I do for one and there are quite a few others to. Plus Letheans are reptilian so TRIBBLE would make as much sense as gorn females having them.
They are! well nobody told me :eek:.
Okay copy paste then.
Oh and change the Saurians as well.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The reason there are no Gorn (or Lethean, probably) females in the game is sort of complicated, but I'll try to explain it to the best of my understanding.
When you create or modify a character's appearance, you are working with three categories: Head, body and uniform. These categories are based on templates for species, gender, and faction respectively.
Every character in the game is based off either a male body template or a female body template that is applied irrespective of species. Different species may have different settings you can adjust, but the underlying body template is fixed once you select a gender. Which is why Saurian females have TRIBBLE. All females conform to the same body template, so all females have TRIBBLE.
Now, this is speculation, but I suspect the reason Cryptic hasn't introduced female Gorn to the game is because they cannot separate the female gender assignment from the female body template, and they (rightly) fear the nerdrage if Gorn females were to appear with TRIBBLE.
Cryptic can't delete the Saurian females, because people have created (for whatever reason) female Saurian PCs and BOffs and these would be deleted as well. But they can avoid the same mistake by not releasing Gorn or Lethean females.
As for Nausicaan femmes, I just don't think their artists want to imagine anything that ugly. This may also apply to the Letheans.
Now, I personally believe that the Hodch and Ra'wiq NPCs - the big Gorn without head-spines - are actually females. This would correspond to the sexual dimorphism found in terrestrial reptiles; females tend to be larger, and have less decorative features. So if you wish to make a male Gorn and call it a female, that's how you do it.
TL;DR version: to make a female Gorn, scale them bigger, and leave off the head-spines. Cryptic can't or won't do it for you.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
The female changelings in the foundry have a male torso with otherwise female assets. Possible to use for reptilian females perhaps.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well, I just tinkered with the options for Letheans and Nausicaans, and well... um... they're only for those. you just can't get the face options on anything else. Also I think it might be a one-piece head.
Now, this is speculation, but I suspect the reason Cryptic hasn't introduced female Gorn to the game is because they cannot separate the female gender assignment from the female body template, and they (rightly) fear the nerdrage if Gorn females were to appear with TRIBBLE.
(SNIP)
Now, I personally believe that the Hodch and Ra'wiq NPCs - the big Gorn without head-spines - are actually females. This would correspond to the sexual dimorphism found in terrestrial reptiles; females tend to be larger, and have less decorative features. So if you wish to make a male Gorn and call it a female, that's how you do it.
TL;DR version: to make a female Gorn, scale them bigger, and leave off the head-spines. Cryptic can't or won't do it for you.
I would love to know where this "female Gorn are bigger" thing came from - I'm quite fond of the big lizards since they were my introduction to Trek gaming, but have never actually seen a source for that idea. Your comment about terrestrial reptiles is a very good answer but a lot of people seem to treat it as canon!
There has been a female Gorn lead in a Pocket Books novel ("Sieze the Fire", who did not appear much different to the males. Another Gorn in the same novel described Counsellor Troi's physiognomy as "offensively mammalian" which suggests that Gorn females do not have mammaries.
Among the NPC Gorn are hangovers from the old (2010) Gorn models which used to be playable, personally I think it would be great for Cryptic to re-introduce those as female gorn. They are less bulky, scaly and toothsome which would probably qualify as "feminine" to most players.
Every character in the game is based off either a male body template or a female body template that is applied irrespective of species. Different species may have different settings you can adjust, but the underlying body template is fixed once you select a gender. Which is why Saurian females have TRIBBLE. All females conform to the same body template, so all females have TRIBBLE.
Now, this is speculation, but I suspect the reason Cryptic hasn't introduced female Gorn to the game is because they cannot separate the female gender assignment from the female body template, and they (rightly) fear the nerdrage if Gorn females were to appear with TRIBBLE.
