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Anyone else feel defeated?

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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    luvsto1701 wrote: »
    What I have recently discovered is that the devs do not listen, they do not care, and they are not going to change anything.

    Due to turnover on staff, a lot of the code really can't be tinkered with effectively. So changes can't happen because the people who created it aren't there and the people who are there may break more than they fix, so change is slow and tiny.

    This is not the Cryptic team mentality that I fell in love with from City of Heroes. Those guys provided freedom and choices.

    Those guys are long gone.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    ROFL!!! Cryptic's mentality for City of Heroes was to sell it off as fast as possible so they could start over with Champions.

    It was Marvel they were making. Which eventually BECAME Champions.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Do I feel defeated?

    No.

    Disappointed? Sometimes for sure.

    Delighted? Also sometimes for sure.

    Discouraged? Well, we all do sometimes, but thats what courage is for.....to fill the gap between discouraged and encouraged.

    But defeated? *%$ that.

    You're only defeated when you say you are.
  • gonjaagonjaa Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I don't expect to play a game and get everything I want when I post an idea on the forums.

    I'm not that deluded, self-centred or egotistical.

    I do however enjoy the game which is why I play and if I didn't enjoy the game, I would play another
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • abystander0abystander0 Member Posts: 649 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    luvsto1701 wrote: »
    I have recently started posting on these forums and I wish I hadn't come here.

    What I have recently discovered is that the devs do not listen, they do not care, and they are not going to change anything.

    There are so many posts asking for the refine dil cap removal and they won't do it. There are many posts everywhere asking for restrictions to be lifted on male clothing pieces, ships we will never see, changing colors of our visual weapons ship/ground.

    New innovations and some outstanding foundry expanding ideas that sound amazing, left unanswered.

    This is not the Cryptic team mentality that I fell in love with from City of Heroes. Those guys provided freedom and choices.

    Is it all some PWE mentality now that I never saw coming?

    Most MMOs have a Dev tracker section and you can see where Devs are listening, it's disabled on these forums?

    I guess I have been fighting it too long and between the lack of Devs caring and the outstanding forum trolls here, I just really feel like this whole situation has become an oppressive environment.

    Does anyone else feel like this?

    Nope.

    You have to take into consideration that some things, that Devs can't talk about. Also, they have to be careful about what they DO say, because all too often people will take what was said out of context and blow it out of proportion. This forum that you lament about has done a stellar job of throttling possible developer feedback on player ideas thanks to it, not to mention the outright hostility toward them by a minority of posters.

    They DO care, and they listen. But they also have metrics other than the forums that help them to determine what changes need to be made. Datamining shows them hard numbers, while here you get opinions, and desires. They have to balance those, and many times what you desire, may be detrimental to the game.

    There is also the resource issue. Cryptic does not have unlimited resources. Even seemingly simple things can devour time and effort that might be better utilized elsewhere.
    They get deluged with requests for all sorts of things. Many of which are not practical.

    Just because what you want isn't being addressed right away or isn't a hot button issue, does not mean that the developers are not listening.

    You are one voice in a crowd, and everyone wants to be heard.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Here's the thing. If the devs attempted to do EVERYTHING the players wanted, we'd have a game that couldn't be played.

    OP, there will be no tier 5 constitution. No tier 5 enterpise-a. Hell won't even be an Exeter/Vesper/Excaliber class which the latter 3 I consider BS.

    But it's not going to happen, whining about it won't change a thing.
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  • thekirklivesthekirklives Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    Here's the thing. If the devs attempted to do EVERYTHING the players wanted, we'd have a game that couldn't be played.

    OP, there will be no tier 5 constitution. No tier 5 enterpise-a. Hell won't even be an Exeter/Vesper/Excaliber class which the latter 3 I consider BS.

