I think debating which type of weapon to use without some quantifiers is wrong. Are we talking about individual dps records for an ISE run. Are we talking about soloing stuff. Are we talking about PvP premade teams or pugs. Are we talking about premade STFs or pugs. It's not that simple. Do you need the extra acc. While acc does not work for acc overflow for FAW it does work for to hit. And for STFs like fleet def that extra acc is needed.
Here's an ISE log of me last nite doing just short of 23k dps, arg. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEhF6YV_JYQaldpWDhTcE83czg/edit?usp=sharing Note I did not have any buffs from consumables. No team batteries were used. No abilities were given to me from teammates. I don't have any buffs from doff missions. The only buffs I have are from my set pieces. I did use 2 individual weapons batteries. There are no pets that have APB. Beta stacking with min cycling time as listed below.
Trigger (eng) was using APB1 every 20 sec
Yet (eng) was using APB2 every 20 sec
Kalo (tac) no APB was used
Kioke (sci) APB2 every 30 sec
Arthur (?) unknown
I'm a Human Engineer. And my ship stats are as shown previously.
Note that plasma fire did 508dps. Which was 2.22% of my overall damage. I was using 1 embassy sci console fyi.
Total plasma damage from beams was 5,206,609
Total plasma Fire damage was 153,461
Net gain using plasma weapons via plasma fire=2.95%
Now obviously the plasma fire is not significant. It's in fact rather small comparatively. But that still is extra damage. Only 2 of us were using Romulan plasma beams. Yet was using 7 and I was using 5 for a total of 12 weapons that can do a disruptor proc. So uptime isn't that great. We would have benefitted more if more rom plasma weapons were used.
Would I have done better with Antiproton beams [dmg]x2 [acc]x2? No
Would I have done better with Antiproton beams [dmg]x3 [crtD]x1? No, but it's real close
Now if it was a high beta stacking group and stuff dies fast the Antiproton beams [dmg]x3 [crtD]x1 would have been best. Well actually the Plasma Beams [crtD]x3 would have been best. But who can afford 35mill per weapon. I'm lucky in that I have 2 of them from drops. I'd have sold them if I knew they were worth that much.
Here is a quantifier that always gets forgotten. All of my ships are PvP ships I run in DPS 20k circles.
Another one is that I go with the advice of Agrasiel as well as my own testing results. I have tried over a dozen weapon configurations on my scimitar alone.
Accx2Dmgx2 AP as recommended by Agrasiel (and frankly my most common PvP weapon type) has netted the best result. The switch from Romplas to AP was both palpable and decisive. My scim is now deadly in PvP and saw a moderate uptick in PvE dps at the same time. Not huge, but it remains to be seen how far I can push it. Ive seen it do well over 50k sustained for nearly a minute and then drop off as I ran out of enemies and had to move. Once I minimize downtime we shall see just how far she can go? So far I am coming up right about where I was before, but I havent been in a serious test group just yet. (I was able to do 29k on my romplas build with all 20k guys, I am estimating over 35k on this one once I am in a 20k+ group)
My main goal of this entire debate is to highlight two major flaws in the arguments people make about weapon damage types and mods.
1. That DMG is a useless mod, it is the second most powerful on most builds actually. CritD only becomes second place when you have no other way to stack severity. Acc is bar none the best mod.
2. That ACCx3 or CritDx3 are the ultimate modifier combinations. Not only does my testing not reflect this, but also just gut instinct based on something Agrasiel brought up to me that id considered all along. An AP fleet weapon has five weapon mods, and no proc. Every other weapon type has 2-4 mods and 1-2 procs, meaning the majority of their benefit is based on a tiny chance of occurence. Essentially by using a romulan plasma weapon, you are giving up three weapon modifiers for a 2.5 percent chance of something to happen. To me that just seems silly now.
In the age of ships with well over 30 percent critical hit rates, I cant see most procs even being useful much less better than a flat 20 critD you have on 30+ percent uptime toevery attack you make.
Every time I have swapped a ship out of plasma to AP, I have noted a marked increase in both spike and sustained. Testing reflects this, as does pure observational analysis.
I originally built my scimitar with romplas based on forum advice. The last thing I want to do is perpetuate bad advice (or anything less than the best advice I can give, in other words) to the next generation of DPS/PvP players.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I originally built my scimitar with romplas based on forum advice. The last thing I want to do is perpetuate bad advice (or anything less than the best advice I can give, in other words) to the next generation of DPS/PvP players.
You can most likely melt, kill, wish they never met you already. If you want or prove how good you are why not ditch the ' I win ship and gear' and trade it in for a lower ranking ship and try the same PvE and PvE, don't go public and get a few mates together. It's almost like the old days where team work was needed.......
Where ever you go, there you are.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
What if all procs triggered based on critical hits? Take protonic polarons for example. They have a 25% chance to do +x proton damage that ignores shields. What if all the energy types worked that way? It would go something like this:
Phasers: 25% chance to disable one subsystem for 5 seconds on a critical hit (Increased by subspace decompiler) and each disabled subsystem is immune to disable for 10 seconds.
