I really liked the Hybrid Plasma-Disruptors when leveling up, though I wish they'd add in purple Mk XI and XII full weapon sets to the Omega Reputation store, along with Hybrid Plasma-Phasers.
I really liked the Hybrid Plasma-Disruptors when leveling up, though I wish they'd add in purple Mk XI and XII full weapon sets to the Omega Reputation store, along with Hybrid Plasma-Phasers.
Romulan plasma is better. It's buffed by plasma science consoles, not to mention available in purple XII.
AP as noted above, the crit damage is insane, PLUS, if you equip the obelisk set, you get a 10% bump in damage.
Polaron, (he protonic polaron in particular, gets a 13.1 bump from the Jem set, plus if you have the protonic weapons, you get the separate proc as well
Plasma gets a 7.6% bump from the romulan singularity harness, and plasma fire bonus from embassy consoles. all other weapon types are next to useless.
in two federation classes, you are actually forced to use the worst weapon in the game, the phaser, because the DN has the lance which you want to boost with relays, and the Vesta, to boost the aux cannons. you can even argue the Defiant /Sao Paulo if you insist on using the quad cannon
You need work on your math. That dmgx2 mod doesn't do nearly as much dmg as you think. Cryptic still haven't fixed scaling problem of the dmg modifier. The bigger issue is, AP doesn't get the extra tac console for every 3 science consoles. It adds up to far more dmg than a dozen modifer of any flavor, much less just 2 dmg modifiers. All that is before the awesome disruptor proc, that helps everyone in your team. It translates to far more dmg for the entire team than a bit more crit severity for yourself.
You wont give it up even after i showed you clear and hard evidence a couple of weeks back?
The embassy consoles account for about 1 percent overall damage in the final result. They are literally that bad.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
You wont give it up even after i showed you clear and hard evidence a couple of weeks back?
The embassy consoles account for about 1 percent overall damage in the final result. They are literally that bad.
I don't know where you get your numbers from but I look at the tooltip when equipping and unequiping a mk xii embassy console and its basically worth 1/3 of a tac console, which is even better for plasma since both the energy damage and proc are buffed. Also since my 2 embassy consoles are flow caps they increase my power I get from leech, more weapon overcap, and more aux to power a2b.
Polaron, (he protonic polaron in particular, gets a 13.1 bump from the Jem set, plus if you have the protonic weapons, you get the separate proc as well
Yeah but, then you're stuck with the Jem set.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I don't know where you get your numbers from but I look at the tooltip when equipping and unequiping a mk xii embassy console and its basically worth 1/3 of a tac console, which is even better for plasma since both the energy damage and proc are buffed. Also since my 2 embassy consoles are flow caps they increase my power I get from leech, more weapon overcap, and more aux to power a2b.
I wouldn't bother wondering where he got his fuzzy numbers. It's likely pulled out of somewhere the sun don't shine. All the stf time records since Romulan expansion has been made using Romulan Plasma, not AP. Talk is cheap, reality vindicates your choice.;)
I wouldn't bother wondering where he got his fuzzy numbers. It's likely pulled out of somewhere the sun don't shine. All the stf time records since Romulan expansion has been made using Romulan Plasma, not AP. Talk is cheap, reality vindicates your choice.;)
The real problem with Rommy Plasma is the cost. Each Mk XII weapon costs 28,540 dilithium... and thats a whole lot more expensive than fleet gear.
As you can see here my damage tooltip on my beam arrays state 1,252.7 damage (1002.1 DPS), with the plasma burn proc at 126 damage per tick @ 15 ticks @ 2.5% chance to proc.
Here in screenshot 2 I have equipped an embassy plasma console. Rated value at +9.6 plasma damage.
We list the values of 1.279.1 damage (1023.3 DPS) with a plasma tick of 128.6 damage per tick @ 15 ticks @ 2.5% chance to proc.
Now, let us get into the hard math of what we actually gained...
Raw damage gained.
1279.1 - 1252.7 = 26.4 damage per shot
1279.1/1252.7 = 1.021, approximately a 2 percent increase.
Using the DPS figures.
1023.3 - 1002.1 = 21.2 DPS gained
1023.3/1002.1 = 1.921, approximately a 2 percent increase. The two figures here are in agreement. We can come to the conclusion at this point that a single embassy console gives approximately 2 percent damage increase to plasma weapons.
Lets factor in the plasma burn proc.
128.6 - 126 = 2.6 per tick more. or 1.021 (rounded), the same matching figure as before, a 2 percent increase in plasma burn, but remember its a proc so we have to calculate what its actual DPS would be.
2.5% chance means that it will proc about once every 40 attempts, or in the case of this beam array approximately once every 10 seconds. This means you will have a plasma burn over time active almost constantly, with 1/2 of the time having a double overlap, due to the 5 seconds of the first being doubled up with the second.
so that is 2.6 * 15 * 1.5 = 58.5 more damage spread out over 15 ticks of time, or about 3.9 DPS
Added together we have gained overall 21.2 + 3.9 = 25.1 DPS
Let us review.
Without a plasma console we have a DPS on that weapon of 1002.3 with a plasma burn of 189 DPS under optimal proc conditions. That gives us a raw DPS of 1191.2 DPS.
