Mmm... you know why? Because it's Star Trek! A show about the UFP, (Humans) encountering, and dealing with, aliens. The audience only needs to know enough about the aliens in order to advance the plotline. Seriously, Klingon players like to complain that there isn't enough Klingon stuff in the game. Well, we basically have everything Klingon alluded to in the series/movies, in the game. We even have Klingon farmers FFS! A violent, hegemonic, race of conquerors, has farmers! The only way to add more Klingon content to STO, is to let Cryptic start making s**t up. When you do that, you get Klingon farmers.
I do know why, that is why I said "accident it appears" that the humans are snobbish to learn alien tongues. The show cant help but make it seem this way because we are all human who watch it. No need to get all touchy over it.
As to farming, the Empire has whole worlds dedicated to farming according to the novels written in the IP. How else do you progress a galactici Empire if not one its stomach.
Do not assume that the Empire is just a bunch of warriors sitting around waiting to fight. Such entities do not last long even in the real world as they soon lack the needed social constructs to persist.
The real humor of ST is how by accident it appears that the Aliens of the Universe have all bothered to learn the Human tonque rather fluently but the humans dont seem to bother the reverse.
If one did not know that translators exist one may think think the Humans where being snobish
Isn't that kind of how it is in real life, though? Where there are more people who use/understand English as a second language, than there are native English-speakers that know another language beyond their first?
Harvannsu, if memory serves. Remus is semi-canonically called ch'Harvan. Just as Romulus is supposed to be ch'Rihan.
Although, Remans may use "Reman" due to "Harvannsu" having Romulan connotations.
Ooh, cool. I only actually learned about the whole Rihannsu thing recently thanks to playing this game, but didn't even think about the fact that the Romulans would likely have a different name for the Remans as well.
Considering their treatment under the Romulans, both 'Harvannsu' and 'Reman' probably have negative connotations....
"There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
I still say it's like an Ojibwe referring to himself as an "Indian". Yeah, Klingons are notorious for refusing to fight unless they're the underdog. That's how they conquered their Empire. Anytime they achieved an advantage, they stopped the war, turned around, and went home. Anytime two sides fight, one eventually becomes a defenseless foe, that's how combat is resolved, Ace.
Actually yes that has happened.
Read the Kieth R. A. Decandido novel ENEMY TERRITORY and see how the Empires forces conquered an alien worlds government far enough to help its on citizen bring it down only to leave at the cusp of being able to take the whole race in one fell swop because the Klingons found them to dishonorable to bother killing.
Its an excellent read and a great insight into the Empire.
Isn't that kind of how it is in real life, though? Where there are more people who use/understand English as a second language, than there are native English-speakers that know another language beyond their first?
Quite so. I just find it humorous still when seen in star trek.
every klingon player is glad for new kligon ship - mogh, but need to say, it was just needed move to offset fed avenger.
I think it is time for some more kligon counterparts to otehr fed ships (or soem with unique abilities) - first come to min is klingon version of delta shutle - by many best shutle in game now (and no i dont want it nerfed).
I was just about to post a thread of my own on this very subject.
Since apparently "Shuttle PVP" will be a thing in Season 8.5, it makes sense for the devs to create KDF and Romulan counterparts to various FED shuttlecraft. Most notably (as you mentioned), the Delta Flyer, but also the 2409-variant on the Danube, named Yellowstone Runabout.
Now, while I don't know the effectiveness of the Yellowstone "Tetryon Plasma" Engines, I know for a fact that neither the Romulans or Klingons have an equivalent. For Shuttle PVP to be any fun at all, all factions need access to the same or similar abilities and gear. Which at current is far from the truth.
Quit being a ninny. I understand he wasn't physically conquering people 24/7. You can herd, and hunt, from horseback. Those activities actually train you for war. But you can't farm from horseback. Nomadic tribes don't farm anyway, that's why they're nomads. Camp followers aren't warriors, they support the war effort. Textbook Ghengis Khan. Mongol horde rolls up to walled city. Ghengis announces that unless the gates are opened he will kill every last man, woman, child, and dog in the city. If the city chooses to ignore him, he makes good on his pledge. If the city complies, he allows the ruler to become his vassal, and pay him tribute. (money, food, luxury items) People come to respect him as a man of his word. I think you need to do more history bowls, whatever those are, Champ.
