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The Anniversary Ship...
ztempest
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
Ever since I saw the news about this ship, and looked at the stats yesterday, I have been thinking about how difficult it might be to have a viable build...
The new ship merges Science and Tac into a single vessel. The playstyle involved with both is a bit different...
I know that any captain can pilot any "type" of craft..but I tend to slot my captains into ships where they "fit" better -- i.e., sci to sci, etc. Typically, my Sci captains use beam arrays -- the innate sub-system targeting -- although I use it rarely - is a beam function. When playing my sci, I tend to use beams, not cannons...and yet this new Sci ship -- in tactical mode -- has cannons.
So...I guess that the way to approach it is to load it out like I would a Sci ship...and if or when I go "tactical" the vessel will serve as a temporary alpha strike of some sort...
But in order to use the embedded cannon effectively...I am going to need to slot at least one cannon skill...
I apologize for the rambling...I guess the question I have is...
Considering what we know about this vessel, are beams, or cannons the way to go? Logically, it looks like a cannon build might be the best, given that the vessel can mount cannons in either form..but then I end up laying a science vessel like I would an escort...and I am not so sure that this vessel can perform like that. I saw one proposed build that made it into a torp boat...but I don't know if that is very viable or not. Also...considering Cryptic has finally fixed the crit on FAW, it seems that FAW builds will likely become more popular...
I don't know. Perhaps I just have to get the ship and figure it out...but I sort of wondered if anyone had any thoughts on how they might load this vessel out...
The new ship merges Science and Tac into a single vessel. The playstyle involved with both is a bit different...
I know that any captain can pilot any "type" of craft..but I tend to slot my captains into ships where they "fit" better -- i.e., sci to sci, etc. Typically, my Sci captains use beam arrays -- the innate sub-system targeting -- although I use it rarely - is a beam function. When playing my sci, I tend to use beams, not cannons...and yet this new Sci ship -- in tactical mode -- has cannons.
So...I guess that the way to approach it is to load it out like I would a Sci ship...and if or when I go "tactical" the vessel will serve as a temporary alpha strike of some sort...
But in order to use the embedded cannon effectively...I am going to need to slot at least one cannon skill...
I apologize for the rambling...I guess the question I have is...
Considering what we know about this vessel, are beams, or cannons the way to go? Logically, it looks like a cannon build might be the best, given that the vessel can mount cannons in either form..but then I end up laying a science vessel like I would an escort...and I am not so sure that this vessel can perform like that. I saw one proposed build that made it into a torp boat...but I don't know if that is very viable or not. Also...considering Cryptic has finally fixed the crit on FAW, it seems that FAW builds will likely become more popular...
I don't know. Perhaps I just have to get the ship and figure it out...but I sort of wondered if anyone had any thoughts on how they might load this vessel out...
Post edited by ztempest on
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If Cryptic had made that extra TAC weapon a dual beam bank...then I would be much happier with the vessel...but we play the hand we are dealt, I guess.
It will be fun experimenting with it, in any case.
I believe they mentioned about the set's stats in another dev blog.
Since the lt cmdr tac upgrades to cmdr tac when the hybird ship enters tactical mode, you could slot a crf 3 or csv 3 in the cmdr tac spot.
I, for one, think the Dyson Ship will be very... interesting to fly. I can hardly wait to get one!
Winning.
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tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
If you're planning to support team-mates you can fill up those tac slots with attack patterns. Or if you want to be able to do enough damage on your own fill up on torp/beam/cannon abilities.
One tactic I've found extremely effective for solo content in tac/sci hybrids is cloaking, sneaking up behind or to the side of an enemy ship, buffing up, decloaking, tractoring, then instantly annhilating them with cannons (which favour close range).
Definitely something that needs to be taken into account but depending on your skills and console choices, energy siphon can render that particular handicap irrelevant.
being that its a science destroyer, i'd say either a sci or tac can use it if you want to be "sci to sci, tac to tac kind of person.
The search continued....until the aves...
I knew i wanted an escort that could sci. The aves though, is a sci that can tac....will that work?
Here is my thinking on the aves:
3/3 weapons....ok
Two DHC on grav torp. (aux power boosts it gw like proc)
Using ALL gear released with the ship. The shields are resilient, they heal themselves, and the set bonus heals hull. Combine that with the high shield mod and the new shields high cap...makes it tanky.
