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Romulan Politics

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  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    D'Tan and his hippie colony, must be the opposite of anything Romulan. No matter who is right, everything is destined to go wrong. It would slightly help to find out he is a raving lunatic in disguise of a very beardless "Romulan Santa" of course. Handing out state secrets to the visitors at the mall. I mean New Romulus.

    He is a traitor at any rate. Selling out his own kind. When everything is gone, so will the greedy crave for more. And when all the treasures are won, there will be war. This is the most likely fate, as seen even by the blind.

    ---

    Yeah, I imagine that any Federation official/captain who started selling top-of-the-line military hardware and technological secrets to the Klingons/true way/Tal shiar/etc in exchange for political and military support in propping up their separatist state, they would rightly be accused of treason. Heck, look what the Federation did to the Maquis for *much* less. To say nothing of what the Klingons would do to someone who so betrayed them.

    In any sort of sensible Romulan faction, D'Tan would be the big bad enemy of the first episode arc or two. The only reason that the Romulan storyline possesses the slightest hint of plausibility is because Cryptic wrote the Tal Shiar to be some of the most brain-meltingly stupid evil antagonists ever written. I would gladly savor the chance to throw D'Tan to the epohhs. sadly I doubt it will ever happen.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Originally Posted by sernonserculion View Post
    D'Tan and his hippie colony, must be the opposite of anything Romulan. No matter who is right, everything is destined to go wrong. It would slightly help to find out he is a raving lunatic in disguise of a very beardless "Romulan Santa" of course. Handing out state secrets to the visitors at the mall. I mean New Romulus.

    He is a traitor at any rate. Selling out his own kind. When everything is gone, so will the greedy crave for more. And when all the treasures are won, there will be war. This is the most likely fate, as seen even by the blind.

    ---

    Yeah, I imagine that any Federation official/captain who started selling top-of-the-line military hardware and technological secrets to the Klingons/true way/Tal shiar/etc in exchange for political and military support in propping up their separatist state, they would rightly be accused of treason. Heck, look what the Federation did to the Maquis for *much* less. To say nothing of what the Klingons would do to someone who so betrayed them.

    In any sort of sensible Romulan faction, D'Tan would be the big bad enemy of the first episode arc or two. The only reason that the Romulan storyline possesses the slightest hint of plausibility is because Cryptic wrote the Tal Shiar to be some of the most brain-meltingly stupid evil antagonists ever written. I would gladly savor the chance to throw D'Tan to the epohhs. sadly I doubt it will ever happen.

    Ahh, but you both miss an important distinction. D'tan hasn't given either side anything but the right to walk around on Mol'rihan and basically sweep the floors.
    Where are the enhanced battlecloaks for the federation and Klingons? Did they get to take the Iconian gateway? Copy it? Nope, they helped pay to restore it for the republic. Both sides are paying ransoms to keep the republic from joining one side or the other exclusively.
    Right now the best thing the Iconians could do to collapse the romulan republic is to settle the war between the Klingons and the Federation. After all, it is the mutual distrust that is opening their cold war wallets here.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    Ahh, but you both miss an important distinction. D'tan hasn't given either side anything but the right to walk around on Mol'rihan and basically sweep the floors.
    Where are the enhanced battlecloaks for the federation and Klingons? Did they get to take the Iconian gateway? Copy it? Nope, they helped pay to restore it for the republic. Both sides are paying ransoms to keep the republic from joining one side or the other exclusively.
    Right now the best thing the Iconians could do to collapse the romulan republic is to settle the war between the Klingons and the Federation. After all, it is the mutual distrust that is opening their cold war wallets here.


