because my dream was to one day be a real life Admiral well when i was 16 i was hit by a dumptruck while I was riding a bicycle well my left foot was badly damaged and doctors had to take more then half of my left foot killing that dream and yes star trek had some to do with why i wanted to be a Admiral well 11 years later i kinda get to live that dream
The problem with "picture it in your head" is, that it is such a major breakdown of the game's illusion, which could be fixed with a rather minor text change.
That loss of immersion is just so unneccessary.
and warping into a box with in a box is not? starfleet officer using none starfleet ships is not? i can go on to make this Admiral thing look like a minor bug
because we are not playing real life trek sorry to be the one to tell you that
Alright, how about I just use in-game examples then?
The game literally starts off as us taking command of our starship at the rank of ensign, and getting permanent command of it at lieutenant. Why should our bridge officers have to be captain to command a ship when we could do it at lieutenant? In fact why should they even have to be commander or even lieutenant commander? If there's no reason to be captain, then why bother making us admirals?
All content currently in game makes perfect sense for captains to be doing, and likely all future content will likely make perfect sense for captains to be doing. Even putting bridge officers in command of our unused ships. Because by the games own logic: "we need every ship we can muster, even if it means it has to be captained by a lieutenant".
But you know what, I'll compromise. If Cryptic would put in a function that would allow us to choose what rank we're called in text boxes, etc., then I'm certain that for the vast majority of the people that are asking for captain to be max rank, it will become a non-issue.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Alright, how about I just use in-game examples then?
The game literally starts off as us taking command of our starship at the rank of ensign, and getting permanent command of it at lieutenant. Why should our bridge officers have to be captain to command a ship when we could do it at lieutenant? In fact why should they even have to be commander or even lieutenant commander? If there's no reason to be captain, then why bother making us admirals?
All content currently in game makes perfect sense for captains to be doing, and likely all future content will likely make perfect sense for captains to be doing. Even putting bridge officers in command of our unused ships. Because by the games own logic: "we need every ship we can muster, even if it means it has to be captained by a lieutenant".
But you know what, I'll compromise. If Cryptic would put in a function that would allow us to choose what rank we're called in text boxes, etc., then I'm certain that for the vast majority of the people that are asking for captain to be max rank, it will become a non-issue.
sorry i didnt see captain picard bug spraying or taging space bunnies
but ask for the NPC call you by what you would like im all for that but if its like some want it to be removed completely then we have problems
sorry i didnt see captain picard bug spraying or taging space bunnies
And it would make more sense for an admiral? Seriously? I get the feeling you're just trolling this thread, trying to make cyclical arguments. The "touching" life story a few posts back was a nice touch though.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
And it would make more sense for an admiral? Seriously? I get the feeling you're just trolling this thread, trying to make cyclical arguments. The "touching" life story a few posts back was a nice touch though.
if you would like i can post pics of what the foot looked like but they going to be for the not faint of hearts i can back up my story
because my dream was to one day be a real life Admiral well when i was 16 i was hit by a dumptruck while I was riding a bicycle well my left foot was badly damaged and doctors had to take more then half of my left foot killing that dream and yes star trek had some to do with why i wanted to be a Admiral well 11 years later i kinda get to live that dream
Wow, Things got real up in here. Did you ever serve at all?
I'm not against you or anyone else having access to the titles or the pips.
I just think it should be optional and it shouldn't default to being selected: ie. somebody who wants to be an admiral would just have to open their character window and select that at level 40.
That's it. I don't think it should be required that players answer to Admiral and I don't think the game should automatically label anybody one. I don't have any problem with somebody opening a window and saying "Yes, I am one."
I can do the same thing with the "Governor" or "Ambassador" title.
And it would make more sense for an admiral? Seriously? I get the feeling you're just trolling this thread, trying to make cyclical arguments. The "touching" life story a few posts back was a nice touch though.
Well, dude's got a lot of anger for anybody telling him that admiral pixels are silly and a bad game design so that comes from somewhere.
I had a cynical thought for half a second but it doesn't really change my stance that admiral is dumb, it's not going away, rank (in address, info box, and XP bar) should be optional, and I'm fine with admiral being selectable, just not default.
if you would like i can post pics of what the foot looked like but they going to be for the not faint of hearts i can back up my story
Oh, certainly. I enjoy looking at disfigured limbs!!! :D:D
/sarcasm
You do realize that with the internet you could just look up gruesome photos of disfigured body parts right? Showing me a picture of a disfigured foot shows no proof that its your disfigured foot. Probably the only way that you could prove it is to introduce yourself to me in real life and then show me your foot.