Please tell us why it's impossible for aliens that merely look like the anthropomorphization of a certain type of non-mammal creature from Earth. Because I don't think alien "reptiles" should be held with the same biology as similar Earth species.
You can hink what you want about them, but there's no inherent need to stick with Terran(read: IRL) guidelines when extrapolating female alien biology.
Please tell us why it's impossible for aliens that merely look like the anthropomorphization of a certain type of non-mammal creature from Earth. Because I don't think alien "reptiles" should be held with the same biology as similar Earth species.
You can hink what you want about them, but there's no inherent need to stick with Terran(read: IRL) guidelines when extrapolating female alien biology.
This is true, alien species in science fiction universes are only limited by the imagination and the intention of their creator. It would actually make less sense to have to apply RL guidelines based on the evolution here on Earth to something alien and completely imaginary.
Please tell us why it's impossible for aliens that merely look like the anthropomorphization of a certain type of non-mammal creature from Earth. Because I don't think alien "reptiles" should be held with the same biology as similar Earth species.
You can hink what you want about them, but there's no inherent need to stick with Terran(read: IRL) guidelines when extrapolating female alien biology.
[I know, it's not directed at me. Hope you don't mind if I pitch in nontheless]
Either the earth term "reptile" has a meaning or it's totally pointless, which would raise the question why it's used in the first place.
If it's pointless that doesn't mean Gorn females should have TRIBBLE because while you advocate we should use our imagination, it falls short of that exact same proposal by getting railroaded into "Gorn females with TRIBBLE" because human females have them.:)
They could have wings instead, after all we should use our imagination.
Think ant colonies.
I would love to know where this "female Gorn are bigger" thing came from - I'm quite fond of the big lizards since they were my introduction to Trek gaming, but have never actually seen a source for that idea. Your comment about terrestrial reptiles is a very good answer but a lot of people seem to treat it as canon!
One of the previous computer games IIRC. Maybe the Starfleet command games? *looks it up* It look like it was the Starfleet command stuff. It had a bunch of "flavor" stuff to explain who the various races were. This also had descriptions of the races themselves.
Either the earth term "reptile" has a meaning or it's totally pointless, which would raise the question why it's used in the first place.
If it's pointless that doesn't mean Gorn females should have TRIBBLE because while you advocate we should use our imagination, it falls short of that exact same proposal by getting railroaded into "Gorn females with TRIBBLE" because human females have them.:)
They could have wings instead, after all we should use our imagination.
Think ant colonies.
The term "reptile" is defined as "any cold-blooded vertebrate of the class Reptilia, comprising the turtles, snakes, lizards, crocodilians, amphisbaenians, tuatara, and various extinct members including the dinosaurs.". That definition only includes species that are related to Terran species. Therefore, it's reasonable to believe that alien species described as "reptilian" merely describes a collection of traits the aliens have that apparently resemble Terran reptiles. And that may or may not include the lack of TRIBBLE, as animals are not classified by their lack of TRIBBLE, but there is one classification that only includes animals with TRIBBLE(mammals).
Personally, I don't care if Gorn females have TRIBBLE, but I'm not gonna freak out if they do. And I believe that neither should anyone else.
Please tell us why it's impossible for aliens that merely look like the anthropomorphization of a certain type of non-mammal creature from Earth. Because I don't think alien "reptiles" should be held with the same biology as similar Earth species.
You can hink what you want about them, but there's no inherent need to stick with Terran(read: IRL) guidelines when extrapolating female alien biology.
The thing is, there's only a small handful of alien species in Trek canon that are truly alien (Tholians, Medusans, Undine/species 8472, etc.) while the vast majority are simply rubber forehead humanoids. This leads one to the reasonable conclusion that on the vast majority of planets in the galaxy, life evolved much as it did on Earth. (This was actually worked into canon in TNG: "The Chase" and the STO Breen arc as being the doing of the Preservers.)
So given that context, it actually does make sense to extrapolate terrestrial biology and taxonomic classes when making assumptions about alien races within the Star Trek IP.
