Please... we're all ship captains. This Admiral rank thing is silly. If you insist on making us all Admirals then I will hole myself up in a system with a starbase and claim that I command all of it, as befit my rank as a three-star Admiral. Then I'll sit in the Starbase commander's office and do paperwork. Occasionally I will attend meetings, and dictate policy to other ships.
Starfleet will be all "we need you to save us from the Voth" or whatever, but I'll be like "talk to my chief of staff, I'm just slammed with meetings today. Maybe tomorrow."
youre correct. i mean, why do you expect me to take orders from a lt or a cap if im a va? thats just senseless.
wanna be a va? run your own fleet, otherwise its like, va of what?
Nothing wrong with making various grades of Captain, but still leaving "Captain" as the most senior rank a player can achieve. It's a small thing, really, and I know it's mostly for obsessive compulsive RP'ers (or military-types who understand proper rank structures).
Us poor civilians understand proper rank structures too (as in: everyone understands that, with Admiral being the highest position in, say, ESD, that having everyone else be a Vice-Admiral is kinda silly).
And we all act like, and perform the duties of, Captain too. So, to paraphrase The Voyage Home, it is the judgment of this person that we all be reduced in rank to Captain. And that as a consequence of our new rank, we'll be given the duties for which we have demonstrated unswerving ability, the command of a starship.
Us poor civilians understand proper rank structures too (as in: everyone understands that, with Admiral being the highest position in, say, ESD, that having everyone else be a Vice-Admiral is kinda silly).
And we all act like, and perform the duties of, Captain too. So, to paraphrase The Voyage Home, it is the judgment of this person that we all be reduced in rank to Captain. And that as a consequence of our new rank, we'll be given the duties for which we have demonstrated unswerving ability, the command of a starship.
you forgot one part of that. What happened to Kirk right before he was given a command of a starship? Oh yeah we was found guilty of of disobeying a direct order and busted down to Captain.
Then as a thankyou for saving the Earth, he was then given command of a starship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I fail to see an issue with the ranking system,
A) Admirals can command star ships this is at it's core, a game.
C) 4 or 5 different grades of Captain is just as silly
I fail to see an issue with the ranking system,
A) Admirals can command star ships this is at it's core, a game.
C) 4 or 5 different grades of Captain is just as silly
It is an issue for some people for multiple reasons.
1) You captain a ship, since you don't get paid in the future a pay grade is irrelevant so Captain is a proper term.
2) It helps with immersion. Lieutenant to Captain you get orders from admirals. Then you make admiral and begin to be ordered around by a commander.
3) Being addressed as "Rear Admiral lower half" does not happen. It would be "Admiral" So again a break in immersion.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Just divorce rank from character level completely and make rank based on something like story progression rather than level.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
you forgot one part of that. What happened to Kirk right before he was given a command of a starship? Oh yeah we was found guilty of of disobeying a direct order and busted down to Captain.
Then as a thankyou for saving the Earth, he was then given command of a starship.
It was part of that same thank-you that the charges were reduced to just disobeying a direct order. I did a list once of the crimes committed by the crew of the Enterprise in The Search For Spock; it started with mutiny and incitement to commit mutiny, went on through sabotage and theft of Federation property, continued on past assaulting an officer and false imprisonment (the luckless lieutenant that Uhura locked in a closet), and ended up at destruction of Federation property (a charge mitigated by the fact that it was done to prevent classified information from falling into the hands of an enemy power).
The fact that charges were dropped on everyone but Kirk, and he wound up only getting hit with disobeying orders, could only be attributed to gratitude for saving Earth (and Starfleet Command). The starship command could be seen as more a matter of getting him the hell away from Earth before he corrupted any more officers...
Not much gets on my nerves in these forums but these things do.
While I see nothing wrong with the current ranking system, I also see nothing wrong or harmful in a conversation of this type. If it bothers you so much you do have the option to ignore the thread.
