But I mean, the finish line is waaaaaay back at like 3k DPS on ISE. So why's it matter if you're doing 13k or 30k when you needed so much less?
That's the "winning" part I'll never quite understand. The winning is the completion of the mission. Finishing it in 5 minutes instead of 7 doesn't win anything due to the time gate for completion.
You could run phasers and be a-OK. Those green beams aren't winning much of anything.
I don't know. I mean I used to raid in EQ and vanilla WoW. I was a damage dealer. One of the better ones at various times on my specific server. But even then I understood the situational nature of the parses. And really only parsed at certain times so I could make upgrade decisions and better organize my DKP. The end result was always getting the kill for the guild, not anything else.
It just seems like the context of what DPS is, as well as the utility of parsing gets completely lost in this game since it's end-game is so static.
I guess I'd be more impressed if we started seeing more numbers from CE, No Win, Storming the Spire and Into the Hive.
EDIT: Sorry to veer so far off track. Back on topic ... Uh, Undine rep has some phaser centric stuff coming right?
Ah, the whole "It's ok to have beams that suck cus the difficulty sucks" mentality. No. Wanting to improve your character at their role, even to the point of overkill is a fundamental part of every MMO. Once you can't improve any more, interest wanes. Thus a competition to see who can push the most. As for the content, I think it needs a higher difficulty. One that makes your choice in beam actually a factor in whether you have success or failure. Maybe then people will see the disparity between phasers and the rest and stop accepting sub par things. I just hope Cryptic gives it a reward proportionate to the challenge like Blizzard does. When you make things like Hive that are significantly more time consuming and challenging for same or less reward, no one wants to run it. Not even those capable of rising up to the challenge, just isn't efficient. Good play should always be the most efficient road to reward.
its quite comical..................Star trek..........STO ........and the main faction has the worst main weapon for damage in a damage only game
phasers need a set bonus equal or exceeding the other races
and a proc that has some bearing on PvE
For example phasers get none of this bonus
Romulan plasma disruptor proc -10 to all dmage resistance and plasma fire..........phasers get a subsystem proc that in all truth does nothing in PvE.. Elite phasers give a small heal thats not noticible i have a complete Elite set in my bank................
plasma hyper flux set 7.6 % all plasma energy damage
romulan science console mk-XI 9.6 % all plasma energy damage
romulan science console mk-XI 9.6 % all plasma energy damage
most ships have 2 science consoles and they stack
phasers dont get any support to damage like this and they should
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Ah, the whole "It's ok to have beams that suck cus the difficulty sucks" mentality. No.
Nah, it's more of a "With Phasers I can do 30K DPS and that's more than enough" mentality. It's not that the bar is at 3k DPS and Phasers are clocking in at 3.1k DPS but Polarons are at 69K.
Nope. It's that the bar is set at 3K DPS and EVERYTHING, including Tetryons, is well past 10, 20, 30 K ... that this entire debate is just silly theorycrafting.
Wanting to improve your character at their role, even to the point of overkill is a fundamental part of every MMO.
Kind of, but there's context missing. For most MMOs character progression at a so-called "end-game" is tied into teamed content progression. You need to get your entire guild keyed, and equipped with certain gear landmarks to get past the encounter you're all stuck on.
That doesn't exist in this game. So your point rings hollow when applied to this game. It IS overkill. But its pointless overkill in STO. There's no pointless overkill in doing that in Everquest. Because you need to get past a set tier to get to the next part of the game.
Once you can't improve any more, interest wanes.
Once you're tired of TPWing to that same dragon over and over again because your off-healers aren't geared well enough in Fire resists to keep your DPS team alive just 10 seconds longer, interest also wanes.
Thus a competition to see who can push the most.
The competition is insular and misplaced though.
As for the content, I think it needs a higher difficulty.
This isn't that kind of game. And isn't going to become that kind of game.
One that makes your choice in beam actually a factor in whether you have success or failure.
They're not going to punish people for liking Polarons or Phasers or Antiprotons.
Maybe then people will see the disparity between phasers and the rest and stop accepting sub par things.
Sub par? That's rich. Such a wonderful exchange going on in these threads. The difference is never numerically categorized. But oh wow do the adjectives fly around at warp speed!
I just hope Cryptic gives it a reward proportionate to the challenge like Blizzard does.
Cryptic isn't making that kind of game. They never were!
Good play should always be the most efficient road to reward.