Polaron: 25% chance to reduces power settings to all subsystems by X for 15 seconds on a critical hit
Disruptor: 25% chance to reduce maximum hull by X points on a critical hit
Plasma: 25% chance to do X plasma damage per second for 15 seconds directly to hull on a critical hit
Tetryon: 25% chance to do X damage to shields on a critical hit
Antiproton: +20 CritD 25% chance to disable cloak for 5 seconds on a critical hit
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
All the mal-talk on tetryons, and I'm going to agree with some other posters... looks do count.
I have the full Nukara set with a 7-beam/1-mine setup with tetryons. Just ran a CEE tonight to earn some fleet marks. My DMG listed in the chatbox showed every single tetryon beam hit with 1041 or more dmg, and the beam overloads over 1673...
I'm happy with them, and they look & sound cool...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
The Klingon version of the Point Defense Console is only available in Disruptor flavor; that's enough incentive for me to stack Disruptor Tac consoles and Disruptor weapons. If Point Defense were available in a greater variety of damage types, then I might go a different route, but that console is the deadliest gun on my ship. I'm going to get the most out of it that I can.
The Klingon version of the Point Defense Console is only available in Disruptor flavor; that's enough incentive for me to stack Disruptor Tac consoles and Disruptor weapons. If Point Defense were available in a greater variety of damage types, then I might go a different route, but that console is the deadliest gun on my ship. I'm going to get the most out of it that I can.
An estf run with everyone using AP gets a quarter longer runtime than one where everyone uses romulan plasma. The current records for stf runtimes are on romulan plasma. It's been tested to death, google it.
That's strange. Never heard of this before. Actually I can't remember anyone using romulan plasma in our speedruns.
So, this is the information thus far, if I've been following correctly, is that Antiproton is best in 50% of situations, and Romulan Plasma is best in 50% of situations. In a solo-queue situation, AP will win out, but in a pre-made group situation, Romulan Plasma will win out if many/all other players are also running romulan plasma.
Phaser/Tetryon is still the worst.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Thats my opinion. Got your own? Post it! I'm pretty curious to see who likes what form of damage type.
Thing with Polarons is that their proc does not stack hence all it does is refresh the debuff. You are not shutting down a ship's subsystems with polaron energy weapons. Also, sadly, drains (shields and power) don't work against PVE NPCs unless they're 'AI-less' npcs (basically the drones that run for the gate, etc). In PVP they're nice but not in PVE.
Personally I think the best damage type is split between disruptor, AP and Plasma.
Plasma will ONLY be good if you use the fleet consoles that literally add up to an extra tactical console worth of damage hence their sustained DPS will be higher. The plasma dot burn is TRIBBLE (aside from the rom special beam overload burn).
Disruptor reduces resists on a hull and that is an incredible damage booster for yourself and your entire team.
AP is great for high crit rate boats. In fact the most damaging ship I ever saw was a cruiser packing 8 AP turrets of critdx3 ... it was silly and crazy at the same time yet the thing was spamming critical hits of 800+ per turret crit. It was almost as if a BOP had latched onto it with a tractor beam and was spewing omega+alpha boosted dual heavy cannons.
Thing with Polarons is that their proc does not stack hence all it does is refresh the debuff. You are not shutting down a ship's subsystems with polaron energy weapons. Also, sadly, drains (shields and power) don't work against PVE NPCs unless they're 'AI-less' npcs (basically the drones that run for the gate, etc). In PVP they're nice but not in PVE.
Personally I think the best damage type is split between disruptor, AP and Plasma.
Plasma will ONLY be good if you use the fleet consoles that literally add up to an extra tactical console worth of damage hence their sustained DPS will be higher. The plasma dot burn is TRIBBLE (aside from the rom special beam overload burn).
Disruptor reduces resists on a hull and that is an incredible damage booster for yourself and your entire team.
AP is great for high crit rate boats. In fact the most damaging ship I ever saw was a cruiser packing 8 AP turrets of critdx3 ... it was silly and crazy at the same time yet the thing was spamming critical hits of 800+ per turret crit. It was almost as if a BOP had latched onto it with a tractor beam and was spewing omega+alpha boosted dual heavy cannons.
As far as I understood and experience happening with polarons is that it does stack but it's not a debuff and more of a one time drain on all systems that immediately start returning based on transfer speed. I know it stacks because I have taken a voth frigate offline at the very least in weapons, shields, and engines at the same time for a short time.
One other thing people over react with how power insulators work. At 99 points in it only reduces drain by half. 3 points in means only a quarter. With 300 in flow capacitors polaron drains 62.5 from all subsystems. Not only that if you have plasmonic leech it is another 30. Throw in a tykens rift and good bye subsystems.
An estf run with everyone using AP gets a quarter longer runtime than one where everyone uses romulan plasma. The current records for stf runtimes are on romulan plasma. It's been tested to death, google it..
Just not true. And don't tell me, we would be 25% faster with romulan plasma. With all those betas flying around a single or double disruptor proc won't make a difference at all.
And if you want to watch some pre spire console records, just use the links in my sig. Or feel free to install the STO-CombatLogReader, click DPS-League table and analyse all the listed logs. Or just ask in DPS-10/20/30k channels.