Back to one of the arguments on this topic. I've never seen a commander try to order my VA character to do anything but rather make suggestions. I feel that as is, higher ranking officers tell me what missions I will do in the storyline and by the time I'm at Level 50 I am picking and choosing the missions that I as an admiral am interested in doing. Feels appropriate to me.
I myself don't let the admiral ranking bother me. I am a RPer and in my bio sheet I have it clearly state that my character is Captain rank and I use the title as well so no harm done. If they would change the ranks, perhaps just make it lv 1-50 and have the rankings as titles only. The title of admiral would only be unlocked to those who are leaders of fleets.
Kirk was admiralty at one point and he is pretty much the example that people benchmark a starship commander
"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do *anything* that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
I hate these threads they're so annoying and most people fail to realize THE STORY RECOGNIZES ONLY ONE VICE ADMIRAL AND WHATNOT SO THERE ARENT MILLIONS OF ADMIRALS.
I'm sorry to break the news to your special snowflake, but the story doesn't recognize any vice admiral. As far as the story is concerned, you're a captain that all the NPCs boss around.
It was part of that same thank-you that the charges were reduced to just disobeying a direct order. I did a list once of the crimes committed by the crew of the Enterprise in The Search For Spock; it started with mutiny and incitement to commit mutiny, went on through sabotage and theft of Federation property, continued on past assaulting an officer and false imprisonment (the luckless lieutenant that Uhura locked in a closet), and ended up at destruction of Federation property (a charge mitigated by the fact that it was done to prevent classified information from falling into the hands of an enemy power).
The fact that charges were dropped on everyone but Kirk, and he wound up only getting hit with disobeying orders, could only be attributed to gratitude for saving Earth (and Starfleet Command). The starship command could be seen as more a matter of getting him the hell away from Earth before he corrupted any more officers...
No, it was actually correcting a mistake both on Starfleet's and Kirks fault. Starfleet for promoting Kirk and Kirk for actually taking the promotion.
Sorry Kirk's greatest gift to starfleet was commanding a starship. He did more for starfleet than most captains in history. it was a mistake to promote him.
Hell they did him a courtesy for demoting him and giving him the new Enterprise. Infact the reason the new constitution was named Enterprise A was in honor of Kirk doing the very thing you mentioned. Saving Earth. Cause that ship actually was slated to have another name.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Here is the thing that many people are forgetting?we are not Kirk?we are not Picard. Kirk and Picard may not have wanted to be an Admiral but that doesn't mean no one can be. My character is not being bossed around by a bunch of low-level characters?it's just those are the poor smucks Starfleet has used to pass the missions to me through.
But lets crunch some numbers:
There are 285 ships in the US Navy
US law caps the number of flag officers to 216.
So pretty much there is one admiral for every ship in the US Navy?give or take a few. And that is one country on one planet.
How many ships are Starfleet? With this influx of player ships there must be an influx of people who control them. If the US Navy has one admiral for every ship they have then it makes sense that there'd be so many VA in this game.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
There are 285 ships in the US Navy
US law caps the number of flag officers to 216.
So pretty much there is one admiral for every ship in the US Navy?give or take a few. And that is one country on one planet.
The Naval Vessel Register gives us 424 ships as of November 2013. 248 Commissioned, 92 Non-Commissioned, 33 Support, 51 Ready Reserve.
Although the number of ships is kind of irrelevant, since most Admirals have nothing to do with ships. They're in the Pentagon, on bases, academies, hospitals - not gallivanting around commanding ships.
Which is why I want a rank selector that only has certain titles available. Master Chef nickcastleton would be an appropriate title, but Moist nickcastleton is not.
But lets crunch some numbers:
There are 285 ships in the US Navy
US law caps the number of flag officers to 216.
So pretty much there is one admiral for every ship in the US Navy?give or take a few. And that is one country on one planet.
How many ships are Starfleet? With this influx of player ships there must be an influx of people who control them. If the US Navy has one admiral for every ship they have then it makes sense that there'd be so many VA in this game.