Phasers don't need anything hugely elaborate. Just one built in [acc] mod in the same vein as antiproton has crit serverity. That's it. I suppose in a very varied game where utility and quirky effects had a very viable role to play in success that phasers and beams like that could have been good in STO. But, for whatever reason, the devs let it spiral into a dps race for so long that overhauling the whole game in an ultra risky gambit to bring it back to grace is supremely unlikely. At this point we might better accept the game for what it is and expect beams/ships and powers that take that reality into account.
Just to clarify, I'm not against changing Phasers and their Proc and boosting them and giving them their own set bonus in one of the reps. I'm all for that.
I'm just not a fan of "X sucks!" stuff. Be it Phasers suck, Tetryons suck, or anything like that.
An innate ACC buff to Phasers? Sure thing! I'm all for that. (Well now that you all reminded me of the cryptic math about what happens with too much accuracy).
I just tend to think Phasers Suck threads rely far more on hyperbole than they should.
You guys think AP BAs are annoying? You ever sat next to an escort using the AP DHCs? It's like someone put a freakin popcorn maker next to you. And then they hit CRF... -.-
But back on this thread, there have been a lot of suggestions as to what needs fixing with phasers, and some are good, others bad.
But I have a few comments:
1) To those who want the proc chance increased, I will just say NO. MI reminded me of how devastatingly IRRITATING phaser procs can be. In the middle of some MU ships, blasting awa... wait, why are my weapons offline? CURSE YOU PHASER PROC!!!
2) To those who want another mod built in (IE acc or crtd or crth or SOMETHING), then I would say fine, works for me, but take away it's currently existing proc.
3) I think the only good suggestion I saw on here was the adjust it's effect on NPCs. Take away their ability to gain immunity to procs, and allow phaser procs to stack. On. NPCs. ONLY.
4) Anyone who says phasers are useless, I feel I should remind them how deadly it can be in PvP to have your shields or engines go offline. You will usually be dead a few seconds later.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
2) To those who want another mod built in (IE acc or crtd or crth or SOMETHING), then I would say fine, works for me, but take away it's currently existing proc.
... Isn't Phaser the only damage type that doesn't have an alternate proc version? Would people buy a "Hyper-Precision Phaser" weapon type?
STO in a shellnut. "I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
Undine rep has a set bonus that brings +15% damage to phasers. So I'll be doing that rep grind.
If that's the case, then I'll do the grind as well. I still like using canon weapons for my Fed and KDF toon. Actually, my KDF toon uses plasma-disruptors which I suppose is a natural progression from pure disruptors. However, I think I will try out disruptors to see if I notice any difference.
Now if they would only make the Fed retro blue phasers a little quieter...
Now we just need a specialty phaser beam ala experimental/omnidirectional. Maybe a phaser beam array with the damage of a dual beam bank? I don't know.
Apparently I spoke too soon. Dev post says they moved the bonus to the Tactical Console. Which I find confusing.
Really this whole Undine Rep testing on Tribble has been frustrating for me. I heard tell that the set would have a phaser and disruptor theme, and damage bonus. Then pics were posted of the ground set, but it took me until yesterday to find out about the space sets. And then I found out that it was already being undone.
I give up. I'll take a look at it when it's live.
Kind of annoyed I fell for the old Cryptic Test Server trap again. Sooooo much noise about other aspects of the Season that the stuff I was trying to focus on got drowned out. And as with all things Cryptic made, it's just better to wait until it's live and THEN test it. Cause bugs and the like are all going live mostly anyways.
Sorry to be grumpy. Just, I don't know, it's frustrating to find things out sometimes.
As a comprimize, I say give Andorian Phaser weaponry a slightly different proc, similar to how every other weapon type has something like that. (Destabilizing Tetryon, Nanite Disruptor, Elachi, Voth Antiproton, etc). Do note, not an additional proc, but a new proc.
Seeing as they're the only other "type" of weapon that does phaser damage, not counting retro-phasers, which are only available as beam arrays.
So, yesterday I was able to play the game for 4 hours straight (which has not happened in about a year, but that's another discussion). My ship uses Spiral Waves (see sig if you wish) and I gotta say, from my experience yesterday, I was very happy with the phaser proc simply because I could actually see its effect in use on almost every mob I targeted.
I'm a fan of phasers because it's Fed. I'm more of a fan because it's a good proc. Having said that, I'm keeping my Spiral Waves as they are the best of two worlds ... and are orange olored beams )
I admit this may be a "tin foil hat" moment ... But I've been leveling several Rom toons in quick succession with the XP event, which means I've been playing the same missions, with the same level/class character, in the same ship, with the same weapons/gear, repeatedly over the past few days (since the "non-patch"/"Stability patch" last Thursday) and I have noticed something in the early Rom missions.