Here's a couple easy ones:
1066?
1307?
But here's the thing. Genghis Khan was not a Klingon. He behaved much like a Klingon, but he was not a Klingon.
You're confusing a herder/hunter culture from Earth with an advanced, industrialized alien culture from another planet.
Klingons HAVE to farm, their population is simply too large. Qo'nos has at least one huge city on its surface; before replicators, such a place could ONLY be supported by farming. References to the battle of Qam-chee (think I spelled that right) in Klingon mythology indicate that at least one city attractive enough for Molor the Honorless to attack was present on Qo'nos in approximately 1800 AD (if my memory of the official Trek chronology is correct). This means that large-scale farming has been a significant part of life on at least some portion of Qo'nos since at LEAST the time of Kahless the Unforgettable.
The most important thing to remember here is that Klingons are an alien culture, from an inhospitable planet, and prize valiant underdogs (probably because of the realities of being a primitive society on Qo'nos a few thousand years ago). On Qo'nos, a windswept world with extreme seasons, farming is difficult at best. Being a farmer on Qo'nos is something that a Klingon can respect. It's not as badass as fighting for glory and honor, but it is very much a struggle against an unforgiving foe, which is something that Klingons can respect.
Also, you implied before that Klingons and Genghis Khan's armies both subsist[ed] on looted food. This is incorrect. Raiding can only feed an army that has no qualms at all about eating strange food (unlikely at best) and is LITERALLY always on the move, and not that big of an army at that. The primary food source for Genghis Khan's mooks would have been meat from the various herders who followed his armies (and likely outnumbered said armies, just to keep the army reasonably fed). Looted food would only have been distributed when the homegrown variety was running short; cultural prejudices among Mongols seem to have been high at the time, and nobody likes trying strange food.
The same goes for Klingon forces. Before replicators, the primary food source would have been farms, herds, and hunted animals, depending on the location.
Also, don't insult me, or the Klingon Empire. I take that poorly.
No. The game should be completely revamped with a modified Crysis engine, every other faction stripped down to the bare minimal needed to fulfill their roles as "disruptor fodder", and the game renamed to "Eternal Glory of the Klingon Empire Online". Then it will be enough.
Brilliant! An excellent plan! I hereby nominate you for the new Head of the InterWebs
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
"eine" is used when the following word is female, while the word that follows in your case is male...and not properly translated into German.
In the German translation of the word "Klingon" (as painfully bad as the transaltion itself is) there's actually a distinction between male Klingons ("Klingone") and female Klingons ("Klingonin") the latter thus roughly translates into "Klingoness"...which sounds interesting IMO.
So it's either "Ich bin eine Klingonin" for Klingon women
or "Ich bin ein Klingone" for Klingon men.:)
I'm just not sure where you're getting this bit about "prizing valiant underdogs". Because that's what Worf did? A basterdized Klingon who was fostered by humans? Worf had no idea what actual Klingon society was like while he was growing up. So in his mind he likened them to the Samurai culture of Earth that he read about in schoolbooks. He learned about honor from human examples. Once he actually started spending time around actual Klingons, he found out they were just as underhanded, and duplicitous as the Romulans. He actually allowed his own father to be forever known as a traitor, so that there wouldn't be civil war in the Empire. No, true, Klingon would go for that deal. Klingons love to fight.
On the topic of whether the Golden Horde ate foreign food or not, look at it like this. If the food is good enough for the Great Khan, it was good enough for his men. Yes, he commanded that much respect. Besides pork is pork, and beef is beef, no matter where you go. Most armies of this time had no choice but to forage for fresh meat. Your statement that he took more herders than warriors to battle is sheer rubbish. Mongol men fight, when they do, Mongol women, and children mind the herds. That's just how it was.