I think that number is just mostly coincidence
That law has been around for a long time, i think there were some changes to it in 96, 97 or 98 i forget which. But anyways, allowances for the total general/flag officers the service can have has been the same for a while. I googled and found that in 1996 the Navy had 204 flag officers, in 1989 they had 256. According to a different source i found, the Navy had 375 ships in 1996 and 592 in 1989. I think the number might be related to the officer-enlisted overall ratio in each service, but not ships. Also, just because the navy goes into wartime mode doesnt mean that the Admiral who in peacetime is ComPacSurFltLolAcronyms will in wartime have to command a destroyer. It actually goes the other way...the demand for higher positions is higher and if a position needs to be filled its more common for someone to get promoted up to it, instead of being demoted down to it.
STOs rank structure is just following classic video gaming rules. It slightly resembles Star Trek TV/movie rules, but its mostly gaming rules (unless maybe you count JJ ST). Gaming rules is like...you are the player and you start out as a buck private then you get promoted to sergeant then sergeant major...then to lieutenant, captain, then allll the way to General. Congratulations!!! you've beaten the game and have been promoted to five star General of first person shooters /salute. Now go back out there and keep on doing that grunt work that you do so well General sir. I dont know if its intentional, they dont know how it should have been done or they just dont care. It's like some air force person telling his relatives or friends that they are in the air force and the response is "ohh are you a pilot?"
Which is why I want a rank selector that only has certain titles available. Master Chef nickcastleton would be an appropriate title, but Moist nickcastleton is not.
The entire Titles system is schizophrenic. Sometimes they're actually titles like "The Dauntless Bob", "Detective Dave", or "Captain Jane". Then we have questionable things like "Moist Carl", "Annihilated Sue", or "Warped Lister", which are at least still adjectives. Then we have the ones like "Boothby's Favorite Jack", "Cheated Death Kirk", "Frenzied by the Fray Fred", or "This Far, No Further Steward".
The entire Titles system is schizophrenic. Sometimes they're actually titles like "The Dauntless Bob", "Detective Dave", or "Captain Jane". Then we have questionable things like "Moist Carl", "Annihilated Sue", or "Warped Lister", which are at least still adjectives. Then we have the ones like "Boothby's Favorite Jack", "Cheated Death Kirk", "Frenzied by the Fray Fred", or "This Far, No Further Steward".
:rolleyes:
It just seems like a copy of WoW's title system. Back in the day you mostly saw just PVP ranks in WoW. Knight-Champion Stonewbie or Grand Marshall Darkjeff...maybe a couple of non PVP ones too like Scarab Lord Nickcastleton. But now they have all sorts of titles. Server firsts, achievements, professions, whatever. And of course people were making up clever title-name combinations too like "Salty Snacks" or stuff like that. Main difference is that WoW has always been kinda silly.
They're in the Pentagon, on bases, academies, hospitals - not gallivanting around commanding ships.
not really?I was in the Navy for 11 years and was stationed on an air craft carrier for the first 5 years?every time we went on deployment we had an admiral with us. Did he command the ship?no but he was in charge.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
not really?I was in the Navy for 11 years and was stationed on an air craft carrier for the first 5 years?every time we went on deployment we had an admiral with us. Did he command the ship?no but he was in charge.
Yeah, and that's usually a 1 star incharge of the carrier strike group. But guess what he was incharge of a GROUP of ships, not just 1.
Cause carriers, or LHA/LHD which form expeditionary strike groups[replace carrier with a LHA/LHD] go out in groups which a flag officer commands.
What group and or squadron does the VA control? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Just a glorified captain still sitting in the captain's chair instead of a flag bridge a flag officer should be on.
So when we actually start acting like flag officers instead of glorified captains, then we can really start calling ourselves flag officers.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Which is why I want a rank selector that only has certain titles available. Master Chef nickcastleton would be an appropriate title, but Moist nickcastleton is not.