I am convinced that Cryptic has "tweaked" the Phaser (and possibly Polaron) Procs, or at least the "offline" or "power drain" mechanics, as these seem WAY more evident than they used to be.
I like phasers on things that require phasers like the Gal-X, Chimera, Kumari, or detatchable pets (saucer, split Prometheus).
I also like phasers if they match with what ship I'm using. Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier I'm using phasers. Why? Because I'm using Peregrines, which use phaser (and quantum). So my ship is using phaser dual cannons (and quantum torpedoes).
I do this because I enjoy it. You don't like it, too bad.
I admit this may be a "tin foil hat" moment ... But I've been leveling several Rom toons in quick succession with the XP event, which means I've been playing the same missions, with the same level/class character, in the same ship, with the same weapons/gear, repeatedly over the past few days (since the "non-patch"/"Stability patch" last Thursday) and I have noticed something in the early Rom missions.
I am convinced that Cryptic has "tweaked" the Phaser (and possibly Polaron) Procs, or at least the "offline" or "power drain" mechanics, as these seem WAY more evident than they used to be.
I've been watching this thread so see if someone else notices. Yep, phasers are back; it's proc was nerf to oblivion before, but now they seem tp have gotten some stealth buff.
Good job Cryptic
I have only been using phaser for my Fed toon from the very start (Jan 2014). I have been using the retro blue phasers for over a month, but I decided to switch back to "red" phasers because the sound effects of the retros were starting to annoy me.
However, I do have around 10 - 12 antiproton beam arrays in my bank. I would like to try 'em out, but doing so means I cannot put 'em back on the Exchange.
Perhaps, but the phaser proc is not the same. The Elachi proc does a single instance of damage, while the phaser proc can leave shields disabled for several seconds.
Side note:
It would be of more benefit to be able to choose which system the proc disables rather than a random system. Random disables to random systems makes it inconsistent and unreliable except in cases where your entire team is using phasers.
you mean you want phaser set ups to have perma- subsystem targetting....
sorta like a switchable targetting, like cruiser commands are switchable?
For my top fed ship: USS Hornet, I use phasers, but I do not prefer Quantums. Instead...my preference lies with Transphasics. If anyone wants to know my current build (which I am upgrading all parts of at this time), contact me.
Speaking of Phasers and shutting down subsystems... Is there a connection between Subsystem Targeting abilities being boosted by using Phasers (i.e. increased chance and/or increased duration)?
Comments
Ah, the whole "It's ok to have beams that suck cus the difficulty sucks" mentality. No. Wanting to improve your character at their role, even to the point of overkill is a fundamental part of every MMO. Once you can't improve any more, interest wanes. Thus a competition to see who can push the most. As for the content, I think it needs a higher difficulty. One that makes your choice in beam actually a factor in whether you have success or failure. Maybe then people will see the disparity between phasers and the rest and stop accepting sub par things. I just hope Cryptic gives it a reward proportionate to the challenge like Blizzard does. When you make things like Hive that are significantly more time consuming and challenging for same or less reward, no one wants to run it. Not even those capable of rising up to the challenge, just isn't efficient. Good play should always be the most efficient road to reward.
phasers need a set bonus equal or exceeding the other races
and a proc that has some bearing on PvE
For example phasers get none of this bonus
Romulan plasma disruptor proc -10 to all dmage resistance and plasma fire..........phasers get a subsystem proc that in all truth does nothing in PvE.. Elite phasers give a small heal thats not noticible i have a complete Elite set in my bank................
plasma hyper flux set 7.6 % all plasma energy damage
romulan science console mk-XI 9.6 % all plasma energy damage
romulan science console mk-XI 9.6 % all plasma energy damage
most ships have 2 science consoles and they stack
phasers dont get any support to damage like this and they should
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Nah, it's more of a "With Phasers I can do 30K DPS and that's more than enough" mentality. It's not that the bar is at 3k DPS and Phasers are clocking in at 3.1k DPS but Polarons are at 69K.
Nope. It's that the bar is set at 3K DPS and EVERYTHING, including Tetryons, is well past 10, 20, 30 K ... that this entire debate is just silly theorycrafting.
Kind of, but there's context missing. For most MMOs character progression at a so-called "end-game" is tied into teamed content progression. You need to get your entire guild keyed, and equipped with certain gear landmarks to get past the encounter you're all stuck on.