With a plasma console we have a DPS on that weapon of 1023.3 with a plasma burn of 192.9 DPS under optimal conditions. That gives us a raw DPS of 1216.2
1216.2/1191.2 = 1.021 (just about the same 2.1 percent we have seen in the previous instances)
Conclusion is that the plasma embassy consoles really add about 2.1 percent DPS to your weapons per console. This is actually less than the DMGx2 modifier. and fully one third of a tactical console.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If I had to choose I would go with Disruptor. As posters have already said they are great general purpose weapons. The proc helps everyone out and you don't need to worry about specs or kit to get something out of them.
If we're talking aesthetics I'd go with Tetryon. I love the clean looks of the beams and cannon pulses or bolts or whatever you'd call them. The sound effects are also the best, especially the retro beam overload sound. Used on a Fed cruiser with quantum torps they look very sexy.
If I had to choose I would go with Disruptor. As posters have already said they are great general purpose weapons. The proc helps everyone out and you don't need to worry about specs or kit to get something out of them.
If we're talking aesthetics I'd go with Tetryon. I love the clean looks of the beams and cannon pulses or bolts or whatever you'd call them. The sound effects are also the best, especially the retro beam overload sound. Used on a Fed cruiser with quantum torps they look very sexy.
Phaser's proc gets a bad rep but honestly I find tetryon to be the least useful. It's only useful if your target has shields between you and him, and if he doesn't then the proc is literally useless. At least phaser can disable a random subsystem for a couple of seconds, that could be things like weapons or engines which can prove situationally useful. That puts it slightly ahead of tets, IMO.
On aesthetics though, well, that's a different story.
I still prefer phasers then, but tets have a nice sound effect and the blue beams look really neat. I'd put something like polarons at the bottom of the heap in terms of aesthetics. I don't really like the sound or the look.
So 1.58 per DMG mod making it 3.16% more on a DMGx2 mod. Did you also notice the DMG mod affects the plasma burn proc? vs 2.1 plasma embassy consoles, DMGx2 proofs again.
1023.3/957.6 = 1.0686 or about 6.9% increase. vs 2.1 plasma console, tactical spire consoles are fully three times more and then some, proofed.
Youd be better off with Fleet AP Accx2DMGx2 or DMGx3CritD than even a critDx2 romulan plasma weapon for this very reason. You would have to make up 3.16 or 4.74 percent damage, respectively. Thats 2 or 3 embassy consoles worth of damage in JUST the weapon mods alone. (dont forget, those same embassy consoles ALSO would add a plasma tick to any other damage type, including AP, further increasing the amount of disparity to overcome.)
There is also the issue with the plasma synergy 7.6 bonus not being a real 7.6, and the AP obelisk bonus being a real 10% bonus, but that gets into AMP and power levels math I dont care to get into at the moment.
Final conclusion, a fleet DMGx2 weapon ALWAYS beats a romulan plasma weapon. The DMG mod is not useless, embassy consoles are overrated, and I was right, AP is better than romulan plasma. You can thank Mal Reynolds (The DPS guy) for starting me down this math a few weeks ago, and taking it from there. The guy is brilliant and as the math shows, correct. Oh and for the record, guess what damage type he is using currently?
Thanks, and before you insult me again, Noblet, perhaps youd better take YOUR head out of somewhere. That was both uncalled for and silly.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
So 1.58 per DMG mod making it 3.16% more on a DMGx2 mod. Did you also notice the DMG mod affects the plasma burn proc? vs 2.1 plasma embassy consoles, DMGx2 proofs again.
1023.3/957.6 = 1.0686 or about 6.9% increase. vs 2.1 plasma console, tactical spire consoles are fully three times more and then some, proofed.
Youd be better off with Fleet AP Accx2DMGx2 or DMGx3CritD than even a critDx2 romulan plasma weapon for this very reason. You would have to make up 3.16 or 4.74 percent damage, respectively. Thats 2 or 3 embassy consoles worth of damage in JUST the weapon mods alone. (dont forget, those same embassy consoles ALSO would add a plasma tick to any other damage type, including AP, further increasing the amount of disparity to overcome.)
There is also the issue with the plasma synergy 7.6 bonus not being a real 7.6, and the AP obelisk bonus being a real 10% bonus, but that gets into AMP and power levels math I dont care to get into at the moment.
Final conclusion, a fleet DMGx2 weapon ALWAYS beats a romulan plasma weapon. The DMG mod is not useless, embassy consoles are overrated, and I was right, AP is better than romulan plasma. You can thank Mal Reynolds (The DPS guy) for starting me down this math a few weeks ago, and taking it from there. The guy is brilliant and as the math shows, correct. Oh and for the record, guess what damage type he is using currently?
Thanks, and before you insult me again, Noblet, perhaps youd better take YOUR head out of somewhere. That was both uncalled for and silly.
wtf how did you get those 1200 dmg numbers?:S i have 405 dmg with my proton polaron beam array and i have 4x polaron phase modulator :S
Phaser's proc gets a bad rep but honestly I find tetryon to be the least useful. It's only useful if your target has shields between you and him, and if he doesn't then the proc is literally useless. At least phaser can disable a random subsystem for a couple of seconds, that could be things like weapons or engines which can prove situationally useful. That puts it slightly ahead of tets, IMO.
On aesthetics though, well, that's a different story.
I still prefer phasers then, but tets have a nice sound effect and the blue beams look really neat. I'd put something like polarons at the bottom of the heap in terms of aesthetics. I don't really like the sound or the look.
Alas...if only they worked as good as they looked, I'd never bother using anything else...