    But it's not going to happen, whining about it won't change a thing.
    Yes, I agree that the devs do listen but there is also a schedule, project list and plans that are in place months in advance. That's why those who want it need to keep fighting for the Tier 5 Constitution Class Retro-Refit Project to get put on that schedule and added to that project list! :)
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    luvsto1701 wrote: »
    I have recently started posting on these forums and I wish I hadn't come here.

    What I have recently discovered is that the devs do not listen, they do not care, and they are not going to change anything.

    ....

    Does anyone else feel like this?

    Its a simple, sad fact: PWE is a Chinese company that specializes in low maintainance, f2p/p2w micro transaction model. As such, ALL of their games are literally failed/failing games that they buy up cheap and turn into the same cookie-cutter (Dps-centric) type of game to sell upgrades that enhance the dps meta.

    Cryptic can't do anything to improve the game in the way the players ask for... PWE is their lord and master and we are nothing more than cows to milk.

    Just look at what they did to science since F2P. A fully functional, stand alone, balanced class turned into a useless POS for years and only recently is being given more dps (but not more science or science fixes...you cant sell that much upgrades for it) to bring sales up for a little bit.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    luvsto1701 wrote: »
    There are so many posts asking for the refine dil cap removal and they won't do it. There are many posts everywhere asking for restrictions to be lifted on male clothing pieces, ships we will never see, changing colors of our visual weapons ship/ground.
    Because the opinion of a few players, most of them having no experience at all in gaming development or in handling a company, is always true.

    I'll give you a single example on why the refinement cap removal is the worst idea one can think. Some people play more, some less, we all know that. Some people will make 10K+dil per day. They would spend a lot of dilithium to buy zen, and the zen price would go up (less zen available, more dil). In the end, only the most hardcore player would be able to have enough "free" zen to buy anything from the shop, while most player would not.
    Now, I'll give you a way to circumvent the dil cap. Reroll. Then, trade your dil with the dil/zen exchange.


    As for ships we will never see, most of them are hold back by CBS. CBS say no, Cryptic say no. Simple as that. If, for some stupid reason, they suddenly decided to go against CBS, they'll go to the court, and pay a fine, at best. At worst, and more likely, they'll loose the ST license, and would have to stop the game.


    Now, that's just 2 examples. And that's why they are paid for this job, have experience, and have probably done some school related to that in the past. They don't come to you when you are working and tell you how you should work, do they ?
    Doesn't mean they can't make mistakes, but it's less likely than with anyone else on this forum.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • redz4twredz4tw Member Posts: 3
    edited February 2014
    Do the Devs listen? Of course they do. That doesn't mean that they will agree or will even be capabale of making all the changes people ask for.

    There have been a lot of times that peoples feed back from the forums has been listened to and changes made because of it. But for the times that doesn't happen, well we don't know what is going on behind the scenes. There maybe very good reasons why they don't.

    PWE/Cryptic want to make a game that is both fun for the player and profitable for them and that is a sometimes a very fine line to walk, so no not everything that the players want can (or sometimes even should) make it into the game.
    This. Not everyone gets what they want. When I first started posting on the forums, I was a selfish player who thought this dev team was the worst ever. I've come to realize that we actually have a pretty awesome dev team, and this is a pretty awesome game. Not everything everyone wants will be implemented but hey, you can't make the world happy.
  • kantazo1kantazo1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I don't think that many players feel defeated but more like it like FRUSTRATED.
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  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    The devs do listen. And they do care. But they're a small team and they're limited in what they can do.

    It's easy to be cynical about bugs that- from our perspective- look like they'd be easy to fix. And frankly, it's inexcusable that some bugs have gone un-fixed for months or years.

    However, PWE is calling the shots. And PWE wants $$$ above all else.
  • luvsto1701luvsto1701 Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It was early when I posted this, and I hadn't had any coffee.

    I never clicked on the dev tracker cause it always appeared to be empty. Was quite shocked to see things in there.

    And for the record, I will always post suggestions on ways we can possibly get a Enterprise model that has more weapon slots than a science vessel.