Romulan plasma are sub par, just two mods and lower base damage. You don't need any procs if your NPC opponents are annihilated in seconds. I'd go for full AP, esp. on non romulan chars. The Obelisk set is the best damage boosting set out there (Ar'kif isn't free and needs that lousy quad).
I really like my Spiral Wave Disruptors. Although the highest DPS I have personally done was with AP and 2 piece. I just dont have the critH, so at only 5%chance they may not be the best.
I do find the dual proc and Acc bonus of SWDs nice in PVP. I have to give them my vote.
Guess that means disruptors...
I honestly wish AP was not the "best" and that equal DPS can be obtained with any energy weapon type. The whole CritH and CritD thing is a bit out of control.
I use to do 100K DPS, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
Nice calculator. However it is referencing the incorrect cells. H75 thru H113 needs to reference cell I70 and not I71. All the weapons shown are being ranked with all mods included except the weapon you have selected. Referencing I71 is without any mods. I70 is with mods. Make that change and ranks will then look a lot more correct. I'd also add the ability to disable acc overflow as it does not work for FAW. And as FAW is the vast majority of damage for beam boats this will have a big impact on rankings.
I selected hybrid weapon and rom crtDx2 i also selected the 2pc rom harness for 7.6% extra plasma damage. I selected the zero point and assim 2pc and both the tachyo and bio consoles as this is what i use. This is what i got for ranks. Selected 1 for acc-mode as that is the correct way to do it as you've added.
BTW the antiproton beam dmgx3 crtDx1 beat the rom plasma beam crtDx2 by 2.42%. As i showed on my last post 2.95% of my plasma beam damage was from plasma fire. So the rom plasma beam actually beats that antiproton beam by 0.53%.
I then added 1 embassy console as i use one of those as well and got these ranks.
Note there is no provision for fire damage except as i noted. Also note there is no provision for the disruptor breech either for the rom beam. Nor the no weapon power when using the experimental rom beam. So my calculator and this one as well shows plasma beams crtDx3 as being the best. But the 2pc bonus when using the experimental rom beam should not be discounted. BTW the antiproton beam dmgx3 crtDx1 beat the rom plasma beam crtDx2 by 0.54%. As i showed on my last post 2.95% of my plasma beam damage was from plasma fire. So the rom plasma beam actually beats that antiproton beam by 2.41%. But as we used 1 emb sci consoles the non plasma weapons gain the fire dot and it should hit for a bit over 67% of the plasma weapons fire damage. Let's cal it 2% to be generous. So rom plasma beats the antiproton by 0.41%.
I then disabled acc overflow and got the following. Had to do some recoding to get this one to work.
Note the above is only during a FAW. Interesting results no? Don't take the ranking that seriously. BTW the antiproton beam dmgx3 crtDx1 beat the rom plasma beam crtDx2 by 0.52%. As i showed on my last post 2.95% of my plasma beam damage was from plasma fire. So the rom plasma beam actually beats that antiproton beam by 2.43%. And we still haven't factored in the disruptor breech. Nor the no weapon power when using the experimental rom beam. But as we used 1 emb sci consoles the non plasma weapons gain the fire dot and it should hit for approx 67% the plasma weapons and it should hit for a bit over 67% of the plasma weapons fire damage. Let's cal it 2% to be generous. So rom plasma beats the antiproton by 0.43%.
Also a quick note. Comparing very rare mk xii crtDx3 weapons. Swapping to the Polaron space set mk xii would show as being #1. However factoring in the plasma fire the very rare plasma beam mk xii crtDx3 wins out. Adding 1 sci console the plasma beam wins even before factoring in the plasma fire. You will have to spend 200 lobi to upgrade that set. But it looks to be worth it if you like polaron. And the price of very rare mk xii crtDx3 polaron beams are crtDx3=77mill lol and crtHx1 crtDx2=20mill each. As opposed to plasma beam very rare mk xii crtDx3=35mill and crtHx1 crtDx2=none available.
I still greatly question the use of the antiproton beam dmgx2 accx2 for STFs that have mostly stationary targets and if using a beam boat. Anything else and i have no issues with using those at all. The choice of using polaron beams is also good if you have the lobi upgraded 2pc space set.
Personally, after much thought and testing, I have found Polaron to be the best damage type, for a variety of reasons. Off the bat, it has one of the nastiest procs in game, essentially crippling any target it procs against. In addition, its proc is *very* easily upgraded (by improving the Flow Capacitors skill). A fully spec'd Polaron proc can essentially shutdown 3 or even 4 of a targets subsystems at once (essentially making Polaron better then Phaser in every single way, as Phaser can only shut down a single subsystem at a time). In addition to its formidable proc, Polaron is one of the few damage types to work in perfect synergy with a space set (the Jem'Hadar set, which has a 2 piece bonus that improves Polaron damage). Finally, Polaron possesses two of the most effective hybrid variants available; Phased Polaron (or "subfrackers" as many in my fleet call them) and Protonic Polaron (which, with proper specing, is arguably the highest-DPS damage type in game currently). Its proc also appears on a third highly effective weapon type, Polarized Disruptors.
Thats my opinion. Got your own? Post it! I'm pretty curious to see who likes what form of damage type.