It's technically not directed at anyone, as I'm addressing the idea.
The term "reptile" is defined as "any cold-blooded vertebrate of the class Reptilia, comprising the turtles, snakes, lizards, crocodilians, amphisbaenians, tuatara, and various extinct members including the dinosaurs.". That definition only includes species that are related to Terran species. Therefore, it's reasonable to believe that alien species described as "reptilian" merely describes a collection of traits the aliens have that apparently resemble Terran reptiles. And that may or may not include the lack of TRIBBLE, as animals are not classified by their lack of TRIBBLE, but there is one classification that only includes animals with TRIBBLE(mammals).
I don't think you understand biology as well as you think you do. That's not the way it works. In actual fact, all animals with mammaries are mammals. Logically, no animals with mammaries are not mammals. Therefore: all reptiles are animals without mammaries.
Personally, I don't care if Gorn females have TRIBBLE, but I'm not gonna freak out if they do. And I believe that neither should anyone else.
What you're basically saying here is "I don't mind having pickles on my sandwich. So everyone else should eat their pickles too."
You don't get to speak for anyone else but yourself. A lot of people don't like pickles on their sandwiches. Or TRIBBLE on their Gorn.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I would love to know where this "female Gorn are bigger" thing came from - I'm quite fond of the big lizards since they were my introduction to Trek gaming, but have never actually seen a source for that idea. Your comment about terrestrial reptiles is a very good answer but a lot of people seem to treat it as canon!
There has been a female Gorn lead in a Pocket Books novel ("Sieze the Fire", who did not appear much different to the males. Another Gorn in the same novel described Counsellor Troi's physiognomy as "offensively mammalian" which suggests that Gorn females do not have mammaries.
Among the NPC Gorn are hangovers from the old (2010) Gorn models which used to be playable, personally I think it would be great for Cryptic to re-introduce those as female gorn. They are less bulky, scaly and toothsome which would probably qualify as "feminine" to most players.
One of the nice things about aliens that aren't very well developed in canon is that they become a blank slate for different players and writers to fill in however they want to.
When I was doing my research on the Gorn I found a lot soft canon material that was often contradictory. The Typhon Pact novel Seize the Fire in particular contradicted many other soft-canon depictions of various aspects of Gorn culture, and introduced several concepts that were simply absurd (such as there being only one planet in the entirety of the Gorn Hegemony that had the right climate to hatch eggs belonging to the soldier cast.)
When I compiled my "Introduction to the Gorn" I wound up cherry-picking elements from soft canon that did not contradict screen canon, STO canon, or more "solid" soft canon. (by which I mean novels and games which do not contradict the "Path to 2409" timeline, which the "Destiny" trilogy and the "Typhon Pact" series obviously do.") I also tried to look for elements that jive with what we know of terrestrial reptiles and dinosaurs, because that really is the only baseline we have to work with when supposing what a sentient reptilian alien species would be like.
But like I said, the Gorn are essentially a blank slate as far as canon is concerned. If you don't like the conclusions I've drawn from my research, you're more than welcome to draw your own.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Concept art exists from the ancient days of Perpetual's poor treatment of STO of female Nausicaans. Delightfully unsexualized, too, despite being chesty.
Wish I could find the full version. Perpetual produced some pretty nice concept art outside of their crappy starship designs.
The thing is, there's only a small handful of alien species in Trek canon that are truly alien (Tholians, Medusans, Undine/species 8472, etc.) while the vast majority are simply rubber forehead humanoids. This leads one to the reasonable conclusion that on the vast majority of planets in the galaxy, life evolved much as it did on Earth. (This was actually worked into canon in TNG: "The Chase" and the STO Breen arc as being the doing of the Preservers.)
So given that context, it actually does make sense to extrapolate terrestrial biology and taxonomic classes when making assumptions about alien races within the Star Trek IP.
