At the end of the day though you only lose one ensign power and maybe a trait stacked on it depending on how much youve invested into SRO/Pirate/Efficient stuff
I like the BOP layout, one minute im a magic spamming scilord, the next I am a cloaked dedicated healer, the next I am a torpedo spamming insane asylum
No other ship can do what the bop does, its literally three or four ships in one, and you only have to break combat for a moment to switch it up.
What people don't like to accept though... is the only reason the bop was given all uni slots is because at launch the klinks had like 3 ships... and NO science ships. (as it is they still only have the gorn not counting lockbox ships). So the bop was dual role... escort / weak science ship.
99% of the people that are going to fly a bop are going to fly it with pretty much one of the standard escort / varo setups... cause commander tac is pretty standard... after that there is a way to set a varo up in pretty much every concivable setup.
If it meant that we would have to see a New Bop... that had a commander Tac set in place, with varo level stats... I think everyone would be happy with that.
Of course if they are going to do that they could then take the time to crate a proper Klingon science ship while there at it.
Allow me to shed some light on the OP nature of the Bird of Prey. In terms of manuverability, and overall sneakyness the B'rlol is rediculous. So are the other Birds of Prey, unfortunately. This means that all of those pretty and very small ships can pack a major punch, then get away if they fail, and rinse/repeat. Lets discuss what I did in Ker'rat the other day for the sake of doing it.
I purchased a Mk XII Neutrino Deflector Array [Sen]x3 and 4 Mk XII Sensor Probes, purple of course. Then I took out a Noobula, and started seeing if I could play the funniest game of Where's Waldo ever. Turns out I actually could. With major Aux buffing, I had a Passive Detection of about 7k, and up to 10k if they ran no Aux power themselves. When I poped my Tachyon Grid that range goes out to about 10k average. The real fun comes when I used Sensor Scan... then I was seeing BOPs, Raptors, and anything else with a cloak at 17k+... This was hilarious, as I would then spam Gravity Wells on them and watch a now startled Klink run for his life. As the Feds he had been predatering were now all chasing him.
Ultimately, this ended in my ship having something close to a 20k Sphere of Loneliness. Since even when I did chance upon one of them at 16k or so, they already were watching me... and thus ran the moment I targeted them...
In short, the BOP is very effective at filling a certain role. But other exotic builds make unbelievable anti BOP ships. Combine a cloak finding Sci with a few angry Tacs, and you have a lot of bored, and enraged BOP pilots.
What people don't like to accept though... is the only reason the bop was given all uni slots is because at launch the klinks had like 3 ships... and NO science ships. (as it is they still only have the gorn not counting lockbox ships). So the bop was dual role... escort / weak science ship.
99% of the people that are going to fly a bop are going to fly it with pretty much one of the standard escort / varo setups... cause commander tac is pretty standard... after that there is a way to set a varo up in pretty much every concivable setup.
If it meant that we would have to see a New Bop... that had a commander Tac set in place, with varo level stats... I think everyone would be happy with that.
Of course if they are going to do that they could then take the time to crate a proper Klingon science ship while there at it.
Furthermore, we can't just simply push for buffing the hull/shield mods of BoPs. That would end up rendering Raptors and Destroyers obsolete, especially the Raptors. Either Cryptic has to be willing to completely eliminate those two lines and buff the BoPs to escort level (unlikely), or they have to buff the BoPs in some other way to compensate for the now-unfair losses in hull, shield mod, and rear weapon. I personally support an increase to the impulse modifier of all BoPs, from .20 to .22. Make them faster and harder to hit.
I have found that in my current obelisk build if I get assaulted by a bop there's a pretty good chance that they will simply be melted on the spot or they realize that they can't kill me so easily and run before they can be turned to slag.
Furthermore, we can't just simply push for buffing the hull/shield mods of BoPs. That would end up rendering Raptors and Destroyers obsolete, especially the Raptors. Either Cryptic has to be willing to completely eliminate those two lines and buff the BoPs to escort level (unlikely), or they have to buff the BoPs in some other way to compensate for the now-unfair losses in hull, shield mod, and rear weapon. I personally support an increase to the impulse modifier of all BoPs, from .20 to .22. Make them faster and harder to hit.
