I'm glad they replaced it, this station resembles nothing in the entire franchise and ESD would not be obsolete by the time STO is taking place. The design could have a place somewhere but not as Earth's representative spaceport.
I'm glad they replaced it, this station resembles nothing in the entire franchise and ESD would not be obsolete by the time STO is taking place. The design could have a place somewhere but not as Earth's representative spaceport.
Really? I find Drozana's wide open space to be much less visually interesting.
I felt that way about the old one. I thought it was very cramped and unappealing, I much prefer the more open plan look of the new version.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
The primary reason why my Fed Toons stick to ESD or their own bridges to do stuff. And my KDF characters stick to DS9 to do stuff. All the other stations and homeworlds were hard enough to traverse initially, but revamps made them worse!
The Chronos revamp? Looks pretty. I hate it in terms of getting around. It's just not streamlined like ESD or DS9 are.
DS9? More streamlined than First City? lol wut? It's actually as streamlined as the new First City. Mail/bank/exchange is south, Great Hall is East, and West is the merchants. It's much better than the old map. you used to have to zig-zag up a flight of stairs to get to the Great Hall. And all the services were hidden behind zig-zagy corridors.
Some people liked the different Earth Space Dock from the launch of the game and some certainly didn't. But in either case the one from the movies was certainly more familiar than this:
and to be honest, the one from the movies is what I personally expected to see.
When I finished the old tutorial and was told to warp to ESD...let's just say I was very much disappointed. And my guess is so were a lot of other folks who hadn't seen any screenshots of what ESD looked like at the time.
The way I see it a lot of people wanted to get a chance to fly through the Star Trek universe as they knew it from the shows and movies. Updated certainly because it is no longer the 2360's from TNG or the 2370's. But when you leap X years ahead in your storyline you need to find a compromse between the old/familiar and the new. People will expect both.
A good example, at least to me, are some of the BoP bridges the Klingons have.
Yes, it's not a clone but it's a bit of the familiar and a bit of the new look and feel STO brings to the mix.
So if they had done something similar with ESD's exterior it might have worked.
Just an idea: the familiar mushroom station at the center with some kind of frame added around it with arms such as those we see in the....altered Gua'uld station.
It would have been an upgraded version of the old, a bit familiar and new at the same time. Yes it wouldn't have satisfied those who insist stuff must be 1,000% like it used to be. But it could have been a decent compromise between what people expect and the need to set STO apart from the 24th century most of the shows were set in.
But whoever designed that thing appearently thought "let's do something completely different!".
Keep the current one, the old one was ugly and not even remotely canon. When entering Earth space I get a warm happy feeling every time I see the station, it is one of the few true canon locations we have.
The Current ESD feels tiny inside. I am fine with keeping the current main level as it is, however I wish there was more depth to the overall station like we have at the fleet starbases, or even our ships!
Would be awesome if there was a level full of meeting rooms, holodecks, cargo bays, living space, an engineering deck, etc.
Currently ESD interior feels small as compared to the hundreds (?) of levels it appears to have when warping into the station.
Keep the current one, the old one was ugly and not even remotely canon. When entering Earth space I get a warm happy feeling every time I see the station, it is one of the few true canon locations we have.
^^^ That and nothing else, every time i approach this station i have that kind of feeling i have every time i watch TNG....
... If there just wouldn't be that oversized fugly warbirds surrounding it... (sry to all warbird lovers, but they just don't belong into Sol system!)
EDIT: Pretty funny actually, i posted into the thread seconds before it got merged :P
The old ESD could be used as a basis for other Deep Space stations; for example they could add in Deep Space 7 near the Romulan boarder, especially with all the Iconian/Elachi/Dyson Sphere/Undine shenanigans going on over there recently.
Have to admit, I don't really see why we couldn't have had both.
Do you want to stack them on top of each other?;)
Please don't leave us guessing what you mean by that.:)
I mean I could assume you meant something similar to my own proposal, build an "upgrade-frame" with the mushrom ESD at the center but then again you could mean something entirely different.
I like the OLD station waaaaay better. The new one is tiny and doesn't really look like it's able to support the massive influx of captains that are now idly hovering above Earth space, which is odd. The old one had various docking bays, was large enough to give that sense that it could support all these new captains, and felt like a big step up into the 25th century, instead of sticking with the old, tiny base whose doors aren't big enough for most Starfleet vessels.
I'm disappointed people still want to linger to the old Star Trek instead of embracing the new This game seems like it's stuck in the past and doesn't feel like it's in the 25th century. Oh well, c'est la vie.