Actually, the Preservers had no effect on the natural evolution of any given seeded planet's species aside from the lineage that spawned that planet's humanoids. The humanoids from the seeded planets take on a similar shape. See for yourself.
Another conclusion that could be drawn from this is, the Preservers seeding the homeworlds of the races deemed "reptiles" would have more of a chance to have TRIBBLE.
I don't think you understand biology as well as you think you do. That's not the way it works. In actual fact, all animals with mammaries are mammals. Logically, no animals with mammaries are not mammals. Therefore: all reptiles are animals without mammaries.
Okay first, I would appreciate it if you were to lay off the personal attacks. Even though I do not need to defend myself in a topic not about myself, I will clarify that I was well aware that mammals are animals with mammaries, and did not imply anything else.
Also, if you are to classify aliens as "mammals" merely because they have mammaries, then Saurians count.
What you're basically saying here is "I don't mind having pickles on my sandwich. So everyone else should eat their pickles too."
Please don't put words into my mouth. I'm saying more on the lines of "pickles on sandwiches might exist, and I don't think people should mind". Not that it matters.
Concept art exists from the ancient days of Perpetual's poor treatment of STO of female Nausicaans. Delightfully unsexualized, too, despite being chesty.
Wish I could find the full version. Perpetual produced some pretty nice concept art outside of their crappy starship designs.
Wow, those Nausicaans look pretty cool. Just because one has big TRIBBLE doesn't mean they have to sexualize themselves. =D
I didn't make a personal attack on you. I simply suggested that your understanding of biology is incomplete. A hypothesis reinforced by your above post.
And there is no situation that should ever call for you to speak for others unless you're serving as an official representative. Saying that "you don't think people should mind" if Gorn females appear with TRIBBLE isn't just speaking for others, it's imposing your opinion on others, which is worse.
People like me who've invested a lot of creative effort into Gorn lore for RP or fanfic-writing purposes (or both, in my case) would not appreciate being confronted in-game with something that confounds our interpretation of Gorn physiology, not to mention natural law.
Long story short: You may be okay with Gorn having TRIBBLE. But you also need to be okay with the idea that there will be many who are opposed to that concept.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I didn't make a personal attack on you. I simply suggested that your understanding of biology is incomplete. A hypothesis reinforced by your above post.
Well if somehow my understanding of biology is incorrect, please tell me how. I want to believe in as many true things as possible and disbelieve in as many false things as possible, so please show me what I'm doing wrong. There don't seem to be a need to point that out to someone unloess they are going for an ad hominem or are willing to help the person out on the subject.
And there is no situation that should ever call for you to speak for others unless you're serving as an official representative. Saying that "you don't think people should mind" if Gorn females appear with TRIBBLE isn't just speaking for others, it's imposing your opinion on others, which is worse.
No, saying that one doesn't think someone else should think a certain way isn't imposing anything on them. No more than the nature of how politics operates, and I would argue quite a lot less. As strictly an example of this, it's like saying "I don't think people should mind homosexuals marrying". Now I don't necessarily hold that belief, but if I were to say that, would it be imposing anything on anyone? Of course not. Attempting to legislate such a belief onto others would fit the bill, but merely stating such a view does not.
Words do not impose anything onto anyone. They are merely sounds coming from one's mouth. Or in this case, letters being typed on a message board.
People like me who've invested a lot of creative effort into Gorn lore for RP or fanfic-writing purposes (or both, in my case) would not appreciate being confronted in-game with something that confounds our interpretation of Gorn physiology, not to mention natural law.
How does scrutiny hurt it in any way? Your fanfic still holds up, does it not? It's not dictated by what others think, and you or anyone else shouldn't be effected by someone else voicing their opinions on it. If you don't like it, ignore it, plain and simple.
Long story short: You may be okay with Gorn having TRIBBLE. But you also need to be okay with the idea that there will be many who are opposed to that concept.
Of course I'm okay with the idea. I never implied that I am not.
