Yes, it is. You claimed First Contact lost money, then we proved you wrong. You then produced its ranking in box office earnings for the year, a fact completely irrelevant to whether or not it lost money.
And having watched TOS during its original run doesn't make you a true Trek fan either. For example, I could've potentially watched it during its original run because I was a TV critic whose job it was to review TV shows, and hated every minute of it. Or I could be somebody who knows every last detail of Prime!Kirk's life down to what he prefers to have for breakfast and yet be ten years old.
You don't get to decide who is and is not a true fan of anything.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Ok so since you've limited 'true' Trek fans to people who watched TOS during its original run, a span of four years, you've just further invalidated your credibility and dumped overboard any and all respect I had for you. :cool:
Ok so since you've limited 'true' Trek fans to people who watched TOS during its original run, a span of four years, you've just further invalidated your credibility and dumped overboard any and all respect I had for you. :cool:
Yeah, well, I never had any respect for him to begin with because I saw the crud he called an "argument" the last time this topic came up.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
It's been dry docked, stripped of any useful weaponry, and Data is flying a Breen frigate now, like everybody else.
Lol, i've been thinking something similar too.
How would the different TV shows look if they would took place in STO?
horrible, just horrible, lol. :eek:
@talonxv
I think Age03 referred more to the quality than to the commercial success of TNG movies.
Although i am a TNG fan, i really dislike TNG movies (ST:8 being somehow a exception). Everything that made TNG great, got ignored in their movies, so my enthusiasm for them is has its limits.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Lol, i've been thinking something similar too.
How would the different TV shows look if they would took place in STO?
horrible, just horrible, lol. :eek:
@talonxv
I think Age03 referred more to the quality than to the commercial success of TNG movies.
Although i am a TNG fan, i really dislike TNG movies (ST:8 being somehow a exception). Everything that made TNG great, got ignored in their movies, so my enthusiasm for them is has its limits.
That is exactly what I ma refering to the TNG TV series was far better than the movies.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I dont know what the problem with vthe Next Gen movies was, i always thought they where like the episodes, there where ups and downs, talking space thingies, ground thingies, banter.
Its just the ups where a little higher, bigger explosions flashier things. Think of them more like 2 part episodes....
Anyway i have watched the entirety of Star Trek , every episode, every movie, the cartoons, sadly i have not yet read any of the books.
Im still not technically a true trek fan, cause true trek fans hate star warsa and its fans and sadly i love star wars too, and firefly, and babylon 5 and both battlestar galacticas, and andromeda, and a whole host of other scifi space shows.
So i guess i am atrue space fan :rolleyes:
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Being a trek fan does not exclude of being fan of something else.
I like other Sci fi series too, but i think each one should keep whats making them unique.
(Cryptic does the exact opposite btw.)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I watched TOS during its original run, then for decades in reruns. I watched all the movies, although the last few were on DVD or cable rather than in theaters, largely because theaters are getting bloody expensive.
I also watched TNG, DS9, most of VOY (I kind of dropped out after "Year of Hell" - why watch if nothing is ever going to change? It's like waiting for a dramatic development on Gilligan's Island!), and ENT.
I guess I'm not a True Trek Fan, though, because I liked First Contact. I thought Insurrection was rather weak, hated Nemesis for a lot of reasons (but largely Action Hero Picard), and liked the Abrams reboot as an alternate universe. I've been playing this game since shortly after it went F2P, and enjoy it for what it is (that is, what the Trekverse might have become if Roddenberry hadn't gone on that Utopian kick where suddenly there couldn't be any major conflicts on-screen).
That is exactly what I ma refering to the TNG TV series was far better than the movies.
Fine, then state that. Don't say "they didn't make money at the box office." Plenty of proof otherwise.
I think the bigger reason that cast stopped after nemesis, many of them getting a tad old.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
It lost at the box office to the movie that were out when it was first released.to be blunt most true Trek fan didn't want anything to due with it anymore when Kirk was killed off in Generations.These were dihard fans that petitioned NBC to bring it back when it was cancelled in 69.
Where Are You Getting Your Facts????????
Fleet Admiral Joseph D. Ridgeway
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
I dont care which movie flopped or which movie made the most money as for me I am a true star trek fan.
I will state the claim tos true trekie been watching star trek for well over 40 years I loved tos as a kid when tng came out I was there to enjoy it when ds9 came out had my pop corn and when voyager came out was there for it as well and when enterprize went on was there as well.
Then we lost any new star trek on tv and I was sad but then they brought it back on the big screen and geuss what I support it its star trek and i'll due my part as a fan to keep it going just like the wonderful game.
