode, but the problem with that is that when players start losing missions with their builds that used to dominate everything else, you and I both know they're gonna claim its just too hard and needs to be fixed. And even if they don't, this then leaves the already too powerful players pulling even farther ahead ( since there will obviously be increased rewards, followed by some even more powerful equipment) and the rest will be left behind. Either way, someone gets screwed.
Don't change the ships. Our ships are fine, they need to add levels and skills, higher tier gear XiX gear any one ^_^
=/\=USS Lindsey Stirling =/\= NCC-116747 =/\=
=/\= Liberty Task Force =/\= Diplomatic Advisor =/\=
I have purple gear everything, now the game is a cakewalk. I want content that challenges me to use those epic loots.
Kinda the same problem Champions Online has: lack of endgame.One of them anyway. That game is like Cryptics red-headed stepchild. (Apologies to any gingers currently reading.)
And I am not interested in PvP, not my bag. Moar harder PvE please!!!
Nope. That would negate many peoples $$$ invested. Player level increase and new gear level (rewarded from the new, more difficult content) is the way to go.
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Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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it just amazes me that there are some players that see the game as too easy and others that obviously find it too hard.
I guess one answer would be to try using a lower tier ship if you find a particular thing like an stf too easy.
you could also try keeping a few lower tier weapons in your bank to swap in when you want to do things that seem too easy with high tier weapons.
I also kinda think some people prefer a fairly easy time killing opponents but hate the fact that some opponents might damage them.
I have seen other people playing certain pvp based games who revel in destroying others but get mad as hell when anyone inflicts the slightest amount of damage on them.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
^^This. Team Rivera seems to favor the lazy approach of "cheating up" NPCs with more HP and DPS. The problem is it's still the same old morons with the same old predictable tactics that are so easy to prepare for.
So, despite hitting harder and taking longer to kill, the same counters that worked on the "weaker" versions still work on the "new improved morons". In this rock-paper-scissors game, giving them a bigger rock is a short lived improvement at best.
More variety in NPC abilities and tactics would be the way to go, the question is is Team Rivera up for it?
Basically.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Well I think we as the players can do something about if the devs can. Hence why I created the Star Trek Battles channel
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1026351
Your right, even with lowering our dps we are still finishing with all optionals but it has made the stf's more drawn out. As a group with running MK X blues we finished CSE with 27 seconds to sparte... one of the funnest stf's Ive done. We did it again last night at we finished with 7 mins on the clock, we were more coordinated.
So to challenge yourself... take a group and go in with MK V weapons and see how you do. We might be doing that to test how far we can lower the dps and still finish in good time.
This has been the case for 3 years now. The content is dated. And people have completed it in that ship since 2011. Your test reveals nothing new.
IIRC, there was a thread a couple weeks back from someone that did complete NWS with 3? Or was it they did it with 4 and were getting ready to do it with 3?
Anyways, the far more elegant solution would be to remove all Mk XI and Mk XII gear from the game. And remove all Reputation passive powers.
That way all the folks puttering around at less than 5K Deeps in their noob gear who haven't done their rep grinds will be unaffected, but the folks who are so far ahead of the curve will get put back down closer to the challenge level.
I mean, that is far closer to a fix for you isn't it? To remove all the gear and accomplishments that creeped your power?
Terrible way to go about fixing the problem, already seen it tested.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This game's "epic" loot isn't epic. It increases things horizontally not vertically. So you add an extra effect when the color changes. The item's base stats are still the same (well I'm not really ready to discuss the [DMG] bonus).
So in short, the cakewalk you experienced? Would have been a cakewalk with Mk X Greens too. The difference between gear is not as grand as people think it is. Other games have hardwired a pavlovian response to gear color. But this game's math is right there to see. Your Mk XII DHC isn't super duper better than a Mk XI DHC.
It's not like going from a dagger you got in Blackrock Spire to the Ragnaros dropped dagger.
Then you're right back at an impasse. Because Cryptic isn't going to alienate it's casual customer base. And that's all these threads end up being, suggestions to separate people that already completed end-game content from the rest of the people that are behind the curve.
EDIT: Also, I find it oddly inconsistent that you WANT powercreep given to you by the dev team (boosting older ships to have stronger layouts specifically to increase DPS) but also feel powercreep is a problem. If you really have issues with powercreep you should kind of be delighted that the devs didn't go overboard with changes to the Galaxy ships.
