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Forums > Home› Feedback› The Art of Star Trek Online

The First ESD

seaquest42seaquest42 Member Posts: 71 Arc User
edited February 2014 in The Art of Star Trek Online
Some of you remember this ESD when STO first started beta, it was huge, 24 century feeling massive station, bigger then the current ESD, the interiors were bigger and plenty to see. So how about we bring that Massive ESD back. I think it time we get a different station and I know the current ESD cannot hold the Oddy and Regent classes. So how about it?
I am me, always will be.
Post edited by seaquest42 on
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Comments

  • peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Considering how much people lobbied for it to changed to what it is now, I doubt it is likely to happen.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    And minus the extended and much more impressive shipyard that we have now.
    Previously Alendiak
    Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
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  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    The old ESD couldn't hold any large ships either

    http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/430066-star-trek-online-windows-screenshot-earth-spacedocks.jpg

    and as others have pointed out the interior was the same.
    It also worked with the old exterior of course since it was essentially in that domed structure at the top. IMHO this one, which appearently based a starbase the Gua'uld used in Stargate, could be repainted and used as an alien starbase very easily.

    http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/8/89/Hasara_space_station.JPG

    It also shows how incredibly generic this thing was. Paint it green, stick some raptors on it and put it in orbit of New Romulus and it works just as well as it worked in Earth orbit...possibly even better.
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    seaquest42 wrote: »
    Some of you remember this ESD when STO first started beta, it was huge, 24 century feeling massive station, bigger then the current ESD, the interiors were bigger and plenty to see. So how about we bring that Massive ESD back. I think it time we get a different station and I know the current ESD cannot hold the Oddy and Regent classes. So how about it?

    Deffinitly not.
    Getting the original space dock is still one of biggest progresses the game made....

    I'd like to see the station itself reused somewhere else, but the ESD has to stay where and how it is!!!!!
    Support more story content in STO
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,684 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    there need to make ESD door bigger thats all i like the ESD from the films it makes me feel like im really in the star trek universe. the ground map of esd needs a revamp if u ask me ive lost count how many times ive gone the wrong way.
    gs9kwcxytstg.jpg
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    misterde3 wrote: »
    http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/430066-star-trek-online-windows-screenshot-earth-spacedocks.jpg

    *sigh* Hi old UI from way back then.

    Things sure were different back then.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    A mime is a terrible thing to waste
    pwlaughingtrendy wrote:
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • steaensteaen Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    wilbor2 wrote: »
    the ground map of esd needs a revamp if u ask me ive lost count how many times ive gone the wrong way.

    So it needs a revamp because you can't navigate it?

    Maybe your sense of direction needs revamping, may I suggest an upgrade to a MkXII fleet version? ;)
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    wilbor2 wrote: »
    the ground map of esd needs a revamp if u ask me ive lost count how many times ive gone the wrong way.

    you've lost your way in a colour-coded circle? sorry, I got nothing.
  • davidwforddavidwford Member Posts: 1,836 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    misterde3 wrote: »
    The old ESD couldn't hold any large ships either

    http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/430066-star-trek-online-windows-screenshot-earth-spacedocks.jpg

    and as others have pointed out the interior was the same.
    It also worked with the old exterior of course since it was essentially in that domed structure at the top. IMHO this one, which appearently based a starbase the Gua'uld used in Stargate, could be repainted and used as an alien starbase very easily.

    http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/8/89/Hasara_space_station.JPG

    It also shows how incredibly generic this thing was. Paint it green, stick some raptors on it and put it in orbit of New Romulus and it works just as well as it worked in Earth orbit...possibly even better.

    I would certainly support that! It could be used either as the New Romulus orbital station, a Mars Space Dock as proposed in another thread or, they could insert it into the Battle Group Omega as part of an overhaul of that social zone.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    seaquest42 wrote: »
    So how about it?

    I love it. It's part of what made STO feel like its own game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • seaquest42seaquest42 Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    capnkirk4 wrote: »
    You mean the Christmas Tree? The interior was the same one we have now, Ace. Only the outside visual was different. And it was on the other side of Earth. Arguably, the point could be made that the interior is bigger now, than it was then, with the inclusion of the lower level doors, even though there's nothing down there. Thanks for another boner, Cryptic.

    The interiors are different on both stations.. allow me to post a before and after pics

    Before stateroom.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Earth_Spacedock_Stateroom.jpg

    After and much smaller.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:ESD_stateroom.jpg

    Club 47 Before

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Earth_Spacedock_Club_47.jpg

    After and much smaller.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:ESD_Club_47.jpg

    Before Observation Lounge

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Earth_Spacedock_Observation_Lounge.jpg

    After... ESD don't have one.

    Before Admiral Quinn Office ( now at SB 39)

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Earth_Spacedock_Admiral_Quinn%27s_Office.jpg

    After and oh it smaller...

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:ESD_admiral%27s_office_2.jpg

    Before Mail and Banks

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Earth_Spacedock_Bank_%26_Mail.jpg

    After Mail and Banks...yep you guess it... it Smaller...

