Oh yes, I fly around with an Excelsior skin on my Exeter all the time. :rolleyes:
What? They are both ships that follow the design parameters of the Constitution while not being one. They have engineering hulls with two warp nacelles and a neck that connects to a saucer section. If CBS has a problem with ships that look remotely like a Constitution the Excelsior would have to go too.
Seriously though, I think the CBS veto is the main reason they haven't done/don't seem to want to do it. I mean, we the players don't know the exact wording of what CBS said, and even beyond that just by being associated so closely with the Constitution refit it seems like they might fall into a sort of grey area of what they can and can't do, and, if their lack of action over the last three years is any indication, diving into that grey area to appease a small yet annoyingly vocal part of the fanbase isn't high on their priority list.
What you think is of absolutely no concern. If the CBS veto also for some reason affects the 3 original Cryptic designs the T2 cruiser uses they can tell us. However, they are only closely associated with the Constitution by Cryptic's game mechanics, something CBS doesn't care about, so until they specifically tell us that CBS does not want any of them at endgame you can think whatever you want. It has no bearing on the fact that Cryptic only ever told us that CBS didn't allow a T5 Constitution, therefore this "grey area" is only a fantasy of yours.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Now that is a pretty damned nice build. I would almost certainly fly it and choose such a ship over other larger ships like the Odyssey. There is a definite unfilled niche in the game for light cruisers, especially those with a decent tactical Boff option. Nicely done.
Well thank you! I totally agree on the light cruiser gap, which is why I made that build as it is! And the layout, like I said, is to feel as universal as possible: something that seems just right for the Con- Excalibur (I almost did it, whoops).
All we need now is a big good letter with why the Excalibur, Exeter and Vesper aren't the Constitution to send to CBS.
But logic and zealots live in totally different universes.
Please tell me how it is logical that CBS wouldn't allow Cryptic to use original designs at endgame that are loosely based on the Constitution (which is true for a lot more Star Trek vessels) just because Cryptic arbitrarily linked their ingame stats to the Constitution. The problem of the Constitution can be boiled down to two things:
1) It's THE iconic Enteprise.
2) It's old (didn't matter for the D'kyr and D7, but hey logic and morons live in totally different universes )
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Please tell me how it is logical that CBS wouldn't allow Cryptic to use original designs at endgame that are loosely based on the Constitution (which is true for a lot more Star Trek vessels) just because Cryptic arbitrarily linked their ingame stats to the Constitution. [/URL]
Please tell me how it's logical that Cryptic would turn down easy money if the reason is simply Geko? You really think one dev has that much power to stop a potential revenue flow?
The reason has to be deeper than one dev with a bug up his rear end.
Please tell me how it's logical that Cryptic would turn down easy money if the reason is simply Geko? You really think one dev has that much power to stop a potential revenue flow?
The reason has to be deeper than one dev with a bug up his rear end.
Well, Geko managed to block the Ambassador for a good while and when it was released the T5 version was only available for a limited time and then limited to fleets with a shipyard. It didn't get a special console either. The Ambassador was one of the most requested ships and would have been a hit in the C-Store. Or the Klingons. How often did they tell us that too few people played Klingons to put real effort into the faction. Eh, yeah. If youfailtomakemoneyfromthis fandom, you should be hit with a painstick! Cryptic is not logical. Never has been, never will be.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Well, Geko managed to block the Ambassador for a good while and when it was released the T5 version was only available for a limited time and then limited to fleets with a shipyard.
Bull. The Ambassador never had a huge following. It had a few requests here and there in the interest of the complete Enterprise line, and a few who just liked it.
You're also comparing apples to oranges. The Ambassador model had to be made from scratch, which is weeks of paid time to make it, for a ship that wasn't likely to make a bunch of money. The Exeter/Excalibur/Vesper are already here. All it would take is coming up with stats and slapping a price tag on it.
If you're honestly trying to make the argument that one dev can hold back a money stream simply because he thinks it goes too far, I invite you to look around at the ship line up. Look at how far Cryptic will go to make a buck.
You're also comparing apples to oranges. The Ambassador model had to be made from scratch, which is weeks of paid time to make it, for a ship that wasn't likely to make a bunch of money. The Exeter/Excalibur/Vesper are already here. All it would take is coming up with stats and slapping a price tag on it.
not quiet, they will have to re-texture all the parts of the ship(s) to work with the fleet hull materials, after all, pretty much every ship has a special hull material/skin for its fleet version. and I doubt that is simple.
Bull. The Ambassador never had a huge following. It had a few requests here and there in the interest of the complete Enterprise line, and a few who just liked it.
