I had proposed way back when the ESD was swapped that the old ESD should be used in Gamma Orianis for Omega Command. They could replace all those ships floating by the gate with a single structure. Have a couple of ships from each faction orbiting and patrolling the aera.
I've been advocating rebuilding ESD's interior forever. You will hear no argument from me.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
There are a few glimpses of the observation deck as the Ent limps home, and a couple of other random rooms, but it's very random and incoherent.
Pleas forget ESD and focus on a canon DS9 interior (I couldn't care less about exterior scaling)
The Belfast, TOS, Scimitar, and Andorian bridges were canon perfect, DS9 needs that love and attention.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
they need to fix the scaling sizes of everything in the game, and/or give us Utopia Planitia Ship Yards as the place where you get your ship... which is where most Captains do get their ships. Enterprise D launched from Utopia Planitia, The Defiant launched from Utopia Planitia, and Voyager launched from Utopia Planitia. The ones in ESD are there for Repairs/Decommission or undergoing a test of some sort, why we saw the Excelsior in Star Trek 3.
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
I've been advocating rebuilding ESD's interior forever. You will hear no argument from me.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
There are a few glimpses of the observation deck as the Ent limps home, and a couple of other random rooms, but it's very random and incoherent.
One thing I would suggest doing is clarifying the civilian/military presence.
It's always been fuzzy on Trek. I think they tried playing the Promenade as being somewhat unique on DS9 but then on the Enterprise, Guinan runs Ten Forward, Mot runs the barbershop, and there are school classrooms. People discuss themed restaurants and bars on Federation facilities.
I think Thomas, when he created ESD's signage, had a nice analogy when he mentioned airports. I think it is one part airport and with the number of people we have running around out of uniform, it would look better clarified as at least partly a civilian installation.
I think the Army PX, Navy NEX, and Air Force BX are also good examples. They have Burger King's and whatnot.
I think it would be nice, functionally, to have a tailorshop/clothing store that actually looks somewhat like a clothing store with mannequins displaying uniforms. It would also be nice to have both an uptempo and a down tempo social location. I like the idea of a dancefloor/rave as uptempo but I think you'd make a lot of people happy if you had a little Sisko's Restaurant or Vic's or something where extinguishers and devices are disabled and you'd make Zinc happy if just the tables in that one bar couldn't be jumped on, I think.
One thing I would suggest doing is clarifying the civilian/military presence.
It's always been fuzzy on Trek. I think they tried playing the Promenade as being somewhat unique on DS9 but then on the Enterprise, Guinan runs Ten Forward, Mot runs the barbershop, and there are school classrooms. People discuss themed restaurants and bars on Federation facilities.
I think Thomas, when he created ESD's signage, had a nice analogy when he mentioned airports. I think it is one part airport and with the number of people we have running around out of uniform, it would look better clarified as at least partly a civilian installation.
I think the Army PX, Navy NEX, and Air Force BX are also good examples. They have Burger King's and whatnot.
I think thats quite a good idea, I personally like the idea of adding more Decks to the Interior, Well my suggestion would be to have an open to civilians Commerce section of the base with areas designed for social stuff like Club 47, as well as the tailor , And then on a different deck have a Starfleet only deck, with Armory's, shipyard facilities etc
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
One thing I would suggest doing is clarifying the civilian/military presence.
It's always been fuzzy on Trek. I think they tried playing the Promenade as being somewhat unique on DS9 but then on the Enterprise, Guinan runs Ten Forward, Mot runs the barbershop, and there are school classrooms. People discuss themed restaurants and bars on Federation facilities.
I much prefer the current ESD as it appeared in the movies and TV shows.
The old ESD that was created by the Cryptic team would - as previously mentioned - make a cool starbase to put out near one of the borders near another faction.
In fact, if we ever have access to the Gamma Quadrant - maybe with the addition of a Cardassian/True Way/Dominion faction - then I would LOVE to see the old ESD model used as the main Federation starbase/shipyard in the Gamma Quadrant.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
I think it's pretty well established, that we know virtually nothing of what ESD should look like inside. Which means that you could essentially design ESD any way you want. The current ESD isn't "bad", but it's a bit cumbersome to move around. Making the place easier to navigate, use the turbolift more frequently would be a move in the right direction (if it can be done without a loading screen).
No. . . it's bad. I'd be all over a rebuild if it happens. :::crosses taquitos:::
I'm not quite sure what's so bad with it right now. It's color coded, there are labels and written signs on the walls, and you can cut across the middle to get from one section to the next if it's not adjacent.
