Yes, this thread is longer than I expected! So I want to thank everyone for keeping this a constructive critique of why we should or shouldn't have the T5 Conny. I also want to thank everyone who contributed their time to create the science and carrier spec variants. While I love the Hanger Bay idea, a squadron of fighters really isn't, dare I say realistic. I was maintly being obnoxious when I asked for the Hanger Bay. However, I DO like the idea of keeping it a cruiser or compromising with a science variant but I'd so very much like to see:
Yes, they can even sell a pack of three class specific variants for 5000 Zen! The above spec would be the "basic" model. Maybe they could make another time travel mission like the Drozana Comet series or just like the Ambassador Class which rationalizes why we see those class ships still in service in 2409...
Pretty much this. From what we've been told in the past, part of the agreement from CBS when they issued the Star Trek license to Cryptic Studios was that effectively there will be no endgame version or "Tier 5 Constitution". There was no reasoning given and we probably won't be told an explanation simply because CBS doesn't have to give us on.
There are a bunch of other threads (including a more recent one in the Federation Shipyard subforum) about the "Tier 5 Constitution" if you want join in on existing discussions.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
I see in one thread that you are using CBS as a deterrent
CBS makes the decisions, as the owners of the IP (intellectual property), regarding what Cryptic may or may not use in Star Trek Online. Cryptic does not own any of the rights to anything they put into the game - it all belongs to CBS.
So when CBS says no, that's it - end of discussion.
I find it hard to believe that CBS is putting the brakes on one of their most profitable ships that carried the franchise for what, 25 years?
In short, that's tough luck. CBS are under no obligation to explain their decisions. Maybe it has something to do with their deal with Paramount, regarding the JJ-Verse Star Trek franchise? Maybe it's because they're saving it for another game, or holding it back so that you're all so desperate that when they do release it, you'll pay anything for one? Who knows.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
I find it hard to believe that CBS is putting the brakes on one of their most profitable ships that carried the franchise for what, 25 years?
So what is your reason then? Cryptic knows it would be the most popular and best-selling ship they could add to the C-Store. So what makes you think they would not have added it to the game if they could?
PWE is all about making money. If they could sell the ship they would - as it would be a huge money maker.
And FYI, CBS has said no to many things STO has wanted to put into the game. That is there right, as they own the IP and everything Cryptic does needs to be approved by CBS. Nothing you see in this game was added without CBS giving their permission.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I find it hard to believe that CBS is putting the brakes on one of their most profitable ships that carried the franchise for what, 25 years?
It is what it is. CBS gives final approval on what Cryptic does with the Star Trek license and apparently that is one stipulation. In fact, if I recall correctly from an earlier dev podcast, Kirk's Enterprise almost didn't make it into the game at all until Cryptic convinced CBS that it will only be a "lower Tier" ship and won't be seen that much. As mentioned before, CBS doesn't have to give us an explanation since they are the owners of the license.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
Trek is dead; if it wasn't, CBS would never have allowed a game like STO to continue the original timeline instead of movies and TV-shows.
All that is left now is Abrams Trek, get used to it...
As for the old ship, I guess CBS doesn't want the iconic Enterprise A to become a generic vessel that just about every true Trek fan would fly in this game.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
I find it hard to believe that CBS is putting the brakes on one of their most profitable ships that carried the franchise for what, 25 years?
There might be some pretty good logic behind it. Look what we have now is a TNG themed game. We have the ships, the factions, the style, everything. It just so happens that we also have some TOS and original movie content carrying over through both direct and indirect means. That has to be placed appropriately. Look at the most extreme example, the NX class. What would it say about the rest of the ships in the ST universe if Cryptic made a Tier 5 version of that? A Jem'Hadar strike fighter or Sovereign class is merely on par with a couple of nacelles strapped to a bucket? The Constitution is merely a grade up from that, occupying a tier 2 slot but still faced with canonized obsolescence compared to, for example, the Excelsior class, which saw a lot of use in TNG, Voy, and DS9 (suggesting that it's still on par with other ships in those periods while NO constitution class vessels were seen in any of those episodes [further suggesting that this is not just a recent policy made for STO.])