Fyi I am a true trekie but I love star wars just as much
So wait, did Data/B4 and the E disappear in a nebula or retire at the wrong school and attempt to rebuild himself?
Also, we all need to take a second and thank the guy for posting the logical fallacy page. That should be required reading for anyone who wants to log into a forum.
So wait, did Data/B4 and the E disappear in a nebula or retire at the wrong school and attempt to rebuild himself?
Both. The E disappeared in 2408 and returned in 2409. The ship was decommissioned and Data retired. IIRC, a backup of B-4's own matrix still exists, hence why Data is constructing a new body for him.
Both. The E disappeared in 2408 and returned in 2409. The ship was decommissioned and Data retired. IIRC, a backup of B-4's own matrix still exists, hence why Data is constructing a new body for him.
So they didnt all die in some far awy nebula because they let Troi drive? My entire life is a lie....:(
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I like more Trek than just TOS.
I'm also not old enough to have seen the original run and on top of that I live in a country where they didn't start broadcasting it until 1972.
It lost at the box office to the movie that were out when it was first released.to be blunt most true Trek fan didn't want anything to due with it anymore when Kirk was killed off in Generations.These were dihard fans that petitioned NBC to bring it back when it was cancelled in 69.
they said the same of TNG when it first came out and yet its one of the most popular series out there in trek lore. DS9 was a success as was Voyager. there were simply situations that went out of the producers hands that cancelled TOS and ENT, these things happen.
There was also no way that Shatner could continue playing this role to his grave, of course kirk had to be killed off at some point, and if some fanboys dont want to accept that let em cry, the rest of the trek fandom will keep marching on.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Well, that's a shame. After 20 years of enjoying Star Trek (since I was five) from TOS to Abrams (although, obviously much less love for Abrams), sitting here in my study in front of my extensive collection of Star Trek books, under the gaze of my Enterprise-D portrait, with my Kirk vs Gorn figurines next to my PC speakers, having just looked up the train arrangements for my trip to the Destination Star Trek: Germany convention, typing on a Star Trek MMO forum, drinking a cup of tea given to me in my Star Trek mug by my Trekkie wife; it turns out that because I was born after 1969 I can't possibly be a true Star Trek fan.
Oh well, suppose I better hang up my combadge and accept the facts... -_-
Also, we all need to take a second and thank the guy for posting the logical fallacy page. That should be required reading for anyone who wants to log into a forum.
You're quite welcome. When it comes to helping rid the world of terrible arguments, every little bit helps IMO.
I encourage you to think harder on it then. But for now, I'll help you out.
Basically, your definition of a 'true Star Trek fan' comes from your own opinion of what it should mean, rather than the textbook definition of what a fan of Star Trek is. In other words, you imply that a certain type of Star Trek fan(in this case, fans that have started watching ST when it first aired in the '60s) is considered more 'true' than other Trek fans, when there is no objective facts to support that claim. It's just another case of presenting opinions as facts to argue.
someone else said it, Rick Bergman killed star trek as a franchise. with literally hundreds of really great, interesting novels out there, they came up with TRIBBLE like insurrection and nemisis. of course you can go back to TOS with that too, going band to anything after ST4
Brennon Braga is equally as guilty as Berman though. Their writing was so bad they managed to get Star Trek which had been on the air consistently for 18 years taken off air when Ent was cancelled.
Also they should totally do a animated series or comic or some form of media with Captain Data, the few times he got to command a ship in TNG he kicked all kinds of TRIBBLE.
If one likes Star Trek, then everyone in an unique way, is a true Star Trek fan.
- Me
I may partially think anyone who likes Star Wars [and Star Trek] is not a "true" fan, but honestly, that is pure BS. I refer you to my aforementioned quote.
According to this thread logic, I was born after ST:VIII , and before ST:E, and I got into Star Trek at 7, so that makes me the most un-True Star Trek fan here! All because I started watching ST (and before I liked SW - though I hate it now - and Dr Who - still thinking about it -) after it was cancelled.
I don't , and no one else here on the forum, needs to be told whether or not, one is a Star Trek fan.
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
Well, the last thing we know about the E, according to the timeline, is that it was sent to investigate Starbase Something Number. We also apparently know that Data is still alive.
Since two Enterprises cannot simultaneously exist as active, and if the ship had simply gone missing, Data would not be still with us as the former Captain, instead being lost in space somewhere, and they would not have immediately churned out an F. Furthermore, we know from in-game that the Sovereign class is very much still in service and that as a relatively recent build, it would not have been scrapped for obsolesence already.
Therefore, it stands to reason that the ship was destroyed in action. Either it was outright destroyed, or it was so mangled that it was effectively totalled. However, they're not allowed to discuss these details.