    I think what was going on in my head was the massive amount of trolling and just general rude people's replies. I guess I had never really encountered this much before.
  • aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    luvsto1701 wrote: »
    This is not the Cryptic team mentality that I fell in love with from City of Heroes. Those guys provided freedom and choices.

    Those guys also weren't under the restraint of working with a 50-year-old IP with its own canon, multiple movies and TV series, and a parent company placing restrictions (no Tier 5 Constitution, for one example) on them. It's easy to be freewheeling when you're working on your own IP and are allowed to make things up as you go with the sky as your limit.

    Then throw in PWE making demands from the other direction (Make us mo' money, mo' money, mo' money!) and they're kind of in that "rock and a hard place" paradigm. ;)
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,457 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    For all those who keep wanting to compare this game (or any other currently-running game) with City of Heroes, there's one basic fact you seem to conveniently forget:

    City of Heroes is gone. Star Trek Online is not. Perhaps that means they're doing something right, and you're just not giving them the credit that's due?

    Just a thought...
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  • jockey1979jockey1979 Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    For all those who keep wanting to compare this game (or any other currently-running game) with City of Heroes, there's one basic fact you seem to conveniently forget:

    City of Heroes is gone. Star Trek Online is not. Perhaps that means they're doing something right, and you're just not giving them the credit that's due?

    Just a thought...

    May I borrow this for my new sig please ? :)
  • luvsto1701luvsto1701 Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    For all those who keep wanting to compare this game (or any other currently-running game) with City of Heroes, there's one basic fact you seem to conveniently forget:

    City of Heroes is gone. Star Trek Online is not. Perhaps that means they're doing something right, and you're just not giving them the credit that's due?

    Just a thought...

    I will always compare this to CoH. The customization options in CoH were staggering. I could literally spend hours designing costumes and they came out looking amazing.

    There are some decent customizations in STO but I feel they could improve and absolutely add more sleek designs versus boxy designs.

    There are hordes of unused Trek ground costumes out there that I hope they will add to the game as well.
  • spacegoatcx#8996 spacegoatcx Member Posts: 175 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You sound really self entitled, so it's not really any wonder no one listens to you.

    Now, sit back, realize the game does not belong to you, and enjoy it.
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  • contrarydecisioncontrarydecision Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    lerpyderp wrote: »
    You sound really self entitled, so it's not really any wonder no one listens to you.

    Now, sit back, realize the game does not belong to you, and enjoy it.

    Definitely entitled and self-centered. What he wants for the game sure as hell isn't what everyone wants.
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Honestly I wonder sometimes myself. Like the serious problems with the rest of the sci skills still waiting on that one, or how about the race change haven't seen anything about that either. I get trolled alot because people automatically jump on the "OMGWTFNOTFORPVP!" bandwagon and I'm not even talking about PVP. Maybe this has happened to your posts?

    I've got plenty of experience with these people some of them don't even read the thread just the title and then react.

    I've often wondered if the devs listen also because there are just major holes in the ui system, in the kits, in some of the services for the store.

    One of the threads I posted about was about race change and why i felt it was important especially after so many years. I have items on my main that I cannot replace if I were to start a new toon because they may never be available again. This game isn't an ALL RP game it's filled with people from all over but the "hardcore" crowd and the "RP" crowd want to keep everything 1999 in design and forget what the rest of us need. Honestly if they don't want race change they don't have to use it but make it available for the rest of us. No mmo ever had a very long shelf life by being stuck in the past.

    If they are listening to anyone it's certainly not the forums so I think maybe we should look into occupying their FB page or even twitter maybe?
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    One of the threads I posted about was about race change and why i felt it was important especially after so many years. I have items on my main that I cannot replace if I were to start a new toon because they may never be available again. This game isn't an ALL RP game it's filled with people from all over but the "hardcore" crowd and the "RP" crowd want to keep everything 1999 in design and forget what the rest of us need. Honestly if they don't want race change they don't have to use it but make it available for the rest of us. No mmo ever had a very long shelf life by being stuck in the past.