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And none of you are surprised that PWE devs have been told NO and the devs go 'oh ok' and just walk away?
Something isn't washing quite right here.
If they didn't, they CBS would pull the Star Trek license from them and Star Trek Online would be over. That's how license works. So long as CBS is okay with what Cryptic does with Star Trek Online, Cryptic can keep the Star Trek license and keep developing Star Trek Online. If CBS pulls their license from Cryptic, then Cryptic (under legal obligation and laws) will have to shut down Star Trek Online.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
And none of you are surprised that PWE devs have been told NO and the devs go 'oh ok' and just walk away?
Something isn't washing quite right here.
Who said that just went oh and walked away?
Regardless of whether CBS told them their reasoning or not. Regardless of whether cryptic ask them every month to change their mind, what CBS says goes.
And none of you are surprised that PWE devs have been told NO and the devs go 'oh ok' and just walk away?
Something isn't washing quite right here.
They did not just walk away. They asked several times - and even asked if they could put it into a Lockbox to get around CBS' restriction. Every time the answer has been NO.
CBS owns the property. It is like someone borrowing your car and then asking if they can drive it to another country. You have the right to say NO because you own the car.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Then why is a Vulcan ship from enterprise era allowed to have more everything? It even outclasses Archer's Enterprise ingame.
Something is not right here.
Because CBS does not care about the D'kyr. It is not their money-maker. CBS makes millions from the Connie every year - and it is an iconic image of the IP. No one is paying CBS millions of dollars to put the D'kyr on a T-Shirt.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Because CBS does not care about the D'kyr. It is not their money-maker. CBS makes millions from the Connie every year - and it is an iconic image of the IP. No one is paying CBS millions of dollars to put the D'kyr on a T-Shirt.
It's worth noting that no-one here is disagreeing with the OP's point - a T5 Connie probably would sell pretty well.
The point is that how well it might sell is utterly irrelevant until CBS approves it.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Then why is a Vulcan ship from enterprise era allowed to have more everything? It even outclasses Archer's Enterprise ingame.
Something is not right here.
Because 1. it badly outclasses archer's vessel 2. Vulcan science ships were never really placed in any of the later series, for all we know they could still be using the same logical designs, 3. it has far less of an important place in Star Trek franchises than the constitution class.
As I pointed out, look at the series and you have the same "no connies past Undiscovered Country" rule hold throughout. I wouldn't be surprised if this decision dated to the inception of TNG (separate the two shows out by keeping their hero ships well apart.) Pointedly look at Generations. They went for the Enterprise B rather than a relaunched A even though that possibility was mentioned at the end of UC and it would have provided a much more immediate reason (especially for a general audience) for Kirk to be doing anything on that ship. Sure, there are some good thematic reasons to use the B instead of A as well, but it does hold to a very consistent pattern for this franchise. They will always dodge the Constitution class when dealing with TNG-derived content.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Can the T5 constitution requests just did already?
I'd not be against a Constitution Holo emitter , thats reasonable, But the ship is obselete, leave it where it belongs , In Mothball
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
This conversation makes me eager for a way to find a middle ground while we wait for a Tier IV or Tier V constitution. Does anybody here have recommendations for specs that would beef up a Tier II Constitution class to make it take more hits? Consoles/Devices/Deflectors/officers etc? I too would love to fly a Constitution class around, but my Tier I TOS cruiser keeps getting slaughtered. Any advice for enhancing a tier II? I'm really bad at shipbuilding so any advice would be appreciated!
Then why is a Vulcan ship from enterprise era allowed to have more everything? It even outclasses Archer's Enterprise ingame.
Something is not right here.
It is more powerful in canon than the NX-01 and is stated as being almost on par with the andorian battle cruisers such as Captain Shran's Kumari, the andorians kept the Kumari line up to date and it is logical to assume that the Vulcans did the same with their old designs as the need to create new designs would have ended with Starfleet's formation.
there is some duscussions few months ago about bring new Star Trek tv series, but they have to wait after 2016 after JJ's 3rd movie when it is done, folks were talking about going back to Roddenberry's main root concept.
heard it is about 35 yrs after Voyager return to home, so close to this online theme, and one i heard about "Star Trek: Academy" was one of 2 series planning after 2016 or later.