    Last time I checked, they were handing out Romulan ship parts and weaponry for "sweeping the floors", in this manner. Otherwise I doubt the population of little helpers had been so vigorously active. But all this selfless "charity" is of course deeply touching, in the same spirit it was offered. As a guest worker on some Starfleet Starbase, all this preservation of Romulan values can be a bit overwhelming at times. Must be why the clarity of this great and consistent effort to aid us in our struggle, without any tangible returns, apart from grabbing anything of tech value, by these caring and generous parties, somehow escaped me... :)

    ---
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Last time I checked, they were handing out Romulan ship parts and weaponry for "sweeping the floors", in this manner. Otherwise I doubt the population of little helpers had been so vigorously active. But all this selfless "charity" is of course deeply touching, in the same spirit it was offered. As a guest worker on some Starfleet Starbase, all this preservation of Romulan values can be a bit overwhelming at times. Must be why the clarity of this great and consistent effort to aid us in our struggle, without any tangible returns, apart from grabbing anything of tech value, by these caring and generous parties, somehow escaped me... :)

    ---

    Tangible value to Romulans.
    Full access to federation and Klingon ships and computers. (T5 blocked)
    Full access to federation and Klingon research facilities.
    The capitol of New Romulus was built how fast?
    Where did the materials and many of the workers for the construction come from?

    For this they get a torpedo system used on Tal Sh'iar warbirds that are rather old and probably been salvaged numerous times by the KDF and star fleet.

    And while I can understand a concern for Romulan values I have to ask. Which ones are ignored?

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Well, I think some of what the KDF and Starfleet get in exchange for all this help is certain Republic Romulan Captains to do some of their missions for them. (AKA you and the shared-faction content missions.)

    As well as aid in PvE. In Starfleet's case it seems to be a clever way to get cloaked ships working for you doing Starfleet business without actually having cloaked ships.

    Want a covert mission done that's greatly aided by cloaking tech? Send in your Romulan allies.
  • janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    Tangible value to Romulans.
    Full access to federation and Klingon ships and computers. (T5 blocked)
    Full access to federation and Klingon research facilities.
    The capitol of New Romulus was built how fast?
    Where did the materials and many of the workers for the construction come from?
    lol no. It is not a part of the plot. Since romulans are a sub fraction we are using already created assets so Cryptic has less things to bother about.
    And while I can understand a concern for Romulan values I have to ask. Which ones are ignored?
    There were so much said about D'tans "ideas". He hurts our feelings every day.
    __________________
    [Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.

    In-game handle @Janetza
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    Tangible value to Romulans.
    Full access to federation and Klingon ships and computers. (T5 blocked)
    Full access to federation and Klingon research facilities.
    The capitol of New Romulus was built how fast?
    Where did the materials and many of the workers for the construction come from?

    For this they get a torpedo system used on Tal Sh'iar warbirds that are rather old and probably been salvaged numerous times by the KDF and star fleet.

    And while I can understand a concern for Romulan values I have to ask. Which ones are ignored?


    You call three, maybe four, buildings and a number of tents a capitol? A rather impressive view. Can't wait for this "native" and "upgraded" equipment that we obviously have stashed somewhere in deep hiding, since the very tech I'm using on my ship right now, must be outdated per the above description.

    As for the access to the most outdated foreign equipment in existence, fit for the scrapyards, well that is indeed a most humbling gift, and far be it for me to reject such generosity! It is indeed grand of them to provide research facilities you have to help build up from scratch yourself though. Hauling materials endlessly. I'll give them that. All for the small price of just forgetting what we really are in the process. What a great preservation of all things Romulan it is, to work for others and thus ultimately serve them. Dropping our own culture at the door.

    As for all the labor on New Romulus, I think we got that covered. It is again the selfless hordes going at it. motivated by this "old and outdated" equipment, that in no way appears to be desirable...

    ---
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    You call three, maybe four, buildings and a number of tents a capitol? A rather impressive view. Can't wait for this "native" and "upgraded" equipment that we obviously have stashed somewhere in deep hiding, since the very tech I'm using on my ship right now, must be outdated per the above description.

    As for the access to the most outdated foreign equipment in existence, fit for the scrapyards, well that is indeed a most humbling gift, and far be it for me to reject such generosity! It is indeed grand of them to provide research facilities you have to help build up from scratch yourself though. Hauling materials endlessly. I'll give them that. All for the small price of just forgetting what we really are in the process. What a great preservation of all things Romulan it is, to work for others and thus ultimately serve them. Dropping our own culture at the door.