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:ESD_bank_and_mail.jpg

    As you can see in these pics The current ESD is smaller then the first one and you can bet the first station can dock the Regent and Oddy outside of the station with its docking pylons. The current ESD don't have that.

    Thank you for you time :)
    I am me, always will be.
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Some rooms have been redesigned but it is still the same map.

    And the staging room is identical, as even your own pics show....
    Support more story content in STO
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    "Smaller" in your case simply means there are additional walls to seperate the rooms from the coridors while the old ESD had totally pointless open areas.
    The map itself was precisely the same...

    old ESD:

    http://zam.zamimg.com/images/1/9/1996c4b1837aa9e8948ebd92fd33b70d.jpg

    new ESD:

    http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/sto.gamepedia.com/5/53/EarthSpacedockFromMap.png

    ...except there are now additional places on it (the ones close to the center) like the backroom of Club 47 that wasn't there before that you conveniently forgot to mention while together with that it's actually bigger than the old one.

    And in case of the stateroom for example "smaller" means they changed the stairs somewhat.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    capnkirk4 wrote: »
    I stand corrected. However, I'm not sure how going back to the big, old, generic looking, empty spaces, would add anything to the game. The redesigns just added a sense of purpose, and identity, to the individual areas, rather than just rearranging the furniture in the cookie cutter spaces the older maps had. Take the Bank/Exchange for instance. How many consoles do you really need to access these features? Players run in, use the closest console to them, then leave. The consoles farthest from the player are just wasted space. Does Admiral Quinn really need an office the size of a 3 story luxury condo? I do think the Stateroom looks better with 2 staircases, though. And the new shipyard is way better, than the big, dark, empty, hall of the old map.
    Dark and Empty???? BEHOLD! NOTE: this is the version in foundry...

    that being said it did feel kinda cramped. (It's literally in the basement)

    what he calls the "Observation lounge" was the "private" part of club 47. I forget if it was open to everyone....

    The old admiral's office kinda stank since you had to rezone to enter it... It's not even like going to DS9 Ops, or the office at SB39.... those you take a lift to access.

    Honestly the main difference now is the lack of vaulted ceilings in some maps.... which were a bit of a waste to start with. Oh and some maps have dividing walls inside them that make them look smaller than they are. Quinn's office, and the Mail room are good examples there.

    EDIT: oh and before I forget.... I would like to remind the rose tinted glasses wearers that the old ESD required you to rezone to leave the transporter area.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    To be honest, While I wouldn't want the old esd to replace the new one, but I wouldn't mind them reusing it somewhere else. Maybe as a minor starbase in the the Betazed or Trill systems when they are eventually added.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I like the current one since its more what they have at Earth. Where the one before was just hideous.
    Enterprise%20C_zpsrdrf3v8d.jpg

    USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    The standard mushroom starbase is best, but it does need to be scaled up so you could think that the new giant ships would be able to enter it. I don't think the Galaxy (big and old ship) could safely enter and maneuver inside it.
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • sfc#5932 sfc
    sfc#5932
         Member Posts: 992 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2014
    misterde3 wrote: »
    The old ESD couldn't hold any large ships either

    http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/430066-star-trek-online-windows-screenshot-earth-spacedocks.jpg

    and as others have pointed out the interior was the same.
    It also worked with the old exterior of course since it was essentially in that domed structure at the top. IMHO this one, which appearently based a starbase the Gua'uld used in Stargate, could be repainted and used as an alien starbase very easily.

    http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/8/89/Hasara_space_station.JPG

    It also shows how incredibly generic this thing was. Paint it green, stick some raptors on it and put it in orbit of New Romulus and it works just as well as it worked in Earth orbit...possibly even better.
    Your comments remind me of something I saw in ESD chat back in '11 when ESD was being replaced - "Cryptic should paint old ESD green and give it to the Klingons." :D
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    nakedsnake001 wrote: »
    Your comments remind me of something I saw in ESD chat back in '11 when ESD was being replaced - "Cryptic should paint old ESD green and give it to the Klingons." :D

    Yeah...no...Klingon bases are a bit more on the grey side actually.;)

    http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080905044228/memoryalpha/en/images/a/a0/Ty%27Gokor_orbital_facility.jpg
  • shinzonisbackshinzonisback Member Posts: 330
    edited February 2014
    misterde3 wrote: »
    http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/430066-star-trek-online-windows-screenshot-earth-spacedocks.jpg --> :Q________


    http://images.wikia.com/stargate/images/8/89/hasara_space_station.jpg ---> :Q______________________

    I Want Them ... Now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why did they changed them T_T ?

    I mean:
    they changed something beautiful with something ... not bad.

    WHY ??
    Italian Player - Forgive my bad English

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    capnkirk4 wrote: »
    I wasn't aware there were transporters in the old map. I always just beamed in next to the plant, in the fountain room.
    Well... that was because the plant is directly above the transporter pad. (look at the minimap in my pic)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • cookiecrookcookiecrook Member Posts: 4,536 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    seaquest42 wrote: »
    Before Observation Lounge

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/File:Earth_Spacedock_Observation_Lounge.jpg

    After... ESD don't have one.