I like the OLD station waaaaay better. The new one is tiny and doesn't really look like it's able to support the massive influx of captains that are now idly hovering above Earth space, which is odd. The old one had various docking bays, was large enough to give that sense that it could support all these new captains, and felt like a big step up into the 25th century, instead of sticking with the old, tiny base whose doors aren't big enough for most Starfleet vessels.
Actually the old ESD was not really bigger than the one we have now.
It had many very thin parts and holes so the overall volume was smaller.
In addition the docking arms were actually small. While the look hughe compared to those ships in the shot, the Connie is about a 140 meters wide so all you can get in this arm are a bunch of smaller or a single larger ship like a Galaxy.
So actually the amount of ships you could get into ESD (arms plus the small dome at the top) was smaller since you have the entire large structure on new ESD to fill up.
So the only "advantage" the old ESD had was wider doors.
If you're nostalgic for old esd, you can use it in a foundry mission.
To add. If you are nostalgic for many old maps no longer in game, such as the space station from the recently removed 'War is Good for Business" and the unremastered maps for much of the early fed stuff. A LOT of it is waiting for you in the Foundry.
I've been advocating rebuilding ESD's interior forever. You will hear no argument from me.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
There are a few glimpses of the observation deck as the Ent limps home, and a couple of other random rooms, but it's very random and incoherent.
Some of you remember this ESD when STO first started beta, it was huge, 24 century feeling massive station, bigger then the current ESD, the interiors were bigger and plenty to see. So how about we bring that Massive ESD back. I think it time we get a different station and I know the current ESD cannot hold the Oddy and Regent classes. So how about it?
The interior of the launch version of ESD was 99% the same map we have now. They changed the shipyard to include the window that has ships floating in it, and did rework Admiral Quinn's office and a few other minor tweaks (door visual changes, etc.) -- but, bottom line - the size of the ESD interior map didn't really change when they replaced the 24th century monstrosity with the canon 23rd century version of ESD (and BTW that Starbase model was shown in the TNG first season episode "11001001" -- although is wasn't shown orbiting Earth, there's no reason to believe the ESD was replaced/upgraded in TNG's era either.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I've been advocating rebuilding ESD's interior forever. You will hear no argument from me.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
There are a few glimpses of the observation deck as the Ent limps home, and a couple of other random rooms, but it's very random and incoherent.
I think it's pretty well established, that we know virtually nothing of what ESD should look like inside. Which means that you could essentially design ESD any way you want. The current ESD isn't "bad", but it's a bit cumbersome to move around. Making the place easier to navigate, use the turbolift more frequently would be a move in the right direction (if it can be done without a loading screen).
As long as they keep the current exterior, and DO NOT allow whoever worked on the horror that is the new Drozanna station interior near it, I would love to see an ESD interior revamp.
I've been advocating rebuilding ESD's interior forever. You will hear no argument from me.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
There are a few glimpses of the observation deck as the Ent limps home, and a couple of other random rooms, but it's very random and incoherent.
May I presume any of the staff have seen these starbase blueprints? (yes, I know this is SB-79, but it's similar in design to SB-1/ESD)
Problem is that they changed the size of the ESD-like station from the TOS-movies to TNG, in order to make the Galaxy-class fit thru its doors - so they basically DOUBLED its size...
So I would be careful with those reference works...
The current interior may be "not bad"... but "not bad" should NOT be good enough for STO anymore, and it sounds like Steven D'Angelo thinks exactly the same
Can't wait to see how the Devs revamp the ESD interior!!! Keep us updated!
I think it's pretty well established, that we know virtually nothing of what ESD should look like inside. Which means that you could essentially design ESD any way you want. The current ESD isn't "bad", but it's a bit cumbersome to move around. Making the place easier to navigate, use the turbolift more frequently would be a move in the right direction (if it can be done without a loading screen).
I'm not quite sure what's so bad with it right now. It's color coded, there are labels and written signs on the walls, and you can cut across the middle to get from one section to the next if it's not adjacent.
Turbolifts would mean more loading screens, and having to find the right level to click on (a minor thing, but still an extra step) as opposed to just walking or running to the spot.
I've been advocating rebuilding ESD's interior forever. You will hear no argument from me.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
There are a few glimpses of the observation deck as the Ent limps home, and a couple of other random rooms, but it's very random and incoherent.
it would be cool if club 47 also had a window into the space dock interior too, like that lounge did in ST3
To add. If you are nostalgic for many old maps no longer in game, such as the space station from the recently removed 'War is Good for Business" and the unremastered maps for much of the early fed stuff. A LOT of it is waiting for you in the Foundry.
