And without a viable means of at least *trying* to counter an attack, there is no "game" anymore.
Most games have the equivalent of a head-shot that is difficult to setup and impossible to counter but simple to defend against. In this case, the defense is some combination of cloak detection and/or movement.
ps--I dont mean to imply that there is any balance here, just that its a common mechanic
And therein lies the problem: There is no "stepping up" anymore. There's no counter to this stuff - it's just insta-death. At least with the BO double-taps and Ion attacks I could sometimes avoid destruction by quickly hitting evasive, APO, PH, and some other defensive buffs. It felt like a real "game" then - a matching of skills and wits between predator (vaper) and prey (me). I even got lucky sometimes and popped the vaper before they could escape after a failed attack.
But then I got hit with a 95K (ninety five thousand - through full shields/armor!) combo-Proton/whatever attack from you, Mini, and it all crystalized for me: There is no defense.
And without a viable means of at least *trying* to counter an attack, there is no "game" anymore.
It's just a lopsided slaughter-fest, and that's no fun for anyone...
RCK
Don't quote me on this....like I've just done you...but I hear it's going to be bent over and paddled with the nerf bat.
For a while, I enjoyed the challenge of surviving the "gank" in Ker'rat, or outsmarting Mini and Zenith in their "vaper" builds. But lately, with the endless power creep and ridiculous damage levels from proton weapons (95K through full shields and with 2x fleet neutroniums + the mark 12 borg 2-piece), it just isn't worth the effort.
I spent years grinding out ships and gear - fleet defiant/excelsior, all the Omega sets, then the fleet weapons/shield, then the embassy consoles, and now the fleet spire consoles - only to get "pwned" by 1 shot glass cannons that wouldn't last 5 seconds against me out in the open. STO has gone from a game of skill and timing to one of waiting for the next insta-vaper to roll into the war zone and then hoping he picks on someone else for a change (they never do - I've become a vape-magnet).
So, with that, I'm done with STO for a while. Here's hoping Season 9 provides some incentive to return. But for now, cya...
RCK
Emoe in his fleet Hoh'sus is do stupidly crazy 80k(110k) hits!! How is this possible?? That's only 4 tac slots and 4 guns - what the heck is this proton thingy??
Emoe in his fleet Hoh'sus is do stupidly crazy 80k(110k) hits!! How is this possible?? That's only 4 tac slots and 4 guns - what the heck is this proton thingy??
so its ok for all these a2b,dem,eptw,apb,faw cruisers to rip others apart in seconds even through rsp but its not fair for you to be vaped??? so tell me this if they take away all these vape builds would it be fair then that your cruiser can than tank 8 escorts as well as ripping them to bits with the above set of skills???, it is fair that feds have the nebula console that mixed with epta you can see our cloaked ships 20km away???.
Not so long back this forum was full of escort pilots QQ over the cruiser using the op a2b,dem,eptw,apb,faw builds and all I saw in reply to this from said users of this build was get over it and so what, now players are getting around your god mode a2b builds you don't like it?? well guess what GET OVER IT
The problem with a FAW LALAL build is it takes ZERO SKILL, to use, I used to have a signture pic for the old FAW issues that applies not but it said, "So easy a caveman could use it." Vaper builds do require skill , a little luck and quick reactions but ultimately the success of the vaper build is direct result of, as the gun community would know, tolerance stacking. Little powers here and little powers there that were put in to balance one thing, and then another so once all those "balances" are put in and come together synergistically you get something like the vaper build which was a direct result of the FAW builds taking advantage of the same thing in overcapping.
When cryptic brings a new console/power/ or improved power it needs to be tested on every ship with every combination of gear so that there are no synergistic LuLz SNAFUS like we have now. But as we know we are lucky if they test with the most commonly used gear on the most commonby used ships. They sure as hell do not listen to those that test on tribble
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
It's not the vape builds that annoy me, half the time i survive them, just ask Mini
Whats getting me is the absolute massive shield penetration damage which is going on thesedays with beams and cannons. Watching my hull go from 100% down to 0% WHILE RSP was running is what has put me off of the queues, and is now turning me away from Kerrat as well.
PVP is dead, the reason?
Cryptic.
They know what they are releasing (or at at least i hope they know what they are doing) and yet they still do it, time and time again.
The power creep in this game has made "Elite" STF's an ongoing joke. Infected Conduit is now nothing more than a DPS testing ground.