Point the first: There is a difference between the Klingon ideal and the Klingon reality. Plus, Worf eventually becomes a hugely respected Klingon warrior, and even technically wins the Chancellor's seat at the end of DS9, but he gives it to Martok. Also, Worf is not a typical Klingon; he is fanatically devoted to the persistence of the Klingon Empire as a political body, and he is also considerably wiser and more level-headed than most Klingons. Furthermore, Worf's father was eventually cleared by Gowron after Duras's death.
Point the second: You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The primary source of food for Genghis Khan's armies (NOT equal to the Golden Horde, which was a later political entity centered in Samarkand) was herded meat, supplemented when necessary by looted food (but ONLY when necessary). Women+children minding the herds while the men fight = more herders than fighters. Also, war casualties are a factor, and all of those Mongol warriors were actually herders to start with before they went out to fight and conquer under Genghis Khan. Naturally, they would have herded part-time, to keep an eye on their flocks. End result? More herders and support staff than fighters. Of course, the herders were left a few miles back whenever Genghis's armies attacked, but they were still there when the army needed to have some food for a post-battle party.
In short, I don't think that you actually know what you are talking about, and I think that you need to study sociology, anthropology, and psychology before you get back to me on this.
Also, stop disrespecting the Klingon Empire, Federation taHqeq.
capnkirk4: I will no longer respond to you, you Fed fanboy taHqeq.
You rant about my perceived ignorance, and yet you show no signs that you yourself understand any of the subjects that you claim I misunderstand. You ignore the very obvious fact that large-scale raiding is NOT sustainable as a food source for a large population, and that a purely raiding culture CANNOT become a major political power under any circumstances. You quote mine, strawman opposing arguments, cherry pick data, and blatantly ignore contradictory evidence. Your entire argument is both a logical fallacy and an oxymoron. I am clearly wasting my time just posting this response, as arguing with you is even more futile and pointless than playing chess with a pigeon. You have no apparent reasoning ability, and seem to be proceeding on bluster alone.
In short, you are annoying, self-important, and impotent. Goodbye.
And stop dissing the Empire. It pisses people off.
Once again the Gorkon novels cover the Empiral farm worlds and the numerous klingons that live and work them. There has never been a complete society made of nothing but warriors. Not even the Samuria or Spartans or Romans consisted of just one class of citizen.
As to the number of herders or support staff for non-modern armies, such individuals tended to exist on a two to one ratio to the soldiers. Even more if the soldier was of higher than normal birth like nobility. The oldcrule of thumb was once said to be " Two damned mules to every soldier". Every army moves on its stomach.
To think that the Klingon Empire consists of just what has been of limited use in the shows and movies is simple ignorance.
Another excellent book that really helps show the...for lack of a better word, 'humanity' of the Klingon Empire is the book "A Burning House", also by Mr. DeCandido. It also includes stuff about 'Klingon farmers', so all this silly talk of Klingons not being farmers and such is just a bit insane. Just because the shows and movies never showed such things, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Anyways, as for some 'Klingon love', let's see what the next few weeks bring. I say, let's have the devs get Season 8.5 out first, and everything that entails, before we worry about it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Well we've seen Klingon scientists on screen, so yeah, it stands to reason that at least some Klingons hand menial tasks like farming. Though, I do have to wonder how much of the Klingon food supply is produced by slave labor. We know they do have several worlds that have been subjugated for such purposes.
When it comes to Klingons we're not even talking about mules, we're talking about a warp capable, spacefaring, race, with starships. It honestly makes more sense to you that with the high value Klingons place on war, and by extension, the constant training required by each house to maintain a standing, fully outfitted, battle ready, private army, that they would even have time to set aside for farming. Farming is pretty much a full time job, except for the winter, if Qonos even has one. When put into that context, it doesn't seem like Klingons would be more likely to load the boys up into the BoPs, and go on a slave raid, and then put said slaves to work farming for the Empire, effectively fulfilling both the need to train for, and make war, AND farm? Kind of like Vikings, they just don't have to wait for the ocean to thaw.
Except that the Klingons have not always been that way, they were once a medieval society too - albeit one turned upside down by the Hur'q invasion. Klingons are human enough that the large cities and strongholds referred to in their old stories would require an agricultural base to sustain.