I fully back the OP. Polarons work great on sci drain boats. Combined with other drains, they can completely cripple a ship, but by themselves are usually harmless. I say usually because some Romulan captains TRIBBLE themselves over in PvP with bad skill specing. Most captains go for disruptors, plasma, or antiprotons, but polarons are great weapons. Too bad devs don't create a lockbox mk XII hybrid tetryon/polaron variety.
The 10% proc tetryon weapons will melt shields, but you'll need accuracy boosting for those. I personally couldn't care less about the phaser proc, it's garbage, although Phased polaron weapons could be a nightmare proc combination.
I fully back the OP. Polarons work great on sci drain boats. Combined with other drains, they can completely cripple a ship, but by themselves are usually harmless. I say usually because some Romulan captains TRIBBLE themselves over in PvP with bad skill specing. Most captains go for disruptors, plasma, or antiprotons, but polarons are great weapons. Too bad devs don't create a lockbox mk XII hybrid tetryon/polaron variety.
The 10% proc tetryon weapons will melt shields, but you'll need accuracy boosting for those. I personally couldn't care less about the phaser proc, it's garbage, although Phased polaron weapons could be a nightmare proc combination.
Isn't the polarized tetryon proc bugged? I heard it runs at 0.1% chance rather than the full 10%.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
I fully back the OP. Polarons work great on sci drain boats. Combined with other drains, they can completely cripple a ship, but by themselves are usually harmless. I say usually because some Romulan captains TRIBBLE themselves over in PvP with bad skill specing. Most captains go for disruptors, plasma, or antiprotons, but polarons are great weapons. Too bad devs don't create a lockbox mk XII hybrid tetryon/polaron variety.
The 10% proc tetryon weapons will melt shields, but you'll need accuracy boosting for those. I personally couldn't care less about the phaser proc, it's garbage, although Phased polaron weapons could be a nightmare proc combination.
Dominion polaron have the combo except they only go to XI. Still, 8 damage and 1 modifier loss isn't all that bad when your target is shield less and disabled. Oh well, close enough is all we will probably get.
I don't PvP, so I don't often care which type I'm using, unless it fits the build I want.
Most of my fed tioons, for example, use phasers except my sci who used plasmas... then switched to aux phasers... Although his Atrox mixes Polaron and plasma beams (Tact slots are taken up by universals).
Klingon toons use disruptors.
My rommie, meanwhile, leveld up with plasma but now uses a Scimitar with an AP Cannon build.
First off, Tetryon. I get people are not too big on it, but it really isn't as *bad* as you'd think. If you spec into Flow Capacitors, and maybe invest in some Nukara equipment, Tetryon can be quite lethal. Refracting/Fleet Tetryon especially (not so much Phased Tetryons, which do indeed have a broken Proc rate, and Destabilized Tetryons). They are no place near as good as several of the other damage types, but they are nonetheless viable.
Secondly, Romulan Plasma. Theres a lot of people pushing it, theres a lot of people dissing it. Its really not quite as good as some of you think, BUT it is dang good in its own regard. Think about it; its Plasma damage, so you can modify it with Embassay consoles AND several set bonuses. BUT, on top of that, it has a Disruptor Proc, which is one of the most popular procs in the game. Basically, you are getting the most easily modifiable damage type in the game, with one of the most versatile weapon procs available slapped onto it. Sure, they're no Spiral Waves, but they are a lot better then you are all giving them credit for.
Thirdly...Antiproton. I'm not really understanding all the love for the Antiproton. Its a little extra crit, yes. A year ago, I would have understood why people loved it so much. But now? We have two other weapons that proc off crit (Voth Antiproton, Protonic Polaron). If you run a parser, parse full Antiproton against full Protonic Polaron (on the same builds, no changes except Tactical consoles, 20% critical chance); the Protonic Polaron does a solid bit more damage. Likewise, if you consider shield drain as damage, a fully-spec'd Tetryon build with also do more damage then Antiproton. Finally, a fully-spec'd Plasma build will do nearly the same damage from its DoTs then Antiproton will do from its bonus crits. I'm not hating on Antiproton, I run it myself, I just don't understand its immense popularity!
For a Fed the romulan plasma is the best weapon type
use the Critx2 romulan reputation plasm weapons
use romulan science consoles they add at mk Xi 9.6 % damage stack them High
you get the disruptor proc from the weapons which is TEAM wide and plasma proc
simply cant beat it
STFs are a team sport not a solo sport
Antiprotons give you 20% critD over other weapons and thats all
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
First off, Tetryon. I get people are not too big on it, but it really isn't as *bad* as you'd think. If you spec into Flow Capacitors, and maybe invest in some Nukara equipment, Tetryon can be quite lethal. Refracting/Fleet Tetryon especially (not so much Phased Tetryons, which do indeed have a broken Proc rate, and Destabilized Tetryons). They are no place near as good as several of the other damage types, but they are nonetheless viable.