That doesn't exist in this game. So your point rings hollow when applied to this game. It IS overkill. But its pointless overkill in STO. There's no pointless overkill in doing that in Everquest. Because you need to get past a set tier to get to the next part of the game.
Once you're tired of TPWing to that same dragon over and over again because your off-healers aren't geared well enough in Fire resists to keep your DPS team alive just 10 seconds longer, interest also wanes.
The competition is insular and misplaced though.
This isn't that kind of game. And isn't going to become that kind of game.
They're not going to punish people for liking Polarons or Phasers or Antiprotons.
Sub par? That's rich. Such a wonderful exchange going on in these threads. The difference is never numerically categorized. But oh wow do the adjectives fly around at warp speed!
Cryptic isn't making that kind of game. They never were!
Not in a free to play model.
Edit: my response was to Jello1.
I'm just not a fan of "X sucks!" stuff. Be it Phasers suck, Tetryons suck, or anything like that.
An innate ACC buff to Phasers? Sure thing! I'm all for that. (Well now that you all reminded me of the cryptic math about what happens with too much accuracy).
I just tend to think Phasers Suck threads rely far more on hyperbole than they should.
But back on this thread, there have been a lot of suggestions as to what needs fixing with phasers, and some are good, others bad.
But I have a few comments:
1) To those who want the proc chance increased, I will just say NO. MI reminded me of how devastatingly IRRITATING phaser procs can be. In the middle of some MU ships, blasting awa... wait, why are my weapons offline? CURSE YOU PHASER PROC!!!
2) To those who want another mod built in (IE acc or crtd or crth or SOMETHING), then I would say fine, works for me, but take away it's currently existing proc.
3) I think the only good suggestion I saw on here was the adjust it's effect on NPCs. Take away their ability to gain immunity to procs, and allow phaser procs to stack. On. NPCs. ONLY.
4) Anyone who says phasers are useless, I feel I should remind them how deadly it can be in PvP to have your shields or engines go offline. You will usually be dead a few seconds later.
... Isn't Phaser the only damage type that doesn't have an alternate proc version? Would people buy a "Hyper-Precision Phaser" weapon type?
"I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
If that's the case, then I'll do the grind as well. I still like using canon weapons for my Fed and KDF toon. Actually, my KDF toon uses plasma-disruptors which I suppose is a natural progression from pure disruptors. However, I think I will try out disruptors to see if I notice any difference.
Now if they would only make the Fed retro blue phasers a little quieter...
Really this whole Undine Rep testing on Tribble has been frustrating for me. I heard tell that the set would have a phaser and disruptor theme, and damage bonus. Then pics were posted of the ground set, but it took me until yesterday to find out about the space sets. And then I found out that it was already being undone.
I give up. I'll take a look at it when it's live.
Kind of annoyed I fell for the old Cryptic Test Server trap again. Sooooo much noise about other aspects of the Season that the stuff I was trying to focus on got drowned out. And as with all things Cryptic made, it's just better to wait until it's live and THEN test it. Cause bugs and the like are all going live mostly anyways.
Sorry to be grumpy. Just, I don't know, it's frustrating to find things out sometimes.
well they removed that bonus
http://i.imgur.com/Jsx33hS.jpg
Seeing as they're the only other "type" of weapon that does phaser damage, not counting retro-phasers, which are only available as beam arrays.
I'm a fan of phasers because it's Fed. I'm more of a fan because it's a good proc. Having said that, I'm keeping my Spiral Waves as they are the best of two worlds ... and are orange olored beams
And ... it's back!
Yo yoing is driving me batty, but ...
I am convinced that Cryptic has "tweaked" the Phaser (and possibly Polaron) Procs, or at least the "offline" or "power drain" mechanics, as these seem WAY more evident than they used to be.
I also like phasers if they match with what ship I'm using. Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier I'm using phasers. Why? Because I'm using Peregrines, which use phaser (and quantum). So my ship is using phaser dual cannons (and quantum torpedoes).
I do this because I enjoy it. You don't like it, too bad.
DeltaFox
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I've been watching this thread so see if someone else notices. Yep, phasers are back; it's proc was nerf to oblivion before, but now they seem tp have gotten some stealth buff.
Good job Cryptic
Oh no. Flying a Fleet Avenger with all Phasers and i LOVE IT!
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=daisytacfleetavenger_5996
However, I do have around 10 - 12 antiproton beam arrays in my bank. I would like to try 'em out, but doing so means I cannot put 'em back on the Exchange.
you mean you want phaser set ups to have perma- subsystem targetting....
sorta like a switchable targetting, like cruiser commands are switchable?
phaser command :target : engines etc?