The KDF is the element of Klingon society that Starfleet see most often... it is *not* the totality of that society. I think DS9 assumed a Klingon fleet of somewhere in the region of 10-20,000 ships, even allowing for crews and support staff you could SWAG an organisation of around 10-20 million Klingons; a drop in the ocean for a massive interstellar empire. Even the lowliest KDF are elites, but trying to judge Klingon society purely from them is like trying to judge the modern US from the Marine Corps.
That sounds rather insidious, and underhanded. It certainly doesn't sound like the path that an honorable, noble, righteous, race that "prizes being the valiant underdog" would take. Thanks for making my case for me. Klingon honor I suspect, has many parallels to human honor. It's great to brag about, when one has the opportunity, but mix a little bit of selfishness into that equation, and it's the first thing to be stepped on, and discarded.
Your right, much like the human proclamation of being a open minded peace keeping armada.
As stated earlier all higher morals fail on the individual within a society.
Still, read the book if you can find it and enjoy how the Klingns actually help the rebel forces overcme a corrupt government. A story I know was mirrored in a TNG episode.
You point to the samurai as an example. True they were just a strata of Japanese society, but you know what they thought of farmers? Farmers couldn't even address, or look at samurai directly, how's that for derision? When the Japanese government abolished the samurai class, and suggested they become farmers, many samurai either took their own lives, or became outlaws.
In Tokugawa Japan, during the development of Bushido or samurai culture, farmers were not considered the lowest class. In fact, they were considered the first after the samurai, and there is significant documents which praised the role of farmers (Duus, Peter (1998) Modern Japan. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. p. 45). Granted this is largely a lip service, because it is bad form to insult the people that sustain your opulence. Further you claim that, "When the Japanese government abolished the samurai class, and suggested they become farmers, many samurai either took their own lives, or became outlaws." I am pretty sure this is rubbish. Many of the samurai turned to the Imperial Army, the new military class for a new nation state.
The Japanese, do however point to an example of the use of the term "Klingon" among Klingons. The Japanese do not call themselves Japanese but "nihonjin," however they do not find the term Japanese offensive (In fact they call you "gaikokujin," which means foreigner). Just as Native Americans often use the term "Indian" as a term for empowerment rather than disempowerment.
Lets consider your "math" here too, since we have you on the skewer. 50 men can be supported by 1 herder herding 10 sheep. You are right that is sufficient for one day. Let's imagine you want to feed them for a month and a half (50 days). Now you need at least as many herders as troops. And what do you do if your herder has a kid? Now you need more herders. Of course to a certain extent sheep replicate themselves, but now you need to account for sheep gestation vs. human gestation, battle attrition, other non-battle mortality rates, etc.
I would recommend that you do consider some historical research if you want to keep arguing this point. For now, I want to get back to Star Trek, because that is the source material for Klingons. In TNG "Birthright" part two there is a scene where Worf encounters a Klingon farming. "Have your parents taught you nothing? This is used for battle -- not for tilling soil," he says. Ruminating on this episode again, it is apparent that Worf does not disparage farming; however, he encourages hunting over farming.
In a world with replicators, perhaps there is no longer any need for farming. But gagh is better raw, and you don't hunt gagh...so somewhere there is probably a gagh and targ farm. Not many Klingon dishes use grains.
No doubts many a warrior has looked down upon those klingons who chose to work on the farm worlds rather than be warriors in the KDF....... until their bellies become empty that is...
All armies have a support structure to supply food, repairs and the resources needed to keep an army functional. This holds true even today.
The mules example was an illeteration to demostrate this without getting complicated.
Im sure many a slave works on the farms to feed the Empire.
Many a klingon is still needed to supervise said workforce though. Or would you trust your slaves to safely prepare yoir food for you?
As well, what food are these raiding trip usng while they hunt for new slaves? Klingns do not use or even like replicators.
In Tokugawa Japan, during the development of Bushido or samurai culture, farmers were not considered the lowest class. In fact, they were considered the first after the samurai, and there is significant documents which praised the role of farmers (Duus, Peter (1998) Modern Japan. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. p. 45). Granted this is largely a lip service, because it is bad form to insult the people that sustain your opulence.