The sad thing is, back in the old days of Star Trek games for the PC, there was at least some sort of "balance". This game lost its balance a long, long time ago and here's the thing...it is now FAR too late for Cruptic to redress what has been going on without adding a substantial amount of extra hull to all ships, or nerfbatting most of the TRIBBLE which has came out over the past few seasons.
Cryptic have painted themselves into the corner. They can't get out of it now.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
It's not the vape builds that annoy me, half the time i survive them, just ask Mini
Whats getting me is the absolute massive shield penetration damage which is going on thesedays with beams and cannons. Watching my hull go from 100% down to 0% WHILE RSP was running is what has put me off of the queues, and is now turning me away from Kerrat as well.
I'd be very interested to see your build since we seem to fly the same ship (Fleet Excelsior). Do you have a link?
Also, you're spot on with the shield penetration comment. It's not just vapers. It's the Elachi TRIBBLE, the BO doffs, etc. It almost makes your choice of shield irrelevant as elite players will just blow right through it like it's not there...
I'd be very interested to see your build since we seem to fly the same ship (Fleet Excelsior). Do you have a link?
Also, you're spot on with the shield penetration comment. It's not just vapers. It's the Elachi TRIBBLE, the BO doffs, etc. It almost makes your choice of shield irrelevant as elite players will just blow right through it like it's not there...
RCK
vic hasnt been around much lately. havent had the luxury of proton stomping him. hes talkign about his resiliance vs non proton vapers. soo sooo many ion beams missed that guy(so many i stopped using it;) )
Most games have the equivalent of a head-shot that is difficult to setup and impossible to counter but simple to defend against. In this case, the defense is some combination of cloak detection and/or movement.
ps--I dont mean to imply that there is any balance here, just that its a common mechanic
Against a single BO torpedo attack your dead on. But...
I think there's been a bit of stun and well, basically an overload of "one clik vunders" type consoles that will do a player in.
Stun lock rogues were/are always the most hated. In some games they are actually a bit difficult to play. This game not so much.
Anyone in the thread that blamed the players you are correct. They are at fault for not going into a PVP zone with a team.
Seriously it is an MMO. At LEAST if you go in with a friend and get roflstomped you can group hug and have a grand ole time together. If you go in solo and get roflstomped, that's like the slow learning wilderbeest culling itself from the herd. Nothing gnu there.
I ran in shuttle arenas all last weekend and had most fun in a long time. There's still balance/bug issues but imo they're far less of an impact and the play style suits piloting and power mgt etc. That for me w/hit&run or hit&fade tactics is fun. I can see where someone who likes Cruiser tank style builds wouldn't be attracted to it though.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
No, I am sorry... thats like saying Ford is responsible for auto accidents when a kid is drag racing his mustang. Or Jim Bean should be held accountable for drunk driving...
I agree with a previous poster who stated, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
There has to be some accountability on part of the players themselves. We, the PvP Community, bring this upon ourselves by lapping up whatever new and shiney thing Cryptic puts out there for us... throwing money hand over fist to get the latest and greatest OP item. Don't kid yourself into thinking its only the PvE'ers running out to open boxes for Lobi or the new ship... in most cases I see the newest stuff surface first in PvP.
Does Cryptic share some accountability... I suppose...possibly by exploiting our fallen nature, or as a previous poster put it... our competitiveness.
The issue is not generally 1 person running a broken skill that makes or breaks a match... its a team of people running several "broken" skills that in conjunction with eachother that cause my hackles to raise, and what drives me away.
There are certain things I simply do not and will not run with... most of which are listed as banned items in most tournaments and TD matches (although these seem to be slowing as of late). I, and others before and since, suggested Code of Ethics, Conduct, etc etc etc
While these never took off... I still adhere to my own... and simply put, once I recognize a cheese/op team for what they are... I leave the queues for the night.
I don't mind being blown up (many of you here have had the pleasure of seeing my ship explode)... I don't mind losing... so please don't look at it that way... and while I am not what I would consider an Elite PvP'er... I'm no slouch either. I do mind however when people start using several broken mechanics at once to just rolfstomp.
Like I said, it isn't a SINGLE player on a team that causes this... it is when the entire team specifically specs to do this... thats not fixed by coding.
Against a single BO torpedo attack your dead on. But...
