Why do people care so much about what other people use?
It could be any ship, not necessarily the scimitar. It matters because the scimitar was made so powerful that every other ship lags behind in potential DPS.
Yes, because the answer lies in making everything ridiculously powered :rolleyes:
Tell me, which is easier to do?
Adjust everything else in the game to the new level of power?
Or bring that aberration back inline with the rest?
The answer is quite obvious.
Tell me, why haven't they done that yet? (Sorry, couldn't resist )
The whole game's balance won't be fixed be adjusting just one ship - the Scimitar isn't just one aberration, it's a combination of several (A2B/3Techs/DEMarion/BFaW, Romulan Crits, etc.)
The only way to fix the one ship by nerfing would be to nerf a few of those things - and if they did that to any one of those things that make the Scimitar so effective, I can't imagine what kind of rage they'd get from the players who enjoy using A2B/3Techs/DEMarion/BFaW, Romulan Crits, etc.
When everything is 'over powered' to the same level... nothing is. 10 damage killing a 10HP NPC in one shot is functionally equivalent to 100 damage killing a 100HP NPC in the same amount of time.
Why do people care so much about what other people use?
I don't care what you use. I care that a game element is imbalanced, and I'm trying to come up with solutions and get similar suggestions from players collected into a single thread, hence giving both my ideas and theirs a better chance at being seen by the Devs.
You are talking about the dev team that lets well known bugs, exploits, issues caught during tribble to go live.
Latest big example? V-Rex Tagging in the Dyson Battlezone. Tribble testers caught this, reported this, yet Cryptic didn't give 2 f**ks and let it go live. Months have passed. Quite a bit of complaints laid out about it. 2013 ended and we are no fresh into March 2014, and Cryptic hasn't done squat. Special weekends for extra Marks and later Dil have come and gone. Cryptic hasn't done squat. If one didn't take advantage of this broken system during those special weekends, I'm sorry. But again, Cryptic hasn't done squat.
It could be any ship, not necessarily the scimitar. It matters because the scimitar was made so powerful that every other ship lags behind in potential DPS.
I have a scimitar. Do you know what I fly? The D'Deridex.
I couldn't care less if it does half the damage, I like flying the D'Deridex a lot more.
It's a game, you should play the way you enjoy it the most. If you want DPS then get a scimitar too, if you don't, don't.
As a scimi owner I have some thoughts.
First off I am also actually tired of "hey wanna pvp?" "Look at my awesome dps" scimi captains that have gone all dps nuts,its dulled some aspects of the game for me in terms of opponent versatility. I have not done so in my scimi, I made it for pve reman canon fun. And as I have that (reman set, plasma,mixed beams and cannons) I have actually been berated for having a "sub optimal dps build".
I wouldn't go as far as to call this a pay to win ship, the ammount of times I have seen people with that mentality raging as they are killed is hilarious.
However it does seem to have given rise to a certain type of captain that irks me. I've seen it in fleet chat, people just mauling players they know stand no chance in crazy dps scimis. This saddens me as it is a fun ship.
I have both smashed players in scimis, smashed players with my scimi, and been smashed in my scimi by other ships, I don't think its the ship so much as the captain that builds/flies it. I know my scimi build wouldn't stand a chance against my jem dread build.
Sadly I don't think its the ship pe say but some (not all) of the players that are attracted to it because of its reputation.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
I don't need to list stats and abilities here; you guys all know what they are. However, if you do want to see them: Scimitar and, for comparison's sake: Tulwar | Falchion
Funny. I had a discussion about cannon ships. So, in actuality.
1. The Scimitar should be more powerful. It should be able to take on a Soverign Class and two Mogai class ships while cloaked.
2. The Defiant should be able to out maneuver the Bird of Prey. Additionalyl, cloak should be built in. The Defiant should also have a much stronger hull and automatic quad cannonsl.
3. The Galaxy-R should have a powerful lance cannon and cloak built in.
The only faction that don't seem to be to advance was the KDF. They should have battle cloak also like the Romulans but only on Bird of Prey to Raptor classes. Cryptic can give KDF more powerful ships starting with the Mogh and the Dyson ship. I can image the KDF building a Dreadnought ship tho.
If Cryptic did this, so many players would be pissed.
I seen so many Scimitars blown up because of bad players or bad builds. So, it's not over powered. Just learn to play against those ships.
The game would have been better off without any of the 5-3 layout dreadnought/cruisers. Scimitar, Mogh or Avenger. Lets face it, the Avenger and Mogh as they are currently laid out are answers for the Roms having the Scimi and not as potent ones at that.
Power creep is power creep but the Scimi jumped it from a creep to a leap.
PWE made some good money short term Im sure, but long term damaging without a restructure of ships and NPC's.
And to clarify, I own all three of these so not just being bitter "didnt want to spend the money" guy.