    As for all the labor on New Romulus, I think we got that covered. It is again the selfless hordes going at it. motivated by this "old and outdated" equipment, that in no way appears to be desirable...

    ---

    Check me on this. But is there not a vast neighborhood in a cave below the command center for the remans? Are there not towering spires connected to our command center that neither the federation, nor the Klingons may enter?
    The only tents I have seen seem to be housing the federation and Klingons.
    And when did we build or help build memory alpha or the facility on qo'nos?
    As for ships fit for scrap yards. . . Well I would never say that to an engineer of any stripe but that may need to be gone over again.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    Check me on this. But is there not a vast neighborhood in a cave below the command center for the remans? Are there not towering spires connected to our command center that neither the federation, nor the Klingons may enter?
    The only tents I have seen seem to be housing the federation and Klingons.
    And when did we build or help build memory alpha or the facility on qo'nos?
    As for ships fit for scrap yards. . . Well I would never say that to an engineer of any stripe but that may need to be gone over again.

    Caves and locked rooms. At least they gave us this much. :)

    Would not accept their best ship of the line, at any rate. For that would make us into them, faster than you could say "A big happy fleet". That is the last true separation here. For now...

    ---
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Caves and locked rooms. At least they gave us this much. :)

    Would not accept their best ship of the line, at any rate. For that would make us into them, faster than you could say "A big happy fleet". That is the last true separation here. For now...

    ---

    Ah now. Who found New Romulus? Who claimed it and have chosen to settle it?
    That is our cave and our locked rooms.
    (Meta sense we don't get to visit San Francisco on earth or really more of the capitol of qo'nos beyond the central square, either.)
    To turn away from what is ours would be to lament not having a trillion drones to pull Romulus herself together and revive her from her cold grave.

    And for some this is fine. While you reside in one of the few new craft we can cobble or an elder one we can patch. My patched vessel contains the weapons of our current 'friends' that they have very few secrets left from us.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    Ah now. Who found New Romulus? Who claimed it and have chosen to settle it?
    That is our cave and our locked rooms.
    (Meta sense we don't get to visit San Francisco on earth or really more of the capitol of qo'nos beyond the central square, either.)
    To turn away from what is ours would be to lament not having a trillion drones to pull Romulus herself together and revive her from her cold grave.

    And for some this is fine. While you reside in one of the few new craft we can cobble or an elder one we can patch. My patched vessel contains the weapons of our current 'friends' that they have very few secrets left from us.

    The old school saying was that "if knowledge is power, to be unknown is to be unconquerable". Concerned about sharing our knowledge, on that account. On the flip side, when technology is acquired, it must be transformed to our needs, instead of turning "us" into "them", by making "us" identical in every way. Jolan True feiqa. You have made an impressive and important thread. Will check in again later. :)

    ---
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    So at anytime will you stop being a jerk and start actually responding to our points with real counterpoints? Or are insults the limits of your debate repertoire?

    Insults? You mean like the aging reactionaries clinging to the crumbled ruins of Rihannsu Stelam Shiar continually referring to the loyal citizens of rehvie ch'Mol'Rihan as "space hippies"? You mean like the brainwashed sycophants of the Tal'Shiar projecting their own inability for independent thought onto those who have not been indoctrinated into doublethink? You mean like the Tal'Shiar accusing those whom they victimized of being abusive toward the Tal'Shiar? Your universe is a curious one indeed.

    And now OOC:
    Insults? I have three replies to that allegation:
    (i) I did not intend it that way.
    (ii) I don't believe feiqa took it that way.
    (iii) You must admit that it was a fair question in light of what had been said.