I think there's been a bit of stun and well, basically an overload of "one clik vunders" type consoles that will do a player in.
Stun lock rogues were/are always the most hated. In some games they are actually a bit difficult to play. This game not so much.
Anyone in the thread that blamed the players you are correct. They are at fault for not going into a PVP zone with a team.
Seriously it is an MMO. At LEAST if you go in with a friend and get roflstomped you can group hug and have a grand ole time together. If you go in solo and get roflstomped, that's like the slow learning wilderbeest culling itself from the herd. Nothing gnu there.
kudos for avoiding the underlying complaint from the op. how much damage is too much damage from one single attack is a discussion best left to another thread. i wont stop until i put a million on the board in one volley (600k best atm). then ill go for 2 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!
plus lets all not forget that MY one shot build is the epitome of squish, i could not literally give them a better chance to kill me barring afking uncloaked. if theres antyhgin problematic in this game its the people who DO IT RIGHT, sure they cant get the insane damage i can, but as naz says> why bother (if u r actually trying to win and not just get big numbers) and their survivability goes thru the roof
frankly itsFREESH and AWESOME that the kdf has somethign in its corner now. even just difference between 40k and 50k base proton is enough to get me playing my long dead/idle kdf toon. i claim a huge success for craptic here....
Interesting...I'd heard about cannon build Excelsiors, but yours looks like it might actually work. Would be interesting to face off with you some day just to see what kind of dmg you could do against my build.
With all those RCS and Turn-modifed consoles I bet that thing spins like a top...relatively speaking, of course.
Interesting...I'd heard about cannon build Excelsiors, but yours looks like it might actually work. Would be interesting to face off with you some day just to see what kind of dmg you could do against my build.
With all those RCS and Turn-modifed consoles I bet that thing spins like a top...relatively speaking, of course.
RCK
makes it hard to line up the shots, if u can turn a full 180 after i jump u wont take any dmg from proton (money shot)
No, I am sorry... thats like saying Ford is responsible for auto accidents when a kid is drag racing his mustang. Or Jim Bean should be held accountable for drunk driving...
Here's the thing Johnny.
I worked for a time in Interplay and then at Activision during the late 90's. I was there when games like Star Trek: Armada was on the drawing table and being planned out. These games was "old style" single/multiplay games.
Did games like Armada have issues? Yes, turret rush for one, but it was counterable. Did games like Star Trek: Starfleet Command have issues? Yes, but again, counterable. I worked in the gaming industry at a time when the industry itself put in balance and checks.
Here's another fact... if this was the 90's, or even up to 2003 when the original Star Trek games license got suspended, and Cryptic was running STO under the auspices of Activision or Interplay and this mess was getting released then Cryptic would have been SHUT DOWN...
It is Cryptics fault mainly for not doing Game Design 101, there should be at least a half counter or a full counter to any major damage dealing entity or weapon in a game. Fact is in this game for a lot of the big damage dealing weapons and kit outs...there isnt. That shows complete and utter lack of forethought to game mechanics on the part of the developer.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
I'm sorry to see you go Jacob! I'll miss the BFAW DEM hacker
But I would adapt instead of quit. But to each his own. You are a good player so just take it as a compliment that it takes a vaper to kill you
Against normal tradtional "vaper" builds there are defenses.
Against cloaked proton barage there is no defense.
The one thing in the game more broken the faw right now is proton barage. Its a stupid mechanic. I have not idea what cryptic was smoking when they created it.
The OP is willing to fly around and try to tank double taps and all the other gimmick builds with ion beams and stacked click consoles.
At least as stupid as it is most of that stuff can be defended. Ion beam doesn't really do big dmg unless it gets its negative charge proc... and iso requires multiple targets and wise firing somewhat... Still easy mode to me... but at least it takes some skill.
Lets be honest PB takes zero skill... less then building and using a proper faw setup.
Its a vapers dream skill I guess I don't blame people for using it, I blame Cryptic for thinking it was a good idea.
6 kilometer Range; 90 degree Cone
0.5 sec activate
1 min 30 sec recharge
to target: 3,422 Proton damage (ignores shields) {this is base not counting full aux ect}
100% chance to strip one buff
50% chance to strip one buff
25% chance to strip one buff
I mean look at that... we all know what happens if you pop every buff you have and run a few proton dmg buff consoles your golden. Like I have said I used it for awhile to try it out... and the first time I saw a player take a 70kk hit to there hull and go boom, I realized it was BS and changed my build. lol
No, I am sorry... thats like saying Ford is responsible for auto accidents when a kid is drag racing his mustang. Or Jim Bean should be held accountable for drunk driving...