Well, dude's got a lot of anger for anybody telling him that admiral pixels are silly and a bad game design so that comes from somewhere.
I had a cynical thought for half a second but it doesn't really change my stance that admiral is dumb, it's not going away, rank (in address, info box, and XP bar) should be optional, and I'm fine with admiral being selectable, just not default.
Hell, I'm fine with admiral being default and us having to choose to be called captains. Other than that yes.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Wow, Things got real up in here. Did you ever serve at all?
I'm not against you or anyone else having access to the titles or the pips.
I just think it should be optional and it shouldn't default to being selected: ie. somebody who wants to be an admiral would just have to open their character window and select that at level 40.
That's it. I don't think it should be required that players answer to Admiral and I don't think the game should automatically label anybody one. I don't have any problem with somebody opening a window and saying "Yes, I am one."
I can do the same thing with the "Governor" or "Ambassador" title.
i was doing the Rotc at my high school at the time did a year of it at homebound school that was just mostly book work then i get back to school a years later and they kick me out saying i cant do the moves so i left school after that
and as i said before im all for NPC call you by your Title or what ever the player likes its just i get upset with some come in here more or less saying it should be removed
Oh, certainly. I enjoy looking at disfigured limbs!!! :D:D
/sarcasm
You do realize that with the internet you could just look up gruesome photos of disfigured body parts right? Showing me a picture of a disfigured foot shows no proof that its your disfigured foot. Probably the only way that you could prove it is to introduce yourself to me in real life and then show me your foot.
trust me i dont have to lie about this why i dont have a life or job also i do have a cam that can do vids but you have to be on my FB for that
All of those things were done by Captains in the shows.
Admirals tend to focus more on paperwork, teaching, etc.
Going to have to remind me of an episode where Captain Kirk or Captain Picard ordered a Captain to scan some stellar phenomenon or delivery medicine to a colony. They might ask help from another Captain, but they never ordered other Captains around when they were Captains.
Admirals don't focus on paperwork, teaching, etc or at least most don't. Admirals determine where Captains go, determine strategy for combat situations, determine policy for the fleet, and other important tasks.
i was doing the Rotc at my high school at the time did a year of it at homebound school that was just mostly book work then i get back to school a years later and they kick me out saying i cant do the moves so i left school after that
and as i said before im all for NPC call you by your Title or what ever the player likes its just i get upset with some come in here more or less saying it should be removed
trust me i dont have to lie about this why i dont have a life or job also i do have a cam that can do vids but you have to be on my FB for that
Look, I'm willing to believe that you lost half your foot, etc. I was in JROTC too. The flyboy version (Air Force). Considering that you wanted to be in the navy I'm guessing that you were a squid? Or were you in the army version (I forget what their nickname was, I think it was mud-dogs?)? How about we continue this conversation in Ten-Forward tomorrow, so that this thread doesn't get locked.
As for having the option to be called captain in text boxes/windows, etc., I stated that in half my posts in this thread that I would be all for that. Even the one that you responded with "sorry i didnt see captain picard bug spraying or taging space bunnies". I even said that it would probably make this a non-issue for a majority of people that are making it an issue.
The real issue is that Cryptic in its infinite wisdom can make all of one side happy and a majority of the other side happy, but they are content with making one side happy and the other not.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Truthfully, we don't see what your "average" admiral actually did in Star Trek. All of the TV shows were from a different vantage point. Thus "immersion" complaints related to "but admirals don't do X" are kinda silly since they're based more on head canon than anything else.
Admiral Decker, from TOS (the planet killer episode) was Captain Decker's father.
You mean Commodore Decker? :P
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
The solution to all of this is Tres Simple' and already exists in game (since it's unlikely that you will ever see Admiral removed). In ST:TOS the highest rank we ever saw in actual command of a Star Ship was Commodore. Commodore Matt Decker in command of the USS Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine". Let's go with that as our canon. If you look at the rank-on-sleeve in-game for what is called the Tier 1 Admiral rank it is the same as the Commodore rank on Decker's sleeves. Call that rank Commodore. traditionally a ship's Commander is called "Captain", regardless of pay-grade. You can select "Captain" as your title (the title that appears above your head). So... set your rank at first level Admiral (which is actually Commodore), set your title to Captain... and assume your pay-grade is that of Admiral because... well... you're JUST that damn good! The next Capt. Kirk! When they address you as Admiral in game they're referring to your pay-grade as a display of admiration and respect. Other places in the game you still get referred to as Captain. It's not perfect but it's close enough and probably the best you're gonna get heheheheh :cool:
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
Bottom line is, Admirals, or rather Vice Admirals in our case, our HIGHLY privileged Captains of our own ships, infact if you pay attention to the TNG series, there is this female Vice Admiral that Picard is sometimes visited by in person who commands her own personally chosen Excelsior Class cruiser, that is HER personal ship. As a result there would be no captain on that ship because she is its dedicated commanding officer.