I went on there to look at the old ESD interior... it was really drab. I do miss the upstairs ship area that used to be in it but I like the new shipyard view better. The only thing I don't care for much is the color-coded signage around the current ESD. Would look better if it had a more "trek" appearance. I liked the old ESD signage better than the new ones but even those could have used in update.
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Lifetime Sub since June 2010
only thing i wish for is, that you can't run a full circle inside ESD with your character in a little over a minute.
The inside should reflect the size of the station more appropriately.
If that means i need to take a turbolift each time i want to go from the exchange to club 47, so be it...
admiral quinn's office should be ontop of the station with panoramic view of earth and the moon.
the commerce centre should be huge, maybe with cargo containers being hauled around. The first city commerce "room" is really great in that regard with all the cargo space underneath.
Let's be honest: The current interior is OK, but not thrilling. First City on the other hand is awesome and has all the feel and looks of Star Trek. ESD has not.
ESD's interior needs to look Star Trek. The textures, the lightning, the signs (barf) are very "untrekky". And it is kind of cramped. First City offers those wide space without feeling empty or spartanic, on the contrary. As the first and most important hub for Federation players, ESD needs to be packed with recognizable Star Trek artwork which really transport the look and feel of the shows/movies (just like First City manages to do it!)
Take a look at the FED Fleet starbases: 3-D chess, fish tanks, cozy seating areas, "trekky" holo-LCARS displays --> more space without an empty-feel.
An Arboretum (would have the same important purpose as First City's Old Quarter and Slums: To add flavor, credibility, "size" and atmosphere)
The little airplane-dogfight holo-game (yes, that was a bar on Earth's surface, but still; and only as a decoration, not as a playbale mini.game)
The inner hangar has to be visible from more if not every location inside ESD
The ESD-System map has to be revamped. Earth needs a texture overhaul (which it already got - but only during the brief sequences of the new tutorial). And Earth should be a "big planet", like Orith Prime or the planet in Khitomer Vortex. The moon should also be "unreachable" but visible.
WHEN you redesign ESD, pleeeeease give Deep Space-K7 a quick pass. It's interior looks HORRIBLE. The ultimate goal would be to give it its old TOS-look (the bar, the admin's office), but due to well-known time-constraints, a quick pass will have to do (hopefully).
I've been advocating rebuilding ESD's interior forever. You will hear no argument from me.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
All the more reason to rebuild DS9's interior instead!
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
I was pleased with the 2nd Anniversary restoring the more familiar Earth Space Dock. I didn't hate the original STO model, it just didn't feel Trek enough for me. Ironically, if you follow the cover art for the more recent Ds9 tie-in novels, they destroyed Ds9 and replaced it with a new space station. The cover art, by Doug Drexler, is more balanced - but similar - in style to the original STO model. I wouldn't object to it re-appearing at a distant Federation border. As a newer starbase. Even so, I'd want the current Art Team to give it serious once over first.
There is no reason for those station to work as "hangars" because ESD is a terrible design as it creates the problems we seen, when ship design evolved it prevents the ships from docking so they get obsolete as time moves on and so design would either be restricted to the size the doors were created and so conditioning ship size or they would have to build a new station ever time ships got too big to the fit the door.
Also as I om this subject, the Excelsior in "Search of Spock" also did not fit the doors either or if it did, just barely.
I don't want a blown up massive "this is no moon" station because nostalgia, if K-7 is ridiculous oversize because of that since really, if there is a station that could been rescaled that's one and if it doesn't work for a social area because "too small" then create larger structures around the proper scaled K-7 that would just work as a social area or just ditch it in space and make a mission around going there.
Had the TNG producers listened to Andrew Probert - who took the orginal ESD into consideration when he designed the Galaxy class - starships so large were never intended to park inside ESD at all. But to dock right under the mushroom top.
Regarding K-7, I can't think of any reason that the current interior would not fit within a scaled-to-canon exterior model. In addition, I'd place support structures nearby K-7 and Sherman's Planet. Not unlike what we have for our Fleet Starbases. Though, IMO, the interior floor plan could benefit from eliminating the need for the zig-zag corridors between sections. As well as creating an Ops (say, a Starfleet version of Ds9's Ops) area for Commander Wildman. There shouldn't be any such thing as an Admiral's Office. And, please, for Q's sake get rid of the ancient barn doors.