Concept art exists from the ancient days of Perpetual's poor treatment of STO of female Nausicaans. Delightfully unsexualized, too, despite being chesty.
Wish I could find the full version. Perpetual produced some pretty nice concept art outside of their crappy starship designs.
More complete than what I linked, see I would be happy with someone like that...I don't care if she isn't considered *sexy*...that isn't the point. I really like the Nausicaan armor and would like to wear some.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Well if somehow my understanding of biology is incorrect, please tell me how. I want to believe in as many true things as possible and disbelieve in as many false things as piossible, so please show me what I'm doing wrong.
You seem to think it is somehow possible for non-mammalian lifeforms to possess mammaries.
...
Words do not impose anything onto anyone. They are merely sounds coming from one's mouth. Or in this case, letters being typed on a message board.
Point conceded.
How does scrutiny hurt it in any way? Your fanfic still holds up, does it not? It's not dictated by what others think, and you or anyone else shouldn't be effected by someone else voicing their opinions on it. If you don't like it, ignore it, plain and simple.
What I'm saying is that if Gorn females are added to the game, based on the female body template (i.e. with a slimmer waist and TRIBBLE) that will cause many members of the Gorn RP community to trip.
Of course I'm okay with the idea. I never implied that I am not.
You said that you "believe that no one" or "don't think anyone" should have a problem with TRIBBLE on a Gorn. That implies that you are not okay if people do in fact have a problem with it or "freak out" over it.
I really don't know why we're even arguing about this, since clearly this issue does not affect you one way or the other, or it least it doesn't affect you on the same level it affects me. I'm going to drop this discussion now.
...
That Nausicaan female concept actually doesn't look half-bad. I was afraid there would be more of a "vampire queen" look to them. I would like to see something like that in the game.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
You seem to think it is somehow possible for non-mammalian lifeforms to possess mammaries.
Unless the definition of "mammal" is any creature that has mammaries(in that case, Saurians would be mammals), then yes I do. And if you're defining mammals in the strict definition of "any vertebrate of the class Mammalia, having the body more or less covered with hair, nourishing the young with milk from the mammary glands, and, with the exception of the egg-laying monotremes, giving birth to live young.", then no alien counts as a mammal, as the only beings classified in "Mammalia" would be from the Terran evolutionary branch of the same name.
Please tell me how this way of thinking is flawed and the correct information if you can.
What I'm saying is that if Gorn females are added to the game, based on the female body template (i.e. with a slimmer waist and TRIBBLE) that will cause many members of the Gorn RP community to trip.
And they are more important than members of the RP community that have the opposite view? Or anyone else with the opposite view for that matter.
You said that you "believe that no one" or "don't think anyone" should have a problem with TRIBBLE on a Gorn. That implies that you are not okay if people do in fact have a problem with it or "freak out" over it.
I'm sorry that you think so, but I did not mean to imply that.
I really don't know why we're even arguing about this, since clearly this issue does not affect you one way or the other, or it least it doesn't affect you on the same level it affects me. I'm going to drop this discussion now.
I had no intention of arguing in the first place, I merely came to this thread wanting information. Then you came in and responded to me in a way that made me want information more. Talking about when you said I had wrong information... I would like to know the right information.
But if you wish to sever this discussion now, so be it. I hope our next conversation is more pleasent. =D
You seem to think it is somehow possible for non-mammalian lifeforms to possess mammaries.
You seem to be under the misconception that alien lifeforms need to be definable as either mammal or reptile and can't fall into a category not of this world. :P Like Monotremes for example. :P Technically they're mammals, but they have certain traits that are otherwise not found in mammals. Platypi lay eggs, have an electrolocation sense, and while they have mammaries, their mammaries lack nipples. They also have eyes, that, while functional, have a peculiar internal structure not seen in other mammals.