Actually, in the series, we never see any Admiral commanding their ship. By Naval tradition going back centuries the Admiral may well have a ship (a Flag Ship) at their disposal. But that ship will, in fact, have a Captain. The Admiral does not command the ship. The Captain commands the ship and the Admiral commands the Captain.
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
The question becomes "What if any, is Starfleet's maritime origin based upon?" If it's civil service, then the person in charge would be addressed as "Captain" If it's based upon naval tradition, the person in charge would be Commander, or acting Commander. Or informally, as "skipper". This goes back to the age of sail, when the person in charge, was formally referred to as the ship's "Master and Commander". No one is ever called, or referred to in the Navy, as "Captain", unless they are actually an O-6.
Umm incorrect. If a LTcmdr or Cmdr is the commander of a ship, they get the courtesy of being called a "captain".
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Umm... no they don't. This is not naval policy. They're addressed as either "Lieutenant Commander" or "Commander". To do otherwise is a violation of the UCMJ. You're confusing this with the practice of, if there are two actual Captains on a ship, only the one who has command of the vessel, is addressed as "The Captain". Should a Captain come aboard a vessel that already has a Commander in charge, the captain will defer command to the Commander, (unless the Captain's orders are specifically to take command of the vessel) however the crew does not address the Commander as Captain when this happens.
I think what Talon meant was that DS9: "Behind the Lines" states that Starfleet protocol is that whomever is in command of the ship, regardless of rank, is to be addressed as "Captain".
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'll add that while current CBS policy appears to be that Commodore is a rank of the same paygrade as Rear Admiral Lower Half which was retired after TOS in favor of RALH...
There was a prolific fan interpretation (which I think may have made it into a role playing game) which held that Commodore was a distinct rank from RALH in Starfleet and was not based on the title's use in naval tradition, similar to other Trek "fantasy ranks" like Deputy Director and Fleet Captain.
It was represented by a five pip TNG collar in references such as the FASA manual.
As I understand it...
Commodores are any Captains with multiple commands in Star Trek, totally removed from the term's naval tradition. (This was a running thing that Peter David did in the novels.) This would theoretically also be the title of address for any Captain aboard another Captain's ship who has been authorized to give that Captain orders. It might extend to Admirals serving aboard a flagship who have a Captain subservient to them in charge of the vessel. (As such, most of the Commodores seen happened to be RALH but the title is an honorific for any commander who serves aboard a flagship with a Captain underneath them or over a group of ships which they actively serve on. Following this reading, Starfleet Commodores are an honorific title albeit one that it may be regulation to use, technically.)
Fleet Captain in turn is a decorated captain who is considered to be senior to some admirals in rank. Conjecturally, this would be three solid stripes in TOS or five pips in TNG, per multiple unrelated licensed sources. We never see a Fleet Captain in uniform with rank insignia since Pike is promoted to the role after handing command to Kirk.
It remains a valid question whether Garth of Izar's blue jumpsuit is a Starfleet uniform pre-Pike, post-Kelvin. There's some evidence for this in its reuses. In any case, it'd be hard to determine what rank insignia if any were in use there, especially since Garth dresses up with gaudy additions.
I do lean towards the idea of FC as a parallel rank that would be three stripes or five pips. Probably a Captain completely outside the admiralty's structure who reports directly to the Fleet Admiral. (And in theory there is only supposed to be one of these for the entirety of Starfleet but we're already past that limit with NPCs I think.) But I'd imagine a FC reports directly to whoever the senior most Starfleet official is under the Federation President, is outside the command structure of admirals altogether in terms of CoC.
Umm... no they don't. This is not naval policy. They're addressed as either "Lieutenant Commander" or "Commander". To do otherwise is a violation of the UCMJ. You're confusing this with the practice of, if there are two actual Captains on a ship, only the one who has command of the vessel, is addressed as "The Captain". Should a Captain come aboard a vessel that already has a Commander in charge, the captain will defer command to the Commander, (unless the Captain's orders are specifically to take command of the vessel) however the crew does not address the Commander as Captain when this happens.