The game would have been better off without any of the 5-3 layout dreadnought/cruisers. Scimitar, Mogh or Avenger. Lets face it, the Avenger and Mogh as they are currently laid out are answers for the Roms having the Scimi and not as potent ones at that.
Power creep is power creep but the Scimi jumped it from a creep to a leap.
PWE made some good money short term Im sure, but long term damaging without a restructure of ships and NPC's.
And to clarify, I own all three of these so not just being bitter "didnt want to spend the money" guy.
I understand that. I was actually pretty surprised that the Mogh/Avenger didn't have a hanger bay. I figured they'd be the fed/klink "Scimitar."
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
IMHO the main problem is not the wapons layout, but the crth and crtd we can have. Every ship can have high crth and crtd with appropriate weapons, boffs fleet tactical consoles and universal consoles; other items and doffs can help you to have some more dps and resistance (resistance is not futile). All of this can be applied on every ship with little (but important) differences: because of the boffs layout, if you fly escorts you will use dhcs and turrets (and CSV) and if you fly cruisers you will use beam arrays and AtB builds (with FaW). And here comes the first big diffference: in order to have 28k dps on a escort you must also be a good pilot because DHCs have a little firing arc and you must be quick to point ad destroy, moreover CSV can hit up to 3 target at the same time. But if you fly a cruiser, even if you are not a good pilot is much more easy having 28k dps because of the greater firing arc of beam array and because FaW hit much more targets... on a cruiser highter dps are possible if you are a good pilot.
We should think about decreasing crth and crtd and/or increase npcs defence and resistance... also BFaW should be nerfed (it hits too many opponents at the some time, never miss and actually the energy drain is not a big limitation).
p.s.
I fly several ships (charal, jhas and the shimitar), for pve I use the charal (record 28k dps) and the shimitar (up to 42k dps).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
The game would have been better off without any of the 5-3 layout dreadnought/cruisers. Scimitar, Mogh or Avenger. Lets face it, the Avenger and Mogh as they are currently laid out are answers for the Roms having the Scimi and not as potent ones at that.
Power creep is power creep but the Scimi jumped it from a creep to a leap.
PWE made some good money short term Im sure, but long term damaging without a restructure of ships and NPC's.
And to clarify, I own all three of these so not just being bitter "didnt want to spend the money" guy.
The Scimitar suppose to be really powerful. It was depicted in the movies as such. So, why would Cryptic make it any different? Cryptic actually underpowered the ship including the Defiant. Which is highly underpowered.
Because this is a video gamecand should at least attempt to make player ships balanced. If we were to strictly follow canon ship powers then there are a lot of ships that are stronger than they should be.
What is the build that really irks you guys the most because of how damaging it can be? For educational purposes only.
a2b+dem+bfaw+apb+marion
Nothing new there. This build is op no matter the ship, as long as you have the BOFFs seating and enough guns/console to make it work. The scimitard make it even more OP with the rom BOFF, 5 tac consoles, powerful pets and a commander tac seat.
Problem is, no real hard counter to the Scimtar like ships. The feds have a dreadnought in the Gal X and it'ls not even close to the same ballpark. Crank in the fact the KDF doesn'lt have a dreadnought.
So there is nothing comparable in eithe other inventory, plus with all the singularities and such, there is really nothing at it's level.
That's the main issue I see with it. Now if the the phase lance was worth two craps and could do serious damage to a scimitar style ship, it would make the Gal X worthy of being a dreanought and an equalizer.
But alas power creep.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
a good amount of your complaints (OP) even show this, rom BOs, marion, FAW spam are not related to the scim at all.
So let me ask a simple question --- if you had the SRO BOs on say a mogh or avenger, with marion -- that is, everything pretty much the same as a top scim except you lack the cloak and cloaked barrage, would the dps gap be all that small?
IMHO the only thing wrong with the scim line is the hangar bay: it did not need that extra feature and those ships are strong.
Here's a novel suggestion. Put as much effort into developing a way to beat this ship as you do complaining about it. Believe me, developing a winning strategy is a lot more fun than posting,yet another, whining thread.
Here's a novel suggestion. Put as much effort into developing a way to beat this ship as you do complaining about it. Believe me, developing a winning strategy is a lot more fun than posting,yet another, whining thread.
Even better idea. How bout the devs do a better job of blancing ships instead of just introducing more and more power creep. Mkay pumpkin?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Even better idea. How bout the devs do a better job of blancing ships instead of just introducing more and more power creep. Mkay pumpkin?
You play a free to play model game, where the largest portion of their profits comes from selling Star Trek ships to Star Trek fans.
Do you realize how futile your idea of balance is?
Gamers want new toys. Trekkers want Trek stuff. Trek gamers want new ships to fly with new toys.