Interesting - that's how farmers are portrayed in the Klingon novels (Day of Honour and A Burning House). They're treated with respect even by the KDF, I guess because of the fundamental importance of what they do.
In fact, Day of Honour's background centres on a group of Klingon famers who out-competed their Federation counterparts, thus earning their world under the terms of the Organian treaty.
Your a genious!!! LOL you are SO right... They will never stop ********. Just ignore them. Just because politicians have to give a TRIBBLE about every minuscule unimportant minority doesn't mean we have too!
minuscule unimportant minority? If I knew i wouldn't get banned for speaking my mind....
On topic, yes the KDF needs some more attention, more ships, more outfits, and that's about it. Gee all we want is some more ships and outfits guys, chill the duck out.
After playing a Klingon tutorial that was so amazing with Micheal Dorn's acting that made it very full and rich in story....then everything else for the klingon storylines was like lackluster and uninspiring. Perhaps they should start there.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Well, I always felt that the movies, and the TV shows did a pretty good job describing what Klingon society was like. And according to those, a sighting of a Klingon farmer, is about as real as a Bigfoot sighting. No, rarer. A Bigfoot on a surfboard sighting. A whole lot of conjecture, and far fetched allowances, but no real proof. Books, well, I've always regarded them as soft canon, because in most cases they're someone else's interpretation of the continuing story from the movie/show. A Splinter of the Mind's Eye was a perfect example of this.
Have you ever personaly seen a million dollars in gold bars?
Comments
I do know why, that is why I said "accident it appears" that the humans are snobbish to learn alien tongues. The show cant help but make it seem this way because we are all human who watch it. No need to get all touchy over it.
As to farming, the Empire has whole worlds dedicated to farming according to the novels written in the IP. How else do you progress a galactici Empire if not one its stomach.
Do not assume that the Empire is just a bunch of warriors sitting around waiting to fight. Such entities do not last long even in the real world as they soon lack the needed social constructs to persist.
R.I.P
Isn't that kind of how it is in real life, though? Where there are more people who use/understand English as a second language, than there are native English-speakers that know another language beyond their first?
Ooh, cool. I only actually learned about the whole Rihannsu thing recently thanks to playing this game, but didn't even think about the fact that the Romulans would likely have a different name for the Remans as well.
Considering their treatment under the Romulans, both 'Harvannsu' and 'Reman' probably have negative connotations....
Actually yes that has happened.
Read the Kieth R. A. Decandido novel ENEMY TERRITORY and see how the Empires forces conquered an alien worlds government far enough to help its on citizen bring it down only to leave at the cusp of being able to take the whole race in one fell swop because the Klingons found them to dishonorable to bother killing.
Its an excellent read and a great insight into the Empire.
R.I.P
R.I.P
I was just about to post a thread of my own on this very subject.
Since apparently "Shuttle PVP" will be a thing in Season 8.5, it makes sense for the devs to create KDF and Romulan counterparts to various FED shuttlecraft. Most notably (as you mentioned), the Delta Flyer, but also the 2409-variant on the Danube, named Yellowstone Runabout.
Now, while I don't know the effectiveness of the Yellowstone "Tetryon Plasma" Engines, I know for a fact that neither the Romulans or Klingons have an equivalent. For Shuttle PVP to be any fun at all, all factions need access to the same or similar abilities and gear. Which at current is far from the truth.
But here's the thing. Genghis Khan was not a Klingon. He behaved much like a Klingon, but he was not a Klingon.
You're confusing a herder/hunter culture from Earth with an advanced, industrialized alien culture from another planet.
Klingons HAVE to farm, their population is simply too large. Qo'nos has at least one huge city on its surface; before replicators, such a place could ONLY be supported by farming. References to the battle of Qam-chee (think I spelled that right) in Klingon mythology indicate that at least one city attractive enough for Molor the Honorless to attack was present on Qo'nos in approximately 1800 AD (if my memory of the official Trek chronology is correct). This means that large-scale farming has been a significant part of life on at least some portion of Qo'nos since at LEAST the time of Kahless the Unforgettable.