Well, that's real life, with real human beings.
Drag racing in the streets is (usually) against the law, Drunk driving is against the law.
When people break those rules they can be caught and dealt with, and possibly go to prison.
This is a game, like a sport, or a board game and the games are dictated by the rules of the designers.
We are their mercy for the rules they do or do not implement, for the gear the implement.
It's their environment, we just play in it.
Football, Soccer, Rugby, Ice Hockey, Basketball - anything that players/teams can get away with without outright breaking they do.
That's competition, that's the reality of human nature.
When something is bad for the game, usually the organizations that control those games step in and make changes to a rule.
That's what a lot of us always hope Cryptic will do, but that's not the business they're in.
Absolving cryptic of even the tiniest fraction tastes like Stockholm syndrome.
plus lets all not forget that MY one shot build is the epitome of squish, i could not literally give them a better chance to kill me barring afking uncloaked. if theres antyhgin problematic in this game its the people who DO IT RIGHT, sure they cant get the insane damage i can, but as naz says> why bother (if u r actually trying to win and not just get big numbers) and their survivability goes thru the roof
Let's not forget a lot of those guys are vaping in premades against coordinated resistance, teams running coordinated grav well spam, subnuc <playername> target binds with subspace jump consoles, and not cruisers FAWing borg cubes for loot.
So yeah, premade vapers have to build for some element of survivability or the whole team loses.
i.e. Not kirk play.
The people "doing it right" are doing it in a completely different environment with a completely different purpose.
I have no issue with you doing it your way in the environment you do it in - but I think you sometimes forget the rest of variables doing it in arena matches.
Sorry if this came off as harsh, but you seemed to want this one.
First of all, quitting PVP or Star Trek Online alltogether is not a bad thing. There are so many other ways to spend your time better, even if its just another, better balanced computer game.
PVP in this game just is what is is. It won't bow down to you. For a lot of PVP'ers, "winning" against other competitors is the driving force, for some the desire for this feeling is excessively and unhealthly strong. If you are saying PVP isn't fun to you anymore, then it is probably time to re-evaluate your expectations in the first place, or to explore new paths of playstyle that might restore the success level you are accustomed to.
Success, or winning, creates a sense of entitlement. Most are not even aware of it. And sometimes people react emotionally when they are being denied of things they feel entitled to have or to experience. It is easy to point your finger at noobs, however sometimes not even years of PVP experience does make you resistent against this distorted perception. Trust me I've met some very strange cases over time.
Now, regarding "skill": Granted I don't know anything about Proton Barrage since it got introduced after I left STO. So what I am saying now maybe doesn't apply for the newest developments regarding vapes. But I'd ask following questions: Can it used while in cloak? What is the reach of PB? What is the activation time?
Having said that, I am one of those crazy ones who maintained a very unhealthy of amount of toons. Not for grinding riches though, but for the ability to explore every single niche build and strategy pathway that the game has to offer. As an example, I have got a a standard tac escort, I've got 2 different vapers, a torp tac, a tac specialized in exotic damage, and FAW boats. And thats just my tacs. As a side-effect of testing, probing, playing around with all those builds, one can notice that some build require more skill than others. And some builds are simply more effective in terms of NOT requiring as much skill.
FAW A2B builds are definitly the easiest way to experience success (especially Scimitars). There is a disconnect between player skill required and net effectivness of these kind of builds. It's just to easy to achieve good results with FAW. Vapers are more demanding, they have a higher degree of difficulty if you will. A self-serving assertion would be to claim it to be the other way around. (PB excluded for now, since I haven't looked into it yet)
Regarding balance: There was a certain period of time, where people could tweak one single build and/or team setups to achieve an almost 100% success rate. Even to this date, many experienced players and whole teams are trying to find the one and only holy grale, a generalized build/setup that beats everything. But these times are over. Ad-hoc solutions will beat generalized approaches on principle. Try not to cling on a certain build or playstyle. Try not to beat paper with rock. Turn the tables by using scissor instead.
And suddenly you'll find that it will be the vaper players who will do the raging and the complaining on the forums. If they do complain, tell them they are not entitled to win.
