The Borg has to be defeated or controlled at some point or else the 29th Century Federation would not exist. The first Department of Temporal Investigations novel stated that the Temporal Cold War experienced a cease fire between the creation of the Federation and the Caeliar incident so no temporal organization could interfere with the elimination of the Borg.
Hehehe.... *images the Temporal cold War with the Borg as a main player*
My story idea (T'Kon vs Iconia) is based on a bit of retcon and the premise that archeology of advanced civilizations could be inaccurate... and maybe the people talking on screen were just plain wrong.
In the end it's head-canon nothing more. I am fully aware of what was said on screen, and I changed it around to tell a better/different story.
I hapen to think that the Borg might just appear sooner than we think in regards to the Dyson Sphere.
In the cutscenes, Exil does say that the Voth resisted other(s) trying to add the Voth to their own, wich is exactly what the Borg would do, assimilate other beings like the Voth into the Collective.
That, and the fact that the weapons fire shown is very Borg to my eyes.
The only others I could possibly see would be our old pals, the Tal'Shiar, but that would be a stretch imo.
So yeah, the Borg will come, one way or the other, to get their "prescious" Omega...
If it's the Borg, I shall rejoice. More Borg butts to kick is always nice.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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You are over thinking it, again. None of this is relevant. The Borg originated as organic beings who evolved to incorporate technology into themselves in a pursuit of what they saw as "perfection"... technology.
He is not overthinking it.
You are underthinking it.
I hapen to think that the Borg might just appear sooner than we think in regards to the Dyson Sphere.
In the cutscenes, Exil does say that the Voth resisted other(s) trying to add the Voth to their own, wich is exactly what the Borg would do, assimilate other beings like the Voth into the Collective.
That, and the fact that the weapons fire shown is very Borg to my eyes.
The only others I could possibly see would be our old pals, the Tal'Shiar, but that would be a stretch imo.
So yeah, the Borg will come, one way or the other, to get their "prescious" Omega...
I agree that the high chance is the borg.
I'd love to see a new Borg arc, perhaps up against a Borg who have assimilated something I'd rather they hadn't.
Dinosaurs with fricking lasers on their heads and nanites, anyone?
Voyager butchered the Borg. No reason Cryptic has to stand by those attrocities.
If they need an explanation to make the Borg more powerful again, they just have to let them assimilate something awesome (eg omega particles) and Bingo.
Borg are a real, scary, overpowered force of nature again like they should be and should never have ceased to be.
Again your statement is simply FALSE, because Borg are, inherently flawed by DESIGN.
A species which is unable to do research and advance on their own, is doomed to fail,
the Undine would have already wiped the borg out without any problem, if not for janeway.
Borg are still using that bohoring kinetic cutting beam as a major weapon, yet, everybody and their grandmother should have developed a working defense against that TRIBBLE.
But the borg CAN NOT build something more effective, they could only assimilate something which would bring the tech in the collective and thats not gonna happen, because the federation, the klingons and the romulans are allready WAY to advanced for the borg.
It was an arms race with the borg having a headstart, which they lost, because, sadly, they have no legs and cant leave the starting position.
No, I'm not and as I said before, there is a difference between canon and wishful thinking.
You can recton almost everything if you put enough effort to it... the line was clearly meant as you are saying, but that doesn't mean that Cryptic (or whoever) can't retcon it into something more fitting for their storyline.
The Borg have been around long enough to proof your statement wrong.
Voyager's "The Borg can't develop stuff" was a plot device to make the Voyager important to them. The Borg are very capable in combining technology they assmilate.
Species x got technology x. Species y got technology y. But species x never got technology y and vice versa.
Borg assimilate both and create the xy gun.
See how that should work?
Oh, and your cutting beam argument doesn't make sense either. It's a weapon type that can be advanced, modified and I don't know what.
And to top is of: I wasn't even talking about in-universe arguments.
I was talking about presentation and atmosphere that should go with the Borg.