They already made all of those ships obsolete... its called a varo with raptor stats bop turn and an enhanced batte cloak... along with a Uni Lt Cmd.
Come on the Varo already replaces all of those ships it just involves rolling a new toon.
Ha, once I get back into the game, I'm rolling a raider for my orion girl, I just haven't decided yet which one to go with. What? You gonna stop me lol?
Not at all have fun... role playing.
If you want to fly the superior cloaking ship though role a Rom alien and paint her green.
I love my varos don't get me wrong... I would just love to fly my klink bops and not know I am trading a good amount of every single stat just to role play.
don't think of it that way, think of it as the difference between skill and gear. Rolling in a BoP requires an assload more skill than a T'Varo does to get the same result against the same opponent.
But you can keep going with that...a B'rel takes more skill than a Fleet B'rel. Not having any Rep takes more skill than having T5 across the board. Not being geared out the wahzoo takes more skill than being geared out the wahzoo. Heck, hop in a RA Qin... and it goes on and on.
And in the end, you have to step back and question whether you're actually getting the same result...not just the target looking at the respawn, but everything involved in getting that target looking at the respawn and what else might have been done.
Agreed on that antonio. Id love to fly my norgh again only knowing its gravely UP compared to a rom
For the OP, congrats on TRIBBLE unaware farmers that dont even know the word prebuffing and distribute shields. lolol.
See if you can pull off the same aganst a good premade consistently.
Just in case anyone missed the funny guy and his funny sayings.
But yup rommies are sadly overpowered. I'm not finding the downside to them. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough. A few go rounds with mine and I was like...well. This is dull.
Well, the Birds of Prey, like B'rel, T'var, Fleet Variants... X wing.. They all share tremendous gifts for stealth and surprise. This gives them the power to choose the time and place of the engagement. They are even fast enough to determine its duration. So what could balance a Bird of Prey in Ker'rat?
Answer 1, nerf them once again and force it to take 2 or more players to kill something along the lines of a Cruiser even if the Cruiser is alone.
Answer 2, weaken the effectiveness of the Cloak, thus removing the stealth approach, and only really keeping them from being detected at 10k+.
Answer 3, Buff the ability for stealth Detection, like the duration it lasts for Sci captain. Methods of doing this could be that Sensor Skill increases the duration, that way a build designed for finding cloaked ships that might not be so useful in actual combat, could in theory cycle its active detection so long as the power is in the right places. Say 125 Aux or better for a full 0 down time cycle. With a large amount of Mk XII sensors of course. The build to be balance in cloak detection needs to be a formula that requires dedication to the cause.
I prefer answer 3, I think that would introduce a new style of gameplay. In which of course a team could crowd around the stealth detection vessel and feel moderately safe. While the detection vessel in its own right will be provided security by the ships that need it to prevent surprise attacks. But I have been asking for a revamp of cloak detection for a long time. Hopefully it happens.
don't think of it that way, think of it as the difference between skill and gear. Rolling in a BoP requires an assload more skill than a T'Varo does to get the same result against the same opponent.
Again if I wanted to role play I guess I could load a tric onto a shuttle and fly a toon named sisko or something.
More challange isn't really a great argument for balance.
don't think of it that way, think of it as the difference between skill and gear. Rolling in a BoP requires an assload more skill than a T'Varo does to get the same result against the same opponent.
Yeah bops are really only ship that takes skill to fly them. Although most ppl out there want some hero ship that they can spam one button and win lol.
Just in case anyone missed the funny guy and his funny sayings.
But yup rommies are sadly overpowered. I'm not finding the downside to them. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough. A few go rounds with mine and I was like...well. This is dull.
Heh, depends on what you're trying to do with them. Could definitely see them being dull after the initial oh yeah wears off.