Even with my own vaper, I find I want to play it less and less the more I feel pushed towards using one-shot clicky powers.
For the lack of better terms, it lacks interactivity. It's a more passive playstyle, you are only playing in "bursts". Don't get me wrong, I have a vaper, and it is a very mean one too, however I prefer jumping into other ships for the reasons I just stated, even if it means that it lessens the probabilitiy of victory (a.k.a. **** I got nuked). :P
Yeah, that's almost exactly what I was looking at for the DSD. It's on a Sci toon, so missing out on APA and GDF, but I think that with Scan and the additional boosts to proton it will be interesting if nothing else.
Yeah, that's almost exactly what I was looking at for the DSD. It's on a Sci toon, so missing out on APA and GDF, but I think that with Scan and the additional boosts to proton it will be interesting if nothing else.
Scan, SNB, some Photonic and Nimbus confusion thrown in...
...curious what the 3packs will look like, as far as what BOFF layouts they're going to offer and the rest.
But those Rom Zen DSDs with Battle Cloaks...yeah...hrmm...
Against normal tradtional "vaper" builds there are defenses.
Against cloaked proton barage there is no defense.
The one thing in the game more broken the faw right now is proton barage. Its a stupid mechanic. I have not idea what cryptic was smoking when they created it.
The OP is willing to fly around and try to tank double taps and all the other gimmick builds with ion beams and stacked click consoles.
At least as stupid as it is most of that stuff can be defended. Ion beam doesn't really do big dmg unless it gets its negative charge proc... and iso requires multiple targets and wise firing somewhat... Still easy mode to me... but at least it takes some skill.
Lets be honest PB takes zero skill... less then building and using a proper faw setup.
Its a vapers dream skill I guess I don't blame people for using it, I blame Cryptic for thinking it was a good idea.
6 kilometer Range; 90 degree Cone
0.5 sec activate
1 min 30 sec recharge
to target: 3,422 Proton damage (ignores shields) {this is base not counting full aux ect}
100% chance to strip one buff
50% chance to strip one buff
25% chance to strip one buff
I mean look at that... we all know what happens if you pop every buff you have and run a few proton dmg buff consoles your golden. Like I have said I used it for awhile to try it out... and the first time I saw a player take a 70kk hit to there hull and go boom, I realized it was BS and changed my build. lol
spirit of stardagger returned? i havent heard such vitriolic hate for my style of play since he died.
if its so easy how come u arent doing it? i keep seeign fail 30k crits from the most "leet" (self proclaimed) pvpers around. im afraid ive yet to see many milk a gdf turn around and bring 100k pain base dmg alpha. its actually pathetic that u dont even need barrage, all u need is bo doff proc and 2 dhc crits. let alone tetrion cascade, iso, etc. but this isnt about the potential of damage dealign powers in the game. this is about PEOPLE QUITTING BECUS THEY LOST
too bad i didnt phone it in the last year when my kdf was perpetually outshined, outgunned, and outclassed by roms. TOO BAD FOR YOU
Comments
ps--I dont mean to imply that there is any balance here, just that its a common mechanic
People are upset to see Rck go, your departure would probably cause spontaneous parties throughout the galaxy.
Don't quote me on this....like I've just done you...but I hear it's going to be bent over and paddled with the nerf bat.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Emoe in his fleet Hoh'sus is do stupidly crazy 80k(110k) hits!! How is this possible?? That's only 4 tac slots and 4 guns - what the heck is this proton thingy??
it is GOLD muwhahaha
The problem with a FAW LALAL build is it takes ZERO SKILL, to use, I used to have a signture pic for the old FAW issues that applies not but it said, "So easy a caveman could use it." Vaper builds do require skill , a little luck and quick reactions but ultimately the success of the vaper build is direct result of, as the gun community would know, tolerance stacking. Little powers here and little powers there that were put in to balance one thing, and then another so once all those "balances" are put in and come together synergistically you get something like the vaper build which was a direct result of the FAW builds taking advantage of the same thing in overcapping.
When cryptic brings a new console/power/ or improved power it needs to be tested on every ship with every combination of gear so that there are no synergistic LuLz SNAFUS like we have now. But as we know we are lucky if they test with the most commonly used gear on the most commonby used ships. They sure as hell do not listen to those that test on tribble
Whats getting me is the absolute massive shield penetration damage which is going on thesedays with beams and cannons. Watching my hull go from 100% down to 0% WHILE RSP was running is what has put me off of the queues, and is now turning me away from Kerrat as well.