That's how this game has made its money since it discovered its store could do way more than just offer alternate skins to their own weird ship designs, and playable kllingons to people who wanted to be Worf.
a good amount of your complaints (OP) even show this, rom BOs, marion, FAW spam are not related to the scim at all.
So let me ask a simple question --- if you had the SRO BOs on say a mogh or avenger, with marion -- that is, everything pretty much the same as a top scim except you lack the cloak and cloaked barrage, would the dps gap be all that small?
IMHO the only thing wrong with the scim line is the hangar bay: it did not need that extra feature and those ships are strong.
As I stated earlier, any one of those complaints alone are unrelated to each other (and, individually, to the Scimitar), but they all come together in one ship. The Scimitar is not one single problem, it's a collection of them.
I had an Avenger with almost that exact build, and, compared to the Scimitar a good friend of mine built as close to the same way as I did as possible (for comparison's sake), my Avenger was kind of disappointing. That was a while ago, and since then, I've changed my Avenger build many times, but that test still showed a disparity between the two ships - brought about by the hangar bay my friend had, his battle cloak, and his singularity abilities - none of which my Avenger could ever use.
These ships - with the possible exception of the (cross-faction, mind you) JHAS - are by a wide margin the best ships in the game. With battle cloak + Romulan Crits + A2B/DEMarion/BFaW* + Cloaked Barrage* + 5 Tac consoles + a Hangar Bay + Singularity abilities, one has to actively try to do poorly in this ship.
i dissagree i find them to be squishy and easily blown up ........look us up in kerrat
Comments
It could be any ship, not necessarily the scimitar. It matters because the scimitar was made so powerful that every other ship lags behind in potential DPS.
just think about it as if you were fighting them yourself... and like a dev stated once: npc's can't come to the forums to complain
Tell me, why haven't they done that yet? (Sorry, couldn't resist
The whole game's balance won't be fixed be adjusting just one ship - the Scimitar isn't just one aberration, it's a combination of several (A2B/3Techs/DEMarion/BFaW, Romulan Crits, etc.)
The only way to fix the one ship by nerfing would be to nerf a few of those things - and if they did that to any one of those things that make the Scimitar so effective, I can't imagine what kind of rage they'd get from the players who enjoy using A2B/3Techs/DEMarion/BFaW, Romulan Crits, etc.
When everything is 'over powered' to the same level... nothing is. 10 damage killing a 10HP NPC in one shot is functionally equivalent to 100 damage killing a 100HP NPC in the same amount of time.
I don't care what you use. I care that a game element is imbalanced, and I'm trying to come up with solutions and get similar suggestions from players collected into a single thread, hence giving both my ideas and theirs a better chance at being seen by the Devs.
Simple answer.
You are talking about the dev team that lets well known bugs, exploits, issues caught during tribble to go live.
Latest big example? V-Rex Tagging in the Dyson Battlezone. Tribble testers caught this, reported this, yet Cryptic didn't give 2 f**ks and let it go live. Months have passed. Quite a bit of complaints laid out about it. 2013 ended and we are no fresh into March 2014, and Cryptic hasn't done squat. Special weekends for extra Marks and later Dil have come and gone. Cryptic hasn't done squat. If one didn't take advantage of this broken system during those special weekends, I'm sorry. But again, Cryptic hasn't done squat.
That's the kind of people we get to deal with.
I have a scimitar. Do you know what I fly? The D'Deridex.
I couldn't care less if it does half the damage, I like flying the D'Deridex a lot more.
It's a game, you should play the way you enjoy it the most. If you want DPS then get a scimitar too, if you don't, don't.
If the problem is with PVP then don't play against a scimitar. Eventually those who use it will change to something else.
First off I am also actually tired of "hey wanna pvp?" "Look at my awesome dps" scimi captains that have gone all dps nuts,its dulled some aspects of the game for me in terms of opponent versatility. I have not done so in my scimi, I made it for pve reman canon fun. And as I have that (reman set, plasma,mixed beams and cannons) I have actually been berated for having a "sub optimal dps build".
I wouldn't go as far as to call this a pay to win ship, the ammount of times I have seen people with that mentality raging as they are killed is hilarious.
However it does seem to have given rise to a certain type of captain that irks me. I've seen it in fleet chat, people just mauling players they know stand no chance in crazy dps scimis. This saddens me as it is a fun ship.
I have both smashed players in scimis, smashed players with my scimi, and been smashed in my scimi by other ships, I don't think its the ship so much as the captain that builds/flies it. I know my scimi build wouldn't stand a chance against my jem dread build.
Sadly I don't think its the ship pe say but some (not all) of the players that are attracted to it because of its reputation.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
Funny. I had a discussion about cannon ships. So, in actuality.
1. The Scimitar should be more powerful. It should be able to take on a Soverign Class and two Mogai class ships while cloaked.
2. The Defiant should be able to out maneuver the Bird of Prey. Additionalyl, cloak should be built in. The Defiant should also have a much stronger hull and automatic quad cannonsl.