As long as we are only commanding a single ship, we are all only captains regardless of whether we're a lieutenant or an admiral. all we need is for any coms etc. to address us as captain.
To be honest I'm fine with rank not mattering where our missions are involved, ya some of our tasks are pretty mundane for a captain to be doing let alone an admiral but at the same time I don't think the game would be much fun if you were playing as a paper pusher.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
funny as kirk, archer, and janeway all became admirals
and all of them after they became admirals no longer commanded ships. Kirk had a special situation and he wasn't supposed to remain in command of the Enterprise during Wrath of Khan.
Infact had he not stolen the Enterprise he'd of become a paper pusher. Just like Archer and janeway did.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Comments
youre correct. i mean, why do you expect me to take orders from a lt or a cap if im a va? thats just senseless.
wanna be a va? run your own fleet, otherwise its like, va of what?
Us poor civilians understand proper rank structures too (as in: everyone understands that, with Admiral being the highest position in, say, ESD, that having everyone else be a Vice-Admiral is kinda silly).
And we all act like, and perform the duties of, Captain too. So, to paraphrase The Voyage Home, it is the judgment of this person that we all be reduced in rank to Captain. And that as a consequence of our new rank, we'll be given the duties for which we have demonstrated unswerving ability, the command of a starship.
you forgot one part of that. What happened to Kirk right before he was given a command of a starship? Oh yeah we was found guilty of of disobeying a direct order and busted down to Captain.
Then as a thankyou for saving the Earth, he was then given command of a starship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
A) Admirals can command star ships
C) 4 or 5 different grades of Captain is just as silly
It is an issue for some people for multiple reasons.
1) You captain a ship, since you don't get paid in the future a pay grade is irrelevant so Captain is a proper term.
2) It helps with immersion. Lieutenant to Captain you get orders from admirals. Then you make admiral and begin to be ordered around by a commander.
3) Being addressed as "Rear Admiral lower half" does not happen. It would be "Admiral" So again a break in immersion.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
This I can agree with
Ditto. . . . . .
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
This is just like people wanting th T5 Connie which also will NOT happen.
The fact that charges were dropped on everyone but Kirk, and he wound up only getting hit with disobeying orders, could only be attributed to gratitude for saving Earth (and Starfleet Command). The starship command could be seen as more a matter of getting him the hell away from Earth before he corrupted any more officers...
While I see nothing wrong with the current ranking system, I also see nothing wrong or harmful in a conversation of this type. If it bothers you so much you do have the option to ignore the thread.
Back to one of the arguments on this topic. I've never seen a commander try to order my VA character to do anything but rather make suggestions. I feel that as is, higher ranking officers tell me what missions I will do in the storyline and by the time I'm at Level 50 I am picking and choosing the missions that I as an admiral am interested in doing. Feels appropriate to me.
Handle: @drgmstr
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Come Check Out My PRIMUS Database Page!
"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do *anything* that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
"Greetings, Moist nickcastleton."
I'm sorry to break the news to your special snowflake, but the story doesn't recognize any vice admiral. As far as the story is concerned, you're a captain that all the NPCs boss around.
No, it was actually correcting a mistake both on Starfleet's and Kirks fault. Starfleet for promoting Kirk and Kirk for actually taking the promotion.
Sorry Kirk's greatest gift to starfleet was commanding a starship. He did more for starfleet than most captains in history. it was a mistake to promote him.
Hell they did him a courtesy for demoting him and giving him the new Enterprise. Infact the reason the new constitution was named Enterprise A was in honor of Kirk doing the very thing you mentioned. Saving Earth. Cause that ship actually was slated to have another name.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
But lets crunch some numbers:
There are 285 ships in the US Navy
US law caps the number of flag officers to 216.
So pretty much there is one admiral for every ship in the US Navy?give or take a few. And that is one country on one planet.
How many ships are Starfleet? With this influx of player ships there must be an influx of people who control them. If the US Navy has one admiral for every ship they have then it makes sense that there'd be so many VA in this game.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The Naval Vessel Register gives us 424 ships as of November 2013. 248 Commissioned, 92 Non-Commissioned, 33 Support, 51 Ready Reserve.