Because every decent writer can retcon the Borg to whatever he/she wants.
Why not using that and making them scary again?
And get rid of the Caps lock, my eyes are quite GOOD.
The Borg probably make the most sense... followed by maybe the Krenim... outside chance that it's the newly phage-free Vidiians.
I'd like to see what the Vidiians are up to now that they're cured, but I also want to see the Borg re-asserted as STO's real 'big bad'. I just hope it's not the Krenim.
You know, at some point, the Borg do have to go down. It is hard to imagine reaching the year 3000 reality depicted in Enterprise with the Borg still devouring the galaxy.
I'm not entirely convinced. The Borg would likely become pests, because they stretch across a vast distance, and because they are so many, if you take one part of them out, they'll just continue on elsewhere. To launch an attack on the entire collective ... I'm not convinced that would be possible. At best, all any species (or group of species) could do is hold them at bay for a time.
Then again, what is to say the Borg can't evolve, or change their plan? At the moment, they're all about assimilation. Humanity was once about conquering. We changed. Why couldn't the Borg? By the 30th Century they could be an open-minded collective who allow people to come and leave at will.
My point exactly, a long series of catastrophic wars would easily explain why they migrated all the way to the delta quadrant. This was something that was left up to the imagination of future writers in the TV show.There is one question that must be answered above all else for an origin of the Borg to make sense. Why is the Borg Queen a member of Species 125?
Also, the queen told 7 that her race had been assimilated. Thus we know that her race was not the first to be Borg.
From my understanding, the Borg only have one Queen at any given time, and if she falls, then another is elected. The Queen we saw in Voyager was merely the next to speak for the Collective.
Following End Game the Borg were dealt a significant blow, but they only lost a bunch of hubs, a few ten-thousand drones and a queen. That's got to be a very small portion of their Armada.
A species which is unable to do research and advance on their own, is doomed to fail, the Undine would have already wiped the borg out without any problem, if not for janeway.
Except the Borg are capable of research. They merely acquire it and then put it to use. They combine new technology to their own.
Borg are still using that bohoring kinetic cutting beam as a major weapon, yet, everybody and their grandmother should have developed a working defense against that TRIBBLE.
The Borg Adapt. It's no different from the Federation using a Mk III Photon Torpedo and then upgrading to a Mk IV to make it better. The Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam would have been updated too, that's why they're still using it, no? They're quicker at adapting than we are. That's how their built.
the sto borg is the lame stuff you get during the omega ground rep grind. if you like the borg as space opponents do the omega pvp at elite. its boring and too long. the idea of a borg voth conflict only means sto is going to force the voth upon us as the promised new playable faction to join the battle against the borg. are we not already doing the now with the Klingon federation join fleet. boring. I hope im wrong and sto comes up with new storylines for season 10 that don't include the borg or the voth.
I'm not entirely convinced. The Borg would likely become pests, because they stretch across a vast distance, and because they are so many, if you take one part of them out, they'll just continue on elsewhere. To launch an attack on the entire collective ... I'm not convinced that would be possible. At best, all any species (or group of species) could do is hold them at bay for a time.
Then again, what is to say the Borg can't evolve, or change their plan? At the moment, they're all about assimilation. Humanity was once about conquering. We changed. Why couldn't the Borg? By the 30th Century they could be an open-minded collective who allow people to come and leave at will.
The Borg are victims of their own marketing, in part because I think they cater to an audience that the rest of Star Trek doesn't.
It takes on the zombie/survivalist dimension of mowing down friends and colleagues while also becoming something akin to mowing down Commies. When the rest of Trek (Ferengi and Klingons aside) is a fantasy about doing Communism right.
The Borg are an awkward fit. And if you change them, you alienate the people who were there just for the Borg.
I think changing them and adding a Queen was essential to making a conventional 90 minute Syd Fields three act Hollywood movie about them. They needed to have a face or the movie couldn't work to Hollywood standards. They needed to assimilate victims quickly to move the plot along. But it STILL upsets people.