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Comments
I felt that way about the old one. I thought it was very cramped and unappealing, I much prefer the more open plan look of the new version.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
My character Tsin'xing
Why? HMM I'll give you this image from Star Trek TNG as a hint:
http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120804223947/memoryalpha/en/images/1/17/USS_Enterprise-D_approaches_a_Spacedock_type_station.jpg
[Yes, it's not ESD, it'S Starbase 74]
Some people liked the different Earth Space Dock from the launch of the game and some certainly didn't. But in either case the one from the movies was certainly more familiar than this:
http://ruzstolog.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/earth-spacedock.jpg
and to be honest, the one from the movies is what I personally expected to see.
When I finished the old tutorial and was told to warp to ESD...let's just say I was very much disappointed. And my guess is so were a lot of other folks who hadn't seen any screenshots of what ESD looked like at the time.
The way I see it a lot of people wanted to get a chance to fly through the Star Trek universe as they knew it from the shows and movies. Updated certainly because it is no longer the 2360's from TNG or the 2370's. But when you leap X years ahead in your storyline you need to find a compromse between the old/familiar and the new. People will expect both.
A good example, at least to me, are some of the BoP bridges the Klingons have.
http://www.stoacademy.com/downloads/wallpaper/5.jpg
They work so well because it's a layout similar to the brigde Kruge's Bird-of-Prey had in Star Trek 3.
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090601080704/startrek/images/f/fc/Kruge_on_the_bridge.jpg
Yes, it's not a clone but it's a bit of the familiar and a bit of the new look and feel STO brings to the mix.
So if they had done something similar with ESD's exterior it might have worked.
Just an idea: the familiar mushroom station at the center with some kind of frame added around it with arms such as those we see in the....altered Gua'uld station.
It would have been an upgraded version of the old, a bit familiar and new at the same time. Yes it wouldn't have satisfied those who insist stuff must be 1,000% like it used to be. But it could have been a decent compromise between what people expect and the need to set STO apart from the 24th century most of the shows were set in.
But whoever designed that thing appearently thought "let's do something completely different!".
http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/042010/a80770d8-d73c-432a-8b8f-a5311a8c9750.jpg
I hope you see why that might put some people off.
Yes please!
The Current ESD feels tiny inside. I am fine with keeping the current main level as it is, however I wish there was more depth to the overall station like we have at the fleet starbases, or even our ships!
Would be awesome if there was a level full of meeting rooms, holodecks, cargo bays, living space, an engineering deck, etc.
Currently ESD interior feels small as compared to the hundreds (?) of levels it appears to have when warping into the station.
^^^ That and nothing else, every time i approach this station i have that kind of feeling i have every time i watch TNG....
... If there just wouldn't be that oversized fugly warbirds surrounding it... (sry to all warbird lovers, but they just don't belong into Sol system!)
EDIT: Pretty funny actually, i posted into the thread seconds before it got merged :P
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Do you want to stack them on top of each other?;)
Please don't leave us guessing what you mean by that.:)
I mean I could assume you meant something similar to my own proposal, build an "upgrade-frame" with the mushrom ESD at the center but then again you could mean something entirely different.
I'm disappointed people still want to linger to the old Star Trek instead of embracing the new
Actually the old ESD was not really bigger than the one we have now.
It had many very thin parts and holes so the overall volume was smaller.
http://a.images.blip.tv/STOTV-StarTrekOnlineEarthSpacedockTour238.jpg
http://deflectorshields.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/new-vesper-class-cruiser.jpg
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz321/cold_gin_time_again/sto_spacedock.jpg
In addition the docking arms were actually small. While the look hughe compared to those ships in the shot, the Connie is about a 140 meters wide so all you can get in this arm are a bunch of smaller or a single larger ship like a Galaxy.
So actually the amount of ships you could get into ESD (arms plus the small dome at the top) was smaller since you have the entire large structure on new ESD to fill up.
So the only "advantage" the old ESD had was wider doors.
http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/272011/59ebeb16-59b8-436b-8246-371999abb0bc.jpg
Please no! The current ESD is canon, which is why it was switched in the first place, and the old ESD is hideous and poorly constructed.
Now all it needs is a more canon/more epic/less laggy INterior.
Make it so, Number One (environment artist).