Secondly, Romulan Plasma. Theres a lot of people pushing it, theres a lot of people dissing it. Its really not quite as good as some of you think, BUT it is dang good in its own regard. Think about it; its Plasma damage, so you can modify it with Embassay consoles AND several set bonuses. BUT, on top of that, it has a Disruptor Proc, which is one of the most popular procs in the game. Basically, you are getting the most easily modifiable damage type in the game, with one of the most versatile weapon procs available slapped onto it. Sure, they're no Spiral Waves, but they are a lot better then you are all giving them credit for.
Thirdly...Antiproton. I'm not really understanding all the love for the Antiproton. Its a little extra crit, yes. A year ago, I would have understood why people loved it so much. But now? We have two other weapons that proc off crit (Voth Antiproton, Protonic Polaron). If you run a parser, parse full Antiproton against full Protonic Polaron (on the same builds, no changes except Tactical consoles, 20% critical chance); the Protonic Polaron does a solid bit more damage. Likewise, if you consider shield drain as damage, a fully-spec'd Tetryon build with also do more damage then Antiproton. Finally, a fully-spec'd Plasma build will do nearly the same damage from its DoTs then Antiproton will do from its bonus crits. I'm not hating on Antiproton, I run it myself, I just don't understand its immense popularity!
- T
I have to agree. Tetryon is underestimated. I had a tetryon build that I went 1v1 with a fleet mate. After adding up the tetryon procs, Tach beam, and high flow caps, the result was not insignificant. Pair a tetryon build with tach beams and high flow caps, you've just made yourself a nice opening for a torp spread to hit bare hull.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
I'll throw in my 2EC's worth although I'm by no means an expert.
To ask the question broadly of what energy type is best will yield a broad range of opinions as we have seen so far. So, let's be more specific. We need to ask what is the best energy type for various purposes throughout the game? What is the best energy type for my at the stage I'm at?
So while Anti-Proton might be ideal it's worthless if you can't afford to build for it. It's the same for any energy type really. People slap the flavor of the day on their ship and expect to be king of the hill only to find out they're doing worse than before.
So, here's what little I know about it.
Anti-Protons are truly amazing purely from a mathematical perspective. You don't have a 2.5% change to do extra damage, you have whatever change your critical hit rating gives you. Which means you need to get your crit rate as high as possible.
Which is not as easy as it might sound. You would have to put 9 points into energy weapons and also maybe in projectile weapons. Why? Because doing so gives you 2% improved crit rate. Then there's rep consoles, embassy boffs and some other things that gives minor bonuses. Romulan T2 rep gives you another 3% via the rep skill unlock.
So yes, if you're an established endgame player who's done the needed rep grinds and can get to all the crit goodies then Anti-Proton is very good in PvE where things don't have much shields.
Effectiveness in PvP would perhaps be less certain. Under the right conditions (meaning you catch your opponent with his pants down and no RSP up and you hit him with a superb Alpha strike while de-cloaking) it can be good.
If you're a cruiser with no stealth or huge spike damage then you're maybe better off with Plasma or Polaron for sustained damage while being useful to your team mates. Sure Plasma DoT can be easily cleaned but your job as a cruiser is to apply pressure. The more you make the enemy worry about the little things like plasma burns the less they notice your buddies sneaking up on them.
So yeah, when choosing an energy type first make sure you know exactly what you need to do to make it work and then either change your build or wait until you can. Personally I use Polaron on my engineer cruiser because I can get the most out of it right now. And I love the energy syphon. But that's just me.
Comments
Here is a quantifier that always gets forgotten. All of my ships are PvP ships I run in DPS 20k circles.
Another one is that I go with the advice of Agrasiel as well as my own testing results. I have tried over a dozen weapon configurations on my scimitar alone.
Accx2Dmgx2 AP as recommended by Agrasiel (and frankly my most common PvP weapon type) has netted the best result. The switch from Romplas to AP was both palpable and decisive. My scim is now deadly in PvP and saw a moderate uptick in PvE dps at the same time. Not huge, but it remains to be seen how far I can push it. Ive seen it do well over 50k sustained for nearly a minute and then drop off as I ran out of enemies and had to move. Once I minimize downtime we shall see just how far she can go? So far I am coming up right about where I was before, but I havent been in a serious test group just yet. (I was able to do 29k on my romplas build with all 20k guys, I am estimating over 35k on this one once I am in a 20k+ group)
My main goal of this entire debate is to highlight two major flaws in the arguments people make about weapon damage types and mods.
1. That DMG is a useless mod, it is the second most powerful on most builds actually. CritD only becomes second place when you have no other way to stack severity. Acc is bar none the best mod.
2. That ACCx3 or CritDx3 are the ultimate modifier combinations. Not only does my testing not reflect this, but also just gut instinct based on something Agrasiel brought up to me that id considered all along. An AP fleet weapon has five weapon mods, and no proc. Every other weapon type has 2-4 mods and 1-2 procs, meaning the majority of their benefit is based on a tiny chance of occurence. Essentially by using a romulan plasma weapon, you are giving up three weapon modifiers for a 2.5 percent chance of something to happen. To me that just seems silly now.
In the age of ships with well over 30 percent critical hit rates, I cant see most procs even being useful much less better than a flat 20 critD you have on 30+ percent uptime toevery attack you make.
Every time I have swapped a ship out of plasma to AP, I have noted a marked increase in both spike and sustained. Testing reflects this, as does pure observational analysis.