Agreed on the Polaron though, since playing around with them and the Jem set they have grown on me a little - but they still look like you're firing a water pistol filled with blackcurrant juice.
125 weapon power now it says 960 for beam array and 1200 for dual beam.
so what is better weapon choice...romulan plasma or protonic polaron?
i am flying tac vesta(aventine).
Romplas is the better of the two, but the protonic polaron MIGHT be on par if you have the lobi version of the jem hadar set.
Also, situationally, protonic polaron boosted by dyson rep pieces and some of the solanae stuff coming down the pipe may very well surpass any other dual proc type weapons in terms of actual DPS output. It would however make the ship very squishy in terms of defense, and would rely wholly on proc chances to deal its maximum damage.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
This is what I said earlier, that's why I figure its worth it because I can usually use with 2 or 3 embassy consoles the 2 pc set bonus so its like having a extra tac console.
There is also the issue with the plasma synergy 7.6 bonus not being a real 7.6, and the AP obelisk bonus being a real 10% bonus, but that gets into AMP and power levels math I dont care to get into at the moment.
.
when you have the chance I would like to know more about how the 7.6% is not real, thanks.
This is what I said earlier, that's why I figure its worth it because I can usually use with 2 or 3 embassy consoles the 2 pc set bonus so its like having a extra tac console.
when you have the chance I would like to know more about how the 7.6% is not real, thanks.
It works the same way as the embassy 9.6%, whereas the AP bonus works like the Omega buff.
its the whole base damage before weapons power, and final multiplier after weapons power issue.
I shouldnt need to get into the math for you to see why I refer to it as "not a real x"
On the tooltip, AP set will literally raise your damage 10%
Zeropoint/ExperimentalBeam synergy will only raise it about 1.5% or so.
AMP mods have the same problem. Its 3.3 percent of base damage, not a flat 3.3% at the end of the calculation.
So in terms of the set bonuses, it comes down to 4 amp mods at about 1.2 each with a fleet warp core, plus 1.5 from plasma, which comes out to just a shade under 7%
or
the AP set with a little less engine or shield power, and a flat 10 percent bonus
in that regards they are fairly balanced, but the Ap set bonus is actually higher on its own than even 4 amp mods and the plasma set. (or any set for that matter except polarons and the 13.2 bonus from the lobi 3 piece)
Its probably a good thing Scimitars/warbirds cant use the obelisk warp core. Could you imagine them having ANOTHER 3-5 percent damage boost?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
With crit rates as high as they are, Antiproton is now the king of all the damage types, bar none.
You simply cannot beat out +20critD with a 20+ percent chance vs a 2.5 percent chance for "something" to happen.
Oh yeah, one last thought. I am well aware any weapon type with one critD mod has the same bonus as an AP weapon, but its now a three mod vs a four mod (in the case of fleet APs), so you lose a whole mod to gain the CritD bonus.
Reading that quote and the math of the other posts in this thread are incorrect. As regards your 1st sentence it's actually the opposite.
So I went in space to check my weapon stats via weapon tooltray tooltips. Here's what it shows. Note for plasma I am using the +7.6% from the 2 piece rom set.
Ships stats
acc=25%
crit hit=19.3%
crit severity=102%
energy weapon specialization at 99 points
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=127%
Targets defense at -15%
Experimental Rom Beam [critH]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=30.88%
adjusted crit sev=141.28%
Crit hit damage=3,040
Average damage=1,810
Rom beam [critD]x2=1253.7 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=181.28%
Crit hit damage=3,526
Average damage=1,819
Plasma beam[crtD]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=201.28%
Crit hit damage=3,796
Average damage=1,891
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x2[acc]x2=1272.2 via tooltray
to hit=137.50%
adjusted crit hit=25.99%
adjusted crit sev=185.75%
Crit hit damage=3,381
Average damage=1,820
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x3[crtD]x1=1284.6 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=181.28%
Crit hit damage=3,613
Average damage=1,864
Now as we've proven acc overflow does NOT work with FAW. So how does damage look when factoring in this. I'll use the same damage as previously. It doesn't matter if FAW3 does +30% or +10% or whatever as it will still come out the same. Just makes it easier for me.
Experimental Rom Beam [critH]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=27.3%
adjusted crit sev=127%
Crit hit damage=2,860
Average damage=1,697
Rom beam [critD]x2=1253.7 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=167%
Crit hit damage=3,347
Average damage=1,700
Plasma beam[crtD]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=187%
Crit hit damage=3,616
Average damage=1,762
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x2[acc]x2=1272.2 via tooltray
to hit=137.50%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=147%
Crit hit damage=3,142
Average damage=1,671
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x3[crtD]x1=1284.6 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=167%
Crit hit damage=3,430
Average damage=1,742
Note I did not include the Disruptor proc for either the Experimental Rom beam nor the Rom beams. Note I also did not include plasma fire. Nor did I include using Embassy sci consoles for increased plasma damage. Also note that if you used Nukara particle converter for the extra acc overflow that this will only help during autofiring. And as to hit has a DR which effects acc overflow it's more helpful for the weapons that do not already have acc as the DR is less. And let's not forget that the Experimental Rom Beam uses no weapon power. And that wasn't factored into the equations either.
Reading that quote and the math of the other posts in this thread are incorrect. As regards your 1st sentence it's actually the opposite.
So I went in space to check my weapon stats via weapon tooltray tooltips. Here's what it shows. Note for plasma I am using the +7.6% from the 2 piece rom set.