To add. If you are nostalgic for many old maps no longer in game, such as the space station from the recently removed 'War is Good for Business" and the unremastered maps for much of the early fed stuff. A LOT of it is waiting for you in the Foundry.
However, there really ISN'T any canon to what the INTERIOR looks like.
There are a few glimpses of the observation deck as the Ent limps home, and a couple of other random rooms, but it's very random and incoherent.
The interior of the launch version of ESD was 99% the same map we have now. They changed the shipyard to include the window that has ships floating in it, and did rework Admiral Quinn's office and a few other minor tweaks (door visual changes, etc.) -- but, bottom line - the size of the ESD interior map didn't really change when they replaced the 24th century monstrosity with the canon 23rd century version of ESD (and BTW that Starbase model was shown in the TNG first season episode "11001001" -- although is wasn't shown orbiting Earth, there's no reason to believe the ESD was replaced/upgraded in TNG's era either.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I think it's pretty well established, that we know virtually nothing of what ESD should look like inside. Which means that you could essentially design ESD any way you want. The current ESD isn't "bad", but it's a bit cumbersome to move around. Making the place easier to navigate, use the turbolift more frequently would be a move in the right direction (if it can be done without a loading screen).
Oh. I guess the current ESD is like that too. Kinda like cannon. Never mind, carry on.
May I presume any of the staff have seen these starbase blueprints? (yes, I know this is SB-79, but it's similar in design to SB-1/ESD)
The bulging middle section is actually a giant terrestrial park-like area with a holographic "sky"
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Problem is that they changed the size of the ESD-like station from the TOS-movies to TNG, in order to make the Galaxy-class fit thru its doors - so they basically DOUBLED its size...
So I would be careful with those reference works...
The current interior may be "not bad"... but "not bad" should NOT be good enough for STO anymore, and it sounds like Steven D'Angelo thinks exactly the same
Can't wait to see how the Devs revamp the ESD interior!!! Keep us updated!
STOWiki admin.
I'm not quite sure what's so bad with it right now. It's color coded, there are labels and written signs on the walls, and you can cut across the middle to get from one section to the next if it's not adjacent.
Turbolifts would mean more loading screens, and having to find the right level to click on (a minor thing, but still an extra step) as opposed to just walking or running to the spot.
it would be cool if club 47 also had a window into the space dock interior too, like that lounge did in ST3
I went on there to look at the old ESD interior... it was really drab. I do miss the upstairs ship area that used to be in it but I like the new shipyard view better. The only thing I don't care for much is the color-coded signage around the current ESD. Would look better if it had a more "trek" appearance. I liked the old ESD signage better than the new ones but even those could have used in update.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
The inside should reflect the size of the station more appropriately.
If that means i need to take a turbolift each time i want to go from the exchange to club 47, so be it...
admiral quinn's office should be ontop of the station with panoramic view of earth and the moon.
the commerce centre should be huge, maybe with cargo containers being hauled around. The first city commerce "room" is really great in that regard with all the cargo space underneath.
the shipyard section is fine in my opinion
ESD's interior needs to look Star Trek. The textures, the lightning, the signs (barf) are very "untrekky". And it is kind of cramped. First City offers those wide space without feeling empty or spartanic, on the contrary. As the first and most important hub for Federation players, ESD needs to be packed with recognizable Star Trek artwork which really transport the look and feel of the shows/movies (just like First City manages to do it!)
WHEN you redesign ESD, pleeeeease give Deep Space-K7 a quick pass. It's interior looks HORRIBLE. The ultimate goal would be to give it its old TOS-look (the bar, the admin's office), but due to well-known time-constraints, a quick pass will have to do (hopefully).
STOWiki admin.
Yeah, it's the same basic map - the only thing one could get nostalgic about IMO is the upstairs Club 47 lounge.
All the more reason to rebuild DS9's interior instead!
Had the TNG producers listened to Andrew Probert - who took the orginal ESD into consideration when he designed the Galaxy class - starships so large were never intended to park inside ESD at all. But to dock right under the mushroom top.
Regarding K-7, I can't think of any reason that the current interior would not fit within a scaled-to-canon exterior model. In addition, I'd place support structures nearby K-7 and Sherman's Planet. Not unlike what we have for our Fleet Starbases. Though, IMO, the interior floor plan could benefit from eliminating the need for the zig-zag corridors between sections. As well as creating an Ops (say, a Starfleet version of Ds9's Ops) area for Commander Wildman. There shouldn't be any such thing as an Admiral's Office. And, please, for Q's sake get rid of the ancient barn doors.