Anyways, it's possible for an alien life form to fall outside the categories that life on Earth falls into. :P So yeah.... scales + mammaries = not a lizard, and not a mammal. :P
More complete than what I linked, see I would be happy with someone like that...I don't care if she isn't considered *sexy*...that isn't the point. I really like the Nausicaan armor and would like to wear some.
I would love to know where this "female Gorn are bigger" thing came from
Among the NPC Gorn are hangovers from the old (2010) Gorn models which used to be playable, personally I think it would be great for Cryptic to re-introduce those as female gorn. They are less bulky, scaly and toothsome which would probably qualify as "feminine" to most players.
Just extrapolation from earth lizards.
But why. with no canon background for female Gorn (and to an extent Nausicaan or Letheans) cryptic could do something interesting, like making the females less 'feminine' than the males.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
But why. with no canon background for female Gorn (and to an extent Nausicaan or Letheans) cryptic could do something interesting, like making the females less 'feminine' than the males.
Comments
Well they look more feminine than the Nausicaan on ENT. :P
I know I've linked it here multiple times before, but I would love to have something like https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-czDTfn89og0/TgHUi_es7sI/AAAAAAAACz0/OYDOl96kafk/s720/concept16.jpg
some day...
They are! well nobody told me :eek:.
Okay copy paste then.
Oh and change the Saurians as well.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Letheans, Not much info to go on I know.
Also Saurians have TRIBBLE? Why?
...I'm guessing the same reason.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
When you create or modify a character's appearance, you are working with three categories: Head, body and uniform. These categories are based on templates for species, gender, and faction respectively.
Every character in the game is based off either a male body template or a female body template that is applied irrespective of species. Different species may have different settings you can adjust, but the underlying body template is fixed once you select a gender. Which is why Saurian females have TRIBBLE. All females conform to the same body template, so all females have TRIBBLE.
Now, this is speculation, but I suspect the reason Cryptic hasn't introduced female Gorn to the game is because they cannot separate the female gender assignment from the female body template, and they (rightly) fear the nerdrage if Gorn females were to appear with TRIBBLE.
Cryptic can't delete the Saurian females, because people have created (for whatever reason) female Saurian PCs and BOffs and these would be deleted as well. But they can avoid the same mistake by not releasing Gorn or Lethean females.
As for Nausicaan femmes, I just don't think their artists want to imagine anything that ugly. This may also apply to the Letheans.
Now, I personally believe that the Hodch and Ra'wiq NPCs - the big Gorn without head-spines - are actually females. This would correspond to the sexual dimorphism found in terrestrial reptiles; females tend to be larger, and have less decorative features. So if you wish to make a male Gorn and call it a female, that's how you do it.
TL;DR version: to make a female Gorn, scale them bigger, and leave off the head-spines. Cryptic can't or won't do it for you.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
An extrapolation for Nausicaans seems plausible.
My character Tsin'xing
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Assuming that NPCs are set up the same way player chars are...
Yes, because when I see female Saurian, Tellarite, and Pakled I think, what attractive looking women... :rolleyes:
But if thats the case, then stop them being hooked up to only male costume pieces !
I see many arguing that certain female options would be too ugly
that gender doesnt exist for the purpose of aesthetically pleasing you alone
Yeah...I don't want a female Nausicaan to look pretty, I want one to have a female and access to unique Nausicaan armor options.
My character Tsin'xing
I would love to know where this "female Gorn are bigger" thing came from - I'm quite fond of the big lizards since they were my introduction to Trek gaming, but have never actually seen a source for that idea. Your comment about terrestrial reptiles is a very good answer but a lot of people seem to treat it as canon!
There has been a female Gorn lead in a Pocket Books novel ("Sieze the Fire", who did not appear much different to the males. Another Gorn in the same novel described Counsellor Troi's physiognomy as "offensively mammalian" which suggests that Gorn females do not have mammaries.
Among the NPC Gorn are hangovers from the old (2010) Gorn models which used to be playable, personally I think it would be great for Cryptic to re-introduce those as female gorn. They are less bulky, scaly and toothsome which would probably qualify as "feminine" to most players.