Devs said that they will take us to year 2410 in future seasons. I hope they will bring Brent Spiner to give voice to Data and make a FE where he becomes a captain of Enterprise again (while captain Shon gets new version of Belfast or becomes first officer at Enterprise).
When Iconians come, they will need experience that Data have + "true" and "almost true" fans will want to see Data in action and not at Oxford.
So myself who grew up around TOs, and enjoyed every tv series and movie (JJ's is debatable) that my vote doesn't count, and I am not considered a true fan? IMO if they made a profit despite not being the #1 box office hit is a sign of people liked it. Just because movies make number 1, doesn't mean they are great, it simply means they are good or completely blown out of proportion with advertising that you need see it or else. More people can relate to certain movies vs star trek so numbers can be low do to this as well.
It lost at the box office to the movie that were out when it was first released.to be blunt most true Trek fan didn't want anything to due with it anymore when Kirk was killed off in Generations.These were dihard fans that petitioned NBC to bring it back when it was cancelled in 69.
According to your own source, it was number 1 in the box office in its opening weekend and for its opening week.
And it wasn't until the following week, when 101 Dalmatians was released that it slipped to number 2. And the week after it slipped to number 3 when Daylight was released. On its 4th week of release it dropped to number 7 when Jerry Maguire, Mars Attacks, and The Preacher's Wife was released.
I'm sorry but your facts are wrong.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Know what I don't get. Why people DON'T like JJs version. Cause guess what it has ZERO bearing on what is cannon.
He basically did a spin off WHAT IF series of movies. I think it's an interesting take on Star Trek. So who cares what JJ does. He made his own little universe of Trek. So be it. Let him go play.
Long as it doesn't change what is really cannon, [and jesus what is cannon these days] does it really matter.
As far as Data coming back and taking over the Enterprise again, no just no. Huge disservice to Captain Shon who I believe has just as much right if not more to sit in the Captain's chair of the Enterprise.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Comments
That's not how it works. You made the assertion, therefore it's your job to back it up, smarty.
Yes, it is. You claimed First Contact lost money, then we proved you wrong. You then produced its ranking in box office earnings for the year, a fact completely irrelevant to whether or not it lost money.
And having watched TOS during its original run doesn't make you a true Trek fan either. For example, I could've potentially watched it during its original run because I was a TV critic whose job it was to review TV shows, and hated every minute of it. Or I could be somebody who knows every last detail of Prime!Kirk's life down to what he prefers to have for breakfast and yet be ten years old.
You don't get to decide who is and is not a true fan of anything.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yeah, well, I never had any respect for him to begin with because I saw the crud he called an "argument" the last time this topic came up.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Lol, i've been thinking something similar too.
How would the different TV shows look if they would took place in STO?
horrible, just horrible, lol. :eek:
@talonxv
I think Age03 referred more to the quality than to the commercial success of TNG movies.
Although i am a TNG fan, i really dislike TNG movies (ST:8 being somehow a exception). Everything that made TNG great, got ignored in their movies, so my enthusiasm for them is has its limits.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Its just the ups where a little higher, bigger explosions flashier things. Think of them more like 2 part episodes....
Anyway i have watched the entirety of Star Trek , every episode, every movie, the cartoons, sadly i have not yet read any of the books.
Im still not technically a true trek fan, cause true trek fans hate star warsa and its fans and sadly i love star wars too, and firefly, and babylon 5 and both battlestar galacticas, and andromeda, and a whole host of other scifi space shows.
So i guess i am atrue space fan :rolleyes:
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I like other Sci fi series too, but i think each one should keep whats making them unique.
(Cryptic does the exact opposite btw.)
I also watched TNG, DS9, most of VOY (I kind of dropped out after "Year of Hell" - why watch if nothing is ever going to change? It's like waiting for a dramatic development on Gilligan's Island!), and ENT.
I guess I'm not a True Trek Fan, though, because I liked First Contact. I thought Insurrection was rather weak, hated Nemesis for a lot of reasons (but largely Action Hero Picard), and liked the Abrams reboot as an alternate universe. I've been playing this game since shortly after it went F2P, and enjoy it for what it is (that is, what the Trekverse might have become if Roddenberry hadn't gone on that Utopian kick where suddenly there couldn't be any major conflicts on-screen).
Okay, this is STO... could you think of something even more unbelievable than dinos with lasers on their heads?
Fine, then state that. Don't say "they didn't make money at the box office." Plenty of proof otherwise.
I think the bigger reason that cast stopped after nemesis, many of them getting a tad old.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Where Are You Getting Your Facts????????