No, it's bad. Yes, everything is accessible, and yes, everything has signs pointing to it, but it's still very confusing. The fact that it's a full loop actually makes it more confusing than if it were just a big arc. I also hate that it's supposed to be in that giant dome park that Phoenix pointed out, but the whole thing is only 400' across instead of the 3000' across that dome is supposed to be. That makes the whole place feel incredibly fake to me. And art is dated and ugly. Doesn't represent 2409 very well. If we ever redo it, I will push hard to make sure that the new interior is the size it should be for where ever in the station it's supposed to be placed.
I went on there to look at the old ESD interior... it was really drab. I do miss the upstairs ship area that used to be in it but I like the new shipyard view better. The only thing I don't care for much is the color-coded signage around the current ESD. Would look better if it had a more "trek" appearance. I liked the old ESD signage better than the new ones but even those could have used in update.
Signage in general is an issue. Those signs never felt right. We tried to touch them up a little, but they're still pretty bad. Signs need to stand out, and be noticeable, but they also need to feel like they belong to the space they are in.
Yup, I think I even have a copy of the print version somewhere around here. . .
Ya, that park would be pretty cool, but would probably be too much work, and too much essentially unused space for a hub.
You say that the park would be too much unused space, but then I see the in-game "Sovereign" bridge football stadiums...
I think you could make it in several "levels":
Level 1 (top): Spacedock
this level holds everything to do with ships. Ship components, Ship vendors, Ship selection, Ship customization, Engineer (repairs)
I see this being built as the center triple-pronged column in the middle of the mushroom cap with windows looking out toward the large bay doors
Ideally, if I could have my way with this level, there would be a door to a personal instance that shows the player's ship docked outside. This instance could work like the player bridges, where players can invite people into their instance to see the instance owner's ship. (Good for launching ceremonies/receptions)
Level 2: Administrative level
this holds most of the "starfleet" NPCs and functions, and where most of the "work" is done. Admiral Promotes-anyone-with-a-pulse, Personnel, Sickbay, Security Doff Assignments, Mission Difficulty Selector NPC, etc, can all be found here.
Level 3: Recreation/Social/Park
this is where we can find Club 47 (take three), the tailor, the exchange, galaxy race NPC, and perhaps even more "social" settings and NPCs. (the park as described in the blueprints have a lake, a forest, and an auditorum/stage
I picture this as being about the same size as the Bajor city (which is, admittedly, much smaller than the depiction of the park), with a large central column serving as a turbolift corridor to the other levels)
Level 4 and below: Holodecks/station power generators/foundry hookups
Perhaps a shuttlebay for access to fleet holdings.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
No. . . it's bad. I'd be all over a rebuild if it happens. :::crosses taquitos:::
HA! See!? It IS canon!
Yup, I think I even have a copy of the print version somewhere around here. . .
Ya, that park would be pretty cool, but would probably be too much work, and too much essentially unused space for a hub.
No, it's bad. Yes, everything is accessible, and yes, everything has signs pointing to it, but it's still very confusing. The fact that it's a full loop actually makes it more confusing than if it were just a big arc. I also hate that it's supposed to be in that giant dome park that Phoenix pointed out, but the whole thing is only 400' across instead of the 3000' across that dome is supposed to be. That makes the whole place feel incredibly fake to me. And art is dated and ugly. Doesn't represent 2409 very well. If we ever redo it, I will push hard to make sure that the new interior is the size it should be for where ever in the station it's supposed to be placed.
Signage in general is an issue. Those signs never felt right. We tried to touch them up a little, but they're still pretty bad. Signs need to stand out, and be noticeable, but they also need to feel like they belong to the space they are in.
I agree with pretty much all of this.
I guess, what people try to say is, that it is bad, but that there are even worse spots in the game, albeit none that are as important and central as ESD (e.g., Deep Space K-7 interior - which should look like its TOS-template, but in fact looks like a illogical, quickly thrown-together generic boring non-Star Trek space station).
WHEN you redesign ESD, keep in mind the general philosophy applied with the First City. Not everything has to be functional. It is those epic canon-looking places, that exist just as sort of a side-show, which breathe life, credibility and "Trekiness" into a hub (e.g., the blood wine-bar, the spalding ring, the Old Quarters, the slums etc etc etc.).