CBS and Chris Roddenberry (Gene's son) wont give more info than this.
As discussed too many time to relink, CBS has said, every single time, they have said "no" to a endgame refit of the Constitution, in any way shape or form.
No T5 Connie
No T5 Connie refit
No T5 Excalibur
No T5 Exeter
And Definitely No rendition of the JJ-Trek Constitution.
It is all bound up by legalise and the license holder of CBS, who have the final say in everything lore wise that happens in game.
and for further reading on JJ trek, check the first link in my sig. the other two are there for spite.
It is more powerful in canon than the NX-01 and is stated as being almost on par with the andorian battle cruisers such as Captain Shran's Kumari, the andorians kept the Kumari line up to date and it is logical to assume that the Vulcans did the same with their old designs as the need to create new designs would have ended with Starfleet's formation.
Not to disagree with you, but you are simply rationalizing there. As we have never seen an Andorian ship in the IP outside of Enterprise we have no idea whether they just kept the style or went entirely different directions.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Not to disagree with you, but you are simply rationalizing there. As we have never seen an Andorian ship in the IP outside of Enterprise we have no idea whether they just kept the style or went entirely different directions.
Hence why cryptic has creative license to bring an ENT era Vulcan ship into STO. Policy has not been made by the series about where that ship fits in later, (unlike the Constitution class where you can still rationalize this way or that but it's part of the series to vote "no".)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Comments
Constitution Retrofit
Tier: 5 (Vice Admiral)
Type: Heavy Cruiser
Hull: 38,000
Shield Modifier: 1.5
Weapons: Fore 4 Aft 4
Crew: 430
Bridge Officers: 2 Lieutenant Universal, 2 LT Commander Universal, 1 Commander Universal
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 4 Engineering, 2 Science, 3 Tactical
Turn Rate: 8
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia rating: 40
Bonus Power: +6 All Power Levels
Cost: CBS being reasonable + 2500 Zen
Abilities: Cruiser Commands, Sensor Analysis, Subsystem Targeting
Yes, they can even sell a pack of three class specific variants for 5000 Zen! The above spec would be the "basic" model. Maybe they could make another time travel mission like the Drozana Comet series or just like the Ambassador Class which rationalizes why we see those class ships still in service in 2409...
Pretty much this. From what we've been told in the past, part of the agreement from CBS when they issued the Star Trek license to Cryptic Studios was that effectively there will be no endgame version or "Tier 5 Constitution". There was no reasoning given and we probably won't be told an explanation simply because CBS doesn't have to give us on.
There are a bunch of other threads (including a more recent one in the Federation Shipyard subforum) about the "Tier 5 Constitution" if you want join in on existing discussions.
(UFP) Ragnar
CBS makes the decisions, as the owners of the IP (intellectual property), regarding what Cryptic may or may not use in Star Trek Online. Cryptic does not own any of the rights to anything they put into the game - it all belongs to CBS.
So when CBS says no, that's it - end of discussion.
In short, that's tough luck. CBS are under no obligation to explain their decisions. Maybe it has something to do with their deal with Paramount, regarding the JJ-Verse Star Trek franchise? Maybe it's because they're saving it for another game, or holding it back so that you're all so desperate that when they do release it, you'll pay anything for one? Who knows.
PWE is all about making money. If they could sell the ship they would - as it would be a huge money maker.
And FYI, CBS has said no to many things STO has wanted to put into the game. That is there right, as they own the IP and everything Cryptic does needs to be approved by CBS. Nothing you see in this game was added without CBS giving their permission.
It is what it is. CBS gives final approval on what Cryptic does with the Star Trek license and apparently that is one stipulation. In fact, if I recall correctly from an earlier dev podcast, Kirk's Enterprise almost didn't make it into the game at all until Cryptic convinced CBS that it will only be a "lower Tier" ship and won't be seen that much. As mentioned before, CBS doesn't have to give us an explanation since they are the owners of the license.