Well, according to The Naval Officer's Guide (Vice Adm. William P. Mack, USN (Ret); Capt. Harry A. Seymour, Jr, USN (Ret); & CDR Lesa A. McComas, USN):
By custom, one person in any ship or organization is properly referred to as "the captain", and that is the CO regardless of his or her actual rank. Likewise, the XO is referred to as "the commander". You should address other captains or commanders attached to the ship or station by their rank and name, for example, "Commander Jones."
I personally think that leveling rank should not be associated with Captain, Admiral rank etc since the content will grow and the current one deals with this badly. I also would like to say I dislike to rank Admiral as I don't see my characters as being one.
The other problem with tying character rank to level is, what happens if they try to raise the level cap past 70? Because fleet admiral is the highest naval rank that exists. What do they promote you to then, Secretary of Starfleet? (They may not raise the cap any more considering Cryptic's remarks about not wanting to invalidate people's grinding by obsoleting their Mk12 gear, but we all know how often what Cryptic says they want, and then actually do, fail to match up.)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I don't mind being called "Admiral", but I do mind being called "Rear Admiral" or "Vice Admiral" or for that matter "Lieutenant junior grade" or "Lieutenant Commander". The current standard is to drop the modifier, so it's "Admiral", "Lieutenant", or "Commander" respectively. But, it's only an irritation to me so I'm not going to require that Cryptic make the fix immediately.
Actually, on occasion, you can be referred to as "Lieutenant jg" in the Navy, but it's rare.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Comments
because my dream was to one day be a real life Admiral well when i was 16 i was hit by a dumptruck while I was riding a bicycle well my left foot was badly damaged and doctors had to take more then half of my left foot killing that dream and yes star trek had some to do with why i wanted to be a Admiral well 11 years later i kinda get to live that dream
system Lord Baal is dead
and warping into a box with in a box is not? starfleet officer using none starfleet ships is not? i can go on to make this Admiral thing look like a minor bug
system Lord Baal is dead
This.^^^^^
Alright, how about I just use in-game examples then?
The game literally starts off as us taking command of our starship at the rank of ensign, and getting permanent command of it at lieutenant. Why should our bridge officers have to be captain to command a ship when we could do it at lieutenant? In fact why should they even have to be commander or even lieutenant commander? If there's no reason to be captain, then why bother making us admirals?
All content currently in game makes perfect sense for captains to be doing, and likely all future content will likely make perfect sense for captains to be doing. Even putting bridge officers in command of our unused ships. Because by the games own logic: "we need every ship we can muster, even if it means it has to be captained by a lieutenant".
But you know what, I'll compromise. If Cryptic would put in a function that would allow us to choose what rank we're called in text boxes, etc., then I'm certain that for the vast majority of the people that are asking for captain to be max rank, it will become a non-issue.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
sorry i didnt see captain picard bug spraying or taging space bunnies
but ask for the NPC call you by what you would like im all for that but if its like some want it to be removed completely then we have problems
system Lord Baal is dead
And it would make more sense for an admiral? Seriously? I get the feeling you're just trolling this thread, trying to make cyclical arguments. The "touching" life story a few posts back was a nice touch though.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
if you would like i can post pics of what the foot looked like but they going to be for the not faint of hearts i can back up my story
system Lord Baal is dead
Wow, Things got real up in here. Did you ever serve at all?
I'm not against you or anyone else having access to the titles or the pips.
I just think it should be optional and it shouldn't default to being selected: ie. somebody who wants to be an admiral would just have to open their character window and select that at level 40.
That's it. I don't think it should be required that players answer to Admiral and I don't think the game should automatically label anybody one. I don't have any problem with somebody opening a window and saying "Yes, I am one."
I can do the same thing with the "Governor" or "Ambassador" title.
Well, dude's got a lot of anger for anybody telling him that admiral pixels are silly and a bad game design so that comes from somewhere.
I had a cynical thought for half a second but it doesn't really change my stance that admiral is dumb, it's not going away, rank (in address, info box, and XP bar) should be optional, and I'm fine with admiral being selectable, just not default.
Oh, certainly. I enjoy looking at disfigured limbs!!!
/sarcasm
You do realize that with the internet you could just look up gruesome photos of disfigured body parts right? Showing me a picture of a disfigured foot shows no proof that its your disfigured foot. Probably the only way that you could prove it is to introduce yourself to me in real life and then show me your foot.