The most important thing to remember here is that Klingons are an alien culture, from an inhospitable planet, and prize valiant underdogs (probably because of the realities of being a primitive society on Qo'nos a few thousand years ago). On Qo'nos, a windswept world with extreme seasons, farming is difficult at best. Being a farmer on Qo'nos is something that a Klingon can respect. It's not as badass as fighting for glory and honor, but it is very much a struggle against an unforgiving foe, which is something that Klingons can respect.
Also, you implied before that Klingons and Genghis Khan's armies both subsist[ed] on looted food. This is incorrect. Raiding can only feed an army that has no qualms at all about eating strange food (unlikely at best) and is LITERALLY always on the move, and not that big of an army at that. The primary food source for Genghis Khan's mooks would have been meat from the various herders who followed his armies (and likely outnumbered said armies, just to keep the army reasonably fed). Looted food would only have been distributed when the homegrown variety was running short; cultural prejudices among Mongols seem to have been high at the time, and nobody likes trying strange food.
The same goes for Klingon forces. Before replicators, the primary food source would have been farms, herds, and hunted animals, depending on the location.
Also, don't insult me, or the Klingon Empire. I take that poorly.
Brilliant!
Congratiolations...it's almost right.
"eine" is used when the following word is female, while the word that follows in your case is male...and not properly translated into German.
In the German translation of the word "Klingon" (as painfully bad as the transaltion itself is) there's actually a distinction between male Klingons ("Klingone") and female Klingons ("Klingonin") the latter thus roughly translates into "Klingoness"...which sounds interesting IMO.
So it's either "Ich bin eine Klingonin" for Klingon women
or "Ich bin ein Klingone" for Klingon men.:)
Point the first: There is a difference between the Klingon ideal and the Klingon reality. Plus, Worf eventually becomes a hugely respected Klingon warrior, and even technically wins the Chancellor's seat at the end of DS9, but he gives it to Martok. Also, Worf is not a typical Klingon; he is fanatically devoted to the persistence of the Klingon Empire as a political body, and he is also considerably wiser and more level-headed than most Klingons. Furthermore, Worf's father was eventually cleared by Gowron after Duras's death.
Point the second: You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The primary source of food for Genghis Khan's armies (NOT equal to the Golden Horde, which was a later political entity centered in Samarkand) was herded meat, supplemented when necessary by looted food (but ONLY when necessary). Women+children minding the herds while the men fight = more herders than fighters. Also, war casualties are a factor, and all of those Mongol warriors were actually herders to start with before they went out to fight and conquer under Genghis Khan. Naturally, they would have herded part-time, to keep an eye on their flocks. End result? More herders and support staff than fighters. Of course, the herders were left a few miles back whenever Genghis's armies attacked, but they were still there when the army needed to have some food for a post-battle party.
In short, I don't think that you actually know what you are talking about, and I think that you need to study sociology, anthropology, and psychology before you get back to me on this.
Also, stop disrespecting the Klingon Empire, Federation taHqeq.
You rant about my perceived ignorance, and yet you show no signs that you yourself understand any of the subjects that you claim I misunderstand. You ignore the very obvious fact that large-scale raiding is NOT sustainable as a food source for a large population, and that a purely raiding culture CANNOT become a major political power under any circumstances. You quote mine, strawman opposing arguments, cherry pick data, and blatantly ignore contradictory evidence. Your entire argument is both a logical fallacy and an oxymoron. I am clearly wasting my time just posting this response, as arguing with you is even more futile and pointless than playing chess with a pigeon. You have no apparent reasoning ability, and seem to be proceeding on bluster alone.
In short, you are annoying, self-important, and impotent. Goodbye.
And stop dissing the Empire. It pisses people off.
As to the number of herders or support staff for non-modern armies, such individuals tended to exist on a two to one ratio to the soldiers. Even more if the soldier was of higher than normal birth like nobility. The oldcrule of thumb was once said to be " Two damned mules to every soldier". Every army moves on its stomach.
To think that the Klingon Empire consists of just what has been of limited use in the shows and movies is simple ignorance.