Ships stats
acc=25%
crit hit=19.3%
crit severity=102%
energy weapon specialization at 99 points
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=127%
Targets defense at -15%
Experimental Rom Beam [critH]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=30.88%
adjusted crit sev=141.28%
Crit hit damage=3,040
Average damage=1,810
Rom beam [critD]x2=1253.7 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=181.28%
Crit hit damage=3,526
Average damage=1,819
Plasma beam[crtD]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=201.28%
Crit hit damage=3,796
Average damage=1,891
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x2[acc]x2=1272.2 via tooltray
to hit=137.50%
adjusted crit hit=25.99%
adjusted crit sev=185.75%
Crit hit damage=3,381
Average damage=1,820
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x3[crtD]x1=1284.6 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=181.28%
Crit hit damage=3,613
Average damage=1,864
Now as we've proven acc overflow does NOT work with FAW. So how does damage look when factoring in this. I'll use the same damage as previously. It doesn't matter if FAW3 does +30% or +10% or whatever as it will still come out the same. Just makes it easier for me.
Experimental Rom Beam [critH]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=27.3%
adjusted crit sev=127%
Crit hit damage=2,860
Average damage=1,697
Rom beam [critD]x2=1253.7 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=167%
Crit hit damage=3,347
Average damage=1,700
Plasma beam[crtD]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=187%
Crit hit damage=3,616
Average damage=1,762
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x2[acc]x2=1272.2 via tooltray
to hit=137.50%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=147%
Crit hit damage=3,142
Average damage=1,671
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x3[crtD]x1=1284.6 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=167%
Crit hit damage=3,430
Average damage=1,742
Note I did not include the Disruptor proc for either the Experimental Rom beam nor the Rom beams. Note I also did not include plasma fire. Nor did I include using Embassy sci consoles for increased plasma damage. Also note that if you used Nukara particle converter for the extra acc overflow that this will only help during autofiring. And as to hit has a DR which effects acc overflow it's more helpful for the weapons that do not already have acc as the DR is less.
Screenshots, because it is impossible for a non DMG modded weapon to have a higher base damage than a DMGx2 of the same mark.
Your numbers are inaccurate, I will require screenshots to prove your statement, as I have provided in my posting. Sorry but looking at the raw data presented it almost looks like you added 100 to each weapon purposely in an attempt to falsely discredit me.
Additionally, critical damage is not calculated in the tooltip and never has been, where are you getting this number?
Proof required.
One last point - Acc overflow does work correctly on normal attacks, check your numbers there and see how you do. FAW has been stated to be broken on this fact for a while so I cannot accept an argument about overflow until we have seen decisive evidence the devs are not going to be fixing this piece from the last one. They had it working once.
Youve cherry picked one specific power and tried to use a bug (as stated by borticus) to justify a position that does not hold water outside of its own narrow scope. ACC overflow will be fixed one day, what then?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Where do you see any numbers which suggest the weapons with the dmg mod are not higher then the weapons without the dmg mod??? Reread what I wrote. Both weapons with DMGx2 and DMGx3 clearly show as having a higher damage value. And my numbers are 100% correct.
Again if you actually read what I wrote acc overflow is included for autofiring in part a. It's disregarded for FAW in part b.
Also I've been playing for over a year now. Acc overflow has not worked during that time. People just assumed it was. I don't believe it ever has worked as it's never been coded into it. But I could be wrong there. And who cares about what ifs? It hasn't been fixed yet. We'll worry about that when the time comes.
I'm here to educate not discredit.
For the base damage before factoring in weapon power, etc, or whatever I show the following. Got this while on the ground.
Experimental Rom Beam=227.9
Rom Beam=225.4
Plasma Beam=227.9
Adv Fleet AntiProton [dmg]x2=240.4
Adv Fleet AntiProton [dmg]x3=245.4
Also an elite phaser beam with [dmg]x1=235.4
I also tried 2 +10% damage abilities. EPTW1 and a battery via Exocomp doff. Interestingly the lower base damage weapons gained more then the higher base damage weapons. I'm not sure why it worked this way. It'a fairly minor. But for tac and ambush it may have an impact. Here's what I showed.
Yes it's very minor. Just another anomaly that will have a tiny impact to tacs with APO, ambush etc, etc, stacking.
Oh and let me mention something real quick. Using the battery and then the EPTW cancelled the battery. I never noticed this before. I must remember to use EPTW prior to using a battery from now on.
I am going to agree with rylana and say Antiproton is the DMG type king. I know a lot of people love the disruptor proc and it is nice. working as a team it can put out some high numbers, but only when more than on person is shooting. AP on the other hand is boosting its own DPS through crits and on a high criting rom, you can be criting one out of 4 to 5 shots...... That is far more the the disruptor proc is going to give you. Sure if EVERYONE on a team is using disruptors, that proc is putting out some good numbers bu tif EVERYONE is using AP.....my god....
And if they are all high criting roms......TRIBBLE.....
I have one of the new ADSD and i have AP on it. I havent seen an ADSD puting out as much DPS as mine. Im not saying one isnt out there, I have just not seen it and out of all the ones a have seen, none out DPS mine.... (Im rather proud of that....) Accx2 DMGx2.....with vulnerability locators....four of them. Without the any superior trait boffs i still have over 19% crit chance...using AP.... My DPS was lower in my disprutor scimmie and my disruptor arkif.