Funny how people always say that about ships they don't like.:rolleyes:
You're also comparing apples to oranges. The Ambassador model had to be made from scratch, which is weeks of paid time to make it, for a ship that wasn't likely to make a bunch of money. The Exeter/Excalibur/Vesper are already here. All it would take is coming up with stats and slapping a price tag on it.
If you're honestly trying to make the argument that one dev can hold back a money stream simply because he thinks it goes too far, I invite you to look around at the ship line up. Look at how far Cryptic will go to make a buck.
I still remember the reasons Geko gave. There was nothing about work, it was because
1) There was no tier between T3 (Excelsior) and T4 (Galaxy) where the ship would have belonged.
2) He didn't want to make a T5 version because the Ambassador should be weaker than the Galaxy and isn't as cool as the Excelsior.
And yeah, sorry the devs managed to "hold back a far bigger money stream" with the Klingons, they are still doing it. The Klingons are the last faction to finally get a ship with 5 forward weapons (after the Fed got two) and it's a copy of a "Federation battlecruiser" the irony is actually burning pixels out of my screen. Canon Klingon uniforms? Heck no. The Romulan Republic already has 3 canon costume packs. But we do have dinosaurs with frickin' anti-proton beams on their heads. The game is now financed out of lock boxes. For the rest the devs add what they think is "cool".
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
And yeah, sorry the devs managed to "hold back a far bigger money stream" with the Klingons, they are still doing it. The Klingons are the last faction to finally get a ship with 5 forward weapons (after the Fed got two) and it's a copy of a "Federation battlecruiser" the irony is actually burning pixels out of my screen. Canon Klingon uniforms? Heck no. The Romulan Republic already has 3 canon costume packs. But we do have dinosaurs with frickin' anti-proton beams on their heads. The game is now financed out of lock boxes. For the rest the devs add what they think is "cool".
Thats the thing though; the Excalibur is only a connie skin if Cryptic hooks it up to work that way. They have the power to "unhook" it, meaning they can make a T5 Excalibur without having the connie skin as an option. There is no law of nature that says that says the Excalibur and Connie have to always be hooked together, so just because CBS will not allow a T5 Connie does not mean Cryptic cannot make a T5 Excalibur.
Bottom Line: They want to make what SELLS with regard to C-Store ships.
Many players (me included) want a T5 Starship/Constitution Class ship (IE the 1701) because the original Star Trek series is our favorite and we want to be able to effectively fly a T5 version of the 'Hero Ship' for our favorite series. yes, Cryptic wanted to do it (because it would make them a good chunk of change) - but CBS said 'no', and the actual reasons for this 'no' have never been communicated publicly.
But, if they did take an STO Excalibur class and make it a T5 - I WOULDN'T BOTHER with buying it (and I doubt most who really want an actual T5 'Connie' would either) -- Why? STO ain't horse-shoes (IE I don't want to fly something that look 'close' to a T5 Connie, I want a T5 Connie. If I want an in Universe ship that has a CLEAR lineage in design to the original Constitution design, I'll fly a T5 Fleet Ambassador Class ship <--- Which is what one of my characters is doing.) -- A T5 Excalibur Class won't get any Zen from me. An actual T5 Connie = SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!:eek::D
TLDR: As the Excalibur Class is an STO specific design, and 'close' to a Starship/Constitution Class, it's still NOT the original Constitution Class, so it won't have much sell through for those players who honestly want a T5 version of the original 1701 design -- hence not worth the ROI in terms of development cost/time.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
then I suggest that cryptic get very busy and come out with a Star Trek Online 2 that take place after Star Trek 6 i which there are Const. still and Mrianda's in service and get it right this time.
Star Trek doesn't have tiers I would imagine in the 24th and even 25th Century thier are still some old Admirals that admire the old Girl of the Const' Class.
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I know it's not canon, but neither is the "Excalibur" in STO.
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Geko was recently asked if separating the alternate skins from the refit would allow tier 5 upgrades. He said no.
According to many of the oppositions perspective it's just as pointless as trying to get a tier 5 Connie. I wouldn't mind too much if it happened because the Connie and its alternate skins are 100% compatible technologically and this would just give my arguments more fuel.
In many ways, the Connie is holding the Exeter family back, so if you want it in the game you should support the tier 5 connie because it's the root of the issue. Other ships like the Miranda and NX would become eligible for tier 5 too. It would be a huge win for fans.
not quiet, they will have to re-texture all the parts of the ship(s) to work with the fleet hull materials, after all, pretty much every ship has a special hull material/skin for its fleet version. and I doubt that is simple.