Fans are allergic to all kinds of change in Star Trek but, in the end, you could have a Klingon sipping tea and quoting Elizabethan poetry. You can have a Federation with Jem'Hadar and Gorn crewmen. You just need the spirit of what works about Trek behind those changes.
Try doing something dynamic with the Borg and people complain. Do nothing dynamic with the Borg and they become stale and undercut what Trek is about.
Part of Trek is that you have an enemy or outsider from the last series on the crew of the next series.
Enterprise - Vulcans are doubters, Xindi are enemies. We see a future of Xindi in Starfleet.
TOS - Vulcans are in, Klingons are out.
TNG - Klingons are in, Romulans are sympathetic (and we see a part-Romulan in Starfleet), Bajorans are on the fringe, Ferengi, Maquis, and Borg are out.
DS9 - Bajorans and Ferengi are in. Cardassians and Jem'Hadar are out.
Voyager - Borg and Maquis are in, Talaxians and Ocampa are on the fringe, Kazon, Species 8472, and Hirogen were out.
Follow the trend. The next series would probably have Romulans, Xindi, Hirogen, and Cardassians on friendly terms with Starfleet (if not serving in it) and new enemies.
I can see right now a show with a Hirogen tactical officer and a Cardassian ops officer (and a Xindi enlisted officer and maybe a recurring minor Borg officer). Probably with a half-Romulan engineer. It's the direction things go in.
But I feel like resistance from Klingon and Borg fans (and to a lesser extent Romulans) stifles the progress of the show.
I think for it to be Trek, you have to radically shake up the Borg status quo. But it means being willing to torpedo the reasons people like the Borg to do it. If you don't torpedo the Borg's status quo, you're untrue to Trek. If you don't keep or reaffirm the Borg's status, it's untrue to the Borg's appeal.
The Borg are victims of their own marketing, in part because I think they cater to an audience that the rest of Star Trek doesn't.
It takes on the zombie/survivalist dimension of mowing down friends and colleagues while also becoming something akin to mowing down Commies. When the rest of Trek (Ferengi and Klingons aside) is a fantasy about doing Communism right.
The Borg are an awkward fit. And if you change them, you alienate the people who were there just for the Borg.
I think changing them and adding a Queen was essential to making a conventional 90 minute Syd Fields three act Hollywood movie about them. They needed to have a face or the movie couldn't work to Hollywood standards. They needed to assimilate victims quickly to move the plot along. But it STILL upsets people.
Fans are allergic to all kinds of change in Star Trek but, in the end, you could have a Klingon sipping tea and quoting Elizabethan poetry. You can have a Federation with Jem'Hadar and Gorn crewmen. You just need the spirit of what works about Trek behind those changes.
Try doing something dynamic with the Borg and people complain. Do nothing dynamic with the Borg and they become stale and undercut what Trek is about.
Part of Trek is that you have an enemy or outsider from the last series on the crew of the next series.
Enterprise - Vulcans are doubters, Xindi are enemies. We see a future of Xindi in Starfleet.
TOS - Vulcans are in, Klingons are out.
TNG - Klingons are in, Romulans are sympathetic (and we see a part-Romulan in Starfleet), Bajorans are on the fringe, Ferengi, Maquis, and Borg are out.
DS9 - Bajorans and Ferengi are in. Cardassians and Jem'Hadar are out.
Voyager - Borg and Maquis are in, Talaxians and Ocampa are on the fringe, Kazon, Species 8472, and Hirogen were out.
Follow the trend. The next series would probably have Romulans, Xindi, Hirogen, and Cardassians on friendly terms with Starfleet (if not serving in it) and new enemies.
I can see right now a show with a Hirogen tactical officer and a Cardassian ops officer (and a Xindi enlisted officer and maybe a recurring minor Borg officer). Probably with a half-Romulan engineer. It's the direction things go in.