I am going to agree with rylana and say Antiproton is the DMG type king. I know a lot of people love the disruptor proc and it is nice. working as a team it can put out some high numbers, but only when more than on person is shooting. AP on the other hand is boosting its own DPS through crits and on a high criting rom, you can be criting one out of 4 to 5 shots...... That is far more the the disruptor proc is going to give you. Sure if EVERYONE on a team is using disruptors, that proc is putting out some good numbers bu tif EVERYONE is using AP.....my god....
And if they are all high criting roms......TRIBBLE.....
I have one of the new ADSD and i have AP on it. I havent seen an ADSD puting out as much DPS as mine. Im not saying one isnt out there, I have just not seen it and out of all the ones a have seen, none out DPS mine.... (Im rather proud of that....) Accx2 DMGx2.....with vulnerability locators....four of them. Without the any superior trait boffs i still have over 19% crit chance...using AP.... My DPS was lower in my disprutor scimmie and my disruptor arkif.
Antiproton ALL THE WAY.
An estf run with everyone using AP gets a quarter longer runtime than one where everyone uses romulan plasma. The current records for stf runtimes are on romulan plasma. It's been tested to death, google it.
If it's solo, you're good with ap. But "if everyone uses ap... my god" is a lol thing to say, unless you meant how poorly it would perform compared to romulan plasma.
Bottom line - AP for solo. Romulan plasma for team.
Considering i usually am alone most of the time, AP works. when i DO have a team, i know i can pull my own wieght. Also, i wonder why the records are met with rom/plasma.....could it be the DoT proc? the disruptor proc? or both working together?
Besides, if Rom/Plasma is SO OP, then why are people using it in PVP? I know PVE builds are different than PVP builds but i like things that can deliver damage NOW, vs. damage over time. Spike the target, kill it and more on to the next. Rom/plasma means nothing to me if the damage being done is healed as fast as it comes in......
Maybe i am thinking with more of a PVP mindset....
Considering i usually am alone most of the time, AP works. when i DO have a team, i know i can pull my own wieght. Also, i wonder why the records are met with rom/plasma.....could it be the DoT proc? the disruptor proc? or both working together?
Besides, if Rom/Plasma is SO OP, then why are people using it in PVP? I know PVE builds are different than PVP builds but i like things that can deliver damage NOW, vs. damage over time. Spike the target, kill it and more on to the next. Rom/plasma means nothing to me if the damage being done is healed as fast as it comes in......
Maybe i am thinking with more of a PVP mindset....
It's not the plasma burn proc, although plasma burn does match borg hull better than any other npcs. It has to do with disruptor proc, plus plasma damage type being buffed by a relatively large number of things. You get basically one free extra tac console for every 3 plasma infused science consoles. Then there's the bonus from 2 piece romulan set (beam plus console) that doesn't deviate from optimal broadside scimitar fit used, making it free damage.
You need to realize what AP really is. It's 20% extra crit severity, at the expense of having no proc. While Romulan plasma has 2 procs, each can stack 8 times. With 5 people, 8 beams each, they will proc, and procs will stack. These records are all made on Romulan toons with romulan boffs in beam broadside scimitars, they already have both crit severity and crit chance pumped so high that an extra 20% crit severity is a tiny insignificant fraction of what they already have. Now remember that plasma dmg type gets the bonus to base damage from different sources mentioned earlier. Crit dmg is based on base dmg, higher base dmg also brings up crit dmg. This all makes Romulan plasma and ap almost the same in term of crit, but very different in term of debuff.
PvE anything goes elites are a joke gone are the days when you needed to work as teams, most of the time you can just dps yourself out of any trouble.
Ive got ships with tet, rom plasma, antiproton, polaron etc etc, they all kill npcs very fast, I now choose them simply for the looks.......
PvP is a different matter, each few months a new build item set etc pushes to the top, once disruptors ruled, then antiproton, many moons ago even phaser had a place. This is where you need to get the extra 1% this is where you have to use a specific weapon set and that's why I'm not much help with PVP builds mine are all from 2 years ago, the fun lost out to premades or simply not liking the ship looks build but having to use because it was the most efficient.
Just remember if it looks cool that's good enough.......
Where ever you go, there you are.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
Comments
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Romulan plasma is better. It's buffed by plasma science consoles, not to mention available in purple XII.
AP as noted above, the crit damage is insane, PLUS, if you equip the obelisk set, you get a 10% bump in damage.
Polaron, (he protonic polaron in particular, gets a 13.1 bump from the Jem set, plus if you have the protonic weapons, you get the separate proc as well
Plasma gets a 7.6% bump from the romulan singularity harness, and plasma fire bonus from embassy consoles. all other weapon types are next to useless.
in two federation classes, you are actually forced to use the worst weapon in the game, the phaser, because the DN has the lance which you want to boost with relays, and the Vesta, to boost the aux cannons. you can even argue the Defiant /Sao Paulo if you insist on using the quad cannon
Just for the info of others, I do about 10-15k dps with my tetryons with a fed sci captain and a full Nukara'd Odyssey cruiser...
I also wish that there were some of these weapons that could be traded from toon to toon.
CM
You wont give it up even after i showed you clear and hard evidence a couple of weeks back?
