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STO Debate Club: Energy Weapon Types

torvinecho25torvinecho25 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
edited January 2015 in Federation Discussion
Alrighty guys!

What do you all think is the absolute overall BEST core energy weapon type for space combat?

Phaser, Disruptor, Plasma, Tetryon, Polaron, or Antiproton?

Lets get some opinions, both for newer players to reference and older players to consider. PLEASE give reasons for your choices, don't post something like "antiproton is the because I say so" or "phaser is the best because it looks the nicest and its what I use so.."Give reasons, use your words. Be innovative :)

Personally, after much thought and testing, I have found Polaron to be the best damage type, for a variety of reasons. Off the bat, it has one of the nastiest procs in game, essentially crippling any target it procs against. In addition, its proc is *very* easily upgraded (by improving the Flow Capacitors skill). A fully spec'd Polaron proc can essentially shutdown 3 or even 4 of a targets subsystems at once (essentially making Polaron better then Phaser in every single way, as Phaser can only shut down a single subsystem at a time). In addition to its formidable proc, Polaron is one of the few damage types to work in perfect synergy with a space set (the Jem'Hadar set, which has a 2 piece bonus that improves Polaron damage). Finally, Polaron possesses two of the most effective hybrid variants available; Phased Polaron (or "subfrackers" as many in my fleet call them) and Protonic Polaron (which, with proper specing, is arguably the highest-DPS damage type in game currently). Its proc also appears on a third highly effective weapon type, Polarized Disruptors.

Thats my opinion. Got your own? Post it! I'm pretty curious to see who likes what form of damage type. :D
Post edited by torvinecho25 on
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Comments

  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    With crit rates as high as they are, Antiproton is now the king of all the damage types, bar none.

    You simply cannot beat out +20critD with a 20+ percent chance vs a 2.5 percent chance for "something" to happen.

    The only exceptions are super procs like an Elachi DBB for the overload crits that punch right through shields.

    But as a damage type in and of itself, AP is now boss tier. (and oh can i remember the hecklers six months ago when i was championing AP when disruptor was the boss tier weapon, suck on that, ah haha, but i digress)

    Polaron would be tied with plasma as the runner up

    Tets/Disruptors as third rate

    Phasers suck (at least from a proc standpoint, and only outside of PvP, they are bossmode in PvP)





    Voth AP are somewhere down here.


    Oh yeah, one last thought. I am well aware any weapon type with one critD mod has the same bonus as an AP weapon, but its now a three mod vs a four mod (in the case of fleet APs), so you lose a whole mod to gain the CritD bonus.
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  • donrahdonrah Member Posts: 348
    edited February 2014
    I have to throw in my vote for polaron. AP is great if you're going for the highest damage possible and you can destroy a target before they can fire back, but polaron adds a defensive bonus. If you're built to drain, you're protecting yourself from return fire. Draining your target reduces their damage, if it doesn't disable their weapons entirely. If they're a in a torp boat, you can drain their engines so they can't move and then you attack from the side, outside of their firing arc. This is probably the best energy type for science ships.

    In defense of AP, there is the omni-directional beam array. This is an all-in-one tool for subsystem targeting. You can drain/disable a target from any direction. There is no way to avoid its arc besides getting out of range. In general, AP is the best escort/BFAW cruiser energy type due to their high crit potential.

    Though there is an ideal energy type for DPS, there are ideal energy types for specific ships. The Vesta class has the Aux DHC. Arguably the best weapon for that ship. It draws power from aux rather than weapons so you can focus your power levels there, which removes the dichotomy of weapons versus science powers. Outside of the Vesta, phasers aren't reliable for their proc.
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  • alfamegaalfamega Member Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    1. disruptor. the proc is often overlooked, just because the numbers shown in tooltip are wrong. its not 10% debuff, its up to 40% debuf vs. disruptor damage and up to 15% vs. everything else.

    2. polaron/polarized. best general debuff. with leech console its around -60 in total, which enough to shutdown most pve targets.
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    alfamega wrote: »
    1. disruptor. the proc is often overlooked, just because the numbers shown in tooltip are wrong. its not 10% debuff, its up to 40% debuf vs. disruptor damage and up to 15% vs. everything else.

    2. polaron/polarized. best general debuff. with leech console its around -60 in total, which enough to shutdown most pve targets.

    Its not a percent, just fyi.

    Its - 10 resist, which is actually closer to 1.5%

    Even if its stacked all the way up it doesnt reach 10%
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  • daeynadaeyna Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Antiproton is the best damage type, there is no competition.