(UFP) Ragnar
All that is left now is Abrams Trek, get used to it...
As for the old ship, I guess CBS doesn't want the iconic Enterprise A to become a generic vessel that just about every true Trek fan would fly in this game.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
There might be some pretty good logic behind it. Look what we have now is a TNG themed game. We have the ships, the factions, the style, everything. It just so happens that we also have some TOS and original movie content carrying over through both direct and indirect means. That has to be placed appropriately. Look at the most extreme example, the NX class. What would it say about the rest of the ships in the ST universe if Cryptic made a Tier 5 version of that? A Jem'Hadar strike fighter or Sovereign class is merely on par with a couple of nacelles strapped to a bucket? The Constitution is merely a grade up from that, occupying a tier 2 slot but still faced with canonized obsolescence compared to, for example, the Excelsior class, which saw a lot of use in TNG, Voy, and DS9 (suggesting that it's still on par with other ships in those periods while NO constitution class vessels were seen in any of those episodes [further suggesting that this is not just a recent policy made for STO.])
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
You'd think that and yet....
Something isn't washing quite right here.
Something is not right here.
If they didn't, they CBS would pull the Star Trek license from them and Star Trek Online would be over. That's how license works. So long as CBS is okay with what Cryptic does with Star Trek Online, Cryptic can keep the Star Trek license and keep developing Star Trek Online. If CBS pulls their license from Cryptic, then Cryptic (under legal obligation and laws) will have to shut down Star Trek Online.
(UFP) Ragnar
Tell me about it.
Who said that just went oh and walked away?
Regardless of whether CBS told them their reasoning or not. Regardless of whether cryptic ask them every month to change their mind, what CBS says goes.
We'd like to take this moment to apolagise that Licensing Legislation isn't as simple and clear cut as you'd like it to be.
CBS owns the property. It is like someone borrowing your car and then asking if they can drive it to another country. You have the right to say NO because you own the car.
Now, now, that's a discussion for a different thread...
(But I agree with you that I like the Miranda design and am trying to build one out for endgame play)
(UFP) Ragnar
It's worth noting that no-one here is disagreeing with the OP's point - a T5 Connie probably would sell pretty well.
The point is that how well it might sell is utterly irrelevant until CBS approves it.
Because 1. it badly outclasses archer's vessel 2. Vulcan science ships were never really placed in any of the later series, for all we know they could still be using the same logical designs, 3. it has far less of an important place in Star Trek franchises than the constitution class.
As I pointed out, look at the series and you have the same "no connies past Undiscovered Country" rule hold throughout. I wouldn't be surprised if this decision dated to the inception of TNG (separate the two shows out by keeping their hero ships well apart.) Pointedly look at Generations. They went for the Enterprise B rather than a relaunched A even though that possibility was mentioned at the end of UC and it would have provided a much more immediate reason (especially for a general audience) for Kirk to be doing anything on that ship. Sure, there are some good thematic reasons to use the B instead of A as well, but it does hold to a very consistent pattern for this franchise. They will always dodge the Constitution class when dealing with TNG-derived content.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I'd not be against a Constitution Holo emitter , thats reasonable, But the ship is obselete, leave it where it belongs , In Mothball
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It is more powerful in canon than the NX-01 and is stated as being almost on par with the andorian battle cruisers such as Captain Shran's Kumari, the andorians kept the Kumari line up to date and it is logical to assume that the Vulcans did the same with their old designs as the need to create new designs would have ended with Starfleet's formation.
heard it is about 35 yrs after Voyager return to home, so close to this online theme, and one i heard about "Star Trek: Academy" was one of 2 series planning after 2016 or later.
CBS and Chris Roddenberry (Gene's son) wont give more info than this.
and for further reading on JJ trek, check the first link in my sig. the other two are there for spite.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Hence why cryptic has creative license to bring an ENT era Vulcan ship into STO. Policy has not been made by the series about where that ship fits in later, (unlike the Constitution class where you can still rationalize this way or that but it's part of the series to vote "no".)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.