Although the number of ships is kind of irrelevant, since most Admirals have nothing to do with ships. They're in the Pentagon, on bases, academies, hospitals - not gallivanting around commanding ships.
Which is why I want a rank selector that only has certain titles available. Master Chef nickcastleton would be an appropriate title, but Moist nickcastleton is not.
I think that number is just mostly coincidence
That law has been around for a long time, i think there were some changes to it in 96, 97 or 98 i forget which. But anyways, allowances for the total general/flag officers the service can have has been the same for a while. I googled and found that in 1996 the Navy had 204 flag officers, in 1989 they had 256. According to a different source i found, the Navy had 375 ships in 1996 and 592 in 1989. I think the number might be related to the officer-enlisted overall ratio in each service, but not ships. Also, just because the navy goes into wartime mode doesnt mean that the Admiral who in peacetime is ComPacSurFltLolAcronyms will in wartime have to command a destroyer. It actually goes the other way...the demand for higher positions is higher and if a position needs to be filled its more common for someone to get promoted up to it, instead of being demoted down to it.
STOs rank structure is just following classic video gaming rules. It slightly resembles Star Trek TV/movie rules, but its mostly gaming rules (unless maybe you count JJ ST). Gaming rules is like...you are the player and you start out as a buck private then you get promoted to sergeant then sergeant major...then to lieutenant, captain, then allll the way to General. Congratulations!!! you've beaten the game and have been promoted to five star General of first person shooters /salute. Now go back out there and keep on doing that grunt work that you do so well General sir. I dont know if its intentional, they dont know how it should have been done or they just dont care. It's like some air force person telling his relatives or friends that they are in the air force and the response is "ohh are you a pilot?"
The entire Titles system is schizophrenic. Sometimes they're actually titles like "The Dauntless Bob", "Detective Dave", or "Captain Jane". Then we have questionable things like "Moist Carl", "Annihilated Sue", or "Warped Lister", which are at least still adjectives. Then we have the ones like "Boothby's Favorite Jack", "Cheated Death Kirk", "Frenzied by the Fray Fred", or "This Far, No Further Steward".
:rolleyes:
It just seems like a copy of WoW's title system. Back in the day you mostly saw just PVP ranks in WoW. Knight-Champion Stonewbie or Grand Marshall Darkjeff...maybe a couple of non PVP ones too like Scarab Lord Nickcastleton. But now they have all sorts of titles. Server firsts, achievements, professions, whatever. And of course people were making up clever title-name combinations too like "Salty Snacks" or stuff like that. Main difference is that WoW has always been kinda silly.
not really?I was in the Navy for 11 years and was stationed on an air craft carrier for the first 5 years?every time we went on deployment we had an admiral with us. Did he command the ship?no but he was in charge.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Yeah, and that's usually a 1 star incharge of the carrier strike group. But guess what he was incharge of a GROUP of ships, not just 1.
Cause carriers, or LHA/LHD which form expeditionary strike groups[replace carrier with a LHA/LHD] go out in groups which a flag officer commands.
What group and or squadron does the VA control? Oh yeah that's right NONE. Just a glorified captain still sitting in the captain's chair instead of a flag bridge a flag officer should be on.
So when we actually start acting like flag officers instead of glorified captains, then we can really start calling ourselves flag officers.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You're no fun at all.
To be honest I'm fine with rank not mattering where our missions are involved, ya some of our tasks are pretty mundane for a captain to be doing let alone an admiral but at the same time I don't think the game would be much fun if you were playing as a paper pusher.
funny as kirk, archer, and janeway all became admirals
and all of them after they became admirals no longer commanded ships. Kirk had a special situation and he wasn't supposed to remain in command of the Enterprise during Wrath of Khan.
Infact had he not stolen the Enterprise he'd of become a paper pusher. Just like Archer and janeway did.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1