    If they are listening to anyone it's certainly not the forums so I think maybe we should look into occupying their FB page or even twitter maybe?
    I guess it was not your thread where Borticus gave an answer as to why a Race change will not happen. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    When the game launched we could change the color of our energy weapons. This gave CBS an aneurysm. They nerfed and the forums erupted in flames.
  • shurato2099shurato2099 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    For all those who keep wanting to compare this game (or any other currently-running game) with City of Heroes, there's one basic fact you seem to conveniently forget:

    City of Heroes is gone. Star Trek Online is not. Perhaps that means they're doing something right, and you're just not giving them the credit that's due?

    Just a thought...

    City of Heroes had a good long run, over 8 years, and Cryptic basically split when NCSoft took over. Some of the devs at the time stayed with the game and helped found Paragon Studios while others stayed with Cryptic.

    Under NCSoft and Paragon Studios the CoH game had some of it's most impressive development, had a strong community and it was profitable right up until the end ... just not profitable -enough- for NCSoft. It was steady but it wasn't blowing the doors off of anything.

    STO is a younger game that, along with Champions Online, saw Cryptic go through some rocky times with Atari and now settled in with PWE. It was Atari not putting funds into the game that gave us that nice, long content drought a couple of years ago as you may recall. Under Atari there was the very real possibility of all of Cryptic's games closing down if they hadn't been sold off to PWE.

    So I wouldn't say that CoH was any worse than STO, IMO it had a better community built up, it's just that Cryptic has had a bit better luck in keeping the lights on. There's nothing to say that in another 4 years PWE might not do to STO the same thing that NCSoft did to CoH.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    luvsto1701 wrote: »
    I have recently started posting on these forums and I wish I hadn't come here.

    What I have recently discovered is that the devs do not listen, they do not care, and they are not going to change anything.

    There are so many posts asking for the refine dil cap removal and they won't do it. There are many posts everywhere asking for restrictions to be lifted on male clothing pieces, ships we will never see, changing colors of our visual weapons ship/ground.

    New innovations and some outstanding foundry expanding ideas that sound amazing, left unanswered.

    This is not the Cryptic team mentality that I fell in love with from City of Heroes. Those guys provided freedom and choices.

    Is it all some PWE mentality now that I never saw coming?

    Most MMOs have a Dev tracker section and you can see where Devs are listening, it's disabled on these forums?

    I guess I have been fighting it too long and between the lack of Devs caring and the outstanding forum trolls here, I just really feel like this whole situation has become an oppressive environment.

    Does anyone else feel like this?

    there are some things they can do, IE we asked for more ship slots an we got more ship slots, and there are other things that I am sure are under consideration but there are other things that I cant see ever happening, like the dilithium refine cap that is closely linked to the zen/dil exchange rate and like any economy must be managed very closely.
    at the moment you can get 1zen for about 130-140dil but if the cap was raised you could end up with a state where the rate would be 1zen = 1300-1500dil or even more, this would be catastrophic for most players.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • platewearingbirdplatewearingbird Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I like how point #1 that proves the devs don't care is them refusing to remove the dil cap, though several points can be made to explain why they won't.

    OP is yet just another "give me what I think I'm entitled to or you're meanies that don't listen" forum goers.

    CONGRATS! Your assimilation is complete!
  • anothervisitoranothervisitor Member Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    luvsto1701 wrote: »
    There are so many posts asking for the refine dil cap removal and they won't do it.
    There are many posts everywhere asking for restrictions to be lifted on male clothing pieces, ships we will never see, changing colors of our visual weapons ship/ground.

    As much as I hate the dil cap, I do understand why it is there. From a commercial viewpoint it is not interesting that players get everything they want instantly. Then the game will burn out and lose players. If players get all that good stuff too fast, they might lose interest in playing the game. They need to be kept busy and interested till the devs can roll out the next season. That's not just on STO, but in every MMO out there.