AND: @direphoenix: Several levels might sound canon and epic, but it is in fact a very very bad idea for a good hub. Any ESD redesign should and will be aimed at making it prettier, more canon/trekky, BUT ALSO making it a better hub. Several levels just make it confusing and artificially separate the whole place.
If anything from the old ESD were to return, I'd rather have that old lounge area than the neon 80's night club that the new ESD has.
^^This. Just look at the canon-looking cozy seating areas in the Fleet Starbases.
That ridiculous disco-club in ESD was just put up, so people could show off their stupid dance emotes. The Devs will have to decide whether they want that or a canon-trek-feeling of the place. I claim that only one is possible.
The 'park idea' doesn't really fit ESD since the dock takes a lot of place there.
And Taco, I'm definitely with you on the size corrections.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
And yes, the whole thing should have wide open areas to show of the size of the station. Remember this thing is the biggest construction the Federation has.
Administrative section should be in one of those needle spires on top, where everything is arranged around a central column with a 360? view of the other spires and the mushroom dome underneath.
Shipyard section could either be in the outer shell of the mushroom dome or, I would like it better that way, again in the central column but with a wider circumference and maybe -4 short transfer shuttle rides (more like a tram with view outside), not to get from section to section. Doesn't need to utilize every meter around the station.
Every section could show of different types of ships (cruisers, science, escorts and dreadnaughts/carriers) because the view is similar to the shipyard view we have now, just more different angles.
This would also be the entrance area where shuttles arrive and main transporter is located. Basically the stations airport
3rd section would be recreational with the mentioned park, shops, bars, clubs, medical facilities and living quarters etc.
This section would be in the more slim area below the mushroom dome somewhere.
here a view to space and earth would be nice again, so location should be in the outer layer not in the core column and no 360? area around the station is required.
However it could also show that the central core is in fact empty and the player can look up and down the giant shaft toward the shipyard bottom and teh power core/engineering.
Just a thought but one of the issues with small spaces versus large seems to be, well... runspeed.
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the TOS interiors. Racing down the halls makes sense. But sprinting around sickbay looks bad and is one area where I can see interior size being a big issue.
So here's my thought:
Could you have volume effects that shift people to walking?
A lot of MMOs traditionally dismounted players in smaller or more confined spaces. I think it would add to the look of the game... and I've always said that "roleplay" should go beyond text. I think it should have a ludic component, like the Sims or various social games. I think a social action bar with realtime social actions that are parsed as combat (bluff, persuade, perception rolls) would be amazing.
But I actually can see a rationale for allowing/automatically having running outdoors and in hallways/corridors but transitioning indoor spaces to walking first, whether or not a social action bar could ever happen. Because otherwise you see a lot of what looks like people scraping their knees and elbows ramming into countertops every time they move.
So, probably going to get lynched for even suggesting it, but...
I'm of the opinion that the canon ESD model is old enough that it should have been decommissioned and replaced with something more modern a good while ago. I got to thinking about it a bit more and...
What about at some point in the future replacing ESD, both exterior and interior, with the Fleet Starbase model and layout (or a variant of the interior). It would require less work to use existing assets I'd think and it would also provide a nice preview of what you could have if you work hard enough. It's even got an Admiral's office for you to put Quinn IIRC.
I'm of the opinion that the canon ESD model is old enough that it should have been decommissioned and replaced with something more modern a good while ago.
It's a valid opinion, though I disagree.
Assuming the station was constructed using Starfleet's vaunted modular design, it should be relatively easy to upgrade and maintain the structure...less costly in terms of materials and manpower than building a new station from scratch.
The TNG technical manual (yes, questionable canonicity) said that the Galaxy class starships were designed to be in service for over 100 years due to these principles.
Perhaps most importantly, it's what most Star Trek fans would probably prefer to see - the things they fell in love with.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
I thoroughly agree with the perspective that Earth Space Dock is more than just a Starfleet facility. I would enjoy seeing an interior revamp which separates Starfleet administrative features from things like Club 47.
I think the idea of placing the Starfleet departments and the old Crew Lounge (no music needed) inside the hub of the topmost mushroom comes across nicely to me. Place Club 47, the Exchange and even the Tailor (which I don't consider an exclusively Starfleet function) on an entirely different map level. So those of us who enjoy socializing and showing off our dance moves can do that. Those who don't want to have to see us dancing can stay in the shipyard. Or the Admiral's office.