Its tanky like i want. Check.
Its a sci so it can sci...better than im used to. Check.
Sci ships usually have lower dps but this ship can transform into 4/3 with a permanent 4th being a cannon thus, we should use cannons to increase it effectiveness. In affect, an escort. Check.
Only thing left to decide is what types of weapons and i even ideas for that.
Given that i wanted to sci-scort from the beginning, i speced into sci boosting skiills along with dps increasing skills. How does this affect energy choice? Well, considering i will want to pvp in this ship, AND i speced into the polaron drain boosting skill....
But polaron isnt my only choice. I already have disruptors...which are good for dps.
Wait...Stop. "What about the built in proton cannon?"
Well what boosts proton cannons? ...nothing as good or better than what i have. So i am ignoring it. You see, the dyson rep gear does boost proton, but it only has shield heals....which arent that good...on a low cap shield. The gear released with the ship, has hull AND shield heals. So then the dyson gear is out. The dyson tac console? I would be gimping two cannons to boost one. Thats out. Only thing left is to ignore the fourth and boost what you can. Which means energy type really can be what ever you choose.
Im going with nanite disruptors. Only because i already have them and they have been hitting hard in kerrat. I will go fleet ap with accx2 asap though.
So for weapons....
Two nanite DHC. One grav torp. Forward.
Two nanite turret one KCB aft.
Throw on borg console for set bonus and more hull heals....
Throw on valdore console for more sheild heals....
MOAR shield and hull heals?! Thats just tanky on tanky....
In the end, will this set by up there with other escorts for dps? No, i know that. But it will be higher than any other sci ship excluding the the carrier ones. But it with be as tanky if not more tanky than the escorts and that means survives longer, fights longer, more dps and i will have my tac captain abilities to help in that.
What do you guys think?
I am currently on my phone... My SMALL phone...and i have BIG thumbs...i will fix typos when i can...
i dont believe so. I see this ship as a Sci-escort hiding behind the Science aspect of it. You, like the Defiant was just as "Escort" ship in a time where Starfleet didnt make warships?
The Shields and gear adds heals to both hull AND shields. While it doesnt have more than 3 tac console, that means it hits as hard as the DD and ive seen other get good dps numbers out of the DD. Its rare, but it happens. That mean you can have an ok damage dealing ship with both hull amd shields heal from the included gear.
Valdore console
Borg console.
MORE shield and hull heals........
Its a tank. A sci tank. that can do ok damage, all with the same set up....
Should be a decent to good science ship with decent to good alpha strike.
The way those two weeny sticks spin out on those weedy little spindles, really doesn't mesh with the rest of the ship's allure.
Well that and there's no secondary deflector shown or hidden.
Now, while the ship did under perform in the mission, i believe that was more to layout and set more than anything.
People.
The ship is a monster. Grind or not, im getting it. And i am already at 500 q marks.
However, a lot of the ship's performance was coming from the special BOFFs, and it was kinda clunking along the rest of the time. The non-mission version won't be doing quite as moderately.
OMG.....
Just a heads up, there is a good change the C-store version will have 4 tac consoles......
The only Sci ship i know of with four tac consoles......
it just gets better and better.
note: I base this on the mission used ship having four tac consoles.
- The Proton cannon can't be switched out, other decent Proton weapons or consoles aren't available, making it less effective than a "pure" build.
- Unflexible Tac Boff setup: 1 Cmdr, 1 Ensign doesn't really let you use skills for 2 different weapons types effectively. 2x TT plus 2 beam/2 cannon skills or 2 torp/2 cannon skills isn't really effectively possible.
- 60 second cooldown on the Tac/Sci conversion is too long. Considering PvE events only take a few minutes to complete, you're likely to stick to your favorite mode. After switching into Sci-mode after you blow a transformer in ISE to snare the spheres with GW3, there won't be enough time to switch back to TacMode for the next cube, for example
- Death and map change switch you back into Sci mode and reset the 60 sec cooldown. So you better not die if you like TacMode.
- No indicator weather Tac or Sci mode is enabled, other than the slight visual change on the ship itself.
My conclusion:
It's an ok ship, considering it's free, I didn't mind to spend 200 Lobi to save myself the grind, but since I own both the Temp Sci ship and the Temp destroyer I'm going to use those, rather than the Dyson one, especially now that switching ships has been made easier.