I originally built my scimitar with romplas based on forum advice. The last thing I want to do is perpetuate bad advice (or anything less than the best advice I can give, in other words) to the next generation of DPS/PvP players.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
You can most likely melt, kill, wish they never met you already. If you want or prove how good you are why not ditch the ' I win ship and gear' and trade it in for a lower ranking ship and try the same PvE and PvE, don't go public and get a few mates together. It's almost like the old days where team work was needed.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
Phasers: 25% chance to disable one subsystem for 5 seconds on a critical hit (Increased by subspace decompiler) and each disabled subsystem is immune to disable for 10 seconds.
Polaron: 25% chance to reduces power settings to all subsystems by X for 15 seconds on a critical hit
Disruptor: 25% chance to reduce maximum hull by X points on a critical hit
Plasma: 25% chance to do X plasma damage per second for 15 seconds directly to hull on a critical hit
Tetryon: 25% chance to do X damage to shields on a critical hit
Antiproton: +20 CritD 25% chance to disable cloak for 5 seconds on a critical hit
I have the full Nukara set with a 7-beam/1-mine setup with tetryons. Just ran a CEE tonight to earn some fleet marks. My DMG listed in the chatbox showed every single tetryon beam hit with 1041 or more dmg, and the beam overloads over 1673...
I'm happy with them, and they look & sound cool...
CM
That's a rather sad thing.;)
That's strange. Never heard of this before. Actually I can't remember anyone using romulan plasma in our speedruns.
STO-League.com | Weapon Damage Calculator | DPS Web Tools | STO-Center Forums
If you can unseat their romulan plasma scimis for stf times, youtube it and troll their channels with it.:cool:
Actually I participated in most speedrun "records" in the last months. Nobody used romulan plasma.
STO-League.com | Weapon Damage Calculator | DPS Web Tools | STO-Center Forums
Phaser/Tetryon is still the worst.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Do share.;)
Thing with Polarons is that their proc does not stack hence all it does is refresh the debuff. You are not shutting down a ship's subsystems with polaron energy weapons. Also, sadly, drains (shields and power) don't work against PVE NPCs unless they're 'AI-less' npcs (basically the drones that run for the gate, etc). In PVP they're nice but not in PVE.
Personally I think the best damage type is split between disruptor, AP and Plasma.
Plasma will ONLY be good if you use the fleet consoles that literally add up to an extra tactical console worth of damage hence their sustained DPS will be higher. The plasma dot burn is TRIBBLE (aside from the rom special beam overload burn).
Disruptor reduces resists on a hull and that is an incredible damage booster for yourself and your entire team.
AP is great for high crit rate boats. In fact the most damaging ship I ever saw was a cruiser packing 8 AP turrets of critdx3 ... it was silly and crazy at the same time yet the thing was spamming critical hits of 800+ per turret crit. It was almost as if a BOP had latched onto it with a tractor beam and was spewing omega+alpha boosted dual heavy cannons.
As far as I understood and experience happening with polarons is that it does stack but it's not a debuff and more of a one time drain on all systems that immediately start returning based on transfer speed. I know it stacks because I have taken a voth frigate offline at the very least in weapons, shields, and engines at the same time for a short time.
One other thing people over react with how power insulators work. At 99 points in it only reduces drain by half. 3 points in means only a quarter. With 300 in flow capacitors polaron drains 62.5 from all subsystems. Not only that if you have plasmonic leech it is another 30. Throw in a tykens rift and good bye subsystems.
There you go...
My fastest HSE: 112 seconds (still 2nd fastest speedrun):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2bwzpw3w7kqi32/Hive_Space_08-02-2014_15-08 41k dps.log
3* AP, 1* Disruptor, 1* Plasma
Best HSE: 100 seconds
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5rgxliv8e8svr2/hse speed 140.log
3* AP, 2* Disruptor
Best CSE: 88 seconds
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukpwjuwhqqt335y/88s CSE.log
3* AP, 1* Disruptor, 1* Romulan Plasma (hint, it's a 2-1-2 split)
Fastest ISE: 63 seconds
https://www.dropbox.com/s/130wmocytfjohfu/ise record 83.log
3* AP, 1* Disruptor, 1* Plasma (a single romulan plasma as it seems)
And that's your statement:
Just not true. And don't tell me, we would be 25% faster with romulan plasma. With all those betas flying around a single or double disruptor proc won't make a difference at all.
And if you want to watch some pre spire console records, just use the links in my sig. Or feel free to install the STO-CombatLogReader, click DPS-League table and analyse all the listed logs. Or just ask in DPS-10/20/30k channels.
STO-League.com | Weapon Damage Calculator | DPS Web Tools | STO-Center Forums
Romulan plasma are sub par, just two mods and lower base damage. You don't need any procs if your NPC opponents are annihilated in seconds. I'd go for full AP, esp. on non romulan chars. The Obelisk set is the best damage boosting set out there (Ar'kif isn't free and needs that lousy quad).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pqjij3945tir5d/Calculator_English.xlsm
STO-League.com | Weapon Damage Calculator | DPS Web Tools | STO-Center Forums
I do find the dual proc and Acc bonus of SWDs nice in PVP. I have to give them my vote.