R.I.P
Another excellent book that really helps show the...for lack of a better word, 'humanity' of the Klingon Empire is the book "A Burning House", also by Mr. DeCandido. It also includes stuff about 'Klingon farmers', so all this silly talk of Klingons not being farmers and such is just a bit insane. Just because the shows and movies never showed such things, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Anyways, as for some 'Klingon love', let's see what the next few weeks bring. I say, let's have the devs get Season 8.5 out first, and everything that entails, before we worry about it.
My character Tsin'xing
Except that the Klingons have not always been that way, they were once a medieval society too - albeit one turned upside down by the Hur'q invasion. Klingons are human enough that the large cities and strongholds referred to in their old stories would require an agricultural base to sustain.
The KDF is the element of Klingon society that Starfleet see most often... it is *not* the totality of that society. I think DS9 assumed a Klingon fleet of somewhere in the region of 10-20,000 ships, even allowing for crews and support staff you could SWAG an organisation of around 10-20 million Klingons; a drop in the ocean for a massive interstellar empire. Even the lowliest KDF are elites, but trying to judge Klingon society purely from them is like trying to judge the modern US from the Marine Corps.
Your right, much like the human proclamation of being a open minded peace keeping armada.
As stated earlier all higher morals fail on the individual within a society.
Still, read the book if you can find it and enjoy how the Klingns actually help the rebel forces overcme a corrupt government. A story I know was mirrored in a TNG episode.
R.I.P
In Tokugawa Japan, during the development of Bushido or samurai culture, farmers were not considered the lowest class. In fact, they were considered the first after the samurai, and there is significant documents which praised the role of farmers (Duus, Peter (1998) Modern Japan. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. p. 45). Granted this is largely a lip service, because it is bad form to insult the people that sustain your opulence. Further you claim that, "When the Japanese government abolished the samurai class, and suggested they become farmers, many samurai either took their own lives, or became outlaws." I am pretty sure this is rubbish. Many of the samurai turned to the Imperial Army, the new military class for a new nation state.
The Japanese, do however point to an example of the use of the term "Klingon" among Klingons. The Japanese do not call themselves Japanese but "nihonjin," however they do not find the term Japanese offensive (In fact they call you "gaikokujin," which means foreigner). Just as Native Americans often use the term "Indian" as a term for empowerment rather than disempowerment.
Lets consider your "math" here too, since we have you on the skewer. 50 men can be supported by 1 herder herding 10 sheep. You are right that is sufficient for one day. Let's imagine you want to feed them for a month and a half (50 days). Now you need at least as many herders as troops. And what do you do if your herder has a kid? Now you need more herders. Of course to a certain extent sheep replicate themselves, but now you need to account for sheep gestation vs. human gestation, battle attrition, other non-battle mortality rates, etc.
I would recommend that you do consider some historical research if you want to keep arguing this point. For now, I want to get back to Star Trek, because that is the source material for Klingons.
In a world with replicators, perhaps there is no longer any need for farming. But gagh is better raw, and you don't hunt gagh...so somewhere there is probably a gagh and targ farm. Not many Klingon dishes use grains.
All armies have a support structure to supply food, repairs and the resources needed to keep an army functional. This holds true even today.
The mules example was an illeteration to demostrate this without getting complicated.
Im sure many a slave works on the farms to feed the Empire.
Many a klingon is still needed to supervise said workforce though. Or would you trust your slaves to safely prepare yoir food for you?
As well, what food are these raiding trip usng while they hunt for new slaves? Klingns do not use or even like replicators.
R.I.P
Interesting - that's how farmers are portrayed in the Klingon novels (Day of Honour and A Burning House). They're treated with respect even by the KDF, I guess because of the fundamental importance of what they do.
In fact, Day of Honour's background centres on a group of Klingon famers who out-competed their Federation counterparts, thus earning their world under the terms of the Organian treaty.
On topic, yes the KDF needs some more attention, more ships, more outfits, and that's about it. Gee all we want is some more ships and outfits guys, chill the duck out.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Have you ever personaly seen a million dollars in gold bars?
R.I.P