But I feel like resistance from Klingon and Borg fans (and to a lesser extent Romulans) stifles the progress of the show.
You are constructing an automatism where there is no need for one.
Not everyone has to be assimilated into the Federation. The very thought sickens me, to be honest.
Yeah, there is a pattern. But nobody, not the books, games, shows or anyone else making Trek stuff, has to continue it.
Look at the novels. Andoria for example terminated its membership. (and I don't even really like those novels...)
No, I'm not and as I said before, there is a difference between canon and wishful thinking. Watch ST:FC again and listen to the Borg Queen's dialogue. She isn't referring to herself or her individual species or whatever. She is talking about the Borg Collective.
Her dialogue is quite clear.
Yes, The Borg Queen was quite clear when she mentioned having been assimilated at a young age. Like I said before, she's a member of either the 125th or 124th species assimilated by the Borg. What species was first?
From my understanding, the Borg only have one Queen at any given time, and if she falls, then another is elected. The Queen we saw in Voyager was merely the next to speak for the Collective.
That is non-canon, AFAIK it came from either a book or videogame.
Comments
Never mind... that wouldn't be a cold war.... :P
My character Tsin'xing
In the end it's head-canon nothing more. I am fully aware of what was said on screen, and I changed it around to tell a better/different story.
In the cutscenes, Exil does say that the Voth resisted other(s) trying to add the Voth to their own, wich is exactly what the Borg would do, assimilate other beings like the Voth into the Collective.
That, and the fact that the weapons fire shown is very Borg to my eyes.
The only others I could possibly see would be our old pals, the Tal'Shiar, but that would be a stretch imo.
So yeah, the Borg will come, one way or the other, to get their "prescious" Omega...
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He is not overthinking it.
You are underthinking it.
I agree that the high chance is the borg.
I'd love to see a new Borg arc, perhaps up against a Borg who have assimilated something I'd rather they hadn't.
Dinosaurs with fricking lasers on their heads and nanites, anyone?
No, thank you.
I can live without Borg-dinosaurs.
The Gorn on Defera is ... enough.
Again your statement is simply FALSE, because Borg are, inherently flawed by DESIGN.
A species which is unable to do research and advance on their own, is doomed to fail,
the Undine would have already wiped the borg out without any problem, if not for janeway.
Borg are still using that bohoring kinetic cutting beam as a major weapon, yet, everybody and their grandmother should have developed a working defense against that TRIBBLE.
But the borg CAN NOT build something more effective, they could only assimilate something which would bring the tech in the collective and thats not gonna happen, because the federation, the klingons and the romulans are allready WAY to advanced for the borg.
It was an arms race with the borg having a headstart, which they lost, because, sadly, they have no legs and cant leave the starting position.
You can recton almost everything if you put enough effort to it... the line was clearly meant as you are saying, but that doesn't mean that Cryptic (or whoever) can't retcon it into something more fitting for their storyline.
@oschw:
The Borg have been around long enough to proof your statement wrong.
Voyager's "The Borg can't develop stuff" was a plot device to make the Voyager important to them. The Borg are very capable in combining technology they assmilate.
Species x got technology x. Species y got technology y. But species x never got technology y and vice versa.
Borg assimilate both and create the xy gun.
See how that should work?
Oh, and your cutting beam argument doesn't make sense either. It's a weapon type that can be advanced, modified and I don't know what.
And to top is of: I wasn't even talking about in-universe arguments.
I was talking about presentation and atmosphere that should go with the Borg.
Because every decent writer can retcon the Borg to whatever he/she wants.
Why not using that and making them scary again?
And get rid of the Caps lock, my eyes are quite GOOD.
I'd like to see what the Vidiians are up to now that they're cured, but I also want to see the Borg re-asserted as STO's real 'big bad'. I just hope it's not the Krenim.