I guess I'm still doing the spreadsheet warrior thing with Willard...looking at the weapons he's currently got slotted on his T'varo (w/o any buffs, including cloak):
Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher
CrtD: +121%
CrtH: +23.8%
DMG(Base): +91.4% ... +10% from [Dmg]x2 on the torp itself
DMG: +10%
With the current proposed design goals resulting in the following changes down the road:
CrtD: +37.2%
CrtH: +2.5%
Torp DMG(Base): -0.6%
The "same" toon in a Fleet B'rel...well...
Would have to give up one of the weapons.
With BOFFs, would trade +25% CrtD, +10% CrtH, +10% AmbushDMG, +15% Defense, Faster Cloaking...for +7.5% DMG.
Course, that +7.5% DMG would really only be helping offset the loss of the +10% DMG from the 2pc T'varo...ahem, so it would only be -2.5% DMG instead of -10%.
The above would require the Captain being Naus as well as the 4 BOFFs. Just 4x BOFFs would mean a loss of 4% DMG (as well as everything else mentioned).
Oh yeah, the above's not taking into account the lower Hull/Shield Mod.
Hrmm, with losing the Ensign BOFF as well - well, would have to give up my TS1 as well - meaning less 100% To-Hit "exploitation"...
And yeah...hrmm...I can't say I'm not glad I didn't get around to picking up the B'rel for Geist. I knew almost from the start of the LoR beta that I was going to roll Willard to replace Geist as my Sci Cloaker.
edit: Do have to say though, I sometimes miss flying the Sci BoP w/ 4x Sci BOFFs...heh, but that was a different build for a different time in the game.
edit2: Oh yeah, Rom Cloaks appear to give ~55 more Stealth Value than KDF Cloaks. So would give that up as well. Sure, you lose some Subsystem Power (for my guys it tends to be -8 per rather than -10 per because of skills)...but also pick up the Singularity Abilities, as well as the Singularity Stabilizer allowing for that extra bounce when needed.
You better watch out thissler, don't get too comfortable or rely too much on your stealth for escape.
Oh you know I don't. But it doesn't even matter. I had a great video of myself being absolutely destroyed by a T'varo.
I watched him go into cloak well out of weapon range, saw him decloak as he launched his spread, I instantly hit evasive maneuvers and...
blew up moments later. No chance. So I went to the shipyard and built a B'rel around what I thought was being done. Yup. And this was quite a bit ago. Later on in talking about it with this guys fleetmate he said they were easily getting out to 20k visibility at the time.
Non Rommie cloakers have zero viability in a premade. How can they when for all purposes they are visible at max range? Unless I'm missing something. In a pug sure even if u have ONE snooper on an opforce pug that just makes it interesting.
if its the same fed rommy as I think it is they are using THE FED ONLY console that you can take of the zen store nebula ship, and with all the new op skills added to that console to a fed/rommy in a CLOAKED t'varo and it can see all cloaked ships upto 20km away but this MASSIVE one sided bull TRIBBLE will not get a fixed as its a bonus to the feds, this game is going down the pan, the devs are far too greedy to make this game great and make new contect for ALL factions
There's a few Fed-Roms doing it that I've seen...one was pretty damn dangerous with it when you could stack TS. One of them...I kept telling to speak to other about how to do it right. But yeah, you can use the TDF from the 1k Zen Nebula on a T'varo while cloaked...if Fed.
Comments
What people don't like to accept though... is the only reason the bop was given all uni slots is because at launch the klinks had like 3 ships... and NO science ships. (as it is they still only have the gorn not counting lockbox ships). So the bop was dual role... escort / weak science ship.
99% of the people that are going to fly a bop are going to fly it with pretty much one of the standard escort / varo setups... cause commander tac is pretty standard... after that there is a way to set a varo up in pretty much every concivable setup.
If it meant that we would have to see a New Bop... that had a commander Tac set in place, with varo level stats... I think everyone would be happy with that.
Of course if they are going to do that they could then take the time to crate a proper Klingon science ship while there at it.
They need to boost the Shield Mod on the Fleet Varanus...still can't find the justification for it being 0.11 lower than the Fleet DSSV...