And by all means, incorporate some collision borders on top of consoles, desks and tables (even in Club 47). I don't choose to dance on those. I understand how distracting it may be for other player's. I stick to the spirit of the dance floors.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
No. . . it's bad. I'd be all over a rebuild if it happens. :::crosses taquitos:::
HA! See!? It IS canon!
Yup, I think I even have a copy of the print version somewhere around here. . .
Ya, that park would be pretty cool, but would probably be too much work, and too much essentially unused space for a hub.
No, it's bad. Yes, everything is accessible, and yes, everything has signs pointing to it, but it's still very confusing. The fact that it's a full loop actually makes it more confusing than if it were just a big arc. I also hate that it's supposed to be in that giant dome park that Phoenix pointed out, but the whole thing is only 400' across instead of the 3000' across that dome is supposed to be. That makes the whole place feel incredibly fake to me. And art is dated and ugly. Doesn't represent 2409 very well. If we ever redo it, I will push hard to make sure that the new interior is the size it should be for where ever in the station it's supposed to be placed.
Signage in general is an issue. Those signs never felt right. We tried to touch them up a little, but they're still pretty bad. Signs need to stand out, and be noticeable, but they also need to feel like they belong to the space they are in.
I agree with pretty much all of this.
Actually, I prefer the loop. It makes it easy to get around. Though, If I was changing things, I'd set it in the interior spire of the station, with a lounge you can go to at the top of the station looking out over everything.
Use the four arms inside as the hubs of stuff like the shipyard (other than requisitions, which remains where it is), the admiral's office and admin, vendors, and stuff like that, arranged around a central track that overlooks the main lift shafts and transporter rooms. Then you've got a lift that takes you up to a big, bad new Club 47 with lots and LOTS of room. Maybe it's own separate instance, with all sorts of minigames and dance moves and a dabo table or twenty.
Just a thought but one of the issues with small spaces versus large seems to be, well... runspeed.
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the TOS interiors. Racing down the halls makes sense. But sprinting around sickbay looks bad and is one area where I can see interior size being a big issue.
So here's my thought:
Could you have volume effects that shift people to walking?
A lot of MMOs traditionally dismounted players in smaller or more confined spaces. I think it would add to the look of the game... and I've always said that "roleplay" should go beyond text. I think it should have a ludic component, like the Sims or various social games. I think a social action bar with realtime social actions that are parsed as combat (bluff, persuade, perception rolls) would be amazing.
But I actually can see a rationale for allowing/automatically having running outdoors and in hallways/corridors but transitioning indoor spaces to walking first, whether or not a social action bar could ever happen. Because otherwise you see a lot of what looks like people scraping their knees and elbows ramming into countertops every time they move.
If I can't run from the beam in to the bank/exchange/mail and security NPC, I'll get very angry.
Yes, running around the interiors may look bad and out of place, but some of us are there to get something done. Slowing that will make it very tedious.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Use the four arms inside as the hubs of stuff like the shipyard (other than requisitions, which remains where it is), the admiral's office and admin, vendors, and stuff like that, arranged around a central track that overlooks the main lift shafts and transporter rooms. Then you've got a lift that takes you up to a big, bad new Club 47 with lots and LOTS of room. Maybe it's own separate instance, with all sorts of minigames and dance moves and a dabo table or twenty.
I agree that would be a good place for it, but remember that that center pylon in the docking bay is 1000' across (even before you get to the lugs). Scale would be way off if we took up that whole space with a reasonably sized ESD Concourse.
If I can't run from the beam in to the bank/exchange/mail and security NPC, I'll get very angry.
Yes, running around the interiors may look bad and out of place, but some of us are there to get something done. Slowing that will make it very tedious.
Not what I'm suggesting, really. I'm saying those would be your hallways but when you go into a shop or small area, you shift to walking. Then when you go out of the confined space, you start running again.
Why not just make it a straight hallway that on one end has a slightly curved glass wall that looks out into space and on the other end looks into the the core where the ships are docked. Then put everything we need to see and interact with between the two ends in their own rooms except where it makes sense for them to be outside. With it being more of a grand office space in a major starfleet hub you can make the hallway huge so we can see either window from anywhere in the hall and it would be one of the few larger than life hallways in the game that feels right. Then you can say we could be located at any of the windows on the top portion of the station.
Comments
Nostalgia goggles.
Oh, yes, please!