I'm not entirely convinced. The Borg would likely become pests, because they stretch across a vast distance, and because they are so many, if you take one part of them out, they'll just continue on elsewhere. To launch an attack on the entire collective ... I'm not convinced that would be possible. At best, all any species (or group of species) could do is hold them at bay for a time.
Then again, what is to say the Borg can't evolve, or change their plan? At the moment, they're all about assimilation. Humanity was once about conquering. We changed. Why couldn't the Borg? By the 30th Century they could be an open-minded collective who allow people to come and leave at will.
From my understanding, the Borg only have one Queen at any given time, and if she falls, then another is elected. The Queen we saw in Voyager was merely the next to speak for the Collective.
Following End Game the Borg were dealt a significant blow, but they only lost a bunch of hubs, a few ten-thousand drones and a queen. That's got to be a very small portion of their Armada.
Except the Borg are capable of research. They merely acquire it and then put it to use. They combine new technology to their own.
The Borg Adapt. It's no different from the Federation using a Mk III Photon Torpedo and then upgrading to a Mk IV to make it better. The Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam would have been updated too, that's why they're still using it, no? They're quicker at adapting than we are. That's how their built.
The Borg are victims of their own marketing, in part because I think they cater to an audience that the rest of Star Trek doesn't.
It takes on the zombie/survivalist dimension of mowing down friends and colleagues while also becoming something akin to mowing down Commies. When the rest of Trek (Ferengi and Klingons aside) is a fantasy about doing Communism right.
The Borg are an awkward fit. And if you change them, you alienate the people who were there just for the Borg.
I think changing them and adding a Queen was essential to making a conventional 90 minute Syd Fields three act Hollywood movie about them. They needed to have a face or the movie couldn't work to Hollywood standards. They needed to assimilate victims quickly to move the plot along. But it STILL upsets people.
Fans are allergic to all kinds of change in Star Trek but, in the end, you could have a Klingon sipping tea and quoting Elizabethan poetry. You can have a Federation with Jem'Hadar and Gorn crewmen. You just need the spirit of what works about Trek behind those changes.
Try doing something dynamic with the Borg and people complain. Do nothing dynamic with the Borg and they become stale and undercut what Trek is about.
Part of Trek is that you have an enemy or outsider from the last series on the crew of the next series.
Enterprise - Vulcans are doubters, Xindi are enemies. We see a future of Xindi in Starfleet.
TOS - Vulcans are in, Klingons are out.
TNG - Klingons are in, Romulans are sympathetic (and we see a part-Romulan in Starfleet), Bajorans are on the fringe, Ferengi, Maquis, and Borg are out.
DS9 - Bajorans and Ferengi are in. Cardassians and Jem'Hadar are out.
Voyager - Borg and Maquis are in, Talaxians and Ocampa are on the fringe, Kazon, Species 8472, and Hirogen were out.
Follow the trend. The next series would probably have Romulans, Xindi, Hirogen, and Cardassians on friendly terms with Starfleet (if not serving in it) and new enemies.
I can see right now a show with a Hirogen tactical officer and a Cardassian ops officer (and a Xindi enlisted officer and maybe a recurring minor Borg officer). Probably with a half-Romulan engineer. It's the direction things go in.
But I feel like resistance from Klingon and Borg fans (and to a lesser extent Romulans) stifles the progress of the show.
I think for it to be Trek, you have to radically shake up the Borg status quo. But it means being willing to torpedo the reasons people like the Borg to do it. If you don't torpedo the Borg's status quo, you're untrue to Trek. If you don't keep or reaffirm the Borg's status, it's untrue to the Borg's appeal.
You are constructing an automatism where there is no need for one.
Not everyone has to be assimilated into the Federation. The very thought sickens me, to be honest.
Yeah, there is a pattern. But nobody, not the books, games, shows or anyone else making Trek stuff, has to continue it.
Look at the novels. Andoria for example terminated its membership. (and I don't even really like those novels...)
My character Tsin'xing