I purchased a Mk XII Neutrino Deflector Array [Sen]x3 and 4 Mk XII Sensor Probes, purple of course. Then I took out a Noobula, and started seeing if I could play the funniest game of Where's Waldo ever. Turns out I actually could. With major Aux buffing, I had a Passive Detection of about 7k, and up to 10k if they ran no Aux power themselves. When I poped my Tachyon Grid that range goes out to about 10k average. The real fun comes when I used Sensor Scan... then I was seeing BOPs, Raptors, and anything else with a cloak at 17k+... This was hilarious, as I would then spam Gravity Wells on them and watch a now startled Klink run for his life. As the Feds he had been predatering were now all chasing him.
Ultimately, this ended in my ship having something close to a 20k Sphere of Loneliness. Since even when I did chance upon one of them at 16k or so, they already were watching me... and thus ran the moment I targeted them...
In short, the BOP is very effective at filling a certain role. But other exotic builds make unbelievable anti BOP ships. Combine a cloak finding Sci with a few angry Tacs, and you have a lot of bored, and enraged BOP pilots.
Furthermore, we can't just simply push for buffing the hull/shield mods of BoPs. That would end up rendering Raptors and Destroyers obsolete, especially the Raptors. Either Cryptic has to be willing to completely eliminate those two lines and buff the BoPs to escort level (unlikely), or they have to buff the BoPs in some other way to compensate for the now-unfair losses in hull, shield mod, and rear weapon. I personally support an increase to the impulse modifier of all BoPs, from .20 to .22. Make them faster and harder to hit.
They already made all of those ships obsolete... its called a varo with raptor stats bop turn and an enhanced batte cloak... along with a Uni Lt Cmd.
Come on the Varo already replaces all of those ships it just involves rolling a new toon.
Not at all have fun... role playing.
If you want to fly the superior cloaking ship though role a Rom alien and paint her green.
I love my varos don't get me wrong... I would just love to fly my klink bops and not know I am trading a good amount of every single stat just to role play.
For the OP, congrats on TRIBBLE unaware farmers that dont even know the word prebuffing and distribute shields. lolol.
See if you can pull off the same aganst a good premade consistently.
But you can keep going with that...a B'rel takes more skill than a Fleet B'rel. Not having any Rep takes more skill than having T5 across the board. Not being geared out the wahzoo takes more skill than being geared out the wahzoo. Heck, hop in a RA Qin... and it goes on and on.
And in the end, you have to step back and question whether you're actually getting the same result...not just the target looking at the respawn, but everything involved in getting that target looking at the respawn and what else might have been done.
If you'd said the regular Qin and not the MU Qin...maybe. :P
I actually like the MU Qin...kind of like the MU Vo'Quv, wish those layouts were available for the Fleet versions.
Just in case anyone missed the funny guy and his funny sayings.
But yup rommies are sadly overpowered. I'm not finding the downside to them. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough. A few go rounds with mine and I was like...well. This is dull.
Answer 1, nerf them once again and force it to take 2 or more players to kill something along the lines of a Cruiser even if the Cruiser is alone.
Answer 2, weaken the effectiveness of the Cloak, thus removing the stealth approach, and only really keeping them from being detected at 10k+.
Answer 3, Buff the ability for stealth Detection, like the duration it lasts for Sci captain. Methods of doing this could be that Sensor Skill increases the duration, that way a build designed for finding cloaked ships that might not be so useful in actual combat, could in theory cycle its active detection so long as the power is in the right places. Say 125 Aux or better for a full 0 down time cycle. With a large amount of Mk XII sensors of course. The build to be balance in cloak detection needs to be a formula that requires dedication to the cause.
I prefer answer 3, I think that would introduce a new style of gameplay. In which of course a team could crowd around the stealth detection vessel and feel moderately safe. While the detection vessel in its own right will be provided security by the ships that need it to prevent surprise attacks. But I have been asking for a revamp of cloak detection for a long time. Hopefully it happens.
Again if I wanted to role play I guess I could load a tric onto a shuttle and fly a toon named sisko or something.
More challange isn't really a great argument for balance.
Yeah bops are really only ship that takes skill to fly them. Although most ppl out there want some hero ship that they can spam one button and win lol.
Depends on how your Orion girl works the control stick....