    There is no reason why they can't return the Lounge. So many doors in ESD that don't so squat, they could easily add it back.

    No one wanted Drozana changed but they decided to ruin the station anyway. :mad:
    <
    > <
    > <
    >
    Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    capnkirk4 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how going back to the big, old, generic looking, empty spaces, would add anything to the game.

    Now we need the bigger spaces to fit the dinosa ... I mean, VOTH.

    ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    cookiecrook wrote: »
    No one wanted Drozana changed but they decided to ruin the station anyway. :mad:

    The primary reason why my Fed Toons stick to ESD or their own bridges to do stuff. And my KDF characters stick to DS9 to do stuff. All the other stations and homeworlds were hard enough to traverse initially, but revamps made them worse!

    The Chronos revamp? Looks pretty. I hate it in terms of getting around. It's just not streamlined like ESD or DS9 are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    cookiecrook wrote: »

    No one wanted Drozana changed but they decided to ruin the station anyway. :mad:

    Really, cause I have to say I much prefer the new version.:)
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I'm glad they replaced it, this station resembles nothing in the entire franchise and ESD would not be obsolete by the time STO is taking place. The design could have a place somewhere but not as Earth's representative spaceport.
    peetapipmac wrote: »
    Really, cause I have to say I much prefer the new version.:)
    Really? I find Drozana's wide open space to be much less visually interesting.
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
    Oh Hell NO to ARC
  • peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    maxvitor wrote: »
    I'm glad they replaced it, this station resembles nothing in the entire franchise and ESD would not be obsolete by the time STO is taking place. The design could have a place somewhere but not as Earth's representative spaceport.
    Really? I find Drozana's wide open space to be much less visually interesting.

    I felt that way about the old one. I thought it was very cramped and unappealing, I much prefer the more open plan look of the new version.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
  • bladewolf5bladewolf5 Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Will be interesting to see it...:)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    snoggymack22 wrote: »
    The primary reason why my Fed Toons stick to ESD or their own bridges to do stuff. And my KDF characters stick to DS9 to do stuff. All the other stations and homeworlds were hard enough to traverse initially, but revamps made them worse!

    The Chronos revamp? Looks pretty. I hate it in terms of getting around. It's just not streamlined like ESD or DS9 are.
    DS9? More streamlined than First City? lol wut? It's actually as streamlined as the new First City. Mail/bank/exchange is south, Great Hall is East, and West is the merchants. It's much better than the old map. you used to have to zig-zag up a flight of stairs to get to the Great Hall. And all the services were hidden behind zig-zagy corridors.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    shinzonisback wrote: »
    I Want Them ... Now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why did they changed them T_T ?

    I mean:
    they changed something beautiful with something ... not bad.

    WHY ??

    Why? HMM I'll give you this image from Star Trek TNG as a hint:

    http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120804223947/memoryalpha/en/images/1/17/USS_Enterprise-D_approaches_a_Spacedock_type_station.jpg
    ;)
    [Yes, it's not ESD, it'S Starbase 74]

    Some people liked the different Earth Space Dock from the launch of the game and some certainly didn't. But in either case the one from the movies was certainly more familiar than this:

    http://ruzstolog.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/earth-spacedock.jpg

    and to be honest, the one from the movies is what I personally expected to see.
    When I finished the old tutorial and was told to warp to ESD...let's just say I was very much disappointed. And my guess is so were a lot of other folks who hadn't seen any screenshots of what ESD looked like at the time.

    The way I see it a lot of people wanted to get a chance to fly through the Star Trek universe as they knew it from the shows and movies. Updated certainly because it is no longer the 2360's from TNG or the 2370's. But when you leap X years ahead in your storyline you need to find a compromse between the old/familiar and the new. People will expect both.
    A good example, at least to me, are some of the BoP bridges the Klingons have.

    http://www.stoacademy.com/downloads/wallpaper/5.jpg

    They work so well because it's a layout similar to the brigde Kruge's Bird-of-Prey had in Star Trek 3.

    http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090601080704/startrek/images/f/fc/Kruge_on_the_bridge.jpg

    Yes, it's not a clone but it's a bit of the familiar and a bit of the new look and feel STO brings to the mix.

    So if they had done something similar with ESD's exterior it might have worked.
    Just an idea: the familiar mushroom station at the center with some kind of frame added around it with arms such as those we see in the....altered Gua'uld station.
    It would have been an upgraded version of the old, a bit familiar and new at the same time. Yes it wouldn't have satisfied those who insist stuff must be 1,000% like it used to be. But it could have been a decent compromise between what people expect and the need to set STO apart from the 24th century most of the shows were set in.
    But whoever designed that thing appearently thought "let's do something completely different!".

    http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/042010/a80770d8-d73c-432a-8b8f-a5311a8c9750.jpg

    I hope you see why that might put some people off.
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