    Restrictions on male clothing pieces? Do you mean crossdressing? I can understand that some people might have a problem with it and CBS would never allow that either I think. I don't think I've seen anything like that on the TV-shows either, unless it is some sort of a joke on the holodeck or something like that.

    As stated before, the TOS Constellation can not be upgraded to T5, and that is a CBS decision, not Cryptic's or PWE's. The same probably applies to the Galaxy class from TNG.

    Changing your ship's weapons would make things very confusing as people would no longer be able to see what weapon is firing at them. Most of the weapons from the shows retained their original colors in the game.
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  • askrayaskray Member Posts: 3,329 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    As much as I hate the dil cap, I do understand why it is there. From a commercial viewpoint it is not interesting that players get everything they want instantly. Then the game will burn out and lose players. If players get all that good stuff too fast, they might lose interest in playing the game. They need to be kept busy and interested till the devs can roll out the next season. That's not just on STO, but in every MMO out there.

    Restrictions on male clothing pieces? Do you mean crossdressing? I can understand that some people might have a problem with it and CBS would never allow that either I think. I don't think I've seen anything like that on the TV-shows either, unless it is some sort of a joke on the holodeck or something like that.

    As stated before, the TOS Constellation can not be upgraded to T5, and that is a CBS decision, not Cryptic's or PWE's. The same probably applies to the Galaxy class from TNG.

    Changing your ship's weapons would make things very confusing as people would no longer be able to see what weapon is firing at them. Most of the weapons from the shows retained their original colors in the game.

    In the beginning a command was left over from champs that allowed us to change our beam colors. This was promptly removed as CBS didn't want that.
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  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Devs do care and they do listen.

    They just choose not to act on it because, unlike you, they actually have an idea of how bad your idea is.

    And a good 98% of the time, the community has really bad ideas that either are too expensive, too time consuming, too buggy or too crazy to actually happen.
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  • groomofweirdgroomofweird Member Posts: 1,045 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    While I do get you frustrations OP, some things cannot (realistically) be changed in the game, despite how much people ask for it.
    I bear reference to your point about the dilithium cap, imagine for a second they did take that away. I have enough unrefined dilithium after this event for pushing ?20 worth of zen,i imagine this is small fry compared to some people. It would be crippling to the sto economy if that happened. Also fleets, don't get me wrong I'd love to slam home that dilithium real fast, and sometimes I can with zen as others do but I think it would affect natural fleet progression.
    I would support perhaps raising it by 1k for a special event or something like that, but definately not permanent.
    And yes I do see allot of posts of great ideas (and darned stupid ones), many of which may or may not be implemented in the game. We recently learned just how long and complex the creative process takes to bring us new content so these things are hard to predict sometimes.
    And they do listen to feedback and things, a minor example I can think of right now is the environmental suit flying part of the new episode. That was a pain before, and they tweaked it.
    The problem I see here isn't the lack of changes based on playerbase suggestions, so much as perhaps a lack of communication from the team. Although I will say cryptic have been much more communicative since being taken over my pwe than for example bioware was after ea did the same.
    Some ideas are good but just not doable, some are good and are doable, some are just "give me moar!!" Spam. What would be nice is a resounding "yes we like this idea and are looking into it", or a "no that's not a good idea for the game and here's why", or a "we cannot implement this into the current game model, but it is a nice idea".
    I think that kind of communication would really help to keep things fresh and moving forwards on the forums and in peoples minds. I know if I were told by dev "no the bugship will remain as it is in terms of availability" for example, I know I would just enjoy a deep sigh and move on. I think this would be the same, one way or the other for many players with recurrant ideas.
    I also get that communication can be an issue for businesses sometimes, but in this instance it really would benefit the moral of the community. And of course some things should just be kept secret, its nice to be suprised sometimes.
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