The embassy consoles account for about 1 percent overall damage in the final result. They are literally that bad.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I don't know where you get your numbers from but I look at the tooltip when equipping and unequiping a mk xii embassy console and its basically worth 1/3 of a tac console, which is even better for plasma since both the energy damage and proc are buffed. Also since my 2 embassy consoles are flow caps they increase my power I get from leech, more weapon overcap, and more aux to power a2b.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I wouldn't bother wondering where he got his fuzzy numbers. It's likely pulled out of somewhere the sun don't shine. All the stf time records since Romulan expansion has been made using Romulan Plasma, not AP. Talk is cheap, reality vindicates your choice.;)
The real problem with Rommy Plasma is the cost. Each Mk XII weapon costs 28,540 dilithium... and thats a whole lot more expensive than fleet gear.
Hard numbers time. I will update this post as I take screens and show you flat out in your face the reality.
*shakes head* You guys really are something. I never say things I have not tested thoroughly.
First Screenshot. My testbed Fleet Mogh on the KDF side running romplas critHx2 (like I said, its a testbed)
http://i.imgur.com/CmoYArd.jpg
As you can see here my damage tooltip on my beam arrays state 1,252.7 damage (1002.1 DPS), with the plasma burn proc at 126 damage per tick @ 15 ticks @ 2.5% chance to proc.
http://i.imgur.com/HwAbjJU.jpg
Here in screenshot 2 I have equipped an embassy plasma console. Rated value at +9.6 plasma damage.
We list the values of 1.279.1 damage (1023.3 DPS) with a plasma tick of 128.6 damage per tick @ 15 ticks @ 2.5% chance to proc.
Now, let us get into the hard math of what we actually gained...
Raw damage gained.
1279.1 - 1252.7 = 26.4 damage per shot
1279.1/1252.7 = 1.021, approximately a 2 percent increase.
Using the DPS figures.
1023.3 - 1002.1 = 21.2 DPS gained
1023.3/1002.1 = 1.921, approximately a 2 percent increase. The two figures here are in agreement. We can come to the conclusion at this point that a single embassy console gives approximately 2 percent damage increase to plasma weapons.
Lets factor in the plasma burn proc.
128.6 - 126 = 2.6 per tick more. or 1.021 (rounded), the same matching figure as before, a 2 percent increase in plasma burn, but remember its a proc so we have to calculate what its actual DPS would be.
2.5% chance means that it will proc about once every 40 attempts, or in the case of this beam array approximately once every 10 seconds. This means you will have a plasma burn over time active almost constantly, with 1/2 of the time having a double overlap, due to the 5 seconds of the first being doubled up with the second.
so that is 2.6 * 15 * 1.5 = 58.5 more damage spread out over 15 ticks of time, or about 3.9 DPS
Added together we have gained overall 21.2 + 3.9 = 25.1 DPS
Let us review.
Without a plasma console we have a DPS on that weapon of 1002.3 with a plasma burn of 189 DPS under optimal proc conditions. That gives us a raw DPS of 1191.2 DPS.
With a plasma console we have a DPS on that weapon of 1023.3 with a plasma burn of 192.9 DPS under optimal conditions. That gives us a raw DPS of 1216.2
1216.2/1191.2 = 1.021 (just about the same 2.1 percent we have seen in the previous instances)
Conclusion is that the plasma embassy consoles really add about 2.1 percent DPS to your weapons per console. This is actually less than the DMGx2 modifier. and fully one third of a tactical console.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If we're talking aesthetics I'd go with Tetryon. I love the clean looks of the beams and cannon pulses or bolts or whatever you'd call them. The sound effects are also the best, especially the retro beam overload sound. Used on a Fed cruiser with quantum torps they look very sexy.
On aesthetics though, well, that's a different story.
I still prefer phasers then, but tets have a nice sound effect and the blue beams look really neat. I'd put something like polarons at the bottom of the heap in terms of aesthetics. I don't really like the sound or the look.
Items used
- The same ship and loadout, no changes otherwise.
- A white mk xi beam array
- A green mk xi [DMG] beam array
Test 1
First screenshot shows the tooltip of the white beam array http://i.imgur.com/sKid7ft.jpg
Second screenshot shows the tooltip of the green beam array http://i.imgur.com/KxiWugX.jpg
986.5/971.1 = 1.015858
So 1.58 per DMG mod making it 3.16% more on a DMGx2 mod. Did you also notice the DMG mod affects the plasma burn proc? vs 2.1 plasma embassy consoles, DMGx2 proofs again.
Test 2
First screenshot shows the tooltip of the weapon http://i.imgur.com/4XvifLp.jpg
Second screenshot shows the tooltip of the weapon with +1 31.9 spire console http://i.imgur.com/vWjOyfu.jpg
1023.3/957.6 = 1.0686 or about 6.9% increase. vs 2.1 plasma console, tactical spire consoles are fully three times more and then some, proofed.
Youd be better off with Fleet AP Accx2DMGx2 or DMGx3CritD than even a critDx2 romulan plasma weapon for this very reason. You would have to make up 3.16 or 4.74 percent damage, respectively. Thats 2 or 3 embassy consoles worth of damage in JUST the weapon mods alone. (dont forget, those same embassy consoles ALSO would add a plasma tick to any other damage type, including AP, further increasing the amount of disparity to overcome.)
There is also the issue with the plasma synergy 7.6 bonus not being a real 7.6, and the AP obelisk bonus being a real 10% bonus, but that gets into AMP and power levels math I dont care to get into at the moment.
Final conclusion, a fleet DMGx2 weapon ALWAYS beats a romulan plasma weapon. The DMG mod is not useless, embassy consoles are overrated, and I was right, AP is better than romulan plasma. You can thank Mal Reynolds (The DPS guy) for starting me down this math a few weeks ago, and taking it from there. The guy is brilliant and as the math shows, correct. Oh and for the record, guess what damage type he is using currently?