    Plasma. Due to Borg (E)Stfs, everyone has access to shields with plasma resist. Even consoles can't jack the damage up high enough to be useful anymore. The dot is easily cleaned.

    Polaron. Terrible damage type. Easily mitigated by a few well placed skill points.

    Tetryon, Phaser. Weak to the point of general uselessness. They have very small areas where they have the opportunity to be powerful, but limited function yields limited usefulness.

    Disruptor. With the over kill of beta and other resistance lowering skills Disruptor loses power fast. Lowering resistances has dimishing returns (small), but overall slowly lowers the function of the proc.

    Antiproton. The only damage type which places majority control in the players hands. You want the critical damage? Stack critical hit.

    Choosing any damage type with a 2.5% chance on hit, doesn't make any sense. Especially when a damage type is available that is always on, and its chance is dependant on player choice.

    Antiproton is the best damage type. Choice is the best for fun.

    We have a tie.

    Antiproton vs. Choice.
  • nobletnoblet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    daeyna wrote: »
    Antiproton is the best damage type, there is no competition.

    Plasma. Due to Borg (E)Stfs, everyone has access to shields with plasma resist. Even consoles can't jack the damage up high enough to be useful anymore. The dot is easily cleaned.

    Polaron. Terrible damage type. Easily mitigated by a few well placed skill points.

    Tetryon, Phaser. Weak to the point of general uselessness. They have very small areas where they have the opportunity to be powerful, but limited function yields limited usefulness.

    Disruptor. With the over kill of beta and other resistance lowering skills Disruptor loses power fast. Lowering resistances has dimishing returns (small), but overall slowly lowers the function of the proc.

    Antiproton. The only damage type which places majority control in the players hands. You want the critical damage? Stack critical hit.

    Choosing any damage type with a 2.5% chance on hit, doesn't make any sense. Especially when a damage type is available that is always on, and its chance is dependant on player choice.

    Antiproton is the best damage type. Choice is the best for fun.

    We have a tie.

    Antiproton vs. Choice.

    You know what the irony is? The kind of noobs that take stf shields instead of elite fleet shields into pvp are easily dispatched with anything, including plasma.

    In any case, both dps log and stf time records are set using Romulan Plasma. Google it if you want to know why. There's talk, and then there's what happens.
  • alfamegaalfamega Member Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Its not a percent, just fyi.
    Its - 10 resist, which is actually closer to 1.5%
    Even if its stacked all the way up it doesnt reach 10%

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=611371
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=377081
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I'd say disruptors, not because they're always the best (in a lot of cases something else is better), but in almost every situation they're at least #2, so you don't have to swap weapons ship to ship and build to build. Moreover, you don't have to spec into anything to use them, no flow caps or crth or anything, just slot them and go. They're like the AK47 of Star Trek; other stuff might be better or fancier in the right circumstances, but you can ALWAYS depend on disruptors.

    Now if only they came in orange so they didn't look so wrong on a Fed ship.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014

    Thats my opinion. Got your own? Post it!

    Andorian Phasers. They have all the firepower of regular phasers, but are blue. So they look cool.
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  • jonathanlonehawkjonathanlonehawk Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I'd say disruptors, not because they're always the best (in a lot of cases something else is better), but in almost every situation they're at least #2, so you don't have to swap weapons ship to ship and build to build. Moreover, you don't have to spec into anything to use them, no flow caps or crth or anything, just slot them and go. They're like the AK47 of Star Trek; other stuff might be better or fancier in the right circumstances, but you can ALWAYS depend on disruptors.

    Now if only they came in orange so they didn't look so wrong on a Fed ship.

    Spiral Wave Disruptors... Yellow

    But you have to get a Lockbox ship. =)
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  • priestofsin420priestofsin420 Member Posts: 419
    edited February 2014
    Antiproton is the best, without a doubt.

    Worst is a tie between Phaser, Polaron, and Tetryon. They're all awful. Polaron becomes "ok" when you use the Jem'Hadar set.
    Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos
    Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
    Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
  • xigbargxigbarg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    What about retro phasers. They're blue too!
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    xigbarg wrote: »
    What about retro phasers. They're blue too!

    They are indeed. And I do run them on Rear Admiral cruisers I have levelled up. But for Vice Admiral and for Mk XII's the Andorians just rock out so freakin much. They've got solid ancillary bonuses.

    And are Mk XII.