    As far as responding to "your points," and "real counterpoints," and "debate," I will say only: search my post history.
  • sharksinspacesharksinspace Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    protogoth wrote: »
    Insults? You mean like the aging reactionaries clinging to the crumbled ruins of Rihannsu Stelam Shiar continually referring to the loyal citizens of rehvie ch'Mol'Rihan as "space hippies"? You mean like the brainwashed sycophants of the Tal'Shiar projecting their own inability for independent thought onto those who have not been indoctrinated into doublethink? You mean like the Tal'Shiar accusing those whom they victimized of being abusive toward the Tal'Shiar? Your universe is a curious one indeed.

    And now OOC:
    Insults? I have three replies to that allegation:
    (i) I did not intend it that way.
    (ii) I don't believe feiqa took it that way.
    (iii) You must admit that it was a fair question in light of what had been said.

    As far as responding to "your points," and "real counterpoints," and "debate," I will say only: search my post history.

    I took it that way and I still haven't seen the justification for not trying to expand the Republic into the former Star Empire or trying to co opt former Navy guys (who are shown to be much less pro-Tal Shiar) into our new military. Also calling me reactionary is exactly the kind of thing I mean.
  • janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    Ahh, but you both miss an important distinction. D'tan hasn't given either side anything but the right to walk around on Mol'rihan and basically sweep the floors.
    Where are the enhanced battlecloaks for the federation and Klingons? .

    I think you forgot romulan rep were every fed and klingon receives romulan gear and battlecloak as Tier 5 skill.
    __________________
    [Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.

    In-game handle @Janetza
  • astro2244astro2244 Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Actually.... if that bombing had worked, it probably would have triggered an all out war between the Federation and Klingon Empire QUOTE]


    Because the 'all out war' that was already going on between the Klingons and the Federation was just a cover for a hidden friendship. :D
    [SIGPIC]583px-Romulan_Star_Empire_logo%2C_2379.svg.png
    [/SIGPIC]
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    astro2244 wrote: »
    Actually.... if that bombing had worked, it probably would have triggered an all out war between the Federation and Klingon Empire
    Because the 'all out war' that was already going on between the Klingons and the Federation was just a cover for a hidden friendship. :D
    It's mostly a cold war. that bombing might have triggered an actual full scale war.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • astro2244astro2244 Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It's mostly a cold war.




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBC1Qob27sM&feature=player_detailpage#t=38


    It's clearly shown that the Klingon empire and Federation Both declared a full scale war on each other in the path to 2409. now i do admit that cryptic has muddied the waters, with all the nicey nicey stuff with task force omega, the Joint new Romulus venture, and the dyson joint command, But that's more of bad writing then anything else since feds and klinks are still supposed to be at war. However at the end of the day rest assured D'tan will come flying in on a winged epohh and bring peace and hugs to the alpha quadrent and end the fed/kdf war. :D
    [SIGPIC]583px-Romulan_Star_Empire_logo%2C_2379.svg.png
    [/SIGPIC]
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited January 2014
    astro2244 wrote: »
    However at the end of the day rest assured D'tan will come flying in on a winged epohh and bring peace and hugs to the alpha quadrent and end the fed/kdf war. :D

    *readies the anti-air guns*
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Epohhir! Epohhir heis'helho u' daehlehkhir!
    Hwi ssraei Epohh'daehlen, ie?
    Epohhir ouyer, ie?
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    astro2244 wrote: »
    However at the end of the day rest assured D'tan will come flying in on a winged epohh and bring peace and hugs to the alpha quadrent and end the fed/kdf war.

    Looks up from the bench and pulls out a pistol. 'What are you doing in my lab! The epohh are not ready for the public!'

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • maarchsmaarchs Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Since I recently only joined this online game I would sa that gameplay is quite interesting so far - that's from a newbie look. :)
    When You observe, learn from it.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    With wings of flight, let D'Tan take care of our plight. On his winged steed, ready for a caring deed. Embracing everything in sight, hugging every species without a fight. This is the new Romulan might, our leader showing us the light.