Thanks, and before you insult me again, Noblet, perhaps youd better take YOUR head out of somewhere. That was both uncalled for and silly.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
wtf how did you get those 1200 dmg numbers?:S i have 405 dmg with my proton polaron beam array
What is your weapon power setting? (also make sure youre in orbit space, not on the ground or sectorspace)
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Alas...if only they worked as good as they looked, I'd never bother using anything else...
Agreed on the Polaron though, since playing around with them and the Jem set they have grown on me a little - but they still look like you're firing a water pistol filled with blackcurrant juice.
125 weapon power now it says 960 for beam array and 1200 for dual beam.
so what is better weapon choice...romulan plasma or protonic polaron?
i am flying tac vesta(aventine).
Romplas is the better of the two, but the protonic polaron MIGHT be on par if you have the lobi version of the jem hadar set.
Also, situationally, protonic polaron boosted by dyson rep pieces and some of the solanae stuff coming down the pipe may very well surpass any other dual proc type weapons in terms of actual DPS output. It would however make the ship very squishy in terms of defense, and would rely wholly on proc chances to deal its maximum damage.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
This is what I said earlier, that's why I figure its worth it because I can usually use with 2 or 3 embassy consoles the 2 pc set bonus so its like having a extra tac console.
when you have the chance I would like to know more about how the 7.6% is not real, thanks.
It works the same way as the embassy 9.6%, whereas the AP bonus works like the Omega buff.
its the whole base damage before weapons power, and final multiplier after weapons power issue.
I shouldnt need to get into the math for you to see why I refer to it as "not a real x"
On the tooltip, AP set will literally raise your damage 10%
Zeropoint/ExperimentalBeam synergy will only raise it about 1.5% or so.
AMP mods have the same problem. Its 3.3 percent of base damage, not a flat 3.3% at the end of the calculation.
So in terms of the set bonuses, it comes down to 4 amp mods at about 1.2 each with a fleet warp core, plus 1.5 from plasma, which comes out to just a shade under 7%
or
the AP set with a little less engine or shield power, and a flat 10 percent bonus
in that regards they are fairly balanced, but the Ap set bonus is actually higher on its own than even 4 amp mods and the plasma set. (or any set for that matter except polarons and the 13.2 bonus from the lobi 3 piece)
Its probably a good thing Scimitars/warbirds cant use the obelisk warp core. Could you imagine them having ANOTHER 3-5 percent damage boost?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Looks like Disruptors are the king of the hill these days, with Antiproton and Polaron closely behind, and Plasma a bit behind those.
Hmmm...
Reading that quote and the math of the other posts in this thread are incorrect. As regards your 1st sentence it's actually the opposite.
So I went in space to check my weapon stats via weapon tooltray tooltips. Here's what it shows. Note for plasma I am using the +7.6% from the 2 piece rom set.
Ships stats
acc=25%
crit hit=19.3%
crit severity=102%
energy weapon specialization at 99 points
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=127%
Targets defense at -15%
Experimental Rom Beam [critH]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=30.88%
adjusted crit sev=141.28%
Crit hit damage=3,040
Average damage=1,810
Rom beam [critD]x2=1253.7 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=181.28%
Crit hit damage=3,526
Average damage=1,819
Plasma beam[crtD]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=201.28%
Crit hit damage=3,796
Average damage=1,891
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x2[acc]x2=1272.2 via tooltray
to hit=137.50%
adjusted crit hit=25.99%
adjusted crit sev=185.75%
Crit hit damage=3,381
Average damage=1,820
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x3[crtD]x1=1284.6 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=24.88%
adjusted crit sev=181.28%
Crit hit damage=3,613
Average damage=1,864
Now as we've proven acc overflow does NOT work with FAW. So how does damage look when factoring in this. I'll use the same damage as previously. It doesn't matter if FAW3 does +30% or +10% or whatever as it will still come out the same. Just makes it easier for me.
Experimental Rom Beam [critH]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=27.3%
adjusted crit sev=127%
Crit hit damage=2,860
Average damage=1,697
Rom beam [critD]x2=1253.7 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=167%
Crit hit damage=3,347
Average damage=1,700
Plasma beam[crtD]x3=1259.9 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=187%
Crit hit damage=3,616
Average damage=1,762
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x2[acc]x2=1272.2 via tooltray
to hit=137.50%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=147%
Crit hit damage=3,142
Average damage=1,671
Adv Fleet AntiProton beam [dmg]x3[crtD]x1=1284.6 via tooltray
to hit=128.57%
adjusted crit hit=21.3%
adjusted crit sev=167%
Crit hit damage=3,430
Average damage=1,742
Note I did not include the Disruptor proc for either the Experimental Rom beam nor the Rom beams. Note I also did not include plasma fire. Nor did I include using Embassy sci consoles for increased plasma damage. Also note that if you used Nukara particle converter for the extra acc overflow that this will only help during autofiring. And as to hit has a DR which effects acc overflow it's more helpful for the weapons that do not already have acc as the DR is less. And let's not forget that the Experimental Rom Beam uses no weapon power. And that wasn't factored into the equations either.
Screenshots, because it is impossible for a non DMG modded weapon to have a higher base damage than a DMGx2 of the same mark.