    And BLUE.

    Absolutely been in love with them since they first put out the Kumari.
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  • xigbargxigbarg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I yield to their greatness.
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  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Disruptors are the best for 'general purpose'. Their proc is an always useful thing to have in almost any situation, and helps out a team's entire damage if they are shooting at the target in question. Even if not, they still help the person shooting.

    Antiproton take the cake IF you have the resources to make them work. You HAVE to HAVE crit to make them get anything out of em that can match or surpass other energy types. If you ain't got the crit, you ain't got that much of anything.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Disruptors are the best for 'general purpose'. Their proc is an always useful thing to have in almost any situation, and helps out a team's entire damage if they are shooting at the target in question. Even if not, they still help the person shooting.

    And this is why I go for Disruptor. The fact I use Spiral Wave makes it even better :)
  • nobletnoblet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    And this is why I go for Disruptor. The fact I use Spiral Wave makes it even better :)

    Spiral waves don't get an extra tac console for every 3 science consoles. It's the wrong disruptor derivative.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited February 2014
  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You can have my phaser when you pry it from my cold dead hand

    (although seriously the proc is bit meh, I'd rather phasers had an innate accuracy bonus like how AP has an innate CrtD bonus)
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Romulan Plasma is best. It has the 2 best procs for damage dealing and you can pick any combination of 2 mods on it, unlike AP which only comes in certain mods. Dil store and crafted AP weapons are inferior, so the only good AP weapons are Fleet AP weapons which are stuck with 2 or 3 DMG mods which aren't very good, while Romulan Plasma comes with 2 good procs and 2 good mods of your choice.

    Ap weapons can only come with 2 CrtD mods if you use the Mk XI dil store version, or only 1 if you use the fleet DMG x3 version or no CrtD mods if you take the Acc x2 Dmg x2 version, so CrtD x2 Romulan plasma can get the same CrtD as fleet AP weapons and give up only 3 useless Dmg mods and get 2 excellent procs in return. Then when you add bonus damage from embassy consoles and 2 piece romulan set its no contest.
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  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Romulan Plasma is best. It has the 2 best procs for damage dealing and you can pick any combination of 2 mods on it, unlike AP which only comes in certain mods. Dil store and crafted AP weapons are inferior, so the only good AP weapons are Fleet AP weapons which are stuck with 2 or 3 DMG mods which aren't very good, while Romulan Plasma comes with 2 good procs and 2 good mods of your choice.

    Ap weapons can only come with 2 CrtD mods if you use the Mk XI dil store version, or only 1 if you use the fleet DMG x3 version or no CrtD mods if you take the Acc x2 Dmg x2 version, so CrtD x2 Romulan plasma can get the same CrtD as fleet AP weapons and give up only 3 useless Dmg mods and get 2 excellent procs in return. Then when you add bonus damage from embassy consoles and 2 piece romulan set its no contest.

    I really wish people would stop this hatefest on the DMG mod. Its actually very good, a full set of DMG modded weapons is about worth a full tactical console of damage

    DMGx2 on a five console ship would come out to about a 7 tac console ship in the math, if you follow.

    Romplas accx2 does way less damage than Fleet AP Accx2DMGx2

    Embassy consoles only raise overall DPS by about 1 percent per console. Not worth the investment really.
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I've traditionally been a Disruptor guy. Quite a number of my characters/builds rely on the energy type. You don't have to do anything out of the ordinary to make Disruptors work. There are some nifty Disruptor types, my favorite being Elachi DBB's with Beam Overloads and the Elachi Proc kicking in.

    Also, Romulan Plasma is very good. Not my favorite but I acknowledge its usefulness in combining the best of two worlds, Plasma and Disruptor procs. There's more ways of boosting Plasma Damage than anything else right now.

    Antiproton, specifically non-Voth Antiproton (Voth AP, I consider quite useless) - Even before recent changes, I always had a respected place for Antiproton. It does not rely on a lousy 2.5% chance to occur. There is no "proc" to AP. It is simply, raw extra Critical Dmg Bonus. As someone earlier in the thread mentioned, there are very high crit builds out there, most esp. with the Romulans/Remans. And the extra crit severity is a magnificent companion to that.
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  • donrahdonrah Member Posts: 348
    edited February 2014
    Well, there's a problem with emergence of an "best" energy type. When you specialize (since AP tends to require heavy investment into critical damage), you sacrifice adaptability. When people start to anticipate the prevalence of a particular type, they prepare for it with more resistance to that type. The "best" energy type is probably the one that isn't being countered at the moment.
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  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I really wish people would stop this hatefest on the DMG mod. Its actually very good, a full set of DMG modded weapons is about worth a full tactical console of damage