    ---

  • quintoneasttnquintoneasttn Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Does anyone feel that the New Romulan Republic will bring in a governing council to help prosper the growing new colony? If D'Tan moves in this direction, it would provide a sense of deniability if some projects take a turn for the worse.. he could come in and get things back on tract. Thereby strengthening his position and place in the Republican Historial Archives for generations to come. I just don't think that he would choose to remain the "go-to" guy for every little detail that comes across his desk. Micro-management.. is definitely NOT cost effective for a single leader of an ever growing republic. "Time" being an ever deminishing resource.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Does anyone feel that the New Romulan Republic will bring in a governing council to help prosper the growing new colony? If D'Tan moves in this direction, it would provide a sense of deniability if some projects take a turn for the worse.. he could come in and get things back on tract. Thereby strengthening his position and place in the Republican Historial Archives for generations to come. I just don't think that he would choose to remain the "go-to" guy for every little detail that comes across his desk. Micro-management.. is definitely NOT cost effective for a single leader of an ever growing republic. "Time" being an ever deminishing resource.


    There is a New Romulan Senate.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    protogoth wrote: »
    There is a New Romulan Senate.

    Since D'tan is Proconsul, very true. I can assume Obisiek is in the senate. Any clue as to who else?

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    feiqa wrote: »
    Since D'tan is Proconsul, very true. I can assume Obisiek is in the senate. Any clue as to who else?

    I seem to recall having been made "an honorary senator" at some point.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I do agree that the political situation of the New Romulan Republic needs some fleshing out. For example, D'Tan is the Proconsul, but is there a Praetor? If so, who is he/she? If not, then the office of Proconsul is apparently the highest political office in the New Romulan Republic. Clarification of these matters would be more than very nice; it would be helpful for character development (for those of us who enjoy RP, at least). I'm currently working on a discussion on my fleet website to explain what "Romulan" means, and what "New Romulan" means, in order to explain what the Tal'Diann is in the context of both "Romulanity" and "New Romulanity." The discussion involves quite a lot of lore and history, from both hard canon sources and extra-canonical sources (including especially the works of Diane Duane). It's not yet ready for public consumption, and I have written very little so far concerning the present situation under the New Romulan Republic (in part due to the dearth of information particularly related to the political situation, such as questions about the Senate, whether or not the office of Praetor exists and who holds the office if so, and related matters), but I'm getting close, chronologically, to 2409, and will either need official information, or have to make it up based on the information which is available. In this regard, I've been replaying the storyline on a new alt, to refresh my memory and catch tidbits I may have missed the first time through. I also have a copy of "The Path to 2409," which will naturally be a source for the discussion. But if Cryptic doesn't provide some additional information beyond what is available in "The Path to 2409" and the material in the storyline itself, I'll be faced with the necessity of fleshing out some of this on my own.

    Regardless of whether Cryptic steps up to the plate or leaves me at bat (so to speak), the discussion will, when finished, be linked on the "Pathal" section of the Tal'Diann website, and I'll inform the Romulan Gameplay forum when that time comes, for those who might like to read it.
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    In the mean time all Senate meetings take place in D'Tan's closet. Bring some Romulan ale, and mind that door. It is after all a closed cabinet session. :D

    ---
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    So while I am answering questions about why the Republic can field a flagship I have stumbled on a new question.

    New Romulus was selected as the new home as it was an unclaimed system. This was done, I assume, to show they were not simply rebels.

    After they have founded and are recognized as a legitimate government by two out of three powers, they are given claim to several systems, if not the sector block they are already in. Includes the Jouret system.

    So why have they not tried to recolonize Virinat or Crateris?

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    feiqa wrote: »
    So while I am answering questions about why the Republic can field a flagship I have stumbled on a new question.

    New Romulus was selected as the new home as it was an unclaimed system. This was done, I assume, to show they were not simply rebels.

    After they have founded and are recognized as a legitimate government by two out of three powers, they are given claim to several systems, if not the sector block they are already in. Includes the Jouret system.

    So why have they not tried to recolonize Virinat or Crateris?

    A suggestion was made some time back, but it didn't garner much attention and didn't seem to go very far:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=750821

    I find it annoying that the only way to visit Virinat now is to replay the mission "Memory Lane."
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