PVP is dead, the reason?
Cryptic.
They know what they are releasing (or at at least i hope they know what they are doing) and yet they still do it, time and time again.
The power creep in this game has made "Elite" STF's an ongoing joke. Infected Conduit is now nothing more than a DPS testing ground.
The sad thing is, back in the old days of Star Trek games for the PC, there was at least some sort of "balance". This game lost its balance a long, long time ago and here's the thing...it is now FAR too late for Cruptic to redress what has been going on without adding a substantial amount of extra hull to all ships, or nerfbatting most of the TRIBBLE which has came out over the past few seasons.
Cryptic have painted themselves into the corner. They can't get out of it now.
I'd be very interested to see your build since we seem to fly the same ship (Fleet Excelsior). Do you have a link?
Also, you're spot on with the shield penetration comment. It's not just vapers. It's the Elachi TRIBBLE, the BO doffs, etc. It almost makes your choice of shield irrelevant as elite players will just blow right through it like it's not there...
RCK
vic hasnt been around much lately. havent had the luxury of proton stomping him. hes talkign about his resiliance vs non proton vapers. soo sooo many ion beams missed that guy(so many i stopped using it;) )
In STF's i replace it with rom plasma beams.
Against a single BO torpedo attack your dead on. But...
I think there's been a bit of stun and well, basically an overload of "one clik vunders" type consoles that will do a player in.
Stun lock rogues were/are always the most hated. In some games they are actually a bit difficult to play. This game not so much.
Anyone in the thread that blamed the players you are correct. They are at fault for not going into a PVP zone with a team.
Seriously it is an MMO. At LEAST if you go in with a friend and get roflstomped you can group hug and have a grand ole time together. If you go in solo and get roflstomped, that's like the slow learning wilderbeest culling itself from the herd. Nothing gnu there.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
No, I am sorry... thats like saying Ford is responsible for auto accidents when a kid is drag racing his mustang. Or Jim Bean should be held accountable for drunk driving...
I agree with a previous poster who stated, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
There has to be some accountability on part of the players themselves. We, the PvP Community, bring this upon ourselves by lapping up whatever new and shiney thing Cryptic puts out there for us... throwing money hand over fist to get the latest and greatest OP item. Don't kid yourself into thinking its only the PvE'ers running out to open boxes for Lobi or the new ship... in most cases I see the newest stuff surface first in PvP.
Does Cryptic share some accountability... I suppose...possibly by exploiting our fallen nature, or as a previous poster put it... our competitiveness.
The issue is not generally 1 person running a broken skill that makes or breaks a match... its a team of people running several "broken" skills that in conjunction with eachother that cause my hackles to raise, and what drives me away.
There are certain things I simply do not and will not run with... most of which are listed as banned items in most tournaments and TD matches (although these seem to be slowing as of late). I, and others before and since, suggested Code of Ethics, Conduct, etc etc etc
While these never took off... I still adhere to my own... and simply put, once I recognize a cheese/op team for what they are... I leave the queues for the night.
I don't mind being blown up (many of you here have had the pleasure of seeing my ship explode)... I don't mind losing... so please don't look at it that way... and while I am not what I would consider an Elite PvP'er... I'm no slouch either. I do mind however when people start using several broken mechanics at once to just rolfstomp.
Like I said, it isn't a SINGLE player on a team that causes this... it is when the entire team specifically specs to do this... thats not fixed by coding.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Undeniably sound logic.
kudos for avoiding the underlying complaint from the op. how much damage is too much damage from one single attack is a discussion best left to another thread. i wont stop until i put a million on the board in one volley (600k best atm). then ill go for 2 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!
plus lets all not forget that MY one shot build is the epitome of squish, i could not literally give them a better chance to kill me barring afking uncloaked. if theres antyhgin problematic in this game its the people who DO IT RIGHT, sure they cant get the insane damage i can, but as naz says> why bother (if u r actually trying to win and not just get big numbers) and their survivability goes thru the roof
frankly itsFREESH and AWESOME that the kdf has somethign in its corner now. even just difference between 40k and 50k base proton is enough to get me playing my long dead/idle kdf toon. i claim a huge success for craptic here....