Your numbers are inaccurate, I will require screenshots to prove your statement, as I have provided in my posting. Sorry but looking at the raw data presented it almost looks like you added 100 to each weapon purposely in an attempt to falsely discredit me.
Additionally, critical damage is not calculated in the tooltip and never has been, where are you getting this number?
Proof required.
One last point - Acc overflow does work correctly on normal attacks, check your numbers there and see how you do. FAW has been stated to be broken on this fact for a while so I cannot accept an argument about overflow until we have seen decisive evidence the devs are not going to be fixing this piece from the last one. They had it working once.
Youve cherry picked one specific power and tried to use a bug (as stated by borticus) to justify a position that does not hold water outside of its own narrow scope. ACC overflow will be fixed one day, what then?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If you want to figure out the damage and how it was obtained ie crit and crit sev. crit hit damage and average damage then use my calculator and input the numbers yourself. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgEhF6YV_JYQdFZNQ0hZV3AtT0ZYeFA2LTNVdlcyMkE&usp=sharing#gid=0
Again if you actually read what I wrote acc overflow is included for autofiring in part a. It's disregarded for FAW in part b.
Also I've been playing for over a year now. Acc overflow has not worked during that time. People just assumed it was. I don't believe it ever has worked as it's never been coded into it. But I could be wrong there. And who cares about what ifs? It hasn't been fixed yet. We'll worry about that when the time comes.
I'm here to educate not discredit.
For the base damage before factoring in weapon power, etc, or whatever I show the following. Got this while on the ground.
Experimental Rom Beam=227.9
Rom Beam=225.4
Plasma Beam=227.9
Adv Fleet AntiProton [dmg]x2=240.4
Adv Fleet AntiProton [dmg]x3=245.4
Also an elite phaser beam with [dmg]x1=235.4
I also tried 2 +10% damage abilities. EPTW1 and a battery via Exocomp doff. Interestingly the lower base damage weapons gained more then the higher base damage weapons. I'm not sure why it worked this way. It'a fairly minor. But for tac and ambush it may have an impact. Here's what I showed.
Rom beam [crtD]x2 gained 16.77% damage
Adv Fleet Antiproton beam [dmg]x2 gained 16.66%
Adv Fleet Antiproton beam [dmg]x3 gained 16.60%
Yes it's very minor. Just another anomaly that will have a tiny impact to tacs with APO, ambush etc, etc, stacking.
Oh and let me mention something real quick. Using the battery and then the EPTW cancelled the battery. I never noticed this before. I must remember to use EPTW prior to using a battery from now on.
And if they are all high criting roms......TRIBBLE.....
I have one of the new ADSD and i have AP on it. I havent seen an ADSD puting out as much DPS as mine. Im not saying one isnt out there, I have just not seen it and out of all the ones a have seen, none out DPS mine.... (Im rather proud of that....) Accx2 DMGx2.....with vulnerability locators....four of them. Without the any superior trait boffs i still have over 19% crit chance...using AP.... My DPS was lower in my disprutor scimmie and my disruptor arkif.
Antiproton ALL THE WAY.
An estf run with everyone using AP gets a quarter longer runtime than one where everyone uses romulan plasma. The current records for stf runtimes are on romulan plasma. It's been tested to death, google it.
If it's solo, you're good with ap. But "if everyone uses ap... my god" is a lol thing to say, unless you meant how poorly it would perform compared to romulan plasma.
Bottom line - AP for solo. Romulan plasma for team.
Besides, if Rom/Plasma is SO OP, then why are people using it in PVP? I know PVE builds are different than PVP builds but i like things that can deliver damage NOW, vs. damage over time. Spike the target, kill it and more on to the next. Rom/plasma means nothing to me if the damage being done is healed as fast as it comes in......
Maybe i am thinking with more of a PVP mindset....
It's not the plasma burn proc, although plasma burn does match borg hull better than any other npcs. It has to do with disruptor proc, plus plasma damage type being buffed by a relatively large number of things. You get basically one free extra tac console for every 3 plasma infused science consoles. Then there's the bonus from 2 piece romulan set (beam plus console) that doesn't deviate from optimal broadside scimitar fit used, making it free damage.
You need to realize what AP really is. It's 20% extra crit severity, at the expense of having no proc. While Romulan plasma has 2 procs, each can stack 8 times. With 5 people, 8 beams each, they will proc, and procs will stack. These records are all made on Romulan toons with romulan boffs in beam broadside scimitars, they already have both crit severity and crit chance pumped so high that an extra 20% crit severity is a tiny insignificant fraction of what they already have. Now remember that plasma dmg type gets the bonus to base damage from different sources mentioned earlier. Crit dmg is based on base dmg, higher base dmg also brings up crit dmg. This all makes Romulan plasma and ap almost the same in term of crit, but very different in term of debuff.
PvE anything goes elites are a joke gone are the days when you needed to work as teams, most of the time you can just dps yourself out of any trouble.
Ive got ships with tet, rom plasma, antiproton, polaron etc etc, they all kill npcs very fast, I now choose them simply for the looks.......
PvP is a different matter, each few months a new build item set etc pushes to the top, once disruptors ruled, then antiproton, many moons ago even phaser had a place. This is where you need to get the extra 1% this is where you have to use a specific weapon set and that's why I'm not much help with PVP builds mine are all from 2 years ago, the fun lost out to premades or simply not liking the ship looks build but having to use because it was the most efficient.
Just remember if it looks cool that's good enough.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.