Guess that means disruptors...
I honestly wish AP was not the "best" and that equal DPS can be obtained with any energy weapon type. The whole CritH and CritD thing is a bit out of control.
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
Nice calculator. However it is referencing the incorrect cells. H75 thru H113 needs to reference cell I70 and not I71. All the weapons shown are being ranked with all mods included except the weapon you have selected. Referencing I71 is without any mods. I70 is with mods. Make that change and ranks will then look a lot more correct. I'd also add the ability to disable acc overflow as it does not work for FAW. And as FAW is the vast majority of damage for beam boats this will have a big impact on rankings.
I selected hybrid weapon and rom crtDx2 i also selected the 2pc rom harness for 7.6% extra plasma damage. I selected the zero point and assim 2pc and both the tachyo and bio consoles as this is what i use. This is what i got for ranks. Selected 1 for acc-mode as that is the correct way to do it as you've added.
1 plasma beam crtDx3
2 plasma beam crtDx2 crtHx1
3 antiproton beam dmgx3 CrtDx1
7 antiproton beam dmgx3 crtHx1
9 antiproton beam dmgx2 accx2
10 advanced fleet plasma beam dmgx3 crtDx1
11 antiproton beam dmgx3 accx1
13 rom plasma beam crtDx2
BTW the antiproton beam dmgx3 crtDx1 beat the rom plasma beam crtDx2 by 2.42%. As i showed on my last post 2.95% of my plasma beam damage was from plasma fire. So the rom plasma beam actually beats that antiproton beam by 0.53%.
I then added 1 embassy console as i use one of those as well and got these ranks.
1 plasma beam crtDx3
2 plasma beam crtDx2 crtHx1
7 antiproton beam dmgx3 CrtDx1
8 advanced fleet plasma beam dmgx3 crtDx1
10 rom plasma beam crtDx2
14 antiproton beam dmgx3 crtHx1
19 antiproton beam dmgx2 accx2
21 antiproton beam dmgx3 accx1
Note there is no provision for fire damage except as i noted. Also note there is no provision for the disruptor breech either for the rom beam. Nor the no weapon power when using the experimental rom beam. So my calculator and this one as well shows plasma beams crtDx3 as being the best. But the 2pc bonus when using the experimental rom beam should not be discounted. BTW the antiproton beam dmgx3 crtDx1 beat the rom plasma beam crtDx2 by 0.54%. As i showed on my last post 2.95% of my plasma beam damage was from plasma fire. So the rom plasma beam actually beats that antiproton beam by 2.41%. But as we used 1 emb sci consoles the non plasma weapons gain the fire dot and it should hit for a bit over 67% of the plasma weapons fire damage. Let's cal it 2% to be generous. So rom plasma beats the antiproton by 0.41%.
I then disabled acc overflow and got the following. Had to do some recoding to get this one to work.
1 plasma beam crtDx3
2 plasma beam crtDx2 crtHx1
5 advanced fleet plasma beam dmgx3 crtDx1
6 antiproton beam dmgx3 CrtDx1
9 rom plasma beam crtDx2
11 antiproton beam dmgx3 crtHx1
23 antiproton beam dmgx3 accx1
31 antiproton beam dmgx2 accx2
Note the above is only during a FAW. Interesting results no? Don't take the ranking that seriously. BTW the antiproton beam dmgx3 crtDx1 beat the rom plasma beam crtDx2 by 0.52%. As i showed on my last post 2.95% of my plasma beam damage was from plasma fire. So the rom plasma beam actually beats that antiproton beam by 2.43%. And we still haven't factored in the disruptor breech. Nor the no weapon power when using the experimental rom beam. But as we used 1 emb sci consoles the non plasma weapons gain the fire dot and it should hit for approx 67% the plasma weapons and it should hit for a bit over 67% of the plasma weapons fire damage. Let's cal it 2% to be generous. So rom plasma beats the antiproton by 0.43%.
Also a quick note. Comparing very rare mk xii crtDx3 weapons. Swapping to the Polaron space set mk xii would show as being #1. However factoring in the plasma fire the very rare plasma beam mk xii crtDx3 wins out. Adding 1 sci console the plasma beam wins even before factoring in the plasma fire. You will have to spend 200 lobi to upgrade that set. But it looks to be worth it if you like polaron. And the price of very rare mk xii crtDx3 polaron beams are crtDx3=77mill lol and crtHx1 crtDx2=20mill each. As opposed to plasma beam very rare mk xii crtDx3=35mill and crtHx1 crtDx2=none available.
I still greatly question the use of the antiproton beam dmgx2 accx2 for STFs that have mostly stationary targets and if using a beam boat. Anything else and i have no issues with using those at all. The choice of using polaron beams is also good if you have the lobi upgraded 2pc space set.
I fully back the OP. Polarons work great on sci drain boats. Combined with other drains, they can completely cripple a ship, but by themselves are usually harmless. I say usually because some Romulan captains TRIBBLE themselves over in PvP with bad skill specing. Most captains go for disruptors, plasma, or antiprotons, but polarons are great weapons. Too bad devs don't create a lockbox mk XII hybrid tetryon/polaron variety.