Hell, I'm fine with admiral being default and us having to choose to be called captains. Other than that yes.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
i was doing the Rotc at my high school at the time did a year of it at homebound school that was just mostly book work then i get back to school a years later and they kick me out saying i cant do the moves so i left school after that
and as i said before im all for NPC call you by your Title or what ever the player likes its just i get upset with some come in here more or less saying it should be removed
system Lord Baal is dead
trust me i dont have to lie about this why i dont have a life or job also i do have a cam that can do vids but you have to be on my FB for that
system Lord Baal is dead
Going to have to remind me of an episode where Captain Kirk or Captain Picard ordered a Captain to scan some stellar phenomenon or delivery medicine to a colony. They might ask help from another Captain, but they never ordered other Captains around when they were Captains.
Admirals don't focus on paperwork, teaching, etc or at least most don't. Admirals determine where Captains go, determine strategy for combat situations, determine policy for the fleet, and other important tasks.
Look, I'm willing to believe that you lost half your foot, etc. I was in JROTC too. The flyboy version (Air Force). Considering that you wanted to be in the navy I'm guessing that you were a squid? Or were you in the army version (I forget what their nickname was, I think it was mud-dogs?)? How about we continue this conversation in Ten-Forward tomorrow, so that this thread doesn't get locked.
As for having the option to be called captain in text boxes/windows, etc., I stated that in half my posts in this thread that I would be all for that. Even the one that you responded with "sorry i didnt see captain picard bug spraying or taging space bunnies". I even said that it would probably make this a non-issue for a majority of people that are making it an issue.
The real issue is that Cryptic in its infinite wisdom can make all of one side happy and a majority of the other side happy, but they are content with making one side happy and the other not.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
My character Tsin'xing
You mean Commodore Decker? :P
Actually, in the series, we never see any Admiral commanding their ship. By Naval tradition going back centuries the Admiral may well have a ship (a Flag Ship) at their disposal. But that ship will, in fact, have a Captain. The Admiral does not command the ship. The Captain commands the ship and the Admiral commands the Captain.
Umm incorrect. If a LTcmdr or Cmdr is the commander of a ship, they get the courtesy of being called a "captain".
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I think what Talon meant was that DS9: "Behind the Lines" states that Starfleet protocol is that whomever is in command of the ship, regardless of rank, is to be addressed as "Captain".
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
There was a prolific fan interpretation (which I think may have made it into a role playing game) which held that Commodore was a distinct rank from RALH in Starfleet and was not based on the title's use in naval tradition, similar to other Trek "fantasy ranks" like Deputy Director and Fleet Captain.
It was represented by a five pip TNG collar in references such as the FASA manual.
As I understand it...
Commodores are any Captains with multiple commands in Star Trek, totally removed from the term's naval tradition. (This was a running thing that Peter David did in the novels.) This would theoretically also be the title of address for any Captain aboard another Captain's ship who has been authorized to give that Captain orders. It might extend to Admirals serving aboard a flagship who have a Captain subservient to them in charge of the vessel. (As such, most of the Commodores seen happened to be RALH but the title is an honorific for any commander who serves aboard a flagship with a Captain underneath them or over a group of ships which they actively serve on. Following this reading, Starfleet Commodores are an honorific title albeit one that it may be regulation to use, technically.)
Fleet Captain in turn is a decorated captain who is considered to be senior to some admirals in rank. Conjecturally, this would be three solid stripes in TOS or five pips in TNG, per multiple unrelated licensed sources. We never see a Fleet Captain in uniform with rank insignia since Pike is promoted to the role after handing command to Kirk.
It remains a valid question whether Garth of Izar's blue jumpsuit is a Starfleet uniform pre-Pike, post-Kelvin. There's some evidence for this in its reuses. In any case, it'd be hard to determine what rank insignia if any were in use there, especially since Garth dresses up with gaudy additions.
I do lean towards the idea of FC as a parallel rank that would be three stripes or five pips. Probably a Captain completely outside the admiralty's structure who reports directly to the Fleet Admiral. (And in theory there is only supposed to be one of these for the entirety of Starfleet but we're already past that limit with NPCs I think.) But I'd imagine a FC reports directly to whoever the senior most Starfleet official is under the Federation President, is outside the command structure of admirals altogether in terms of CoC.
link.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Commodore Decker, actually. (Have both the original and the remaster on my hard drive, lol)
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
OMG this was just too cool. +10 cool points to you goodsir!
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Actually, on occasion, you can be referred to as "Lieutenant jg" in the Navy, but it's rare.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"