Yeah, I mean, check out all the work they put into that sexy Fleet Varanus skin.
They would have to be "old Admirals" indeed. However just as there are probably some "old Admirals" in today's navy who still admire the Coontz class destroyers, they don't dictate naval policy based on their own personal predjudices. I'm sure there are "old Generals" who still admire the M60 tank. In any type of government service, once something is "phased out", it's gone. All new production stops, remaining inventory is taken out of service, all procurement of replacement parts stop. All maintenance facilities are upgraded to maintain the new system. All training switches to the new system. Older ships are mothballed, and sold as scrap, or made into museums which, with the preponderance of holographic tech in the 24th century, I don't see happening to often.
Here's the thing...IT"S A GAME, not a piece of real life military hardware. The fact is more people would rather "be" Kirk trolling for Orion Women in a T5 Connie than Picard postulating, giving number one the number 2 in his POS version of the Enterprise.
They would have to be "old Admirals" indeed. However just as there are probably some "old Admirals" in today's navy who still admire the Coontz class destroyers, they don't dictate naval policy based on their own personal predjudices. I'm sure there are "old Generals" who still admire the M60 tank. In any type of government service, once something is "phased out", it's gone. All new production stops, remaining inventory is taken out of service, all procurement of replacement parts stop. All maintenance facilities are upgraded to maintain the new system. All training switches to the new system. Older ships are mothballed, and sold as scrap, or made into museums which, with the preponderance of holographic tech in the 24th century, I don't see happening to often.
They can in Starfleet especially if they want it thier personal ship.
I would go with having it as T3 or T4 alternate ship.It is game like others out there you can fly this at any rank if can afford to buy it not with zen but say EC.
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Lets go ahead and get something out of the way: we all know CBS said "no T5 connie". Whether you agree with that decision or not, Cryptic still has to do what CBS says. So that is really all there is to that subject.
Did they ever say that? Evidence has been requested of this before and the conclusion is that it is an urban legend. So you're not getting anything out of the way except your credibility.
Did they ever say that? Evidence has been requested of this before and the conclusion is that it is an urban legend. So you're not getting anything out of the way except your credibility.
Q: dorko1 I know that the refit is still a touchy subject, but could you guys shed any light on what might happen? I understand that there should be obvious misgivings about the idea of the Constitution class outmatching a vessel 200 yrs new and twice its size, but a replica that?s really more of an Excalibur class vessel might be able to add something to the mix.
A: You are correct that it is a touchy subject amongst the community and based on the discussions we?ve had with CBS about ships, I don?t think we?re going to put a high-end Constitution Class refit into the game. You can still have a lower tier TOS Connie use the Squad Leader feature to bring their stats up to a higher level, but the odds of an end game Connie refit is a long shot.
Q: (thmichael) Are you going to implement the Ambassador Class at some point? And would it be possible to implement the Old Constitution Class for higher ranks?
Dstahl: Yes. The Ambassador class is coming in 2013. CBS is still pretty adamant about the Old Connie not being an end game ship, but you never know what can happen as time rolls by.
Those are two I could think of right away, there's also several interviews with various devs saying as much over the years. One recently on Priority One with Geko saying no to even an Exeter as a compromise. You can find those though.
Those are two I could think of right away, there's also several interviews with various devs saying as much over the years. One recently on Priority One with Geko saying no to even an Exeter as a compromise. You can find those though.
Makes me wonder what is actually being discussed, since the Exeter isn't a real "Star Trek" ship but is supposedly being refused. Since we don't know what CBS actually said there's a good chance of incompetence on the "negotiations" or "discussions" side.
Makes me wonder what is actually being discussed, since the Exeter isn't a real "Star Trek" ship but is supposedly being refused. Since we don't know what CBS actually said there's a good chance of incompetence on the "negotiations" or "discussions" side.
Given that they were able to negotiate all the red tape to get the Vesta licensed from a third party artist, I sincerely doubt this. For what ever reason, CBS is just being obstinate about it. From their point of view, they may see little or no difference between the Connie and sister classes.
On pure speculation, I've always suspected the problem probably stems from JJ and the new movies. It wouldn't be the first time he's been a pita about merchandising from the original stuff.
Yes, IT IS A GAME. A game with an established canon that has rules. Rules are what make games fun. They provide a framework, and bring order to an otherwise, chaotic mess. Imagine trying to play poker if everyone at the table decided to use their own, individual, values for the cards in their hand. Imagine a chess game with each player moving the same pieces differently. The word GAME is not a synonym for ANARCHY. In order for the game to keep it's integrity, and be fun for those playing it, rules are a necessary evil. If you find the game you're playing unsuitable to your taste, you quit and find one that's more your bag. You don't tell people to change the rules to suit your fancy. It's un-American. Rules are what separate the refined, and educated, from the animals, and savages.
Now imagine if you find out your poker mates are cheating. The way they are cheating doesn't improve their chances of winning, but it's still against the rules. You ask if you can cheat in a similar fashion that will not improve your chances of winning either, but you are denied. This is how Star Trek Online works.
Comments
What? They are both ships that follow the design parameters of the Constitution while not being one. They have engineering hulls with two warp nacelles and a neck that connects to a saucer section. If CBS has a problem with ships that look remotely like a Constitution the Excelsior would have to go too.
What you think is of absolutely no concern. If the CBS veto also for some reason affects the 3 original Cryptic designs the T2 cruiser uses they can tell us. However, they are only closely associated with the Constitution by Cryptic's game mechanics, something CBS doesn't care about, so until they specifically tell us that CBS does not want any of them at endgame you can think whatever you want. It has no bearing on the fact that Cryptic only ever told us that CBS didn't allow a T5 Constitution, therefore this "grey area" is only a fantasy of yours.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
True.
But logic and zealots live in totally different universes.
Well thank you! I totally agree on the light cruiser gap, which is why I made that build as it is! And the layout, like I said, is to feel as universal as possible: something that seems just right for the Con- Excalibur (I almost did it, whoops).
All we need now is a big good letter with why the Excalibur, Exeter and Vesper aren't the Constitution to send to CBS.
Join the Deltas today!
Please tell me how it is logical that CBS wouldn't allow Cryptic to use original designs at endgame that are loosely based on the Constitution (which is true for a lot more Star Trek vessels) just because Cryptic arbitrarily linked their ingame stats to the Constitution. The problem of the Constitution can be boiled down to two things:
1) It's THE iconic Enteprise.
2) It's old (didn't matter for the D'kyr and D7, but hey logic and morons live in totally different universes )
Neither is true for the Excalibur/Exeter/Vesper. And Cryptic never claimed that CBS didn't allow them. So please explain to me from which strange universe you come from that it would be logical. I bet in that universe the crew of the Enterprise is still imprisoned by Mudd's androids.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Please tell me how it's logical that Cryptic would turn down easy money if the reason is simply Geko? You really think one dev has that much power to stop a potential revenue flow?
The reason has to be deeper than one dev with a bug up his rear end.
Well, Geko managed to block the Ambassador for a good while and when it was released the T5 version was only available for a limited time and then limited to fleets with a shipyard. It didn't get a special console either. The Ambassador was one of the most requested ships and would have been a hit in the C-Store. Or the Klingons. How often did they tell us that too few people played Klingons to put real effort into the faction. Eh, yeah. If you fail to make money from this fandom, you should be hit with a painstick! Cryptic is not logical. Never has been, never will be.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Bull. The Ambassador never had a huge following. It had a few requests here and there in the interest of the complete Enterprise line, and a few who just liked it.
You're also comparing apples to oranges. The Ambassador model had to be made from scratch, which is weeks of paid time to make it, for a ship that wasn't likely to make a bunch of money. The Exeter/Excalibur/Vesper are already here. All it would take is coming up with stats and slapping a price tag on it.
If you're honestly trying to make the argument that one dev can hold back a money stream simply because he thinks it goes too far, I invite you to look around at the ship line up. Look at how far Cryptic will go to make a buck.
not quiet, they will have to re-texture all the parts of the ship(s) to work with the fleet hull materials, after all, pretty much every ship has a special hull material/skin for its fleet version. and I doubt that is simple.
Funny how people always say that about ships they don't like.:rolleyes:
I still remember the reasons Geko gave. There was nothing about work, it was because
1) There was no tier between T3 (Excelsior) and T4 (Galaxy) where the ship would have belonged.
2) He didn't want to make a T5 version because the Ambassador should be weaker than the Galaxy and isn't as cool as the Excelsior.
And yeah, sorry the devs managed to "hold back a far bigger money stream" with the Klingons, they are still doing it. The Klingons are the last faction to finally get a ship with 5 forward weapons (after the Fed got two) and it's a copy of a "Federation battlecruiser" the irony is actually burning pixels out of my screen. Canon Klingon uniforms? Heck no. The Romulan Republic already has 3 canon costume packs. But we do have dinosaurs with frickin' anti-proton beams on their heads. The game is now financed out of lock boxes. For the rest the devs add what they think is "cool".
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Funny how one of my main characters uses an Amby. :rolleyes:
Funny how I was one of the few asking for the Ambassador at the time. :rolleyes:
Funny how every new character I level always uses the T1 and T2 Constitutions. :rolleyes:
Edit: Ok, so I lied on that third one. Occasionally I might use the NX. Even more rarely I might use the Oberth, and name it USS Redshirt.
Metrics are metrics, like it or not.
Bottom Line: They want to make what SELLS with regard to C-Store ships.
Many players (me included) want a T5 Starship/Constitution Class ship (IE the 1701) because the original Star Trek series is our favorite and we want to be able to effectively fly a T5 version of the 'Hero Ship' for our favorite series. yes, Cryptic wanted to do it (because it would make them a good chunk of change) - but CBS said 'no', and the actual reasons for this 'no' have never been communicated publicly.
But, if they did take an STO Excalibur class and make it a T5 - I WOULDN'T BOTHER with buying it (and I doubt most who really want an actual T5 'Connie' would either) -- Why? STO ain't horse-shoes (IE I don't want to fly something that look 'close' to a T5 Connie, I want a T5 Connie. If I want an in Universe ship that has a CLEAR lineage in design to the original Constitution design, I'll fly a T5 Fleet Ambassador Class ship <--- Which is what one of my characters is doing.) -- A T5 Excalibur Class won't get any Zen from me. An actual T5 Connie = SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!:eek::D
TLDR: As the Excalibur Class is an STO specific design, and 'close' to a Starship/Constitution Class, it's still NOT the original Constitution Class, so it won't have much sell through for those players who honestly want a T5 version of the original 1701 design -- hence not worth the ROI in terms of development cost/time.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Star Trek doesn't have tiers I would imagine in the 24th and even 25th Century thier are still some old Admirals that admire the old Girl of the Const' Class.
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I know it's not canon, but neither is the "Excalibur" in STO.
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I want it sooooo much! I would actually spend money on STO for it... that's saying something!
According to many of the oppositions perspective it's just as pointless as trying to get a tier 5 Connie. I wouldn't mind too much if it happened because the Connie and its alternate skins are 100% compatible technologically and this would just give my arguments more fuel.
In many ways, the Connie is holding the Exeter family back, so if you want it in the game you should support the tier 5 connie because it's the root of the issue. Other ships like the Miranda and NX would become eligible for tier 5 too. It would be a huge win for fans.
/.02$
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Simply push for a T4, that would satisfy me.
Fact I would prob be satisfied with T2 Exeter with more weapon/officer slots and keeping everything else as weak as a T2.
It could be a special T2 only available to admirals or whatever.
Can't have a T5 doesn't mean you can't have a T4.
I think even the Mirror Terrans got mirror cruisers that are higher then T2's because it scales off your own level when you encounter them.
And that of course can be another loop-hole. Its not a federation cruiser......its a mirror T5 terran cruiser.
Here's the thing...IT"S A GAME, not a piece of real life military hardware. The fact is more people would rather "be" Kirk trolling for Orion Women in a T5 Connie than Picard postulating, giving number one the number 2 in his POS version of the Enterprise.
I would go with having it as T3 or T4 alternate ship.It is game like others out there you can fly this at any rank if can afford to buy it not with zen but say EC.
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Star Trek Gamers
Did they ever say that? Evidence has been requested of this before and the conclusion is that it is an urban legend. So you're not getting anything out of the way except your credibility.
Here.
And here.
Those are two I could think of right away, there's also several interviews with various devs saying as much over the years. One recently on Priority One with Geko saying no to even an Exeter as a compromise. You can find those though.
Makes me wonder what is actually being discussed, since the Exeter isn't a real "Star Trek" ship but is supposedly being refused. Since we don't know what CBS actually said there's a good chance of incompetence on the "negotiations" or "discussions" side.
Given that they were able to negotiate all the red tape to get the Vesta licensed from a third party artist, I sincerely doubt this. For what ever reason, CBS is just being obstinate about it. From their point of view, they may see little or no difference between the Connie and sister classes.
On pure speculation, I've always suspected the problem probably stems from JJ and the new movies. It wouldn't be the first time he's been a pita about merchandising from the original stuff.
Now imagine if you find out your poker mates are cheating. The way they are cheating doesn't improve their chances of winning, but it's still against the rules. You ask if you can cheat in a similar fashion that will not improve your chances of winning either, but you are denied. This is how Star Trek Online works.
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