You can hink what you want about them, but there's no inherent need to stick with Terran(read: IRL) guidelines when extrapolating female alien biology.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
This is true, alien species in science fiction universes are only limited by the imagination and the intention of their creator. It would actually make less sense to have to apply RL guidelines based on the evolution here on Earth to something alien and completely imaginary.
[I know, it's not directed at me. Hope you don't mind if I pitch in nontheless]
Either the earth term "reptile" has a meaning or it's totally pointless, which would raise the question why it's used in the first place.
If it's pointless that doesn't mean Gorn females should have TRIBBLE because while you advocate we should use our imagination, it falls short of that exact same proposal by getting railroaded into "Gorn females with TRIBBLE" because human females have them.:)
They could have wings instead, after all we should use our imagination.
Think ant colonies.
My character Tsin'xing
The term "reptile" is defined as "any cold-blooded vertebrate of the class Reptilia, comprising the turtles, snakes, lizards, crocodilians, amphisbaenians, tuatara, and various extinct members including the dinosaurs.". That definition only includes species that are related to Terran species. Therefore, it's reasonable to believe that alien species described as "reptilian" merely describes a collection of traits the aliens have that apparently resemble Terran reptiles. And that may or may not include the lack of TRIBBLE, as animals are not classified by their lack of TRIBBLE, but there is one classification that only includes animals with TRIBBLE(mammals).
Personally, I don't care if Gorn females have TRIBBLE, but I'm not gonna freak out if they do. And I believe that neither should anyone else.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
The thing is, there's only a small handful of alien species in Trek canon that are truly alien (Tholians, Medusans, Undine/species 8472, etc.) while the vast majority are simply rubber forehead humanoids. This leads one to the reasonable conclusion that on the vast majority of planets in the galaxy, life evolved much as it did on Earth. (This was actually worked into canon in TNG: "The Chase" and the STO Breen arc as being the doing of the Preservers.)
So given that context, it actually does make sense to extrapolate terrestrial biology and taxonomic classes when making assumptions about alien races within the Star Trek IP.
I don't think you understand biology as well as you think you do. That's not the way it works. In actual fact, all animals with mammaries are mammals. Logically, no animals with mammaries are not mammals. Therefore: all reptiles are animals without mammaries.
What you're basically saying here is "I don't mind having pickles on my sandwich. So everyone else should eat their pickles too."
You don't get to speak for anyone else but yourself. A lot of people don't like pickles on their sandwiches. Or TRIBBLE on their Gorn.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
One of the nice things about aliens that aren't very well developed in canon is that they become a blank slate for different players and writers to fill in however they want to.
When I was doing my research on the Gorn I found a lot soft canon material that was often contradictory. The Typhon Pact novel Seize the Fire in particular contradicted many other soft-canon depictions of various aspects of Gorn culture, and introduced several concepts that were simply absurd (such as there being only one planet in the entirety of the Gorn Hegemony that had the right climate to hatch eggs belonging to the soldier cast.)
When I compiled my "Introduction to the Gorn" I wound up cherry-picking elements from soft canon that did not contradict screen canon, STO canon, or more "solid" soft canon. (by which I mean novels and games which do not contradict the "Path to 2409" timeline, which the "Destiny" trilogy and the "Typhon Pact" series obviously do.") I also tried to look for elements that jive with what we know of terrestrial reptiles and dinosaurs, because that really is the only baseline we have to work with when supposing what a sentient reptilian alien species would be like.
But like I said, the Gorn are essentially a blank slate as far as canon is concerned. If you don't like the conclusions I've drawn from my research, you're more than welcome to draw your own.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Wish I could find the full version. Perpetual produced some pretty nice concept art outside of their crappy starship designs.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ancient_humanoid
Another conclusion that could be drawn from this is, the Preservers seeding the homeworlds of the races deemed "reptiles" would have more of a chance to have TRIBBLE.