Pleas forget ESD and focus on a canon DS9 interior (I couldn't care less about exterior scaling)
The Belfast, TOS, Scimitar, and Andorian bridges were canon perfect, DS9 needs that love and attention.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Last time I checked this is just some fan-fiction and not canon.;)
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
Please. Thank you.
One thing I would suggest doing is clarifying the civilian/military presence.
It's always been fuzzy on Trek. I think they tried playing the Promenade as being somewhat unique on DS9 but then on the Enterprise, Guinan runs Ten Forward, Mot runs the barbershop, and there are school classrooms. People discuss themed restaurants and bars on Federation facilities.
I think Thomas, when he created ESD's signage, had a nice analogy when he mentioned airports. I think it is one part airport and with the number of people we have running around out of uniform, it would look better clarified as at least partly a civilian installation.
I think the Army PX, Navy NEX, and Air Force BX are also good examples. They have Burger King's and whatnot.
I think it would be nice, functionally, to have a tailorshop/clothing store that actually looks somewhat like a clothing store with mannequins displaying uniforms. It would also be nice to have both an uptempo and a down tempo social location. I like the idea of a dancefloor/rave as uptempo but I think you'd make a lot of people happy if you had a little Sisko's Restaurant or Vic's or something where extinguishers and devices are disabled and you'd make Zinc happy if just the tables in that one bar couldn't be jumped on, I think.
I think thats quite a good idea, I personally like the idea of adding more Decks to the Interior, Well my suggestion would be to have an open to civilians Commerce section of the base with areas designed for social stuff like Club 47, as well as the tailor , And then on a different deck have a Starfleet only deck, with Armory's, shipyard facilities etc
Oddly, TOS did this the best.
The old ESD that was created by the Cryptic team would - as previously mentioned - make a cool starbase to put out near one of the borders near another faction.
In fact, if we ever have access to the Gamma Quadrant - maybe with the addition of a Cardassian/True Way/Dominion faction - then I would LOVE to see the old ESD model used as the main Federation starbase/shipyard in the Gamma Quadrant.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
No. . . it's bad. I'd be all over a rebuild if it happens. :::crosses taquitos:::
HA! See!? It IS canon!
Yup, I think I even have a copy of the print version somewhere around here. . .
Ya, that park would be pretty cool, but would probably be too much work, and too much essentially unused space for a hub.
No, it's bad. Yes, everything is accessible, and yes, everything has signs pointing to it, but it's still very confusing. The fact that it's a full loop actually makes it more confusing than if it were just a big arc. I also hate that it's supposed to be in that giant dome park that Phoenix pointed out, but the whole thing is only 400' across instead of the 3000' across that dome is supposed to be. That makes the whole place feel incredibly fake to me. And art is dated and ugly. Doesn't represent 2409 very well. If we ever redo it, I will push hard to make sure that the new interior is the size it should be for where ever in the station it's supposed to be placed.
Signage in general is an issue. Those signs never felt right. We tried to touch them up a little, but they're still pretty bad. Signs need to stand out, and be noticeable, but they also need to feel like they belong to the space they are in.
I agree with pretty much all of this.
You say that the park would be too much unused space, but then I see the in-game "Sovereign" bridge football stadiums...
I think you could make it in several "levels":
Raptr profile
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I guess, what people try to say is, that it is bad, but that there are even worse spots in the game, albeit none that are as important and central as ESD (e.g., Deep Space K-7 interior - which should look like its TOS-template, but in fact looks like a illogical, quickly thrown-together generic boring non-Star Trek space station).
WHEN you redesign ESD, keep in mind the general philosophy applied with the First City. Not everything has to be functional. It is those epic canon-looking places, that exist just as sort of a side-show, which breathe life, credibility and "Trekiness" into a hub (e.g., the blood wine-bar, the spalding ring, the Old Quarters, the slums etc etc etc.).
AND: @direphoenix: Several levels might sound canon and epic, but it is in fact a very very bad idea for a good hub. Any ESD redesign should and will be aimed at making it prettier, more canon/trekky, BUT ALSO making it a better hub. Several levels just make it confusing and artificially separate the whole place.
STOWiki admin.
^^This. Just look at the canon-looking cozy seating areas in the Fleet Starbases.
That ridiculous disco-club in ESD was just put up, so people could show off their stupid dance emotes. The Devs will have to decide whether they want that or a canon-trek-feeling of the place. I claim that only one is possible.
STOWiki admin.