    DMGx2 on a five console ship would come out to about a 7 tac console ship in the math, if you follow.
    HERESY

    off to the inquisition with you
    Romplas accx2 does way less damage than Fleet AP Accx2DMGx2
    Yeah but it's a nicer shade of green mixed with the teal

    Which is totally worth the 25k dilth I paid :V
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I really wish people would stop this hatefest on the DMG mod. Its actually very good, a full set of DMG modded weapons is about worth a full tactical console of damage

    DMGx2 on a five console ship would come out to about a 7 tac console ship in the math, if you follow.

    Romplas accx2 does way less damage than Fleet AP Accx2DMGx2

    Embassy consoles only raise overall DPS by about 1 percent per console. Not worth the investment really.

    You don't really need acc x2 in pve, there is enough acc from spec, traits, nukara console and a deflector if you need more, I use CrtDx2 Rom Plasma DHC or beams for pve and hardly miss. I was comparing CrtD x2 Rom Plasma weapons to AP in PVE, and I get samr CrtD then Dmg x3 CrtD AP fleet weapons or more CrtD then Acc x2 Dmg x2 AP fleet weapons.

    So I will have no problem giving up a couple Acc or Dmg mods for the 2 Rom plasma procs and for it being plasma damage type so the romulan 2 piece set and embassy consoles can buff the base damage and the proc damage and more then make up for losing some Acc or Dmg. I normally am using 3 and the set, so is like another tac console.

    Ap weapons are still good, especially if the person isn't using an embassy console and 2 piece romulan set with the beam and zero point console, but just not as good for pve.
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  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I like Polaron for my tulwar - but not any old polaron - protonic polaron


    Really, its the best of many worlds - drain, cheapness (if you get very lucky - otherwise its dil to ec cost is comparable to a decent standard XII energy type off the exchange, if not less) and a very nasty proc built off crit

    ..and what do Rommies have lots of?

    Exactly :p

    ...and once you add in buffs (yes, the proc damage is buffable via boff/captain skills), you have a proc that is doing direct hull damage , ignoring the shields which may be buffed to the extremes - whilst at the same time your good old polaron proc is mitigating your damage and slowing your target down

    (although with faw as it is, I do regret not getting acc/crth instead of accx2...)
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    stofsk wrote: »
    Yeah but it's a nicer shade of green mixed with the teal

    Heh, if you haven't already guessed by now, my energy weapon decisions are made from the same mindset.

    :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • nobletnoblet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I really wish people would stop this hatefest on the DMG mod. Its actually very good, a full set of DMG modded weapons is about worth a full tactical console of damage

    DMGx2 on a five console ship would come out to about a 7 tac console ship in the math, if you follow.

    Romplas accx2 does way less damage than Fleet AP Accx2DMGx2

    Embassy consoles only raise overall DPS by about 1 percent per console. Not worth the investment really.

    You need work on your math. That dmgx2 mod doesn't do nearly as much dmg as you think. Cryptic still haven't fixed scaling problem of the dmg modifier. The bigger issue is, AP doesn't get the extra tac console for every 3 science consoles. It adds up to far more dmg than a dozen modifer of any flavor, much less just 2 dmg modifiers. All that is before the awesome disruptor proc, that helps everyone in your team. It translates to far more dmg for the entire team than a bit more crit severity for yourself.
  • captaindecker12captaindecker12 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Of the seventeen fully realized energy types, I'd order them thusly:

    1. Elachi Disruptor
    2. Romulan Plasma
    3. Antiproton
    4. Disruptor
    5. Nanite Disruptor
    6. Polarized Disruptor
    7. Plasma
    8. Phaser (tie)
    8. Andorian Phaser (tie)
    10. Protonic Polaron
    11. Phased Polaron
    12. Polaron
    13. Voth Antiproton
    14. Phased Tetryon
    15. Destabilizing Tetryon
    16. Refracting Tetryon
    17. Tetryon

    However, Spiral Wave Disruptors are probably the best single beam arrays out there, beacuse they receive four modifiers and combine two relatively useful procs (the only better combinations are Plasma-Disruptor and Anti-Proton-Disruptor), but unfortunately they aren't fully realized and only come in that single weapon type.
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