Several weeks ago hereticknight085 explained why any sort of "Nightmare Mode" is doomed to fail in the end.
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
Yup... that one pretty much covers the repeating pattern of the past 4 years.
The question then what is Cryptics take on ship balance? I have lots of escorts, science ships, and cruisers and if a new ship does not offer something that is superior to the ships I have I am not likely to buy it. I want ships to come out to be better than old ships. This will cause the power creep phenomenon that we see in the game today. I am Star Trek Tech junky and want to see them add in Dilithium Crystals, Warp Coils, EPS Conduits, more console slots and more weapon hard points. Yes, I own all the tech manuals. Adding these things does not lend itself to balance, however.
Another question is why does STO need balance? The only reason I can think of is PvP. Even in this arena its hard to justify an escort destroying a cruiser. If Defiant went after the Enterprise F, who would win? I personally dont think defiant has much of a chance against Enterprise F. I think it could be possible in PvP to balance teams by a point system on gear and ship class. If some players have better gear, then the computer could adjust the teams to mathematically make a better matchup. It might end up 2 against 5, but still balanced.
I really want a persistent PvP warzone with captureable starbases in an area control game. This would not need balance for individual ships, but balance is attained through making a task force of many ships. In this idea small ships add to the firepower of the whole making their contribution useful.
In PvE, I dont think anyone cares how strong an ally is. Its nice having the extra firepower. However, the power creep becomes a problem. Augmenting the existing content is certainly an option, but new high level content is a better solution. If Cryptic was to introduce high level gear and high level content at the same time, It would be a much better situation.
The conclusion I come to is this: I dont think balance is possible for Cryptic to maintain profits, but they can adjust content for both PvP and PvE so that game play is challenging and fun.
In October of 2013, Everquest launched its 20th expansion. On March 16th, it will be 15 years since the game debuted.
Just something to think about when asking for this game to follow that same model. Mudflation is what it is.
it would work, if no extra reward was given, aside from a title, if extra difficulty is what the "hardcore" players truly want that is.
I would like to see you, just once, offer a solution to something rather than arguing with people. (Seemingly for the sake of it or to defend Cryptic)
And purposely gimping myself to add challenge is not a solution. That's excusing developers lack of content.
PS @Cryptic: as stated elsewhere, adding HP and one-shot kills is NOT adding challenge. That is just lazy. New stuff please.
I'm not sure we can even grant an extra title - otherwise the aforementioned "entitlement casuals" would complain that they can't get the title...
Has to be 100% identical reward for the "elite" and the "hardcore". Otherwise the aforementioned deal starts again...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Plus with a game like this where they invested so much into the story, and they didn't really stop to think about "well what's next?" And like I said, this isn't just limited to just STO. SWtOR has this issue.
Games like WoT would have this issue except many in that game [Myself included] have come to realize rushing to the end is not satisfying, it's finding tanks you love to play and you drive them till the tracks fall off, put them back together, then drive them off all over again.
My problem with SWtOR, once you complete a character line, there is no way to go back and replay what got you to the end, you literally have to start over from the beginning.
In STO you can actually do that, but my problem is, I can't take a tier 1 ship with tier 1 equipment and relive that mission. Oh no, I have to relive it, but with my end game stuff or suffer I will.
No the problem is, the whole industry. They don't give thought to "well what now." One of the quick and easy solutions is "rep grinds" or grind for something. That works, for a bit, but it gets boring and repetitive. We are a fanbase starved for content, and the problem is, STO isn't focusing on that because guess what, that doesn't get them $$$$.
So basically everything well I and many people I see want on this thread, realistically won't happen because it doesn't turn a profit. Foundry is a nice side adventure, but it's not enough.
TL;DR. Problem isn't just confined to STO, it's industry wide.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
And then, of course, there'd be no point to playing at "hardcore" level in the first place, if the rewards are the same as the "elite" level.
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
I'd like to see a player like you have perspective for once and stop trying to alter things in a way that will only make the game worse.
And that's the fallacy of these threads. The posters who feel they are "elite" and want the challenge ...
don't actually want the challenge. They just want better gear.