R.I.P
Heh, depends on what you're trying to do with them. Could definitely see them being dull after the initial oh yeah wears off.
I guess I'm still doing the spreadsheet warrior thing with Willard...looking at the weapons he's currently got slotted on his T'varo (w/o any buffs, including cloak):
Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher
CrtD: +121%
CrtH: +23.8%
DMG(Base): +91.4% ... +10% from [Dmg]x2 on the torp itself
DMG: +10%
Gravimetric Photon Torpedo Launcher
CrtD: +121%
CrtH: +27.48%
DMG(Base): +104.3%
DMG: +10%
Elachi Subspace Torpedo Launcher
CrtD: +181%
CrtH: +21.48%
DMG(Base): +81.4%
DMG: +10%
Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo
CrtD: +121%
CrtH: +21.48%
DMG(Base): +0%
DMG: +10%
Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher
CrtD: +121%
CrtH: +23.48%
DMG(Base): +81.4%
DMG: +10%
Temporal Disruption Device
CrtD: +161%
CrtH: +21.48%
DMG(Base): +108.8%
DMG: +10%
Nukara Web Mine Launcher
CrtD: +121%
CrtH: +25.48%
DMG(Base): +0%
DMG: +10%
With the current proposed design goals resulting in the following changes down the road:
CrtD: +37.2%
CrtH: +2.5%
Torp DMG(Base): -0.6%
The "same" toon in a Fleet B'rel...well...
Would have to give up one of the weapons.
With BOFFs, would trade +25% CrtD, +10% CrtH, +10% AmbushDMG, +15% Defense, Faster Cloaking...for +7.5% DMG.
Course, that +7.5% DMG would really only be helping offset the loss of the +10% DMG from the 2pc T'varo...ahem, so it would only be -2.5% DMG instead of -10%.
The above would require the Captain being Naus as well as the 4 BOFFs. Just 4x BOFFs would mean a loss of 4% DMG (as well as everything else mentioned).
Oh yeah, the above's not taking into account the lower Hull/Shield Mod.
Hrmm, with losing the Ensign BOFF as well - well, would have to give up my TS1 as well - meaning less 100% To-Hit "exploitation"...
And yeah...hrmm...I can't say I'm not glad I didn't get around to picking up the B'rel for Geist. I knew almost from the start of the LoR beta that I was going to roll Willard to replace Geist as my Sci Cloaker.
edit: Do have to say though, I sometimes miss flying the Sci BoP w/ 4x Sci BOFFs...heh, but that was a different build for a different time in the game.
edit2: Oh yeah, Rom Cloaks appear to give ~55 more Stealth Value than KDF Cloaks. So would give that up as well. Sure, you lose some Subsystem Power (for my guys it tends to be -8 per rather than -10 per because of skills)...but also pick up the Singularity Abilities, as well as the Singularity Stabilizer allowing for that extra bounce when needed.
Time it takes for the Probe to get you into position to use Ramming Speed?
Oh you know I don't. But it doesn't even matter. I had a great video of myself being absolutely destroyed by a T'varo.
I watched him go into cloak well out of weapon range, saw him decloak as he launched his spread, I instantly hit evasive maneuvers and...
blew up moments later. No chance. So I went to the shipyard and built a B'rel around what I thought was being done. Yup. And this was quite a bit ago. Later on in talking about it with this guys fleetmate he said they were easily getting out to 20k visibility at the time.
Non Rommie cloakers have zero viability in a premade. How can they when for all purposes they are visible at max range? Unless I'm missing something. In a pug sure even if u have ONE snooper on an opforce pug that just makes it interesting.
Reverse TBR Decloak Alpha...fly into a group, grab them, explode at them!
There's a few Fed-Roms doing it that I've seen...one was pretty damn dangerous with it when you could stack TS. One of them...I kept telling to speak to other about how to do it right. But yeah, you can use the TDF from the 1k Zen Nebula on a T'varo while cloaked...if Fed.
The Nebula Retrofit TDG can only go on the Nebula, Nebula Retro, and Fleet Nebula.
The Nebula TDF on the other hand can go on any ship.