Interesting...I'd heard about cannon build Excelsiors, but yours looks like it might actually work. Would be interesting to face off with you some day just to see what kind of dmg you could do against my build.
With all those RCS and Turn-modifed consoles I bet that thing spins like a top...relatively speaking, of course.
RCK
makes it hard to line up the shots, if u can turn a full 180 after i jump u wont take any dmg from proton (money shot)
i said too much! eep
Here's the thing Johnny.
I worked for a time in Interplay and then at Activision during the late 90's. I was there when games like Star Trek: Armada was on the drawing table and being planned out. These games was "old style" single/multiplay games.
Did games like Armada have issues? Yes, turret rush for one, but it was counterable. Did games like Star Trek: Starfleet Command have issues? Yes, but again, counterable. I worked in the gaming industry at a time when the industry itself put in balance and checks.
Here's another fact... if this was the 90's, or even up to 2003 when the original Star Trek games license got suspended, and Cryptic was running STO under the auspices of Activision or Interplay and this mess was getting released then Cryptic would have been SHUT DOWN...
It is Cryptics fault mainly for not doing Game Design 101, there should be at least a half counter or a full counter to any major damage dealing entity or weapon in a game. Fact is in this game for a lot of the big damage dealing weapons and kit outs...there isnt. That shows complete and utter lack of forethought to game mechanics on the part of the developer.
But I would adapt instead of quit. But to each his own. You are a good player so just take it as a compliment that it takes a vaper to kill you
Against normal tradtional "vaper" builds there are defenses.
Against cloaked proton barage there is no defense.
The one thing in the game more broken the faw right now is proton barage. Its a stupid mechanic. I have not idea what cryptic was smoking when they created it.
The OP is willing to fly around and try to tank double taps and all the other gimmick builds with ion beams and stacked click consoles.
At least as stupid as it is most of that stuff can be defended. Ion beam doesn't really do big dmg unless it gets its negative charge proc... and iso requires multiple targets and wise firing somewhat... Still easy mode to me... but at least it takes some skill.
Lets be honest PB takes zero skill... less then building and using a proper faw setup.
Its a vapers dream skill I guess I don't blame people for using it, I blame Cryptic for thinking it was a good idea.
6 kilometer Range; 90 degree Cone
0.5 sec activate
1 min 30 sec recharge
to target: 3,422 Proton damage (ignores shields) {this is base not counting full aux ect}
100% chance to strip one buff
50% chance to strip one buff
25% chance to strip one buff
I mean look at that... we all know what happens if you pop every buff you have and run a few proton dmg buff consoles your golden. Like I have said I used it for awhile to try it out... and the first time I saw a player take a 70kk hit to there hull and go boom, I realized it was BS and changed my build. lol
Well, that's real life, with real human beings.
Drag racing in the streets is (usually) against the law, Drunk driving is against the law.
When people break those rules they can be caught and dealt with, and possibly go to prison.
This is a game, like a sport, or a board game and the games are dictated by the rules of the designers.
We are their mercy for the rules they do or do not implement, for the gear the implement.
It's their environment, we just play in it.
Football, Soccer, Rugby, Ice Hockey, Basketball - anything that players/teams can get away with without outright breaking they do.
That's competition, that's the reality of human nature.
When something is bad for the game, usually the organizations that control those games step in and make changes to a rule.
That's what a lot of us always hope Cryptic will do, but that's not the business they're in.
Absolving cryptic of even the tiniest fraction tastes like Stockholm syndrome.
Let's not forget a lot of those guys are vaping in premades against coordinated resistance, teams running coordinated grav well spam, subnuc <playername> target binds with subspace jump consoles, and not cruisers FAWing borg cubes for loot.
So yeah, premade vapers have to build for some element of survivability or the whole team loses.
i.e. Not kirk play.
The people "doing it right" are doing it in a completely different environment with a completely different purpose.
I have no issue with you doing it your way in the environment you do it in - but I think you sometimes forget the rest of variables doing it in arena matches.
Sorry if this came off as harsh, but you seemed to want this one.