3. The Galaxy-R should have a powerful lance cannon and cloak built in.
The only faction that don't seem to be to advance was the KDF. They should have battle cloak also like the Romulans but only on Bird of Prey to Raptor classes. Cryptic can give KDF more powerful ships starting with the Mogh and the Dyson ship. I can image the KDF building a Dreadnought ship tho.
If Cryptic did this, so many players would be pissed.
I seen so many Scimitars blown up because of bad players or bad builds. So, it's not over powered. Just learn to play against those ships.
Power creep is power creep but the Scimi jumped it from a creep to a leap.
PWE made some good money short term Im sure, but long term damaging without a restructure of ships and NPC's.
And to clarify, I own all three of these so not just being bitter "didnt want to spend the money" guy.
I understand that. I was actually pretty surprised that the Mogh/Avenger didn't have a hanger bay. I figured they'd be the fed/klink "Scimitar."
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
This is the question that people should be asking themselves.
IMHO the main problem is not the wapons layout, but the crth and crtd we can have. Every ship can have high crth and crtd with appropriate weapons, boffs fleet tactical consoles and universal consoles; other items and doffs can help you to have some more dps and resistance (resistance is not futile). All of this can be applied on every ship with little (but important) differences: because of the boffs layout, if you fly escorts you will use dhcs and turrets (and CSV) and if you fly cruisers you will use beam arrays and AtB builds (with FaW). And here comes the first big diffference: in order to have 28k dps on a escort you must also be a good pilot because DHCs have a little firing arc and you must be quick to point ad destroy, moreover CSV can hit up to 3 target at the same time. But if you fly a cruiser, even if you are not a good pilot is much more easy having 28k dps because of the greater firing arc of beam array and because FaW hit much more targets... on a cruiser highter dps are possible if you are a good pilot.
We should think about decreasing crth and crtd and/or increase npcs defence and resistance... also BFaW should be nerfed (it hits too many opponents at the some time, never miss and actually the energy drain is not a big limitation).
p.s.
I fly several ships (charal, jhas and the shimitar), for pve I use the charal (record 28k dps) and the shimitar (up to 42k dps).
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
The Scimitar suppose to be really powerful. It was depicted in the movies as such. So, why would Cryptic make it any different? Cryptic actually underpowered the ship including the Defiant. Which is highly underpowered.
So I bought one.
Meh.
Still prefer my other ship, a fleet T'varo.
I'll have to pick up some more boffs to tailor to that ship, then try it again.
What is the build that really irks you guys the most because of how damaging it can be? For educational purposes only.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=590121
Nothing new there. This build is op no matter the ship, as long as you have the BOFFs seating and enough guns/console to make it work. The scimitard make it even more OP with the rom BOFF, 5 tac consoles, powerful pets and a commander tac seat.
So there is nothing comparable in eithe other inventory, plus with all the singularities and such, there is really nothing at it's level.
That's the main issue I see with it. Now if the the phase lance was worth two craps and could do serious damage to a scimitar style ship, it would make the Gal X worthy of being a dreanought and an equalizer.
But alas power creep.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
a good amount of your complaints (OP) even show this, rom BOs, marion, FAW spam are not related to the scim at all.
So let me ask a simple question --- if you had the SRO BOs on say a mogh or avenger, with marion -- that is, everything pretty much the same as a top scim except you lack the cloak and cloaked barrage, would the dps gap be all that small?
IMHO the only thing wrong with the scim line is the hangar bay: it did not need that extra feature and those ships are strong.
Even better idea. How bout the devs do a better job of blancing ships instead of just introducing more and more power creep. Mkay pumpkin?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You play a free to play model game, where the largest portion of their profits comes from selling Star Trek ships to Star Trek fans.
Do you realize how futile your idea of balance is?
Gamers want new toys. Trekkers want Trek stuff. Trek gamers want new ships to fly with new toys.
That's how this game has made its money since it discovered its store could do way more than just offer alternate skins to their own weird ship designs, and playable kllingons to people who wanted to be Worf.
As I stated earlier, any one of those complaints alone are unrelated to each other (and, individually, to the Scimitar), but they all come together in one ship. The Scimitar is not one single problem, it's a collection of them.
I had an Avenger with almost that exact build, and, compared to the Scimitar a good friend of mine built as close to the same way as I did as possible (for comparison's sake), my Avenger was kind of disappointing. That was a while ago, and since then, I've changed my Avenger build many times, but that test still showed a disparity between the two ships - brought about by the hangar bay my friend had, his battle cloak, and his singularity abilities - none of which my Avenger could ever use.
If you do not consider the Scimitar to be a problem, please explain why. I would like to better understand your perspective on the topic
i dissagree i find them to be squishy and easily blown up ........look us up in kerrat