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
I will state the claim tos true trekie been watching star trek for well over 40 years I loved tos as a kid when tng came out I was there to enjoy it when ds9 came out had my pop corn and when voyager came out was there for it as well and when enterprize went on was there as well.
Then we lost any new star trek on tv and I was sad but then they brought it back on the big screen and geuss what I support it its star trek and i'll due my part as a fan to keep it going just like the wonderful game.
Fyi I am a true trekie but I love star wars just as much
Also, we all need to take a second and thank the guy for posting the logical fallacy page. That should be required reading for anyone who wants to log into a forum.
Both. The E disappeared in 2408 and returned in 2409. The ship was decommissioned and Data retired. IIRC, a backup of B-4's own matrix still exists, hence why Data is constructing a new body for him.
So they didnt all die in some far awy nebula because they let Troi drive? My entire life is a lie....:(
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm also not old enough to have seen the original run and on top of that I live in a country where they didn't start broadcasting it until 1972.
So I'm also not a true Trek fan.
they said the same of TNG when it first came out and yet its one of the most popular series out there in trek lore. DS9 was a success as was Voyager. there were simply situations that went out of the producers hands that cancelled TOS and ENT, these things happen.
There was also no way that Shatner could continue playing this role to his grave, of course kirk had to be killed off at some point, and if some fanboys dont want to accept that let em cry, the rest of the trek fandom will keep marching on.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Oh well, suppose I better hang up my combadge and accept the facts... -_-
Which reminds me.
I encourage you to think harder on it then. But for now, I'll help you out.
Basically, your definition of a 'true Star Trek fan' comes from your own opinion of what it should mean, rather than the textbook definition of what a fan of Star Trek is. In other words, you imply that a certain type of Star Trek fan(in this case, fans that have started watching ST when it first aired in the '60s) is considered more 'true' than other Trek fans, when there is no objective facts to support that claim. It's just another case of presenting opinions as facts to argue.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Brennon Braga is equally as guilty as Berman though. Their writing was so bad they managed to get Star Trek which had been on the air consistently for 18 years taken off air when Ent was cancelled.
Also they should totally do a animated series or comic or some form of media with Captain Data, the few times he got to command a ship in TNG he kicked all kinds of TRIBBLE.
I may partially think anyone who likes Star Wars [and Star Trek] is not a "true" fan, but honestly, that is pure BS. I refer you to my aforementioned quote.
According to this thread logic, I was born after ST:VIII , and before ST:E, and I got into Star Trek at 7, so that makes me the most un-True Star Trek fan here! All because I started watching ST (and before I liked SW - though I hate it now - and Dr Who - still thinking about it -) after it was cancelled.
I don't , and no one else here on the forum, needs to be told whether or not, one is a Star Trek fan.
I hope STO get's better ...
Since two Enterprises cannot simultaneously exist as active, and if the ship had simply gone missing, Data would not be still with us as the former Captain, instead being lost in space somewhere, and they would not have immediately churned out an F. Furthermore, we know from in-game that the Sovereign class is very much still in service and that as a relatively recent build, it would not have been scrapped for obsolesence already.
Therefore, it stands to reason that the ship was destroyed in action. Either it was outright destroyed, or it was so mangled that it was effectively totalled. However, they're not allowed to discuss these details.
When Iconians come, they will need experience that Data have + "true" and "almost true" fans will want to see Data in action and not at Oxford.
I'm only a vague fan, and from what I remember from back in the day, its that Brent Spiner's ego won't fit in the game.
That and he wrote Star Trek: Nemesis, and thus doesn't deserve the chance to redeem himself.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Why do you say that his ego won't fit in the game? As he would demand too much to sign the contract?
According to your own source, it was number 1 in the box office in its opening weekend and for its opening week.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=startrek8.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=startrek8.htm
And it wasn't until the following week, when 101 Dalmatians was released that it slipped to number 2. And the week after it slipped to number 3 when Daylight was released. On its 4th week of release it dropped to number 7 when Jerry Maguire, Mars Attacks, and The Preacher's Wife was released.
I'm sorry but your facts are wrong.
He basically did a spin off WHAT IF series of movies. I think it's an interesting take on Star Trek. So who cares what JJ does. He made his own little universe of Trek. So be it. Let him go play.
Long as it doesn't change what is really cannon, [and jesus what is cannon these days] does it really matter.
As far as Data coming back and taking over the Enterprise again, no just no. Huge disservice to Captain Shon who I believe has just as much right if not more to sit in the Captain's chair of the Enterprise.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
That is the most ignorant, insulting, and stupid thing I've ever heard in my life.
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