Solanae Secondary Deflector
Dyson Combat Engines
Dyson Regenerative Shield Array
Dyson Field Stabilizing Singularity Core
Solanae Dual Heavy Proton Cannon
Experimental Proton Weapon
Gravimetric Photon Torpedo Launcher
Protonic Polaron Dual Heavy Cannon
3x Protonic Polaron Turret
Proton Particle Stabilzer
Protonic Shield Matrix
Shield Inversion Projector
Proton Destabilizer Module
Bioneural Infusion Circuits
Plasmonic Leech
Enhanced Neutronium Alloy [+HullHP]
3x Auto Targeting Module [+Pol]
Advanced Targeting Systems, Tactical Advantage
Precision, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation
Enhanced Shield Penetration, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense, Refracting Tetryon Cascade
Omega Weapon Training, Superior Shield Repair
PVP in this game just is what is is. It won't bow down to you. For a lot of PVP'ers, "winning" against other competitors is the driving force, for some the desire for this feeling is excessively and unhealthly strong. If you are saying PVP isn't fun to you anymore, then it is probably time to re-evaluate your expectations in the first place, or to explore new paths of playstyle that might restore the success level you are accustomed to.
Success, or winning, creates a sense of entitlement. Most are not even aware of it. And sometimes people react emotionally when they are being denied of things they feel entitled to have or to experience. It is easy to point your finger at noobs, however sometimes not even years of PVP experience does make you resistent against this distorted perception. Trust me I've met some very strange cases over time.
Now, regarding "skill": Granted I don't know anything about Proton Barrage since it got introduced after I left STO. So what I am saying now maybe doesn't apply for the newest developments regarding vapes. But I'd ask following questions: Can it used while in cloak? What is the reach of PB? What is the activation time?
Having said that, I am one of those crazy ones who maintained a very unhealthy of amount of toons. Not for grinding riches though, but for the ability to explore every single niche build and strategy pathway that the game has to offer. As an example, I have got a a standard tac escort, I've got 2 different vapers, a torp tac, a tac specialized in exotic damage, and FAW boats. And thats just my tacs. As a side-effect of testing, probing, playing around with all those builds, one can notice that some build require more skill than others. And some builds are simply more effective in terms of NOT requiring as much skill.
FAW A2B builds are definitly the easiest way to experience success (especially Scimitars). There is a disconnect between player skill required and net effectivness of these kind of builds. It's just to easy to achieve good results with FAW. Vapers are more demanding, they have a higher degree of difficulty if you will. A self-serving assertion would be to claim it to be the other way around. (PB excluded for now, since I haven't looked into it yet)
Regarding balance: There was a certain period of time, where people could tweak one single build and/or team setups to achieve an almost 100% success rate. Even to this date, many experienced players and whole teams are trying to find the one and only holy grale, a generalized build/setup that beats everything. But these times are over. Ad-hoc solutions will beat generalized approaches on principle. Try not to cling on a certain build or playstyle. Try not to beat paper with rock. Turn the tables by using scissor instead.
And suddenly you'll find that it will be the vaper players who will do the raging and the complaining on the forums. If they do complain, tell them they are not entitled to win.
For the lack of better terms, it lacks interactivity. It's a more passive playstyle, you are only playing in "bursts". Don't get me wrong, I have a vaper, and it is a very mean one too, however I prefer jumping into other ships for the reasons I just stated, even if it means that it lessens the probabilitiy of victory (a.k.a. **** I got nuked). :P
Yeah, that's almost exactly what I was looking at for the DSD. It's on a Sci toon, so missing out on APA and GDF, but I think that with Scan and the additional boosts to proton it will be interesting if nothing else.
Scan, SNB, some Photonic and Nimbus confusion thrown in...
...curious what the 3packs will look like, as far as what BOFF layouts they're going to offer and the rest.
But those Rom Zen DSDs with Battle Cloaks...yeah...hrmm...
spirit of stardagger returned? i havent heard such vitriolic hate for my style of play since he died.
if its so easy how come u arent doing it? i keep seeign fail 30k crits from the most "leet" (self proclaimed) pvpers around. im afraid ive yet to see many milk a gdf turn around and bring 100k pain base dmg alpha. its actually pathetic that u dont even need barrage, all u need is bo doff proc and 2 dhc crits. let alone tetrion cascade, iso, etc. but this isnt about the potential of damage dealign powers in the game. this is about PEOPLE QUITTING BECUS THEY LOST
too bad i didnt phone it in the last year when my kdf was perpetually outshined, outgunned, and outclassed by roms. TOO BAD FOR YOU