The 10% proc tetryon weapons will melt shields, but you'll need accuracy boosting for those. I personally couldn't care less about the phaser proc, it's garbage, although Phased polaron weapons could be a nightmare proc combination.
Isn't the polarized tetryon proc bugged? I heard it runs at 0.1% chance rather than the full 10%.
Dominion polaron have the combo except they only go to XI. Still, 8 damage and 1 modifier loss isn't all that bad when your target is shield less and disabled. Oh well, close enough is all we will probably get.
Most of my fed tioons, for example, use phasers except my sci who used plasmas... then switched to aux phasers... Although his Atrox mixes Polaron and plasma beams (Tact slots are taken up by universals).
Klingon toons use disruptors.
My rommie, meanwhile, leveld up with plasma but now uses a Scimitar with an AP Cannon build.
At this point, I'd agree that phaser is probably the worst damage type in game since its hard to modify...
Tetryon, on the other hand, I'd have to disagree with. If you spec into Flow Capacitors...that stuff hurts! haha.
First off, Tetryon. I get people are not too big on it, but it really isn't as *bad* as you'd think. If you spec into Flow Capacitors, and maybe invest in some Nukara equipment, Tetryon can be quite lethal. Refracting/Fleet Tetryon especially (not so much Phased Tetryons, which do indeed have a broken Proc rate, and Destabilized Tetryons). They are no place near as good as several of the other damage types, but they are nonetheless viable.
Secondly, Romulan Plasma. Theres a lot of people pushing it, theres a lot of people dissing it. Its really not quite as good as some of you think, BUT it is dang good in its own regard. Think about it; its Plasma damage, so you can modify it with Embassay consoles AND several set bonuses. BUT, on top of that, it has a Disruptor Proc, which is one of the most popular procs in the game. Basically, you are getting the most easily modifiable damage type in the game, with one of the most versatile weapon procs available slapped onto it. Sure, they're no Spiral Waves, but they are a lot better then you are all giving them credit for.
Thirdly...Antiproton. I'm not really understanding all the love for the Antiproton. Its a little extra crit, yes. A year ago, I would have understood why people loved it so much. But now? We have two other weapons that proc off crit (Voth Antiproton, Protonic Polaron). If you run a parser, parse full Antiproton against full Protonic Polaron (on the same builds, no changes except Tactical consoles, 20% critical chance); the Protonic Polaron does a solid bit more damage. Likewise, if you consider shield drain as damage, a fully-spec'd Tetryon build with also do more damage then Antiproton. Finally, a fully-spec'd Plasma build will do nearly the same damage from its DoTs then Antiproton will do from its bonus crits. I'm not hating on Antiproton, I run it myself, I just don't understand its immense popularity!
- T
use the Critx2 romulan reputation plasm weapons
use romulan science consoles they add at mk Xi 9.6 % damage stack them High
you get the disruptor proc from the weapons which is TEAM wide and plasma proc
simply cant beat it
STFs are a team sport not a solo sport
Antiprotons give you 20% critD over other weapons and thats all
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I have to agree. Tetryon is underestimated. I had a tetryon build that I went 1v1 with a fleet mate. After adding up the tetryon procs, Tach beam, and high flow caps, the result was not insignificant. Pair a tetryon build with tach beams and high flow caps, you've just made yourself a nice opening for a torp spread to hit bare hull.
To ask the question broadly of what energy type is best will yield a broad range of opinions as we have seen so far. So, let's be more specific. We need to ask what is the best energy type for various purposes throughout the game? What is the best energy type for my at the stage I'm at?
So while Anti-Proton might be ideal it's worthless if you can't afford to build for it. It's the same for any energy type really. People slap the flavor of the day on their ship and expect to be king of the hill only to find out they're doing worse than before.
So, here's what little I know about it.
Anti-Protons are truly amazing purely from a mathematical perspective. You don't have a 2.5% change to do extra damage, you have whatever change your critical hit rating gives you. Which means you need to get your crit rate as high as possible.
Which is not as easy as it might sound. You would have to put 9 points into energy weapons and also maybe in projectile weapons. Why? Because doing so gives you 2% improved crit rate. Then there's rep consoles, embassy boffs and some other things that gives minor bonuses. Romulan T2 rep gives you another 3% via the rep skill unlock.
So yes, if you're an established endgame player who's done the needed rep grinds and can get to all the crit goodies then Anti-Proton is very good in PvE where things don't have much shields.
Effectiveness in PvP would perhaps be less certain. Under the right conditions (meaning you catch your opponent with his pants down and no RSP up and you hit him with a superb Alpha strike while de-cloaking) it can be good.
If you're a cruiser with no stealth or huge spike damage then you're maybe better off with Plasma or Polaron for sustained damage while being useful to your team mates. Sure Plasma DoT can be easily cleaned but your job as a cruiser is to apply pressure. The more you make the enemy worry about the little things like plasma burns the less they notice your buddies sneaking up on them.
So yeah, when choosing an energy type first make sure you know exactly what you need to do to make it work and then either change your build or wait until you can. Personally I use Polaron on my engineer cruiser because I can get the most out of it right now. And I love the energy syphon. But that's just me.