Okay first, I would appreciate it if you were to lay off the personal attacks. Even though I do not need to defend myself in a topic not about myself, I will clarify that I was well aware that mammals are animals with mammaries, and did not imply anything else.
Also, if you are to classify aliens as "mammals" merely because they have mammaries, then Saurians count.
Please don't put words into my mouth. I'm saying more on the lines of "pickles on sandwiches might exist, and I don't think people should mind". Not that it matters.
I try not to speak for anyone unless the situation calls for it.
Wow, those Nausicaans look pretty cool. Just because one has big TRIBBLE doesn't mean they have to sexualize themselves. =D
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I didn't make a personal attack on you. I simply suggested that your understanding of biology is incomplete. A hypothesis reinforced by your above post.
And there is no situation that should ever call for you to speak for others unless you're serving as an official representative. Saying that "you don't think people should mind" if Gorn females appear with TRIBBLE isn't just speaking for others, it's imposing your opinion on others, which is worse.
People like me who've invested a lot of creative effort into Gorn lore for RP or fanfic-writing purposes (or both, in my case) would not appreciate being confronted in-game with something that confounds our interpretation of Gorn physiology, not to mention natural law.
Long story short: You may be okay with Gorn having TRIBBLE. But you also need to be okay with the idea that there will be many who are opposed to that concept.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
No, saying that one doesn't think someone else should think a certain way isn't imposing anything on them. No more than the nature of how politics operates, and I would argue quite a lot less. As strictly an example of this, it's like saying "I don't think people should mind homosexuals marrying". Now I don't necessarily hold that belief, but if I were to say that, would it be imposing anything on anyone? Of course not. Attempting to legislate such a belief onto others would fit the bill, but merely stating such a view does not.
Words do not impose anything onto anyone. They are merely sounds coming from one's mouth. Or in this case, letters being typed on a message board.
How does scrutiny hurt it in any way? Your fanfic still holds up, does it not? It's not dictated by what others think, and you or anyone else shouldn't be effected by someone else voicing their opinions on it. If you don't like it, ignore it, plain and simple.
Of course I'm okay with the idea. I never implied that I am not.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
More complete than what I linked, see I would be happy with someone like that...I don't care if she isn't considered *sexy*...that isn't the point. I really like the Nausicaan armor and would like to wear some.
Point conceded.
What I'm saying is that if Gorn females are added to the game, based on the female body template (i.e. with a slimmer waist and TRIBBLE) that will cause many members of the Gorn RP community to trip.
You said that you "believe that no one" or "don't think anyone" should have a problem with TRIBBLE on a Gorn. That implies that you are not okay if people do in fact have a problem with it or "freak out" over it.
I really don't know why we're even arguing about this, since clearly this issue does not affect you one way or the other, or it least it doesn't affect you on the same level it affects me. I'm going to drop this discussion now.
...
That Nausicaan female concept actually doesn't look half-bad. I was afraid there would be more of a "vampire queen" look to them. I would like to see something like that in the game.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Please tell me how this way of thinking is flawed and the correct information if you can.
And they are more important than members of the RP community that have the opposite view? Or anyone else with the opposite view for that matter.
I'm sorry that you think so, but I did not mean to imply that.
I had no intention of arguing in the first place, I merely came to this thread wanting information. Then you came in and responded to me in a way that made me want information more. Talking about when you said I had wrong information... I would like to know the right information.
But if you wish to sever this discussion now, so be it. I hope our next conversation is more pleasent. =D
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Anyways, it's possible for an alien life form to fall outside the categories that life on Earth falls into. :P So yeah.... scales + mammaries = not a lizard, and not a mammal. :P Yes, that concept art is awesome.
My character Tsin'xing
Just extrapolation from earth lizards.
But why. with no canon background for female Gorn (and to an extent Nausicaan or Letheans) cryptic could do something interesting, like making the females less 'feminine' than the males.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing