Regardless of who gets what, I feel that stuff like Target SubSys, Cruiser Commands, Singularity Abilties, and other things can only make the game more interesting to play and there should be more unique to ship abilties and more unique to faction stuff in general. Stuff other than general ship class/boff seating and turn rate should enter into my decision to fly one ship or another, such is arguably the case for/against flying an Obelisk, for example.
I think each faction should maintain something that is unique. If that uniqueness is diluted (like is the case with the battle cloak), then a new thing needs to be added to make each faction unique again, otherwise, what's the point in choosing an underpopulated faction if it's just like the one 'everyone' plays?
If you build it they will come. Or, as seems to be the case with STO (Plasmonic Leech, Isocharge, etc) they will QQ until you make the mountain come to Mohammed. The former is the way to make the KDF, or any 'underplayed' faction, more appealing and thus facilitate PvE queue time reduction, etc. The latter is how you use the status quo to justify lack of development in an area of the game.
TL/DR? Raider should be unique to KDF. Down the line, more stuff, exclusive to ONE faction - forever - should be added to all factions that makes them more unique and thus more appealing.
Signed: A FedRom
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
The Aquarius is classed as a destroyer, but it has the stats of a Raider. This one Starfleet vessel should receive the flanking bonus to remain competitive with the BoPs it compares too, especially when you factor in its lack of cloaking.
Personally, I think that the Aquarius should be re-classed as a support craft (a large one, yes). The support craft status would give it reason to have full universal Boffs. (What else would a support craft use?) This new name classification makes it not sound war/pirate-like. Instead of the flanking damage it should have something to suite a more multipurpose role than pure offense like raiders are designed to do. As a bit of fun, why not throw a tier 5 connie in with this new class?
/trolling
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
The way I see it, the Aquarius and, to a much lesser extend, the (T5/Fleet) Saber are at the lower end of "useful" as far as Fed escorts go.
Both should get something that remedies this. However it should be something different from the flanking mechanic. Possibly an evasion mechanic that lets them use their impulse engines (especially prominent on the Saber) more effectively.
Please remember that being classed as a destroyer is not that unique given the Nausicaans have ships of that type too and I seriously doubt they need buffing of any kind.;)
Are failed PvP Feds complaining about BoP buff. Go find any good cruiser captain flying Avenger or Excelsior and you will be laughing at BoP alpha strikes.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Holodeck, looking at it in another window right now. (Wish I wasn't though, god what an ugly ship, almost as bad as the Avenger)
Aside, curious as to the name though, given J'mpok's animosity to Worf and that the House Of Mogh was dissolved a generation ago. Named for a different Mogh, maybe.
Agree with you 100%. Cryptic just can't help themselves with their hideous designs.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
They got my money the moment it's released. It looks like a brutal warship, I love the design. Klingon ships aren't supposed to look like space cruise liners or pretty birdies.
Sad to say but I may also buy this on my tac toon. But I want a c store version. Fleet only is a rip off.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Personally, I think that the Aquarius should be re-classed as a support craft (a large one, yes). The support craft status would give it reason to have full universal Boffs. (What else would a support craft use?) This new name classification makes it not sound war/pirate-like. Instead of the flanking damage it should have something to suite a more multipurpose role than pure offense like raiders are designed to do. As a bit of fun, why not throw a tier 5 connie in with this new class?
/trolling
I play primarily as KDF and I support Aquarius being re classed as raider. But no cloak. That would just kill the last bit of uniqueness of KDF.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I play primarily as KDF and I support Aquarius being re classed as raider. But no cloak. That would just kill the last bit of uniqueness of KDF.
Many KDF have expressed that the Aquariuos needs flanking without a cloak so I have no idea where the belief that we do not support it is commng from.
As well the Devs have already stated that they are going to review he Aquariuos and give it a buff.
So whats the issue with it. Its on the drawing board for a change.
... I vote we just strip the whiners on both sides of their ships and make them fly around in shuttles until they learn that mommy (Cryptic) won't always buy 'em the brand new shiney toy the other kids have.
___
Serious response:
I'm primarily a Fed Player, I do however mess around on my Klingon Tac every now an again. I'll be happy to see that Klingon Faction starts getting some more loving, It has been left gathering dust for long enough with the odd bit of content here and there. It's about time Cryptic finally started to give the Klingon's some attention.
I personally hope the Feds don't get any escorts with the Raider Buff, We do have enough. Sure. We may not have any kind of an actual -specific- mechanic. But we have that many ships (Which quite a few come with consoles that are usable on ships they didn't come with.) and even the three packs that have all three consoles that do turn those specific ships when in the right hands.. Something dangerous.
Many KDF have expressed that the Aquariuos needs flanking without a cloak so I have no idea where the belief that we do not support it is commng from.
As well the Devs have already stated that they are going to review he Aquariuos and give it a buff.
So whats the issue with it. Its on the drawing board for a change.
I was only trolling in regards to the tier 5 connie. As for the "support craft" idea I had for the Aquarius, I was being serious.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
I was only trolling in regards to the tier 5 connie. As for the "support craft" idea I had for the Aquarius, I was being serious.
An Aquariuos with full Universal Boffs and a cloak is a KDF bird of prey. The feds do not need a Bird of Prey, you already have several vessels like the MVA, Defiant and Science vessels that can fulfill the same functions.
I Have no issue with the Aqauriuos being given Misterdee's evasion idea instead of flanking. Feds are not backstabbers imo and it would better suite their ethos.
Um... your cruisers get all 4 Cruiser commands for starters.
you get an entire class of vessels that provide free sensor analysis, four tac powers (the subsystem targeting set), and some very high shield modifiers, the various gadgets that come with the Vesta...
you get new ships every quarter, and got a BC that's superior to all present BC's on the red side two weeks after KDF's ship was shelved for reasons of "the common good", you've got multiple GOOD ships with 5 tac consoles (We got the craptastic Bortas), the Andorian ships, you have access to most of our best tricks off the Exchange thanks to lockboxes while we have to pay ca$h through zen to obtain them, Your costumes, etc. work, all the cross-faction mission content has a heavily slanted pro-fed bias to it, including dialogue choices and even fundamental mission requirements, when a mechanic doesn't work on Klink-side, it doesn't get fixed until the system's ported Fedside (we get to test and find all the bugs for you.)
etc. etc. etc.
Oh, and "Leadership", "Creative" traits-KDF doesn't get those on ANY of their races.
Tellya what?
we'll give up the chronic uniform bugs, clipping errors and invisible clothing options, we'll also give up the role of your alpha-test population for new systems (see: Carriers, Battle Cruisers, Plasmonic Leech, Subspace jump, etc.) If you give up asking for what we've got...or you can take up the role of testing your future Federation gear by rolling a KDF toon and seeing what life is REALLY like on the red side.
We'll even glady give up paying more for the same commodities, lack of support, chronic 'assurances' that turn out to be empty/not happening, and years-long periods to get equivalent to what you wait a couple weeks for.
It took Cryptic three years to do for KDF, what they did for the brand-new Romulan faction in six months (from the date of the poll to release of LoR). It took them a little over six months from the release of LoR to release the revamped Federation tutorial-from a dead start.
We'll GLADLY give you that "Unique Feature" back...
All I see is whine......
Sure the bugs are annoying, but guess what, ALL the factions have some bugs...(more with this latest set of of patches)
On the other stuff, you cry that your "uniqueness" is being taken away, OUTRIGHT STATING that you had PLENTY of stuff that the Feds never had, til recently. And you want "MOAR SHINIES" (yeah, the same thing you accuse Fed-primaries of yelling for), so again, whine whine, blah blah. Same old garbage. It's because of people like you, I'd freely support them shutting down the KDF side only, and making this game totally Fed & Rihan-centric, with KDF's being there only as NPC targets. You want to give up nothing, and whine when you get nothing. Hmmmm, seems fair to me.
Anyway, to those few others out there with a little more common sense, and respect, my hats off to you. (*Bows*)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Are failed PvP Feds complaining about BoP buff. Go find any good cruiser captain flying Avenger or Excelsior and you will be laughing at BoP alpha strikes.
Agreed. What this flanking bonus will allow me, a BoP PvPer, to do is improve my performance to where ships that I can't quite finish off with an alphastrike will instead turn into a floating cloud of debris. It won't allow me to one-shot good tanks unless I time my attack just right, and that doesn't happen all that often. The BoPs aren't quite the one-shot scourge they used to be, despite what certain people might say. The Romulans stole that role with their ridiculous crit bonuses. Also, buffs to one's ability to passive-heal and nerfs to any 'tricks' one might try using to maximize burst damage. It's now much more difficult to annihilate enemies in a single attack, it often takes multiple salvos (assuming they don't react in time) or the coordinated effort of 2-3 BoPs (which then causes Feddies to whine about lightweight ships ganging up on big fat cruisers/carriers/etc).
I play primarily as KDF and I support Aquarius being re classed as raider. But no cloak. That would just kill the last bit of uniqueness of KDF.
My take is that the Aquarius and T'Varo might warrant it but in addition to different ships getting different flanking bonuses (the T'varo and Aquarius could get a lower bonus than Klingon ships), I'd probably also take one thing into account:
Klingon raiders were, at one point seen as science/escort hybrids whereas the Aquarius and T'Varo and Jem'Hadar ship are "more escort-y than escorts".Meaning in my mind that KDF raiders should be viable with less cannon oriented builds.
So while I might be okay with some other ships getting flanking, I think KDF raiders should also:
- Get a beam bonus, to promote variety of builds.
- Get a flanking arc bonus.
Or, perhaps combining the two in a way:
Give BoPs an arc bonus, similar to the wide angle quantum with the Regent. Projectile weapons gain 90 degrees of arc and energy weapons gain 45.
In fact, I could see making the definition of a raider a ship that gets both flanking and arc bonus and then giving Fed and Rom ships that are similar one OR the other but only KDF ships get both. That way, you could treat raider-LIKE ships in much the same way that Battlecruisers/Dreadnaughts lose cruiser commands compared to straight cruisers.
Also, while we're discussing ship classes, I'll just note again that the Galor really ought to be considered a Destroyer and should equip dual cannons, both based on canon and based on its relative lack of oomph compared to other fleet and lockbox ships. The best thing a Galor owner can do presently is strip the weapons off and put them on another ship, which is really counterintuitive for a lockbox prize.
An Aquariuos with full Universal Boffs and a cloak is a KDF bird of prey. The feds do not need a Bird of Prey, you already have several vessels like the MVA, Defiant and Science vessels that can fulfill the same functions.
I Have no issue with the Aqauriuos being given Misterdee's evasion idea instead of flanking. Feds are not backstabbers imo and it would better suite their ethos.
In my post I never mention giving the Aquarius a cloak, that would be silly. And I also mention that as a "support craft" it gets some form of more versatile, multi-role ability/set of abilities.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
vo'que is only free till you want the fleet version that costs 4 fleet modules and that is uncalled for. if your aquaris only costs fleet credits so should my fleet vo'que
Basic Aquarius is only available for a hefty sum of fleet credits, the Fleet one takes modules too. See the HoH'SuS for the correct (and superior) counterpart.
In my post I never mention giving the Aquarius a cloak, that would be silly. And I also mention that as a "support craft" it gets some form of more versatile, multi-role ability/set of abilities.
Cloak would be out of place on it, instead an innate and enhanced MES could yield a similar level of evasive utility.
Also you got to be careful with BiteMePWE, he tends to not really read posts.
. . . or maybe a lump of coal to sit on and fume over for a couple of weeks. Dont worry, after everyone is done huffing and puffing Im sure it will become a friggin diamond!
I'm happy the KDF is getting some love. Feds have our 'faction exclusive' carriers, a 5 fore weapon ship, a cloak (which you really shouldnt have at all) and now you have access to another 'faction exclusive' raider class that has a higher flank bonus than the KDF side, 5 tact consoles AND an extra Boff station over the BoPs. And its still not enough?! *sigh*
This TRIBBLE makes me want to randomly fire on every Federation Toon I see.
I reread the preceding postings just to be sure. I don't see anyone asking that the Feds get anything extra. So why are you getting so bent out of shape over something that hasn't even happened?
I would simply ask what exclusive mechanic do the Feds have? Not numbers of players or numbers of ships (most of which are unneeded), but mechanic? The Atrox? KDF gets for free and has frigate pets, making the Vo'quv fully superior to the Atrox. The Avenger (which was a surprise to everyone)? We've all seen the leaks about the Mogh now, right, with everything the Avenger can do plus built-in cloaking? Cruisers? Vorcha beats Assault Cruiser and Gal-X, Mirror Vorcha beats Star Cruiser, Negh'var beats Gal-R, Kamarag beats Ambassador....
There seems to be this blind hatred of other factions because....why? So much stuff where the KDF has technical superiority and things that don't even HAVE a counterpart elsewhere, and yet still this victim complex. There's lots of emotion and grudges over the KDF not having as many story missions, but these days what logical reason is there for such hostility?
My Tor'kaht outclasses my Gal-X in every way. My Sci Ning'taoi pulls stuff my Vesta could only dream of. My Vo'quv is so perfectly built I didn't even other spending money on an Atrox. What good reason is there to be so vindictively hostile and petty?
YES! Ten times over! You have hit the nail on it's proverbial head.
The Raider class should remain unique to the Klingons.
Demanding homogeneity across factions and professions is the equivalent of demanding that mages should be allowed to wield double axes and wear plate armour. Or demanding that dark elves should be able to use holy spells. Etc. etc.
Um, WTF are you talking about? Plate armor? Axes? Dark elves? I'm sure I haven't seen any of that in STO...
Basic Aquarius is only available for a hefty sum of fleet credits, the Fleet one takes modules too. See the HoH'SuS for the correct (and superior) counterpart.
Garumba Siege Destroyer's Disruptor Lance. Superior weapon on a superior space frame.
Go read #64. notice line asking for full universal Boffs on the Aquariuos. I read just fine.
A post in which there is no mention of cloaking, not even in passing; yet you replied arguing about universals andcloak making it a BoP. So you may read fine, just either you then internally incorrectly process information, or you just ignore the post's contents and strawman intentionally. :P
A post in which there is no mention of cloaking, not even in passing; yet you replied arguing about universals andcloak making it a BoP. So you may read fine, just either you then internally incorrectly process information, or you just ignore the post's contents and strawman intentionally. :P
Read again. I had to edit the mention of post #4 that had the cloak request for escorts and the like. Combine that with Universal slots and you have the BoP.
Comments
Regardless of who gets what, I feel that stuff like Target SubSys, Cruiser Commands, Singularity Abilties, and other things can only make the game more interesting to play and there should be more unique to ship abilties and more unique to faction stuff in general. Stuff other than general ship class/boff seating and turn rate should enter into my decision to fly one ship or another, such is arguably the case for/against flying an Obelisk, for example.
I think each faction should maintain something that is unique. If that uniqueness is diluted (like is the case with the battle cloak), then a new thing needs to be added to make each faction unique again, otherwise, what's the point in choosing an underpopulated faction if it's just like the one 'everyone' plays?
If you build it they will come. Or, as seems to be the case with STO (Plasmonic Leech, Isocharge, etc) they will QQ until you make the mountain come to Mohammed. The former is the way to make the KDF, or any 'underplayed' faction, more appealing and thus facilitate PvE queue time reduction, etc. The latter is how you use the status quo to justify lack of development in an area of the game.
TL/DR? Raider should be unique to KDF. Down the line, more stuff, exclusive to ONE faction - forever - should be added to all factions that makes them more unique and thus more appealing.
Signed: A FedRom
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Personally, I think that the Aquarius should be re-classed as a support craft (a large one, yes). The support craft status would give it reason to have full universal Boffs. (What else would a support craft use?) This new name classification makes it not sound war/pirate-like. Instead of the flanking damage it should have something to suite a more multipurpose role than pure offense like raiders are designed to do. As a bit of fun, why not throw a tier 5 connie in with this new class?
/trolling
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
The way I see it, the Aquarius and, to a much lesser extend, the (T5/Fleet) Saber are at the lower end of "useful" as far as Fed escorts go.
Both should get something that remedies this. However it should be something different from the flanking mechanic. Possibly an evasion mechanic that lets them use their impulse engines (especially prominent on the Saber) more effectively.
Please remember that being classed as a destroyer is not that unique given the Nausicaans have ships of that type too and I seriously doubt they need buffing of any kind.;)
- Judge Aaron Satie
Agree with you 100%. Cryptic just can't help themselves with their hideous designs.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Sad to say but I may also buy this on my tac toon. But I want a c store version. Fleet only is a rip off.
- Judge Aaron Satie
I play primarily as KDF and I support Aquarius being re classed as raider. But no cloak. That would just kill the last bit of uniqueness of KDF.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Many KDF have expressed that the Aquariuos needs flanking without a cloak so I have no idea where the belief that we do not support it is commng from.
As well the Devs have already stated that they are going to review he Aquariuos and give it a buff.
So whats the issue with it. Its on the drawing board for a change.
R.I.P
___
Serious response:
I'm primarily a Fed Player, I do however mess around on my Klingon Tac every now an again. I'll be happy to see that Klingon Faction starts getting some more loving, It has been left gathering dust for long enough with the odd bit of content here and there. It's about time Cryptic finally started to give the Klingon's some attention.
I personally hope the Feds don't get any escorts with the Raider Buff, We do have enough. Sure. We may not have any kind of an actual -specific- mechanic. But we have that many ships (Which quite a few come with consoles that are usable on ships they didn't come with.) and even the three packs that have all three consoles that do turn those specific ships when in the right hands.. Something dangerous.
I was only trolling in regards to the tier 5 connie. As for the "support craft" idea I had for the Aquarius, I was being serious.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
An Aquariuos with full Universal Boffs and a cloak is a KDF bird of prey. The feds do not need a Bird of Prey, you already have several vessels like the MVA, Defiant and Science vessels that can fulfill the same functions.
I Have no issue with the Aqauriuos being given Misterdee's evasion idea instead of flanking. Feds are not backstabbers imo and it would better suite their ethos.
R.I.P
All I see is whine......
Sure the bugs are annoying, but guess what, ALL the factions have some bugs...(more with this latest set of of patches)
On the other stuff, you cry that your "uniqueness" is being taken away, OUTRIGHT STATING that you had PLENTY of stuff that the Feds never had, til recently. And you want "MOAR SHINIES" (yeah, the same thing you accuse Fed-primaries of yelling for), so again, whine whine, blah blah. Same old garbage. It's because of people like you, I'd freely support them shutting down the KDF side only, and making this game totally Fed & Rihan-centric, with KDF's being there only as NPC targets. You want to give up nothing, and whine when you get nothing. Hmmmm, seems fair to me.
Anyway, to those few others out there with a little more common sense, and respect, my hats off to you. (*Bows*)
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Agreed. What this flanking bonus will allow me, a BoP PvPer, to do is improve my performance to where ships that I can't quite finish off with an alphastrike will instead turn into a floating cloud of debris. It won't allow me to one-shot good tanks unless I time my attack just right, and that doesn't happen all that often. The BoPs aren't quite the one-shot scourge they used to be, despite what certain people might say. The Romulans stole that role with their ridiculous crit bonuses. Also, buffs to one's ability to passive-heal and nerfs to any 'tricks' one might try using to maximize burst damage. It's now much more difficult to annihilate enemies in a single attack, it often takes multiple salvos (assuming they don't react in time) or the coordinated effort of 2-3 BoPs (which then causes Feddies to whine about lightweight ships ganging up on big fat cruisers/carriers/etc).
My take is that the Aquarius and T'Varo might warrant it but in addition to different ships getting different flanking bonuses (the T'varo and Aquarius could get a lower bonus than Klingon ships), I'd probably also take one thing into account:
Klingon raiders were, at one point seen as science/escort hybrids whereas the Aquarius and T'Varo and Jem'Hadar ship are "more escort-y than escorts".Meaning in my mind that KDF raiders should be viable with less cannon oriented builds.
So while I might be okay with some other ships getting flanking, I think KDF raiders should also:
- Get a beam bonus, to promote variety of builds.
- Get a flanking arc bonus.
Or, perhaps combining the two in a way:
Give BoPs an arc bonus, similar to the wide angle quantum with the Regent. Projectile weapons gain 90 degrees of arc and energy weapons gain 45.
In fact, I could see making the definition of a raider a ship that gets both flanking and arc bonus and then giving Fed and Rom ships that are similar one OR the other but only KDF ships get both. That way, you could treat raider-LIKE ships in much the same way that Battlecruisers/Dreadnaughts lose cruiser commands compared to straight cruisers.
Also, while we're discussing ship classes, I'll just note again that the Galor really ought to be considered a Destroyer and should equip dual cannons, both based on canon and based on its relative lack of oomph compared to other fleet and lockbox ships. The best thing a Galor owner can do presently is strip the weapons off and put them on another ship, which is really counterintuitive for a lockbox prize.
I dont normally put mine in a kettle??? Does one just stand around it and breathe?
R.I.P
In my post I never mention giving the Aquarius a cloak, that would be silly. And I also mention that as a "support craft" it gets some form of more versatile, multi-role ability/set of abilities.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Basic Aquarius is only available for a hefty sum of fleet credits, the Fleet one takes modules too. See the HoH'SuS for the correct (and superior) counterpart.
Garumba Siege Destroyer's Disruptor Lance. Superior weapon on a superior space frame. Haakona Only part here with any truth. However, compare to BoP frigate tier pets, which Feds lack.
Amended:
Cloak would be out of place on it, instead an innate and enhanced MES could yield a similar level of evasive utility.
Also you got to be careful with BiteMePWE, he tends to not really read posts.
I reread the preceding postings just to be sure. I don't see anyone asking that the Feds get anything extra. So why are you getting so bent out of shape over something that hasn't even happened?
[/SIGPIC]
YES! Ten times over!
[/SIGPIC]
Um, WTF are you talking about? Plate armor? Axes? Dark elves? I'm sure I haven't seen any of that in STO...
[/SIGPIC]
R.I.P
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
A post in which there is no mention of cloaking, not even in passing; yet you replied arguing about universals and cloak making it a BoP. So you may read fine, just either you then internally incorrectly process information, or you just ignore the post's contents and strawman intentionally. :P
Read again. I had to edit the mention of post #4 that had the cloak request for escorts and the like. Combine that with Universal slots and you have the BoP.
R.I.P