And Taco, I'm definitely with you on the size corrections.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
And yes, the whole thing should have wide open areas to show of the size of the station. Remember this thing is the biggest construction the Federation has.
Administrative section should be in one of those needle spires on top, where everything is arranged around a central column with a 360? view of the other spires and the mushroom dome underneath.
Shipyard section could either be in the outer shell of the mushroom dome or, I would like it better that way, again in the central column but with a wider circumference and maybe -4 short transfer shuttle rides (more like a tram with view outside), not to get from section to section. Doesn't need to utilize every meter around the station.
Every section could show of different types of ships (cruisers, science, escorts and dreadnaughts/carriers) because the view is similar to the shipyard view we have now, just more different angles.
This would also be the entrance area where shuttles arrive and main transporter is located. Basically the stations airport
3rd section would be recreational with the mentioned park, shops, bars, clubs, medical facilities and living quarters etc.
This section would be in the more slim area below the mushroom dome somewhere.
here a view to space and earth would be nice again, so location should be in the outer layer not in the core column and no 360? area around the station is required.
However it could also show that the central core is in fact empty and the player can look up and down the giant shaft toward the shipyard bottom and teh power core/engineering.
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the TOS interiors. Racing down the halls makes sense. But sprinting around sickbay looks bad and is one area where I can see interior size being a big issue.
So here's my thought:
Could you have volume effects that shift people to walking?
A lot of MMOs traditionally dismounted players in smaller or more confined spaces. I think it would add to the look of the game... and I've always said that "roleplay" should go beyond text. I think it should have a ludic component, like the Sims or various social games. I think a social action bar with realtime social actions that are parsed as combat (bluff, persuade, perception rolls) would be amazing.
But I actually can see a rationale for allowing/automatically having running outdoors and in hallways/corridors but transitioning indoor spaces to walking first, whether or not a social action bar could ever happen. Because otherwise you see a lot of what looks like people scraping their knees and elbows ramming into countertops every time they move.
I'm of the opinion that the canon ESD model is old enough that it should have been decommissioned and replaced with something more modern a good while ago. I got to thinking about it a bit more and...
What about at some point in the future replacing ESD, both exterior and interior, with the Fleet Starbase model and layout (or a variant of the interior). It would require less work to use existing assets I'd think and it would also provide a nice preview of what you could have if you work hard enough. It's even got an Admiral's office for you to put Quinn IIRC.
It's a valid opinion, though I disagree.
Assuming the station was constructed using Starfleet's vaunted modular design, it should be relatively easy to upgrade and maintain the structure...less costly in terms of materials and manpower than building a new station from scratch.
The TNG technical manual (yes, questionable canonicity) said that the Galaxy class starships were designed to be in service for over 100 years due to these principles.
Perhaps most importantly, it's what most Star Trek fans would probably prefer to see - the things they fell in love with.
I think the idea of placing the Starfleet departments and the old Crew Lounge (no music needed) inside the hub of the topmost mushroom comes across nicely to me. Place Club 47, the Exchange and even the Tailor (which I don't consider an exclusively Starfleet function) on an entirely different map level. So those of us who enjoy socializing and showing off our dance moves can do that. Those who don't want to have to see us dancing can stay in the shipyard. Or the Admiral's office.
And by all means, incorporate some collision borders on top of consoles, desks and tables (even in Club 47). I don't choose to dance on those. I understand how distracting it may be for other player's. I stick to the spirit of the dance floors.
Actually, I prefer the loop. It makes it easy to get around. Though, If I was changing things, I'd set it in the interior spire of the station, with a lounge you can go to at the top of the station looking out over everything.
Use the four arms inside as the hubs of stuff like the shipyard (other than requisitions, which remains where it is), the admiral's office and admin, vendors, and stuff like that, arranged around a central track that overlooks the main lift shafts and transporter rooms. Then you've got a lift that takes you up to a big, bad new Club 47 with lots and LOTS of room. Maybe it's own separate instance, with all sorts of minigames and dance moves and a dabo table or twenty.
I am in support of this idea.
Yes, running around the interiors may look bad and out of place, but some of us are there to get something done. Slowing that will make it very tedious.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I agree that would be a good place for it, but remember that that center pylon in the docking bay is 1000' across (even before you get to the lugs). Scale would be way off if we took up that whole space with a reasonably sized ESD Concourse.
Not what I'm suggesting, really. I'm saying those would be your hallways but when you go into a shop or small area, you shift to walking. Then when you go out of the confined space, you start running again.