I agree with this a lot. The biggest reason to use the aves is that it is a free ship for a faction that has only 1 other sci ship, and may suit some folks slighter better than the standard haanom due to officer seats or the tactical gimmick. I think it looks cool, which may also draw a few pilots. The cooldown is too long for practical use.
Compared to the haanoms...
12 vs 10 turn
600 vs 1500 crew (less is better, due to mechanics of how crew work)
vs regular haanom: sci and tac ltcmdr swapped (ignores tactical mode gimmick)
same console layout
and the rest is about the same. minutia for the hull etc.
1. from your post you did what, 10 minutes to load it up with something, anything to go fly it.
2. And it already wasnt what you wanted it to be so you were already looking for problems with it
3. You drew your conclusions with bias' already set.
Thanks for the admission....
I think his points are pretty much correct, regardless of time spent flying it.
The (effectively 1) tactical officer and only 3 tac consoles makes it a poor man's escort. Anyone dreaming of making this thing an escort with a science mode is deluded -- it can't carry the consoles, and as he said, 1 gun of 4 can't benefit from the 3 you do get, and as he said, the officer layout is unfriendly for dps tac skills. It is, pretty much, a sci ship, not bad for *that* but the dps mode is going to be sub-par to any 4 gun 4 tac console 2 tac officer ships. That said, we have like 8 4+gun 4+console 2+ tac officer ships already..... *as a sci ship* it is pretty nice.
Thanks for simply making assumptions.
No, i did not simply load it up with anything random. Tried it with a few Boff and gear setups throughout the day and the remainder of last night before coming to that conclusion. If I would have been biased before, I definately wouldn't have spent Lobi to buy two of them.
I tried flying it with similar setups and the same gear that I'm using on the R'Mor and the Talvath (Fleet, Romulan and Omega), I tried using a combination of Dyson rep and episode gear combined with normal, Fleet equipment. Parsed all the encounters I ran (Fleet Alert, ISE, CSE and Spire elite) and compared it to the records i took with both temporal vessels and my Ar'Kif and the Ha'feh over the past weeks. If you want to, I can post a few logs.
I even shelled out 70k of Dilithium to see what effect auto-targeting modules would have vs. normal mag regulators.
And please. Take at least half a minute to read and comprehend what you're responding to. Things like the long cooldown on Sci/Tac switch and the missing indicator as to which mode is activated is something you'll notice and feel annoyed about no matter what gear and boff setup you're using.
Its the first day, and nobody has yet really done any work on optimizing it. You only mentioned one STF, Infected, but not KSG or The Cure. Those are both longer than infected. And I believe that proton weapons are coming.
Even if that belief is wrong, you should still have seen a good bit of buff from the elite tactical consoles from spire three and proton damage, you might have the proton sequencer item in your bank, and there is an experimental proton beam in addition to the proton DHC on the tac set up. Did you try all that too?
I am guessing not, that a lot of Dyson marks you would have to spend for those weapons....
And there are still more equipment coming in the near future with the c-store ships. Do you know what effect they might have on this? How about other options like plasmonic leach, did you test this ship with that?
You havent even bothered to ring out this ship yet, and already decided it was "meh"....Maybe let the first day or two end before you tell everybody else how bad it is.....
Its not designed as a escort, its a science ship with a little more punch...It should be treated that way, rather than put in a common mold.
The run I mentioned was an example. An example, is a single occurance used to illustrate a general rule.
I simply mentioned ISE as an example, where the long cooldown on the Tac -> Sci transformation would have been an advantage, but in the end it wasn't worth doing, because of the long cooldown. A similar example would be when you want to switch to Sci mode in CSE, snare Raptor spawns with GW3 and switch back to doing damage.
If they were to reduce that cooldown, it could fix that particular problem. The D'Kora is an example of how it could be done better.
Yep. Variing with weapons and consoles gave it slight differences in damage performance, but what it couldn't do was to fix the basic disadvantages this ship has (Tac-boff seating, transformation cooldown, fixed 4th weapon).
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the ship, and I don't think it's completely bad.
I'm simply stating that, contrary to what it's being described at, it's not very flexible and can't profit from it's hybrid ability, which makes it perform both subpar in it's role as a Sci ship and subpar when compared to similar escorts and destroyers.